Site Where Caylee's Remains Were Found

That vacant house where the DC searched was owned by Hernan Gonzalez and it had been vacant for about a year, or so it was reported here

http://tinyurl.com/ybo9rky

Funny that Hernan sort of rhymes with Fernad(ez).

Casey had to have left Caylee somewhere all those times she told her friends Caylee was with the nanny prior to June 16th. Maybe she had been leaving her in that abandoned house, drugged, taped, whatnot. I wonder if that house was ever searched inside by LE.

Lottie, you think a lot like all the rest of us on this site. Way back, actually before Caylee's 'lovely bones' were found, we had the discussion about the properties owned by Gonzalez(s) and Fernandez that was very close to where Caylee was found.

One of those 2 corner houses belonged to a "Zenaida" too.

Remeber Casey said she dropped Caylee off between 9 & 1? One house ends with 9 and one house ends with 1.

Oh! Even more interesting is if you Google Earth 8905 Suburban Drive, even though it's not a real address, it is the exact spot where they found Caylee! 8905 is 8/9/05....Caylee's date of birth.

Julie, that stuff has all been floating around for a long time.... at first I was intrigued by it... but I just can't believe KC was smart enough to figure all that out.

I just think it's the great imagination of lots of people at work....

JMO

It can't all just be coincidence, can it? There is just too much of it.

Julie, your guess is as good as mine. That's one of the reasons I am SOOOOO anxious for the trial! Maybe we will get answers to some of our questions.

The one thing I feel sure of... anything that makes KC look intelligent is a coincident..... the rest she probably planned. She is nothing more than your average, run of the mill baby killer. Period.

JMO

Julie wrote:Remeber Casey said she dropped Caylee off between 9 & 1? One house ends with 9 and one house ends with 1.

Oh! Even more interesting is if you Google Earth 8905 Suburban Drive, even though it's not a real address, it is the exact spot where they found Caylee! 8905 is 8/9/05....Caylee's date of birth.

I do tend to believe these things are meaningful, but I lean toward them being used after the fact of Caylee being dumped there as sort of a map, or a riddle.

Casey saying she dropped Caylee off between 9 and 1 is in conflict with George saying he saw them leave at 12:50PM on the 16th. Not that I believe George or any Anthony, but it does seem like Casey meant something other than she dropped Caylee off with the nanny between 9 and 1.

The 8905 address for that lot Caylee was found on is really creepy. But who would know the address of an empty lot, that empty lot in particular before it became news?

The Zenaida and the Gonzalez are too much also!

If Casey did make up this elaborate riddle, maybe there's more! Maybe someone should go look on the lot with the address of 8908 if there is one and see if that's where the clothes are that Casey said LE hadn't even found yet. Or maybe some lot somewhere with the address 6168 for June 16 '08. 8)

One thing for sure, this riddle Casey told is reason enough for Baez to kiss his suggestion goodbye about someone else dumping Caylee in the woods while Casey was in jail. Casey told where she was before she went to jail.

It's just so weird. What are the odds that your dead child's remains are found on a plot of land that is their birthdate, not just the month and the day, but the year too.

I think since Casey lived in that house since she was 3, there's a good chance she at least knew her cross street was the 8900 block. She also said Caylee would be "home, by her birthday". Clue? Coded message? Who knows.

What kind of drop off time is between 9 & 1? I could see if she said between 9 & 9:30, or even between 9 & 10, but between 9 & 1? That's a 4 hour gap, doesn't she know if it was morning or afternoon? And again, it just happens to be the ending numbers of those two houses, one is Zenaida, the other is H. Gonzalez.

Lottie, I'm curious did you do the Google Earth, I did a long time ago, and typed in 8905 Suburban Drive, Orlando FL and it is so weird as the satellite zooms in on that particular spot.

Julie wrote:It's just so weird. What are the odds that your dead child's remains are found on a plot of land that is their birthdate, not just the month and the day, but the year too.

I think since Casey lived in that house since she was 3, there's a good chance she at least knew her cross street was the 8900 block. She also said Caylee would be "home, by her birthday". Clue? Coded message? Who knows.

