Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #5

by WeeBonnie Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:57 am

Tks Snowbird!
I think all MOM can do is refute the prosecutions evidence because - from what I understand- they have to disprove self defense instead of GZ bearing the burden of proving it. At Talk Left the lawyers think somehow this is doable without GZ taking he stand. I hope you're right about GZ taking the stand. I'm afraid he's learned his lesson however. Now that he realized theres no reconciling his different accounts and hell be humiliated I think he'll chicken out. But if he does testify, I do think hell either totally robotic and rehearsed or will really lose his composure.

snowbird wrote:
WeeBonnie wrote:Cher
From the 711 video he appears to be right handed.
Good catch!

I read somewhere BDLR said witnesses not witness when referring to the chase.

I'm wondering what evidence Lester is reviewing - are they submitting more info about the missing cash and Susie-Gracies accounts? Or is he just accepting half asses answers now?

Did MOM submit evidence only that it's a weaker case?
I guess it's best for the prosecution to fight back full force this early.

I read also that MOM will testify when the time is right.
I call BS, they will not allow him to be crossed.
Also- now the bond will be paid out of GZs account!!? I thought MOM said the opposite a few weeks ago.
He has been saying that the bond could not be used from the money that they are collecting from people. I kept calling that He also said that people were giving donation of $100, however the guy on the stand said that the donation were of $20.00.
Even if the money is in trust, it is still Georges money, I know there was no way George would sit in jail while his attorney had this money in trust.
I would think even if they don't go for he had a right to shot him because of the gun laws, George is going to have to get on the stand even in self defense. I think George wants to get on the stand, I don't think that he will sit quiet while all this plays out. After all occurring to his attorney he gave 11 statements to try to prove his case.

by snowbird Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 am

I could not watch the whole hearing?

Did Bernie object to this little mimi trail?

by CherokeeNative Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:02 am

WeeBonnie wrote:Cher
From the 711 video he appears to be right handed.
Good catch!

I read somewhere BDLR said witnesses not witness when referring to the chase.

I'm wondering what evidence Lester is reviewing - are they submitting more info about the missing cash and Susie-Gracies accounts? Or is he just accepting half asses answers now?

Did MOM submit evidence only that it's a weaker case?
I guess it's best for the prosecution to fight back full force this early.

I read also that MOM will testify when the time is right.
I call BS, they will not allow him to be crossed.
Also- now the bond will be paid out of GZs account!!? I thought MOM said the opposite a few weeks ago.

The Judge is reviewing everything that the defense and the prosecution handed in as exhibits - including a thumb drive. There was also evidence that the defense offered that had not been redacted appropriately and MOM was to redact them and then submit them to the Judge for review. There is no new evidence that he will be reviewing...just what they discussed at the hearing. It is not unusual for a Judge to take a motion under submission to allow him to sit in the confines of his office and slowly review the evidence and research applicable statutes and case authority in order to make his final decision. Judge Lester will most likely issue a "findings of fact and conclusions of law" within his order like he did the last time.

by CherokeeNative Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:09 am

WeeBonnie wrote:Tks Snowbird!
I think all MOM can do is refute the prosecutions evidence because - from what I understand- they have to disprove self defense instead of GZ bearing the burden of proving it. At Talk Left the lawyers think somehow this is doable without GZ taking he stand. I hope you're right about GZ taking the stand. I'm afraid he's learned his lesson however. Now that he realized theres no reconciling his different accounts and hell be humiliated I think he'll chicken out. But if he does testify, I do think hell either totally robotic and rehearsed or will really lose his composure.

snowbird wrote:
He has been saying that the bond could not be used from the money that they are collecting from people. I kept calling that He also said that people were giving donation of $100, however the guy on the stand said that the donation were of $20.00.
Even if the money is in trust, it is still Georges money, I know there was no way George would sit in jail while his attorney had this money in trust.
I would think even if they don't go for he had a right to shot him because of the gun laws, George is going to have to get on the stand even in self defense. I think George wants to get on the stand, I don't think that he will sit quiet while all this plays out. After all occurring to his attorney he gave 11 statements to try to prove his case.

BDLR (Bernie) brought his up yesterday in the hearing - despite what TalkLeft thinks - First, the burden will be on the defense at a SYG motion to prove self-defense...the exact opposite as what happens at trial where the burden is on the prosecution. If the defense does not bring a SYg Motion and only claims self-defense at trial, then the burden is on the prosecution. The only way that GZ's statements to LE or the reenactment can be admitted into evidence at trial or a SYG motion is IF the prosecution submits it....the defense can't rely upon it if it isn't submitted by the prosecution. So, the prosecution is going to withhold submitting GZ's statements and video reenactment, thereby forcing GZ to take the stand in order to claim self-defense. Once GZ does that, they will not only rip him a new one on cross, but they will then offer the statements and reenactment into evidence to show the jury the many discrepancies in GZ's stories.

by ellejay Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:11 am

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1206/29/ebo.01.html
ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT--June 29/2012.

--snipped--

And now, our fifth story OUTFRONT: George Zimmerman remains behind bars tonight as a Florida judge decides whether to let him out on bond. Defense attorney Mark O'Mara called four witnesses at a hearing today, including an emergency responder who was there that night -- you're going to hear what he had to say in a moment -- a probation officer and George Zimmerman's father who testified it was his son and not Trayvon Martin calling for help in the background of this 911 call.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911: OK. Does he look hurt to you?

CALLER: I can't see him. I don't want to go out there. I don't know what's going on so -- they're sending --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help!

911: So, do you think he's yelling help?

CALLER: Yes.

911: All right. What is your --

(GUNSHOT)

(END AUDIO CLIP) BURNETT: And you hear the shot.

The defense also called a financial expert to explain why so Zimmerman was transferring money between several family bank accounts before his first bond hearing. The bond hearing of course at which he did not disclose the money that he had.

