Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11 #2

vegret wrote:In no way am I saying Maxie's older sibling/siblings intended for Maxie to die. However, I am saying perhaps they were all together, and fooling around, things escalated and the end result...well we know Maxie is dead.

It's so sad. I know Dina and her camp believe Rebecca killed Max...but what if this case is reopened and it is shown Maxie's sibling/siblings were responsible? I wonder how Dina would feel then?

If it all went down like that, it would certainly explain the weirdness surrounding these two cases. Evidence not collected, evidence collected but not tested...it is very strange, in that initially, Maxie's was thought to be an accident (I still believe it was), Rebecca's was thought to be homicide (I still think it was). Now Dina's "experts" (haha what expert cites Wiki and LHK as sources???) contend not only was Maxie murdered, but Rebecca was the murderer. Ha! In Rebecca's case, so much evidence was not collected, even the ME's report seemed scripted. Bizarre. It's all bizarre.

Jonah Shacknai would undoubtedly want to protect his older children if they were involved. IMO of course.

All my speculation.

Inparadise wrote:Dina is on Dr. Drew again tonight.......

Freckles wrote:

vegret wrote:In no way am I saying Maxie's older sibling/siblings intended for Maxie to die. However, I am saying perhaps they were all together, and fooling around, things escalated and the end result...well we know Maxie is dead.

It's so sad. I know Dina and her camp believe Rebecca killed Max...but what if this case is reopened and it is shown Maxie's sibling/siblings were responsible? I wonder how Dina would feel then?

If it all went down like that, it would certainly explain the weirdness surrounding these two cases. Evidence not collected, evidence collected but not tested...it is very strange, in that initially, Maxie's was thought to be an accident (I still believe it was), Rebecca's was thought to be homicide (I still think it was). Now Dina's "experts" (haha what expert cites Wiki and LHK as sources???) contend not only was Maxie murdered, but Rebecca was the murderer. Ha! In Rebecca's case, so much evidence was not collected, even the ME's report seemed scripted. Bizarre. It's all bizarre.

Jonah Shacknai would undoubtedly want to protect his older children if they were involved. IMO of course.

All my speculation.

BBM Good comments. IMO, the answer is written on the wall---eh, the door!

Tamta wrote:

Inparadise wrote:Dina is on Dr. Drew again tonight.......

great.

i hope her existing and future legal experts will be watching in the event
more 'facts' will be available for their investigation.

how do you reference talk shows in a 'scientific' paper?

chicago manual anyone?

vegret wrote:

Tamta wrote:

great.

i hope her existing and future legal experts will be watching in the event
more 'facts' will be available for their investigation.

how do you reference talk shows in a 'scientific' paper?

chicago manual anyone?

Actually, I think if Nina were on JVM, it would be very entertaining. Jane would harpoon her!

LOL! Thank goooodness Nina isn't making the rounds

Inparadise wrote:Dina is on Dr. Drew again tonight.......

Inparadise wrote:I wonder if her attorney will be riding shot-gun with her again..........I get the feeling that she is afraid to let Dina off her leash, if you know what I mean.

carlakay wrote:I just got to say I, in no way, think anyone..including his older siblings intentionly meant to cause Max to die. Planking is not something a 6 year old would just do of his own accord but it is entirely possible he could of been attempting to do something he had witnessed an older sibling do.Throw in a rambunctious pup with no telling what kind of planking set up and a disaster could of happened.Any strange marks on his body not consistant with his fall could of happened that morning prior to it,as in an older sibling playing more roughly with him than they should have or a fight which almost all siblings partake in at some point or another.

Freckles wrote:By definition, homicide simply means the death of a human. There are many different degrees of homicide and some are excusable, such as an accidental death or even in the heat of passion (where you may not have intended for the victim to die.)

Here are some links:

http://www.okcca.net/online/oujis/oujisrvr.jsp?o=510

Look at item 4:
http://law.justia.com/cases/oklahoma/court-of-appeals-criminal/1951/57305.html

Puzzler wrote:Dina keeps saying on TV that her reports indicates homocide - death at the hands of another.

Marica wrote:Vegret... I've always thought Max went over the railing
with some help...
If it wasn't some sinister guy who had hidden away in
the hall closet then it was probably a half sister who is
known to nasty to some people.
I can jealousy of Max by the older sibs as Max probably
spent a great deal more time with Daddy than they did.
I can see one or both being mean to the little guy, but
more likely the sister than the brother.