What kind of drop off time is between 9 & 1? I could see if she said between 9 & 9:30, or even between 9 & 10, but between 9 & 1? That's a 4 hour gap, doesn't she know if it was morning or afternoon? And again, it just happens to be the ending numbers of those two houses, one is Zenaida, the other is H. Gonzalez.

Lottie, I'm curious did you do the Google Earth, I did a long time ago, and typed in 8905 Suburban Drive, Orlando FL and it is so weird as the satellite zooms in on that particular spot.

Julie, I hear what you are saying, and I appreciate it.... but IMO that's giving KC just WAY TOO MUCH credit. We can make something out of anything after-the-fact.....

I agree lots of things are hinky in this case... but this one would have to assume KC is smarter than LE... and I can't buy it. And I don't believe she and Lee or anyone else were speaking in code...... KC wasn't giving them anything, because to do so would implicate HER big time.

I have to admit, though, I always thought KC giving the time she dropped off Caylee with the imaginanny as "between 9 and 1" was a little strange. And, as far as I know, no one ever called her on it. Who doesn't know what time they dropped off their child on the day she went missing? And that information was given in her statement, long before GA ever said that he last saw KC and Caylee at 12:50 p.m. on June 16th. (And he's "for darn sure" about that time! LOL)

JMO, of course....

AJ, I agree with you. I, too, think KC is very smart and lots of things others see as coincidences, I have always felt they were planned and carried out by KC.

AJ wrote:

I think dumb ppl have no ability to deceive, and connive. These 2 character flaws IMO, show intelligence..

AJ, I would have to respectfully disagree with you. I don't believe it takes intelligence at all to be conniving and deceitful. IMO if she was so intelligent, the fact that she IS conniving and deceitful would never have come to light. She would have been too intelligent for those facts to come out.

I agree she is manipulative and secretive and lots of other things... I just don't equate those unfavorable traits with the favorable one of intelligence.

JMO, but I do respect that you believe KC is intelligent. On that, we'll just have to agree to disagree....

And don't get me wrong... I believe KC planned a whole lot of things. I just don't believe it took intelligence to plan the things she did. After all, she got caught, didn't she?

I think Casey is just devious. She would go out of her way to plan how she wanted a situation to turn out & went ahead with it.

When she wanted to go out that one night, she created a fake e-mail address & message from her "boss" and sent it to herself so she could show Cindy that she had to work that night and needed a babysitter.

All of her friends who knew her all said the same thing....she is a liar. She lies about everything to get what she wants.

She lied and told her friend that George "almost" had a heart attack, or was it a stroke, I can't remember right now. This too shows she's not smart, but is devious & deceitful, and at the same time shows she's dumb for saying "almost".

She had details about "Zenaida's car crash", ambulance ride, hospital admission, concussion diagnosis, discharge & recovery. She had every detail in her mind.

She even lied about being pregnant, "In order to pregnant (Mom), you have to have had sex, I didn't have sex."

Some of these make her sound dumber than a box of rocks, others of these make her sound well planned.

Just making conversation.

sociopaths are on average VERY intelligent people. they have the inept ability to pick their "victims" and have an uncanny ability to tell people what they want to hear. which means, they must first be able to figure out WHAT they want to hear.

i am one of those who has NEVER believed in coincidences. the lots with the names zenaida and gonzales, the date of her birth being the EXACT address of where her remains were dumped... dropping her off BETWEEN 9 and 1... these things lining up as they do are not only improbable, but mostly impossible. .. they just DONT happen by accident.

i believe that (as much as i loath her) KC is consistant with the sociopathic mind. .. these people are so highly intelligent, they make their own puzzles to screw with the masses.. and i find this to be consistant with such.

i once heard (cannot confirm) that in the backyard of one of the above mentioned properties was an old broken down dump/wrecker truck that had the name zanny on the side. ...

there is NO WAY. .. IMHO that these consistancies in KCs story and the actual physical place just happened by chance.

Casey's own mother called her a sociopath.

Julie wrote:It's just so weird. What are the odds that your dead child's remains are found on a plot of land that is their birthdate, not just the month and the day, but the year too.

