George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #5

You know what BS you'll get: my kid doesn't dress like that, my kid doesn't go out at 7 PM (the middle of the night) my kids don't get suspended.
As if.

CherokeeNative wrote:

WeeBonnie wrote:Me too Cher. But a lot of GZs supporters feel exactly the same way. They LIKE that he profiled Trayvon and say he has saved his community from FUTURE crimes.
Whether or not GZ himself or he SPD is found to have racial bias, a good amount of his supporters are happy to display theirs. I see it in blogs and comment sections everywhere. I think that MOM is dog whistling to these people that yes - he is willing and able to lynch Trayvon and paint him a thug. I'm sure the donors are happy to see this.


[right]

I think I will start a list of all of the pro-GZ websites/blogs and when this is all said and done, and when GZ is sitting his butt in prison for the remainder of his friggin life, I just may go trolling to all of those sites and rub it in their friggin faces. Just to be an A-hole and get a few jabs in on behalf of Trayvon and his parents. Man, it is hard to not get emotional about this case. I just want to ask each and every one of those pro-GZ people - what if that had been your daughter or grand-daughter that GZ was following that night? Hmmmm? With Trayvon's hoodie up - there is no way he could have been absolutely certain the individual was a male - so what if that had of been your daughter?

ellejay wrote:

CherokeeNative wrote:WeeBonnie - you may be right. Haven't we been told that the CWP classes teach the students to shoot to kill so as to leave no one to dispute your self-defense claim?

--there's a lot of info on the Florida Division of Licensing site.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html
--Florida Division of Licensing---Concealed Weapons

--including this message from the commissioner:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html
Use of Deadly Force for Lawful Self-Defense

A Message from Commissioner Adam Putnam
to Concealed Weapon License Holders

To carry a concealed firearm is to take on an immense responsibility. It is very important to understand that a license to carry a concealed weapon does not give the license holder discretionary authority to use that weapon. It is my sincere hope that you will never find it necessary to use your weapon in self-defense; however, if circumstances require you to do so, you should know that the law will protect you only if your actions in using deadly force have been consistent with the law.

The background and links provided below are intended to inform you what the law says concerning the use of deadly force in lawful self-defense. I hope that you will read the law carefully and that you will use caution in carrying your concealed weapon and in using it to defend yourself.

Adam H. Putnam
Commissioner

Chapter 776, Florida Statutes

Chapter 776, Florida Statutes, is Florida law pertaining to the justifiable use of force.

Chapter 776 was amended by the Legislature in 2005. The changes that took effect on October 1, 2005, extended the provisions of what is known as the “Castle Doctrine,” declaring that a person has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force if that force is necessary to prevent death, great bodily harm or the commission of a forcible felony.

The Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is not authorized to provide specific guidance concerning the use of deadly force to concealed weapon license holders. The department is charged by statute with administering the provisions of the concealed weapon licensing program in accordance with section 790.06, Florida Statutes. However, that is the limit of the department’s authority.

So, not only is case law on Trayvon's side, but there is statutory language on his side too. Case law has held that "meet force with force" means "like force" - i.e., you can't use a gun in a fist fight.

--checking in on george--making sure he's still there! and he is...
http://webbond.seminolesheriff.org/InmateInfo.aspx?bkgnbr=201200006746

--shellie still doesn't have a lawyer...(waiting on a pro-bono to come forward?)
she better get on it---her arraignment is just a month away...
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=592012CF001792A

Okay - I've gotta get a life and get off my bum and do something. I'll be back later to continue my rant. LOL

--excellent video today from 'LLMPapa'---love the part where george pretty much reenacts pulling his gun and shooting-------w/ it upside down...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIi3YlWBw7w
Zimmerman's R/H Tale In A L/H World

Published on Jun 30, 2012 by LLMPapa

Snipped a bit to save space:

ellejay wrote:
Taaffe said Zimmerman was so normal that he came across as though he were “an engineer from Lockheed Martin.” He did not show up to homeowner association meetings Rambo-style “wearing a bandana around his head with a bowie knife sticking out of his pocket,” Taaffe said.

Of course he didn't show up looking like Rambo.
He no doubt came attempting to look like an off
duty LEO and you can bet he had his weapon on
him even at these meetings.

If found not guilty, I would hope GZ has learned
from this and will get rid of the damn weapon. He
is not someone who should have a CWP.

ellejay wrote:--excellent video today from 'LLMPapa'---love the part where george pretty much reenacts pulling his gun and shooting-------w/ it upside down...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIi3YlWBw7w
Zimmerman's R/H Tale In A L/H World

Published on Jun 30, 2012 by LLMPapa

ellejay, I'll embed the video:



Click to play

CN, will you put the Caylee Daily at the top of your list???

CherokeeNative wrote:

ellejay wrote:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/48024865#48024865

The Today Show---Saturday, June 30/2012 5:40

Will Judge Set Zimmerman Free?



--omara interviewed, also clip from yesterday's hearing shown...

--omara--"mr. martin was shot b/c he had broken somebody's nose, and he had gotten him on the ground and he had smashed his head against a cement walkway at least twice---then, he got shot and he was killed b/c of his own doing".

