Chloroform Found in Syringe from Remains Scene!

I think this deserves a thread all by itself......

Chloroform Evidence Among New Casey Documents

Posted: 9:21 am EST November 6, 2009
Updated: 12:19 pm EST November 6, 2009

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Newly-released documents are shedding new light on the evidence prosecutors are using to build their case against Casey Anthony including details about the evidence at the scene where Caylee's body was discovered.

DOCUMENTS RELEASED 11/06/09
PHOTOS: Evidence Images From Documents
Forensic Entomology Lab Exam Report
Investigators Take Casey Tattoo Photos
1,765 Pages Of FBI Exams, Docs SLOW to load
Henkel Tape Product Specs, Supplier List

Investigators say they found traces of chloroform that was found on a bottle and a syringe.

There was very damning evidence found at the scene where Caylee's remains were found inside a Disney bag, including a bottle of Cool Blue Gatorade, but when they opened it they found instead a substance containing chloroform and cleaning fluid and a syringe holding a substance containing the potentially deadly chloroform.

Records show the Gatorade bottle they found was partially full of a fluid that was later through testing determined to contain chloroform and cleaning fluid. Inside the bottle was a plastic pouch containing a syringe where investigators also found chloroform.

During earlier investigators, computer searches were found on Casey Anthony’s computer on how to make chloroform months before Caylee disappeared and investigators found a web page about chloroform in Casey's ex-boyfriend's computer, which he says she could have seen, months before investigators say she went online researching chloroform.

Chloroform can be made with common household chemicals and can be deadly in high doses.

Investigators also found something on the clothing of Caylee's favorite doll, a doll her family says she never went anywhere without. The doll was found in Casey's car and they later believe that it was urine they found on the doll's clothing.

Chloroform is a byproduct of human decomposition, but investigators confirm what they consider to be an unusually high concentration of chloroform in Casey’s trunk and the new evidence released Friday could be the reason for that.

Most the documents released Friday are detailed reports of FBI examinations of evidence (read it). There are also some photos of evidence among the documents (see them).

Additionally, there is the entomology report (read it) that details bugs identified inside the trash bag found inside the trunk of Casey's car and what they tell about decomposition.

Also among the documents are Henkel tape product specs along with a list of suppliers (read it) and a document about the day investigators went to the jail to take photos of Casey's tattoo (read doc | see tattoo photos).

http://www.wftv.com/news/21539718/detail.html

Whoa! Now THIS could be why the DP was put back on the table IMO. I haven't had a chance to read yet but I am SO curious to know if there was any prints on that syringe???

A syringe containing chloroform was found at the crime scene after Google searches on how to make chloroform were found on Casey's computer. I wonder how Bozo will try to explain this one away.

Justice4all wrote:A syringe containing chloroform was found at the crime scene after Google searches on how to make chloroform were found on Casey's computer. I wonder how Bozo will try to explain this one away.

J4, I don't think they can explain it......

I posted this earlier on the Defense Motions thread, but I think I will do a double post and re-post it here since it deals with the evidence, as well......

After reading some of today's doc dump (in particular, this info about the syringe), I have a very strong feeling that the reason the defense filed the motion alleging double jeopardy and trying to get some of the charges dismissed MAY be because after they saw this evidence against KC, they know she's toast.

I think maybe they know there is no way in hell they can keep KC from getting convicted.... now they are working on saving her from the DP. Hence, trying to get some of the charges dropped, so it will make a difference come penalty phase of the murder trial.

It's beyond horrific to think what Casey did to Caylee....the duct tape horror, and now possibly shooting her up with a chloroform potion as well! My God, how little Caylee must have suffered agonizing pain. Since the syringe was protected, there has to be prints. Everything single thing points right back to Casey, the Anthony house, and the car. It's all tied together. She is BURNT toast, no way to plant any doubt. They will be able to prove pre-meditation. Poor Caylee, Casey truly hated her child.

Not that it matters if there are prints on it...but hubby suggested the syringe may have been used to measure ingredients to make the chloroform...if that is the case there would not be any DNA on the needle....if she injected her there will definitely be...could be the smoking gun...fingerprints or DNA would be enough...I'm gonna hope for fingerprints and no DNA, even though it would be gravy...I don't want her to have killed her that way....I read that chloroform shuts down vital organs immediately after being injected...sorry for the grapics....

That's a great point, Dis....using the syringe for measurements. I don't want to think she injected Caylee with this either. I believe they described the Gatorade bottle as "partially full". I'm hoping Casey's prints are there, I hope Caylee's DNA is not....

another possibility, some infant/young child medications come with a dosage syringe. It has no needle, it is just for more precise medication administration.

maybe caylee was used to taking her medication from a dosage syringe, and it was easier for KC to get her to take the chloroform by telling her it was her "medication"..

not that it is any better, but this could be a possible explaination for a syringe.

