How Long did the Perp Feel He/She had, B4 a Massive Hunt wud Ensue?

I have been wondering this...

Whoever took Kyron, must have felt some pressure. It wud have had to be a thought as to how long it wud take before LE were driving thru town with their sirens and how long before ppl were out looking all over the place for this little boy who vanished..

In other words, you wud think that it had to be a concern. If the perp, knew that it appeared no one saw them leaving the school yard, (with Kyron..either on foot or vehicle) ..it must have been a thought as to how long before Kyrons parents wud be notifoed and the emergency crews were out, as well as when a potential amber alert wud be up and running..

I am assuming that whp ever took Kyron, wud have predicted that his disappearance wud be known relatively quick ...

Thoughts?

I think a perp would feel he had an hour at the most, but possibly as little as a half hour. They definitely wouldn't be expecting a six hour window. I would expect a teacher or another student to notice Kyron missing within 10 minutes. The teacher might think he's in the bathroom, give him a couple minutes, and then send a boy student to check.

I would then expect the teacher to notify the office which would then probably do a PA announcement asking Kyron to report to his room or to the office. The office would also probably have staff split up and search the school for him. They might check the gym, restrooms, and all the different rooms with science fair projects set up.

If they didn't find Kyron within 10 minutes, they would probably then call police. Police would probably show up within 10 minutes of being called, interview a few people, do their own search, and then send out an alert for other LE and emergency crews to be on the lookout for him. Unfortunately an Amber alert probably wouldn't have been issued, because in many cases they won't issue one without a name and description of a suspect.

I so agree J4A..... which brings me to this conclusion...

Whoever took him, probably wud have thought from the time they grabbed him, or got him in their car (even willingly)...

anyone (inclu T D or K ) wud have predicted they had about maybe 20 or 30 minutes of time, to get out of dogde...

If it was a monster pig (one who noone wud have suspected/knew, or a monster that felt he wud not have been the one who LE were immediatley going to look for..) then the monster/perp wud have prolly knew he had about 20 or 30 minutes to take Kyron out of that neighborhood.. Once he was away from the school, he wud have wondered if anyone cud have identified him, and maybe came looking ...

The perp, may have seen someone who saw him. This person may not have even recollected it, but we can safely assume that the monster, whoever it was, was seen someshere in the vacicinity of the schhol. Maybe not their face, but surely their car.. (though this observer) didnt even recollect the sighting.. Either way, the monster wud not have ever known that he was not being sought, until the minutes turned to hours and hours turned to days...and now months ..

If it was T or D or K... they wud have predicted that LE and the school wud be hunting them down, to see if they knew anything about Kyrons whereabouts.. parents especially Terri wud have been the first ppl the school and LE wud be hunting for..

Knowing that T was doing errands and was downtown at 2 very public stores during the intitial time that Kyron wud have gone missing from... this shud have exonerated her from the list of suspects..

One cant honestly think that she cud have taken him, then gone to do these errands as she wud have had no time to have done anythiong with him, and she wuds have suspected that LE wud have been combing the community looking for him..

The fact that 6 hours went by, before anyone knew, is a total tragedy, and wud have certainly been unexpected by the perp who took him..

We cant honeslty think that D k or T cud have the wherewilall (experience) in thbis situation to have been able to outsmart the entire LE and the community as by rights... no one cud have ever predicted that the school was going to DROP THE BALL, and lose a 7 yr old boy!!

If you have ever considered T D or K... does this help rule them out?????

If Kyron was taken by someone at the school (outsider who just happened to be there? Someone just looking for a child who would be an easy snatch?)- I would think that they would've high tailed it away from there as fast and as far as they could go quickly.

It might have been only a matter of minutes before he was noticed to be missing........ or as much as an hour or two. (For the life of me, I don't care what was going on at the school that day, a young student being missing for 7 hours with no one noticing is ridiculous...... and tragic for Kyron- but I don't think any could have anticipated that.)

kh

Just so I know my point is clear.... wud you then think that it wudnt make sense to suspect Terri, as she, or whoever took him.. wud have assumed that Kyron was being looked for immediately, and so were his parents..

On account we know she went downtown 2 stores.. shudnt this help eliminate Terri from the roster??? Why didnt LE consider this?? instead of helping turnn the community against her??

awaiting justice wrote:Just so I know my point is clear.... wud you then think that it wudnt make sense to suspect Terri, as she, or whoever took him.. wud have assumed that Kyron was being looked for immediately, and so were his parents..

On account we know she went downtown 2 stores.. shudnt this help eliminate Terri from the roster??? Why didnt LE consider this?? instead of helping turnn the community against her??

Good question- I think LE's thinkin is that Terri was "unaccounted for" for a period of time after she dropped Kyron off and thus had time to "do something" with/to him. kh

PS: But I in no way endorse what LE has done with the the help of the media/family to Terri publically to villianize her with no apparent evidence to back it up. kh

KH said...