MOM is really really getting on my last nerve by blaming this on Trayvon. Trayvon was not the aggressor in this case and if he caused any of GZ's injuries, which I question, it was because he was utilizing his own SYG rights by defending himself against a crazed gun-toting cop-wanna-be. Trayvon had no way of knowing whether GZ was a skinhead, a Mexican gang member enforcing his turf, or a pedofile. MOM can defend this case without bashing Trayvon - he is crossing the line IMO - and I hope the community and public in general make it known that this is not acceptable. It is one thing to go before the trier-of-fact and put forth this B.S. if it is necessary to properly defend the case, but he does not need to be doing it on the media. It is completely disrespectful to Trayvon's parents and offensive to me as a citizen. I just may write a letter... telling him

Please do write him, he needs to hear from others who aren't pushing a political agenda.

ellejay wrote:--excellent video today from 'LLMPapa'---love the part where george pretty much reenacts pulling his gun and shooting-------w/ it upside down...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIi3YlWBw7w
Zimmerman's R/H Tale In A L/H World

Published on Jun 30, 2012 by LLMPapa

That was a good idea by Papa, I'm not good at visualizing things at all. But, the belt clip is on the other side of the holster, would that then change it to put the gun in the right position?

Here's a funny thing from Bill Maher:

Maher advised Romney to go with a more unorthodox pick, like none other than George Zimmerman. Why would Zimmerman be a good choice for Romney’s VP? Maher rhetorically asked, “Who better than George Zimmerman to personify your campaign theme of ‘I think the black guy’s up to no good’?”

(eta: not a political commentary by me, just posting for the Z reference.) :)

CherokeeNative wrote:

alabama52 wrote:CN, MOM is appealing to the gun rights nuts and & the 2nd ammendment folks to keep those donations coming in. This is music to these nuts' ears. They are probably saluting the flag as they write that check right now.

You can e-mail Mom at his office website. I did after the 1st hearing.

Thanks Alabama. I am not kidding, it really angers me that he has no more class than that. It is unnecessary. If he wants more monies, friggin say it - he's getting the free air time - come right out and ask for more donations. But don't be bashing Trayvon in the media - he isn't here to defend himself and tell the truth - something GZ seems to be unable to do.

O'Mara is showing his real colors at this point. By smashing Trayvon, he will get more donations. It's only the people who like what Zimmerman did that are donating. It has absolutely nothing to do with who was right and who was wrong. So O'Mara is trying to reach the ones that applaud Zimmerman for shooting Trayvon in hope of getting more money. Which is a sign that the money has probably came to a slow pace or a halt.

It goes to show what such an attorney like O'Mara will do. He's no better than a George Zimmerman. Time will tell when O'Mara will have to go to the court and ask for more money (the same way Baez did).

Also, I wouldn't doubt if Shellie has set up some sort of web site to collect money for her defense.

In the average case a defense attorney would lose points when putting the blame on the victim. O'Mara is using reverse psych because of the donations. He knows the donations poured in from a certain type of people, so he has to try and reach that audience again. So what better way of doing that but to put the blame openly on Trayvon. To keep reminding the supporters that it was Trayvons own fault that he was shot dead. That Zimmerman had every right to shoot him.

This also goes to show that he really is not looking out for his client, because it's not likely that these donors are going to be picked for jury duty on this case. So my bet is that O'Mara got a little used to money rolling in and wants it to continue. He would hate to have to ask for tax money at this point. This case can put a pretty penny in O'Mara's hands, say about a million dollars. And in reality he wont care one way or the other what happens to George, guilty or not guilty wont matter one bit to O'Mara.

However, how much does he think these supporters have? Even they wont go without to see Zimmermans lawyer get rich, they too will soon stop sending in their few dollars.

Gizmo711 wrote:In the average case a defense attorney would lose points when putting the blame on the victim. O'Mara is using reverse psych because of the donations. He knows the donations poured in from a certain type of people, so he has to try and reach that audience again. So what better way of doing that but to put the blame openly on Trayvon. To keep reminding the supporters that it was Trayvons own fault that he was shot dead. That Zimmerman had every right to shoot him.

This also goes to show that he really is not looking out for his client, because it's not likely that these donors are going to be picked for jury duty on this case. So my bet is that O'Mara got a little used to money rolling in and wants it to continue. He would hate to have to ask for tax money at this point. This case can put a pretty penny in O'Mara's hands, say about a million dollars. And in reality he wont care one way or the other what happens to George, guilty or not guilty wont matter one bit to O'Mara.

However, how much does he think these supporters have? Even they wont go without to see Zimmermans lawyer get rich, they too will soon stop sending in their few dollars.

Gizmo, I agree but will MOM use that tactic during trial? Wouldn't that really turn off the jury?

MOM has said from the outset that he's going after Trayvon.
I think it's horrible but when you think about it, they have no other case to make.
The injuries themselves were not brutal, so Trayvon must be portrayed as a very scary teen. They must make Georges paranoia and anger look rational.

alabama52 wrote:

Gizmo711 wrote:In the average case a defense attorney would lose points when putting the blame on the victim. O'Mara is using reverse psych because of the donations. He knows the donations poured in from a certain type of people, so he has to try and reach that audience again. So what better way of doing that but to put the blame openly on Trayvon. To keep reminding the supporters that it was Trayvons own fault that he was shot dead. That Zimmerman had every right to shoot him.

This also goes to show that he really is not looking out for his client, because it's not likely that these donors are going to be picked for jury duty on this case. So my bet is that O'Mara got a little used to money rolling in and wants it to continue. He would hate to have to ask for tax money at this point. This case can put a pretty penny in O'Mara's hands, say about a million dollars. And in reality he wont care one way or the other what happens to George, guilty or not guilty wont matter one bit to O'Mara.

