Gabriel Johnson -- Missing 12/26/09

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Post by Weeziethm on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:19 pm

RT“@courtpio: The jury has reached a verdict in the State v. Elizabeth Johnson. The verdict will be read around 3pm.”

azfamily‏@azfamily

#BREAKING The jury has reached a verdict in the State v. Elizabeth Johnson. The verdict will be read around 3pm. http://az3.tv/S6vNvt

3 pm Arizona time.

Hoping for a just verdict...
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Post by KathyNY on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:35 pm

Weeziethm ~ Thank You

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Post by Julie on Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:24 pm

PHOENIX (CBS5) -
The jury has just reached a verdict in the kidnapping trial of Elizabeth Johnson.

The verdict is expected to be read at 3 p.m. [Watch live streaming video of the verdict]


Local Livestream

The video stream is a raw feed provided by CBS 5, and features live coverage of local breaking news events, major speeches and more. Please note that video may go black during commercial breaks.

(embed doesn't work)

http://www.kpho.com/category/224303/cbs-5-local-live-streaming

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Post by Weeziethm on Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:24 pm

KathyNY wrote:Weeziethm ~ Thank You

Your welcome Very Happy
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Post by Weeziethm on Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:28 pm

Guilty of unlawful imprisonment (which is a lesser included under the kidnapping charge), custodial interference, and conspiracy to commit custodial interference.

Arguing the aggravators now. Sentencing date has not been set AFAIK.

Where is Gabriel?
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Post by Freckles on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:01 pm

Judge was so lenient against the recommendations in the TS case I do not hold out hope for any resemblance of justice being served up in this court. (Maybe, he will give her credit for time served? Maybe, weekends in jail with time off so she can go to school or find a job---- working for TS!) This is a true miscarriage of justice for everyone but especially Gabriel and his father, his grandparents.
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Post by Alessandra_Deux on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:54 pm

Elizabeth Johnson verdict: Not guilty of kidnapping

Posted: Oct 18, 2012 4:23 PM CDT
Updated: Oct 18, 2012 6:54 PM CDT
By Julie Rose, FOX 10 News Web Producer

(VIDEO)

PHOENIX - Thursday at 3:45 p.m., a jury decided the fate of Elizabeth Johnson, who was charged with kidnapping, custodial interference and conspiracy to commit custodial interference.

The verdict: She was found not guilty of kidnapping, but guilty instead of unlawful imprisonment - domestic violence; guilty of custodial interference - domestic violence; and guilty of conspiracy to commit custodial interference - domestic violence.

The jury deliberated for about a day and a half. It appears they couldn't agree on the kidnapping charge, and instead convicted her of unlawful imprisonment, a lesser charge.

Defense attorney Marc Victor told FOX 10 Elizabeth Johnson is "thrilled." He says the state cannot retry Johnson on the kidnapping charge.

Read more:

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/19857610/2012/10/18/elizabeth-johnson-verdict-to-be-read-at-3-pm
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Post by Weeziethm on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:02 pm

Freckles wrote:Judge was so lenient against the recommendations in the TS case I do not hold out hope for any resemblance of justice being served up in this court. (Maybe, he will give her credit for time served? Maybe, weekends in jail with time off so she can go to school or find a job---- working for TS!) This is a true miscarriage of justice for everyone but especially Gabriel and his father, his grandparents.

I agree, Freckles. What is it going to take to put the true victims FIRST? I need to stay away from sharp objects when this Judge sentences EJ, because I am fearful of what you said....time served. Go forth and multiply.{horror}.

At the end of the day, Baby Gabriel remains "missing". And his father, grandfather and extended family are left to grieve and be consumed with questions that have no answers. EJ walks.

And our society should WEEP.


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Post by Alessandra_Deux on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:08 pm

Elizabeth Johnson found guilty in Baby Gabriel case




by Jacques Billeaud, Associated Press
Video report by Mike Watkiss
Posted on October 18, 2012 at 3:53 PM
Updated today at 5:40 PM

PHOENIX (AP) -- An Arizona woman whose infant son vanished nearly three years ago was convicted of unlawful imprisonment Thursday after a jury failed to reach a verdict on the most serious charge against her, kidnapping.

The Maricopa County jury deliberated for about a day and a half before returning the verdict against Elizabeth Johnson in the December 2009 disappearance of her then-8-month-old son, Gabriel.

The jury also found her guilty of custodial interference and conspiracy to commit custodial inference.

Read more:

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Elizabeth-Johnson-found-guilty-in-Baby-Gabriel-case-174846991.html
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Post by Guest on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:46 pm

Weeziethm wrote:Guilty of unlawful imprisonment (which is a lesser included under the kidnapping charge), custodial interference, and conspiracy to commit custodial interference.

Arguing the aggravators now. Sentencing date has not been set AFAIK.

Where is Gabriel?

I am outraged at the verdict. If a mother can't be held responsible for LOSING her child, or whatever bullchit excuse she comes up with, the child REMAINS missing and the Court's aren't punishing these self absorbed mother's, imo! Do you know what sentence she can possibly get?

You are so right, where is precious Gabriel?

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Post by Alessandra_Deux on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:52 pm

art tart wrote:
Weeziethm wrote:Guilty of unlawful imprisonment (which is a lesser included under the kidnapping charge), custodial interference, and conspiracy to commit custodial interference.

Arguing the aggravators now. Sentencing date has not been set AFAIK.

Where is Gabriel?

I am outraged at the verdict. If a mother can't be held responsible for LOSING her child, or whatever bullchit excuse she comes up with, the child REMAINS missing and the Court's aren't punishing these self absorbed mother's, imo! Do you know what sentence she can possibly get?

You are so right, where is precious Gabriel?