I spoke to Mark O'Mara before the show. And I asked him if he was concerned about this exchange concerning Zimmerman's money.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would somebody -- if I gave you $1 million and you put it into an account, yours, but if you put it into three other people's in this courtroom's account, why would you do that?

ADAM MAGILL, FINANCIAL EXPERT: Well, either you'd be gifting or you'd be trying to keep under FDIC limits. There's multiple reasons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hide maybe the money?

MAGILL: Well, hiding is actually done by cash. You don't hide money by transferring money to banking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In terms if somebody's trying to figure out how much money you have in your checking account?

MAGILL: If you only look at the person, that's correct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Mark, what's your response to that? It does seem so strange, moving money from account to account, all in amounts under $10,000 and then not being honest about it in the court.

MARK O'MARA, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: You know, and it always sounds like I'm trying to offer a strange explanation or excuse from my client. I don't want to do that. But if PayPal says you cannot move more than $10,000 out at a time and you have literally $200,000 coming in in an 11-day period, they were moving it out in $9,000 increments into one or the other of George's and Shellie's account.

And it wasn't quite clear, but they were also moving some of it to the sister's account, because they could do $10,000, $10,000 and $10,000 -- $30,000 at a time, into those accounts. They then moved it from the sister's account into Shellie's or George's. Look, there's no question that they had $130,000 or $150,000. That when the issue was presented, Shellie Zimmerman didn't answer as truthfully as she should have. We're dealing with the fallout from that.

But the reason why I brought the expert in is was to say not a penny of that money is missing. I think that's at least as relevant as to why they were bouncing it back and forth $9,000 at a time. BURNETT: You had an EMT first responder today. I thought what they had to say was pretty powerful. The person who had attended George Zimmerman on the night of the killing.

( who cares if the money is all accounted for?---the "POINT" omara, is that they LIED about it in the 1st place..but, nice shift of focus..)

Here's what he had to say about George.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM O'ROURKE, EMT/FIRE FIGHTER, SANFORD FIRE DEPT.: I observed that he had blood on his face and the back of his head.

UNIDENTIFEID MALE: And did you consider that it was likely his nose was broken?

O'ROURKE: Absolutely.

UNIDENTIFIEDMALE: Was swelling and --

O'ROURKE: There was -- there was swelling and blood. And his nose was obviously deformed from what it usually is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And obviously that was powerful in favor of George Zimmerman's case. He's trying to say he feared for his life.

But what we've been look at, the past few days, is the reenactment, when the day after George Zimmerman went back to say what happened. And here's what he said then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: He was just focused on my head. The little -- bruising there. There's a cut here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The swelling went down. I remember yesterday seeing swelling around right here. I don't see it now.

ZIMMERMAN: My wife is an RN student so she went to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Mark, obviously, you couldn't see that but I know you have seen it. You know, it's just like a little bandage on the back of his head. He said he only needed -- he didn't even need stitches. This is a guy who's trying to say his head was being slammed repeatedly against cement and he was in fear for his life. I mean, you know, you would think it would look worse.

O'MARA: That's going to be up for the judge or a fact finder. I could go back and forth on the real question that I think needs to be focused on. And that evidence that you just pointed out sort of helps us. But the real evidence that needs to be focused on is, what would the next strike have caused? Because, after all, what you have to look at is what was George thinking was going on? That's the whole issue. That is the essence of self-defense. So if in fact the next strike would have been another slamming of the head on the concrete -- I don't think there's anyone to deny that. Let's remember, we have an eyewitness who came in and said through his statement that's now in evidence that he was -- the man on top who he believed to be in the hoodie and had the orange-shirted person on the bottom, George Zimmerman, was raining MMA blows on him and used the term "ground and pound." I would invite you to go on YouTube and do a Google search for ground and pound and watch some of the videos. To maybe get a feel for what may have been happen.

( omara conveniently leaves out the part where that witness later took back that (MMA/ground and pound) part of his testimony...)

We have to look at what could have continued to happen.

BURNETT: Ground and pound. Mixed martial arts. I'm quickly Googling it. Just to get a sense of what it is.

So, what is -- what is your feeling? Is your client prepared for this bail decision to go either way? What is his mental state right now? How stable is he?

O'MARA: He is most worried about his wife, Shellie. He truly is. He wants to get out. He understands he's in the position he's in because of what happened at the bond hearing. And nobody but Shellie and he had control over that.

He's willing to deal with the fallout from that if he has to.

BURNETT: And how much money have you raised now? I know that the fund- raising had continued obviously. But how much additional money has been raised since that first hearing?

O'MARA: I think there's been about $211,000 in the account now. There certainly has been money expended. And, quite honestly, in the last week or two, we spent quite a bit money getting ready for this and a lot of preparation it took for this. It's getting spent now too.(sob.)

(*HINT----supporter$$$$$----dig deep friends, send more....)

BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you very much, Mark. Always good to speak with you. Appreciate your time.

by snowbird Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:27 am

MOM makes it sound that Shellie was the only one that lied, they are trying to hang her for this, but in the next breath he saids that George is worried about Shellie. If he was really worried about his wife he would man up and not let her take the fall. I believe this was discussed before George went to jail that is why she new their code talk such as peter pan. I even believe that she said on one of the tapes about taking care of this because he was worried about it before he went to jail. George needs to man up and not let his wife face these charges alone. I hope her family talk some since into her that she doesn't take this fall alone.

by CherokeeNative Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:30 am

ellejay wrote:---'Cher'

--you mentioned in a post upthread about kc being kept in jail for the duration of her case-----yes, it was b/c she couldn't make the initial $500,000.00 (july 2008) bond (until the fiasco called len padilla swooped in from california)---once she was indicted (in oct 2008) for 1st degree murder, she was then held on a No Bond status.