However, how much does he think these supporters have? Even they wont go without to see Zimmermans lawyer get rich, they too will soon stop sending in their few dollars.

Gizmo, I agree but will MOM use that tactic during trial? Wouldn't that really turn off the jury?

alabama52 wrote:

Gizmo711 wrote:In the average case a defense attorney would lose points when putting the blame on the victim. O'Mara is using reverse psych because of the donations. He knows the donations poured in from a certain type of people, so he has to try and reach that audience again. So what better way of doing that but to put the blame openly on Trayvon. To keep reminding the supporters that it was Trayvons own fault that he was shot dead. That Zimmerman had every right to shoot him.

This also goes to show that he really is not looking out for his client, because it's not likely that these donors are going to be picked for jury duty on this case. So my bet is that O'Mara got a little used to money rolling in and wants it to continue. He would hate to have to ask for tax money at this point. This case can put a pretty penny in O'Mara's hands, say about a million dollars. And in reality he wont care one way or the other what happens to George, guilty or not guilty wont matter one bit to O'Mara.

However, how much does he think these supporters have? Even they wont go without to see Zimmermans lawyer get rich, they too will soon stop sending in their few dollars.

Gizmo, I agree but will MOM use that tactic during trial? Wouldn't that really turn off the jury?

I doubt that he will use that tactic with the jury, right now it's just to reach the part of the public that feels as though Zimmerman was in the right for ridding the neighborhood of a criminal. They are not seeing the case for what it is, only for who was gunned down. O'Mara is smart enough to know that those are the ones that are sending in money. But then again, he will be going for self defense, so he will most likely have to portray Trayvon as the aggressor at some point in the encounter.

Zimmerman will have to take the stand in a self defense plea, and I'm sure that the prosecution will rip him apart, he's not exactly the brightest. There is no way that Zimmerman can have his lawyer argue his self defense. Seeing as Zimmermans credibility has been shot down already, it really doesn't look good for him being the only witness in a self defense claim. JMO

I heard on the news that the bond hearing will resume on monday. I hope Zimmerman doesn't get a bond, I hope he has to sit right their in jail until the trial. However, Judge Lester will probably give him a bond but it will be very high, so Zimmerman may not be able to make it..

WeeBonnie wrote:MOM has said from the outset that he's going after Trayvon.
I think it's horrible but when you think about it, they have no other case to make.
The injuries themselves were not brutal, so Trayvon must be portrayed as a very scary teen. They must make Georges paranoia and anger look rational.

alabama52 wrote:


Gizmo, I agree but will MOM use that tactic during trial? Wouldn't that really turn off the jury?

Yah, your right, he really would have nothing else to use. However, the jury doesn't take to lightly to having the victim portrayed as the villian, so it's going to be a hard case for O'Mara. The 911 tapes are too damaging, they plainly show that Zimmerman was profiling and persuing Trayvon, then Trayvon ends up dead at the hands of the persuer. It's not going to be easy to convince a jury that in midstream the victim becomes the aggressor. Either way anyone looks at it it is going to be logical that Trayvon was only defending himself against what he considered a person out to harm him.

Somewhere it will have to come in that Trayvon was standing his ground. What was Trayvon supposed to do, just stand there and be killed for no reason, of course the kid was going to fight with all he had in him, and if Zimmermans nose got broken in the interim so be it, he deserved it for messing with Trayvon to begin with. JMO

Gizmo, the bond hearing will resume on Monday??? I wonder what's up. I think InSession reported that Judge Lester would announce his decision through an e-mail. Yeah, that's weird but that is what was said.

ellejay wrote:--excellent video today from 'LLMPapa'---love the part where george pretty much reenacts pulling his gun and shooting-------w/ it upside down...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIi3YlWBw7w
Zimmerman's R/H Tale In A L/H World

Published on Jun 30, 2012 by LLMPapa

Thanks Ellejay - you made my day. It's this type of genius thinking that is going to be GZ's demise in this case. What did BDLR say he gave? Something like 11 statements? And he just kepting talking and talking.... that video is priceless. Yep, this just made my day.

http://my.firedoglake.com/mason/tag/forensic-science/

Couldnt GZ get his version off events over and avoid the danger of cross examination by the other side.Im assumeing his Father an Wife Sister Is his Mother alive?Havent heard anymention of his real Mom...Anyway couldnt he simply re tell his story time after time to Family on visits.After a crash course crib an learn kesson from his defence team..Eventually as in the CAYLEES case we know thease videos are recorded an can be requested by either defence or prosecution an entered into evidence.This way they could get hours of GZ simply repeating final version /get out of jail free version ./7?An he never needs take the stand an I doubt the prosecution will want thoses tAPES PLAYED FOR THE jURY TO HEAR.But if they defence use this tactic an enter them then they will have no way to block them I M O..Didnt Baez despretely try to get the visit vt ruled inadmissable in court,,,,They had no recourse but to close the visits down.So if the prosecution doesnt use the visit tapes in evidence at least the ones with the scripted court version of tell the Jury what realy happened..He may say things damageing in other visits or covert tapes .He has been sitting in jail now for weeks probaly made hundredss of calls last time he was seven 8 times per day on phone.Mind you they had fraud an code talk hideing moneu biz going on..But they have proved they are not thesmartess tacks in a box.Who knows what may have been said .I imagine his wife was none to pleased to be charged with perjury an embroiled with possable jail time now.The moneys gone an the breif bubble of giddyness when the money started rolling in are gone...Even if she passes her tests ect gets qualifications as an Nurse.Wouldnt a fellony conviction barr you from position.George is in Jail the 5 bedroom 4 week house lease is gone off the early weeks following his first arrest an breif incarseration.Therealgzsite seemed like there very own magic golden egg laying blood money disspencein machine.Not only did they know about this money they pled poverty to the court an claimed indegent status to procure a low bond.Gz claimed to be broke up untill M O M said he had his first proper meeting with him 3 days after the bond hearing.I M O GZ thought revealing this info to his attorney was protected uder client council privalage rule.He was more than likely shocked an pizzed when informed he had to reveal this new info an relinquish his golden goose to turn it over to M O M To prosper from while he an his family get nowt,

