Kyron Horman's Mom Plans To File CIVIL SUIT AGAINST TERRI HORMAN!

Curious... The damage.. those you have mentioned,
and the many little kids Kyron knew at school..
Imagine what this has done to them. You know those
kids have been affected and probably some will bear
the scars for life. There are no doubt people around
the world who have had sleepless nights.. I know I have..
My grandson, just 5 years old always asks about
"the little boy that got lost"..
Until my "Bring Kyron Home band" broke I wore it all
of the time and Connor would touch it and ask about Kyron.

She cannot undo the damage she has done, but she could at
least give some peace to those who love and care about Kyron
by telling us where he is.

Terri.. WHERE is Kyron???

CuriousPortlander wrote:

Soprano1 wrote:
You know, this is an interesting aspect of this case. It also highlights what is so rarely mentioned - the vast collateral damage that occurs when parents act negligently (at best). Poor kid - he sure deserves some peace and stability (and a decent mom wouldn't hurt, either).

Hi, Soprano1! When you think about all the people impacted by this case, the collateral damage is staggering! Kyron, James, Kiara, Kaine, Desiree, Tony, other family, friends, teachers...just mind boggling that one person's selfishness can cause so much damage to so many. Heartbreaking!

Soprano1 & CuriousPortlander, to add to the list of collateral damage TMH has caused are all the grandparent's, Dersiree's other son & Kyron's step brother, & the childen Kyron attended school with that thought they were safe in the little Skyline School.

It's sad imo, to see Desiree so angry w/Kaine though I understand it. Desiree/Kaine seemed to have had a good co-parenting relationship until Kyron's disappearance, now Desiree is angry as to some of the behaviors of Terri that transpired in the Horman home. imo, Kaine would have never, never, put Kyron in harms way if he had only known how unstable TMH really was.

Anger is one of the stages of grief & clearly Desiree is entitled to everybit of her anger, but, it seems there were some warning signs. I AM NOT JUDGING, just as in Caylee's murder, there were warning signs as to KC's lies, theft, high risk behavior, but in my heart of hearts, I trully don't believe George nor Cindy thought KC would murder Caylee. In reading some of the old articles yesterday & today, it stated how much complaining Terri had done in emails to Desiree daily, sometimes more than one or two emails complaining about Kyron, Kaine, Kyron's teacher even claiming TMH thought "she should have the teacher's job." It seems TMH was a miserable person & imo, blamed other's for her own unhappiness.

I have been thinking what have we learned from Kyron's case that contributed to his disappearance? That perhaps lax school protocol if ONLY for a day lead to the disappearance of Kyron. Lax sign in policy, parent's on campus, although all the visitors have been reported to have been vetted. Lack of cameras IF ONLY AT THE EXITS & parking lot of the school allowed Kyron to leave Skyline, with or without someone. The time laspe from the time Kyron disappeared until the time he didn't get off the school bus, the hours used by the assumed murderer imo, to cover their tracks, the lack of reporting of Kyron being absent, checked out, or present.

There is enough blame to go around, but imo, Terri took full advantage of the altered school schedule that day, it's not a suprise she incorporated the science fair setting up her alibi that she & Kyron did indeed attend w/pictures she quickly put on the internet. She chose the date of the Science Fair, imo, to incorporate into the extensive premeditation that lead to Kyron's probable murder.

will she ever be charged? imo, maybe not. what would LE have to have to make charges? a witness? a video? the remains? BUT, something w/the remains imo is going to have to link back to TMH. DeDe talking? A disposable phone that DeDe/TMH used the day Kyron disappeared & then disposed of the same day? A sighting of someone seeing TMH dumping something from Kaine's truck? It's been 2 years & there are no answers to these questions, imo, it may be that only DeDe knows the truth & I can't see any incentive for her to ever talk, even if she were to be given full immunity, she would live like KC the rest of her life. jmo.

This could seemingly go on forever.

Everything getting abated based on MCSO's investigation.

MCSO - what are they doing - are they making any movement? Have they discovered "any" evidence in the past year?

There have been 47 agencies, FBI specialists, computer specialists, cell phone specialists and 2 years of investigation.

Still....nothing.

IMO, I don't see how the civil suit can bring out anymore information than all the agencies and specialists have already discovered.

IMO, anyone involved in this case is not suddenly going to come forward and supply critical or even important information that has not already been supplied.

To do so, would put themselves up for potential criminal charge themselves for withholding evidence, etc.

Puzzler wrote:This could seemingly go on forever.

Everything getting abated based on MCSO's investigation.

MCSO - what are they doing - are they making any movement? Have they discovered "any" evidence in the past year?

There have been 47 agencies, FBI specialists, computer specialists, cell phone specialists and 2 years of investigation.

Still....nothing.

IMO, I don't see how the civil suit can bring out anymore information than all the agencies and specialists have already discovered.

IMO, anyone involved in this case is not suddenly going to come forward and supply critical or even important information that has not already been supplied.

To do so, would put themselves up for potential criminal charge themselves for withholding evidence, etc.

Puzzler, I wholeheartedly agree wih you, I too feel Terri is never going to be charged in the murder of Kyron, the evidence just isn't there. imo, I too feel Dede knows a lot more or maybe even participated or possibly participated after the fact, but there is absolutely no reason, EXCEPT it's the right thing to do, for her to share any information w/LE. As Pat Brown has said about Haleigh Cummings, "there are no deals for those that participate in murder." Terri doesn't have much of a life, but she is free, her son is living with her & her parents, they probably rent movies & she has grown accustomed to her life, she is free. Terri isn't going to do any favors for Kaine or Desiree, she gave up Kitty because she couldn't even answer questions, but, she is still free.