Thanks Ellejay - that refreshes my memory.

by CherokeeNative Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:34 am

snowbird wrote:MOM makes it sound that Shellie was the only one that lied, they are trying to hang her for this, but in the next breath he saids that George is worried about Shellie. If he was really worried about his wife he would man up and not let her take the fall. I believe this was discussed before George went to jail that is why she new their code talk such as peter pan. I even believe that she said on one of the tapes about taking care of this because he was worried about it before he went to jail. George needs to man up and not let his wife face these charges alone. I hope her family talk some since into her that she doesn't take this fall alone.

GZ is a weazle if you ask me, but even if he grew some and faced accountability, that would not let Shellie off the hook. She took an oath under penalty of perjury and then clearly lied to the Court. She's busted and I don't see a defense to that - even if GZ admitted that he was the master-mind behind the entire scheme.

by serenaz1 Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:35 am

KZ wrote:Lol, Serenaz.

Sounds like a B novel....

"It was a dark and stormy night....."

That's exactly what I thought of the first time I read Z's statement! It's such a 'canned' thing, especially when he used it twice. I think he had some of his story planned out in advance in his screwed-up head, it's like he had bits & pieces that he could plug into any situation to show self-defense.

by snowbird Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:38 am

CherokeeNative wrote:
snowbird wrote:MOM makes it sound that Shellie was the only one that lied, they are trying to hang her for this, but in the next breath he saids that George is worried about Shellie. If he was really worried about his wife he would man up and not let her take the fall. I believe this was discussed before George went to jail that is why she new their code talk such as peter pan. I even believe that she said on one of the tapes about taking care of this because he was worried about it before he went to jail. George needs to man up and not let his wife face these charges alone. I hope her family talk some since into her that she doesn't take this fall alone.

GZ is a weazle if you ask me, but even if he grew some and faced accountability, that would not let Shellie off the hook. She took an oath under penalty of perjury and then clearly lied to the Court. She's busted and I don't see a defense to that - even if GZ admitted that he was the master-mind behind the entire scheme.

No, I don't believe she will get off lying but like you I believe he was the master-mind of the scheme and I hope it comes out in defending her. As we have seen with this case must defense blame someone else, so I am hoping it comes out that George is the master - mind and is so controlling she had no choice but to help her husband. Laughing

At least I can hope.

by CherokeeNative Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:41 am

Couple of things from yesterday's hearing.

1. Wasn't the name "Kevin" the name that we were trying to figure out who it was on the jail-house tapes? And then, the paramedic's name was "Kevin"? Most likely a coincidence, but just thought I would bring it up.

2. Did anyone else notice that Frank Taffe was sitting in the courtroom?

3. I was surprised to see Special Prosecutor Corey actually sitting at the prosecution's table - am I the only one? Usually, the Special Prosecutor appoints a deputy prosecutor (BDLR) and leaves it to him/her to handle the case in court - the fact that she is taking a personal interest in this case is notable in my opinion.

by Porky Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:43 am

I am not sure if i posted this here but O'Mara very beautifully handed Corey and De LaRonda the *perfect* closing argument. They should play a video of O'Mara in court stating that his client was less than truthful because he did not trust the system. I would then say you are absolutely right and that's exactly why your client would not wait for the police and that is exactly why he lied about the events of that evening.

by ellejay Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:44 am

CherokeeNative wrote:Couple of things from yesterday's hearing.

1. Wasn't the name "Kevin" the name that we were trying to figure out who it was on the jail-house tapes? And then, the paramedic's name was "Kevin"? Most likely a coincidence, but just thought I would bring it up.

2. Did anyone else notice that Frank Taffe was sitting in the courtroom?

3. I was surprised to see Special Prosecutor Corey actually sitting at the prosecution's table - am I the only one? Usually, the Special Prosecutor appoints a deputy prosecutor (BDLR) and leaves it to him/her to handle the case in court - the fact that she is taking a personal interest in this case is notable in my opinion.

--the guy in the jail tapes was "ken" (or some thought possibly "kent".)

--yep, saw taaffe , sitting in the same place he sat at the 1st bond hearing..

--yes! totally surprised (and happy) to see angela corey there in the flesh, i'm thinking this ISN'T the norm for her..

by CherokeeNative Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:47 am

serenaz1 wrote:
KZ wrote:Lol, Serenaz.

Sounds like a B novel....

"It was a dark and stormy night....."

That's exactly what I thought of the first time I read Z's statement! It's such a 'canned' thing, especially when he used it twice. I think he had some of his story planned out in advance in his screwed-up head, it's like he had bits & pieces that he could plug into any situation to show self-defense.

I agree Serenaz. I have maintained all along that I believe GZ (and most likely Taffe and Shellie) had ran different scenarios through his mind of what he would do if one of his "suspects" ever turned on him when doing his routine surveillance including how he would respond to LE questions in order to be able to make a self-defense claim believeable. That's the type of "dude" he is...it's his persona.

by Alessandra_Deux Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:47 am

snowbird wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:

GZ is a weazle if you ask me, but even if he grew some and faced accountability, that would not let Shellie off the hook. She took an oath under penalty of perjury and then clearly lied to the Court. She's busted and I don't see a defense to that - even if GZ admitted that he was the master-mind behind the entire scheme.
No, I don't believe she will get off lying but like you I believe he was the master-mind of the scheme and I hope it comes out in defending her. As we have seen with this case must defense blame someone else, so I am hoping it comes out that George is the master - mind and is so controlling she had no choice but to help her husband. At least I can hope.

O'Mara said that "Zimmerman told Shellie to tell the truth". I guess Zimmerman is not going to come forward to admit culpability in order to help her.

by ellejay Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:52 am

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/

Statement Regarding June 29 Bond Hearing for George Zimmerman on 29 June 2012.

"In today’s hearing, as part of the defense team’s presentation on the Motion to Set Reasonable Bond, evidence was introduced to the court to show the weaknesses in the State’s murder case against Mr. Zimmerman and to support Mr. Zimmerman’s consistently maintained position that he acted in self defense. Further, we submitted evidence through the testimony of a forensic expert verifying that all the money in question has been properly accounted for. The Court will review the evidence submitted, and we anticipate a decision on bond will be made early next week. The defense requested that the court reinstate the original $150,000 bond."

by serenaz1 Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:53 am

KZ wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:I particularly noticed that GZ likes to talk "cop" - throughout his statements he uses "suspect", "clearing" the residence, lost "visual", etc. So IMO GZ really saw himself as LE of his own little community.

