Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11

Question about table from 9/2 Press conference-

REPORTER: On the roundtable that was found in the courtyard, do you believe that Adam dragged it over?

NEMETH: Based on statements we received and based on a piece of broken wood, that table was dragged over so he could stand on it to cut her down. And the leg broke – the leg matched up with the table.

https://viewer.zoho.com/download?genFile=hdtYj

by Tamta Yesterday at 12:46 am
Two deaths at Coronado mansion turn spotlight on owner


Snipped
BBM

RE: Marriage with Dina Romano

In one case in 2008, Shacknai went to the police station to report that she had attempted to choke him during a fight.

____________________________________

Has anyone seen this police report?
I apologize if this was addressed at THM already.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/25/local/la-me-jonah-shacknai-20110725


IIRC, there had been shared either the PD report or the news story that was current at the time. (I believe it was the PD report. IIRC, there were the dog bite photos as well. I believe this is when she stated JS would not read a bed time story to MS prior to JS leaving? Then she tried to stop the car. )

This was in different links at THM.

Freckles wrote:by Tamta Yesterday at 12:46 am
Two deaths at Coronado mansion turn spotlight on owner


Snipped
BBM

RE: Marriage with Dina Romano

In one case in 2008, Shacknai went to the police station to report that she had attempted to choke him during a fight.

____________________________________

Has anyone seen this police report?
I apologize if this was addressed at THM already.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/25/local/la-me-jonah-shacknai-20110725


IIRC, there had been shared either the PD report or the news story that was current at the time. (I believe it was the PD report. IIRC, there were the dog bite photos as well. I believe this is when she stated JS would not read a bed time story to MS prior to JS leaving? Then she tried to stop the car. )

This was in different links at THM.

Thanks Freckles.

Eileen_Dover wrote:

Wig-o-matic wrote:

Technically speaking Adam did not claim to do CPR. He only said he did compression.

Hi Wig=o - BBM -(and clipped for brevity) Just for the record, Adam did state on 911 he was doing CPR:

911 Operator: No sir, I need the address.


AS: I’m doing CPR right now.

AS: You came here yesterday to pick up a little boy.

911 Operator: Okay sir, I wasn't working yesterday. I don't know what you're talking about.

I just listened to the 911 call again and heard some new things. Below is my transcription of what I heard.

Op1: 911 emergency what are you reporting?
AS: Yeah. Ah. I got a girl hung herself in the guest house of...ah. It's on Ocean Boulevard across from the hotel. Same place that you came and got the kid yesterday.

Op1: OK sir. What is the address?
AS: Ah. I'm not sure. Ah 19... I'm in the backhouse at 1928 something. Heavy breathing. Ah. I'm not sure. Let me call you back.

Op1: OK, sir. Is she still alive?
AS: I don't know?

Op1: OK. Ah.
AS: Noise. What the f***. What. Noises. Talking to someone. Coroner's day. Noises. You're sh*****. F***. No. Noises. F****** kidding. Noises. One or two men talking in the background. Noise. Dog barks. Noise. Then 9 seconds of dead silence. Noise (jet flying overhead?). Someone talking. Ah.

Op1: Sir are you there?
AS: Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah (with incrementally increasing volume-this sounds very creepy like he's trying to have an orgasm.) Are you alive? Ah,ah,ah. Heavy breathing. No. Heavy breathing. Uh.

AS: Hello
Op1: Yes sir.

AS: Did you get the address?
Op1: No sir. I need the address?

AS: You know CPR right (stated to someone on the scene)?
Someone answered yeah.

AS: You came here yesterday to pick up a little boy.
Op1: OK sir. I wasn't working yesterday. I don't know what you are talking about.


AS: You check the records?
Op1: Sir I checked all of the records yesterday. I can't find anything on Ocean Boulevard. Can you tell me what the address is?

AS: I'm looking. Just cal.. just start sending them towards... toward the the hotel.
Op1: OK. I understand that. OK. I just need the exact address. I can't help you until I have the address.

AS: Heavy breathing and walking sounds. 1043 Ocean Boulevard.
Op1: 1043 Ocean .OK. Is she still alive?
AS: I don't think so. Mumbling.

Op1: OK. Let me get the fire department... Sir hang on..let me get the fire department on the phone to help you. OK. Hang on just a minute.
AS: What the f***. Come on. Yeah. Talking to someone.

Op2: Fire Medical Emergency.
Op1: Coronado with a transfer. Go ahead sir.

Op2: Ah...
AS: Got a lady that hung herself.

Op2: What's the address?
AS: 1043 Ocean Boulevard

Op2: 1043 Ocean Boulevard?
AS: Yeah.

Op2: OK. What's wrong?
AS:. She hung herself man. I just woke up. Mumbling.

Op2: Is this a house?
AS: It's a house yes. Mumbling.

Op2: How old is she?
AS: I'd say about thirty.
Op2: Thirty? OK.

Op2: When was the last time you saw her?
AS: Last night.
Op2: OK.

Op2: OK. Is she beyond help?
AS: Ah. well give me a some... and I'm doing...I'm compressing her chest right now. mumbling...an...not too easy.

Op2: OK. What's your name.
AS: Adam Shackner.

Op2: OK I have help on the way.

Op2: What's your cell phone number. Is it 904145. Dead silence.
AS: 90145. Dead Silence.

Op2: OK listen to me. Help is coming right now. OK. And PD you're on the way?
Op1: Yes. We are.
Op2: OK.

Op2: And you're right there with her? Did you cut her down?
AS: Yes. I did.
Op2: OK.

Op2: OK. Just stay with me.

There are several secrets revealed in this call. I'll tell two of them.

# 1 Adam referred to the adress as the place where you came and got the kid yesterday. Since he called on 7/13 yesterday would have been 7/12. Max was taken to the hospital on 7/11 and not on 7/12. That is why Op1 could not find a record of the address for the date specified by Adam.

# 2 Did you notice how Adam pronunces his name Shackner as opposed to as Shacknai?
Can anyone else find other glaring errors?