I think since Casey lived in that house since she was 3, there's a good chance she at least knew her cross street was the 8900 block. She also said Caylee would be "home, by her birthday". Clue? Coded message? Who knows.

What kind of drop off time is between 9 & 1? I could see if she said between 9 & 9:30, or even between 9 & 10, but between 9 & 1? That's a 4 hour gap, doesn't she know if it was morning or afternoon? And again, it just happens to be the ending numbers of those two houses, one is Zenaida, the other is H. Gonzalez.

Lottie, I'm curious did you do the Google Earth, I did a long time ago, and typed in 8905 Suburban Drive, Orlando FL and it is so weird as the satellite zooms in on that particular spot.

I did google earth that spot a long time ago and saw it zoomed right in on that lot where Caylee was found. I found it strange there was an address assigned to a vacant lot though. Usually you just see parcel numbers until a building permit is applied for. At least, that's what my old age experience has been, but new times different state, who knows?

Wonder what happens if you google the other wooded land along that road? Has the land even been divided up into lots? I somehow doubt it! Who would buy land that floods like that?

UH OH! Conspiracy theory alert! You can add anything you want to Google Earth and it doesn't have to be accurate. What if someone added that address for that specific location to have that specific address? Somebody like Casey?

Sorry in advance if I sound like a nut!

I'm going to have to stand by my opinion stated previously that KC is NOT particularly intelligent... although she is devious, conniving, manipulating, etc. She IS a sociopath, IMO.... but that does not make her intelligent.

This article is very interesting:

http://www.archetypewriting.com/articles/psychology/sociopaths.htm

BBM

One myth that has perpetuated in popular fiction is that sociopaths are highly intelligent when in fact, they are statistically no more intelligent than the average person. Along with average intelligence, they also have a difficult time concentrating on one thing at a time and will quickly lose interest in anything that does not concern them. So developing a sociopathic character that has the ability to contemplate elaborately detailed plans would be inaccurate and overdone. Sociopaths are methodical in short bursts and look for instant gratification.

Most any murdering individual you read about in fiction today is a sociopath unless the crime is a crime of passion. But remember, sociopaths are devoid of passion, for anyone or anything. Their primary character trait is self-indulgence and for this reason alone, they make the scariest and most deviant predators in fiction.

Here's the complete article:

Sociopaths

by Lisa Featherston

Sociopathy is typically characterized as something being wrong with a person’s conscience. Sociopaths only care about fulfilling their own needs and desires: they are selfish and egocentric to the extreme. They see others as objects to be used in fulfilling their own needs and desires. They fail to see they are causing any harm and in fact will typically believe they are doing something good for society.

Some people believe the term psychopathy is interchangeable with sociopathy, but field professionals make a distinction between the two. A psychopath is marked by aggressive, violent, antisocial thought and behavior. Like sociopaths, they lack empathy or remorse; unlike sociopaths, they often seek to fulfill their desires through violence. A sociopath prefers to play games and prove his cunning over society. That is not to suggest that a sociopath will always choose not to engage in violence. On the contrary, because their willingness to fulfill their own desires and their lack of emotional connection with others, they are much more likely to commit a violent act against another than most people in society.

The distinction between a sociopath and psychopath by field professionals is usually more based on the (lack of) nurturing by parents than heredity. Lykken (1995), for example, clearly distinguishes between the sociopath (who is socialized into becoming a psychopath) and a "true" psychopath (who is born that way). However, this may only describe the "common sociopath," as there are at least four (4) different subtypes:

* common – characterized mostly by their lack of conscience
* alienated – characterized by their inability to love or be loved
* aggressive – characterized by a consistent sadistic streak
* dissocial – characterized by an ability to abide by gang rules, as long as those rules are the wrong rules.

According to Dr. Martha Stout, a clinical psychologist on the faculty at Harvard Medical School, a surprising number of people are sociopathic. In “The Sociopath Next Door,” she writes that 1 in 25 people is sociopathic. Thanks to such a broad definition, she has been both praised and criticized.

Have we developed too broad of a definition of sociopathic behavior or are we actually creating sociopaths? Violence de-sensitizes in nearly all forms of media from video games to television and movie viewing. Desensitization to violence, cruelty and death may cause a disproportionate number of young people to develop characteristics similar to sociopaths, and yet we do not know to what degree.