I too agree the civil suit isn't going to glean anything new, it may keep Kyron's name in the news longer & cost Terri more money in legal fees & the media may give Desiree an avenue to be interviewed on the case, but it's not going to locate Kyron, or anyone admit to even knowing anything about it. imo, it seems someone stumbling upon the remains of Kyron is the only way he may be found, but, I have always had the ominous feeling since there seemed to have so much premeditation, he is probably buried making it almost impossible to find him if someone doesn't know where to look.

You all know know who lives on boat on Sauvie Island, right?

Who?

houseofhorus wrote:You all know know who lives on boat on Sauvie Island, right?

It isn't me, and since I am half way across the country and suck at researching
give it up.. P L E A S E .. WHO lives on a boat at Sauvie Island?

houseofhorus wrote:You all know know who lives on boat on Sauvie Island, right?

dunno but the real estate is awful high!

http://www.movoto.com/property/or/portland/nw-washington-co-sauvie-island.html

So... this indicates someone who has the $$$$$$$'s to own a property on Sauvie Island also owns a boat that someone is living on? Only person I can think of connected to the case whose where a bouts might be in question is DeeDee.

Come on ... my curiosity is killing me.

Please tell us who lives on the boat on Sauvie Island.

Still trying to figure out how someone lives on a boat located ON an island. Cannot imagine that a boat could be dragged out of the water and turned into housing in an area where most of the typical real estate has values in excess of 300K. Guess it would depend on the boat tho.

Marica wrote:Still trying to figure out how someone lives on a boat located ON an island. Cannot imagine that a boat could be dragged out of the water and turned into housing in an area where most of the typical real estate has values in excess of 300K. Guess it would depend on the boat tho.

Maybe the poster is talking about a houseboat - remember "someone" had a houseboat.

houseofhorus wrote:You all know know who lives on boat on Sauvie Island, right?

morning housofhorus, I don't know who lives on the houseboat but I have an enquiring mind, I want to!

CuriousPortlander - is the water around Sauvie Island condusive to some living on houseboats? I know in my area its pretty strict due to some dumping toxic material from houseboats, just curious.

Puzzler.. I am guessing a houseboat also, but there are some pretty fancy boats ... as in small yachts that are fancier than many homes. I cannot for the life of me recall who had the houseboat.

Tanner's father, Brian Pumala, is the one who lived in the houseboat on Sauvie Island.

Justice4all wrote:Tanner's father, Brian Pumala, is the one who lived in the houseboat on Sauvie Island.

thanks J4A, Blink shared information on Brian Pumala in her article mentioning the house boat.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/23/new-clues-in-kyron-horman-search-fact-or-fiction-you-decide/

imo, I guess I don't see anything that connects TMH to Brian Pumala having a houseboat unless I missed something & that's certainly possible.

art tart wrote:

Justice4all wrote:Tanner's father, Brian Pumala, is the one who lived in the houseboat on Sauvie Island.

thanks J4A, Blink shared information on Brian Pumala in her article mentioning the house boat.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/23/new-clues-in-kyron-horman-search-fact-or-fiction-you-decide/

imo, I guess I don't see anything that connects TMH to Brian Pumala having a houseboat unless I missed something & that's certainly possible.

You are welcome Art. I think that is the main article that got people talking about Brian Pumala in this case. I don't think there is anything that connects TMH to his houseboat except for some of the searches taking place close to there and a bunch of wild speculation about Terri having an affair with Brian.

J4A, LMAO, I guess anythings possible, remember TMH sexting shots of her privates shortly after Kyron disappeared to Kaine's high school friend? Not only did the creep insert himself into the case speaking on camera, he & TMH became fast friends. I thought that guy was too weird.

TMH lost all credibility early on for good reason, sexting photos, contacting landscape hitman, failing 1st poly & storming out of the 2nd, acting out in front of Desisee/Kaine/Tony.

I guess I can see why some might have speculated, but Brian Pumala seems to be a stretch. I guess stranger things have happened but apparently no factual connection was ever made.

Justice4all wrote:

art tart wrote:

thanks J4A, Blink shared information on Brian Pumala in her article mentioning the house boat.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/23/new-clues-in-kyron-horman-search-fact-or-fiction-you-decide/

imo, I guess I don't see anything that connects TMH to Brian Pumala having a houseboat unless I missed something & that's certainly possible.

You are welcome Art. I think that is the main article that got people talking about Brian Pumala in this case. I don't think there is anything that connects TMH to his houseboat except for some of the searches taking place close to there and a bunch of wild speculation about Terri having an affair with Brian.

Technically they are called floating homes out here and not houseboats. Houseboats have motors. There are some large sailboats at Big Island Marina that people live on full time on Sauvie Island, but I just don't see the connection.

Thnx for the anchor. My poor little mind was adrift off Sauvie Island...

Elphie wrote:

Justice4all wrote:
You are welcome Art. I think that is the main article that got people talking about Brian Pumala in this case. I don't think there is anything that connects TMH to his houseboat except for some of the searches taking place close to there and a bunch of wild speculation about Terri having an affair with Brian.

Technically they are called floating homes out here and not houseboats. Houseboats have motors. There are some large sailboats at Big Island Marina that people live on full time on Sauvie Island, but I just don't see the connection.

