Re: Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11

by Freckles Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:36 pm

Jessica2 wrote: When I first learned about this story, I too thought Rebecca was murdered. However, I never thought it was anyone from the family that did it. I thought maybe a stranger knew that everyone would be at the hospital and they committed this "crime". Of course now, with the release of all of the reports my opinion is different.
I understand that people believe it was murder with everything in them, but I do question if not for some deep rooted anger and hatred for this family why no one has ever thought of anyone other than the family as having committed this "crime" you believe in.

--- For what purpose?
Nothing was taken from the house(s) or the garage apartment.
There was no sexual assault upon her body.

What gain would an intruder have?

by Jessica2 Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:24 pm

Freckles wrote:
Jessica2 wrote:
Puzzler wrote:A few may believe a thin red line was left by a bulky T-shirt, but not I.

To each their own.

@Puzzler- I don't get the point about the thin red line either. If it was caused by "strangulation", it would not be a thin red line, it would be a deep furrow that would later turn deeper in color. Could she have worn a chain that she removed?
I don't think (my opinion) it was from the rope from the hanging, because alot of times in hanging death, the rope becomes untied or may shift in place according to the movement of the body during death(siezures etc.). Since there was a t-shirt tied above the rope, I don't think the rope caused it(the rope would be secure), but I could be wrong.
I'm thinking it was an incidental finding.

-- Now just how would she have removed the chain AFTER she was dead?
The tee and the noose were intertwined in places--- along with her hair.
The rope left its own distinct ligature mark as did the tee.

Please explain the "accidental finding".

@Freckles- I meant could she have been wearing a chain or a necklace at any time leading to the death that she removed before the death? Sorry if that statement was not clear.
In my opinion,if it were strangulation, the line would not be just a thin horizontal red line. It would be a deep red furrow that got deeper in color as time went on.
With some of these findings in the case, I do think there can be innocent explanations. I can't come to a rational conclusion without exploring innocent and not innocent possibilities.
What do you think this thin red horizontal line was caused by?

by Freckles Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:34 pm

Jessica--
Max was not in rigor.
This thread is not about Max or any of the drugs he may/may not have had in his system.

Please address my post of 2:28 Pm.

by Jessica2 Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:43 pm

Freckles wrote:Jessica--
Max was not in rigor.
This thread is not about Max or any of the drugs he may/may not have had in his system.

Please address my post of 2:28 Pm.

You asked me to explain why it could have been an incidental finding.

by Puzzler Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:46 pm

IMO a person doesn't wear a chain around their neck so tight as to leave a red line around the neck.

by Puzzler Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:48 pm

The point is - "if" that were Rebecca's saliva on the tee shirt it's "not" known because there was no sample taken and no test made.

I "doubt" there's that much saliva being made in one's mouth when it's stuffed full of cotton.

by Justice4all Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:52 pm

Please stop the personal attacks and arguing and get this thread back on track. I've started cleaning up this thread and if your post is gone, it probably contained a personal attack or a response to a personal attack.

by ThirdEye Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:54 pm

Also, I do not think the Rebecca Zahau suicide can be discussed without discussing Max Shacknai's accident and death. The two are forever linked. Those that believe the SDSO were correct in ruling her death a suicide believe that it is because of Max's accident that she took her life. One cannot be discussed without discussing the other.

by Jessica2 Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:06 pm

Freckles wrote:Jessica--
Max was not in rigor.
This thread is not about Max or any of the drugs he may/may not have had in his system.

Please address my post of 2:28 Pm.

@Freckles-With all due respect, you asked me to explain why it could have been an incidental finding. If she were wearing a necklace or chain in the days leading to her death (before her death), yes it could have caused a thin red horizontal line. Could this be the reason? I don't know. I thought we were here to explore all the possibilities. Every single finding does not have to have a sinister explanation. Rational people explore both possibilities.

by Lash Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:25 pm

Jessica2 wrote:
Lash wrote:
Willow- Thank you! I do remember this quote.