Yep, you're right Randi......the dosage syringe...makes it much easier to administer medication to a young child, she would most likely be familiar with it. The ones I've had to use were fatter, and were a white plastic. The pictures look to me to be more like a regular syringe, with a needle. I need to look at the pics again..can anyone post those pics here?

When you look at the pics of this syringe, you can see what appears to be a needle inside the syringe cap in the bottom right pic.



I, personally, think Caylee was duct taped and then possibly injected with the chloroform concoction. I think she made her own (based on the google search), put it in the Gatorade bottle and used the syringe to inject little Caylee. After she no longer needed it, she tossed the syringe in the bottle an threw it away with Caylee...

It just makes me sick to think how that child must have suffered at the hands of the one person who was supposed to protect her.

Thanks, Snaz.....you always come through. It is a real syringe, full of the chloroform concoction, with a real needle.....I just didn't think she could be anymore evil.

I think the syringe was put there by the murdering Casey. I just don't see a conspiracy here.

AJ,

I don't think that your thoughts on DC are far fetched AT ALL. I'll tell you why. The state wants DC and his information. AND BOY, do they want it BAD! I have a feeling the state feels he also has some very vital information about what happened too. So, I wouldn't put it past DC to something in that area.

However, I am almost convinced KC did this ALL on her own. So, I'm not sure. But I also don't think KC ever told ANYONE! If someone had any information that ultimately got DC to go there or Kronk to find the body, I think it was ill gotten. I think something may have been overheard at the jail. Or it was only through KC'S wacked out "clues" that CA or someone figured it out. I just can't see KC ever having told anyone. I think she will deny this to her dying breath. She will always want to believe in her mind, that there will be a forever hope she won't spend eternity in jail. Now if she had only, possibly given the truth in the beginning, she may have gotten out in 20-30 years. Who knows. But we know how her psycho mind works now. And she will never tell anyone how, why or what she did to Caylee. That's just my opinion. I think this case is much simpler than we all think. I don't think there was a lot of the stuff we think involved here. I think KC did it, did it alone and went about her life. Period! I hope the state makes it simple like that too. Let the defense try and confuse the jury with all of their mumbo jumbo. The jury will be able to see right through their ridiculousness.

As for the syringe I was thinking about all of those tiny pin pricks on the tape we talked about. Now that this syringe with needle has been found, I wonder if there is any connection. Thoughts???

Justice4all wrote:A syringe containing chloroform was found at the crime scene after Google searches on how to make chloroform were found on Casey's computer. I wonder how Bozo will try to explain this one away.

J4A,

I don't believe the defense could defend the earliest, more simple things, such as her 31 DAYS and her behavior for the 31 DAYS. So, how they will be able to explain their clients connection to the chloroform
A. in the car trunk
B. with the body and
C. in the home (meaning the computer searches).

The only one who links to these three things in KC! What I am wondering though, is, do we know when exactly the defense got this information? It said they have had this information. But when? I'm wondering if it was right before we got it. Or was it long ago and they have still went on their media blitz, knowing what they did? If they have had this information and still made their claims it was a stranger, all I can think is WOW, JUST WOW! So, do we know?

yup.. that is a REAL syringe alright, with a real needle..

thanks for the pics.. i hadnt seen them (slacking on doc reading)..

i think i just had a hard time believing that KC could ACTUALLY inject caylee.. IF that is not cold, cruel and calculating, i dont know what is!!!!

hmm.... isnt CA a NURSE??? i dont know about where everyone else lives, BUT in my neck of the woods, you cannot just go anywhere and buy a MEDICAL syringe.. heck, you cannot even buy the little tiny insulin syringes without a prescription.. and this was no little insulin syringe.. (for the record, i am not implying that CA injected caylee, just that may be another link to the Ant home.. maybe she GOT the syringe from CA..) or.. it could be just another coincidence leading back to CA.. could it be a frame job from camp bozo????

As for the syringe I was thinking about all of those tiny pin pricks on the tape we talked about. Now that this syringe with needle has been found, I wonder if there is any connection. Thoughts???.
Tracey6434

Wow, Tracey.....good point.

I googled how to make chloroform and it is not hard to make, dangerous, but not hard. Also, the syringe probably wasn't used to measure since it takes a lot of ingredients to make a little bit of it. More than likely she used it to retrieve the chloroform out of the container she made it in. Once the chemical reaction takes place the chloroform settles in the bottom. The reaction takes place after you mix the acetone with the bleach and takes about 30 min. for it to settle. The formula is 50 parts bleach to 1 part acetone on one site and 25:1 on another site. At least the way I read it...lol...I am no chemistry major either but they showed a clip on NG of the first site that pops up on google. Sci-Spot.com

Booklover~Casey taking steroids would not be shocking...good suggestion...if not for the sexual side effects and the bulking...but then again, I was still holding out hope that maybe it was an accidental overdose...she could have put zanny's in a piece of gum if she wanted to knock her out...she would only go to this much trouble with her lazy self if she planned on KILLING. Who knows what the testosterone has to do with it..I bet the SAO has a pretty good idea though.

