George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Freckles wrote:

angela_nw wrote:

Has someone corrected this yet? It is misquoted: the resident says that after the incident he found out that Zimmerman had gone around the neighborhood introducing himself etc. NOT that this took place after the incident. Zimmerman was gone by then.

I do not know what has happened or how to fix it. Every time I try that link it is responsive! I have restarted the computer, cleaned out a while bunch, etc. and it will open other links but not let me back into this link!

Any help is appreciated! I don't know what to do.

ellejay wrote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/george-zimmerman-goes-judge-shopping/2012/07/15/gJQAvl2bmW_blog.html
George Zimmerman goes judge shopping

George Zimmerman wants Judge Kenneth Lester to get off his case. Literally. Mark O’Mara, the attorney for the killer of Trayvon Martin, filed a motion Friday to disqualify Lester from presiding over the second-degree murder case. After reading the jurist’s July 5 order upping Zimmerman’s bond and increasing the restrictions on his movements, I understand why O’Mara is making this move. But he is most likely stuck with him.
~~~~

Yet, Lester’s July 5 order was so stinging, I immediately wondered if Zimmerman’s chances in a SYG hearing were doomed. Even Kendall Coffey, a former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Florida, told me that he thought “the credibility gap Zimmerman has created with this judge is a concern” with such a proceeding. But he added this upon hearing about O’Mara’s motion to disqualify Lester. “That’s not going anywhere,” Coffey told me. “Judges are allowed to say someone’s untruthful. That’s their job. To say this manifests bias or prejudice is routinely rejected.”

--more@link---

This video contains the full audio of Anonymous Witness #9's statement.

You can hear the anxiety in her voice. She called SPD on Feb. 28th, only 2 days after George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin, and she has an experience of George Zimmerman that so upset her, she was impelled to contact police. Witness#9 tells police that George Zimmerman "..doesn't like black people", and that he and his whole family are "mean", and "..open about it."

Zimmerman's attorney is trying to suppress release of - what he says - is another statement from this witness, because it will cause "...widespread hostile publicity..."

Now, what else could she say that is worse than this?

We can only imagine...

CherokeeNative wrote:

I agree. As I posted up thread, I believe Judge Lester would be correct to deny the motion as being legally insufficient and I am glad to see that others agree. If he recuses himself, I believe he is doing so because he wants off the case and this is his chance to kick the bucket to another Judge. The Judge has a maximum of 30 days to rule, but I suspect that he will rule within the next couple days, if not tomorrow. I sure hope the Judge wants to stay on this case as I like his no B.S. attitude and he clearly has GZ's number.

MollyK wrote:I suggest that everyone who read Prof. Leatherman's post on the forensic evidence go back now and read some of the recent comments by Patricia and Elizabeth, who are describing a scenario that is consistent with the forensic evidence. I think that they are really on to something. Their comments are near the bottom.

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/was-trayvon-martin-attempting-to-get-away-when-george-zimmerman-killed-him/

If this heartbreaking scenario can be proven by the prosecution, then I don't see how any jury could acquit GZ. I am starting to feel hopeful that he may be convicted.

ellejay wrote:--interesting take on witness #9 ..( pre release of W9's 2nd stmt monday.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv4HTrJ4lb8&feature=player_embedded
--June 23/2012

This video contains the full audio of Anonymous Witness #9's statement.

You can hear the anxiety in her voice. She called SPD on Feb. 28th, only 2 days after George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin, and she has an experience of George Zimmerman that so upset her, she was impelled to contact police. Witness#9 tells police that George Zimmerman "..doesn't like black people", and that he and his whole family are "mean", and "..open about it."

Zimmerman's attorney is trying to suppress release of - what he says - is another statement from this witness, because it will cause "...widespread hostile publicity..."

Now, what else could she say that is worse than this?

We can only imagine...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbuxYL7l7jM&feature=relmfu
--July 13/2012

--follow-up to above clip re: W9.

ellejay wrote:--interesting take on witness #9 ..( pre release of W9's 2nd stmt monday.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv4HTrJ4lb8&feature=player_embedded
--June 23/2012

This video contains the full audio of Anonymous Witness #9's statement.

You can hear the anxiety in her voice. She called SPD on Feb. 28th, only 2 days after George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin, and she has an experience of George Zimmerman that so upset her, she was impelled to contact police. Witness#9 tells police that George Zimmerman "..doesn't like black people", and that he and his whole family are "mean", and "..open about it."

Zimmerman's attorney is trying to suppress release of - what he says - is another statement from this witness, because it will cause "...widespread hostile publicity..."

Now, what else could she say that is worse than this?

We can only imagine...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbuxYL7l7jM&feature=relmfu
--July 13/2012

--follow-up to above clip re: W9.

ellejay wrote:

CherokeeNative wrote:

I agree. As I posted up thread, I believe Judge Lester would be correct to deny the motion as being legally insufficient and I am glad to see that others agree. If he recuses himself, I believe he is doing so because he wants off the case and this is his chance to kick the bucket to another Judge. The Judge has a maximum of 30 days to rule, but I suspect that he will rule within the next couple days, if not tomorrow. I sure hope the Judge wants to stay on this case as I like his no B.S. attitude and he clearly has GZ's number.

--i see a "Motion---DENIED" coming .

--i also think that it won't take him much time at all to get his DENIED out there...like tomorrow.

--but hey, at least omara&co tried (on a friday no less---and got the weekend in for the $$$$$upporters to like them again, in the form of donation$/gift$.)

CherokeeNative wrote:

So what do you think Ellejay? I agree that it is hard to believe it is his exgirlfriend that filed the injunction because she says in her statement that she hasn't ever seen GZ act racist...plus, why would they release one of her statements and then not the others? And what could be so bad that it would even offend the donors? Any ideas?

MollyK wrote:I suggest that everyone who read Prof. Leatherman's post on the forensic evidence go back now and read some of the recent comments by Patricia and Elizabeth, who are describing a scenario that is consistent with the forensic evidence. I think that they are really on to something. Their comments are near the bottom.