" Good question- I think LE's thinkin is that Terri was "unaccounted for" for a period of time after she dropped Kyron off and thus had time to "do something" with/to him. kh "

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Yes, I agree but my prob is... we know she was at 2 stores within minutes of having dropped Kyron off, and leaving the school...

If Terri was the one who took him, she or anyone who took him, wud have had to assume that there wud have been a huge hunt going on, and that she and K wud have been called immediately....

Even if she thought it wud be ok that she wud not have been reachable.. she wud have thought that Kaine wud have been and that he wud be on his way and looking for Kyron and her for that matter.. especially knowing that Kyron had already for sure been seen at school...

If anything, she wud have been worried that ppl wud have been worried that not only is Kyron gone, but that she cant be reached.... So ppl wud be double worried and not only looking for her and Kyron, but her truck as well...

Why wud she have ever gone to 2 stores downtown, right after??? Where wud Kyron have been? She wud not have had time yet to have done anything with him, and surely she wud not have left him in the truck, where any passer by cud have spotted him AND HER TRUCK, easily especially where she wud have been anticipating that ppl were out looking????

It seems to me that LE never took this into consideration at all....

If Terri was the one who did this.. I cant see how she wud have leisruely went to 2 diff stores before doing the deed... as clearly there was no time beforehand...

.................. Yes, I agree but my prob is... we know she was at 2 stores within minutes of having dropped Kyron off, and leaving the school... Oh, okay, I get it now. I thought she was at the stores later in the morning.

If Terri was the one who took him, she or anyone who took him, wud have had to assume that there wud have been a huge hunt going on, and that she and K wud have been called immediately.... I think LE believes she has an accomplice, someone she gave Kyron to, which could have been done quickly. They desperately wanted DiDi to be that accomplice, but couldn't make that fly .........
kh

Yes KH... which is where LE is showing me how stupid they are...

allegedly she went to Albertsons first, and then across town to the Fred M's where she bumped into AL at 10:10 ....

Nothing in that timeline suggests anytime that she cud have done this,..... so this is where LE have clearly confirmed everything she told them to be true, so becasue LE has confirmed her timeline and clearly shows there was no way she cud have done it..they turn around and say /... " well someone must have helped her" ...It is a cop out as notghing sahe has ever been able to say or do, to prove her innocence has been enough.. LE has shown me they are hellbent on using her as the scapegoat who did this, and they will wait till they have some nut who will do a tell all on the hot seat, where in turn they will get time off or something in lieu of their big fat lie.. in the meantime the perp likley lauyghs and walks on only to continue commiting his heinousness..

So yes.. I agree with you.. as soon as LE cant pin it onm the person,, it seems poretty typiclal for them to now say ..she must have had help, rather than saying to themselves that they were wrong... move on and find the monster and Kyron...

To think that a person (who has no motive) wud be able to involve another person in such a heinous crime against a child is ludicrous...

I realize that unfortunaltely ppl sometimes do kill their children..

But what many arent seeing (ESPECIALLY LE) is that the parents that commit these crimes, leave all kinds of evidence ..

Casey Monster Anthony...

DNA and death banded hair in her car..

No report of missing child - ever

Lies. lies and more lies, that we heard with our very own ears...

Monster Skelton

3 nooses at the scene

3 coats in the house

changed stories.. gave them to JT now to an organization,

in the process of committing suicide...

Zahra

No missing child report

Abuse allegations from way back

Mental illness..

Remains found close by to the house

Elizabeth Monster Johnson

The threat being made to the father

No report of a missing child

Mental Illness

Abuse (medication)

Saying he is in the dump...

Susan Monster Smith

Letters confirming boyfriend doesnt want kids...

9 days later, a confession, after LE didnt give up on her inconsistencies..

Dianne Monster Downs

Boyfriend didnt want kids

Forensic evidence of how she shought herself in the forearm

Her own child testifying that she was the shooter..

A witness seeing her driving 10 miles an hour with 3 babies shot dead and dying in the backseat....

Monster DeBlase

He told LE where the remains were after he got caught

Andrea Yates

Told on herself immediately following

Monster Coleman

Receipts for red paint

Cameras showing no vehicles in or out of the property

Affair

Call to G/F right after

Lies about his timing...

Planned divorce but unknowing to the dead wife


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Can someone show me a case where the a parent killed their child and left no evidence and had no motive??? No history of child abuse, a clean past???????? and also where someone else was involved who happened to just want to " help" the perp get rid of the child, and/or give a child away to human trafficing ..for no reason???

This case screams monster pig, and it infuriates me that LRE have not acted in a way that supports the thought that they ever considered it, and the ultimate maddening thing, is that many many ppl, even consider terri or any of the H's in that case, as the likely suspects....

