I don't know about George....

From the time he did the "suicide attempt".... my first thought was he was involved.

I'm a firm believer he "is" a slim ball. Been reading that he was out of work, pretending to work (sound familiar) and his girlfriend was giving him money so Cindy wouldn't suspect he didn't have a job. Don't know if they've discounted the girlfriend saying George told her "it was a terrible accident".... if it's valid, I hope they call her to the stand.

I asked myself "WHY IN THE WORLD WITH A GRANDCHILD HE LOVED SO MUCH" would he try a cover up to make it seem that it was a murder, putting her little body out to rot and be drug by animals. That's really impossible to accept. But then I did read.... it's a crime for a child to drown while you are the caregiver, babysitter,.... supposed to be watching over them. He is an x-cop.... maybe it was more important to protect himself at that point. I sure don't know.

He did have keys to that car....
I think the defense will cross examine him again with detail that will shock us...
they will have to bring out that he took Caylee, told Casey to shut up about, put the tape on Caylee's mouth to make it look like a crazy person took her and murdured her as his cover up. Casey putting the heart on the tape before he took her away in the trunk of the car so he could put her where he thought she would soon be found... but she wasn't. The waiting knowing she was decomposing out there alone in the woods along with what he had done I think drove him to the suicide attempt.

Well George... a CRAZY PERSON DID DO THIS TO HER....
EITHER YOU OR CASEY... OR BOTH

... and then on the other hand I have strong feelings that maybe George is just a slim ball and that's how I'm reading him. Casey had started using chloroform on Caylee so she could go out at night and she overdosed her. Casey, trying to make it look like a "Zanny Murder".... did the same things I said above.... duct tape, make it look like murder.... put her somewhere she'd be found soon so they could have a proper funeral... but that didn't happen. Whoever put her there used the blanket from her room, leaving a matching laundry bag at the house as a match, a Disney bag you know her family recognizes from their house, and then most important.... the rare duct tape that matches what they have at their house.

Now the syringe.... unbelievable

Welcome to RC mindseye. Reading your comments above, sounds like I could have been the one writing this. At first I also thought GA was helping KC cover up an accident, or else he knew ahead of time what KC had done to Caylee, and that is why he attempted the suicide. But now, I'm not too sure of that theory.

I do believe your second comment is more to the point. I also think KC was drugging Caylee and putting her in the trunk at night. I think her parents were mad at her the day after father's day and wouldn't answer their phones when she called them about baby sitting that Monday nite so she could spend the night with Tony. She got into one of her rages, like we saw in the jail house tapes, and that is when she killed Caylee. If the duct tape was only over her mouth, so she couldn't cry out, the heat in the trunk could still have killed her the next day, as Tony said he laid out of school and they spent the entire day in bed, thus KC didn't check on Caylee till late in the day.

I don't think we will ever know the truth of what happened, as we all know, Casey does not know how to tell the truth.

Again, welcome, and join us in the live chat tomorrow as we watch the trial together.

Hi Mindseye. I get what you're suggesting about George and possible involvement.

Here's my thoughts...but I'm not saying I believe this is what happened...just thoughts...

I do believe the family was used to whoever was in eyesight of Caylee was therefore in charge of her....just like KC did with Caylee when she was at Tony's with her...you know KC would be in Tony's room and Caylee would be in the living room and even waking up whoever was sleeping on the couch?

And I think the whole family fought the evening of June 15th including George getting in on it when he got home from work.

Then it's possible during the day Caylee was not being watched by either KC or George because each one assumed the other had her since she was not in sight of either one and they weren't talking to each other because they were mad so no one really knew who had Caylee. Seriously, I think if Caylee didn't bother anyone then no one checked on her. ..but she had gone outside in the morning and drowned....the ladder could have been forgotten to be moved because of the fight the night before so Caylee got right in without her floatation gear because just a week before KC and Tony had her at the pool at his apartment complex 'teaching her to swim' and she thought she didn't need her floatation gear.Tony had said in the beginning that Caylee thought she was swimming but she was really just being passed back and forth between him and KC. But they let Caylee think she was swimming anyways.

So KC leaves and just assumed George is going to watch Caylee....and George assumes, since he had to work that afternoon, that since KC is gone she must have taken Caylee with her because she knew he had to go to work. But Caylee is dead in the pool.

Now KC remembers George had to work, so she drags her ass on home to get Caylee but George is gone already. Cindy, of course, is at work. KC assumes George took Caylee to Cindy at her work because often times KC had taken Caylee to Cindy at work when KC 'had to work' and Caylee would stay with Cindy during the transition time between KC's 'job' and Cindy getting off work.

KC makes a flurry of phone calls to both George and Cindy...and we know this flurry of calls pinged from the tower that served the Anthony home...so KC was near or at her home when she called her parents repeatedly. I think with this theory it could be argued that she was attempting to get up with her parents to say she was there finally to get Caylee. But no one answers her calls. This is an interesting thought because KC's phone later pings from the area of Cindy's workplace...and no answer again after which KC goes to Tony's.

So at this point, I'm thinking KC could have assumed her parents were both mad at her for not being there when George had to go to work....and her parents are not answering their phones because they think KC is trying to pawn Caylee off on them so she can 'go to work' when they already know she's not working anywhere. In the mean time, Caylee has drowned hours ago!

On cross today that bearded lawyer mentioned to Dr G that maybe the reason no one called 911 upon finding an accidental drowning was because the child was definitely dead so what's the use in it? So...maybe by the time they found Caylee in the pool so many hours had passed that SOMEBODY was going down for not watching her for HOURS which resulted in death.

Of course, KC is going to say she left Caylee with George and he knew she did and he let her drown...and George would say he assumed KC had Caylee...he said, she said...and since both of them are pretty much always on Cindy's shit list they may have conspired to hide this whole thing from Cindy.

Also, remember when KC said she repeatedly tried to call Zanny that afternoon and NO ONE answered! She didn't say SHE didn't answer....she said NO ONE which sounds like plural as in she called more than one person...and since we know, even though the time if off, the only persons she called repeatedly that afternoon were Cindy and George then Zanny = George and Cindy.

But that's just putting a few things together that might add up...but with all the other stuff...it just sounds like a good alternate theory than what probably really happened which probably is that KC killed Caylee on purpose, period.

Goood points - even if George and Casey were both at the house... I think your right...they would have thought the other was watching Caylee.

I found it "fishy" for Cindy to tell co-workers the next day the she thought someone was swimming in their pool, the ladder was down. Sounds like the start of the plan to me.