Interesting.....Over at MD's someone said LE obtained a prescription box for Gentamicin written for Caylee. Gentamicin is an injected antibiotic.

Also, I have a thought about the testosterone. I have some serious female issues. So, I know a lot about different hormones used for different conditions. I can tell you, you can easily access testosterone, progesterone and estrogen in many forms. I know after I had my first child, I was prescribed a prescription for testosterone gel. It is made at a compounding pharmacy. So, for whatever reason, it was in that syringe, it is not something hard to get.
The good thing about the state's case, is they don't have to prove how KC got these things or why she used certain things. After all, remember, we are dealing with a psychopath. I don't think anyone will completely figure out every single thing she did or why. They only have to connect to her, that she was the one who DID have them and the only one who could have used them. And although, juries like to have a motive, the state doesn't have to provide one. Although, I'm sure they will present their theory. There is no one else that the totality of evidence points too, other than KC herself.

As for the syringe I was thinking about all of those tiny pin pricks on the tape we talked about. Now that this syringe with needle has been found, I wonder if there is any connection. Thoughts???

Tracey, wasn't it determined somewhere along the way that those little pin pricks along the ends/sides of the tape were from the tools used by examiners in testing?

I did wonder, though, that if KC injected the chloroform into Caylee' mouth after she had been taped, would they still be able to find a pin prick in that area? Just a thought.

Actually, you can get syringes very easily OTC... I have read many people at a few different websites saying they can purchase them for .15 (amounts vary) without a prescription.

I know I, personally, used to give myself B12 injections, and I have plenty of syringes left over..... I think there is just a plethora of opportunities for KC to get a syringe...

Given the fact that there was also testosterone in the syringe, my guess is it is a used one she picked up somewhere along the way. Heck...maybe George needed a little help in the bedroom with little wifey Cindy and he was taking testosterone injections. HA!

Another thought..... since the syringe was apparently INSIDE of a plastic bag that was then inside of the Gatorade bottle, I have high hopes the syringe will contain KC's fingerprints......... I hadn't actually realized the syringe was inside a bag until I heard it from Mike Brooks on NG last night.

I'm just CONVINCED there are fingerprints SOMEWHERE at that darn scene!! I cannot help but believe the State has some evidence that ties KC and ONLY KC directly to the place where Caylee's remains were found. I believe that evidence is one of the reasons they brought back the DP.

awaiting justice wrote:I sure hope there are prints, on that syringe/plastic wrap, and or gatorade bottle..
On account of how protected it was, if there arent any prints or DNA on the syringe or bottle... I can only see tampering!!!!!

It will show me that it is too good to be true to have all the evidence lined up so perfectly yet so protective of KC... especially if someone elses prints or dna is found on that bottle syringe and/or wrap...

BBM

Not necessarily, AJ... from what I have been able to ascertain from reading different things about the chloroform (and ethanol, too, I think), it could easily have destroyed any prints. I am only hopeful they will find KC's prints on the OUTSIDE of the syringe because it was apparently protected by the plastic bag. The outside of the Gatorade bottle was subjected to the same elements the duct tape was.

I, personally, don't believe there was any attempt to plant or remove anything from that site by anyone. I don't think DC knew for sure that's where Caylee was.... for him to have known, it would have HAD to come from KC (by way of someone else)... and I just don't believe she has admitted to ANYONE what she did.... not even JB. JMO.

I don't think KC has admitted to anything either...also, on the video of DC looking in the woods...he was LOOKING...like he wasn't sure what he was looking for and definitely didn't know where....I do think Lee may have picked up on some of her clues...in one of the jailhouse visits she is heard saying....she is "close" to "home"...if you listen very carefully it sounds like she says "Holt"....that is the name of the school down the street....also, there were three pavers near the dump site....in the area that DC was searching there were also three pavers....I think maybe he got the wrong set of pavers...he searched that area several times in that week and couldn't find anything so he gave up...he was definitely tipped off, he just didn't get the right place...Casey would be that careless with evidence thinking no one would find it...look at the way she abandoned her car....she knew what that smell was....this girl doesn't think ahead very well...and she is used to people believing her lies....she probably thought all cops were as gullible as dear old Dad.