See the link below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyGs0d2d-ck

Has anybody seen this article lately: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/09/18/what-really-happened-in-the-coronado-mansion.html

Its very interesting some of the assumptions at the date of this article... here are a few gems I noticed on the first two pages:

1. It does not mention Howard Luber
2. Instead of Howard, Adam, Jonah and Rebecca having dinner... Howard is omitted.
3. Nobody seemed to have wanted to mention any pick ups from the airport or drop offs of Luber, although it talks about the others.
4. It says that Rebecca went to the hospital to visit Max the day that Dina slept at home for 12 hours.
5. It says: "The official investigative narrative from the sheriff’s department describes his reaction. He “ran into the main house to get a knife, pulled a nearby wooden table to the decedent’s body, stood on top, cut the rope and laid the decedent’s naked body on the grass. He removed a blue cloth from her mouth in an effort to perform CPR and at 06:48 hours placed a 9-1-1 call to request assistance.” In five minutes the Coronado Fire Department arrived and confirmed Zahau’s death" (five>? it only took them two to get there when Max fell... just sayin').

Agreed, GlarringError. Beyond weird.

Wig-o-matic - There have been several transcripts of that call. I transcribed and enhanced one myself. Other than a few doubts on a couple of the words, all in all the transcripts have been pretty much the same.

Whoa. Now yours is quite different! For starters, I don't recall anyone hearing anyone else in the background. How did you hear things not heard before? Just curious.

Eileen_Dover wrote:Agreed, GlarringError. Beyond weird.

Wig-o-matic - There have been several transcripts of that call. I transcribed and enhanced one myself. Other than a few doubts on a couple of the words, all in all the transcripts have been pretty much the same.

Whoa. Now yours is quite different! For starters, I don't recall anyone hearing anyone else in the background. How did you hear things not heard before? Just curious.

Eileen-

I listened to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyGs0d2d-ck 911 call. Please listen to it while reading my post and show me which entries you do not agree are found on that 911 call tape.

IIRC there was another person who also heard other voices on the tape. If my memory is correct I saw it on THM. Unfortunately, I don't recall the name of the poster.

As far as hearing new things-when I listened in the past I did not use head phones. Today I happened to already have them on when I decided to listen to and document the 911 call.

I was also surprised to hear the other person. That was new to me. Specifically at 2 minutes and 35 seconds into to the tape you can clearly hear Adam say, 'You know CPR. Right?' Someone with a much deeper voice then answers 'Yeah.'

I thought it may have been mentioned before but never pursued for discussion. Maybe others can also listen at 2:35 with headphones and give their opinions too.

My comments are in dark blue:

GlaringError wrote:Has anybody seen this article lately: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/09/18/what-really-happened-in-the-coronado-mansion.html

Its very interesting some of the assumptions at the date of this article... here are a few gems I noticed on the first two pages:

1. It does not mention Howard Luber
2. Instead of Howard, Adam, Jonah and Rebecca having dinner... Howard is omitted.
-- I have not heard Luber attended dinner with them. In fact, I had heard the three went to dinner AFTER dropping Luber off at the airport. It is interesting the NAME of the restaurant, the meals, etc., have NEVER been mentioned. And, there was nothing in Rebecca's stomach at time of autopsy. Interesting but I do not see any supporting details, do you?

3. Nobody seemed to have wanted to mention any pick ups from the airport or drop offs of Luber, although it talks about the others.
--No one discusses WHAT purpose Luber served by being at the hospital nor if he took a room somewhere.

4. It says that Rebecca went to the hospital to visit Max the day that Dina slept at home for 12 hours.
-- I am guessing this is at the time Rebecca's sister needed stitches in her leg? Either she had sister taken to hospital (via PD car) or perhaps she stopped by to pick up JS' car to get home?

5. It says: "The official investigative narrative from the sheriff’s department describes his reaction. He “ran into the main house to get a knife, pulled a nearby wooden table to the decedent’s body, stood on top, cut the rope and laid the decedent’s naked body on the grass. He removed a blue cloth from her mouth in an effort to perform CPR and at 06:48 hours placed a 9-1-1 call to request assistance.” In five minutes the Coronado Fire Department arrived and confirmed Zahau’s death" (five>? it only took them two to get there when Max fell... just sayin').
-- I do not hear Adam reference getting a knife from the main house during his call to dispatch. Does Adam ever mention getting the knife or is this just assumed Adam enetered the main house for a knife? This is surprising as I would think the house had been locked for the night the evening before.

Eileen_Dover wrote:Agreed, GlarringError. Beyond weird.

Wig-o-matic - There have been several transcripts of that call. I transcribed and enhanced one myself. Other than a few doubts on a couple of the words, all in all the transcripts have been pretty much the same.

Whoa. Now yours is quite different! For starters, I don't recall anyone hearing anyone else in the background. How did you hear things not heard before? Just curious.

I agree. This is the first I have heard of any background voices male or female.
Interesting.

Freckles wrote:

Eileen_Dover wrote:Agreed, GlarringError. Beyond weird.

Wig-o-matic - There have been several transcripts of that call. I transcribed and enhanced one myself. Other than a few doubts on a couple of the words, all in all the transcripts have been pretty much the same.

Whoa. Now yours is quite different! For starters, I don't recall anyone hearing anyone else in the background. How did you hear things not heard before? Just curious.

I agree. This is the first I have heard of any background voices male or female.
Interesting.

I had heard those sounds but had interpreted them as muffled environmental sounds from putting his phone in his pocket perhaps while he was using both hands.

The phone seemed in a place where environmental sounds were not registering very clearly, like if set on a table or ground.

Freckles wrote:

Eileen_Dover wrote:Agreed, GlarringError. Beyond weird.

Wig-o-matic - There have been several transcripts of that call. I transcribed and enhanced one myself. Other than a few doubts on a couple of the words, all in all the transcripts have been pretty much the same.

Whoa. Now yours is quite different! For starters, I don't recall anyone hearing anyone else in the background. How did you hear things not heard before? Just curious.

I agree. This is the first I have heard of any background voices male or female.
Interesting.

Freckles-

I invite you as well to listen to the 911 call specifically at 2:35 minutes. I can hear Adam say, 'You know CPR. Right?' Someone with a much deeper voice then answers 'Yeah.' Using headphones help to enhance the sound.

Wig-o-matic wrote:

Freckles wrote:
I agree. This is the first I have heard of any background voices male or female.
Interesting.