I do think they all loved her dearly, but the family is so disfunctional... anything could have happened. I just can't see Casey killing her intentionally. She did seem to really love her. But she is a sociopath, putting Caylee to sleep with chloroform so she could do what she wanted to do with no remorse. I feel that's why she was able to be the party girl for the 31 days following. No remorse, no guilt. I think she, and George if he was involved felt Caylee would be found soon and when found it would appear to everyone it was a murder and they would mourn then as a loving family, and they would be suspect free victims of a terrible crime.

HLN recently interviewed George's first wife. She married him right out of high school. She said he was a very nice person but a habitual liar.... (another.... sound familiar)

There was much stupidity in leaving items from the house at the site... is George that Stupid?.... he was a cop. Casey is....

But why would Casey pull George into the crime of hiding the drowned

Welcome to RC, mindseye!

(opps - I'm continuing below)

the drowned Caylee??? It's so off the wall it's like it must have some merit, why would they just pull that out of their hat? Why would Casey even think to make that up???? She's a liar but my God... incriminate her own Father???

After throwing this bomb out in the opening statement.... they MUST have more they intend to back it up with. I think they laid her down on the ground where the dogs both picked up the scent. But they pick up the scent of decomposure.... that takes time to start. Did they cover her with something and in the heat she started to decompose very quickly. I can't imagine them leaving her out there covered while they were figuring out what to do... but those dogs are well trained. Possibly she floated in that pool a long time in the hot sun before being found.

It struck me odd that neither George nor Cindy acted shocked hearing the allegations in the opening statements of Casey's attorney.

When Lee spoke at Caylee's memorial... he said he will hold the secret CMA. Has he been asked in court what that was all about? Cindy, Casey and Caylee all have the same initials - no one knew what he was talking about or who he was talking about.

Well tomorrow's another day...

It has always bugged me when in the jail visit with just "daddy" George says to KC you know somethings are are going to come out and she says I know. What did he mean? I personally have never believed George attempted suicide. Noone stops to get food and beer before suicide and does it the same time his lawyer just happens to be at his house with the wife. I think the fact that Conway is no longer their lawyer speaks volumes.

George is a little odd, and so is Lee. They both give me the creeps...but, I think the entire family tip toed around Casey her entire life and she was never made to own up to her lies/mistakes which helped create who she became. Once Caylee was born all attention Casey once got went to the baby and then they expected her to be an adult/mother.

As far as the dogs hitting on a spot in the yard. If the baby drowned in the pool WHY would they place the body on the other side of the yard out in the open? (Pool is on one side, Caylees playhouse on the other).

I keep trying to put George in on the crime. Why would a parent be involved in a crime (or accident) their child commited? To protect them? If so, would he not do the very best job he could to insure his daughter could get away with it? (he was a cop) I can come up with quite a few senerios to cover up this accidental drowning story off the top of my head and none of them involve pretend people or any of the facts in this case. If he intentionally framed her, why? Why would he do that? Would she really sit in jail for three years without ratting him out?
I hope we know the truth some day, the real truth...but I doubt it.

I don't think he was involved to protect her...
I think he was covering his own ass because he was supposed to be watching her, or they both were and wern't which makes them equally responsible, and being a cop he knew that. I believe I heard it said that the neglect of supervision that results in death of a child is a felony.

Plus my God... as said above... Cindy's wrath.

I think she ratted him out a long time ago to her attorney, but until her court case, we didn't hear it. And of course the other option is this is all a result of her own actions that resulted in death and her crazy Zanny cover up and leaving her to look like she was murdered.

A couple things....

3 years ago when the media was wondering if Caylee drowned in the backyard, Cindy admonished "People drown all the time and are brought back". I found that remark to be suggestively weird in that it suggests if Caylee had drowned and there had been time elapsed to where she could have been brought back then she would have been....either a 911 call or Cindy or George both knowing CPR either one of them might have been able to save Caylee. This sort of holds with the defense question in cross yesterday that if Caylee had been drowned for too long then no emergency rescue call would have been made. So in line with the defense allegations that Caylee drowned, I would say if KC had found the body floating in the pool she would have called for help because she would not know it was too late and because she couldn't do a rescue on her...but on the other hand if Cindy or George had found the body both of them would know if it was too late to call 911.

Also, way back when, Cindy accused Jesse of drowning Caylee in the backyard pool. So the pool drowning thing has been at least an option for manner of death with the Anthony family since 3 years ago, especially from Cindy.

Second thing....Lee's statement of long ago to Casey when he was trying to get info on finding a missing Caylee "Is this like last time?"

What the heck is this 'last time'? Well, given that Cindy said she last saw Caylee on June 9th and given that she suggested Ricardo has something to do with this and given that Ricardo testified that on June 9th KC and Caylee were in the bed sleeping when he went to sleep but Caylee was not there in the morning and KC told him Cindy called and made her bring Caylee home in the middle of the night....what might this suggest?

It might suggest that June 9th something happened to Caylee...such as too much chloroform...and KC rushed Caylee home to Cindy that night. And nurse Cindy took care of Caylee because you can't really call 911 for help when the child is sick due to chloroform used on her. Is this what Lee meant by "Is this like last time?" And is this the secret Lee promised to keep so as not to encourage the prosecution in the area of chloroform?

Next thought.....we know KC and George were always on Cindy's shit list so it's easy to assume KC and George would hide things from Cindy....BUT we also know that KC and Cindy teamed up on George and didn't want his involvement in anything....Cindy, for example, didn't even want George asking questions about where KC worked. So basically what this dysfunctional family did was this....Cindy was either at odds with both KC and George or at times Cindy was friending KC against George....in that light it would seem KC and Cindy might have conspired to keep Caylee's death from George.

I mean, it was Cindy who spoke to KC every day on the phone after June 16th....until July 3rd when KC wouldn't answer her phone and Cindy panicked. Could Cindy have been helping KC with her lies about why she was not home?

Additionally, about Cindy....there was a neighbor who was a friend of KC at one point who said on a news report (sorry can't recall her name but I don't see it on the witness list) that Cindy told her on June 16th that KC and Caylee were going to be gone for a month to Jacksonville while KC looked for work so not to be worried if she didn't see Caylee for a while.

A MONTH! that's like the so called script KC said Zanny gave her to follow that told KC not to call the cops for 30 days!