I don't fault LE for focusing on the family immediately. But I agree they should have been simultaneously considering a non-familial abduction and moving swiftly with standard protocols under that assumption. They were handicapped by a six hour window before being informed of the missing child - this is not the fault of LE, but an inexcusable mistake by the school (unless someone at the school is involved). Then, once notified, LE operated under the amateurish assumption that Kyron wandered off for over 6 hours, giving the perp even more time to avoid detection. Finally, they compounded this mistake by getting stuck on Terri (maybe based on Kaine's biased suspicion of the woman he was about to divorce), giving the real abductor another huge advantage to execute his crimes without detection. Does it get much worse?

Wonder if LE was able to get a warrant for audio surveillance of the house when DeDe was staying with Terri? If they had an allegation (or created one) of MFH, a judge might have granted permission to bug the house. Was DeDe cooperating with LE at that time? If LE was listening in, they must not have gotten any incriminating evidence; neither Terri nor DeDe has been indicted or named a suspect after 7 months of intense investigation by local LE, the FBI, the Secret Service....

Bottom line: instead of trying to identify the perp through the assumption that Terri was involved, it is my opinion that LE should have simultaneously been dedicating considerable resources towards identifying the possible perp(s) as if it wasn't an "isolated incident". If they find the perp and later determine that there was some connection to the family, anyone with culpability will be on the hot seat. I think that's what LE is doing now, but so much time has passed.

Peace to Kyron and all who love him.

awaiting justice asked:
Can someone show me a case where the a parent killed their child and left no evidence and had no motive??? No history of child abuse, a clean past???????? and also where someone else was involved who happened to just want to " help" the perp get rid of the child, and/or give a child away to human trafficing ..for no reason???
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Here is the link to the only case I know about that fits your criteria. The motive wasn't known until the stepmother's friend confessed. Stepmom had help abducting the child from the school by her friend. No physical evidence was found. In this case, the stepmom was much younger (22); she had a clean record up until then, but again, she was only 22. Her maiden name was Spitser (weird coincidence). The FBI was able to crack her within a couple of weeks...

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20104652,00.html

I don't think this parallels Kyron's case, just answering your question about any other cases that meet your criteria. This is the closest one that I know about...

truthb,

I dont fault LE for starting with the family either.. Not one little bit...

My prob is like yours.. its the fact that they got stck there, and never moved passed it (including not checking the 2 dumps) that very day.... or at least shortly after wards..

I too think that LE are going with that they will sit back and wait/find someone (like the landscaper MFH) who can trade off info.... for immunity (from theire own problem) were they can get on the stand and say that Terri did it..

I am seeing a common thread in many wrongful convictions of just this very thing...

It might sound surprising but apparently there are many ppl who are ready to get on the stand and say just about anythoing, where it benefit them someone whether it is less time for their own legal problems or even dropping charges altogether ....

I disagree with these type of cases...forensics are what is required and these forensics shud not be hard to find, especiually if the POI is already available to LE, along with their things (ie cars, house computer)of course finding Kyron wud be the answer, and I still cant believe how LE hardly searched...

On account that we know Terri was around after the crime wud have taken place... it shud go to prove that T. didnt do it, as she wud have expected ppl and LE to be searching for her and she wud have been easily found ....

awaiting justice wrote:Yes KH... which is where LE is showing me how stupid they are...

allegedly she went to Albertsons first, and then across town to the Fred M's where she bumped into AL at 10:10 ....

Are they still saying Terri went to a Albertson's store? I thought that was just a rumor and it's been changed to two Fred Meyers instead. I know on Dateline they just said two Fred Meyers and when the LE were asking for tips on a white truck in a parking lot, it was for two Fred Meyers. These two stores are Freeway close so it wouldn't have taken her long to drive from one to the other. On the other hand, I grew up in Beaverton and I can tell you traffic is terrible and you really can't count on it moving smoothly. If I was plotting a crime that counted on a tight time range, I would not plan on being in Beaverton.

truthbtold wrote:

Wonder if LE was able to get a warrant for audio surveillance of the house when DeDe was staying with Terri? If they had an allegation (or created one) of MFH, a judge might have granted permission to bug the house. Was DeDe cooperating with LE at that time? If LE was listening in, they must not have gotten any incriminating evidence; neither Terri nor DeDe has been indicted or named a suspect after 7 months of intense investigation by local LE, the FBI, the Secret Service....
Peace to Kyron and all who love him.

I'm wondering if LE needed a warrant because the house was in Kiane's name and if he gave permission for it to be bugged, I'm thinking they might not need a court order. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know how the law reads about such things.

Truthb,

Thank you for bringing the case of Scotty Baker...


you said....

"I don't think this parallels Kyron's case, just answering your question about any other cases that meet your criteria. This is the closest one that I know about..."