I get it! I live in La. & was thinking of all the fresh water lakes around here, of course, a lot of swamps, rivers, until you get to the coast.

I visited Sausalito, Ca. a few years ago & they have a huge community of those that live in beautiful floating homes! I now understand that the boat community around Sauvie Island is like the one in Sausalito, thanks for your input.

I too don't see a connection because how many sane people would get involved in a probable murder of a child for TMH? well, except maybe DeDe.

Puzzler wrote:Terri was not the last person to see Terri per the Deputy Sheriff at the time (can't recall his name right now). Terri left the school at 8:45 and Kyron was seen at 9:00 per witnesses, per the Deputy Sheriff.

Out of the mouth of babes:
T Pumala was the last to see Kyron saying he was seen "going downstairs to see "the cool electric thing." I have never confirmed if their were projects in the basement level of the gym.
T.P.'s father is an apprentice electrician who lives on a boat on Sauvie Island.
Terri said she saw last saw Kyron with a male chaperone.
There were no male chaperones.
This is bringing me back to your post and interest in the man in the red shirt seen at the Science Fair...

True Nelson has another article/update on the Civil Suit. imo, the comments are as good as his contribution, it offers some things to think about.

True Nelson, a former Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, is a Portland, Oregon Security Consultant, and sometimes writer on crime and judicial process.

If anyone is interested:

http://trueattrue.blogspot.com/2012/07/kyron-horman-update-desiree-youngs.html

Art Tart.. Found the comments on that page to be most interesting.

Marica, I have been curious as to how this Civil Suit is going to be paid for since the burden is on Desiree/her attorney. ALL interrogatories, filings, motions, depositions, stenographers, experts, etc. are paid for by Desiree.

A lot of times these attorney's do this for 40% plus expenses BECAUSE there is going to be a judgement & the attorney is guaranteed the fee as was the case of my sister's Civil Suit. In this case, TMH has no money, so, Desiree is going to have to pay for this, if it goes forth, surely Desiree would get a Judgement against TMH but the problem is, if a person doesn't have money, you can't collect the Judgement. (look at Fred Goldman, they have chased OJ & his money forever)

In one of the comments, someone shared they had donated to "Desiree's fund for this Civil Suit, she needs $ 100,000.00." It stated "her family had helped her." This is surely going to be an uphill battle as LE, imo, is not going to furnish evidence to Desiree from the Criminal Case. Desiree/her attorney are going to have to subpoena all the cell phone records, etc., time consuming & expensive on Desiree's part but LE did share information as to whom the emails from TMH were sent & some of the vicious things TMH said about Kaine & Kyron.

I am going to try to locate Desiree's page on soliciting for donations to help pay for this civil suit. Because these cases are so costly, rarely do I ever read that an attorney did one pro bono, obviously, Desiree's attorney is not pro bono. Life isn't fair in this case, besides Kyron being missing for over 2 years, poor Desiree has to raise money to pursue the unnamed suspect.

I HOPE she has a lot of friends who have silently contributed..
I would love to know if there is a place where Kyron's friends
can assist. My few dollars wouldn't make even a drop in the
bucket of what is needed, but they might make a drop in
5,000 gallon barrel. Still, those drops add up. It would be so
nice if people would come through for Kyron the way they have
for a certain person in FL.

Anyone have any ideas how to go about finding out if Friends
Of Kyron can help with the legal fees?

Marcia, I think this is the link to donate to Desiree's legal fund, the goal is $ 100,000.00, thus far they have raised about $ 5,000.00.

The site was set up by a friend of Desiree's, it doesn't explain much. imo, it may that many people don't know about the effort to raise money for the attorney fees, this is the first I have heard of it tonight when I read someone had contributed. I hope it goes well.

It may be that if Brunch is successful in delaying the Civil Suit, it may grind to a stand still.

http://www.gofundme.com/kyronhorman

Thank You Art Tart...
Checked out the page and will be sharing it with others.

Stepmother of missing Ore. boy asks delay in suit that accuses her of kidnapping him

Terri Horman says in a brief filed late Tuesday that a criminal investigation is under way, and the civil suit should be stayed two years while it plays out.

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/d6fddc5dee0b4c92a9d2ec07aa9f3a7c/OR--Missing-Oregon-Boy

It was predicatable that TMH's attorney would ask that the case be delayed. Very common in Civil Suits, they drag & drag, & then drag some more. Rarely do they conclude in a year or so despite what Desiree's attorney said in a press conference. The entire BURDEN is on Desiree & Rosenthayl, some people cooperate, some don't, but they have to get people to do the costly depostions, then, sometimes, they are re-scheduled & re-scheduled. That was my experience in a wrongful death suit, this is NOT a criminal suit, so therefore, imo, the judge is likely to grant this request.

From article:

Investigators have long focused on Terri Horman, although they have not named her as a suspect or filed

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Terri-Horman-tries-to-delay-lawsuit-filed-against-her-by-Desiree-Young-Kyron-Horman-163748386.html

Though there is no staute of limitations on murder, LE isn't about to make an arrest imo, they haven't even called TMH a suspect though they haven't seemed to have looked at anyone else, because, the evidence leads back to TMH. If they had enough evidence, as most of us have said repeatedly, they would have already arrested TMH.

LE didn't even have enough evidence to arrest TMH for the "hitman landscaper," though, there is some evidence that it occurred. Enough that TMH has lost Kitty & visitation by her choice as she doesn't want to answer any questions & will only take the 5th.