"Johnson will spend a minimal time in jail, or perhaps be released on probation because of time already served. A status conference regarding sentencing and release conditions was put on the calendar for 9:30 a.m. on November 1.

The sentencing date will be set at that time. In the meantime, Johnson will remain in custody."

Source: myfoxphoenix.com
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Post by Alessandra_Deux on Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:46 pm



ABC15 Video: Elizabeth Johnson verdict

Elizabeth Johnson's lawyer talks about the verdict.
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Post by Guest on Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:12 am

Alessandra_Deux shared-

"Johnson will spend a minimal time in jail, or perhaps be released on probation because of time already served. A status conference regarding sentencing and release conditions was put on the calendar for 9:30 a.m. on November 1.

The sentencing date will be set at that time. In the meantime, Johnson will remain in custody."

Source: myfoxphoenix.com

Alessandra - thanks for sharing the information although I am sickened at the possibility that Elizabeth could be free by Christmas and also free to have more children. OMG. Zinah had gotten 10 yrs., I guess I just thought Elizabeth would at least get 5.

The life of our most precious resource really isn't worth much in the eyes of the Justice System. I am forever disappointed at the injustice children receive and more importantly, the lack of outrage in the public.

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Post by Weeziethm on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:19 am

Amen, Art Tart...snipped your quote:

"The life of our most precious resource really isn't worth much in the eyes of the Justice System. I am forever disappointed at the injustice children receive and more importantly, the lack of outrage in the public."

Exactly. And the result is that we (collective we) are objectifying our littlest citizens by condoning silence...KC, Terri Horman, Irwin's, EJ, etc ad nauseum are not being held accountable to the responsibility they inherently hold as parents to keep their children safe and protected.

I haven't been this disgusted since 7-5-11.


Last edited by Weeziethm on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Post by Julie on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:27 am

Weeziethm wrote:Amen, Art Tart...snipped your quote:

"The life of our most precious resource really isn't worth much in the eyes of the Justice System. I am forever disappointed at the injustice children receive and more importantly, the lack of outrage in the public."

Exactly. And the result is that we (collective we) are objectifying our littlest citizens by condoning silence...KC, Terri Horman, Irwin's, EJ, etc ad nauseum are not being held accountable to the responsible they inherently hold as parents to keep their children safe and protected.

I haven't been this disgusted since 7-5-11.

I don't want to go too OT, but did you watch NG last night? 19 year old dad slammed 6 month old baby girl into the bed, killing her. He got 90 days. Disgusting! Add him to the above list of names.
http://www.realitychatter.com/t4181-teen-dad-kills-infant-gets-slap-on-wrist

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Post by Stolat on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:40 am

My big issue is this. Her statement to Logan "You made me do this" really haunts me and stays with me. It's a very basal statement. It's very very difficult to fake the reactionary emotions usually responsible for eliciting such a statement.

I went through substance treatment several years ago and participated in maintenance group therapy for several years after. When folks did some pretty heinous things relating to their addictions, when they first come clean about it they almost always - I mean without fail - cling to the notion that somebody else always drove them to their poor behavior. They are the victim. That's because they haven't become healthy enough to own their consequences. And they weren't faking any of that -- it's how they honestly felt.

What I'm getting at is this -- none of them *ever* "faked" any of the things they did in order to look at their loved ones during family sessions and say "you made me do this" -- they honestly believed that to be true --all while they most certainly were guilty of whatever crime or abuse or behavior behind that statement. When they first come clean -- they are still in a very vengeful and resentful place for their state of existence -- whatever bad that has happened to them was a direct result of someone else's pushing them over the edge.

So I truly believe Elizabeth's first statement about killing Gabriel because she said "you made me do this" -- she did something heinous and she offset her guilt in the form of redirected resentment toward the person whom she felt drove her to commit the crime, leaving her as victim. I don't think she faked anything. I don't think she faked the murder. I think her statement was a very primal, basal, very unrehersed reaction that betrays exactly what she was feeling at the time. She felt she was the victim -- and she wanted to offset her guilt for committing the crime by redirecting the blame to someone else.
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Post by Alessandra_Deux on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:45 am

Julie wrote:
Weeziethm wrote:Amen, Art Tart...snipped your quote:

"The life of our most precious resource really isn't worth much in the eyes of the Justice System. I am forever disappointed at the injustice children receive and more importantly, the lack of outrage in the public."

Exactly. And the result is that we (collective we) are objectifying our littlest citizens by condoning silence...KC, Terri Horman, Irwin's, EJ, etc ad nauseum are not being held accountable to the responsible they inherently hold as parents to keep their children safe and protected.

I haven't been this disgusted since 7-5-11.

I don't want to go too OT, but did you watch NG last night? 19 year old dad slammed 6 month old baby girl into the bed, killing her. He got 90 days. Disgusting! Add him to the above list of names.
http://www.realitychatter.com/t4181-teen-dad-kills-infant-gets-slap-on-wrist

By contrast, the mother in Texas who super glued her 2 years old daughter's hands to a wall and beat her over potty training problems was sentenced to 99 years, she will be eligible for parole in 30 years. Her sentence could have just been probation, instead the judge decided to impose a harsher sentence, the crime carries a penalty that is anywhere between probation and life imprisonment.
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Post by Weeziethm on Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:02 pm

Baby Gabriel case: Mom guilty on several counts, not kidnapping

Instead of facing the maximum sentence of 27 1/2 years, Johnson now faces up to 9 1/2 years, said Marc Victor, Johnson’s attorney.