Everyone has been accused even Rebecca and Xena of causing harm to Max.

I have read the past few pages of this thread and so few posts have been about the facts. The rest have been aggressive assumptions, speculations, name calling and bloviating. I had to check my web address to make sure I wasn't at some left handed *bleep* website. This is not a healthy discussion. Every opinion matters, whether you believe Rebecca committed suicide or you believe she was murdered. I might disagree with a poster, but I don't dislike that person because of their opinion. I'm going to treat them with respect as long as they treat me with respect. If they don't, I will scroll and roll. Both sides can learn from each other if we listen and ask questions surrounded by facts. Neither side really knows what happened and we may never know. Especially if we continue to treat each others side like they have no value and should just be mute. Of course, just my opinion and NOT directed at any one person!

@Lash- I wrote what you posted. I am not pretending to be someone else, my name is the same:) I completely agree with you that "both sides can learn from each other if we listen and ask questions surrounded by facts." That is honestly why I came here.

Jessica- I didn't think you were pretending. Sorry if it came out that way.

by Jessica2 Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:39 pm

Lash wrote:
Jessica2 wrote:
Lash wrote:
Willow- Thank you! I do remember this quote.

Everyone has been accused even Rebecca and Xena of causing harm to Max.

I have read the past few pages of this thread and so few posts have been about the facts. The rest have been aggressive assumptions, speculations, name calling and bloviating. I had to check my web address to make sure I wasn't at some left handed *bleep* website. This is not a healthy discussion. Every opinion matters, whether you believe Rebecca committed suicide or you believe she was murdered. I might disagree with a poster, but I don't dislike that person because of their opinion. I'm going to treat them with respect as long as they treat me with respect. If they don't, I will scroll and roll. Both sides can learn from each other if we listen and ask questions surrounded by facts. Neither side really knows what happened and we may never know. Especially if we continue to treat each others side like they have no value and should just be mute. Of course, just my opinion and NOT directed at any one person!

@Lash- I wrote what you posted. I am not pretending to be someone else, my name is the same:) I completely agree with you that "both sides can learn from each other if we listen and ask questions surrounded by facts." That is honestly why I came here.

Jessica- I didn't think you were pretending. Sorry if it came out that way.

@Lash- :) I just started posting on here, so people don't really know me yet. I did not think you thought I was pretending but I wanted to clarify that in case others were wondering why what I write sounds familiar:)

by vegret Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:40 pm

If one (or perhaps two) were trying to get certain 'information' from someone wearing a chain around the neck, its not unreasonable to imagine one placing a couple fingers under said chain and twisting the chain tighter and tighter until person wearing chain blacked out or chain broke. Hence the two differing marks around Rebecca's neck. JMO.

by Jessica2 Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:48 pm

vegret wrote:If one (or perhaps two) were trying to get certain 'information' from someone wearing a chain around the neck, its not unreasonable to imagine one placing a couple fingers under said chain and twisting the chain tighter and tighter until person wearing chain blacked out or chain broke. Hence the two differing marks around Rebecca's neck. JMO.

@vegret- was a chain ever found? Was she ever known to wear one?

by vegret Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:33 pm

Couldn't say if Rebecca Zahau was known to decorate her neck with necklaces. Never had the pleasure of meeting her. Perhaps you may know the answer to your question.

My post was in response to the two below:

Jessica2 Today at 2:28 pm

"...I don't get the point about the thin red line either. If it was caused by "strangulation", it would not be a thin red line, it would be a deep furrow that would later turn deeper in color. Could she have worn a chain that she removed?..."

Puzzler Today at 4:46 pm

"IMO a person doesn't wear a chain around their neck so tight as to leave a red line around the neck."

by Jessica2 Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:55 pm

vegret wrote:Couldn't say if Rebecca Zahau was known to decorate her neck with necklaces. Never had the pleasure of meeting her. Perhaps you may know the answer to your question.