Freckles-

I invite you as well to listen to the 911 call specifically at 2:35 minutes. I can hear Adam say, 'You know CPR. Right?' Someone with a much deeper voice then answers 'Yeah.' Using headphones help to enhance the sound.

Hi WOM,

i believe Adam was saying to the dispatcher:

"I'm doing CPR right now."

Quoting Freckles!

~snipped~

'--I do not hear Adam reference getting a knife from the main house during his call to dispatch. Does Adam ever mention getting the knife or is this just assumed Adam enetered the main house for a knife? This is surprising as I would think the house had been locked for the night the evening before.'

Well, well, well. See all the little things that come up when we just keep talking!

Let's see.... OF COURSE THE DOORS WOULD HAVE BEEN LOCKED!

10:20pm we have #1 Dina behaving erratically in the driveway.

10:41pm we have #2 Nina in the driveway not touching the gate.

ALL NIGHT LONG we have the creepy perverted misfit tugboat brother across the way in the guesthouse.

Rebecca wouldn't want any of these three CHARACTERS disturbing her as she ran around naked collecting her suicide kit, or while she was up in the hanging room calculating rope lengths, or while she was painting her nifty cryptic message, or while she was channeling Jacques Cousteau while tying her legs and arms. Remember...... Rebecca didn't want and wouldn't let anything STOP HER! Of course she would have locked all the doors!

How Adam got in to the kitchen in the morning, I don't know.

Tamta wrote:

Wig-o-matic wrote:

Freckles-

I invite you as well to listen to the 911 call specifically at 2:35 minutes. I can hear Adam say, 'You know CPR. Right?' Someone with a much deeper voice then answers 'Yeah.' Using headphones help to enhance the sound.

Hi WOM,

i believe Adam was saying to the dispatcher:

"I'm doing CPR right now."

I listened again but I still heard 'You know CPR, right' with the deeper voice saying 'Yeah'. I just e mailed my transcription with the link to several friends. I'll let you know what they hear.

Freckles... ooops! I thought they all had dinner, my bad.

The article does say Rebecca went to see Max, though:

"It was quickly established that Max had massive trauma to the brain, and he was transferred to Rady Children’s Hospital in San Diego and placed in a medically induced coma. Rebecca returned to the hospital the next day to see Max again while Dina was home sleeping after an all-night vigil. Later that day, Rebecca made several airport runs, fetching Dina’s sister, putting Xena on a plane home, and picking up Shacknai’s brother, Adam, a tugboat captain in Memphis, who’d flown in when he learned of Max’s accident. At dinner that evening with Adam and Jonah, Zahau was extremely quiet; she tried to explain what happened, but said little else."

I'm surprised that no one commented on how Adam got the date of Max's accident wrong. He repeatedly said 'where you came and got the kid yesterday.' Since he called 911 on 7/13 'yesterday' would have been 7/12. Max was taken to the hospital on 7/11 and not on 7/12. That is why Op1 could not find a record of the address for the date specified by Adam. That appeared to be a glaring error.

I'm also surprised that no one commented on how Adam pronounced Shacknai as Shakner. I though that too was highly unusual.

Wig-o-matic wrote:I'm surprised that no one commented on how Adam got the date of Max's accident wrong. He repeatedly said 'where you came and got the kid yesterday.' Since he called 911 on 7/13 'yesterday' would have been 7/12. Max was taken to the hospital on 7/11 and not on 7/12. That is why Op1 could not find a record of the address for the date specified by Adam. That appeared to be a glaring error.

I'm also surprised that no one commented on how Adam pronounced Shacknai as Shakner. I though that too was highly unusual.

I noticed them but because a highly anxious mental state could produce those mistakes I didn't feel like they could be firmly relied upon as red flags without knowing Adam's baseline.

He hasn't spoken publicly about these deaths so it's hard to get a sense of his baseline.

However what I found deeply concerning was Adam not referring to max or Rebecca through their relationshiP to him, my brothers girlfriend or my nephew, and instead distances himself from them by saying "a little boy" and " a girl".

Tamta wrote:

Wig-o-matic wrote:I'm surprised that no one commented on how Adam got the date of Max's accident wrong. He repeatedly said 'where you came and got the kid yesterday.' Since he called 911 on 7/13 'yesterday' would have been 7/12. Max was taken to the hospital on 7/11 and not on 7/12. That is why Op1 could not find a record of the address for the date specified by Adam. That appeared to be a glaring error.

I'm also surprised that no one commented on how Adam pronounced Shacknai as Shakner. I though that too was highly unusual.

I noticed them but because a highly anxious mental state could produce those mistakes I didn't feel like they could be firmly relied upon as red flags without knowing Adam's baseline.

He hasn't spoken publicly about these deaths so it's hard to get a sense of his baseline.

However what I found deeply concerning was Adam not referring to max or Rebecca through their relationshiP to him, my brothers girlfriend or my nephew, and instead distances himself from them by saying "a little boy" and " a girl".

I also thought his performance suffered due to stress. He seemed more agitated than anxious. However, I really wouldn't know what that would be for him.

If Adam was not close to either Max or Rebecca then it would be possible to depersonalized them by calling Max 'the kid' and Rebecca 'a girl'. This may have allowed him to become more anxious since he wasn't as emotionally invested in them or the outcome.

If you found your child in that condition you would go into a survival mode doing everything possible to enhance their survival. In that case anxiety and agitation probably would not be as much of a problem.

GlaringError wrote:Freckles... ooops! I thought they all had dinner, my bad.

The article does say Rebecca went to see Max, though:

"It was quickly established that Max had massive trauma to the brain, and he was transferred to Rady Children’s Hospital in San Diego and placed in a medically induced coma. Rebecca returned to the hospital the next day to see Max again while Dina was home sleeping after an all-night vigil. Later that day, Rebecca made several airport runs, fetching Dina’s sister, putting Xena on a plane home, and picking up Shacknai’s brother, Adam, a tugboat captain in Memphis, who’d flown in when he learned of Max’s accident. At dinner that evening with Adam and Jonah, Zahau was extremely quiet; she tried to explain what happened, but said little else."