Marica wrote:Snipped a bit to save space:

ellejay wrote:
Taaffe said Zimmerman was so normal that he came across as though he were “an engineer from Lockheed Martin.” He did not show up to homeowner association meetings Rambo-style “wearing a bandana around his head with a bowie knife sticking out of his pocket,” Taaffe said.

Of course he didn't show up looking like Rambo.
He no doubt came attempting to look like an off
duty LEO and you can bet he had his weapon on
him even at these meetings.

If found not guilty, I would hope GZ has learned
from this and will get rid of the damn weapon. He
is not someone who should have a CWP.

If found not guilty, he will get rich. He will turn iconic for the gun toters and make a killing on the talk show circuits. Sadly enough.

Good evening everyone. Was gone all day (went to the Adirondacks...woohoo). Did I miss anything exciting besides CN ranting?

"Magic golden egg laying blood money dispensing machine!"
I'm loving that image, Possie!

I might be a little confused but I thought that the prosecution cannot enter GZs statements into trial (not same as bond hearing) unless GZ was wLking to take the stand. And I don't think his lawyers can prep him enough to make that a smart move.
Cher? Do I have that right?

ha ha! I thought it was Porky you "Had a problem with", Lol.
Might I suggest taking it over to the Bashara thread? Oh gosh. You can't!

I'm really proud of everybody for being able to disagree in a fairly civil manner here.
Or cutting and running before it gets ugly.

Chickenbutt wrote:Good evening everyone. Was gone all day (went to the Adirondacks...woohoo). Did I miss anything exciting besides CN ranting?

Wee....that was a loving good natured comment about CN. She gets it, no worries. Now about Porky, he is another story!! Really, I love them both. No problems with anyone here. Nope, not me!

Chickenbutt wrote:Good evening everyone. Was gone all day (went to the Adirondacks...woohoo). Did I miss anything exciting besides CN ranting?

It's all good with CN. She just needed a break. I am hoping that she gets fired up again, though, because I'm going to send her over to theconservativetree. I've been over there this afternoon posting. hehehe

Alabama....it is not hard to get CN worked up....sending her over there will do the trick I guarantee you.

Gizmo711 wrote:

O'Mara is showing his real colors at this point. By smashing Trayvon, he will get more donations. It's only the people who like what Zimmerman did that are donating. It has absolutely nothing to do with who was right and who was wrong. So O'Mara is trying to reach the ones that applaud Zimmerman for shooting Trayvon in hope of getting more money. Which is a sign that the money has probably came to a slow pace or a halt.

It goes to show what such an attorney like O'Mara will do. He's no better than a George Zimmerman. Time will tell when O'Mara will have to go to the court and ask for more money (the same way Baez did).

Also, I wouldn't doubt if Shellie has set up some sort of web site to collect money for her defense.

--sister grace (AKA hide & seek w/-the-money-partner "susie") has started/is in on the new "friendsofGZ" site....

http://friendsofgz.com/
Friends of George Zimmerman

This website is operated by friends and family of George Zimmerman to provide support for George and to help raise funds for the independently managed George Zimmerman Legal Defense Fund

--she wrote her 1st blog entry on thursday --the day before the bond hearing..

Thank You For Your Support Written by Grace Zimmerman.

Firstly, I would like to thank all Zimmerman family supporters for their kind words and prayers. At different times I have looked to letters and notes of support to strengthen me.

I would like to tell those supporters a little more of who George Zimmerman was and continues be. Beyond a headline or sensational story is a brother who I love and have always been inspired by. George is a son, husband, grandson, brother, uncle, role model and friend to many. He has been a pillar or strength and hope to each of those people at different times and continues to be so. George is an essential thread of our family fabric. I could never explain the ways in which George has impacted my life. I have looked for the words but now believe they do not exist.

To those who have shared their support, I have this to say: Thank you for your courage, strength and hope as we face a crucial day tomorrow in which not only will George's foreseeable future be determined but ours as well.

--among the links on the site, one is "donate to the GZ defense fund" (takes you to omara's fund $$$$ite)-- another "how to help"-----pretty much suggests you ---donate to the GZ defense fund...

I'm going to disagree with the getting rich. His supporters have less of an attention span than George himself! As soon as the matter is settled, they will move onto the next thing to be angry about. Plus, they are stingy and disloyal. Once they don't need GZ hell be off their radar in 2-3 months flat.