My post was in response to the two below:

Jessica2 Today at 2:28 pm

"...I don't get the point about the thin red line either. If it was caused by "strangulation", it would not be a thin red line, it would be a deep furrow that would later turn deeper in color. Could she have worn a chain that she removed?..."

Puzzler Today at 4:46 pm

"IMO a person doesn't wear a chain around their neck so tight as to leave a red line around the neck."

@Vegret- I don't think it was the rope, that's why I wrote that, but I could be wrong. When a person sleeps wearing a chain or necklace, sometimes it leaves a thin red horizontal line for days. It does not have to be tightly worn for this to happen. I'm not saying this is what happened, just that some points may have an innocent explanation.

by ThirdEye Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:03 pm

There is nothing about a thin red line on the neck in the official autopsy report - it documneted "an atypical ligature consistant with the ligature around the neck", so there WAS no thin red line at the time of autopsy. Where did that piece of information come from? Factoid or Fact?

by vegret Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:04 pm

Soooo....you think one possibility is after awakening from sleeping with necklace on, Rebecca awoke and then decided to murder herself?

by Jessica2 Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:10 pm

vegret wrote:Soooo....you think one possibility is after awakening from sleeping with necklace on, Rebecca awoke and then decided to murder herself?

@Vegret- it could happen in the days leading up to that night. I wrote that sometimes when a necklace or chain is worn at night when sleeping, it can leave a thin horizontal red line for days...I think my statement was clear.

by Jessica2 Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:30 pm

Puzzler wrote:Autopsy Report indicate "two" red lines around Rebecca's neck.

One thin horizontal line.

One thicker line made by the rope, with an inverted "V" at the back of her ear.

How did that horizontal line get there?

@Puzzler- I cannot seem to find either of these points. On which page of the autopsy report did you read them?

by ThirdEye Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:44 pm

My apologies, Jessica2 and vegret - I found on pg. 9 of the autopsy report:

"Posteriorly, there is a thin, parallel, red line situated 1/8 inch below the dried ligature furrow for a distance of 2 /12 inches and spearated from it by an area of pallor"

So it was 2 1/2" long and thin (which I would take to mean less than 1/8 of an inch) which means that it did not go all the way around her neck, so it was not from a necklace. It does not sound significant, IMO.

by Jessica2 Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:54 pm

ThirdEye wrote:My apologies, Jessica2 and vegret - I found on pg. 9 of the autopsy report:

"Posteriorly, there is a thin, parallel, red line situated 1/8 inch below the dried ligature furrow for a distance of 2 /12 inches and spearated from it by an area of pallor"

So it was 2 1/2" long and thin (which I would take to mean less than 1/8 of an inch) which means that it did not go all the way around her neck, so it was not from a necklace. It does not sound significant, IMO.

@Thirdeye- thank you.Is it also written that there was an inverted v shaped ligature mark? Although,a mark left from a necklace or chain while sleeping at night, even in the days before would not necessarily go around the entire neck, and may not be significant, the finding of a inverted V-shaped ligature mark is without a doubt significant.

by Eileen_Dover Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:36 pm

KZ wrote:Justice4All was very kind in taking time to convert the following 2 documents to PDF's. Here are the links to my reviews of the autopsy reports for Max Shacknai and Rebecca Zahau, written in early September 2011, and first posted on The Hinky Meter site. There are additional links to more information in each review.

Max's autopsy review:

http://files.realitychatter.com/PDF/Max%20autopsy.pdf

Rebecca's autopsy review:

http://files.realitychatter.com/PDF/RZ%20autopsy.pdf

Thank You KZ and Justice4All !! Much appreciated.

by ThirdEye Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:44 pm

Wow KZ - those are SO informative.

What I think EVERYONE can agree on is that two lovely souls were lost, long before their time.