And then after 30 days, amazingly Cindy calls the cops. And does what? Reports the car stolen! But it was already back at the house! So what was her point in reporting it stolen? apparently an attempt to get the cops involved without having to admit she knew anything about Caylee being dead.

Then Cindy can't say she knew about it...so she gets Lee to come over so KC can confess the nanny took Caylee story to him so Cindy can be innocent in all of this.

Is this then, a conspiracy between Mother and Daughter?

OK look at the gas can incident...Cindy called KC and told her George called the cops on it. But KC didn't admit to Cindy she had them....yet when George sneaks around to see if she has them that afternoon, even without his asking about them, KC says to him "here's your fking cans!" I could surmise, given the mother/daughter bonding against George, that Cindy called KC to tell her George had called the damn cops. Hence, mother and daughter team had to be cautious about what might come of it.

The problem with this case, as I see it, is that there are too many unanswered questions that seem like they can only be answered if either George or Cindy or both were involved.

WoW... those are very interesting thoughts Lottie.

And today... the duct tape was "not" found at the home, but at the volunteer location. And who was always at that location... George and Cindy. Who admitted under testimony they put that tape on the gas can so it wouldn't spurt out.... George. I had heard this before and was wondering when the connection would come out. Probably during the defense portion.

My question with Lotties' thoughts are why would Cindy call and say the car smells like a dead body if they were conspiring a "murder". Maybe Cindy and Casey plan to dump this all on George since he had access to the tape and the car?

Maybe their story will be Casey had run an errand, George dosed off, when she came home they frantically looked for Caylee who had drowned an hour or more before and then George took over telling Casey to keep her mouth shut.... he would make it look like a murder hmmm but if he did... he did a very poor job using her little blanket from the house, the laundry bag from the house, and the disney bag that was obviously from her room, and using duct tape they could retrace to all of them having access too. Is he that dumb????

About the duct tape being used at the volunteer location to tape up pictures and whatnot....I can't 100% remember who said what, but Lee, George and Cindy were all asked who used the tape for that...and at least Cindy denied using it. I think IIRC Lee admitted to it, and George might have said he didn't recall if he did it or someone else did. But I'm pretty sure Cindy said they didn't even use duct tape at the volunteer location. And when confronted with pictures that the tape was used there, Cindy just blew it off as it wasn't worth talking about. My point here is that whoever did admit to using that duct tape probably didn't tape up Caylee.

Good question about why Cindy would say the car smelled of a dead body....she did say though that she only said that to get the cops over there faster, and she said George was the one who said it to her after which she asked if maybe it could be the pizza and George allegedly said maybe it could.

But why did she really say it? Probably because she was distancing herself from having already known there was one and she wanted to act like this was something new to her before the cops pointed it out to her. She didn't want to have to react in front of the cops as if this was new because she didn't trust how her fake reaction would be perceived...thus guilty conscience? also....when people lie, they don't always cover their asses well and just intend on explaining things away with BS if they screw up.

See I had the misfortune of growing up in a house full of sociopaths. I have seen them at work so many times - at my expense- and it never ceases to amaze me the stuff they think people will fall for...and most of the time people do fall for what they say mainly because their stories are missing elements that actually make sense to where you don't have to analyze it, and people just go with reasonable belief because they are confused by the missing pieces that would connect the dots that would make the story sound true without having to analyze it. In other words, a sociopath doesn't reason their lies out before stating them...they provide reasons as needed to continue the lie/story they want to present if questioned.....so when normal people hear their odd stories they first go What?...because it doesn't make complete sense yet....but everyone who has ever dealt with a sociopath knows that asking a sociopath to explain things will only make things more confusing...so normal people just tend to either believe what they say at face value or dismiss it altogether. It's very hard to get into a sociopath's head because you can't reason out what was not reasoned in in the first place and sociopaths don't reason things in before they do them expect only so far as that very moment they need to say stuff. And then, when they need to further explain- should anyone ask them to, they only explain the one thing you are asking at the moment and they don't necessarily take themselves back to the beginning and tie it all together...they start at new points all the time...in other words, there is no big picture with them, there are many small plots that end up disjointed and confusing.

Well George already admitted on stand he was the one who placed the duct tape on the garbage can... and we know it was from the volunteer location. So we know that much.

Your explanation of a sociopath is like a detailed drawing of Casey. Right on target.

One other point that struck me as odd... the defense didn't try to make something of was.... the dog handler said he asked to have the car removed from the crime lab garage. He talked about the other substances in the garage and what had been thrown away into the garage garbage from the labs that they could respond to in looking for decomposition and it would throw them off. ...... well If I were Biaz, I would have jumped all over that. Claiming the possibility of the soft surfaces of Casey's car.... the seats, headliner, fabric trunk liner.... could have absorbed some of those odors from being in the garage which could cause the dog to alert in error.

I have been reading this thread and thinking (I know..uh oh! LOL) Anyway...the one thing that I have always thought was Lee & possibly George was involved, at least afterwards....cover up, etc.

I can't figure out why whom ever DID dump Caylee's body...why on earth would they wrap her up in bags, tape, etc. that would link her to the house? IF they would have just dumped her body, down the road, exactly where they found her...without tape, without bags...LE would never have been able to rule it a homicide. It's the duct tape, bags & such, that allows LE to link it back to SOMEONE at that home.

I think she was in the freezer, in the garage..until the 24th, when the car was backed in & KC gave George his cans back. I think that poor baby was in the freezer & was THEN put into the trunk. JMHO

WOW what have I been missing! I just came upon this and your theories and opinions are very interesting. Way to go ladies!!!
I'm old school ... KC wanted to go to Puerto Rico with her friends, Cindy said she was busy and couldn't watch her so KC killed her. Open and close case. Caylee didn't drown. George wasn't in on it even though he is kind of sly but not guilty. KC is soley responsible for the murder of Caylee. If I wasn't in such a rush I would write more but my granddaughter is yelling at me to watch the new Nick iCarly movie! :)) I'll be back soon! I like the way you think!

FystyAngel wrote:I have been reading this thread and thinking (I know..uh oh! LOL) Anyway...the one thing that I have always thought was Lee & possibly George was involved, at least afterwards....cover up, etc.

I can't figure out why whom ever DID dump Caylee's body...why on earth would they wrap her up in bags, tape, etc. that would link her to the house? IF they would have just dumped her body, down the road, exactly where they found her...without tape, without bags...LE would never have been able to rule it a homicide. It's the duct tape, bags & such, that allows LE to link it back to SOMEONE at that home.