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Thanks for bringing this Truthb... I hadnt known of this very sad case before...

Im glad you pointed out that it doesnt really parallel Kyrons case.....and that it was as close as you cud find finding a case where my criteria was ...

AJ asked....

" Can someone show me a case where the a parent killed their child and left no evidence and had no motive??? No history of child abuse, a clean past????????

The gist of this sad crime is that a 10 yr old boy was abducted from his school,(1994) from his school by his 22 yr old step mother who had proven to be mentally unstable (suicide attempt in the months prior over noted jealousy of the boy and his dads relationship.. and prior separations and then reconciliations in their short lived relationship with the dad, which was under a yr....

My point is that it only took LE 6 days to get the entire truth and the remains....and the facts around the crime...

Her diary showed the mindset of her jealousy and that she clearly resented his presence...

In other words.. stepmother left all kinds of evidence, along with noted mental illness, and prior history jealousy problems with her stepson... and with Scottys dad...

The father had only known the girl since the fall of 93, and they were married Feb 94, where she had tried to commit suicide in the summer of 94 and Scotty disappeared the day before Thanksgiving 94...

And the case was solved in a matter of a days where they had his remains..

I appreciate so much bringing this case. This case does support that for whatever reason a friend wud ever help, or be a parte too... it does happen and this case reflects just that...

It is said that the friend was duped by stepmom, but I dont believe her.. She had to know somethiong was going to go down, for her to have to put on a disguise....

here is another article..

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20104652,00.html

Elphie,

Here is the article from KATU.. that says it was a Freds and Albertsons...(my point in this thread is to show that Terri was likley not involved at all.. as she wud have expected that everyone incl LE wud have been on this case in minutes after he was missing.. whatever perp took him, must have expected le and Kaine wud be searching for him very soon after he was taken.. sop why wud Terri be out shopping?? and where wud she have put Kyron?? she had not time to do anything...here is the article..

Story Published: Jul 9, 2010 at 6:35 PM PST

" PORTLAND, Ore. - Investigators have collected surveillance videos from local grocery stores in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, sources said.

The corporate offices of Fred Meyer and Albertsons both confirmed to KATU News on Friday they are cooperating with investigators in the Kyron Horman case.

Officials with Albertsons said they’ve turned over surveillance video from their store on Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway on June 4, the day the Skyline School second-grader disappeared.

Fred Meyer officials, however, will only say they are working with detectives regarding at least one store. They said if they turned over surveillance video, it would be up to investigators to disclose it to the media; however, sources said that the Sunset Fred Meyer off Highway 26 in Hillsboro has submitted video for investigators to review.

That store is five miles from Skyline School. The Albertsons, depending on the route taken, is anywhere from 14 to 16 miles from the school.

Investigators are trying to establish Terri Horman’s timeline, sources said. They say Terri was the last person to see Kyron and they are trying to find out what she did after she dropped him off at the school.

There is no indication that Kyron is in any of the video.

Former Multnomah County prosecutor Jim McIntyre said an arrest in this case has not been made because, “You have to be able to identify specifically what crime you’re going to charge. You can’t simply say, ‘you’re under arrest because everyone thinks you did something.’ I mean, you have to have evidence, more likely than not, that you committed a specific crime.”

He pointed out that without knowing what happened to Kyron, it is difficult to arrest someone and charge them based on circumstantial evidence alone.

He also said there’s a big difference between missing children and missing adults in pressing ahead with charges that are based on circumstantial evidence.

Adults leave paper trails that children don’t. They buy things at grocery stores with credit cards, use ATMs, write e-mails and make phone calls. Those are the kinds of things that stop when adults disappear. But a 7-year-old doesn’t leave those kinds of digital footprints.

“So when you have a child that goes missing, it becomes extremely more complicated in trying to establish whether that child is missing or whether that child is deceased,” said McIntyre. “If you don’t know those two answers then how do you identify which crime to charge?”

As to making an arrest in a murder-for-hire plot, McIntyre said that type of case is one of the hardest to prove unless the suspect or suspects confess or implicate themselves in the crime.

Police have not named Terri Horman as a suspect in the disappearance of Kyron and they haven’t made any arrests in the case."

http://www.katu.com/news/98150609.html

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awaiting justice wrote:Elphie,

Here is the article from KATU.. that says it was a Freds and Albertsons...(my point in this thread is to show that Terri was likley not involved at all.. as she wud have expected that everyone incl LE wud have been on this case in minutes after he was missing.. whatever perp took him, must have expected le and Kaine wud be searching for him very soon after he was taken.. sop why wud Terri be out shopping?? and where wud she have put Kyron?? she had not time to do anything...here is the article..

http://www.katu.com/news/98150609.html

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It maybe that Terri went to one Albertsons and then on to two Fred Meyers in her June 4th journey. A point that I would like to make is if she was basically driving around waiting for Kiara's meds to kick in and calm her down, why would people assume that she would take the most direct route back over the West Hills to get to Cornelius Pass and Hwy 30, and then possibly to SI. If it's just a matter of killing time, there are far more pleasant routes ( not as fast ) to take heading that direction.