Completely agree. His use of "cop language" reminds me a lot of Lee Anthony's statements. They are always "exiting their vehicles", never "getting out of the car"! Trying to sound more important, or more intelligent, or part of the LE club.

GZ's written statement sounds a lot like a report filed by someone at work, not someone who just committed a shooting. He sure didn't use that kind of language on his old MySpace or FB account. But then, he was appealing to his "homies".

In particular, GZ's use of the word "suspect" is very, very bad for GZ's credibility. I think he used "suspect" more than once, IIRC. That bothers me a lot, and I think it may bother potential jurors, too. It was written close in time to the shooting, so it's indicative of his wannabe cop persona, imo.

I have a hard time reconciling that method of speaking and writing with self defense by a layperson. Nothing about that statement sounds like actual self defense to me-- it sounds like justification.

I so agree with this train of thought. But, Barney Fife would make a better cop than George!

by ellejay Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:58 am

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/06/29/judge-to-decide-bond-fate-of-george-zimmerman-friday/
Judge Delays Decision In George Zimmerman Bond Status

--snipped--

George Zimmerman did not take the stand to avoid cross examination by the state.
( although omara tried to get in another "I am sorry Judge...."statement ONLY---the judge shot that down..)

In his summary, O’Mara said the big issue was a perceived violation of trust. O’Mara said the Zimmermans moved the money around because they didn’t know who to trust. It was never their intent to hide it from the court, but to hide it from those who weren’t entitled to it and may go after it. He pointed out that in the 30 hours of audio tapes released which included conversations between Zimmerman and his wife, there was no evidence that they attempted to intentionally deceive the court. O’Mara said there was no grand conspiracy. He said when he asked the Zimmerman’s for the money, they transferred it to him the following day. O’Mara said Zimmerman should have stepped forward and told the truth when his wife lied. He pointed out that he has been truthful and cooperative throughout the investigation except for that one mis-step.

..mis-truths, and now mis-steps....

by snowbird Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:02 pm

I think that him taking college courses in law, that he thought he new the gun laws and what to say to defend himself. That is why he keep talking, he new what to say and he could not believe that they were not taking his word. The problem that George had is that the evidence doesn't match what he was saying. The evidence stated in his written statement when he kept calling Martin a suspect and their was no evident that Martin was a suspect of anything. I find it also strange that you would shot a guy and not check to see if he was living but would ask someone to help you restrain the guy. If he would have had the fear that he said he had he would have shot and continue screaming for help and gotten away from the guy who was banging his head in. He would not have been cool as a cucumber and try to restrain the suspect.
In George's mine he just can't believe that the police don't believe him because he did what any police would do to a suspect that was fighting them. After all he caught the bad guy, remember I said that this is all in his mine and not reality.

by snowbird Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:04 pm

ellejay wrote:
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/06/29/judge-to-decide-bond-fate-of-george-zimmerman-friday/
Judge Delays Decision In George Zimmerman Bond Status

--snipped--

George Zimmerman did not take the stand to avoid cross examination by the state.
( although omara tried to get in another "I am sorry Judge...."statement ONLY---the judge shot that down..)

In his summary, O’Mara said the big issue was a perceived violation of trust. O’Mara said the Zimmermans moved the money around because they didn’t know who to trust. It was never their intent to hide it from the court, but to hide it from those who weren’t entitled to it and may go after it. He pointed out that in the 30 hours of audio tapes released which included conversations between Zimmerman and his wife, there was no evidence that they attempted to intentionally deceive the court. O’Mara said there was no grand conspiracy. He said when he asked the Zimmerman’s for the money, they transferred it to him the following day. O’Mara said Zimmerman should have stepped forward and told the truth when his wife lied. He pointed out that he has been truthful and cooperative throughout the investigation except for that one mis-step.

..mis-truths, and now mis-steps....

Well, we did see this in another case. Laughing

The must all go to the Thesaurus to look up words for lying to make it sound better. Laughing

by serenaz1 Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:08 pm

ecossie possie wrote:Different Investigator...After you shot him...keep on going..what did he say.

Zimmerman...I got(?) him...he like sat up

Different Investigator...you're still in this position basically, you're laying down here, you shot him so he's in the grass
.........................................................................................How could Trayvon sit up if he was already astride GZ......And if it is Frank Taffes residence that GZ points out as being burgled ..Is he not a member of neighbourhoodwatch also..An yet he still leaves his door unlocked acording to GZ beyond flakey I M O.......

Yeah, I find that very strange too! With the burglaries they had, 4 of the 5 were non-force and two were construction sites. Even when I'm home, all my doors are locked.

Our PD just put out a statement saying people should always acknowledge someone at their door. Don't open it, but let the person know someone is home. So like the burglary where Z says the woman was attacked (she wasn't, another lie), if she would've asked 'who's there?' or something like that, the thieves probably would have moved on. Instead she hid and they came through her open back door.

by ellejay Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:08 pm

http://gzdefensefund.com/donate/index.php/why-people-donate
--GZDEFENSEFUND---Why People Donate

Who Is Giving to the Zimmerman Defense Fund?

Since the George Zimmerman Defense Fund was launched on May 3rd, it has received steady support. It has also been the object of some complaints and concerns.

The fund exists because there is a demand for it. The defense team considered assisting in the establishment of a fund after learning that Mr. Zimmerman had begun a defense fund on his own before our involvement. A decision was made to terminate that fund as it was not established within appropriate regulations. Further, we believe it is not appropriate in this case for Mr. Zimmerman to continue this activity individually. As Mr. Zimmerman’s advocates, we felt a responsibility to establish an independent fund in a proper way.