[quote=Porky]

If found not guilty, he will get rich. He will turn iconic for the gun toters and make a killing on the talk show circuits. Sadly enough.[/quote]

Porky wrote:

If found not guilty, he will get rich. He will turn iconic for the gun toters and make a killing on the talk show circuits. Sadly enough.

--well, that's what everyone (or most everyone) was saying about kc anothony.

--and look at how "rich" she is.....broke, owes tons of money to the IRS and the Court...STILL "in hiding"...she was such a pariah when she got off, any reputable entity wanted ZERO to do w/ her.

--i personally don't think george will get off..

WeeBonnie wrote:

Porky wrote:

If found not guilty, he will get rich. He will turn iconic for the gun toters and make a killing on the talk show circuits. Sadly enough.

Maybe he will be the new Ted Nugent!

I keep wondering how Shellie feels about MOM & George selling her down the river. I know she is guilty of perjury and George, I guess, did not make her do anything but wouldn't you think it would make her mad. We may not have to worry about what George would do if he wins his case because Shellie might take care of that for us.

I know! I'm just teasing you. But maybe I shouldn't if you're tough enough to go outside today..... You must a roughneck.
I'm just glad we're all behaving, mostly.....

Chickenbutt wrote:Wee....that was a loving good natured comment about CN. She gets it, no worries. Now about Porky, he is another story!! Really, I love them both. No problems with anyone here. Nope, not me!

i spent the day up in the mountains....breezy, warm but not hot, lakes everywhere. Even more stores than lakes!!
Hubby did the hiking bit. I sat in the shade and listened to music on the iPad and wished I was on the lake.

We Bonnie if the tapes are entered into evidence by either side an I beleive thy will .Anything entered into evidence comtaining GZ talking both written an audio are admissable wether he takes the stand or not is irrelevant.As we saw Casey anthony refused to take the stand in her qwn defence.Yet each an every sstatement made by her either written recorded or vt was played and or read to the court .Jury also sat through nearly 6 hours of vt from the prison visiting in house camera visiting system bit like visit over skype An casey never to the stand.So imagine this defence whilst presenting there case leaves GZ scripted admission vist vts to his famliy near the end of there case of defending him .Therefore the jurours could have hours an hours of GZ explaining every thing away over an over to,to satification of family an potential juroursBaez ridiculass opening statement seemed to stick with cretain pinelass jurours so much they then discounted any ratinal evidence proveing her over whelming singlehand guilt in murdering precious CAYLEE...Imagine how much more effect such evidence near the end off a trial could give a jury an excuse for an aquitall.I hate to say this but I beleive unless the juorours are vetted an picked the possabilty exsists for a perverse verdict to be returned an not guiltys anounce,Say the makeup of the jurours was predominently white middle aged males And a verdicct along the lines of the OJ Case is returned.Wich I M O was a big middle finger by black America or at least a certain political agenda motive .Say we know he is guilty killing two white people .We are going to let him walk as we have the majority an we can screw justice let the juice leave the hoose.It would be tragic beyond words for Trayvons Parents if we somehow allowed a majority white jury sit some with strong feelings/agendas/..An Gz was set free with not guiltys an cheers ringing in there ears.Simply must not be allowed to happen .He deserves a trial free from tainted jurours off course .A fair an impartial set of jurours will see to the truths in thease tragic sad deathly important issue.......

Oops I honestly meant to write certain in previous post not what came out but kinnda fits.. Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #5
by ecossie possie Today at 12:39 am

.We Bonnie if the tapes are entered into evidence by either side an I beleive thy will .Anything entered into evidence comtaining GZ talking both written an audio are admissable wether he takes the stand or not is irrelevant.As we saw Casey anthony refused to take the stand in her qwn defence.Yet each an every sstatement made by her either written recorded or vt was played and or read to the court .Jury also sat through nearly 6 hours of vt from the prison visiting in house camera visiting system bit like visit over skype An casey never to the stand.So imagine this defence whilst presenting there case leaves GZ scripted admission vist vts to his famliy near the end of there case of defending him .Therefore the jurours could have hours an hours of GZ explaining every thing away over an over to,to satification of family an potential juroursBaez ridiculass opening statement seemed to stick with cretain pinelass jurours so much they then discounted any ratinal evidence proveing her over .

potential juroursBaez ridiculass opening statement seemed to stick with cretain pinelass jurours so much they then discounted any ratinal evidence proveing her over ..
ecossie possie


Posts: 29
Join date: 2010-03-31

also only meant cut an paste couple sentances not entire post sorry..

Chickenbutt wrote:i spent the day up in the mountains....breezy, warm but not hot, lakes everywhere. Even more stores than lakes!!
Hubby did the hiking bit. I sat in the shade and listened to music on the iPad and wished I was on the lake.

slacker :) Glad you had fun

At least I stayed awake!!

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

George Zimmerman Bond Hearing Turns Mini-Trial; Zimmerman Hijacked by Defense?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1206/29/ijvm.01.html

http://www.huliq.com/10178/mark-omara-george-zimmermans-attorney-speaks-today-show
Mark O'Mara, George Zimmerman's attorney, speaks with Today Show

--snipped--

George Zimmerman’s lawyer told NBC's "Today Show" that George Zimmerman should be released because he's not a flight risk, his financial situation is dire and because George Zimmerman isn't a threat to society.

O'Mara also said Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin because Martin had broken Zimmerman’s nose and smashed his head on the ground at least twice. Mark O’Mara told the court that Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin because of Martin’s own actions.