There is no video of the abduction or TMH driving off w/Kyron, nor is there a video of anyone else doing so either. Everyone at Skyline that day has been vetted, the evidence is just not there.

TMH saying "playing out," imo, is so strange, at one time, the DA said they could try the case without Kyron's remains, but that was before KC walked in the murder of Caylee. If Kyron was ever found, it too could be a case of "unknown cause of death due to the decomposition of the remains," simply, no way to tell. Any defendant could claim "accident" as we saw in KC's case, imo, there aren't going to be charges anytime soon.

I don't think TMH can be made to answer questions about Kyron since she has a criminal attorney & claiming the 5th at every turn, a divorce in which she claims the 5th, I can't believe Desiree/Rosaenthal think TMH can be made to answer their questions. It has caused much needed publicity for Little Kyron, this is a heartbreaking case. Though TMH might not be forced to do anything, Desiree has done a good job of robbing Terri of her freedom & livlihood. She is going to remain under the umbrella of suspicion in the abduction/propbable murder of Kyron until it is resolved, imo. KUDOS to Desiree for fighting for Kyron.

“The criminal investigation and civil case are inextricably intertwined,” the brief states in calling for the two-year abatement of the civil suit. The brief argues that Young’s civil suit is "a vehicle for police to obtain information they would not otherwise obtain in a criminal investigation.”

KGW spoke with Young Wednesday, who had no comment on the latest filing by Horman's attorneys.

Terri Horman Seeks 2-Year Delay of Civil Suit

The latest brief, filed Tuesday by Horman's attorneys, includes three specific claims for relief:

1- Young seeks order compelling Horman to “reveal the whereabouts of Kyron’s body.”

2- Young claims that Horman “deprived [Young] of the lawful custody of her son[.]

3- Young claims that Horman lied to investigating authorities,” causing Young “severe and unrelenting emotions distress.” Young is also seeking $10,000 dollars in damages.

In seeking a two-year reprieve from the civil suit, Horman's attorneys argued that "The burden on Horman of being required to participate in this lawsuit before the District Attorney and Police squarely jeopardizes her constitutional rights.”

Background information on the case included at link:

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Terri-Horman-seeks-2-year-delay-of-civil-suit-by-missin-163749536.html

More articles on TMH's/attorney response to Desiree's Civil Suit, most of them have the same information so I am just including the link. The story has made National News, always a good thing for Kyron's case.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57480080-504083/kyron-hormans-stepmom-wants-delay-in-lawsuit-stemming-from-disappearance-of-boy-6/
__________________________________
In a 30-page motion filed in court on Tuesday, Terri Horman's civil lawyer, Peter Bunch, characterized the goal of Young's lawsuit as an "end run" by Young and the police to obtain information they could not get through the criminal inquiry, and to "taint the possible jury pool" if the police ever make an arrest in connection with Kyron's disappearance.

"It is evident from the statements of Young and her attorney that this is precisely the goal of the civil lawsuit: to make an end run around Horman's constitutional rights and the rules and procedures imposed under criminal discovery," Bunch wrote in his motion. [/b]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/07/terri_hormans_lawyer_seeks_a_d.html
__________________________________
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jgqlXNQ46ml8LES80hwmrE3ufDlA?docId=d6fddc5dee0b4c92a9d2ec07aa9f3a7c

endless links on the story:

http://news.google.com/news/more?pz=1&ned=us&ncl=d2nnOKi2cm8uihM4B0J7a7Ieqo9EM[b]

Here's a link to the actual 30-page motion that Peter Bunch submitted:

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/abate.pdf

It's mostly case law to support his request for abatement, but I did find one interesting comment: "The Grand Jury continues to meet".

So sad that this whole case just gets drawn out longer and longer with no apparent end in sight.

I still don't understand why LE hasn't gone back to finish searching the areas they didn't complete last year.

CuriousPortlander wrote:Here's a link to the actual 30-page motion that Peter Bunch submitted:

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/abate.pdf

It's mostly case law to support his request for abatement, but I did find one interesting comment: "The Grand Jury continues to meet".

So sad that this whole case just gets drawn out longer and longer with no apparent end in sight.

I still don't understand why LE hasn't gone back to finish searching the areas they didn't complete last year.

CuriousPortlander, I too was terribly disappointed in LE, they said, "they needed to search before the rainy season." The rainy season came & went, they never offered any explanation as to why they didn't complete the searches. They have spent in excess of a million dollars trying to find Kyron, but, imo, most that live in Oregan want him found regardless of the cost IF THERE IS a reasonable assumption he could be in the "targeted area." The case needs to come to a conclusion regardless of the cost, imo.

Even though the Grand Jury continues to meet, imo, someone close to Terri is going to have to talk & that would be DeDe. we don't even know for sure if she actually went in front of the Grand Jury do we? I know she showed up several days, & waited to be called, smiling & smirking, & she wasn't called. Legal Analyst said sometimes LE/State does this to put pressure on the target of the Grand Jury. Since GJ's are confidential, have you read anything that said DeDe actually testified before the GJ? TMH's circle of close confidant's is small, unless there is an eye witness that actually saw TMH dumping remains, imo, it still looks bleak for an indictment.

The problem for Desiree/Rosenthal is that this case can be an "open case or ongoing" for years to come, no statute of limations on murder. I don't know where this leaves poor Desiree, surely she was prepared for this by Rosenthal, I thought they would seek summary judgement, or, to have it dismissed instead of delayed.

art tart wrote:

CuriousPortlander wrote:Here's a link to the actual 30-page motion that Peter Bunch submitted:

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/abate.pdf

It's mostly case law to support his request for abatement, but I did find one interesting comment: "The Grand Jury continues to meet".