I think she was in the freezer, in the garage..until the 24th, when the car was backed in & KC gave George his cans back. I think that poor baby was in the freezer & was THEN put into the trunk. JMHO

Fysty, I've wondered if KC's visit to the house on the 24th was to get Caylee out of the freezer, but George was home so she came back another day and did it....the 24th was a Tuesday and she had all week before Friday Night party time.

In answer to your question about why all the stuff from the house that was a dead give away....KC was over it. She doesn't think about tomorrow.

I do not believe George got rid of the body. He is too shrewd. He knows he could have dumped her in any alligator infested waters and been done. Remember when someone reported seeing a woman looking like KC coming out of the woods somewhere else and then George was seen staring in to the woods? I wonder if Kc did originallly put her else where and that is why no soil on shoes etc. But then really in florida, she could have been barefooted or had a pair of flip flops she threw away. I think KC acted alone in the beginning but I do believe at some point one of the other low lifes knew where she was.Today the guy said he belived her to have been put in that spot the end of june early july and that they are sure she had friends ride around in the car all the while Caylee was in the trunk. Sick people.
The other thing that still freaks me out is the fact she was friends with Melinda Duckett, she attended Trenton's baby shower. Lee is friends with Trenton's father who helped early on to look for Caylee.. Melinda Duckett was smart enough to get rid of little Trenton never to be found.I think she thought she could do it if Melinda did it sucessfully, hell who knows she may have helped her. I can't stand the thought she was in the freezer, every time I walk by ours I think of Fysty's theory.

Sorry about the freezer Tiger but I just can't shake it that Caylee may have been in there.

Wouldn't it just blow the hell out of everything if Bozo got up there & stated the Caylee WAS in the freezer for some of that time? What would that do to the prosecution? All of the evidence is based on time in the trunk & tossed in the woods. Lets say for "What if's..." that she was in the freezer until say...June 24th...when she backed into the garage. Frozen for a week or more....what would that do to everyone's testimony on the prosecution side...the bugs, etc.????

Even if she was placed in the freezer for a week, she would have done it as soon as possible. Then, after Caylee thawed out, decomp would have proceeded very fast and the fluids would have licked out into the trunk.

I really don't think Caylee was ever in the freezer. KC doesn't think that way. I think Caylee died in that trunk, while KC was at Tony's house. She then took her home and taped her with George's duct tape, applied the heart sticker and put her in the 3 bags, and back into the trunk.

She finally dumped the remains when the smell was getting more than she could take, and she didn't bother to go to too much trouble in doing so.

What would it do to the testimony? Well, might it not still work for the days after Caylee thawed out? They said she was decomposing in the trunk for 3-5 days.

Let's say hypothetically that KC removed Caylee from the freezer on the 25th after finding George home on the 24th. She drives around knowing it's going to start to stink so she goes ahead and tells Amy her car stinks. (my sociopath fake mom used to say you had to tell stuff first before it happened...predict it so when it does happen people already know the story/lie) Then by the 27th it really is stinking after thawing out for about 24 hours in the hot trunk plus a day of decomp. So she parks it at Amscott by the dumpster to hide any smell and figure out what to do next.



And the bag would probably rip when she took her from the freezer so a hole in the bag might have left a mess in the trunk...which KC cleaned up with paper towels and then rebagged Caylee....put the bag in the laundry bag because it was easier to carry. And you know, that's a heavy clump of ice...so maybe she had to wait till she thawed out so she'd be easier to handle.

At any rate, those security cameras at Amscott aren't lined up on the dumpster. Baez even pointed out the directioning of them. He even asked if the car had been moved and brought back no one would know. So who is to say that after Amscott hours someone did come back and get the car, dump the body and then park it back there again? It's not like there'd be much chance of that spot being taken. No one would know the car had been taken away during the night. And she had Tony's car at the time with no Tony keeping track of her...so she could park it next door and then drive off in it after her dumping was done.

And what of it being out of gas? KC said it was almost half full but the gauge was broken. George and Simon Burch said it registered on empty. LE checked the gauge and it was not broken...so did KC leave the car there with gas in it? And just lie to Tony about it being out of gas? And did she run it almost out of gas on purpose after dumping the body and then just let it idle at the dumpster in the middle of the night until it was out? KC ran out of gas so much I'm sure she was quite familiar with how long she had gas after it started registering empty.

So if that was the case, the 3-5 days of decomp would still work.

I thought early on 3 years ago someone said KC's keys were in the ignition when the car was found. Anyone else remember this? It was supposedly locked with the key in the ignition and KC's purse on the seat. I think Cindy said it IIRC. But in testimony no purse was seen on the seat....hmmm...anyone recall about this?

Yes Lottie, Cindy said KC's work purse???? was still in the car. I'm sure CA took the purse inside, as that is where she found Amy's phone number. I'm sure she didn't put it back in the car after she cleaned it.

I don't know how you distinguish a work purse from any other purse, when you don't work.

I missed hearing about the freezer until you guys mentioned it here. I hate to even think about that.

But with the drowning theory, let's say George put here there. He would know if Cindy opened if often or not and maybe felt it was safe there for a couple days until he could move her.

With the Casey overdose theory - why would she have taken Caylees body back to her own house and put her in the freezer and risk it being opened by Cindy or George until she could move her again. What would be the point of freezing her first. If Caylee was dead, in the trunk from chloroform and heat, I think she remained there while Casey figured out what to do. The duct tape was not at the house for her to use, it was at the volunteer center. She may have gone to the house when everyone may have been gone, got the canvas laundry bag (which we know they have a match for at the house) and filled it with garbage bags, caylees blanket to wrap her in. Or maybe that laundry bag was already in her car and so was the blanket. So.... why risk going back to her own house to hid her body.... why freeze her first when she already had her in the trunk....and why would she go to the volunteer center for their duct tape... it was not kept at their house???

Same question goes for George... did he stop by to use their duct tape for the gas can on the way to fill the cans... it wasn't at their house....but he testified he put the tape on the can so it wouldn't spill out when he went to get the car????

Why did George report the gas cans stolen in the first place. That's just STRANGE... who would do that??? There's some reason he wanted to distance himself from them for awhile.... to prove they were out of his possession for a period of time.

Cindy telling 911 the car smelled like a dead body (what a coincidence) and then saying it was only to get the police there faster - that was a lie. Just like telling co-workers she thinks someones been in her pool the ladder was down. These both sound a little sociopathic to me... tell first so when people find out .... they already knew you mentioned it so they don't suspect you were hiding anything...