The Today Show asked Mark O’Mara about Zimmerman's credibility issues and how that will affect the outcome of the trial. O’Mara said that George Zimmerman ‘s silence has damaged George Zimmerman’s credibility. O'Mara said that he's looking forward to a fair trial.

O’Mara actually volunteered for the judge to question George Zimmerman as long as Zimmerman wasn’t crossed examined by prosecutors. The judge refused O’Mara’s proposition to put Zimmerman on the stand.

O’Mara said he “would imagine” that Zimmerman will testify at the regular trial, even if Zimmerman wasn't called to the stand during the bond hearing

ecossie possie wrote:We Bonnie if the tapes are entered into evidence by either side an I beleive thy will .Anything entered into evidence comtaining GZ talking both written an audio are admissable wether he takes the stand or not is irrelevant.As we saw Casey anthony refused to take the stand in her qwn defence.Yet each an every sstatement made by her either written recorded or vt was played and or read to the court .Jury also sat through nearly 6 hours of vt from the prison visiting in house camera visiting system bit like visit over skype An casey never to the stand.So imagine this defence whilst presenting there case leaves GZ scripted admission vist vts to his famliy near the end of there case of defending him .Therefore the jurours could have hours an hours of GZ explaining every thing away over an over to,to satification of family an potential juroursBaez ridiculass opening statement seemed to stick with cretain pinelass jurours so much they then discounted any ratinal evidence proveing her over whelming singlehand guilt in murdering precious CAYLEE...Imagine how much more effect such evidence near the end off a trial could give a jury an excuse for an aquitall.I hate to say this but I beleive unless the juorours are vetted an picked the possabilty exsists for a perverse verdict to be returned an not guiltys anounce,Say the makeup of the jurours was predominently white middle aged males And a verdicct along the lines of the OJ Case is returned.Wich I M O was a big middle finger by black America or at least a certain political agenda motive .Say we know he is guilty killing two white people .We are going to let him walk as we have the majority an we can screw justice let the juice leave the hoose.It would be tragic beyond words for Trayvons Parents if we somehow allowed a majority white jury sit some with strong feelings/agendas/..An Gz was set free with not guiltys an cheers ringing in there ears.Simply must not be allowed to happen .He deserves a trial free from tainted jurours off course .A fair an impartial set of jurours will see to the truths in thease tragic sad deathly important issue.......

Hi Ecossie !! Good to see you again. At the Bond hearing yesterday, BDLR during his argument to the Court specifically indicated that the ONLY way that GZ's (11) statements (video and written) could be entered into evidence at an SYG motion or Trial would be if the prosecution introduced them. BDLR indicated that they were not about to do that and that GZ would have to take the witness stand in order to explain hinself at a SYG motion or to claim self-defense at trial, which would open him up to cross-examination. Once that occurred, I believe the prosecution would then, and only then, introduce the (11) statements to show the Jury (or court) the many discrepancies in GZ's stories of what occurred that night. I have not researched this and I am only going on what I heard BDLR state to the Court yesterday. I believe that the videos and taped recordings that were introduced in CA case was because the prosecution initially introduced them as evidence, and then of course, the defense can then refer and use them as well. I will spend some time in the morning researching this and see what I can find out, although it does make sense. Otherwise, a Defendant could avoid testifying at trial and avoid cross-examination by relying solely on his statements made to law enforcement. While it is the Defendant's constitutional right to not testify, if he plans on bringing a SYG motion or is claiming self-defense at trial, there really isn't any other way for him to prove his defense since there are no other witnesses to testify as to how the killing occurred. I know that neither the prosecution nor the defense can avoid calling a regular witness at trial by relying solely upon a declaration, deposition, or sworn statement of that witness where the witness is otherwise available to appear and testify personally. It is referred to as the "best evidence rule." Of course, during live testimony, either side can rely upon any declarations, sworn statements, or deposition transcripts that would impeach the live testimony of a witness at trial. Aside from impeachment purposes, the only time you will see a deposition transcript, sworn statement or declaration be used in lieu of live testimony is when that witness is dead, too ill to appear, etc., and both sides have agreed or the Judge has ordered that it be allowed. The best evidence rule may be the premises upon which BDLR was making his argument...that is what I want to research. In any event, O'Mara did not object to that argument nor did he offer a counter-argument to that contention.

ecossie possie wrote:Couldnt GZ get his version off events over and avoid the danger of cross examination by the other side.Im assumeing his Father an Wife Sister Is his Mother alive?Havent heard anymention of his real Mom...Anyway couldnt he simply re tell his story time after time to Family on visits.After a crash course crib an learn kesson from his defence team..Eventually as in the CAYLEES case we know thease videos are recorded an can be requested by either defence or prosecution an entered into evidence.This way they could get hours of GZ simply repeating final version /get out of jail free version ./7?An he never needs take the stand an I doubt the prosecution will want thoses tAPES PLAYED FOR THE jURY TO HEAR.But if they defence use this tactic an enter them then they will have no way to block them I M O..Didnt Baez despretely try to get the visit vt ruled inadmissable in court,,,,They had no recourse but to close the visits down.So if the prosecution doesnt use the visit tapes in evidence at least the ones with the scripted court version of tell the Jury what realy happened..He may say things damageing in other visits or covert tapes .He has been sitting in jail now for weeks probaly made hundredss of calls last time he was seven 8 times per day on phone.Mind you they had fraud an code talk hideing moneu biz going on..But they have proved they are not thesmartess tacks in a box.Who knows what may have been said .I imagine his wife was none to pleased to be charged with perjury an embroiled with possable jail time now.The moneys gone an the breif bubble of giddyness when the money started rolling in are gone...Even if she passes her tests ect gets qualifications as an Nurse.Wouldnt a fellony conviction barr you from position.George is in Jail the 5 bedroom 4 week house lease is gone off the early weeks following his first arrest an breif incarseration.Therealgzsite seemed like there very own magic golden egg laying blood money disspencein machine.Not only did they know about this money they pled poverty to the court an claimed indegent status to procure a low bond.Gz claimed to be broke up untill M O M said he had his first proper meeting with him 3 days after the bond hearing.I M O GZ thought revealing this info to his attorney was protected uder client council privalage rule.He was more than likely shocked an pizzed when informed he had to reveal this new info an relinquish his golden goose to turn it over to M O M To prosper from while he an his family get nowt,