So sad that this whole case just gets drawn out longer and longer with no apparent end in sight.

I still don't understand why LE hasn't gone back to finish searching the areas they didn't complete last year.

CuriousPortlander, I too was terribly disappointed in LE, they said, "they needed to search before the rainy season." The rainy season came & went, they never offered any explanation as to why they didn't complete the searches. They have spent in excess of a million dollars trying to find Kyron, but, imo, most that live in Oregan want him found regardless of the cost IF THERE IS a reasonable assumption he could be in the "targeted area." The case needs to come to a conclusion regardless of the cost, imo.

Even though the Grand Jury continues to meet, imo, someone close to Terri is going to have to talk & that would be DeDe. we don't even know for sure if she actually went in front of the Grand Jury do we? I know she showed up several days, & waited to be called, smiling & smirking, & she wasn't called. Legal Analyst said sometimes LE/State does this to put pressure on the target of the Grand Jury. Since GJ's are confidential, have you read anything that said DeDe actually testified before the GJ? TMH's circle of close confidant's is small, unless there is an eye witness that actually saw TMH dumping remains, imo, it still looks bleak for an indictment.

The problem for Desiree/Rosenthal is that this case can be an "open case or ongoing" for years to come, no statute of limations on murder. I don't know where this leaves poor Desiree, surely she was prepared for this by Rosenthal, I thought they would seek summary judgement, or, to have it dismissed instead of delayed.

I keep reading the word "murder" and no SOL on murder - the problem is that MCSO said they have NO indication that Kyron is not alive.

art tart wrote:

CuriousPortlander wrote:Here's a link to the actual 30-page motion that Peter Bunch submitted:

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/abate.pdf

It's mostly case law to support his request for abatement, but I did find one interesting comment: "The Grand Jury continues to meet".

So sad that this whole case just gets drawn out longer and longer with no apparent end in sight.

I still don't understand why LE hasn't gone back to finish searching the areas they didn't complete last year.

CuriousPortlander, I too was terribly disappointed in LE, they said, "they needed to search before the rainy season." The rainy season came & went, they never offered any explanation as to why they didn't complete the searches. They have spent in excess of a million dollars trying to find Kyron, but, imo, most that live in Oregan want him found regardless of the cost IF THERE IS a reasonable assumption he could be in the "targeted area." The case needs to come to a conclusion regardless of the cost, imo.

ArtTart, I totally agree with all you said here.

Even though the Grand Jury continues to meet, imo, someone close to Terri is going to have to talk & that would be DeDe. we don't even know for sure if she actually went in front of the Grand Jury do we? I know she showed up several days, & waited to be called, smiling & smirking, & she wasn't called. Legal Analyst said sometimes LE/State does this to put pressure on the target of the Grand Jury. Since GJ's are confidential, have you read anything that said DeDe actually testified before the GJ? TMH's circle of close confidant's is small, unless there is an eye witness that actually saw TMH dumping remains, imo, it still looks bleak for an indictment.

We don't know if DeDe ever testified before the GJ. On July 26, 2010, People magazine reported that DeDe appeared for a brief time but wasn't asked any questions about the case; just asked to return. On Aug. 18, 2010, ABC reported Spicher has retained a lawyer "who has been negotiating with prosecutors ahead of her grand jury testimony." (bolded and underlined by me). Then on Aug. 23, 2010, KGW reported that "Judge Jean Kerr Maurer issued an order from August 20th through October 29th restricting any audio or visual recording of witnesses coming or going from the grand jury room. Maurer had issued a similar order in early August but it had since expired.". Once that restriction happened, we never heard anything else about who appeared.

Links to the three articles mentioned above:
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20405415,00.html
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/kyron-horman-case-dede-spicher-speaks-police-targeting/story?id=11426202#.UBDNHKCneWs
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyron-Horman-grand-jury-meets-again-101339004.html

The problem for Desiree/Rosenthal is that this case can be an "open case or ongoing" for years to come, no statute of limations on murder. I don't know where this leaves poor Desiree, surely she was prepared for this by Rosenthal, I thought they would seek summary judgement, or, to have it dismissed instead of delayed.

I hear you. My heart just breaks for her. She's doing everything she can, but her hands are tied.

Puzzler wrote:

art tart wrote:
CuriousPortlander, I too was terribly disappointed in LE, they said, "they needed to search before the rainy season." The rainy season came & went, they never offered any explanation as to why they didn't complete the searches. They have spent in excess of a million dollars trying to find Kyron, but, imo, most that live in Oregan want him found regardless of the cost IF THERE IS a reasonable assumption he could be in the "targeted area." The case needs to come to a conclusion regardless of the cost, imo.

Even though the Grand Jury continues to meet, imo, someone close to Terri is going to have to talk & that would be DeDe. we don't even know for sure if she actually went in front of the Grand Jury do we? I know she showed up several days, & waited to be called, smiling & smirking, & she wasn't called. Legal Analyst said sometimes LE/State does this to put pressure on the target of the Grand Jury. Since GJ's are confidential, have you read anything that said DeDe actually testified before the GJ? TMH's circle of close confidant's is small, unless there is an eye witness that actually saw TMH dumping remains, imo, it still looks bleak for an indictment.