Thank you so much for your time and expertise on that, KZ!

by Jessica2 Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:03 pm

KZ, thank you so much for your thoughts and time taken to write those.
Justice4all, thank you so much for converting it.
ThirdEye, yes, two beautiful lovely souls were lost long before their time.
R.I.P. Max Shacknai and Rebecca Zahau

by Lash Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:05 pm

Thank you so much J4A! Thank you again KZ! Awesome to have them available again!

by Eileen_Dover Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:23 pm

Jessica2 wrote:KZ, thank you so much for your brilliant thoughts, expertise and time taken to write those.
Justice4all, thank you for converting it, and Eileen, thank you for posting it.
ThirdEye, yes, two beautiful lovely souls were lost long before their time.
R.I.P. Max Shacknai and Rebecca Zahau

Yikes, I didn't post them! KZ posted the links. All credit and thanks should be directed solely towards Justice4All and KZ.

by Jessica2 Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:30 pm

Eileen_Dover wrote:
Jessica2 wrote:KZ, thank you so much for your brilliant thoughts, expertise and time taken to write those.
Justice4all, thank you for converting it, and Eileen, thank you for posting it.
ThirdEye, yes, two beautiful lovely souls were lost long before their time.
R.I.P. Max Shacknai and Rebecca Zahau
Yikes, I didn't post them! KZ posted the links. All credit and thanks should be directed solely towards Justice4All and KZ.

Sorry Eileen:)

by Jessica2 Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:53 pm

I also never understood why on the day that Rebecca died, a lawyer showed up at the scene. They stated they were not called on behalf of Jonah or Dina. Could it have been for Rebecca? Any thoughts?

by HinkySD Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:02 am

Jessica2 wrote:I also never understood why on the day that Rebecca died, a lawyer showed up at the scene. They stated they were not called on behalf of Jonah or Dina. Could it have been for Rebecca? Any thoughts?

Maybe it was for Adam guitar

by Jessica2 Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:07 am

@HinkySD, immediately after what happened Adam voluntarily went with police for questioning and willingly took a polygraph without an attorney. When they asked him if he wanted one, he said no. I don't think the attorney would have allowed him to do that if he were there for Adam. He would have probably advised against it.

by Jessica2 Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:12 am

@HinkySD- if Dina were in any way guilty of anything, wouldn't she stay quiet? Why put herself in the spotlight again? I honestly think Dina is the only hope for answers at the moment.

by HinkySD Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:17 am

Dina was spotted by an eye witness acting frantically in the driveway at 1043 Ocean Blvd minutes before Rebecca's scream for help.

by HinkySD Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:18 am

Nina Romano Englsih Garner came to San Diego to visit her nephew. She is turned away the first night and does not return until 21 hours later. She stays at the hospital one hour and heads for 1043 Ocean Blvd minutes before Rebecca's screams for help.

by HinkySD Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:21 am

Oddly, escaping police, Nina Romano English Garner is able to pry herself from bed on Wednesday morning and head to the hospital to hide behind the Max Shacknai SHIELD with her sister and Jonah.

by HinkySD Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:24 am

Jessica2 wrote:@HinkySD, immediately after what happened Adam voluntarily went with police for questioning and willingly took a polygraph without an attorney. When they asked him if he wanted one, he said no. I don't think the attorney would have allowed him to do that if he were there for Adam. He would have probably advised against it.

Hahaha! Adam was ESCORTED by police!

by Jessica2 Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:28 am

HinkySD wrote:Dina was spotted by an eye witness acting frantically in the driveway at 1043 Ocean Blvd minutes before Rebecca's scream for help.

@HinkySD- is this documented on anything other than radar online? You don't have to provide it, I'm just wondering. I guess investigators keep some stuff away from the public.
The only thing is, why would she put herself in the spotlight again? Wouldn't investigating Max's death bring more attention to her? Not trying to change your mind, I just want to know what people other than me think that's all.

by HinkySD Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:28 am

Jessica2 wrote:@HinkySD- if Dina were in any way guilty of anything, wouldn't she stay quiet? Why put herself in the spotlight again? I honestly think Dina is the only hope for answers at the moment.