Glaring error-

We know that Rebecca pulled taxi runs from her cell phone records. But how do we know who went to dinner together? Where did they eat? What did Rebecca have for dinner? How do we know Rebecca was quiet? Who was quoted as being the source of that particular rumor?

Wig-o - You've got terrific hearing! Have compared transcripts, listened to my downloaded mp3 version umpteen times, and you picked things I hadn't heard before: dog barking, what sounds like Coroner's Day, jet flying over. Whether that's voices in the background, too hard to tell as is muffled.

What you missed but I heard is:
AS: I'm looking. Just cal.. just start sending them towards us… towards the hotel.
So is the "us" him and Rebecca? Strange as he distances himself from the "girl" and the "kid" but now she is part of his "us"? IMO that's a disconnect.

Also:
AS: Ah. well give me a some (I'm trying]… and I'm doing...I'm compressing her chest right now. mumbling [I hear: I'm up to about twenty, thirty now]…an…not too easy.

Also, at the beginning:
F****** kidding [I clearly hear: f****** kid]

I made an mp3 trimmed for the following, tried to upload here but no go:
AS: You know CPR right [I hear: squeak squeak breathing breathing "doing CPR right now"] (stated to someone on the scene)?
Someone answered yeah. [I don't hear this]

* * * * * * * * *

Here is a fascinating article:
"911 homicide calls and statement analysis: is the caller the killer"
by Susan H. Adams, Tracy Harpster
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386/?tag=content;col1

If you read the article, signs of a guilty caller include:
1. Personal possession of a problem: "I've got a girl…"
2. Attitude toward the victim's death: stating that a victim is dead without proof raised serious questions: Adam starts with "I don't know" then later says "I don't think so." He seems to accept she is dead in spite of claims of compression, etc
3. Voice modulation: 35% of guilty callers lacked voice modulation: IMO although Adam huffs and puffs a lot, his voice is not frantic, shocked, pleading for help!
4. Urgency of the call: starts with "Yeah. Ah, I got a girl…" Once again no urgent cry for help for the victim.
5. Level of cooperation: "I'll call you back" - Adam resisted cooperation by not giving clear answers. "Uh, I'm not sure… Uh, I'm not sure. Let me call you back."
6. People who are lying tend to repeat words or phrases: ""Got a lady that hung herself" …. She hung herself man".

Eileen_Dover wrote:Wig-o - You've got terrific hearing! Have compared transcripts, listened to my downloaded mp3 version umpteen times, and you picked things I hadn't heard before: dog barking, what sounds like Coroner's Day, jet flying over. Whether that's voices in the background, too hard to tell as is muffled.

What you missed but I heard is:
AS: I'm looking. Just cal.. just start sending them towards us… towards the hotel.
So is the "us" him and Rebecca? Strange as he distances himself from the "girl" and the "kid" but now she is part of his "us"? IMO that's a disconnect.

AS: Ah. well give me a some (I'm trying]… and I'm doing...I'm compressing her chest right now. mumbling [I hear: I'm up to about twenty, thirty now]…an…not too easy.

Also, at the beginning:
F****** kidding [I clearly hear: f****** kid]

I made an mp3 trimmed for the following, tried to upload here but no go:
AS: You know CPR right [I hear: squeak squeak breathing breathing "doing CPR right now"] (stated to someone on the scene)?
Someone answered yeah. [I don't hear this]

* * * * * * * * *

Here is a fascinating article:
"911 homicide calls and statement analysis: is the caller the killer"
by Susan H. Adams, Tracy Harpster
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386/?tag=content;col1

If you read the article, signs of a guilty caller include:
1. Personal possession of a problem: "I've got a girl…"
2. Attitude toward the victim's death: stating that a victim is dead without proof raised serious questions: Adam starts with "I don't know" then later says "I don't think so." He seems to accept she is dead in spite of claims of compression, etc
3. Voice modulation: 35% of guilty callers lacked voice modulation: IMO although Adam huffs and puffs a lot, his voice is not frantic, shocked, pleading for help!
4. Urgency of the call: starts with "Yeah. Ah, I got a girl…" Once again no urgent cry for help for the victim.
5. Level of cooperation: "I'll call you back" - Adam resisted cooperation by not giving clear answers. "Uh, I'm not sure… Uh, I'm not sure. Let me call you back."
6. People who are lying tend to repeat words or phrases: ""Got a lady that hung herself" …. She hung herself man".

I'm glad you had a chance to listen and compare notes. You even came up with your own additional findings.

I knew I was missing things so I hoped others would listen again and document their findings. I inserted 'mumbled' on the parts I wasn't able to get. I'll check out your findings on the 'us' but reserve judgement on the other thing until I get more information.

Gore used to be in the FBI. I would imagine that they have ways to digitally enhance very low sounds. I think the tape should be forensically analysed.

Wig-o-matic wrote:

Eileen_Dover wrote:Wig-o - You've got terrific hearing! Have compared transcripts, listened to my downloaded mp3 version umpteen times, and you picked things I hadn't heard before: dog barking, what sounds like Coroner's Day, jet flying over. Whether that's voices in the background, too hard to tell as is muffled.

What you missed but I heard is:
AS: I'm looking. Just cal.. just start sending them towards us… towards the hotel.
So is the "us" him and Rebecca? Strange as he distances himself from the "girl" and the "kid" but now she is part of his "us"? IMO that's a disconnect.

AS: Ah. well give me a some (I'm trying]… and I'm doing...I'm compressing her chest right now. mumbling [I hear: I'm up to about twenty, thirty now]…an…not too easy.

Also, at the beginning:
F****** kidding [I clearly hear: f****** kid]

I made an mp3 trimmed for the following, tried to upload here but no go:
AS: You know CPR right [I hear: squeak squeak breathing breathing "doing CPR right now"] (stated to someone on the scene)?
Someone answered yeah. [I don't hear this]

* * * * * * * * *

Here is a fascinating article:
"911 homicide calls and statement analysis: is the caller the killer"
by Susan H. Adams, Tracy Harpster
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386/?tag=content;col1

If you read the article, signs of a guilty caller include:
1. Personal possession of a problem: "I've got a girl…"
2. Attitude toward the victim's death: stating that a victim is dead without proof raised serious questions: Adam starts with "I don't know" then later says "I don't think so." He seems to accept she is dead in spite of claims of compression, etc
3. Voice modulation: 35% of guilty callers lacked voice modulation: IMO although Adam huffs and puffs a lot, his voice is not frantic, shocked, pleading for help!
4. Urgency of the call: starts with "Yeah. Ah, I got a girl…" Once again no urgent cry for help for the victim.
5. Level of cooperation: "I'll call you back" - Adam resisted cooperation by not giving clear answers. "Uh, I'm not sure… Uh, I'm not sure. Let me call you back."
6. People who are lying tend to repeat words or phrases: ""Got a lady that hung herself" …. She hung herself man".