One of you already mentioned the Cindy 911 call to report her car stolen by her daughter, but her daughter was right there with her and the car had been returned... Cindy is strange too. There's more to her with all this too!

What a bunch of strange people!!

sitemama wrote:Yes Lottie, Cindy said KC's work purse???? was still in the car. I'm sure CA took the purse inside, as that is where she found Amy's phone number. I'm sure she didn't put it back in the car after she cleaned it.

I don't know how you distinguish a work purse from any other purse, when you don't work.

Maybe it's invisible like her job so it's easy to tell the difference because you can't see it?

I thought she found Amy's phone number on a resume Amy had given KC and it was laying on the car seat. And then I thought it was just a piece of paper with nothing but Amy's number laying on the car seat. And then I thought she had it because Amy's mail was coming there or some shit like that. Why can't this family tell one story and stick to it? Oh well, I guess it's hard to remember all your lies when you have to make them up so fast and furious.

Yep, Mindseye...they are all strange....and we have to consider the family dynamic that Cindy's family thought George and Casey were losers. George couldn't hold a job, gambled money away, fell for internet scams etc....and KC had been stealing money from Cindy's mom and dad. Cindy had to have been embarrassed of them both but rather than admit that to her family she just took up for them....so let's say Cindy knew Caylee had died...doesn't matter how she died...but let's just say she knew and didn't want her family to say "I told you so". Might she have thought it best to hide the whole thing?

To give Caylee a proper burial would have been costly too...and they were maxed out on the house and other bills, and I'm sure they didn't have any life insurance on Caylee being so young. They were pretty much broke...so what was she going to do? Admit KC screwed up and killed Caylee and then ask for a loan to bury her? I think Cindy had/has too much false pride. She might really have thought if some bad ole Nanny did it she might be able to get help burying Caylee once she was found (by her 3rd birthday) and not have to hear her family bitch about loser KC.

Actually, the heart sticker makes me think Cindy...because no way do I believe KC would bother with that....and Cindy was the family scrapbooker and maker of framed collages. KC just did facebook and myspace like most young people her age.

The duct tape was not at the house for her to use, it was at the volunteer center.

Remember KC murdered Caylee in June, around the 16th. I think KC had a roll of that tape in her car, because I think she had been using trunk and duct tape for a baby sitter when mom wouldn't keep her to spend the night with her various bf's.

CA probably removed the tape from the car when she cleaned out the car, and put it back in the house or garage. We know GA used that tape to hang posters, pictures and signs at the center, but not until after July 16.

GA took this tape when he worked in Ohio, and I believe KC was only 3 when they moved to FL. Surely, the roll was getting rather small in approximately 20 years, and I'm sure GA used all of it when he was hanging all those signs. That explains why LE did not find any at the house when they did the search on Dec. 11th.

KC also liked heart stickers, as she put them on lots of pages on her facebook and myspace accounts.

Interesting theory about the freezer. I don't know if she really put Caylee in the freezer or not, but I just wanted to add that when Casey abandoned the car, and Tony picked her up, she had a bag of frozen foods with her. Did she have to make room in the freezer for Caylee?

Mama, I hadn't heard the George brought that tape from Ohio way back when. I thought the thing with the Henkel duct tape was that it was made in Ohio but it was a special type due to the high heat insensitivity that they sold it other places....didn't they say Lowe's or Home Depot?

I remember they asked or talked about way back when that the tape was good for stuff like wrapping parts of cars that get hot....I thought then it might be George's because he had that car dealership or because he had that dealership he might be familiar with it and just got some for use around the house if needed. But as our precious KC had men she slept with who worked at car places, perhaps she got it stole it from one of them?

Julie wrote:Interesting theory about the freezer. I don't know if she really put Caylee in the freezer or not, but I just wanted to add that when Casey abandoned the car, and Tony picked her up, she had a bag of frozen foods with her. Did she have to make room in the freezer for Caylee?

Right, Julie....she did have that bag of frozen food with her...hours after she first called around for a lift from Amscott. Remember she called other people before she called Tony? I think she started calling around 9:30am but Tony didn't get his call until about 11.

Tony was asked if the food was still frozen and he said he didn't know. My guess would be NO since it was like a couple hours later.

It's kind of suspect that she was at her house that morning getting frozen foods from the freezer and wasn't seen there....it was not George's hours of work. Where was he?

Oh wait! My mind just bumped me a possible speculative answer!

Considering that George did say the freezer key was missing, what if KC had the key so no one could find Caylee....and she took her frozen baby out on say the 25th while everyone was at work and relocked the freezer. Then on the 27th she visits the home and takes frozen foods out, bringing back the key, as an excuse for having the key in the first place all that time. Even if George was home that morning he wouldn't think anything odd of her doing that...but if that would be true, then George would be holding back about seeing KC that day. And why would he do that?

I wish I could find where George was talking about that key and all the keys he had on a hook in the garage. IIRC he said he had removed the shed key to keep KC from taking his gas and he was asked if any other keys were not there that usually were and he said the freezer key but he wasn't concerned over it because they didn't use that freezer that much. Then I think he said he thought it was missing but it was not at the present time so he wasn't sure it was ever missing or not.

Now if that's a close recall of what George said about the freezer key then she might well have had it all that time Caylee was in there, and then it was back after Caylee was removed and that would explain George's uncertainty either real or deliberate.

Was the freezer ever tested? I sure hope so, because what a perfect place to hide a body for a few days (and take the key)!!!! It could of been the reason Cindy called the cops about the car is she was sick and tired of Caseys lies and figured the ONLY way to find out where Caylee was is to involve the police. Maybe she thought just the threat of it (when she pulled over in the car with Casey) would be enough but she had to take it further. Knowing she had a close relationship with Lee that is why she called him to pry it out of her.

The main thing that causes me doubt with Cindy and George is not calling the police when they picked up the car at the tow place. George being an ex cop knows the smell of decomp, the tow guy knows the smell, and Cindy stated she knows the smell of rotting flesh. Cindy knows at this point that Casey is lieing like a dog and has not seen Caylee in a month. Yet, they bring a car home smelling like death, George goes to work and Cindy now says she sprayed the car with fabreeze and placed fabric softner in the car. Cover up for their daughter because they assume something bad happened? Or cover up because they know the baby is dead and was in the trunk of car? Or parents in huge denial?