Personally, even if she did take the fastest route, I don't believe she could have made it to the far side of SI, do the deed, and speed back to the gym in the time allotted.

Elphie said:
I'm wondering if LE needed a warrant because the house was in Kiane's name and if he gave permission for it to be bugged, I'm thinking they might not need a court order. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know how the law reads about such things.
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I think you're right Elphie. Kaine could probably authorize bugging the home as the legal owner (don't think Terri's name is also on the mortgage). The reason why I'm curious about it is because it explains the failed MFH sting, LE appearing to back off of DeDe even though they haven't directly stated that her full alibi is now confirmed, Kaine not forcing Terri out immediately when he took custody... If LE really thought Terri was the one, could they have worked with Rudy to conjure up a MFH story to convince Kaine (or a judge) to allow bugging the house before DeDe moved in with her? Just curious speculation that might explain some of the loose ends...

And more importantly... she wud have assumed she was being sought..not as the perp necessarily but she wud have thought that LE and K were on the scene and that she was being looked for..

Im not sure if she used cash or electronic methods of payment, but she did have a conversation with an acquaintence.. She shud have been worried that ppl and LE in town wud be driving around looking for her hoping to have found Kyron with her...

I suspect LE searched SI as she likley told them that she drove to that area with Kiera... and thats why looked (like SP had said he fished in the Bay... )

I believe that everything she told them must be true or she wud have been arrested at least on obstruction charges...who knows she may have been at more places than whet we know about as we havent seen her statement and God knows K isntr going to say anything that will help her..

Truthb,

I do think that an order wud have been necessary, even if K agreed to it.. I think it wud take more than a homeowner or suspicious party, to allow any device installed..

It wud need to be legal for it to be admissable..

It cud have been in place the next day... even without K's knowledge, and to see wht he had to say about things..

It wud be risky for them to bug it without legal, as if any of the H's said anything, it cud never be used against them..

truthbtold wrote:Elphie said:
I'm wondering if LE needed a warrant because the house was in Kiane's name and if he gave permission for it to be bugged, I'm thinking they might not need a court order. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know how the law reads about such things.
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I think you're right Elphie. Kaine could probably authorize bugging the home as the legal owner (don't think Terri's name is also on the mortgage). The reason why I'm curious about it is because it explains the failed MFH sting, LE appearing to back off of DeDe even though they haven't directly stated that her full alibi is now confirmed, Kaine not forcing Terri out immediately when he took custody... If LE really thought Terri was the one, could they have worked with Rudy to conjure up a MFH story to convince Kaine (or a judge) to allow bugging the house before DeDe moved in with her? Just curious speculation that might explain some of the loose ends...

I always wondered why it was Kiane that moved out first. If LE told him about the alleged MFH plot, he could have gotten a RO the next day or two and forced her out. After all, the attempt to hire was six months earlier and there was no evidence that he or Kiara were in immediate danger.

I have grave doubts about the whole MFH plot anyway. If they had more evidence than a he said/she said, Terri would have been arrested. I think Rudy was in trouble with the LE and was trying to dream up scheme for a deal. I'll give you a MFH, if you drop these other charges ... or something along that line.

awaiting justice,
The topic of this thread is very interesting. Whether the abductor was someone close to Kyron or an unassociated pedophile, the perp couldn't bank on having more than a 30 minute headstart, imo. The only way around that expectation would be if the teacher or someone in the school admin office was involved, which I think is highly unlikely.

If Terri did it:
If we assume Terri was behind this and she tried to cause confusion with the whole doctor's appointment snafu, one would still assume the teacher would have the school call Terri to confirm that she took him just to be sure. I would expect this call to come shortly after roll call (which would have been within 15 minutes of Terri leaving the school). There would be a record of the school calling Terri. If Terri had actually planned the abduction, she would have been planning to head back to the school shortly after leaving. Maybe she was planning on going back right away and that's why she didn't have an alibi (that we know about) for 90 minutes; she was driving around waiting for the call. Personally, I don't think so because there aren't the standard warning signs that we typically see when a parent harms their child and LE hasn't accumulated evidence to name her even a POI after over 6 months of intensive scrutiny.

If a Pedo did it:
So, assume a pedophile either targeted Kyron, or Kyron was just the right type and he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. This, imo, is the most likely scenario and it scares me. The perp would have figured he had a very short amount of time to get what he wanted out of Kyron. He would have expected an alert from the school shortly after taking Kyron, followed by a 911 call and possible road blocks. It makes me fear that Kyron wouldn't have had long to live and the perp would plan to dispose of him close by (which is why I hope you're wrong and LE did check the landfills/dumps, but I fear you're right). Still, a pedo could have instead planned on keeping Kyron and just headed out of town as fast as possible - not expecting road blocks. Less likely, but still possible...