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/was-trayvon-martin-attempting-to-get-away-when-george-zimmerman-killed-him/

If this heartbreaking scenario can be proven by the prosecution, then I don't see how any jury could acquit GZ. I am starting to feel hopeful that he may be convicted.

serenaz1 wrote:

Yet George wants us to believe that Trayvon either saw the gun when George was reaching for his phone or while George was LAYING ON IT on the ground.

ellejay wrote:

CherokeeNative wrote:

So what do you think Ellejay? I agree that it is hard to believe it is his exgirlfriend that filed the injunction because she says in her statement that she hasn't ever seen GZ act racist...plus, why would they release one of her statements and then not the others? And what could be so bad that it would even offend the donors? Any ideas?

--i don't think it's the X-fiancee (veronicaZ) due to her stmt in doc dump 2---( where she says he's not racist etc..)
however ( hard as it is to imagine------georgie (as VG called him in her injunction against him) MAY have actually had another girlfriend too! (pre---bride-of-cutie--shellie.)

--W9 could be this "other woman", she says she knows the whole family well-------mark has told us that george doesn't have any close friends ( thanks for that shocker mark..) an X-GF could be the one to have some inside scoop on george/the Z's.

--what would offend the donor$$$$$? -----whatever it could be.....they'll spin it to their liking.

--what would "cause wide spread hostility" towards george? ( i expect that's mainly omara exagerrating ) but i am interested in what bernieDLR means when he says it was "an act committed by zimmerman".....

--we shall see monday Cher..

ellejay wrote:
--we shall see monday Cher..

ellejay wrote:

serenaz1 wrote:

Yet George wants us to believe that Trayvon either saw the gun when George was reaching for his phone or while George was LAYING ON IT on the ground.

--no--(straying off of your 'where did he holster his gun?' topic a bit..) but...

--george never said that trayvon saw his gun when george was reaching for his phone.

--the phone bit-----george is "walking back to his truck" ---trayvon either:
-- A). appears out of nowhere at the "T" or B) jumps out at george from the bushes (that don't exist, at the "T"..)

--at this point trayvon says "you got a problem homie?" ( or a variation thereof.)

--george says "no, i don't have a problem". (or a variation thereof.)

--at THIS point------(says) george,he reaches for his cell phone, "to call 911 this time" ( rather than the non emergency #).

--wow. really? he DIDN'T call "real 911" when a 'real suspicious guy' who was 'on drugs or sumpin' was peering into houses, circling his vehicle/hand in his waistband ETC-------BUT, the guy asks if "he has a problem?" and THAT kicks george into ( wanting to reach for his cell phone and call)--- 911!!!

--but, alas, george has forgotten that he put his cell phone in his other pocket----is jumped by trayvon ( falls to the ground, or stumbles ( depending on when he's telling the tale) .....)

--trayvon didn't spy his firearm until the midst of the beatdown---good thing (!!) that while "blood was in his eyes", he was losing consciousness and it was dark out that george SAW trayvon spy it, that-----he "got to it 1st, and shot him....one time."

ellejay wrote:[
--george never said that trayvon saw his gun when george was reaching for his phone.

--the phone bit-----george is "walking back to his truck" ---trayvon either:
-- A). appears out of nowhere at the "T" or B) jumps out at george from the bushes (that don't exist, at the "T"..)

--at this point trayvon says "you got a problem homie?" ( or a variation thereof.)

--george says "no, i don't have a problem". (or a variation thereof.)

--at THIS point------(says) george,he reaches for his cell phone, "to call 911 this time" ( rather than the non emergency #).

KZ wrote:Two threads for tomorrow's doc dump:

One for discussion of the 150 phone calls
One for discussion of Witness #9's statements.

CherokeeNative wrote:OMG - hubby is watching a "gun pawn shop" show right now and they were showing one of the owners shooting a hand gun and guess what? The shell casing hits this guy in the face twice causing him to get knicks just like the ones that GZ had on his face.....hmmmmmm Sure wish I knew more about guns and all.

CherokeeNative wrote:


AND, "aimed" to avoid hitting his own hand...in the dark... LOL

serenaz1 wrote:

Oops, ok, thanks elle, I get his stories so confused!

KZ wrote:Two threads for tomorrow's doc dump:

One for discussion of the 150 phone calls
One for discussion of Witness #9's statements.

CherokeeNative wrote:OMG - hubby is watching a "gun pawn shop" show right now and they were showing one of the owners shooting a hand gun and guess what? The shell casing hits this guy in the face twice causing him to get knicks just like the ones that GZ had on his face.....hmmmmmm Sure wish I knew more about guns and all.

CherokeeNative wrote:
clipped---

AND, "aimed" to avoid hitting his own hand...in the dark... LOL

Chickenbutt wrote:

Puzzler wrote:

Well, 2 say arms were out; LE says arms were underneath...guess the only thing that will answer that question is something that's not and will not be released to the public - photos of the body at the scene before it's moved...hopefully those kinds of pictures were taken.

And if Zim did anything with the arms - like put them underneath the body - then why would he disclose he had moved the arms out?

Do you think pics were taken before LE rolled him over and started CPR?

ellejay wrote:

KZ wrote:Two threads for tomorrow's doc dump:

One for discussion of the 150 phone calls
One for discussion of Witness #9's statements.

--excellent KZ..thanks!

--i'm not anxious to hear anymore between the accused perjurer and cutie----but i do want to get a feel for his chit chat w/ others.

CherokeeNative wrote:

ellejay wrote:

--this article (athough he references the kc trial---and THOSE idiot l-a-z-y jurors..) also pertains to this case...
--jury selection is going to be huge in trayvon's case.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201107/the-not-so-obvious-lessons-the-casey-anthony-trial
The Not So Obvious Lessons From The Casey Anthony Trial

--snipped--

Jury Selection

In most criminal cases in America there is no need for jury consultants. However, there is a reason why they exist and it is primarily to assist the defense pick the jury that will best help the defense, not jurisprudence. I will repeat: that will best help the defense, not jurisprudence. What this means is that jury consultants (mostly hired by the defense) are there to "game" the system in one direction.
~~~
If you are in a job where you are used to doing high-level cognitive tasks, where decisions require intellectual rigor, they don't want you either. They don't want people who are willing to work hard to connect the dots. Also if you are an independent thinker, no need to worry - people who prefer consensus and harmony will more likely be selected. Obviously no defense attorney or jury consultant is going to get exactly what they want, but they will try. And of course, it only takes one juror to derail a conviction.