Johnson faces as little as probation, which Victor said he would seek when Johnson is sentenced later
this year.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/20121016baby-gabriel-case-elizabeth-johnson-verdict-abrk.html?nclick_check=1
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Post by Julie on Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:18 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
Julie wrote:

I don't want to go too OT, but did you watch NG last night? 19 year old dad slammed 6 month old baby girl into the bed, killing her. He got 90 days. Disgusting! Add him to the above list of names.
http://www.realitychatter.com/t4181-teen-dad-kills-infant-gets-slap-on-wrist

By contrast, the mother in Texas who super glued her 2 years old daughter's hands to a wall and beat her over potty training problems was sentenced to 99 years, she will be eligible for parole in 30 years. Her sentence could have just been probation, instead the judge decided to impose a harsher sentence, the crime carries a penalty that is anywhere between probation and life imprisonment.

Great point, Alessandra, our System is so messed up!

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Post by Guest on Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:43 pm

Stolat shared:
(kindly snipped for space)

So I truly believe Elizabeth's first statement about killing Gabriel because she said "you made me do this" -- she did something heinous and she offset her guilt in the form of redirected resentment toward the person whom she felt drove her to commit the crime, leaving her as victim. I don't think she faked anything. I don't think she faked the murder. I think her statement was a very primal, basal, very unrehearsed reaction that betrays exactly what she was feeling at the time. She felt she was the victim -- and she wanted to offset her guilt for committing the crime by redirecting the blame to someone else.

Stolat - you make so many good points as do other's that have shared in the outrage we feel. imo, you are spot on in your assessment that something "heinous" has happened to Baby Gabriel at the hand's of Elizabeth and she does as you point out, see herself as a "victim."

It's not easy passing a child off as your own when they are not, especially in cases of high profile missing children. In the cases of Baby Gabriel or Kyron, time progression photos are everywhere, too many questions for anyone that could have the children. Soon there will be time progression photos of Baby Lisa and Ayla.

I am most fearful of the unstable mother's learning from those that have murdered or abused before them, KC has taught many, imo, that you really can get away w/murder, just lie your butt off, you just might walk as well.


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Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:14 pm

After verdict, future of 'Baby Gabriel' mom to be decided soon

Posted: Saturday, October 20, 2012 11:16 am

By Kimberly Cheng, ABC15

It’s been nearly three years since 8-month-old Gabriel Johnson disappeared and the verdict against his mother is in. A jury did not find her guilty of kidnapping. They couldn’t agree on that charge.

~Snipped~

As the verdict was read in court, Johnson turned to her defense team and was seen mouthing, “Oh my God. I’m shocked.”

“I think she was cautiously optimistic about the verdict,” Marc Victor, her attorney, said Friday. “I think she was very happy. We weren’t shocked. In terms of her release, I think it is going to be difficult for her. I mean, she’s going to be exiting the jail and entering a world that is quite different than the world she left. It’s going to take some time for her to adjust, no question.”

Victor said Johnson is now probation-eligible.

“She could get granted probation and could get released with time served,” he said.

Read more:

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/local/cop_shop/article_85b4f290-1a4e-11e2-ae15-001a4bcf887a.html
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Post by Freckles on Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:02 am

This just sickens me. Again and again and again. Such a miscarriage of justice.
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Post by Gia on Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:39 am

Freckles wrote:This just sickens me. Again and again and again. Such a miscarriage of justice.

Ditto Freckles barf

Just one thing though ... her attorney is basically saying that she is going to walk out of prison some time soon, but is that known for sure? I thought that she hadn't yet been sentenced and that the max sentence could be 9-years. Is it a foregone conclusion that this worthless POS will soon be free or are they being overly optiminstic?
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Post by Gia on Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:49 am

art tart wrote:
Stolat shared:
(kindly snipped for space)

So I truly believe Elizabeth's first statement about killing Gabriel because she said "you made me do this" -- she did something heinous and she offset her guilt in the form of redirected resentment toward the person whom she felt drove her to commit the crime, leaving her as victim. I don't think she faked anything. I don't think she faked the murder. I think her statement was a very primal, basal, very unrehearsed reaction that betrays exactly what she was feeling at the time. She felt she was the victim -- and she wanted to offset her guilt for committing the crime by redirecting the blame to someone else.

Stolat - you make so many good points as do other's that have shared in the outrage we feel. imo, you are spot on in your assessment that something "heinous" has happened to Baby Gabriel at the hand's of Elizabeth and she does as you point out, see herself as a "victim."

It's not easy passing a child off as your own when they are not, especially in cases of high profile missing children. In the cases of Baby Gabriel or Kyron, time progression photos are everywhere, too many questions for anyone that could have the children. Soon there will be time progression photos of Baby Lisa and Ayla.

I am most fearful of the unstable mother's learning from those that have murdered or abused before them, KC has taught many, imo, that you really can get away w/murder, just lie your butt off, you just might walk as well.


I also believe that she killed Gabriel. If one considers this ito probabilities ... then we need to consider that despite living in a dysfunctional society ... that if she was going to just give Gabriel away, the chances are slim that she would have luck on the first try. Put it this way, the first woman she planned to give baby Gabriel to, landed up in court, so what are the chances that the very next people that she chose automatically agreed and just walked away with her child, and that no one who knows them noticed that they suddenly out of the blue have a new addition to the family, and that the new addition looks exactly like the missing baby's photo being shown by the media. If I remember correctly she said that she gave Gabriel to someone at a park.

Nah ... sadly Baby Gabriel is dead and lets hope and pray that his body is found soon.

Also, I didn't follow this case that closely ... but why wasn't she charged for "giving her child away?" Surely its against the law for someone to just give their child to an absolute stranger?
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Post by Freckles on Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:12 pm

Gia wrote:
Freckles wrote:This just sickens me. Again and again and again. Such a miscarriage of justice.