Kyron was sold theory:
I understand there is a lot of talk in Portland about Kyron being sold by Terri. I find it hard to believe that traffickers would deal with a suburb mom to purchase a middle class kid when they could get a child for free from drug-addicted parents or a family that wouldn't likely garner a lot of media attention (sad situation, but true).

My Confession: up until the third month of this investigation, I fantasized that Kyron was taken by the good guys; people who knew he was unhappy, discovered that he was in harm's way, and moved him underground. It seemed (remotely) possible; Terri and a school member could have worked together to make it happen since Kaine wasn't open to any change in Kyron's living situation. I had to let go of the fantasy a couple of months back; someone would have cracked by now and LE wouldn't have spent all the time and money on Sauvie Island searches over the last couple of months if there was any merit to my underground dream. The FBI would have uncovered something by now, I think. Too bad - I loved the idea of Kyron being with people who cared; helping him to heal from whatever was causing him sadness...

Bottom line: No matter who people suspect is guilty of causing Kyron's disspearance or why, it's hard to think any possible suspect would expect to have more than 30 minutes before the disappearance was reported and LE was deployed. It doesn't bode well for Kyron, imo. I so hope I'm wrong..

I wonder if the perp feared being caught before getting off the school grounds. None of the doors were monitored but with all of the people there surely it had to be risky to take Kyron out of there.

For some sickos, that is part of the thrill. Taking a child from a high risk area and getting away with it. I think they really expected the alarm to be raised within an hour. The first 1/2 hour would involve searching the school, the second 1/2 would involve contacting parents, police, etc. And they expected to be far, far away by then. I think they took him and hightailed it out of the area. The first hour was to get to the hiding area. Once they realized no news reports were out, then they had to determine what to do next. Probably, NOT keeping Kyron around. Maybe passing him off, but most likely, eliminating the risk of being caught with him. I think he had 1-2 days at most at that point.

But there are those high profile abductions where the child is found later. Think of Steven Stayner, Shannon Matthews, Shawn Hornbeck, Jaycee Duggard. They are miracles. And it does happen. There is hope.

Sherry wrote:I wonder if the perp feared being caught before getting off the school grounds. None of the doors were monitored but with all of the people there surely it had to be risky to take Kyron out of there.

Sherry that is exactly what I think.. also this perp may have noticed that someone had seen him/her. Whoever took kyron, wud have left there and left town sooooooo fast... as they wud have ecxpected that the entire community was searching for him....

ANy adult who wud have abdcuted a child from their schhol (inclu a paren) wud have thought and expected that the chbilds disappearance wud be noticed in minutes .... where they wud act on it with 911....

Can you imagine the perp.. stopping by 2 diff grocery stores just after committing this crime???????

What wud she have done with Kyron so quickly... wud she not have been worried that ppl wud have been hunting her down to see if she was the one who fpor some reason had Kyron..

It makes me sick that as soon as LE confirmppls alibis, rather than moving on to the next ..they just say that ..she must have had help??? even thpough there is no motive... so sad... still no Kyron..

Funny how this wasnt enough for LE to have considered right off the bat, that it prolly wasnt T...they seem tpo overlook the logics here..

aj sez:
"Can you imagine the perp.. stopping by 2 diff grocery stores just after committing this crime???????"

No, I can't, but there are a vast majority who believe its possible!

Maat wrote:
But there are those high profile abductions where the child is found later. Think of Steven Stayner, Shannon Matthews, Shawn Hornbeck, Jaycee Duggard. They are miracles. And it does happen. There is hope.
==================================
Hoping for a miracle with Kyron!!!

aj sez:
"Can you imagine the perp.. stopping by 2 diff grocery stores just after committing this crime???????"

Sherry says..

No, I can't, but there are a vast majority who believe its possible!

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Ya Sherry.. that is the scary part... these ppl are the ones who make up jurys... too bad ppl (that are so quick to assume guilt) dont realize that as crazy as it is..there is logic in crimes...and it wud be totally illogical to think that Terri wud have gone shopping before she was going to discard Kyron... cllearly she wud have had no time before shopping..

I actually done think many ppl hgave even considered this fact....

PPl want to believe, judge and hate, before really assessing the entire set of circumstances..

Really, if T had anything to do with it, and she wanted to succeed in getting rid of Kyron, she wud have never left herself so open to getting caught before she even had any time...

Also, the high risk offenders (which is exactly what this crime seems like) wud take him, and hope for the best.. I be;lipeve they live always on the verge of getting caught and it is that thrill that motivates them... sometimes they do and sometimes they dont, which just keeps that sick game going on ... till their next victim....