Fundraising has been a tried and true method for raising both awareness and funds for a myriad of causes. Mr. Zimmerman’s defense of these charges has hit a chord in many people to such an extent that they feel compelled to assist, and to speak their voice in response to the publicity surrounding this case. Our approach has been to make the fund available to those who which to contribute. While it is true that some of the funds will be used to pay legal fees, there is no prohibition to such a system which allows people to show their support by financial contribution.

As donations have come in, many donors have shared their reasons for contributing. Here are the top reasons, with quotes from supporters, whose names have been kept confidential.

1. They feel that Mr. Zimmerman has been unfairly treated by the media, and that he has in fact been the target of a coordinated public relations smear campaign.

“I am so appalled by how the media has worked the nation, if not the world, into such a frenzy of hate, that it has evoked sympathy in me for the Zimmermans.”

“The media made a monster out of a man without releasing real details as to why.”

2. They feel that Mr. Zimmerman deserves a fair trial and deserves access to strong representation, and they suspect his opportunity for both has been compromised by his portrayal in the media.

“I think they only charged him to appease everyone who had already considered him guilty because of all the inaccurate information reported by the media.”

“They have made him seem guilty before knowing all the facts. He should be innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.”

3. They are inclined to believe Mr. Zimmerman’s claims of self-defense; they identify with Mr. Zimmerman, and feel they would behave the same way in a similar situation.

“I have paid close attention to this case and believe in my heart George did what he had to do to protect himself as would I.”

“Good Luck George... what is done to one of us is done to all of us.”

4. They support the 2nd Amendment and they feel that Mr. Zimmerman’s case is being turned into a referendum on gun laws.

“I believe Zimmerman was right in protecting himself and I don't want bad case law for future gun right cases.”

“I support GZ because I believe in innocent until proven guilty. I support the right to a fair trial. I support the 2nd Amendment. I support the SYG law. I believe something must be done about irresponsible journalism.”

by serenaz1 Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:11 pm

Marica wrote:This statement that someone tended to leave their doors unlocked bothers me. Sort of like an invitation to be robbed.. Were these guys trying set a trap/encourage a burglary?

LOL, I almost put this in my last post before I'd read yours. With Frank & George, I would NOT put it past them!

by ecossie possie Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:17 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:
b2b, I keep telling you...have faith. It is still very, very early in the case.CB, you're gonna have to tell me that a few trillion times. I am just so worried. O'Mara scares me. I don't like how he's going about this. .
back2back19

Posts: 241
Join date: 2012-05-29
Age: 32

by serenaz1 Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:22 pm

ellejay, I forgot to ask you about this statement you posted;

"2. And this is a medical issue - Doesn't "right-dominant blood flow" from ME report means Trayvon was right-handed? The tiny abrasion on his ring finger was on the LEFT! If this is correct as far as being right handed, Trayvon's injury didn't come from swinging a punch at GZ."

Is that referencing TM's blood in his brain or where?

by alabama52 Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:25 pm

I am so sick of people blaming the media instead of searching for the truth!!!
I am mad as hell about it!!!

by alabama52 Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:29 pm

serenaz1 wrote:
Marica wrote:This statement that someone tended to leave their doors unlocked bothers me. Sort of like an invitation to be robbed.. Were these guys trying set a trap/encourage a burglary?

LOL, I almost put this in my last post before I'd read yours. With Frank & George, I would NOT put it past them!

I do wonder where Frankie T, the Klansman, was that night. Yesterday, in court, he was either trying desparately to make eye contact with George or get face-time on camera. It was funny how he kept moving his head side to side & up.

by ellejay Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:30 pm

serenaz1 wrote:ellejay, I forgot to ask you about this statement you posted;

"2. And this is a medical issue - Doesn't "right-dominant blood flow" from ME report means Trayvon was right-handed? The tiny abrasion on his ring finger was on the LEFT! If this is correct as far as being right handed, Trayvon's injury didn't come from swinging a punch at GZ."

Is that referencing TM's blood in his brain or where?

--that was a post from Cher...

by ellejay Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:40 pm

alabama52 wrote:

I do wonder where Frankie T, the Klansman, was that night. Yesterday, in court, he was either trying desparately to make eye contact with George or get face-time on camera. It was funny how he kept moving his head side to side & up.

--yeah, and i was surprised to NOT see him on JVM or somewhere after the hearing, he usually manages to get invited by someone (to spout off his nonsense..)

--also, it was mentioned (by someone) upthread that taaffe probably owns a gun , but doesn't have a CW permit-----he can't own one, b/c of his felony conviction back in the day----he did say in an earlier article that he questioned why george would have a gun while on patrol rather than a taser, or pepper spray...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html
Shooter of Trayvon Martin a habitual caller to cops
March 21/2012

--snipped--
At the focal point of a shooting scandal: a mild-mannered neighbor who fixated on crime and focused on young, black males.

Problems in the 6-year-old community started during the recession, when foreclosures forced owners to rent out to “low-lifes and gangsters,” said Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood block captain.

“Just two weeks before this shooting, George called me at my girlfriend’s house to say he saw some black guy doing surveillance at my house, because I had a left a window open,” Taaffe said. “He thwarted a potential burglary of my house.”

Taaffe sounded chagrined when he noted that the complex is now majority-minority. Census figures show Retreat at Twin Lakes is 49 percent white, non-Hispanic, 23 percent Hispanic, 20 percent African-American and 5 percent Asian.

He suspects Zimmerman got tired of thugs “and reached his breaking point,” Taaffe said. “But why was he carrying a gun? Why not carry pepper spray or a Taser? That’s bizarre-o.”

Taaffe said Zimmerman was so normal that he came across as though he were “an engineer from Lockheed Martin.” He did not show up to homeowner association meetings Rambo-style “wearing a bandana around his head with a bowie knife sticking out of his pocket,” Taaffe said.

by ellejay Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:46 pm

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Mark-OMara-back-in-court---George-Zimmerman-awaits-ruling-on-second-bond-after-mini-trial--VIDEO-160945175.html#ixzz1zIFfCP1c
Mark O’Mara back in court - George Zimmerman awaits ruling on second bond after mini-trial

--snipped--

Mark O’Mara, his defense lawyer, argued that Zimmerman had misled the court because he was confused and distrusted the justice system. He called several witnesses including Zimmerman’s probation officer and his father, Robert.