Ditto Freckles barf

Just one thing though ... her attorney is basically saying that she is going to walk out of prison some time soon, but is that known for sure? I thought that she hadn't yet been sentenced and that the max sentence could be 9-years. Is it a foregone conclusion that this worthless POS will soon be free or are they being overly optiminstic?
I think we are speculating as to what the judge will sentence. After Tammi Smith, KC Anthony, etc., I am very discouraged in our justice system and I think others are, too. Too many very liberal judges, IMO, and they are screwed up with the sentencing. (Why sentence someone to several years for possession of marijuana for medical use, ie, off-set the nausea from cancer treatments, and then let child abusers take a hand slap? )

BTW, the Ft Hood case will be tried as "employee shooting at work place" and NOT listed as "terrorist" activity. In the case of the Berlin shooting of a bar where off-duty GIs frequented, each of the soldiers received a Purple Heart. No one at Ft. Hood will get the Purple heart. The difference? Well, a Purple Heart moves you to the front of the line for medical treatment and quality of care. IIRC, some of the 36 FT Hood victims, all ON DUTY, ended up with amputations. But to call this a "terrorist" shooting would be stating the gov't had lost control of a situation on one of our military bases--- and this IS a political year! Be dammed with the victim as long as it is politically correct. Sad

I am disgruntled.
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Post by Freckles on Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:15 pm

Gia-
I want to believe little Gabriel is still alive. I know logically he probably isn't but I still cling to the one thread of possibility. Too wrong the injustices done to this child, his father, and his family members who DO love him.

BTW, why have we not heard anything about EJ's family?
Where are they? Have they attended any of the court dates? Any comments?
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Post by Stolat on Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:24 am

Gia wrote:
art tart wrote:

Stolat - you make so many good points as do other's that have shared in the outrage we feel. imo, you are spot on in your assessment that something "heinous" has happened to Baby Gabriel at the hand's of Elizabeth and she does as you point out, see herself as a "victim."

It's not easy passing a child off as your own when they are not, especially in cases of high profile missing children. In the cases of Baby Gabriel or Kyron, time progression photos are everywhere, too many questions for anyone that could have the children. Soon there will be time progression photos of Baby Lisa and Ayla.

I am most fearful of the unstable mother's learning from those that have murdered or abused before them, KC has taught many, imo, that you really can get away w/murder, just lie your butt off, you just might walk as well.


I also believe that she killed Gabriel. If one considers this ito probabilities ... then we need to consider that despite living in a dysfunctional society ... that if she was going to just give Gabriel away, the chances are slim that she would have luck on the first try. Put it this way, the first woman she planned to give baby Gabriel to, landed up in court, so what are the chances that the very next people that she chose automatically agreed and just walked away with her child, and that no one who knows them noticed that they suddenly out of the blue have a new addition to the family, and that the new addition looks exactly like the missing baby's photo being shown by the media. If I remember correctly she said that she gave Gabriel to someone at a park.

Nah ... sadly Baby Gabriel is dead and lets hope and pray that his body is found soon.

Also, I didn't follow this case that closely ... but why wasn't she charged for "giving her child away?" Surely its against the law for someone to just give their child to an absolute stranger?

I can't remember the exact charge -- but I think they had to be *extremely* careful what they charged with as it relates to the assumption of a live Gabriel versus a dead Gabriel. If they charged her with giving the child away, then they cannot presume she murdered her baby - in that sense, they almost exonerate her of that suspicion. And if at a later time they find Gabriel's body -- they suredly can't go back and charge her of murder because they already stated their convictions that she in fact did not murder the baby and that by way of their own assumptions, the dead baby Gabriel would then have had to happen at the hands of someone other than Elizabeth. Not impossible to change tack, but certainly not a winning proposition.

Gia - you make a great point about the negative probability of her successfully finding a willing couple the very first time she ventures off. And you're right -- we see what happened with the REAL person Elizabeth tried to hand the baby off to -- the only REAL person we know of screwed things up badly.

The perfect storm that would have to have occurred would be:

1) a couple in the park -- I mean come on.... the first hurdle is simply that. Not that many *couples* in the park. Friends, team mates, etc. Sure people go walking in the park sometimes, but I would put the majority of the volume to be more heavily weighted on friends, singles, and athletic groups.

2) a *couple* in the park who just so happen to be of the age that WANTS a toddler child....an ILLEGALLY ADOPTED toddler child...one with no medical history, no background

3) a *couple* who is loving enough to be in the park together and loving enough to welcome a child into their life --- but SINISTER enough to willingly take an illegally adopted baby and never once have a change of heart -- even after seing years of national news coverage -- and seeing, as proof, photos of the VERY WOMAN who handed them the baby. AND see Logan's plea for his son and not have one ounce of sympathy for the rightful father.

5) a couple who lives in a remote place such that the introduction of a new TODDLER baby in the midst of all the news media attention would not raise the eyebrows of at least neighbors, family, friends, coworkers, etc. Especially since the child was a toddler, not an infant --and would have appeared very unannounced.

6) a *couple* who is STILL together after all this dilemma -- where neither of them has left the relationship and hasn't broken down and told SOMEBODY what the other one "made them do"

and lastly --

5) a couple who Elizabeth didn't roll over on and rat out to the police if she really had given the child away so that she could get out of jail or receive lesser charges. Remember -- she kept her lips zipped pretty much the whole time she was in jail. Anyone who knew that the ONLY thing they did wrong was make an immature decision to hand the child over would have been singing like a canary by now to get out of jail.