The problem for Desiree/Rosenthal is that this case can be an "open case or ongoing" for years to come, no statute of limations on murder. I don't know where this leaves poor Desiree, surely she was prepared for this by Rosenthal, I thought they would seek summary judgement, or, to have it dismissed instead of delayed.

I keep reading the word "murder" and no SOL on murder - the problem is that MCSO said they have NO indication that Kyron is not alive.

Good point, Puzzler. I have no legal background, but I looked up other statutes of limitation in Oregon for other possible related crimes, and what I found disturbs me. Without wading through all the legal stuff, what stuck out the most was:

Criminal: Kidnapping, 3 years
Civil: Wrongful Death, 3 years

Source: http://research.lawyers.com/Oregon/Oregon-Statutes-of-Limitations.html (click on the Or. Rev. Stat. link next to each description for the legal jargon/details)

We're already past the 2-year date; the clocks ticking. Oh, this is so depressing! I had no idea these SOLs were so short.

I keep going back to the comment Sheriff Staton made in Sept. 2010: "When asked if people would be shocked to find out what they know, Staton took a long silence. "I know I'm taking a long pause on that, I have to think through that answer. I think there are things that come out of this investigation that will surprise you, that you'll think about later on when it's over. We have a knowledge of things we don't want to know about ... of things we wish we didn't know," he added." Source: http://www.kgw.com/news/Sheriff-No-evidence-Kyron-Horman-is-not-alive-103003704.html

I didn't find anything specific to human trafficking or things like that, and I'm way too tired to muddle through the details, so if anyone finds something that contradicts what I found, please share!

Puzzler shared:
I keep reading the word "murder" and no SOL on murder - the problem is that MCSO said they have NO indication that Kyron is not alive.

Puzzler, despite the limited information LE has shared in Kyron's case to the public, the most important information that the public has gleaned is from Desiree & Kaine in interviews where they have shared information that LE has shared w/them. There is no crime scene & there are no recovered remains, but that doesn't mean Kyron is alive, they don't even have enough evidence to call Terri a "suspect or POI" yet the Grand Jury is on going & she is the target of the Grand Jury, she remains the unnamed suspect & the ONLY POI. I am so underwhelmed w/LE in Kyron's case, I have no expectations from LE & I don't expect them to share truthful information w/the public, they have shared very little information at all. imo, if this case is ever resolved, it will be solely because someone talked. LE's investigation & the search for the recovery of remains, the Grand Jury continuing to remain open w/TMH as the focus of the Grand Jury indicate that the liklihood of Kyron being alive is not probable, inspite of anything LE says to the public, their actions don't support they think Kyron is alive.

Around Thanksgiving 2010, Desiree stated in several interviews that "information LE shared w/her on Kyron's case she felt Kyron was no longer alive." She too stated "how glad & hopeful she was that it had gotten warmer so the targeted search areas could be searched as she had waited several months for this to happen & hopefully Kyron would be found." The interviews of Desiree crying & admitting she "didn't think Kyron was alive" were gut wrenching & painful to watch, I am sure the very last thing Desiree wanted to share. LE too stated in the initial searches of 2 of these areas they "had a tip & were hopeful Kyron would be found." There are still I think 2 areas left to search, ALL of these searches are for recovery of remains, there hasn't been a search for a live Kyron since the first few days of his disappearance that I know of, all the searches have focused on the recovery of remains. LE has said very little since they stated in the searches of the "targeted search areas they hoped to recover Kyron."

Kaine has shared in an interview that it could be years before this case is resolved & possibly no one might ever be charged. imo, Kaine is realistic enough to understand that LE just doesn't have enough evidence to bring charges now, or maybe ever. As parent's, I, like Desiree & Kaine & most parent's would never quit looking for their child, & even if I had facts from LE that my child was most likely deceased, my heart would continue to long & pray for a live child. Children as old as Kyron or Isabella Celis rarely go home alive, they are old enough to describe their abductor & call home, LE doesn't have to say Kyron is deceased, they have informed Kyron's parent's of their findings, LE's actions don't support that they think Kyron is alive regardless of what they don't tell the public.

CuriousPortlander wrote:

Puzzler wrote:

I keep reading the word "murder" and no SOL on murder - the problem is that MCSO said they have NO indication that Kyron is not alive.

Good point, Puzzler. I have no legal background, but I looked up other statutes of limitation in Oregon for other possible related crimes, and what I found disturbs me. Without wading through all the legal stuff, what stuck out the most was:

Criminal: Kidnapping, 3 years
Civil: Wrongful Death, 3 years

Source: http://research.lawyers.com/Oregon/Oregon-Statutes-of-Limitations.html (click on the Or. Rev. Stat. link next to each description for the legal jargon/details)

We're already past the 2-year date; the clocks ticking. Oh, this is so depressing! I had no idea these SOLs were so short.

I keep going back to the comment Sheriff Staton made in Sept. 2010: "When asked if people would be shocked to find out what they know, Staton took a long silence. "I know I'm taking a long pause on that, I have to think through that answer. I think there are things that come out of this investigation that will surprise you, that you'll think about later on when it's over. We have a knowledge of things we don't want to know about ... of things we wish we didn't know," he added." Source: http://www.kgw.com/news/Sheriff-No-evidence-Kyron-Horman-is-not-alive-103003704.html

I didn't find anything specific to human trafficking or things like that, and I'm way too tired to muddle through the details, so if anyone finds something that contradicts what I found, please share!