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

by ellejay Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:49 pm

ellejay wrote:
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Mark-OMara-back-in-court---George-Zimmerman-awaits-ruling-on-second-bond-after-mini-trial--VIDEO-160945175.html#ixzz1zIFfCP1c
Mark O’Mara back in court - George Zimmerman awaits ruling on second bond after mini-trial

--snipped--

Mark O’Mara, his defense lawyer, argued that Zimmerman had misled the court because he was confused and distrusted the justice system. He called several witnesses including Zimmerman’s probation officer and his father, Robert.

---why did omara bother to file his bond hearing witness list, that only had the names of the 2 bondsmen on it----when he didn't even call them, instead went ahead and called the finance guy, medic, probation officer, dad....??

by WeeBonnie Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:56 pm

You're absolutely right Snowbird. That's why his story is so very off.
He said that Trayvon banged his head and was in fear for his life, and went for the gun- and later added that Trayvon issued a specific threat that he was going to kill him.
All that was to support the SYG claim. That's why it sounds very detailed and odd because he claims he can't remember so many other details. That's why he claims Trayvon jumped out of nowhere. It's no accident that every detail that he added later or has discrepancies is a detail that would help him prove SYG.
He knew what he had to say, and piled it on. IMHO he piled on a bit too much adding to his testimony.

snowbird wrote:I think that him taking college courses in law, that he thought he new the gun laws and what to say to defend himself. That is why he keep talking, he new what to say and he could not believe that they were not taking his word. The problem that George had is that the evidence doesn't match what he was saying. The evidence stated in his written statement when he kept calling Martin a suspect and their was no evident that Martin was a suspect of anything. I find it also strange that you would shot a guy and not check to see if he was living but would ask someone to help you restrain the guy. If he would have had the fear that he said he had he would have shot and continue screaming for help and gotten away from the guy who was banging his head in. He would not have been cool as a cucumber and try to restrain the suspect.
In George's mine he just can't believe that the police don't believe him because he did what any police would do to a suspect that was fighting them. After all he caught the bad guy, remember I said that this is all in his mine and not reality.

by ellejay Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:57 pm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/48024865#48024865

The Today Show---Saturday, June 30/2012 5:40

Will Judge Set Zimmerman Free?

George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #5 - Page 2 Omarajune30

George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #5 - Page 2 Omarajune30

--omara interviewed, also clip from yesterday's hearing shown...

--omara--"mr. martin was shot b/c he had broken somebody's nose, and he had gotten him on the ground and he had smashed his head against a cement walkway at least twice---then, he got shot and he was killed b/c of his own doing".

by serenaz1 Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:03 pm

ellejay wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:ellejay, I forgot to ask you about this statement you posted;

"2. And this is a medical issue - Doesn't "right-dominant blood flow" from ME report means Trayvon was right-handed? The tiny abrasion on his ring finger was on the LEFT! If this is correct as far as being right handed, Trayvon's injury didn't come from swinging a punch at GZ."

Is that referencing TM's blood in his brain or where?

--that was a post from Cher...

Oopsie! I'd copied it to my notes file, but didn't put the author, sorry. :)

So then, CherokeeNation this question is for you! :)

by CherokeeNative Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:07 pm

ellejay wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:ellejay, I forgot to ask you about this statement you posted;

"2. And this is a medical issue - Doesn't "right-dominant blood flow" from ME report means Trayvon was right-handed? The tiny abrasion on his ring finger was on the LEFT! If this is correct as far as being right handed, Trayvon's injury didn't come from swinging a punch at GZ."

Is that referencing TM's blood in his brain or where?

--that was a post from Cher...

Serenaz - I got that from the medical examiner's report on Trayvon. I don't believe I recieved and answer to this post. Maybe Chickenbutt or KZ can answer the question. My understanding is that Trayvon was right handed and the injury to his finger was on the left hand.

by ellejay Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:15 pm

--omara to judgeL:

--omara--"mr. martin was shot b/c he had broken somebody's nose, and he had gotten him on the ground and he had smashed his head against a cement walkway at least twice---then, he got shot and he was killed b/c of his own doing".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--ellejay to omara:

--"your client sits in jail b/c----his bond was yanked! and he was ordered back to the slammer for being a Big Fat LIAR-----or, as you would say "b/c of his own doing".

by WeeBonnie Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:16 pm

CherokeeNative wrote:[
Wow, Cher interesting.
Its interesting the defense can't enter in his statements unless he is taking the stand. MOM must be trying to figure out a work around.
Is he going to pull a Baez and try to do all the talking for his client and put the whole story out there in his opening statements? Is a judge allowed to stop an attorney from doing this?
Would they allow in the NEN call and 911s only?
Sorry for so many questions!

[quote/ Cher]
BDLR (Bernie) brought his up yesterday in the hearing - despite what TalkLeft thinks - First, the burden will be on the defense at a SYG motion to prove self-defense...the exact opposite as what happens at trial where the burden is on the prosecution. If the defense does not bring a SYg Motion and only claims self-defense at trial, then the burden is on the prosecution. The only way that GZ's statements to LE or the reenactment can be admitted into evidence at trial or a SYG motion is IF the prosecution submits it....the defense can't rely upon it if it isn't submitted by the prosecution. So, the prosecution is going to withhold submitting GZ's statements and video reenactment, thereby forcing GZ to take the stand in order to claim self-defense. Once GZ does that, they will not only rip him a new one on cross, but they will then offer the statements and reenactment into evidence to show the jury the many discrepancies in GZ's stories.

by alabama52 Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:21 pm

ellejay wrote:
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Mark-OMara-back-in-court---George-Zimmerman-awaits-ruling-on-second-bond-after-mini-trial--VIDEO-160945175.html#ixzz1zIFfCP1c
Mark O’Mara back in court - George Zimmerman awaits ruling on second bond after mini-trial

--snipped--

Mark O’Mara, his defense lawyer, argued that Zimmerman had misled the court because he was confused and distrusted the justice system. He called several witnesses including Zimmerman’s probation officer and his father, Robert.