If such a couple really did exist, she wouldn't have met them randomly -- the odds are far too improbable for that to happen (as described above)....so if such a couple *did* exist, she more than likely would have had some other contact information on them as part of the communication necessary to arrange a meeting, etc. She would have had a traceable email addy or phone number or text messages. NONE of that exists -- which very highly points to the fact that there simply IS NO COUPLE who took Gabriel. Gabriel is dead, Elizabeth strangled him as she said she did and she put his body in the trash somewhere -and she did feel that Logan made her do this.
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Post by Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:35 am

In the case of Kyron even if his remains are found, it is debatable as to whether Terri would be charged, criminal legal analyst say something with the remains would need to link TH to the crime as the timeline is not exact and the very last person to see Kyron is debatable, Terri or his friend. Kaine/Desiree believe TH had a little help from her friends, at least one or more.

That is the exception, imo, cases such as Isabella's, Baby Lisa's, and Alya's, all had a dog "hit" at the home, the children were reportedly missing from the home although the parent's or parent were there. imo, IF EVER remains of any of these 3 children were found, we might see charges. Sadly, remains of children so small it seems unlikely they would be found as they, like Caylee's remains, could have been disbursed over a large area if dumped or, they could be buried as I suspect Kyron & Susan Powell are making the recovery almost impossible UNLESS someone talked. In little Gabriel's case, imo, Elizabeth has been crazy like a fox, she'll never tell.

Stolat is right in stating: "Elizabeth strangled Gabriel as she said she did and she put his body in the trash somewhere - as she did feel Logan made her do it." If little Gabriel's remains are ever found, Elizabeth could be charged in his death as it wouldn't be "double jeopardy" but the finding is not likely imo.

If Elizabeth walks, will she blend into society easier than KC & the public leave her alone? Sadly, Little Gabriel's case wasn't as high profile and she might pull that off too. imo, she'll have more children, that scares the hell out of me.

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Post by Gia on Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:22 pm

Stolat, you've made some excellent points and thank you for the clarity with regards the charges. Additionally, and as you've already pointed out .... there were no emails, cell calls, etc. ... so one would also have to assume that she struck it lucky with the first couple she approached to take Baby Gabriel off her hands.

I'm just trying to picture the scene of Elizabeth going from stranger to stranger in a park asking if they want her baby and everyone politely saying "no" until she found a willing couple Gabriel Johnson -- Missing 12/26/09 - Page 18 858297

Art, that is the worst of it. She will just blend back into society and breed again. It's scary!
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Post by Stolat on Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:08 pm

art tart wrote:
(respectfully snipped)
If Elizabeth walks, will she blend into society easier than KC & the public leave her alone? Sadly, Little Gabriel's case wasn't as high profile and she might pull that off too. imo, she'll have more children, that scares the hell out of me.

Agreed. She seems to be less of an attention wh*re as Casey was. I think what made Casey such the villain (among the obvious) was her vagrant arrogance. People couldn't stand to see her flaunting herself in all those party photos. Elizabeth (based on photos as such) appeared to be less sure of herself, more of the clingy type who was a bit more of a homebody -- I'm sure she partied, no doubt. But her motive seems to be more domestic dispute related whereas Casey's seemed to be more about being able to go out and party and continue to be the center of her own universe. Her ability to lay low will help her blend far faster.

I also think that Elizabeth is somehow *way* smarter than Casey will ever be. It took an extreme amount of tenacity to keep her mouth shut all these 3 yrs. It's almost like she somehow knew that if she kept her mouth shut and just stuck to the program, she was guaranteed a ticket out of there. All it would cost her was a bit of time. Casey on the other hand was completely a wild loose canon who *almost* got nailed for murder. Elizabeth will likely never be charged with murder, even if a body is found. She played it strictly by the book and hasn't faltered in the least. She was patient and laid low like a fox. The *only* thing that might trip her up is if she ever goes back and visits the scene of her disposal -- and I'm sure that years from now some detective will be watching for exactly that to happen. But I highly doubt she'll do it. If she laid low all this time, she's smart enough to know that the EZ-Pass to murder is to never go back and never talk.

It's very sad, and scary, that she'll likely breed again in yet another attempt to land a man. I mean why else do these women/girls give birth to these babies they don't want? Surely they can't be against abortion if they're willing to kill their own children (??) So the motivation has to be that in their very warped heads they somehow think that ties are formed with the sperm donors of their babies. When all we've ever learned is that nothing is farther from the truth. I guess for these women of low self-esteem (like Bianca Jones's mom) they figure that *any* ties to the father -- even if it is a bad relationship -- is better than no ties at all. Which really is a sick existence.
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Post by emberl on Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:28 pm

Freckles wrote:Gia-
I want to believe little Gabriel is still alive. I know logically he probably isn't but I still cling to the one thread of possibility. Too wrong the injustices done to this child, his father, and his family members who DO love him.

BTW, why have we not heard anything about EJ's family?
Where are they? Have they attended any of the court dates? Any comments?



She grew up with a drug-addicted father and an alcoholic mother.

She has never said were her parents are, or if they're still alive. They have not attended trial, only Gabriel's grandfather and father.

I'm not sure what happened to Gabriel, Elizabeth gave him to a complete stranger before, named Tammi Smith.

This woman was going around asking strangers if she could adopt their baby's, unborn baby's included.

Who's to say that Tammi did not arrange for the couple to show up at the park were Elizabeth was with Gabriel. I'm sure there's a lot more to the story between Tammi and Elizabeth. Who knows maybe Tammi is running some underground adoption agency. I don't know, maybe Gabriel was sold, and Tammi got some money.

I tell you that lady is nuts, she wants to run a refuge for unmarried women who are pregnant, what's her plan? What does she plan to do with all these born baby's?

I saw a website not too long ago were Tammi was advertising for unmarried pregnant women. Maybe she shut it down because she's on probation for the next 3 years.