I also don't want to think that DC would go that far as to plant evidence to help get Casey off...were talking about the murder of a two year old...who could do that?...even for money...and the payoff would be much higher if he plays it out like he is loyal and trustworthy...without breaking any laws...and they MAKE him tell what he knows....if he turned over on the A's without a fight it damages his credibility as an investegator...I hope that makes sense....I don't like to accuse anyone without some concrete proof...and we don't have that on DC...could be that he and Lee were trying to find Caylee on their own just because they think they are a couple of super detectives and want to prove it...Lee has a HUGE ego...much like the rest of his family.

I think Casey threw all that stuff out there because it was trash and she needed to get it out of her car...just like the baby...she needed to get rid of it...she may have planned to go back later and bury it better or move it but her bella vita got in the way and she got caught before she could....that is the one thing that I am grateful to Cindy for.

AJ, I don't recall hearing the Gatorade bottle was in the backpack. I don't know myself for sure, but I read it was in the Disney bag...

And no, I don't find it odd at all that she tucked that stuff all together before she threw it away.... just a way to get rid of it all...

I just don't buy into the planted evidence theory....... (in all honesty, I don't believe DC is smart enough to plant evidence and not get caught!)

JMO

Could the liquid in the Gatorade bottle and syringe possibly be pool water? I know this is far fetched, but this report discusses chloroform, cleaning products and the contanimants that make up the chemicals found in pool water. I attached the link at the bottom.

4.5 Disinfection by-products (DBP)
Disinfectants can react with other chemicals in the water to give rise to by-products (Table
4.3). Most information available relates to the reactions of chlorine, as will be seen from
Tables 4.4–4.11. Although there is potentially a large number of chlorine-derived disinfection
by-products, the substances produced in the greatest quantities are the trihalomethanes
(THMs), of which chloroform is generally present in the greatest concentration, and
the haloacetic acids (HAAs), of which di- and trichloroacetic acid are generally present in
the greatest concentrations (WHO, 2000). It is probable that a range of organic chloramines
could be formed, depending on the nature of the precursors and pool conditions.
Data on their occurrence in swimming pool waters are relatively limited, although they
are important in terms of atmospheric contamination in enclosed pools and hot tubs

4.5.1 Exposure to disinfection by-products
While swimming pools have not been studied to the same extent as drinking-water,
there are some data on the occurrence and concentrations of a number of disinfection
by-products in pool water, although the data are limited to a small number of
the major substances. A summary of the concentrations of various prominent organic
by-products of chlorination (THMs, HAAs, haloacetonitriles and others) measured
in different pools is provided in Table 4.4 and Tables 4.9–4.11 below. Many of these
data are relatively old and may refl ect past management practices. Concentrations
will vary as a consequence of the concentration of precursor compounds, disinfectant
dose, residual disinfectant level, temperature and pH. The THM found in the greatest
concentrations in freshwater pools is chloroform, while in seawater pools, it is usually
bromoform (Baudisch et al., 1997; Gundermann et al., 1997).

Link:
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/bathing/srwe2chap4.pdf

Also, if one of the Anthony's were using a testosterone cream or gel, residue would come off in the pool like any other soap, lotion or body sweat.
The FBI's labs indicated chloroform, testosterone, ethanol and water inside the syringe.
Chloroform also is the byproduct of the contact between chlorine used in swimming pools and skin, sweat or urine.
We know people will pee in pools when they shouldn't.
So, I'm just throwing that out there for your thoughts.

awaiting justice wrote:Snaz.. what is BBM? lol

I'm sorry..... it means Bolded By Me......

Piper, for the life of me, I could not get that link open... is it me or has anyone else had problems?

It's a 30 page pdf file, scientific data, it took a moment for it to load for me.


http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/bathing/srwe2chap4.pdf

I have been searching for Ethanol in regards to swimming pools...I found this product with the following tests they had done for their product, Pool Marker, a hand held labeling machine for basic labeling of flow pipes, drains, etc.

They tested their labels in ethanol, acetate, acetone. So wouldn't that mean those chemicals are in a swimming pool?

Brother International Corporation's research determined as follows:
What is PoolMarker?

PoolMarker is a comprehensive coordinated system of mounting products and methods, LabelPlates, and adhesive labels which enables you to clearly mark the rounded pipes and valves of swimming pool systems with a flat sign or label.


Chemicals and Water. The legibility and adherence of Brother laminated tape was still perfect after soaking for two hours in 10% chlorine bleach , toluene, hexane, ethanol. Ethyl acetate, acetone, mineral spirits, water, 0.1 HCI, and 0.1 NaOH
Fading Resistance. Brother laminated tapes have been tested and subjected to temperatures of 145 to 181 Fahrenheit ( 63º to 83º Celsius) for one year and the characters remained completely legible. Brother reports that the background color on yellow tape and red tape color faded minutely, but the text thereon remained completely legible.