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

If only MOM had finished his 'mistrust' statement with, "and this is, also, why George Zimmerman took the law into his own hands & shot an unarmed teenager. George did not trust any cop (but himself, of course) & did what he had to do to rid society of teenagers."

by CherokeeNative Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:21 pm

ellejay wrote:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/48024865#48024865

The Today Show---Saturday, June 30/2012 5:40

Will Judge Set Zimmerman Free?

--omara interviewed, also clip from yesterday's hearing shown...

--omara--"mr. martin was shot b/c he had broken somebody's nose, and he had gotten him on the ground and he had smashed his head against a cement walkway at least twice---then, he got shot and he was killed b/c of his own doing".

MOM is really really getting on my last nerve by blaming this on Trayvon. Trayvon was not the aggressor in this case and if he caused any of GZ's injuries, which I question, it was because he was utilizing his own SYG rights by defending himself against a crazed gun-toting cop-wanna-be. Trayvon had no way of knowing whether GZ was a skinhead, a Mexican gang member enforcing his turf, or a pedofile. MOM can defend this case without bashing Trayvon - he is crossing the line IMO - and I hope the community and public in general make it known that this is not acceptable. It is one thing to go before the trier-of-fact and put forth this B.S. if it is necessary to properly defend the case, but he does not need to be doing it on the media. It is completely disrespectful to Trayvon's parents and offensive to me as a citizen. I just may write a letter... telling him Finger

by WeeBonnie Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:24 pm

I rewatched the 711 video. He holds the Arizona in his right hand and also digs in both pockets, but hands over the cash with his right hand.
I think the lack of injuries to both their hands indicates it was more of a grappling situation. And George hit his head. I'm guessing the cries started when Trayvon saw the gun. And during this time GZ was weighing the sad and legally screwed up fact that he would like be in MORE trouble if he left this witness alive.
GZ would have his gun taken away if he left an innocent witness.
He killed Trayvon knowing he could make an SYG claim and walk easier than if he had just detained and threatened him.
And that's what is so messed up with that law.

CherokeeNative wrote:
ellejay wrote:

--that was a post from Cher...

Serenaz - I got that from the medical examiner's report on Trayvon. I don't believe I recieved and answer to this post. Maybe Chickenbutt or KZ can answer the question. My understanding is that Trayvon was right handed and the injury to his finger was on the left hand.

by CherokeeNative Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:24 pm

alabama52 wrote:
ellejay wrote:
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Mark-OMara-back-in-court---George-Zimmerman-awaits-ruling-on-second-bond-after-mini-trial--VIDEO-160945175.html#ixzz1zIFfCP1c
Mark O’Mara back in court - George Zimmerman awaits ruling on second bond after mini-trial

--snipped--

Mark O’Mara, his defense lawyer, argued that Zimmerman had misled the court because he was confused and distrusted the justice system. He called several witnesses including Zimmerman’s probation officer and his father, Robert.

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

If only MOM had finished his 'mistrust' statement with, "and this is, also, why George Zimmerman took the law into his own hands & shot an unarmed teenager. George did not trust any cop (but himself, of course) & did what he had to do to rid society of teenagers."

and it is why I made up the stories about self-defense, head bashing, etc., because I did not trust LE or the judicial system to understand that I was merely protecting my community against these suspects... and that I did a good thing by ridding our community of one less thug

by CherokeeNative Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:27 pm

WeeBonnie - you may be right. Haven't we been told that the CWP classes teach the students to shoot to kill so as to leave no one to dispute your self-defense claim? Evil or Very Mad

by alabama52 Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:28 pm

CN, MOM is appealing to the gun rights nuts and & the 2nd ammendment folks to keep those donations coming in. This is music to these nuts' ears. They are probably saluting the flag as they write that check right now.

You can e-mail Mom at his office website. I did after the 1st hearing.

by WeeBonnie Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:31 pm

Me too Cher. But a lot of GZs supporters feel exactly the same way. They LIKE that he profiled Trayvon and say he has saved his community from FUTURE crimes.
Whether or not GZ himself or he SPD is found to have racial bias, a good amount of his supporters are happy to display theirs. I see it in blogs and comment sections everywhere. I think that MOM is dog whistling to these people that yes - he is willing and able to lynch Trayvon and paint him a thug. I'm sure the donors are happy to see this.

CherokeeNative wrote:
ellejay wrote:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/48024865#48024865

The Today Show---Saturday, June 30/2012 5:40

Will Judge Set Zimmerman Free?

--omara interviewed, also clip from yesterday's hearing shown...

--omara--"mr. martin was shot b/c he had broken somebody's nose, and he had gotten him on the ground and he had smashed his head against a cement walkway at least twice---then, he got shot and he was killed b/c of his own doing".

MOM is really really getting on my last nerve by blaming this on Trayvon. Trayvon was not the aggressor in this case and if he caused any of GZ's injuries, which I question, it was because he was utilizing his own SYG rights by defending himself against a crazed gun-toting cop-wanna-be. Trayvon had no way of knowing whether GZ was a skinhead, a Mexican gang member enforcing his turf, or a pedofile. MOM can defend this case without bashing Trayvon - he is crossing the line IMO - and I hope the community and public in general make it known that this is not acceptable. It is one thing to go before the trier-of-fact and put forth this B.S. if it is necessary to properly defend the case, but he does not need to be doing it on the media. It is completely disrespectful to Trayvon's parents and offensive to me as a citizen. I just may write a letter... telling him

[right]

by CherokeeNative Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:34 pm

alabama52 wrote:CN, MOM is appealing to the gun rights nuts and & the 2nd ammendment folks to keep those donations coming in. This is music to these nuts' ears. They are probably saluting the flag as they write that check right now.