Without Tammi Smith in the picture none of this would have ever happened, and it's a crying shame the nut only spend 1 month in jail.

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Post by Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:09 pm

emberl wrote:
Freckles wrote:Gia-
I want to believe little Gabriel is still alive. I know logically he probably isn't but I still cling to the one thread of possibility. Too wrong the injustices done to this child, his father, and his family members who DO love him.

BTW, why have we not heard anything about EJ's family?
Where are they? Have they attended any of the court dates? Any comments?

She grew up with a drug-addicted father and an alcoholic mother.

She has never said were her parents are, or if they're still alive. They have not attended trial, only Gabriel's grandfather and father.

I'm not sure what happened to Gabriel, Elizabeth gave him to a complete stranger before, named Tammi Smith.

This woman was going around asking strangers if she could adopt their baby's, unborn baby's included.

Who's to say that Tammi did not arrange for the couple to show up at the park were Elizabeth was with Gabriel. I'm sure there's a lot more to the story between Tammi and Elizabeth. Who knows maybe Tammi is running some underground adoption agency. I don't know, maybe Gabriel was sold, and Tammi got some money.

I tell you that lady is nuts, she wants to run a refuge for unmarried women who are pregnant, what's her plan? What does she plan to do with all these born baby's?

I saw a website not too long ago were Tammi was advertising for unmarried pregnant women. Maybe she shut it down because she's on probation for the next 3 years.

Without Tammi Smith in the picture none of this would have ever happened, and it's a crying shame the nut only spend 1 month in jail.

embrel - you hit the nail on the head, if NOT for TS none of this probably would have happened. TS imo, is a liar, a con artist, pretentious, a user, a self absorbed POS. I couldn't stand that woman, I LMAO on one of the calls TS made to Elizabeth when she was in jail, TS was trying to get her to admit she did something to Gabriel and Elizabeth jumped on TS, she didn't take her bull chit for a minute. Perhaps Elizabeth might have been manipulated by TS at the beginning, but it appeared Elizabeth was onto TS's con. imo, TS should have gotten a couple of years, she is clearly a menace to society, I wonder what her bio children think of her wanting someone else's children when she didn't even raise them?

Elizabeth no doubt had family of origin problems but it is no excuse imo, she failed Gabriel, sadly we may never know what happened to him. I bet Logan is about to lose his mind, this seems like a dead end as far as finding out where Gabriel has been dumped or buried, although Logan thinks Gabriel is still alive.

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Post by Freckles on Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:58 pm

emberl wrote: clipped and BBM:


She grew up with a drug-addicted father and an alcoholic mother.

She has never said were her parents are, or if they're still alive. They have not attended trial, only Gabriel's grandfather and father.

I'm not sure what happened to Gabriel, Elizabeth gave him to a complete stranger before, named Tammi Smith.

This woman was going around asking strangers if she could adopt their baby's, unborn baby's included.

Who's to say that Tammi did not arrange for the couple to show up at the park were Elizabeth was with Gabriel. I'm sure there's a lot more to the story between Tammi and Elizabeth. Who knows maybe Tammi is running some underground adoption agency. I don't know, maybe Gabriel was sold, and Tammi got some money.

I tell you that lady is nuts, she wants to run a refuge for unmarried women who are pregnant, what's her plan? What does she plan to do with all these born baby's?

I saw a website not too long ago were Tammi was advertising for unmarried pregnant women. Maybe she shut it down because she's on probation for the next 3 years.

Without Tammi Smith in the picture none of this would have ever happened, and it's a crying shame the nut only spend 1 month in jail.
Early on, TS stated she had talked with others to set up "adoption" out of AZ state and had even made arrangements for EJ to stay with these people. So IF there was an adoption (and I only wish the child was alive and in a stable home, which I doubt) it would have gone through TS. BTW, in my years of raising my own brood and talking with friends raising their own children, NONE of us ever were approached by anyone in re to giving up our child.

TS is sick. What kind of person takes advantage of other women by trying to "adopt" their children? Yet, TS does this REPEATEDLY. So much so, I had to wonder if she was selling the children as little sex slaves. Something is wrong with TS and her other-half, JS.
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Post by Stolat on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:10 am

TS is a POS - but I think everyone needs to remember --- digital footprints. It's easy to suggest TS set up some couple in the park for EJ to meet -- but where's the digital trail of such communication?? The emails? The phone recrords? Text records? The IP hits to craigslist or any other community personals site?? There is none. Not with EJ and not with TS -- and that's my point. There is NO EVIDENCE that * anyone * was ever contacted about a rendezvuos in the park. No evidence exists that suggests another person was ever contacted to take Gabriel - which only leaves you with the most likely and obvious conclusion. As sad as it is.
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Post by emberl on Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 pm

Stolat, I'm not saying that TS did arrange it.

However, just because there's no digital trial, does not mean they were in contact with each other through other means.

There's such a thing as a "buy and toss" phone, no records what so ever.

What about the fact that TS dropped Gabriel off the morning Elizabeth left town?

That's not a coincident.

I know there's no evidence that anyone was ever contacted about a rendezvous,.

We'll never know the answers.

I would think if anyone "adopted" Gabriel they would never ever say anything to the police, because if they would come forward they would be in big $*it.

I just don't trust TS, she's capable of unimaginable acts, and it's been proven that she does just that.

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Post by Stolat on Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:19 am

emberl wrote:Stolat, I'm not saying that TS did arrange it.

However, just because there's no digital trial, does not mean they were in contact with each other through other means.

There's such a thing as a "buy and toss" phone, no records what so ever.

What about the fact that TS dropped Gabriel off the morning Elizabeth left town?

That's not a coincident.

I know there's no evidence that anyone was ever contacted about a rendezvous,.