Dina is countering her guilt by trying to point the finger for her son's misfortune on Rebecca. Hiding behind her son's accident worked once, didn't it?

by HinkySD Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:31 am

Jessica2 wrote:
HinkySD wrote:Dina was spotted by an eye witness acting frantically in the driveway at 1043 Ocean Blvd minutes before Rebecca's scream for help.

@HinkySD- is this documented on anything other than radar online? You don't have to provide it, I'm just wondering. I guess investigators keep some stuff away from the public.
The only thing is, why would she put herself in the spotlight again? Wouldn't investigating Max's death bring more attention to her? Not trying to change your mind, I just want to know what people other than me think that's all.

Even though she is a family psychologist. When Jonah was trying to split with her she was hitting him and rolling on the ground in the driveway of their home yelling 'You can't leave me! You can't leave me!!!' Wonder who was watching Max while this was going on? It's in the DV reports.

by Jessica2 Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:37 am

[quote="HinkySD"]

Jessica2 wrote:
HinkySD wrote:Dina was spotted by an eye witness acting frantically in the driveway at 1043 Ocean Blvd minutes before Rebecca's scream for help.

@HinkySD- is this documented on anything other than radar online? You don't have to provide it, I'm just wondering. I guess investigators keep some stuff away from the public.
The only thing is, why would she put herself in the spotlight again? Wouldn't investigating Max's death bring more attention to her? Not trying to chanmind, I just want to know what people other than me think that's all.

@Hinky-who cares what a persons past is, that does not make it murder.

by Jessica2 Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:39 am

HinkySD wrote:
Jessica2 wrote:@HinkySD, immediately after what happened Adam voluntarily went with police for questioning and willingly took a polygraph without an attorney. When they asked him if he wanted one, he said no. I don't think the attorney would have allowed him to do that if he were there for Adam. He would have probably advised against it.

Hahaha! Adam was ESCORTED by police!

But if an attorney was there for Adam wouldn't they immediately go to the station with him?

by vegret Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:04 am

ThirdEye wrote:Also, I do not think the Rebecca Zahau suicide can be discussed without discussing Max Shacknai's accident and death. The two are forever linked. Those that believe the SDSO were correct in ruling her death a suicide believe that it is because of Max's accident that she took her life. One cannot be discussed without discussing the other.

Okay. Let us 'discuss' beloved Max and Rebecca being dead. Absolutely Max and Rebecca are/forever linked.

"...Those that believe the SDSO were correct in ruling her death a suicide believe that it is because of Max's accident that she took her life..."

Rebecca Zahau is dead because Max Shacknai is dead. Dina and Nina wanted/needed answers. I believe the twins, along with cutie-pie Adam, were at the death mansion that dreadful night. Jonah Shacknai's three children were also in the death mansion the morning Max Shacknai died.

Jonah Shacknai knows exactly what happened to his beloved son. As did Rebecca Zahau. As do Max's surviving half-siblings.

Many believe the SDSO were incorrect in ruling her death a suicide. Many believe, at best, the investigation was elemental and inept, at worse, a cover up (murder). So there you go.

Fact:
1. Max Shacknai is dead.
2. Rebecca Zahau is dead.
3. Both were found dead at death mansion.
4. All else is merely speculation.

Just My Opinion, of course.

by ThirdEye Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:28 am

HinkySD wrote:Dina was spotted by an eye witness acting frantically in the driveway at 1043 Ocean Blvd minutes before Rebecca's scream for help.

Nice job, HinkySD! You managed to get two rumors in one sentence! Neither of those things are true - Dina was not at the mansion that night, and the scream was from teenagers on the beach.

by ThirdEye Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:31 am

HinkySD wrote:
Jessica2 wrote:@HinkySD, immediately after what happened Adam voluntarily went with police for questioning and willingly took a polygraph without an attorney. When they asked him if he wanted one, he said no. I don't think the attorney would have allowed him to do that if he were there for Adam. He would have probably advised against it.

Hahaha! Adam was ESCORTED by police!