If Terri was the one who wud have masterminded this, there wud have been no high risk circumstances as clearly we know she isnt a high risk pped who wud have committed a crime like this before ...

I agree with you all, but wanted to just point out...

He was last seen (according to what we've been told) about 8:45-9am. We know Terri was at FM's at that time so if he was seen at the school - it rules Terri out UNLESS she had someone else go in and lure him away.

Role call was taken at 10:00. I'm not sure if this fact was known to the perp or not. But certainly the Fair conclusion was posted as 8am - 10am...so there is a good chance that the perp thought they had until 10am before he was noticed missing. Then some time after for searching the school, etc.

I think it's more likely that some guy took him that lives out of the area...BUT I think of Shawn Hornbeck...he was, what 3 miles away? I wonder how many times that fat-FUK made pizza for that family during that 8 year period! Wonder if he delivered pizza to their home before hand...or after...what a piece of work! No one suspected him. I wonder about that...is that part of the challenge too? For cripe sake Shawn went to school, 3 miles away? WTF!

Anyway...the key does seem to be that there was confusion around that Dr appointment. I don't know whether to beilef the school or not...because coincidently it covers their a$$ for losing a child. REGARDLESS, a school should have documentation if a parent takes a child off the premises. The fact that they didn't do this makes me wonder more about that coincidence. And later when his belongings were noticed, on a friday...and no call was made to double check???

I don't think the school was involved, but their lax behavior, in my opinion makes them just as suspicious!

alright, back to point...In order for Terri to have done this, she would have had to have help because she would have never known whether an alarm would go off or not.

A pervert would expect it.

If it was some get a cheap thrill and toss 'em like a pice of trash type of perv, I don't think he would have been the type to go 'shopping' at the school. I think a person like that grabs kids from yards and sidewalks and dumps them somewhere easy and they are found.

There could have been more stars that aliegned in favor of this perp, so I could be wrong...but my guess is that this person took this risk, walked into a busy K-8 school because he could 'choose' a kid, someone that mattered, because his intent was to hold onto him.

Now the big question is whether he got spooked and killed him or whether he's hidden in a backyard fort or in a hidden basement or something like that.

Either way, it looks like only 2 possibilities to me:

- It was Terri & an accomplis and they weren't sure when the alarm would sound, but knew they had to atleast 10 before she was called to verify he was with her at that appointment.

OR

- the perp knew he had 60 mins plus before Kyron was noticed missing and then more before police & the public were notified. A person could get pretty far in that length of time - or secure a hideout right?

I sure would like to hear more about who saw him and when - including the kids. And I'd also like to see any pics of him that day (that he appeared in the background of from other parents) - AND I'd like to hear about all the pictures, I'm assuming that LE asked for these (video and pics) I wonder if they identified each and every person in those pictures. If no stranger showed up, then it seems it would point toward someone associated with the school (or that the perp was caught on film).

I just wish they'd tell us more.

I wonder too, if all this Terri bashing is a ploy. Imagine if they did think a local pizzaman-type had him. What better way to keep Kyron safe than to reassure the perp that they are looking in a totally different direction.

Praying that the truth is learned soon!

KJ, " sweet avatar"

Merry Christmas to all! Hope it was fun, and not too (wallet ) draining lol....

Sherry says ....

"aj sez:
"Can you imagine the perp.. stopping by 2 diff grocery stores just after committing this crime???????"

Sherry says..No, I can't, but there are a vast majority who believe its possible!

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Sherry, you are soo right !!! And here is what I find especially sad about it...

I think we can all agree that " true crime" is prolly one of the most intriguing reading genre's if you will, that we have seen explode....

Many of us today, (thanks to the net) are so much more aware of heinous crimes thus, have become hardcore justice seekers..

The big problem with this, is that anyone can do it, even if they arent " qualified" .. by this I mean that many ppl have been influenced by shows like CSI, Numbers, and Criminal minds where LE are usually right, and have a quick formula to be able to back up their suspiccions..

It baffles me as to how ppl cud be so STUPID to believe that Terri was involved in this..

If more ppl, (including LE)... spent time researching criminolgy, they wud find that ther is LOGIC found in any crime... I hate to use that word as of course crimes shud never take place and in a perfect world, they wud never be committed..

In saavy detective work, you can see follow the logic that the perp used while committing the solved crime.. Crimes are solved by predicting the logic...

There is no logic in anyone believing that Terri was involved..

None at all.... If she intended to be successful in disposing/kiling/selling Kyroon... she wud have never used the school as the setting for her crime to begin.....

Why??? Becasue she wud have never predicted having 6 hours to complete the crime and be able to get home safe and sound, to begin deceit....

It is shocking to me that so many ppl go along with LE, who imo in thbis case, are clearly inexeperienced and lazy....