We'll never know the answers.

I would think if anyone "adopted" Gabriel they would never ever say anything to the police, because if they would come forward they would be in big $*it.

I just don't trust TS, she's capable of unimaginable acts, and it's been proven that she does just that.

I don't think there was ever any question about why Elizabeth got Gabriel back from TS when she did. That was not coincidence and that also likely was not to facilitate some pickup at a park in Texas for which there is no communication record for. My opinion is that once Elizabeth (who I believe is one very smart cookie) realized that TS couldn't help her and that Logan was going to shut that whole business down -- as was obviously happening, she got enraged and impatient and escalated her resentment and frustration and took care of things her own way. She didn't have much time to waste because Logan at that point was on to her and her hatred and rage demnanded she punish him before he could close in on her and remove the only leverage over him that she had.

Even toss phones still have to ping a tower -- and every tower has a list of all phones that pinged it, when, and for specified date ranges. All you'd have to do is to look for phings that abruptly *stopped* pinging altogether at the date Gabriel was taken. That would be a no-brainer. And I belive I read somewhere that search proved fruitless.

TS is capable of heinous things -- but Elizabeth is WAY smarter than TS, IMO.
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Post by Weeziethm on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:20 am

Missing Arizona baby's mom Elizabeth Johnson seeks release from jail

Johnson faces a sentencing range of two to nine years.

IIRC, I believe sentencing is Nov 6...my fear is "time served" by Judge as he only gave TS 30 days + 3 yr probation. Ugh.

Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/missing-arizona-babys-mom-elizabeth-johnson-seeks-release-from-jail#ixzz2AJvPSJAC
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Post by Guest on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:21 pm

Elizabeth Johnson has been in jail for nearly three years. . The jury chose not to convict her of the most serious charge -- kidnapping -- opting instead for the lesser charge of unlawful imprisonment
.
Johnson is facing between two and nine years behind bars, but her lawyer says he will fight for probation.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Baby-Gabriels-mom-wants-out-of-jail-175788741.html

I assume Elizabeth would serve her probation there if that's what she is given and not able to leave the State like in KC's probation. I wonder where she would stay or where she would work? I guess she would continue to rely on the kindness of stranger's like TS.

spineless Judge + a jury letting her off on the kidnapping charge = Elizabeth probably going free

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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:46 pm

will Elizabeth walk? Her life threatened! (that's too bad!)

The mother of Baby Gabriel, Elizabeth Johnson, could walk out of jail on Thursday if a judge agrees to modify her release conditions.

Johnson is scheduled to be in court at 9:30 a.m. and is asking she be released on her own recognizance.
ABC15 has learned, if she is released, Johnson’s attorney is worried about Johnson’s safety because people have made threats online to hurt or kill her.


Read more:

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/Mother-of-Baby-Gabriel-Elizabeth-Johnson-could-be-released-from-jail-Thursday#ixzz2AvnJEX29

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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:47 pm

double post sorry! I hate it when that happens.







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Post by Alessandra_Deux on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:42 am

Judge to consider release of jailed Elizabeth Johnson

Posted: Nov 01, 2012 8:46 AM CDT
Updated: Nov 01, 2012 9:03 AM CDT
By Steve Stout

PHOENIX (CBS5) - A Superior Court judge could determine Thursday morning whether Elizabeth Johnson will be released from jail while she awaits sentencing on charges involving the disappearance of her son, Gabriel Johnson, nearly three years ago.

Judge Joseph Kreamer was originally scheduled to set the sentencing date for Johnson at 9:30 a.m. Thursday, but her attorney Marc Victor filed paperwork last week requesting her release because he claims she is not a danger to the community.

Read more:

http://www.kpho.com/story/19974188/judge-to-consider-release-of-jailed-elizabeth-johnson
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Post by Alessandra_Deux on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:52 am

Mother of 'Baby Gabriel' Elizabeth Johnson could be released from jail

~Snipped~

Victor said Johnson is hopeful she’ll be released.

“She plans to do her best to get past this, to do good things in the world and to go as far as she can to sort of explain what happened in this case. There are lot of things for her to say that I think if people understood they would have a little bit different opinion of her,” said Victor.

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/Mother-of-Baby-Gabriel-Elizabeth-Johnson-could-be-released-from-jail-Thursday
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Post by Weeziethm on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:18 am

Seems like we've heard this same nonsense before...deja vu all over again....blech

She's had since December 2009 to "sort of explain" and she hasn't. And she won't.

Hoping for the maximum, but not holding out much hope for this Judge to do the right thing.

EJ - where is Gabriel?


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Post by Freckles on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:49 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Mother of 'Baby Gabriel' Elizabeth Johnson could be released from jail

~Snipped~

Victor said Johnson is hopeful she’ll be released.

“She plans to do her best to get past this, to do good things in the world and to go as far as she can to sort of explain what happened in this case. There are lot of things for her to say that I think if people understood they would have a little bit different opinion of her,” said Victor.

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/Mother-of-Baby-Gabriel-Elizabeth-Johnson-could-be-released-from-jail-Thursday
She has had plenty of time to talk but it weems he wasn't interested. She was not interested in explaining the assorted comments she made to the baby's father, Tammi, court officials, LE, etc.. Bunch of BS. Now the attention she once garnered is lagging, we are all supposed to run back to hear what she has to say? Fear it is just another Cayce case. I call BS.

Some has speculated baby Gabriel was drugged in the last known/publicised pics.
Perhaps she did drug the baby. Dunno. But it is time for her to go bye-bye!
I hope it is to the big house. She has yet to show ANY caring for her child. Any remorse for what she did to him, the child's father and the grandfather. She has yet to show any remorse to the courts.
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Post by Weeziethm on Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:31 pm

Judge: Baby Gabriel's mom will stay in jail .