No Ecossie - the defense cannot do this. First, it goes to the "best evidence rule" which means that the Defendant cannot video tape himself (whether he is talking to somebody in the room or just talking to the video camera) and then try to admit it into evidence. This would prevent the prosecution from having their right to cross-examine the Defendant. That is similar to what O'Mara was attempting to do yesterday at the Bond hearing by asking the Court to allow GZ to make a statement without being subject to cross-examination, or to let the Judge ask questions only...that simply isn't allowed in pre-trial and trial procedures. Nor can they have GZ relay his story to his family members and then have them testify as to what he told them - that is hearsay and inadmissible.

Since GZ is the only living person who knows what happened that night - he is the only one that can get up on that witness stand and tell what he knows if he wants to bring an SYG motion or claim self-defense at trial. I mean, technically, he could refuse to do that based upon his constitutional right, but he would not be able to prove his affirmative defense if he took that course of action.

Chickenbutt wrote:i spent the day up in the mountains....breezy, warm but not hot, lakes everywhere. Even more stores than lakes!!
Hubby did the hiking bit. I sat in the shade and listened to music on the iPad and wished I was on the lake.

Missed you ChickieButt - I had a question for you up thread. Glad to hear you had a good time in the Ozarks...

ellejay wrote:http://www.huliq.com/10178/mark-omara-george-zimmermans-attorney-speaks-today-show
Mark O'Mara, George Zimmerman's attorney, speaks with Today Show

--snipped--

George Zimmerman’s lawyer told NBC's "Today Show" that George Zimmerman should be released because he's not a flight risk, his financial situation is dire and because George Zimmerman isn't a threat to society.

O'Mara also said Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin because Martin had broken Zimmerman’s nose and smashed his head on the ground at least twice. Mark O’Mara told the court that Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin because of Martin’s own actions.

The Today Show asked Mark O’Mara about Zimmerman's credibility issues and how that will affect the outcome of the trial. O’Mara said that George Zimmerman ‘s silence has damaged George Zimmerman’s credibility. O'Mara said that he's looking forward to a fair trial.

O’Mara actually volunteered for the judge to question George Zimmerman as long as Zimmerman wasn’t crossed examined by prosecutors. The judge refused O’Mara’s proposition to put Zimmerman on the stand.

O’Mara said he “would imagine” that Zimmerman will testify at the regular trial, even if Zimmerman wasn't called to the stand during the bond hearing

The judge was never going to allow Zimmerman to testify on his own behalf without being cross examined by the prosecution, it was not going to happen. I don't understand why O'Mara made that proposition.

What O'Mara was trying to do by Zimmerman taking the stand to explain to the judge why he deceived the court without being cross examined is called an allocution, something that has never been done during a bond hearing. The idea was totally outlandish.

Allocution legal definition

1.The procedure during sentencing when a judge gives a convicted defendant the opportunity to make a personal statement on his own behalf to mitigate the punishment that is about to be imposed. The defendant does not have to be sworn before he makes his address, his comments are not subject to cross-examination, and the opportunity may include the right to offer evidence (such as an explanation for his conduct or a reason why severe sentence should not be imposed) beyond a request for mercy or an apology for his conduct.

http://law.yourdictionary.com/allocution

Allocution

in criminal law and procedure

The direct address between the judge and the convicted defendant prior to sentencing. During the address, the judge speaks directly to the defendant and asks if the defendant has anything to add prior to hearing the sentence. The defendant then answers the judge and may say anything in an effort to lessen the severity of the sentence, such as an apology, an offering of remorse, or an explanation of the motivations that drove the defendant's criminal actions.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/allocution

Also:

Legal Allocution: The Process of Admitting Guilt

If you have decided to plead guilty to a crime in exchange for a lesser sentence, you may be required by the prosecutor to allocute to your crimes. In legal terms, allocution is the process of admitting guilt in open court as a formal statement. You must describe the nature of your offenses in detail in order to receive the other side of your plea bargain, which may be a lesser sentence as offered by the District Attorney's office.

http://voices.yahoo.com/legal-allocution-process-admitting-guilt-275721.html?cat=17

Here are three links I think you will find interesting:

http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/18513

http://strata-sphere.com/blog/

http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/18492

Exactly Allessandra - usually that only happens after the defendant has been convicted. O'Mara thought he was being "novel." I don't think the Judge was impressed...I wasn't and neither was BDLR. LOL