One underlying difference between sociopaths and psychopaths can be noted though – those subjected to the desensitizing effects of prolonged exposure to violence retain conscience but lose empathy.

Dr. Stout (2005) indicates that common sociopathic traits include:

* Egocentricity
* Callousness
* Impulsivity
* Conscience defect
* Exaggerated sexuality
* Excessive boasting
* Risk taking
* Inability to resist temptation
* Antagonistic
* Deprecating attitude toward the opposite sex
* Lack of interest in bonding with a mate.

Any three or more of these traits can be used by an author to build a sociopathic character. When writing about sociopaths, one should remember these traits for the reasons of authenticity but also for character depth. Believe it or not, even a character with no conscience can have depth and complexity. Life looks different through the eyes of a sociopath--and it is definitely a life worth looking at, full of darkness and lacking in mercy.

One myth that has perpetuated in popular fiction is that sociopaths are highly intelligent when in fact, they are statistically no more intelligent than the average person. Along with average intelligence, they also have a difficult time concentrating on one thing at a time and will quickly lose interest in anything that does not concern them. So developing a sociopathic character that has the ability to contemplate elaborately detailed plans would be inaccurate and overdone. Sociopaths are methodical in short bursts and look for instant gratification.

They learn early on to be charming in order to manipulate their surroundings. They lie very easily and though some lies are deliberate, most of their lies are unintentional and usually a part of boasting about their lives. Because they seek instant gratification, they speak about the things they wish to accomplish as though they already have accomplished them.

The criminality of a sociopath may well be unintentional too. Remembering that their only intention is to gratify themselves, they will commit a crime if to achieve gratification means breaking the law. These people aren’t natural born predators in the sense that they seek to destroy others. Their motives are selfish and if others get in the way of their desires, they will victimize others to get what they want. They simply don’t see their actions as criminal because they cannot see the harm they are causing through their actions. For a sociopath, the ends justifies the means.

Most any murdering individual you read about in fiction today is a sociopath unless the crime is a crime of passion. But remember, sociopaths are devoid of passion, for anyone or anything. Their primary character trait is self-indulgence and for this reason alone, they make the scariest and most deviant predators in fiction.

http://www.archetypewriting.com/articles/psychology/sociopaths.htm

Lottie-I did some Google Earth experiments, and the spot where Caylee was found is more like 8760 Suburban Dr. Any numbers after that, with the exception of 8905, end up further down the block. 8900 Suburban Dr. is way down the block, near the school.

Kind of blows that theory.

Julie wrote:Lottie-I did some Google Earth experiments, and the spot where Caylee was found is more like 8760 Suburban Dr. Any numbers after that, with the exception of 8905, end up further down the block. 8900 Suburban Dr. is way down the block, near the school.

Kind of blows that theory.

That's kind of a relief to my brain! The 8905 was too much! Put things way over the top. I do still like the 9 and 1 with the Z and G dwellers.

Does anyone know if the vacant house belonging to Hernan Gonzalez was the one next to Zenaida's house?

Watch these:

This is a link to pictures of the remains site that were taken August 4 of this year by a poster from another website. It's amazing how much the underbrush has grown since December, 2008 - just over a year and a half. Imagine how thick the weeds and underbrush would have been after growing untouched for no telling how many years before little Caylee's body was dumped there. It is not surprising that her remains (or the bags her tiny body was stuffed into) were not seen earlier. Not only were the weeds and underbrush very thick, but it also slopes down just a few feet away from the edge of the road.

Remains Site - August 4, 2010

This is a link to aerial shots that were taken of the remains site in March, 2009 when the memorial to Caylee was still there. Just click on the arrows and you can move the scene around and see it from all angles.

http://paarcgis2.ocpafl.org/ObliqueView/default.aspx?pid=302313129000021

Snaz, exactly where on this map was Caylee found? Is it the first clear area behind the tribute to her?

sitemama wrote:Snaz, exactly where on this map was Caylee found? Is it the first clear area behind the tribute to her?

Maybe these maps will help you....

I came across this video today, and I have never seen it, so I wanted to post it. Very interesting......