Baby Gabriel's mother was in court Thursday morning, hoping that she would be released from jail until her sentencing.

Judge Joseph Kreamer said that wasn't going to happen, explaining that the application of Rule 7.2c of Arizona's Rules of Criminal Procedures renders Elizabeth Johnson "non-bondable."

"I want to make it very clear to you and to Miss Johnson I haven't made the determination yet," Kreamer continued. "I understand, based on my knowledge of the case, that there could be substantial mitigation presented. I have a duty and will weigh that. ... But as we stand right now under 7.2c, under that standard, she's non-bondable from my perspective."

Kreamer -- who handled the sentencing of Tammi Smith, the woman who wanted to adopt Gabriel, in July -- set Johnson's sentencing hearing for Dec. 7.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/Watch-LIVE-Elizabeth-Johnson-court-176803701.html
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Post by Stolat on Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:58 pm

Freckles wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:Mother of 'Baby Gabriel' Elizabeth Johnson could be released from jail

~Snipped~

Victor said Johnson is hopeful she’ll be released.

“She plans to do her best to get past this, to do good things in the world and to go as far as she can to sort of explain what happened in this case. There are lot of things for her to say that I think if people understood they would have a little bit different opinion of her,” said Victor.

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/Mother-of-Baby-Gabriel-Elizabeth-Johnson-could-be-released-from-jail-Thursday
She has had plenty of time to talk but it weems he wasn't interested. She was not interested in explaining the assorted comments she made to the baby's father, Tammi, court officials, LE, etc.. Bunch of BS. Now the attention she once garnered is lagging, we are all supposed to run back to hear what she has to say? Fear it is just another Cayce case. I call BS.

Some has speculated baby Gabriel was drugged in the last known/publicised pics.
Perhaps she did drug the baby. Dunno. But it is time for her to go bye-bye!
I hope it is to the big house. She has yet to show ANY caring for her child. Any remorse for what she did to him, the child's father and the grandfather. She has yet to show any remorse to the courts.

I completely equate "sort of explain" to be synonymous with BOOK DEAL/MOVIE RIGHTS. I truly hope she didn't keep her mouth shut just so she could up the value of her "exclusive interview" with Dateline and subsequent licensing fees.

I agree -- she had 3 yrs to explain things. No one's interested as long as she refuses to bring Gabriel some justice.
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Post by Guest on Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:08 pm

Weeziethm wrote:Judge: Baby Gabriel's mom will stay in jail .

Baby Gabriel's mother was in court Thursday morning, hoping that she would be released from jail until her sentencing.

Judge Joseph Kreamer said that wasn't going to happen, explaining that the application of Rule 7.2c of Arizona's Rules of Criminal Procedures renders Elizabeth Johnson "non-bondable."

"I want to make it very clear to you and to Miss Johnson I haven't made the determination yet," Kreamer continued. "I understand, based on my knowledge of the case, that there could be substantial mitigation presented. I have a duty and will weigh that. ... But as we stand right now under 7.2c, under that standard, she's non-bondable from my perspective."

Kreamer -- who handled the sentencing of Tammi Smith, the woman who wanted to adopt Gabriel, in July -- set Johnson's sentencing hearing for Dec. 7.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/Watch-LIVE-Elizabeth-Johnson-court-176803701.html

At least she didn't get out and at least the Judge said he could give her "more time to serve" but the problem is: where is baby Gabriel? If you don't pay your damn taxes, the IRS might seize your home, but if you dispose of your child and come up with some kind of bull chit story, you might never pay for your crime because children have less rights than the freaking IRS. The system might lock you up for a few years at taxpayer's expense, no one is even going to look for the baby except in this case, maybe Logan. This case makes me boiling mad.

Are more sociopaths learning how to screw the legal system by watching Zinah, KC, or EJ? I can't believe a baby is probably murdered and NO ONE is looking for him! EJ thinks she should be free to procreate and terrorize more children. Baby Gabriel, imo, is another child that is never going to be recovered.

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Gabriel Johnson -- Missing 12/26/09 - Page 18 Empty Re: Gabriel Johnson -- Missing 12/26/09

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:02 pm

Elizabeth Johnson remains in jail; longer sentence possible

Posted: Nov 01, 2012 8:46 AM CDT
Updated: Nov 01, 2012 6:54 PM CDT
By Steve Stout

(VIDEO)

PHOENIX (CBS5) - A Superior Court judge said the mother of a missing 8-month-old boy will remain in jail until her sentencing Dec. 7 and could face more jail time than the nearly three years she has already been in custody.

Judge Joseph Kreamer said during a status hearing Thursday morning that Elizabeth Johnson's three felony convictions on Oct. 18 make her non-bondable.

~Snipped~

Kreamer said Johnson's case "could be the worst case of custodial interference in the world" and that it was likely she could face more jail time. However, Kreamer said he was open to changing his mind and said that evidence and witnesses could sway his decision.

~Snipped~

On Thursday, Victor argued against the judge's decision, saying it was "not appropriate to say there is a reasonable probability of prison" because all the charges are eligible for probation.

He advised Johnson not to make any statements before her sentencing

Read more:

http://www.kpho.com/story/19974188/elizabeth-johnson-remains-in-jail-longer-sentence-possible
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Post by Weeziethm on Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:00 am

Sentencing is tomorrow, December 7th, for Elizabeth Johnson.

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Post by Guest on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:39 pm

Weeziethm wrote:Sentencing is tomorrow, December 7th, for Elizabeth Johnson.


Weeziethm thank you kindly for the reminder, it slipped up on me. I am very curious as to the outcome, gosh, I hope she gets real time.

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