Back to the freezer, I agree the baby could not have been in a plastic bag or it would of ripped when she pulled it out. Maybe she placed her in the white laundry bag and placed her in back yard to thaw out a bit before asking for shovel (seeing the ground was too hard for her to dig a hole or bad place to bury....panic setting in....) body is thawing out, places her in car and thinks about it for a while longer. That area of the woods by the path had a street light by the road. Maybe she waiting until night set in and went as far as she could. (waiting until then allowed the smell of decomp in her trunk).

All I know is they all sound crazy and it is hard to know who may be telling the truth. I honestly don't believe any of them and it is too bad they can't call them all out. Maybe if the judge would have a roll of duck tape in one hand and a couple garbage bags in another and say " NOW you will all tell the truth or else......." HA!

The more I think about this case, the more I think George is innocent and is just being made the fall guy. I wonder this based on my own experiences with the Mother of all Sociopaths aka my fake mom. When she did her thing, there was always one innocent person trapped in the middle, a scapegoat. Let me try to explain a bit...

If she had something she wanted to not take the blame for (because she was perfect) she'd end up blaming it on the only person who didn't have any details about what she had done (that was usually me or my fake dad). Now, she'd never come right out and blame a person to their face, she'd just hint to others that certain actions of this person might indicate they were the culprit and let the others blame the person for her. Then if I would confront her she'd say she didn't say that....others didn't get their story straight. Then if you ask the others, they'd say they thought she'd said it. It was always a quagmire! Nothing ever got solved because she/the one who really did whatever it was, was never suspect.

that is one reason why I am not ruling out that Cindy and KC covered all this up from the time Cindy found out about Caylee's demise no matter how Caylee died. And because, had my fake mom been Cindy, she would have left George out so all his curiosity and speculation and telling of truths about how KC was in an effort to find his granddaughter could be used against him later if need be, as that he was anxious to get the attention off him and onto someone else as well as to steer the case.

Sociopaths say others are doing what they would do. So a sociopath would say George was steering and trying to get the attention off him because that's what the sociopath is doing at the very moment they are throwing suspicion onto the innocent person...and this is second nature to a sociopath. They don't even have to think about it.

Maggie, don't rule out George and/or Cindy being arrested after they don't need them anymore as witnesses. They have lied to the cops more than once and if they can be charged with misdirecting an investigation for 3 years they will be charged for it sooner or later....I hope anyway. Aiding and abetting. I'm guessing a verdict of guilty for KC will get G and/or C arrested forthwith.

Maybe Casey was getting frozen bags of food from the freezer whenever no one was home to put around and on Caylee in the trunk....

When KC abandoned the car, she had already dumped Caylee in the woods. She was stealing food from home, so she could play 'Little Susie, Homemaker' to impress her guy.

My youngest daughter was for ever taking steaks from my freezer to grill at her bf's house. Very typical of a 20 y/o.

Mama... I'm referring to the several days the body was in the trunk decomposing before she abandoned the car.

Once she discarded the body, then abandoned the car, she took the bags of frozen foods, or now unfrozen with her so they would not be in the trunk when found. How do you explain 10 bags of defrosted food left in your trunk? That's why when Tony picked her up she had them with her.

I think she was used to scarfing food from the freezer to impress the boyfriend whenever she was able to get away with it.... so this was an easy thing for her to think of doing.

Still say, the only way the baby herself was in the freezer was if she died at her house in the pool. Either placed there by George or Casey.... both knowing....
Otherwise, no reason to take her there and freeze her, risk her being found by parents and then remove her and discard her. I think Casey would have left her in the trunk since she was already dead if she was in this alone.

I also thought if she drowned, she was laid on the lawn near the playhouse and shed - to see if there was room to place her in either temporarily.... then they he/she thought of the freezer. 2 dogs just don't make mistakes alerting at the same spot. That baby was laid there for some reason. I think she floated in the hot sun for several hours, maybe more promoting the decomposition.

There is no reason for the dogs to alert in that yard if Casey overdosed her with chloroform in her trunk while at Tony's or elsewhere. Just don't believe she would bring her back to her house for any reason.... time will tell.

The dogs alerting in the backyard plays into Baez's theory...which is unfortunate for the prosecution. However, Baez himself poo pooed his own benefit by asking if the dogs might hit on blood that might have been there at some point such as if 'anyone' had bled there, didn't have to be Caylee. The expert answered that they would.

So apparently even Baez isn't interested in saying Caylee was laid dead in that back yard during any stage of decomposition.

And he certainly doesn't want to say Caylee was ever in the trunk. He's trying hard to pin that on the adipocere found on the paper towels. Of course, he's batting a zero trying to suggest it came from any sort of fatty breakdown besides a human body.

So if Caylee drowned, where did she go next?

well, as I've said, if Caylee drowned "then" she may have been put in the freezer until he/she decided to dispose of her. George could say "where's the freezer key" so Cindy would think it's misplaced during that time frame. How long she was in the freezer would have been until the experts figured she was placed in the woods per the decomposition, root growth, insects, etc.
whatever that time frame is.

Once they decided to make it appear as a murder, then they put on the duct tape, bagged her, taken her in the car trunk to the woods. She could have been in the trunk several days after removing her from the freezer waiting for the perfect time no one would see them there, so she thawed and the smell permiated the trunk. Then they knew they "had" to get her out of the trunk and placed her body so it would be found and determined a murder.

Casey could have done all this alone if she were alone with the baby when she drowned. Just take the freezer key and say you don't know where it is. But I don't think she thinks that clearly. This sounds more like a George scenerio.

If Baez is going to continue on with the drowning theory - he has to cross examine George on details of where the baby was in the time frame after drowning up until she was found and who placed her there. I think Casey has given him all that information when she implicated George, he just hasn't presented it yet. I think he will do all this in his phase of the trial... even though George will deny everything... it will fill the jury with reasonable doubt that Casey killed her.

Ding, Ding, Ding...I think you are right on the money.

I think Caylee drowned in the pool...but was not quite dead yet or too recent that the dogs wouldn't have hit on the pool. Dogs CAN detect even in water. I think KC was frantic & did try to call her mother & father. It's my opinion that KC placed Caylee where the dogs did hit..in a frantic way..like OMG, OMG, OMG.

I think they were all in on it after the fact. Where Cindy actually came into play...I'm not sure. I think George was pretty much right from the start or directly after. Like most liars...there's a little bit of truth in the lie. Why else would KC throw George under the bus for any of it? I know she's a liar but think about it. Why not blame the mother she seems to hate so much?