· Fading Resistance. Brother ordinary non-laminated white tape with black print, mounted on vinyl PoolStickers and covered by a SnapShield, was subjected to outdoor Florida temperature and sunlight for one-half year and the printed characters remained fully legible.

http://www.poolmarkers.com/brother.shtml

Please remember...I am just thinking and typing out loud on this...
It's so puzzling for all of these chemicals to be in one bottle/syringe...

AJ, I would guess if the lid was on it, it wouldn't evaporate..it does appear the syringe was neatly repackaged....maybe it was filled and never used??

Dis had commented earlier on how easy, but dangerous, chloroform was to make. With Casey being miss "instant gratification", I can't see her taking the time to make homemade chloroform. I feel Casey's chloroform searches offered her other means to obtain it.

My goodness, you girls are so smart. Piper, I NEVER would have even come close to finding your poolmarker information. You go, girl. I truly am in awe at how smart you all are.
OK, now, I'll add my, now what seems silly, two cents.

AJ, I guess there are 2 things I have a hard time believing. The first is that, KC ever told ANYONE. I just don't see her ever having told anyone. I've heard Pat Brown and many other experts say, that psychopaths very rarely ever tell anyone. They will formulate a plan or story and stick to it to their dying day. And they will want everyone to believe it. That is how I see KC. I don't think she wants anyone to think she would ever do this crime. She will always and forever want to be seen as a victim. She is still in jail, trying to figure out, how is it, she is not seen as a victim. How are these people not believing ME? She wanted to be Josh Duckett, Tim Miller, or Mark Klass. Except she wanted the sympathy and attention too.

The other thing is that GA and CA, however, twisted, misguided, and many other adjectives we could all think of, I just can't see that if GA or CA (esp. CA, IMO) knew for a fact, and I mean for fact, as in KC admitted it, that they would leave Caylee out there to rot. I do think they could not have done that. I don't give them credit for much of anything that they have done, as I think they are despicable people. However, I can't see them helping KC, if they KNEW, again, for a fact from an admission of some kind, that KC did this. I don't think CA would ever forgive her for taking Caylee away or hurting her, if she KNEW for a 100% FACT! I think they help her, (LIE FOR HER) now only because they are in such deep denial about their daughter being involved. Do they, in their hearts know KC did this? Yes, I think they do. However, I also believe they think she got involved in something over her head, was manipulated, aided, helped in some way, framed or some horrible accident happened. I don't think they truly believe or will ever fully let it compute, that their daughter is a psycho, nutcase, child killer. I think if they allow themselves to believe this, they will both fall completely apart. So, they "help" KC, by lying and covering up for her, when in reality, they don't even know what they are covering up for. You could see in CA's face, when MR from 48 hours asked her, "What if they trial leads to KC did this?" and she says, "Then I will have my answers", that she needs the trial to prove it to her. I think she can only accept this if/when the trial proves KC guilty, that her daughter is a monster. I can ALMOST understand it. I said ALMOST! She also can't stand the thought of being seen as a bad mother, if she, KC's own mother doesn't see her as innocent until proven guilty. She would see herself as the public is, convicting her before trial. What mother could do that, is how she's thinking.

Finally, I truly don't think this case is really going to be as complicated as it appears. I think a lot of the discovery we are seeing is not going to be used. A lot of it is for "entertainment" value, for lack of a better phrasing here. I think it will be shown by the state, cut and dry that KC did this, she lied to EVERYONE and NO ONE really knew her or of what she had done.

But this is only how I feel right now. As the discovery has been released I have had a lot of theories. So, who knows what I'll think tomorrow or next month. I do think though, and always have that the state has SOMETHING, that made them say holy crap and put the DP back on the table. I don't know if it is one thing or a few things. However, I don't think it was just the totality of everything. I've always thought, they have something that links KC directly to the murder of her daughter. We probably will not see it until trial though. Just my thoughts.

awaiting justice wrote:Going out on a limb here as not sure if this was brought up anywhere.. but according to the labs, it looks as though there was no DNA found on Q240.1 (syringe) or the gatorade bottle 238.1.. Not sure if this is old news....

Here is the report...

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:U6Ae3n-2ZFsJ:www.docstoc.com/docs/15087491/DNA-Reports-on-Pontiac-Items-Gatorade-Bottle+casey+%22q240%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

AJ, I started reading that and it made my head spin..LOL. I'll have to try and read it again, very slowly! If that's true, I wonder why the bottle/syringe would be such a big deal, especially in the media. They should be saying, it was found and tested, but no link to Casey? But then again, it was inside the Disney bag and contains chloroform... Heck, I'm going bonkers.

Thanks Tracey, but I have to give all credit to Google! I also learned that many professional swimmers suffer from asthma because of the daily intake of chloroform into their lungs from training in the pool for hours. Also, chloroform will erode the enamel from their teeth and make them thin and brittle...there was a picture of that.