Art - TY for this information:

Statutes of limitation in Oregon -
Criminal: Kidnapping, 3 years
Civil: Wrongful Death, 3 years

Hard to believe, but that 3rd year is in the works now. I can see why Desiree filed her civil suit at this point....before the 3 year deadline on kidnapping and wrongful death.

I wish I had a more hopeful thought for Desiree and this lawsuit, but going on my instincts, it doesn't seem likely that this law suit will go very far. If the judge agrees to the two-year abatement for Terri, then there goes the 3-years....and, I seriously doubt any other witness would come forward with any information that MCSO doesn't already have. I mean...if LE or GJ has interviewed any witness and that witness then gives information in depositions for the civil suit that discloses more they disclosed in the criminal investigation - then that witness would put themselves in jeopardy of being charge with a crime; i.e., withholding evidence, lying to police, obstructing justice, etc.

Missing Oregon child Kyron Horman breaks new legal ground!
By seancruz | Posted 22 hours ago | portland, Oregon

Recent civil court filings in the case of Kyron Horman, the 7-year old Portland boy who vanished more than two years ago, are significant far beyond the case itself. This case is establishing legal precedent with every filing

These filings are the first under Oregon’s landmark child abduction statute, Senate Bill 1041, known as “Aaron’s Law”, which provides child abduction victims with new tools where the criminal and family law systems are unable to move forward, and yet there is a missing child.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-823006?ref=feeds%2Flatest

Kyron Horman's mother fights two-year civil lawsuit delay
Posted on August 2, 2012 at 12:49 PM Updated today at 2:18 PM

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kyron-Hormans-mother-fights-lawsuit-delay-164788256.html

Snipped:

"Desiree Young says in a motion to be filed in court on Thursday that Terri Horman should not be allowed to delay Young's suit by two years.

"She (Young) believes the defendant (Horman) is responsible for the disappearance of her son, and is entitled--under both the United State and Oregon Constitutions--to pursue these claims in a timely manner," the motion reads."

Here's the link to Desiree's actual motion:

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Motion+to+Abate+-+Response+and+Decl+8-2-12.pdf

On KGW tonight, a local legal analyst said she makes some good arguments in this motion.

CuriousPortlander, thanks for the links, it is unreasonable, imo, for Desiree & Kaine to have to wait 2 yrs.. for answers to questions they need in order to look for Kyron, TMH's rights have been the most important, it irks me to death!

Basically, I guess they are waiting on LE to make their case, but, if tips aren't coming in & searches aren't being conducted, how can the case move forward? The sad fact is LE might never bring charges against TMH if the DA can't convict her. LE isn't conducting searches, imo, very few tips are coming in after 2 yrs., the case has lost momentum it seems & growing colder. So, after 2 yrs., then what?

If Bunch isn't successful in delaying the case for 2 yrs., I guess TMH can still plead the 5th at every opportunity as she doesn't have to incriminate herself & that still doesn't get Desiree the must needed answers she is seeking. I am so frustrated with this case, I just wish LE would do something, anything, indicating they are still searching for Kyron.

art tart wrote:CuriousPortlander, thanks for the links, it is unreasonable, imo, for Desiree & Kaine to have to wait 2 yrs.. for answers to questions they need in order to look for Kyron, TMH's rights have been the most important, it irks me to death!

Basically, I guess they are waiting on LE to make their case, but, if tips aren't coming in & searches aren't being conducted, how can the case move forward? The sad fact is LE might never bring charges against TMH if the DA can't convict her. LE isn't conducting searches, imo, very few tips are coming in after 2 yrs., the case has lost momentum it seems & growing colder. So, after 2 yrs., then what?

If Bunch isn't successful in delaying the case for 2 yrs., I guess TMH can still plead the 5th at every opportunity as she doesn't have to incriminate herself & that still doesn't get Desiree the must needed answers she is seeking. I am so frustrated with this case, I just wish LE would do something, anything, indicating they are still searching for Kyron.

I know, Art Tart, I hear you. We're all frustrated! It sure seems at times that the suspects/POIs have more rights than anyone else. And it doesn't appear that they will ever file charges against TMH; if they don't have enough evidence by now, I doubt they'll find more anytime soon. I don't understand why the Sheriff's office hasn't commented on the searches and why they've not done any in the past year.

If the judge decides to let this civil case move forward, they can then subpoena various people besides TMH (DDS, JM, etc.). Especially if they can depose her son before he heads off to the military. Maybe they could get some info out of others that would help resolve the civil case and give KH and DY some answers (just probably not "beyond a reasonable doubt").

I read the whole motion, and they're basically saying the case has gone cold, and that since TMH hasn't yet asserted her fifth amendment rights, her rights aren't being compromised. I think including the article about the task force being disbanded says a lot. It says that the task force will be reformed if something breaks, and we all know neither of those two things have happened.

What I find really interesting in the motion is the statement that one argument against abatement is "the interest of the public." That the public has a "legitimate interest in learning the fate of Kyron". First time I've ever seen that in a court document!

Let's hope the legal analyst was right in that they made good, strong arguments against abatement. Guess we'll find out in a few weeks.

H E A R I N G this morning in Civil Suit!

A judge will hear arguments Wednesday morning on whether to delay a civil lawsuit filed by a missing boy's biological mother against the boy's stepmother.

The lawsuit by Desiree Young came nearly two years to the day after Kyron Horman went missing.