I can picture George freaking out & putting Caylee in the freezer...then moving Caylee afterward or even having Lee move Caylee. Keep in mind that George just lost $35,000.00 in the Internet scheme.

I believe that George believes he's smarter than Florida LE (because of his past LE experience) and figured that with the whole family in on the "confusion"... that they could create enough reasonable doubt to get KC off. He just had to get her to go along with it. Since she learned lots from Daddy George (lying, thieving, etc.) that wasn't hard.

The tape?? It was the same tape that was used AFTER Caylee was reported missing (hence the putting up of posters with it). Someone made a comment that the tape wasn't found at the house but it was on the can and at the center. It WAS the same tape....Caylee, gas can...posters at the missing person center.

Yep... it WAS the same rare duct tape used on Caylee, the gas can (put there by George's own admittance) and it was used at the volunteer center after she went missing and found there by the police.

I think George readily admitted using that tape himself on the gas can because his finger prints would be on the roll and being a cop he thought of that.

If she drowned as in my scenerio.... George/Casey wanting to cover it up needed time to figure out what the *&^% to do... maybe Cindy was due home soon, or Lee, or whatever... the freezer was the closest, safest temporary place to put her. They laid her down for a few minutes on the lawn seeing if there was room in the playhouse or shed, then they thought of the freezer. They knew no one could open it if it appeared the key was lost and there would be no odor.

Remember he said he thought the freezer key was lost... (obviously while Caylee was in there).... then they found it... (obviously after they had moved her to the trunk)....

Caylee was probably in the trunk far longer than planned. Once they prepared her to look like a murder (either Casey or Cindy placing the heart on the tape) they thought they would be able to take her right away and place her in the woods. Since she had been in the freezer, they thought no smell would transfer if quickly moved. That's an area of other houses and a school near by... But....they may have gone there numerous times and there were always people that may observe them taking a garbage sack into the woods. So they had to go back, and go back, a number of days. I don't think they ever planned to have her there long enough to decompose in the trunk. But in the heat of the trunk in Florida, it all progressed quickly.

Fysty, you gave me an idea....let's say Caylee was in the freezer and the tape was put on when they took her out to promote a kidnap murder thing....maybe this is why the tape is in her hair....the tape wouldn't stick to her cold, wet, icey face so they had to pin it in position by reaching it to her hair.

Lots of great observations and questions in this thread. The prosecution should have consulted RC before going to trial. LOL

What makes me tend to believe the drowning scenerio?

First because if Casey was not at the house the morning of the 16th and she was really somewhere else and found she had overdosed Caylee.... if she wasn't there....how would she know George doesn't have a rock solid alibi with witness' that he was somewhere else at that time on June 16. That would immediately blow her statement that George held the drowned Caylee in his arms and their defense that it was an accident. It would immediately go back to she killed Caylee and this is just another lie.

Second... implicating her own father seems almost inconceivable if it did not have some merit.

Third... I don't think she chloroformed Caylee leaving her in the trunk to sleep. I do think she chloroformed Caylee and put her down to sleep at Tony's or wherever she may be, and sometimes left her and went out for the night if convenient for her. I don't think she was ever put in the trunk until she was dead. Either from overdose by Casey - or drowning and put there by George/Caylee to take her to the woods.

If she was put in the trunk to sleep all the time, Tony and others would be saying "where's Caylee, she was just here".... and no one on the stand said Caylee would just disappear for the night.

LOL...Just hope Bozo isn't watching!

FystyAngel wrote:LOL...Just hope Bozo isn't watching!

He probably searches the net every night looking for new ideas!!!

That's a scary thought maggieg!

He'll probably join our forum pretty soon asking for more ideas

mindseye wrote:He'll probably join our forum pretty soon asking for more ideas

We would be more help then his client is!!!

and no one on the stand said Caylee would just disappear for the night.

One of the witnesses did testify that Caylee was at his place one night, but when he woke, she was gone. When he asked KC where Caylee was, she said her mom called and told her to bring her home.

He would have been asleep, so it must have been late. Would Cindy want KC to bring her out late at night, I don't think so.

Good question for the prosecution to ask Cindy!!!

Can't wait til it starts again Monday!

sitemama wrote:

and no one on the stand said Caylee would just disappear for the night.

One of the witnesses did testify that Caylee was at his place one night, but when he woke, she was gone. When he asked KC where Caylee was, she said her mom called and told her to bring her home.

He would have been asleep, so it must have been late. Would Cindy want KC to bring her out late at night, I don't think so.

She might if Caylee was chloroformed to get her to sleep that night and then KC couldn't get any response from her....they were all the same bed, so what if KC tried moving Caylee over or something and realized she was way too out of it for normal sleep. Might she just take Caylee over to Cindy for help? Is this what Lee meant by "Is this like last time?"

It's possible she'd been chloroforming Caylee for quite some time. Ricardo's 'joke'- as he called it- picture - Win her over with chloroform - he posted on myspace in March while he and KC were dating may have been directed to KC's use of it on Caylee.

LottieM wrote:About the duct tape being used at the volunteer location to tape up pictures and whatnot....I can't 100% remember who said what, but Lee, George and Cindy were all asked who used the tape for that...and at least Cindy denied using it. I think IIRC Lee admitted to it, and George might have said he didn't recall if he did it or someone else did. But I'm pretty sure Cindy said they didn't even use duct tape at the volunteer location. And when confronted with pictures that the tape was used there, Cindy just blew it off as it wasn't worth talking about. My point here is that whoever did admit to using that duct tape probably didn't tape up Caylee.

Good question about why Cindy would say the car smelled of a dead body....she did say though that she only said that to get the cops over there faster, and she said George was the one who said it to her after which she asked if maybe it could be the pizza and George allegedly said maybe it could.

But why did she really say it? Probably because she was distancing herself from having already known there was one and she wanted to act like this was something new to her before the cops pointed it out to her. She didn't want to have to react in front of the cops as if this was new because she didn't trust how her fake reaction would be perceived...thus guilty conscience? also....when people lie, they don't always cover their asses well and just intend on explaining things away with BS if they screw up.