I agree with your thoughts on CA and GA. I also believe one reason the DP was put back on the table is because of the bug evidence, there is no way to dispute those findings. Of course many other things bring it all together as well, paints the entire picture. And I'm sure they have more.

Here's Valhall's take on the Gatorade bottle and the syringe. Pretty interesting, but I can't help but hope she's wrong.....

The Hinky Meter
The Gatorade bottle and a Syringe – Chemical Analysis
November 8th, 2009

I guess I’ll say up front that my opinion is the Gatorade bottle with the syringe inside doesn’t have anything to do with Caylee or Casey. I thinks it’s discarded trash. And I don’t believe we’ll ever see it entered as evidence at trial. But for the sake of discussion I’ll assume it COULD be, because it was there by the remains.

So on that assumption I have to say – basically what we have here is a syringe and bottle with an anabolic steroid stack (most likely Sustanon), and what appears to be Citronella oil (reference the Limonene, Terpineol and oil found in the contents along with the smell of a cleaner). The bottle itself contains of an order of magnitude of 10 ppb (parts per billion) chloroform (unless I’ve done something terribly stupid in interpreting the data). (Please note that is just an order of magnitude estimate, not an absolute number.) As a reference, the state of Massachusetts has set the limit at 470 ppb for chloroform presence in surface waters for the state. Also, the EPA sets the total trihalomethanes (TTHM’s) at 80 ppb. TTHM’s are a group of compounds that include chloroform, so basically this means if you didn’t have any of the other THM’s in the group, you could have up to 80 ppb of chloroform in your drinking water. It should be noted that chloroform is a byproduct of the chlorination process of drinking water. I guess what I’m saying is, the chloroform could have come from tap water in the bottle.

Read more here:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/?p=523

by Tracey6434 Today at 6:48 am
The other thing is that GA and CA, however, twisted, misguided, and many other adjectives we could all think of, I just can't see that if GA or CA (esp. CA, IMO) knew for a fact, and I mean for fact, as in KC admitted it, that they would leave Caylee out there to rot. I do think they could not have done that. I don't give them credit for much of anything that they have done, as I think they are despicable people. However, I can't see them helping KC, if they KNEW, again, for a fact from an admission of some kind, that KC did this. I don't think CA would ever forgive her for taking Caylee away or hurting her, if she KNEW for a 100% FACT! I think they help her, (LIE FOR HER) now only because they are in such deep denial about their daughter being involved. Do they, in their hearts know KC did this?

Snipped...

Sorry, this is off topic, but I just have to comment on Tracey's post...

I agree with all that you said, Tracey. And I will add this..... and this is only MY opinion, but I am not one who shares the belief that KC was giving "clues" as to where Caylee was.... (BTW, those were CINDY'S words... "KC's giving clues"). I think she was being very smug when she was saying things like, "I feel she is close to home." I don't think for one second she was giving Lee any clues.... if she could give "clues" that could lead to Caylee, why not just tell the truth about where Caylee was and exactly what had happened to her. After all, she was supposed to be lying to "protect Caylee and the rest of the family." So at that point, what difference did it make whether she gave freaking clues or told them straight?

What a bunch of BS. She never wanted Caylee found... She just wanted to be this poor little victim mother whose child was kidnapped and never seen again..... She's just a spiteful b!tch who enjoyed playing head games with everyone.

I'm sorry for my rant......

Snaz,

I just wanted to say that is exactly how I feel about KC. No clues, just bullshit and letting people jump through hoops. And they all did because they WANTED so BADLY to believe they had some hope. OK, so enough of that.

As for the Valhall thing. The reason I am not worried about it, whether it is connected or not, is that the STATE has NEVER once said it was connected. It is just in the discovery. It doesn't mean they think it is anything at all. We all just see every piece of discovery and discuss it. And a lot of times, we hope we have something to add another nail to her coffin or at least, bring us to the truth or a story that makes some sense. But just remember, the state IS VERY confident they have their murderer. They don't just want to crucify KC, just because she's KC. They want Caylee's murderer to pay. And I believe she will. Patience until trial is what I will keep working on. But having complete faith the state knows their case!

I find the RX for gentamicin for Caylee strange. Especially if it was for the injectable kind. Do we know why type the Rx was for as I know there are drops etc? Doctors don't usually order injectables for kids unless for diabetes or something serious. I have wondered from day one about Caylee's medical history. Did she have a pediatrician, was she sick alot, she looked bad in a lot of those pictures we saw. She would have had to see a doctor for her vaccines and such. Just wonder if her doctor, if she had one ever suspected abuse of any kind.
But then I am sure it was someone CA knew and she would have covered up anyway. I just thought we would have heard about a doctor by now if she had one.