Sorry to say that as I have respect for LE who go oout and risk their lives everyday, but on the otherhand, too mnay are happy to smear a person based on circumstance where clearly they have support...

I believe the opinion of the gen public is strong enough to get convictions and happens all the time.. and the part that really frustrates me is the ppl who are believers in justice, and have huge voices have a such power in creating huge injustices like wrongful convictions...

The reason I felt strongly from day one that the landfills shud have been checked is because this crime is so consistent with a high risk ped, who clearly took suchj a huge chance, where he wud have had no expectation of time, and for sick thrill of it, prolly took, molested and killed Kyron in less than 3 hours, and a good place to rule out in the very beginning is a landfill.....and up to this point, we will never know as if he is in there, the chances of finding him, get slimmer everyday.. and clearly all the voicese that want Terri convicted.. maybe shud be screaming at LE to get off the a**'s and chekl the landfill....

The reason I posted this this thread, is to hope that anyu possible readers and even media, might think about the question, which is...

WHY THE HE** WUD TERRI HAVE EVER WENT SHOPPING WHEN ANYONE WUD HAVE EXPECTED LE WUD BE INVOLVED IN LESS THAT 30 MINUTES..... ???????????

It would have been far more than 30 minutes. Terri left at 8:45ish and role call was at 10. that is 75 minutes. Now add to it the verifying that he is missing before sounding any alarm...that is at least another 30 minutes, then contact parents, then police. There is a pretty wide window there.

For Terri, (assuming it was her) this is the reason they believe there was an accomplise...it's necessary. She would hand him off, then go establish her alibi.

It works. But it still makes no sense. I can't see someone else helping her do this - who hasn't cracked by now. AND depending on what her real intentions were - pissing off Kaine or just getting rid of the source of her angst...there are much less risky ways of doing that which wouldn't put her future in such jeapordy.

If she wanted to take Kyron away from Kaine - to hurt Kaine. All she would need to do is divorce him. Then Kyron would have been transfered to D.

If she wanted to stay with Kaine, but wanted rid of Kyron) then she could have worked with D to persuade her to pursue custody. Or manipulate Kyron into behavior changes to encourage a change in custody.

If she wanted away from both of them...then leave with Kiara.

If she wanted away from all of them...just run away.

If she was hell bent on hurting them all and didn't care about her life...then jump off a bridge and leave a hateful note behind.

And I just can't wrap my head around the idea that someone would help her harm a child...I just don't.

Terri either went shopping to establish an alibi OR she went shopping because she needed to pick some things up and she was oblivious to what was going on.

KJ,

you said..

" It would have been far more than 30 minutes. Terri left at 8:45ish and role call was at 10. that is 75 minutes. Now add to it the verifying that he is missing before sounding any alarm...that is at least another 30 minutes, then contact parents, then police. There is a pretty wide window there."

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Just to reiterate... the point I am trying to make in this specific thread, is .......

The perp, no matter who it was... a stranger, another parent or their relative, the janitor, Terri, Kyron, D, ....whoever.. dpoesnt matter who.. who ever did this wud have had the idea that Kyron wud be looked for immediately from the point of Kyrons capture...

No perp (whoever it was ..even if it was T D or K) No one wud have been able to predict how long before it was known that Kyron was missing... No one wud have known if soomeone happened to see Kyron leave with someone... the perp wud have automatically wondered ... A. Was he seen leaving?

B. How long before a massive search is done...?

C. Was their a street/school video somewhere that captured it...?

My entire point is ..for anyone who took him, their wud have been a preconceived notion that LE/School/family/community may have been looking immedialtely...
so for anyone to think to Terri did it, is ludicrous as why wud she have gone felt that she had time to stop at 2 diff stores to get meds as she wud have assumed (if she was involved) that ppl wud be hunting her down to see if Kyron was witdh her...

SHe wud have never been so easily available in the community, where anyone wud have seen her and the truck, where it wud such a high risk operation....

As for someone else being involved (where she cud have hannded him off) is also crazy especially when there is no motive, and how wud she have ever felt that she cud take him out of the school without someone seeing her especially when ppl wud have been driving in and out of the school that morning..

This is why this crime is so consitentant with a high risk ped, who took the chance and sick thrill, and got away with it....

Of course society has a huge hand in FACILITATING these type of crimes, as clearly society and LE continue to teach the pigs that they can do this quite easily, as the parents will somehow be blamed......

How sad.. to think that LE cudnt even be bothered to check the both landfills which were only 6 miles away....
What a great message to any pig out there...

They may not be checking the landfills because I read online somewhere that most of the trash is not dumped in the landfills, but sent through an incenerator.

Johnabelle,

I still find it totally unbelieveable that the landfills arent checked..

If incenerarors are used, mabe it wud mean that it wudnt be such a big task for them to try.. hopefully they will .. An open area like this has been used by many monster pigs..