But they CANNOT force a person to take a polygraph. He did so VOLUNTARILY. WithOUT a lawyer present.

by ThirdEye Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:41 am

More Facts:

1. Max's siblings were NOT at the mansion after 6:30 a.m. that Monday morning, only Rebecca and Xena were present.
2. Only Rebecca's DNA was on the knots, and one of the knives. Only Rebecca's fingerprints were on the other knife, the door frame and the door.
3. Dina Shacknai was not at the mansion that night.
4. Adam Shacknai did not see Rebecca after 8 pm that night, did not request a lawyer at the police station, and took the polygraph voluntarily.
5. Rebecca had no defensive wounds.
6. Rebecca could have tied herself up and completed the suicide in 30 minutes or less.
7. Rebecca was upset and her last text to Mary showed that.

by ThirdEye Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:46 am

HinkySD wrote:

Even though she is a family psychologist. When Jonah was trying to split with her she was hitting him and rolling on the ground in the driveway of their home yelling 'You can't leave me! You can't leave me!!!' Wonder who was watching Max while this was going on? It's in the DV reports.

What does this have to do with Rebecca or Max's death?

by Puzzler Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:26 am

The "results" of Adam's LDT were "inconclusive".

by HinkySD Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:12 am

Dina Shacknai was spotted at 1043 Ocean Blvd

The Shacknais, Romanos and those wanting to protect the murderers do not want you to believe the truth about Dina Shacknai!

They try to hide the truth about Dina behind the SHIELD of Max's death. Disgusting! They discount all the evidence against the murderers. They do not want this case to be re-opened. They do not want the public to prosecute the murderers. Too bad! JUSTICE IS COMING REBECCA! One way or another, justice is coming.

As reported by local San Diego news station heavily covering the case:

A passerby did notice a woman at the house that night and reported it to police following Zahau's death July 13. But that witness's description of the woman does not match that of Nina Romano, according to Zahau family attorney Anne Bremner.

In a series of emails and interviews with News 8, Bremner said the witness now believes the woman he saw was Nina's sister, Dina Shacknai.

"The witness sent me a picture of Dina and said it was Dina," according to Bremner, who said the witness was riding a bicycle by the home at approximately 10:20 p.m. on July 12.

"He was going by and saw somebody with a large, black bag trying to get in the front door and looking around and going to the back of the house," Bremner said. "She was 40 to 50 years, 5'5", 170 to 190 lbs., long dark hair; wearing a black and white striped short sleeve shirt," said Bremner.

"He is positive it (was) Dina and she was acting very suspiciously," Bremner wrote. "He has seen subsequent news reports that said Nina was out front and he said that's not the person he saw."

WHY WOULD DINA LIE ABOUT BEING AT THE MANSION? SHE DOESN'T WANT TO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT BEING AT THE MANSION RIGHT BEFORE REBECCA WAS MURDERED?

by HinkySD Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:24 am

Nina Romano English Garner told police she was at 1043 Ocean Blvd late the night of Rebecca's murder.

‘I just wanted to see for myself. That’s why
I went there. I just wanted her to show me how she found him because I didn’t understand’

Neither sister EVER CALLED REBECCA. Nina says she lost her sister that night. NINA LIED DURING HER INTERVIEW TO TRY TO PROTECT HER SISTER FROM MURDER CHARGES.

by vegret Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:26 am

^^^Yeppers it was inconclusive. He was to take another but....also Nina Romano was to submit herself for a LDT. Alas, that never happened....

by HinkySD Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:36 am

Adam Shacknai was at 1043 Ocean Blvd the whole time.

Rebecca was dead a few hours after Adam landed in San Diego. Adam did not tell police that both Dina and Nina were at the mansion that night! Adam did not hear scream for 'Help.' Adam did not hear 'Loud Music' described by others as a loud party! Adam's room had a bay window to the murder 20 feet away. Adam supposedly discovers Rebecca's body 'on cue' as Jonah is RE-APPEARING at RCH!

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