It is said that in the Casey Anthony case we should not blame the jurors. I agree - we shouldn't. That is like buying lemmings as pets and then being surprised when they act lemming like. Those jurors were preferred by the defense team for a reason and they performed as expected.

--more@link--

And Ellejay - this is where I believe the legal system has figured out how to beat Lady Justice. Our legal system needs to be revamped. Justice cannot be accomplished when the defense (or the prosecution) is using techniques meant to stack the jury with people who are incapable of an intelligent thought process. I don't know what the answer is, but this is where I go back to thinking professional jurors may be the answer. Just as we worry about a "donor" making it on the jury, or even a pro-trayvon, we are no longer looking at true justice being served but instead whose jury consultant is a better read of potential jurors or whether the prospective juror is capable of bluffing his/her way onto the panel. One day, I imagine we will have a computer that is high-tech enough to act as the jury of 12 where all of the evidence is input and a verdict decided - but until then, our legislature needs to establish new ways and enact new laws and rules to put a stop to jury stacking. It's just wrong. The thing is, only the People can make legislature make the changes - we, the people... so if everyone doesn't start raising holy hell at this type of stuff, the legal system will continue to be a joke that it has become IMHO.

Puzzler wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfVTM8sqz4k

I just listened to BDLR/DeeDee's interview for the first time.

DeeDee says that TM tells her he is a his dad's house.

So...how did TM get all the way back up to where GZ was?

Freckles wrote:

CherokeeNative wrote:
clipped---

AND, "aimed" to avoid hitting his own hand...in the dark... LOL

So where WAS his other hand he had to worry about shooting it?
And how much time did GZ supposedly take to pull out his gun, tolerate Trayvon taunting him, tolerate Trayvon pounding his head in, fighting Trayvon's hands over his nose and mouth, push Trayvon's hand away from his gun, aim the gun, worry about shooting his hand, steady the gun, and fire? Accurately into the dark? Supposedly at a distance?

Nah. For some strange reason, I just am not buying this story. Maybe, he can offer an updated version? (Like the one where he was being mugged?)

Puzzler wrote:

Chickenbutt wrote:

Do you think pics were taken before LE rolled him over and started CPR?

Excellent point!

ellejay wrote:--as for the accused perjurer, still no sign of an attorney on her court file.

--she'd better get on that , july 31st arraignment is just a couple of weeks away.

--maybe shellie's repping herself???? or george will do it!?!?---after all he's (kinda/sorta) got some knowledge of the criminal justice system .....(ha!)