I'm glad you had a chance to listen and compare notes. You even came up with your own additional findings.

I knew I was missing things so I hoped others would listen again and document their findings. I inserted 'mumbled' on the parts I wasn't able to get. I'll check out your findings on the 'us' but reserve judgement on the other thing until I get more information.

Gore used to be in the FBI. I would imagine that they have ways to digitally enhance very low sounds. I think the tape should be forensically analysed.

Eileen-
You and Tamata are probably correct. I think I also heard 'I'm doing CPR right now'. I definitely heard the 'us'. He most likely meant Rebecca and him. I agree that it is an odd disconnect since he depersonalized her by calling her 'a/the girl' in other parts of the call.

GlaringError wrote:Freckles... ooops! I thought they all had dinner, my bad.

The article does say Rebecca went to see Max, though:

"It was quickly established that Max had massive trauma to the brain, and he was transferred to Rady Children’s Hospital in San Diego and placed in a medically induced coma. Rebecca returned to the hospital the next day to see Max again while Dina was home sleeping after an all-night vigil. Later that day, Rebecca made several airport runs, fetching Dina’s sister, putting Xena on a plane home, and picking up Shacknai’s brother, Adam, a tugboat captain in Memphis, who’d flown in when he learned of Max’s accident. At dinner that evening with Adam and Jonah, Zahau was extremely quiet; she tried to explain what happened, but said little else."

IIRC, Luber was dropped off at the airport early in the afternoon. Sorry I did not keep the link that stated the time. Then JS and AS and Rebecca ALL supposedly went to some mystical mythical restaurant. (I think it was called Alice's Restaurant... JK!)

HinkySD wrote:Quoting Freckles!

~snipped~

'--I do not hear Adam reference getting a knife from the main house during his call to dispatch. Does Adam ever mention getting the knife or is this just assumed Adam enetered the main house for a knife? This is surprising as I would think the house had been locked for the night the evening before.'

Well, well, well. See all the little things that come up when we just keep talking!

Let's see.... OF COURSE THE DOORS WOULD HAVE BEEN LOCKED!

10:20pm we have #1 Dina behaving erratically in the driveway.

10:41pm we have #2 Nina in the driveway not touching the gate.

ALL NIGHT LONG we have the creepy perverted misfit tugboat brother across the way in the guesthouse.

Rebecca wouldn't want any of these three CHARACTERS disturbing her as she ran around naked collecting her suicide kit, or while she was up in the hanging room calculating rope lengths, or while she was painting her nifty cryptic message, or while she was channeling Jacques Cousteau while tying her legs and arms. Remember...... Rebecca didn't want and wouldn't let anything STOP HER! Of course she would have locked all the doors!

How Adam got in to the kitchen in the morning, I don't know.

Logical. IF Rebecca HAD been intent on suicide she certainly would not have been running around naked and bleeding all over WITH unlocked doors. Very good point you made!

Wig-o-matic wrote:

Wig-o-matic wrote:

I'm glad you had a chance to listen and compare notes. You even came up with your own additional findings.

I knew I was missing things so I hoped others would listen again and document their findings. I inserted 'mumbled' on the parts I wasn't able to get. I'll check out your findings on the 'us' but reserve judgement on the other thing until I get more information.

Gore used to be in the FBI. I would imagine that they have ways to digitally enhance very low sounds. I think the tape should be forensically analysed.

Eileen-
You and Tamata are probably correct. I think I also heard 'I'm doing CPR right now'. I definitely heard the 'us'. He most likely meant Rebecca and him. I agree that it is an odd disconnect since he depersonalized her by calling her 'a/the girl' in other parts of the call.

I am going to listen again with headphones tomorrow.

I think it is one of the more odd 911 calls that I have listened to.
Adam is very clever.
He says as little as possible in this call.
That reduces the possibilities for inconsistencies between his account and the physical evidence and then another narrative he will be asked to give the PD.

Ambiguity may be his MO and the LDT administer did not pick up on that in his interview before beginning the test.

He refers to Rebecca in the past tense using an idiomatic "to have" expression, which is an ambiguous use of the past tense: "I got a girl".
Got is past tense of have.
Major red flag in a 911 call, when the caller supposedly does not know if the victim is still alive or not, which he says to the dispatcher in the beginning of the call.
He expects or knows that she is dead, or perhaps supposed to be dead, but does not want to betray any advanced knowledge.

It is also strange that he says "I", like "I got a girl".
He takes possession of her but will not say "this is my brother's girlfriend"?
Who does he want to distance her from?
Himself or his brother?
I am wondering.

What is another interesting aspect of Adam's call is that when asked to give an address he refers to Max's accident, by saying "you were just here yesterday....".
He does it twice in the call.

IMO, in his mind these two deaths are linked.

He does not ask for help in this call.
It is clearly not a call for Rebecca.

Almost 4 minutes to get an address?

Tamta! Right!

HE DOES NOT ASK FOR HELP!

Wig-o-matic wrote:I'm surprised that no one commented on how Adam got the date of Max's accident wrong. He repeatedly said 'where you came and got the kid yesterday.' Since he called 911 on 7/13 'yesterday' would have been 7/12. Max was taken to the hospital on 7/11 and not on 7/12. That is why Op1 could not find a record of the address for the date specified by Adam. That appeared to be a glaring error.

I'm also surprised that no one commented on how Adam pronounced Shacknai as Shakner. I though that too was highly unusual.

Hi Wig-0-matic- In my opinion Adam getting the date of Max's accident wrong is not that significant for several reasons. Adam received news his nephew had suffered a traumatic accident and flew in the following day from Tennessee. Which is a different time zone. The next morning Adam allegedly walks out to find Rebecca hanging. It has been roughly 48 hours and quite a bit of trauma for one person to absorb. In my opinion it is logical Adam simply had his days confused.