You can e-mail Mom at his office website. I did after the 1st hearing.

Thanks Alabama. I am not kidding, it really angers me that he has no more class than that. It is unnecessary. If he wants more monies, friggin say it - he's getting the free air time - come right out and ask for more donations. But don't be bashing Trayvon in the media - he isn't here to defend himself and tell the truth - something GZ seems to be unable to do.

by WeeBonnie Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:37 pm

Yep! I believe this is why they were going to his gun classes- hopefully other students have heard this.
But you know, I'd only briefly heard about SYG laws and was made aware right away that this is he heart of the problem. If you are alone with someone, you can just shoot them and claim it too easily. You WILL face legal problems for sure if you leave the other person alive, with SYG you may not even be charged.
If I was aware of this, so was GZ.

CherokeeNative wrote:WeeBonnie - you may be right. Haven't we been told that the CWP classes teach the students to shoot to kill so as to leave no one to dispute your self-defense claim?

by ellejay Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:39 pm

CherokeeNative wrote:WeeBonnie - you may be right. Haven't we been told that the CWP classes teach the students to shoot to kill so as to leave no one to dispute your self-defense claim?

--there's a lot of info on the Florida Division of Licensing site.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html
--Florida Division of Licensing---Concealed Weapons

--including this message from the commissioner:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html
Use of Deadly Force for Lawful Self-Defense

A Message from Commissioner Adam Putnam
to Concealed Weapon License Holders

To carry a concealed firearm is to take on an immense responsibility. It is very important to understand that a license to carry a concealed weapon does not give the license holder discretionary authority to use that weapon. It is my sincere hope that you will never find it necessary to use your weapon in self-defense; however, if circumstances require you to do so, you should know that the law will protect you only if your actions in using deadly force have been consistent with the law.

The background and links provided below are intended to inform you what the law says concerning the use of deadly force in lawful self-defense. I hope that you will read the law carefully and that you will use caution in carrying your concealed weapon and in using it to defend yourself.

Adam H. Putnam
Commissioner

Chapter 776, Florida Statutes

Chapter 776, Florida Statutes, is Florida law pertaining to the justifiable use of force.

Chapter 776 was amended by the Legislature in 2005. The changes that took effect on October 1, 2005, extended the provisions of what is known as the “Castle Doctrine,” declaring that a person has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force if that force is necessary to prevent death, great bodily harm or the commission of a forcible felony.

The Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is not authorized to provide specific guidance concerning the use of deadly force to concealed weapon license holders. The department is charged by statute with administering the provisions of the concealed weapon licensing program in accordance with section 790.06, Florida Statutes. However, that is the limit of the department’s authority.

by CherokeeNative Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:42 pm

WeeBonnie wrote:Me too Cher. But a lot of GZs supporters feel exactly the same way. They LIKE that he profiled Trayvon and say he has saved his community from FUTURE crimes.
Whether or not GZ himself or he SPD is found to have racial bias, a good amount of his supporters are happy to display theirs. I see it in blogs and comment sections everywhere. I think that MOM is dog whistling to these people that yes - he is willing and able to lynch Trayvon and paint him a thug. I'm sure the donors are happy to see this.

CherokeeNative wrote:

MOM is really really getting on my last nerve by blaming this on Trayvon. Trayvon was not the aggressor in this case and if he caused any of GZ's injuries, which I question, it was because he was utilizing his own SYG rights by defending himself against a crazed gun-toting cop-wanna-be. Trayvon had no way of knowing whether GZ was a skinhead, a Mexican gang member enforcing his turf, or a pedofile. MOM can defend this case without bashing Trayvon - he is crossing the line IMO - and I hope the community and public in general make it known that this is not acceptable. It is one thing to go before the trier-of-fact and put forth this B.S. if it is necessary to properly defend the case, but he does not need to be doing it on the media. It is completely disrespectful to Trayvon's parents and offensive to me as a citizen. I just may write a letter... telling him
[right]

I think I will start a list of all of the pro-GZ websites/blogs and when this is all said and done, and when GZ is sitting his butt in prison for the remainder of his friggin life, I just may go trolling to all of those sites and rub it in their friggin faces. Just to be an A-hole and get a few jabs in on behalf of Trayvon and his parents. Man, it is hard to not get emotional about this case. I just want to ask each and every one of those pro-GZ people - what if that had been your daughter or grand-daughter that GZ was following that night? Hmmmm? With Trayvon's hoodie up - there is no way he could have been absolutely certain the individual was a male - so what if that had of been your daughter?

by WeeBonnie Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:42 pm

Those cries are haunting, and they aren't coming from someone being tossed around of suffocated. The only explanation to me is that GZ realized he went too far and was weighing his legal options. He would be disgraced if he had left Trayon alive and had to explain stalking And detaining him.

by KZ Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:43 pm

Regarding the "right dominant circulation" comment from the TM autopsy report-- this has absolutely nothing to do with being right handed, or handedness at all.

It is a descriptive cardiovascular term identifying the individual's pattern of coronary arteries.

Coronary artery dominance

The artery that supplies the posterior descending artery (PDA)[1] (a.k.a. posterior interventricular artery) determines the coronary dominance.[2]

If the posterior descending artery (PDA) (a.k.a. posterior interventricular artery) is supplied by the right coronary artery (RCA), then the coronary circulation can be classified as "right-dominant".

If the posterior descending artery (PDA) is supplied by the circumflex artery (CX), a branch of the left artery, then the coronary circulation can be classified as "left-dominant".

If the posterior descending artery (PDA) is supplied by both the right coronary artery (RCA) and the circumflex artery, then the coronary circulation can be classified as "co-dominant".

Approximately 70% of the general population are right-dominant, 20% are co-dominant, and 10% are left-dominant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronary_circulation

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