See I had the misfortune of growing up in a house full of sociopaths. I have seen them at work so many times - at my expense- and it never ceases to amaze me the stuff they think people will fall for...and most of the time people do fall for what they say mainly because their stories are missing elements that actually make sense to where you don't have to analyze it, and people just go with reasonable belief because they are confused by the missing pieces that would connect the dots that would make the story sound true without having to analyze it. In other words, a sociopath doesn't reason their lies out before stating them...they provide reasons as needed to continue the lie/story they want to present if questioned.....so when normal people hear their odd stories they first go What?...because it doesn't make complete sense yet....but everyone who has ever dealt with a sociopath knows that asking a sociopath to explain things will only make things more confusing...so normal people just tend to either believe what they say at face value or dismiss it altogether. It's very hard to get into a sociopath's head because you can't reason out what was not reasoned in in the first place and sociopaths don't reason things in before they do them expect only so far as that very moment they need to say stuff. And then, when they need to further explain- should anyone ask them to, they only explain the one thing you are asking at the moment and they don't necessarily take themselves back to the beginning and tie it all together...they start at new points all the time...in other words, there is no big picture with them, there are many small plots that end up disjointed and confusing.

I have to agree with this 100%! We have a family member who has told the most bizzare stories (altho according to her mother she is schizophrenic). It is amazing the things that were said and done to back up her stories, and who they would point the finger at to explain why she is this way-instead of just taking meds for the problem. This illness/or lies (not sure which it is to be honest) caused the entire family to fall apart/split/lose touch with one another, and emotional damage to her two children. Yet, it was always about her and her mom and dad always made excuses for her even at the expence of their own grandchildren! It caused dysfunction in the family instead of dealing with it head on. Things like this grow into monsters-people looking in don't know who the most dysfunctional one is because they have all fallen into it.

mindseye wrote:What makes me tend to believe the drowning scenerio?

First because if Casey was not at the house the morning of the 16th and she was really somewhere else and found she had overdosed Caylee.... if she wasn't there....how would she know George doesn't have a rock solid alibi with witness' that he was somewhere else at that time on June 16. That would immediately blow her statement that George held the drowned Caylee in his arms and their defense that it was an accident. It would immediately go back to she killed Caylee and this is just another lie.

Second... implicating her own father seems almost inconceivable if it did not have some merit.

Third... I don't think she chloroformed Caylee leaving her in the trunk to sleep. I do think she chloroformed Caylee and put her down to sleep at Tony's or wherever she may be, and sometimes left her and went out for the night if convenient for her. I don't think she was ever put in the trunk until she was dead. Either from overdose by Casey - or drowning and put there by George/Caylee to take her to the woods.

If she was put in the trunk to sleep all the time, Tony and others would be saying "where's Caylee, she was just here".... and no one on the stand said Caylee would just disappear for the night.

I read somewhere that to give a person enough chloroform to knock them out more than 20 minutes would probably kill them. So if KC had been using it to knock Caylee out and hope she'd just stay asleep on her own accord after 20 minutes or so...then OK but she could still wake up on her own and need to be put back to sleep....but I heard a doctor explain that chloroform was like all other anesthetics in that it suppresses the respiratory system and if you give too much the person just stops breathing...like the stuff Michael Jackson was given. So if KC used it on Caylee she overdosed her probably to keep her asleep longer...this spells party time need....and when was the first party at Fusian KC went to?

June 13th! And no one but the Anthony's saw Caylee after that...unless we are to believe the Father's Day video was actually on June 15th.

I think the prosecution was remiss in not investigating this case back to June 7th that was the original date Cindy gave for last seeing Caylee...then she said the 8th and then the 9th and left it at the 9th until August when LE pulled the Father's Day video off the computer dated June 15th. By starting at June 15th instead of the 9th they are missing out on June 13th which was the first Friday party night that KC had to impress her new bf/Tony. Who had Caylee that night? If Cindy had her on June 15th when did KC bring Caylee to her?

I've wondered on here before, and I'll recap....the nurse at the nursing home was originally confused over when she saw Cindy there with Caylee....her normal shift was 3-11pm but on that day she remembered seeing them she had worked overtime coming in at 11am. On Father's Day she did not work overtime. Her overtime was the week before (June 8th)...and since the clock on the wall in the video shows 12 o'clock this makes it seem like it was June 8th. Later the same nurse, when asked if she was sure about the date of her ot and seeing them there, said she didn't work ot on Father's Day but maybe she saw them there before her shift started at 3 that day if they were there then. She never committed!

Cindy's epass shows her driving home to Hopespring (can't recall exactly) between 2:30 and 4:30. Doesn't seem likely Cindy was there when the nurse got to work at 3 even if she came in a little early.

And now Cindy has testified on the stand that the week before Father's Day she went to see her dad at the nursing home because her mom had told her he wasn't doing well. No one asked her if she went again the next week! LE is just going by the dates on the computer and camera....but Cindy admits she and KC uploaded the video off the camera to the computer on June 15th late so it might be the 16th early...but who's to say the camera's date wasn't wrong or reset or was dated at all?

I also have found it mysterious by omission that nobody in the Anthony family talks about June 14th...where was Caylee then? Or June 13th....where was Caylee then? All we have is Tony saying he bought Caylee and KC food at the Cheesecake factory on June 12th...then nobody sees Caylee until the Father's Day video. And they should talk about it because supposedly Cindy had Caylee on Sunday June 15th....when did KC bring Caylee to her that weekend? Did Cindy have her the night of June 13th while KC partied for the first time at Fusian? Did she then have her all weekend?

No one has ever asked Cindy if she sat Caylee that night? Did the Nanny have her then too? No one has asked Cindy if she had her that weekend either. But no one at Tony's saw her there. That entire weekend has fallen off the map except for the questionable Father's Day video.

However, Clint House told Greta Van S that he heard KC talking to her mom on the 14th and saying some excuse about where Caylee was. Clint knew it was the 14th because he went to see his dad for Father's Day the next day. Cindy might well have not seen Caylee since the 9th! AND Clint said Tony was pissed that he was talking to Greta! Wouldn't it be a twist if it turned out that Tony knew Caylee had died? And helped KC the whole time? And has been lying his ass off to protect his own involvement? I've never trusted Tony...no matter how cooperative he seemed to be, he just wreaks of Sleezeball to me. And he seemed like a fakeass on the stand to me too...and was actually too friendly toward Baez. Of course, he would be if he were in the know....if KC goes down and decides to spill the beans that this hypothetical theory of Caylee dying on June 13th is somehow right, so goes Tony....and also Cindy and George.

I don't know....the prosecution and LE may have been so confused over all the missing links and lies that only got worse as the days progressed into more of the same, they may have overlooked the possibility that the date is wrong. Casey did say to Cindy in front of that girl the Leonard P had in the house that they had the date wrong as if it was funny....and she then commented "they haven't even found her clothes yet".