You're correct that is why the first 911 operator could not find Max's call record because Adam had given her the incorrect day. She was searching for an accident involving a little boy on 7/12 instead of the correct date of 7/11.

GlaringError wrote:Has anybody seen this article lately: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/09/18/what-really-happened-in-the-coronado-mansion.html

Its very interesting some of the assumptions at the date of this article... here are a few gems I noticed on the first two pages:

1. It does not mention Howard Luber
2. Instead of Howard, Adam, Jonah and Rebecca having dinner... Howard is omitted.
3. Nobody seemed to have wanted to mention any pick ups from the airport or drop offs of Luber, although it talks about the others.
4. It says that Rebecca went to the hospital to visit Max the day that Dina slept at home for 12 hours.
5. It says: "The official investigative narrative from the sheriff’s department describes his reaction. He “ran into the main house to get a knife, pulled a nearby wooden table to the decedent’s body, stood on top, cut the rope and laid the decedent’s naked body on the grass. He removed a blue cloth from her mouth in an effort to perform CPR and at 06:48 hours placed a 9-1-1 call to request assistance.” In five minutes the Coronado Fire Department arrived and confirmed Zahau’s death" (five>? it only took them two to get there when Max fell... just sayin').

Hi Glarring Error! - This particular article has many inaccuracies. Whether a person believes Rebecca was murdered or believes she committed suicide this article lends no credibility to support either. The glarring error starts in the fourth paragraph, first sentence. In my opinion it deserves to be filed under myths and misinformation.

Snipped- According to reports pieced together from several sources, between 6 and 7 a.m. on Monday, July 11, the twice-divorced Shacknai and his 6-year-old son, Max, drove his other children—Ethan, 13, and Gabby, 14—to the San Diego airport for a flight to Phoenix, where they were meeting their mother. Gabby and Ethan hugged and kissed their little Maxie goodbye. It would be for the last time.

Hi Lash :)

I agree, these are questionable items... that's why I posted with the statement: "Its very interesting some of the assumptions at the date of this article... "

Although, I think that right or wrong, each piece of information in the article had to come from somewhere. Some of the articles of information are in fact things that have been advanced to the public in the ensuing months... the kids leaving and when, Jonah having run to the gym with his cell phone, Xena having been taken to a clinic... etc.

I just thought it was an interesting look back at what the story was a few days out from the incidents.

I also find it interesting, still, that whomever gave information, omitted Luber, including the earlier pick up from the airport. It names all the other main parties arriving and/or departing.

Lash wrote:

Wig-o-matic wrote:I'm surprised that no one commented on how Adam got the date of Max's accident wrong. He repeatedly said 'where you came and got the kid yesterday.' Since he called 911 on 7/13 'yesterday' would have been 7/12. Max was taken to the hospital on 7/11 and not on 7/12. That is why Op1 could not find a record of the address for the date specified by Adam. That appeared to be a glaring error.

I'm also surprised that no one commented on how Adam pronounced Shacknai as Shakner. I though that too was highly unusual.

Hi Wig-o-matic!- In my opinion Adam getting the date of Max's accident wrong is not that significant for several reasons. Adam received news his nephew had suffered a traumatic accident and flew in the following day from Tennessee. Which is a different time zone. The next morning Adam allegedly walks out to find Rebecca hanging. It has been roughly 48 hours and quite a bit of trauma for one person to absorb. In my opinion it is logical Adam simply had his days confused.

You're correct that is why the first 911 operator could not find Max's call record because Adam had given her the incorrect day. She was searching for an accident involving a little boy on 7/12 instead of the correct date of 7/11.

I tend to disagree with your theory that the errors Adam made were due to excessive trauma.

I don't know when Adam was informed of Max's accident or why the decision was made to fly in to be there for Jonah. I don't know what kind of person he is but I assume he is of average intelligence with a college education.

He was well spoken but made extraordinary sounds when allegedly performing chest compression and walking around the property to get the address. He did not sound anxious or distraught but imo he overacted any alleged physical activity.

How does one loudly holler with incrementally increasing volume ah,ah,ah,ah when performing chest compression? Rebecca was a tiny woman and wasn't even laying flush with the ground so how hard do you really think Adam allegedly pushed on her chest.

Rebecca's arms were tied behind her. Adam could not had done deep compression because her back was not flush with the ground. He must have been pretending by making what he thought were appropriate sounds. It would have been more convincing if he had counted...and 1 and 2 and 3...etc.

The loud breathing when walking is simply unbelievable.

The missing 9 second portion of the tape was never accounted for and imo was indicative of tampering. The tape was not released in a timely manner but was withheld for an unusual and unduly long period.

I strongly believe that the above circumstances surrounding the tape should be subjected to investigation and forensic examination.

GlaringError wrote:Hi Lash :)

I agree, these are questionable items... that's why I posted with the statement: "Its very interesting some of the assumptions at the date of this article... "

Although, I think that right or wrong, each piece of information in the article had to come from somewhere. Some of the articles of information are in fact things that have been advanced to the public in the ensuing months... the kids leaving and when, Jonah having run to the gym with his cell phone, Xena having been taken to a clinic... etc.

I just thought it was an interesting look back at what the story was a few days out from the incidents.

I also find it interesting, still, that whomever gave information, omitted Luber, including the earlier pick up from the airport. It names all the other main parties arriving and/or departing.

I read that story early in the investigation. I had the impression that the article's source was most likely Jonah's PR. However, I don't recall any sources quoted so it was another example of irresponsible reporting imo.

Lash & Wig-o-matic, please check your pms.

Snipped due to quote limitation-

Wig-o-matic wrote:

I tend to disagree with your theory that the errors Adam made were due to excessive trauma.

I don't know when Adam was informed of Max's accident or why the decision was made to fly in to be there for Jonah. I don't know what kind of person he is but I assume he is of average intelligence with a college education.

He was well spoken but made extraordinary sounds when allegedly performing chest compression and walking around the property to get the address. He did not sound anxious or distraught but imo he overacted any alleged physical activity.