I want one of the pro-GZ commenters (donors), someone, anyone, to explain to me how Trayvon managed to punch GZ in the face or nose multiple times, bash his head on concrete edge until it felt like it was going to explode, and yet, Trayvon's hands were immaculate with the exception of a 1/8" abrasion to a finger on his left hand. Trayvon is right handed by the way. There is no blood, no bruises, scratches or other damage to his hands, or the right hand specifically. Nor is the any mucus, saliva, or other DNA on Trayvon's hands from putting his hands over GZ's mouth and nose…even though that same nose was broken and supposedly bleeding. The photos show GZ's bleeding head, yet Trayvon had no blood or DNA on him. How does someone beat you in the face at least 12 times and hold your head and bash it into concrete at least 35 times, and you have no damage to your face and no concussion? How does your assailant not have any of your blood or DNA on them?

From looking at the forensic evidence, there is no evidence that a fist-fight or anything close to the beating such as described by GZ ever occurred. Does anyone have a logical reason on how that could occur? It leads me to believe that the entire scenario is fabricated. There is no evidence to substantiate that GZ's injuries were caused by Trayvon. It is without doubt that Zimmerman had injuries to the back of his head and his face. The questions are still to be answered as to how he actually received the injuries. The condition of Trayvon's hands is not consistent with applying even one punch to the nose that would cause the injury. The lack of any DNA from skin cells or blood from contact with GZ's face is very powerful evidence.

GZ claims his face was bloody and he had blood in his eyes. I still hold to the theory that Zimmerman incurred injuries to the back of head in the tussle on the ground or the sidewalk and received the injuries to his face and nose when he held the gun with one hand too close to his face and pulled the trigger. I think the undisputed blood evidence, the lack of defensive wounds on Zimmerman, the lack of offense wounds to Trayvon, the timing of what was heard on the 911 tapes and the autopsy of the direct shot into the body will be the evidence that proves Zimmerman's account of what occurred that evening is contrived.

GZ claims in his reenactment that after he shot Trayvon, he jumped on top of Trayvon and moved Trayvon's arms apart from his sides because he believed he had something in his hands. These are the same hands that GZ claims Trayvon was beating him with, the same hands that was trying to smother him by covering his mouth and nose, and pounding his head into the ground and was reaching for his gun. How did Trayvon managed to do all of that if he had something in his hands? And if he spread his hands out, how did his hands end up under his body when the first responder arrived? And how does someone bashed someone's shaved, rain slick bald head into the concrete without grabbing his ears or reaching under his head with his hands and fingers? How could there be something in Trayvon's hands, and how could there be no DNA at all on TM's hands or arms? This is just way beyond the bounds of credibility.

Another thing, how could Trayvon see GZ's gun in his waist holster while he was sitting on top of GZ, choking and smothering him? And what in the hell was GZ doing the whole time that Trayvon was punching, bashing, and smothering? Was he being a potted plant? Why wasn't he trying to defend himself? In fact, it is obvious that GZ made no attempt to defend himself other than to immediately start reaching for his gun - but GZ does not claim that - he claims he forgot he had the gun until Trayvon noticed it with his x-ray eyes.

There are so many discrepancies between the evidence and GZ's multiple stories. But most importantly, if Trayvon attacked GZ at the T, how in the heck does Trayvon's body end up some 60' south of the T? Are we to believe that Trayvon punched GZ so hard as to catapult GZ 60' whereupon Trayvon pounced upon him? Because that is how GZ describes it. He states that Trayvon punched him, he fell, and Trayvon got on top of him and began punching him in the face.

In the video reenactment, you see GZ hesitate when retelling what happened and he looks farther down the walk/grass area - at this point he appears to realize at that point that the actual shooting wasn't near the T and he pretends to stumble about 10'. This realization throws off his momentum in telling his story and he becomes a little flustered. But he keeps on with his story anyway hoping no one has noticed apparently. Yet, he never explains why Trayvon's body is still some 50' further down where the shooting occurred. Oh, by the way - where are the bushes that Trayvon jumped out of? And, when the hell did walking in the rain become a suspicious activity?

GZ thought he was a hero on February 26th. He was big man on campus who had finally managed to make sure that one more "asshole didn't get away." So proud of himself was he that he waived his right to an attorney when being questioned by LE - heck, he was practically one of them, what did he need and attorney for? He gladly gave his written statement telling how he had no choice but to shoot the "suspect." And having studied the SYG statute inside and out and misinterpreted it...which is why he uttered those words, "I was in fear of my life" - which got the self-defense angle started.

So here we are, numerous GZ statements later, a reenactment video starring none other than GZ himself, comparison of the 911 call, ME report, and autopsy, the investigators have been able to determine that nothing about GZ's story jives…. Trayvon's body lay in the direction towards home and all of the physical evidence points to the fact that Trayvon was trying to get away from GZ, but GZ pursued him, angry and filled with rage that this punk teen was going to get away - and he point-blank killed Trayvon because he never believed he would be arrested once he invoked the term "I was in fear for my life."

We may never know exactly what type of exchange really occurred. As I have always maintained, I believe GZ had his gun in hand, and went about "clearing the scene" looking for his "perp", determined that his "suspect" was not going to get away this time.

This is only a small description of the many discrepancies in GZ's stories and there is nothing close to selling the idea that it was ever in self-defense except on behalf of Trayvon.