Horman has asked for a two-year delay to let a criminal investigation play out. Investigators have long focused on Horman, although they have not named her as a suspect or filed criminal charges.

http://www.nwcn.com/home/?fId=166253236&fPath=/news/local&fDomain=10202

Kyron Horman mom's civil suit can go forward against stepmom, judge says

Published: Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 10:07 AM Judge

Henry Kantor issued his decision after hearing 30 minutes of testimony. He said a deposition of Horman's son can go forward Thursday before his planned military service is set to begin late this month.

"There is no case like this -- even close to these circumstances," Kantor said.

Kantor, though, said he would issue a formal written ruling that could include some "partial relief" or protections for the defendant.

"I'm looking forward to going forward," Young said after the hearing. "I'm excited by this." Judge Henry Kantor issued his decision after hearing 30 minutes of testimony. He said a deposition of Horman's son can go forward Thursday before his planned military service is set to begin late this month.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/08/kyron_horman_moms_suit_can_go.html

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Hearing-today-on-Kyron-civil-suit-delay-request-166253236.html

http://www.kptv.com/story/19282839/kyron-hormans-mom-seeks-to-avoid-lawsuit-delay

Bunches failed argument on behalf of TMH:

Horman asked for a two-year delay to let a criminal investigation play out. Investigators have long focused on Horman, although they have not named her as a suspect or filed criminal charges.

Peter Bunch, Horman's civil lawyer, argued Wednesday that the civil suit cannot move forward while there's an ongoing criminal investigation into Kyron's disappearance. He said interviews were still being conducted in California and elsewhere.
_________________________

JUSTICE for Kyron, little man, mama's going to take care of Terri for you! Though it may take years, it's going to happen, your coming home one way or another.

Meanwhile, Desiree/Kaine keeps the pressure on TMH, she may never be convicted or even charged, BUT, imo, Desiree/Kaine will make sure she has no quality of life, little joy, no money, just like KC, she will be hated by most American's!

No Kiara for years & years TMH, Kaine is relentless as well in protecting her, all you have to do is just answer a few questions & this can all be over!

I fully expect TMH's SON TO LIE at any cost to protect TMH! This is a great day for 2 parent's that have been held hostage, imo, by the legal system, not enough evidence to charge TMH for the disappearance/probable murder of Kyron, & unable to even get her to answer a few questions BECAUSE her RIGHTS ARE PROTECTED! Today, Kyron had some rights too!

Shout out to Bunch, your tired ole argument didn't work today on behalf of Terri, the heat is on! Guess James, TMH's son needs his own attorney now! whose gonna pay for that costly adventure? Grandparent's? Since they refinanced their home to the tune of $ 165,000.00, they too are probably tapped out by Terri. No money, no earning potential, for TMH, & NO property settlement from Kaine UNTIL you can answer his attorney's questions without pleading the fifth.

More on Today's Ruling:

The Multnomah County District Attorneys Office is investigating Terri for her role in the disappearance. A grand jury has taken testimony in the case but not issued any indictments.

Terri's attorney, criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze, argued the suit should be delayed to protect her rights.

Kantor said the two-year delay sought by Terri wouldn't serve any purpose, however.

http://portlandtribune.com/pt-rss/9-news/113609-judge-rules-horman-civil-suit-can-proceed

art tart wrote:Kyron Horman mom's civil suit can go forward against stepmom, judge says

Published: Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 10:07 AM Judge

Henry Kantor issued his decision after hearing 30 minutes of testimony. He said a deposition of Horman's son can go forward Thursday before his planned military service is set to begin late this month.

"There is no case like this -- even close to these circumstances," Kantor said.

Kantor, though, said he would issue a formal written ruling that could include some "partial relief" or protections for the defendant.

"I'm looking forward to going forward," Young said after the hearing. "I'm excited by this." Judge Henry Kantor issued his decision after hearing 30 minutes of testimony. He said a deposition of Horman's son can go forward Thursday before his planned military service is set to begin late this month.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/08/kyron_horman_moms_suit_can_go.html

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Hearing-today-on-Kyron-civil-suit-delay-request-166253236.html

http://www.kptv.com/story/19282839/kyron-hormans-mom-seeks-to-avoid-lawsuit-delay

Bunches failed argument on behalf of TMH:

Horman asked for a two-year delay to let a criminal investigation play out. Investigators have long focused on Horman, although they have not named her as a suspect or filed criminal charges.

Peter Bunch, Horman's civil lawyer, argued Wednesday that the civil suit cannot move forward while there's an ongoing criminal investigation into Kyron's disappearance. He said interviews were still being conducted in California and elsewhere.
(bolded by me)
(snipped for space)

This is great news! I'm sure Desiree is thrilled to have some movement in this case.

I wonder who they are interviewing in California. Relatives of TMH?

Judge denies delay of Kyron Horman civil case
Posted on August 15, 2012 at 12:47 PM

http://www.kgw.com/news/Hearing-today-on-Kyron-civil-suit-delay-request-166253236.html

Snipped:
"This is an active investigation, with a laser pointed at my client," Bunch said. "Anything she says--exculpatory or not--can be used by the prosecution in the civil case."

Let's hope so!

Kyron Horman's father: 'Growing evidence' against Terri
Posted on August 15, 2012 at 3:23 PM Updated today at 4:29 PM

http://www.kgw.com/news/Hearing-today-on-Kyron-civil-suit-delay-request-166253236.html

Snipped:

"Kyron's father Kaine Horman said police have growing evidence against Terri.

"It's significantly strengthened their belief that she had involvement in the situation.""