How does one loudly holler with incrementally increasing volume ah,ah,ah,ah when performing chest compression? Rebecca was a tiny woman and wasn't even laying flush with the ground so how hard do you really think Adam allegedly pushed on her chest.

Rebecca's arms were tied behind her. Adam could not had done deep compression because her back was not flush with the ground. He must have been pretending by making what he thought were appropriate sounds. It would have been more convincing if he had counted...and 1 and 2 and 3...etc.

The loud breathing when walking is simply unbelievable.

The missing 9 second portion of the tape was never accounted for and imo was indicative of tampering. The tape was not released in a timely manner but was withheld for an unusual and unduly long period.

I strongly believe that the above circumstances surrounding the tape should be subjected to investigation and forensic examination.

We can agree to disagree on that particular portion of the 911 recording. I respect differing opinions.

I want to clarify that I commented only on the incorrect date Adam gave to the 911 dispatcher. In that post I did not opine on any other portion of the 911 tape. I did not comment on whether Adam did or did not give Rebecca chest compressions. How I deduce one part of the 911 recording does not necessarily represent my opinion on the entire recording.

Hang in there!

Don't forget that it has been less than a month, May 28, since the AG has had the case for review.

Anne Bremner Facebook 5/28/12:

In the Rebecca Zahau case our requests to re-open the investigation have been turned down by the DA and SDSD. This was a stated condition precedent to our going to the AG for an independent investigation. We have now submitted a detailed request to the AG.

The DA and Sheriff have been the parties responsible for this extended delay! Go figure!

Also a reminder that in previous known correspondence with the California AG's office there was a very quick response.

Jonah letter to AG 9/19
AG response to Jonah 9/21
Jonah thanks AG 9/22

So even though it feels like it at times, it really has not been that long.

... on the other side of darkness is light

Wig~O...

I agree, the tape should be and should have been analyzed.
It could seem to me that I hear voices in the background at points, but it is the professionals' jobs to properly investigate the case. Maybe it is in the background of the 911 offices. The Sheriff should be able to give you that answer.

If not, it doesn't look like a very thorough job.

GlaringError wrote:Wig~O...

I agree, the tape should be and should have been analyzed.
It could seem to me that I hear voices in the background at points, but it is the professionals' jobs to properly investigate the case. Maybe it is in the background of the 911 offices. The Sheriff should be able to give you that answer.

If not, it doesn't look like a very thorough job.

Glaring~E-

The sheriff misled the public when he falsely reported that Adam had passed the LDT. That makes me question whether his case work was incompetent or an orchestrated cover-up. I would take anything that the sheriff said about this particular case with a huge grain of salt, imo.

I would like to add two more items to the list of glaring errors made during Adam's 911 call.

#3 When the operator asked Adam for the address he answered 'I'm not sure...Let me call you back."
Does anyone else think that was a strange response to the question? Though Adam may have not known the street address he could have said that he was at his brother Jonah Shacknai's house and asked her to look it up in the directory for him. He could have also said that house is called the Spreckle's beach house. She may have been able to find the address faster her own with some correct information.

#4 When the operation asked Adam whether Rebecca was still alive Adam noisily goes through the motions of cutting Rebecca down and performing chest compression. However, the AR report showed that Adam claimed to have cut Rebecca down before not during the call.

Wig-o-matic wrote:I would like to add two more items to the list of glaring errors made during Adam's 911 call.

#3 When the operator asked Adam for the address he answered 'I'm not sure...Let me call you back."
Does anyone else think that was a strange response to the question? Though Adam may have not known the street address he could have said that he was at his brother Jonah Shacknai's house and asked her to look it up in the directory for him. He could have also said that house is called the Spreckle's beach house. She may have been able to find the address faster her own with some correct information.

#4 When the operation asked Adam whether Rebecca was still alive Adam noisily goes through the motions of cutting Rebecca down and performing chest compression. However, the AR report showed that Adam claimed to have cut Rebecca down before not during the call.

Actually the call contains no fact specific information as to if he is cutting Rebecca down during the call.

The dispatcher only asks: "Is she down?"
Adam answers affirmatively.

It's the dispatcher who is drawing that inference.

Tamata-

I disagree. The glaring error list continues below.

#5 When the operator asked Adam if Rebecca was alive he said I don't know. He failed to mention that he had already cut her down and attempted CPR. Why didn't he tell that to the operator? Why didn't he say whether Rebecca was breathing or had a pulse? Instead, he left off the conversation and loudly began a bizarre series of unaccounted verbal expletives and other strange noises for a lengthy period before returning to the call.

Was he trying to give the impression he was cutting her down during the call? Why do you think he left off the conversation and made such strange noises?

Wig-o-matic wrote:Tamata-

I disagree. The glaring error list continues below.

#5 When the operator asked Adam if Rebecca was alive he said I don't know. He failed to mention that he had already cut her down and attempted CPR. Why didn't he tell that to the operator? Why didn't he say whether Rebecca was breathing or had a pulse? Instead, he left off the conversation and loudly began a bizarre series of unaccounted verbal expletives and other strange noises for a lengthy period before returning to the call.

Was he trying to give the impression he was cutting her down during the call? Why do you think he left off the conversation and made such strange noises?

I'm not clear as to what we are disagreeing on.
My point was that the 911 call that is available to the public lacks fact specific information- that is indisputable facts, as opposed to information that allows for inference.

We get one fact at the end of the call almost:
1043 Ocean Blvd.

Therefore it was my opinion the other day that due to the lack of relevant and timely given information to the dispatcher that this call was not a call for help but a call to report.
Any conclusion drawn from this call about whether or not Adam knew prior to calling that Rebecca was dead would be speculation, regardless of the inconsistencies it contains.
This call does not offer proof of what Adam knows or does not know, except at the end of the call:

-he knows the address

He does not even directly affirm that Rebecca is or is not beyond help.

Reasonable doubt, that's what this call is about, IMO.

Tamta!
You are right! Got me ROTFLMAO!!!
Feel like I have been hoodwinked and snookered all in the same day!

Clipped-
" This call does not offer proof of what Adam knows or does not know, except at the end of the call:

-he knows the address"

Freckles wrote:Tamta!
You are right! Got me ROTFLMAO!!!
Feel like I have been hoodwinked and snookered all in the same day!