AJ, I love reading your posts and discussing the cases and facts with you. You, along with a lot of others, seem to remember a lot of the details, that I haven't considered. So, thanks for always sharing your thoughts. They make me think about things in a different way. But dog nabbit, then I get confused and have to re think my entire theory. Geesh!

That this case is draining, is an understatement.
I do agree that a lot of what you have talked about seems too odd to be just coincidence. To be perfectly honest, I am just not sure about anything at this point. As I said, my feelings and theories about the entire case and the characters involved, change almost daily. I guess, maybe for me, I just have a hard time imagining KC told anyone. I really just feel she had set out from the start to be seen as a "victim". I think all along, she thought she was smarter than everyone and everyone would believe her. No one ever followed through on pressing her before. She was usually able to either talk (lie) her way out of things, or exacerbate everyone to the point of dropping it. I think she wanted to be seen like real parents of a missing child and get all that attention. In her mind, she couldn't even fathom anyone not eventually believing her.

If I believe my theory that she had wanted to be seen as a victim, I think that is why the duct tape was used. She wanted to make it look like a kidnapping. My whole theory on the case was she killed Caylee quickly and something easy (for KC, I mean, of course), maybe suffocation. Put her in the trunk, because she wasn't sure what to do with her, at that point or something kept her from whatever her initial plan was to do with Caylee's body. She put the duct tape on to make it look like someone kidnapped her. I mean, after all, that's how a kidnapping always works in the movies. I just don't think this case is going to be as complicated as it appears from all the discovery. I think it will be an a, b, and c, sort of thing. And all the other stuff will just be information collected along the way.

I will keep reading everything we get and everyone's posts. I'm sure before trial we'll see thousands of more pages of discovery and my theory may change. So, although a lot of the discovery confuses me, there have only been a few things I still believe from the start. KC did murder and had planned to make it look like a kidnapping. Something kept her from disposing of the body the way she wanted and when. She had a story all ready. However, she never completely thought it through because she didn't think she'd have too. Everyone was going to believe her kidnapping story and the nanny story. Then everyone started asking questions. What? They don't believe me???? That's how everything went so bizarre. So, she was making the additional stuff up along the way, as she was questioned. And she's not good at it at all. The people involved, LE, FBI, etc are not her parents and didn't just say, OK, KC, we believe you.

I know it sounds very simplified in my thinking. I've just always thought a lot of the stuff we're seeing may just not have anything to do with what really happened. I guess we will see. With this family though, it's really hard to figure out how or why they do anything they do. That's also what happens when SO many people are lying. It gets confusing.

The Gatorade bottle and a Syringe – Chemical Analysis – Updated

by Valhall
The Hinky Meter

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/?p=523

See??? Your last post is exactly what I mean. Those are all things I have never thought about before. I gotta say, AJ, you're convincing me more and more that they knew. That is so sick. I only hope and pray that if this is the case, LE knows it and will charge them after her trial. Unfortunately, I wonder if they will have enough evidence to charge them. Maybe lots of theories and suspicion. I just wonder if they can prove it. The A's may be able to pull the grieving and confused grandparents card just well enough to avoid charges.


I do think that a jury will convict her based on 31 days and the tape match ... even if nothing more is admissable, that in my mind wud be enough.. kidnapper or no kidnapper... NOW THIS I would bet the farm on!

WESH analyst sees chloroform as smoking gun; Orange County Jail dismisses tabloid report

posted by halboedeker on Nov 9, 2009 5:55:04 PM

WESH-Channel 2 today took another long look at evidence released Friday in the Casey Anthony case. She is charged with first-degree murder in the death of her daughter, Caylee.

Chloroform evidence "could be the closest thing we've seen to a smoking gun so far," WESH anchor Martha Sugalski said in introducing a report.

Reporter Bob Kealing turned to Orlando defense attorney Richard Hornsby for analysis about the evidence. Hornsby focused on a syringe, with traces of chloroform, found near Caylee's remains and on coffin flies found in Anthony's car.

"I now understand why the state attorney is seeking the death penalty," Hornsby said. "You have the premeditation filled in. You have the cause of death filled in."

He described the chloroform as "the smoking gun, it's the nail in the coffin" and the duct tape found on Caylee's remains as the impetus for imposition of the death penalty.

Hornsby said the state has a solid case and the defense needs to change its strategy. His suggestion: Argue that Caylee's death was unintentional and put Casey on the stand.

**** The Orange County Corrections Department is dismissing a National Enquirer report that Anthony ranted over news that a play is being staged about the case. Oscar-winner director Steven Soderbergh has created "Tot Mom" from public documents and will stage the play in Sydney, Australia.

"I have thoroughly researched the latest allegation that inmate Anthony was 'screaming so loud' that she was 'threatened to be locked in an isolation unit.' This is just not true," jail spokesman Allen Moore said.

Moore noted that Anthony has been in a cell by herself and has no direct contact with other inmates.

"We stand by our statement that inmate Anthony has never created a disturbance or yelled out while inside the Orange County Jail," Moore said. "In fact, she has always been compliant and cooperative with correctional staff."

Moore blasted the National Enquirer for continuing "to demonstrate a reckless disregard for the truth and unethical journalistic practices when reporting on matters at the Orange County Jail."

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/11/casey-anthony-wesh-analyst-sees-chloroform-as-smoking-gun.html

okay.. about his rx for gentamycin injections for caylee..

i thought it VERY strange, so i did some research.. i even asked the doc at work..

Gentamycin is a VERY strong antibiotic. It is prescribed to combat the MOST SERIOUS of bacterial infections in which OTHER ANTIBIOTICS have FAILED. Clinical studies have shown Gentamicin Injection to be effective in bacterial neonatal sepsis; bacterial septicemia; and serious bacterial infections of the central nervous system (meningitis), urinary tract (serious, chronic), respiratory tract, gastrointestinal tract (including peritonitis), skin, bone and soft tissue (including burns).
Gentamycin is ALMOST never prescribed for home injections. If a child is in serious enough condition to warrant the use of injectable gentamycin, they are usually confined to a long hospital stay, and will receive their tx injections by qualified medical professionals. The doctor i consulted with said, "in my 46years in practice, i have never seen ANY physician prescribe home injections of gentamycin PERIOD"

this leaves me even more baffeled than i was to start with.. why on EARTH was ANYONE injecting this child with ANYTHING? now, i have never seen any of caylee's medical records, but in seeing video and pictures of this child, i saw NO indication of a SERIOUS chronic disease process that would warrant injectable antibiotic therapy at home.

i'm not sure if this is even relevant to the discussion at hand, but i had to share my confusion with the masses.

Randi, thank you for confusing us, too!!!! At least we are all confused together.....

Not that I think this, but would it be possible that CINDY was giving Caylee gentamicin injections for whatever reason???

hmmm.. i am NOT sure where i heard the gentamycin was injectable form.. now i am wondering where that ever came from..

i did, while seaching through the link you provided, thanks AJ, saw where a piece of chewed gum was recovered very close to the remains.. now i am fully aware that this could have come from anyone, BUT i think it is interesting how much the A's (especially CA and KC) LOVE to smack on that gum like cattle!!

Lab Analyzes Syringe Found Near Caylee
Chemist Calls Amount Of Chloroform 'Insignificant'
Tony Pipitone

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The presence of chloroform in a bottle and syringe recovered within inches of homicide victim Caylee Anthony’s skull is chemically insignificant, according to a chemist who analyzed FBI lab results for Local 6.

The chemical was found in a liquid contained in a Cool Blue Gatorade bottle and syringe, which were inside a World of Disney bag that lay just six inches from the 2-year-old’s skull, when it was found in December.

The girl’s mother, Casey Anthony, is charged with murder and aggravated child abuse in connection with the death, which the medical examiner ruled a homicide, though the cause of death is undetermined.

World Of Disney Bag

The traces of chloroform in the liquid received much media attention last week, when its presence was noted in more than 2,000 pages of documents released by the Orange-Osceola State Attorney’s Office.

HLN cable news personality Nancy Grace stated on her show the syringe was “loaded” with chloroform, and legal analysts have called the chloroform discovery a “smoking gun” or otherwise damaging to the defense.

But a closer look the FBI laboratory test results on the liquid reveals the level of chloroform in the liquid constitutes only about 12 parts per billion. By comparison, drinking water can contain up to 80 parts per billion of chloroform and its chemical cousins and still pass the Environmental Protection Agency standards for chlorinated drinking water.

Neither prosecutors nor defense attorneys would comment on the findings, but Local 6 took them to an independent chemist who said the presence of chloroform at that level was not significant.

The FBI chemist who did the tests did not even mention chloroform in his final report, turned over to investigators in July 2009 – two months after he started testing the substance.

In his report, Michael Rickenbach stated the “whitish/murky liquid … could be from a type of cleaning product. Additionally, a mixture of testosterone compounds” was identified in both the bottle and syringe.

That would suggest the syringe and bottle may be connected to someone injecting testosterone – a steroid often used by body builders and others seeking to increase muscle mass.

DNA tests on the bottle and syringe failed to produce any results.

Without any evidence tying Casey Anthony to the steroid mixture, Gatorade bottle or syringe, the contents of the World of Disney bag and its proximity to Caylee may be of no evidentiary value to either the state or the defense.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21576734/detail.html