Clipped-
" This call does not offer proof of what Adam knows or does not know, except at the end of the call:

-he knows the address"

Well, if he ever is a defendant in this case, this call will be of service to his cause.

It's actually kind of like a pair of jeans-
it can go with just about anything.

Tamta wrote:

Freckles wrote:Tamta!
You are right! Got me ROTFLMAO!!!
Feel like I have been hoodwinked and snookered all in the same day!

Clipped-
" This call does not offer proof of what Adam knows or does not know, except at the end of the call:

-he knows the address"

Well, if he ever is a defendant in this case, this call will be of service to his cause.

It's actually kind of like a pair of jeans-
it can go with just about anything.

Tamta - your jeans analogy! lol
Thanks for keeping us on track here.
Let's not forget the 8 seconds that were either redacted by mistake during dubbing (according to Anne B) or otherwise.
And also the remainder of the call that was never released by Heartland.
Actually, Adam's call was released to CBS8 by mistake, which is probably why the Monday July 11th 911 was never released.

Freckles wrote:Tamta!
You are right! Got me ROTFLMAO!!!
Feel like I have been hoodwinked and snookered all in the same day!

Clipped-
" This call does not offer proof of what Adam knows or does not know, except at the end of the call:

-he knows the address"

There is actually a fact (true or not) relayed in the first sentence by Adam on the 911 call: " I got a girl hung herself in the guesthouse." I believe he just told us exactly what happened.

Well, we know he knew she didn't hang herself. Nobody sees a person bound hand and foot behind them, and gagged and thinks.... whyyy would she do this to herself!!! LOL no, it would be WHO did this???

But its nice to have some idea where it happened: "in the guest house"
Guess that's why there's no DNA in the main house

Officers were called to 1043 Ocean Blvd 4 times between July 2008 and July 2011: 2 separate alarm calls were false alarms and no crime reports taken. There were 2 incidents in which actual crimes were reported: a second-degree burglary on Sept 24, 2008 and an auto vandalism on July 24, 2008.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15152188/police-reports-no-recent-domestic-violence-calls-to-coronado-mansion

ADT security was installed at 1043 Ocean. There were 3 children spending the summer at 1043 Ocean Blvd. According to SDSO Nemeth and CPD Lawton at Sept 2 PC, the alarm system was not not engaged on the night of July 12. Lawton: "There is an alarm system in the house but it is not used regularly -- regularly not used."

To this day, no one has stated WHY a search warrant wasn't issued to ADT Security requesting their records for 1043 Ocean Blvd for July 12, 2011 through July 13, 2011. Is it because the owner of the house stated it is not used regularly, therefore it wasn't verified? He knew his girlfriend was going to be alone in that big house for the first time without even her dog to protect her. Surely he cared enough that perhaps during dinner he must have reminded her to turn it on, right? Did she forget??

Geez. The last thing I do every night is activate my security system.

Another thing about that 911 call....

He's breathing heavily at the very beginning... as if he just ran a 440 as fast as he could...
but if he was cutting her down during the call, then his only physical activity would have been liesurely walking outside a few steps, seeing Rebecca, and at most running back inside for his cell phone. His voice is unemotionaly at the beginning. Just heavy breathing.

If he cut her down before the call, then what is all that activity during the call.

If you had to fake like you were surprised to find a hanging person, you would think you have to feign your utter shock and horror. Maybe hes just fumbling around and doing some half assed fake cussing to make it sound good.... for almost two full minutes. A team of fire fighters got a call, hopped on a truck and drove down the street faster than he (was he no longer standing by Rebecca's body?) got over to her and asked her if she was alive (wow). Something smells

Hey GlaringError, nice avatar :-)
That 911 call has to go down in history as one of the weirdest ever.
Adam said he walked out and discovered Rebecca hanging at 6:30AM (can't find source at moment).
He calls 911 at 6:48AM: "Got a girl, hung herself" at the same time he called JS.
12 minutes later, JS calls DS to tell her Rebecca hung herself...

Adam was on the phone with 911 dispatcher for 2 minutes and 59 seconds before he began looking for the address.
It took him 23 seconds to get to the front of the house. Was the back door to the courtyard unlocked, the one Nina never touched? Or did he run through the house and those doors were unlocked?
What was he doing between 6:30 and 6:48AM??

It's all mind boggling..

Eileen_Dover wrote:Hey GlaringError, nice avatar :-)
That 911 call has to go down in history as one of the weirdest ever.
Adam said he walked out and discovered Rebecca hanging at 6:30AM (can't find source at moment).
He calls 911 at 6:48AM: "Got a girl, hung herself" at the same time he called JS.
12 minutes later, JS calls DS to tell her Rebecca hung herself...

Adam was on the phone with 911 dispatcher for 2 minutes and 59 seconds before he began looking for the address.
It took him 23 seconds to get to the front of the house. Was the back door to the courtyard unlocked, the one Nina never touched? Or did he run through the house and those doors were unlocked?
What was he doing between 6:30 and 6:48AM??

It's all mind boggling..

Snipped
Anne Bremner

"She may have died elsewhere in the mansion, and her body moved and suspended, which is more plausible than the official findings."

http://www.examiner.com/article/interview-with-anne-bremner-zahau-family-attorney-debunks-suicide-findings

Does anyobdy know.... Did anything on the search warrant receipt for siezed property come from the guest house???

http://www.10news.com/pdf/29245478/detail.html

Looking back at the search warrant receipt... I'm surprised how many things they DID NOT pick up, that supposedly they wanted to examine. And possibly a mistype, but the warrant says: "clothing or other objects bearing blood or blood stains;" this is the only type of clothing I see them asking to take. Does this mean all clothing taken had blood on it? (eh probably just bone heads thought that form through)*edited because, I see they also were seeking clothing that could cause strangulation.

But they were supposed to take things that could cause blunt force trauma. I see none on the list. They were supposed to take things that could be used as a ligature. They only took the rope. No belts, electrical cords etc?

They also were to search for items that "could cause an injury similar to a knife wound." I wonder if anybody had a knife cut anywhere on their body, like their hand? I mean, its not like it says to look for something that can cause a gunshot wound, because its a boiler plate ... just sayin'

Eileen: thank you :)