Sending everyone away ASAP, IMO... had to be so that
they weren't readily available to answer questions.
No doubt in my mind JS KNEW withing a few
hours of the "accident" what happened, what to expect,
who needed to be protected.
Too bad he didn't protect Rebecca.

GlaringError wrote:

Marica wrote:Vegret... I've always thought Max went over the railing
with some help...
If it wasn't some sinister guy who had hidden away in
the hall closet then it was probably a half sister who is
known to nasty to some people.
I can jealousy of Max by the older sibs as Max probably
spent a great deal more time with Daddy than they did.
I can see one or both being mean to the little guy, but
more likely the sister than the brother.

Sending everyone away ASAP, IMO... had to be so that
they weren't readily available to answer questions.
No doubt in my mind JS KNEW withing a few
hours of the "accident" what happened, what to expect,
who needed to be protected.
Too bad he didn't protect Rebecca.

Hi Marica ~~~

My take on this theory is that it doesn't make sense. Kids have accidents everyday.
Nobody would take Gabby or Ethan or Xena to jail over an accident amongst playing children.

To take an accident and further compound the bad situation by murdering someone else in the household.... doesn't make sense.

To cover for ones self... yes, I think that would be common.

Also, just in general (not in response to Marica's comment), I think that it is more plausible for one person in one week to turn to murder as a means of taking care of a problem, two times... rather than.....

For two people to become murderers in one week... mmmmm probably not.

vegret wrote:

GlaringError wrote:

Hi Marica ~~~

My take on this theory is that it doesn't make sense. Kids have accidents everyday.
Nobody would take Gabby or Ethan or Xena to jail over an accident amongst playing children.

To take an accident and further compound the bad situation by murdering someone else in the household.... doesn't make sense.

To cover for ones self... yes, I think that would be common.

Also, just in general (not in response to Marica's comment), I think that it is more plausible for one person in one week to turn to murder as a means of taking care of a problem, two times... rather than.....

For two people to become murderers in one week... mmmmm probably not.

BBM

Actually in some states, there is a statute. Regarding cases such as Max's, where older children (13, 14, 15 years old... are found to be the cause of a younger child's death) will be held accountable for their actions. Not sure if California is one of them. The premise is the older children ought to know better and in no way, shape or form do anything to a younger child that may endanger child's life. It's akin to personal responsibilty and personal accountability. "Age of Reason". So yeah, kids that age have been convicted and have done some kind of 'time'.


IMO, no adult had anything to do with Max's demise.

But yeah, I can imagine a parent/parents covering for older children.

However, I do believe an adult/adults did have something to do with Rebecca's demise.

GlaringError wrote:

vegret wrote:

BBM

Actually in some states, there is a statute. Regarding cases such as Max's, where older children (13, 14, 15 years old... are found to be the cause of a younger child's death) will be held accountable for their actions. Not sure if California is one of them. The premise is the older children ought to know better and in no way, shape or form do anything to a younger child that may endanger child's life. It's akin to personal responsibilty and personal accountability. "Age of Reason". So yeah, kids that age have been convicted and have done some kind of 'time'.


IMO, no adult had anything to do with Max's demise.

But yeah, I can imagine a parent/parents covering for older children.

However, I do believe an adult/adults did have something to do with Rebecca's demise.

Obviously the law doesn't apply to the Shacknai's... no Shacknai minor would have gone to jail for an accident.... JMO

Homicide: http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=881

I think Dina is onto something... and I think Max was hurt by an adult. And I don't think Rebecca hurt Max. JMO

Alessandra_Deux wrote:DR. DREW

Mansion Death Accident or Murder?

Aired August 13, 2012 - 21:00 ET

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1208/13/ddhln.01.html

carlakay wrote:I would like to ask those of you who feel JS caused Max's accident why do you feel that way? There is no history of him ever harming any of the older children is there? Aside from the reports about his issues with Dina..as in his failure to control his dog from attacking a screaming banshee.. I haven't seen any evidence of prior violence from the man.Also why on earth would {KZ edit} cover for him if in fact he was still in the home when Max fell?

Freckles wrote:

carlakay wrote:I would like to ask those of you who feel JS caused Max's accident why do you feel that way? There is no history of him ever harming any of the older children is there? Aside from the reports about his issues with Dina..as in his failure to control his dog from attacking a screaming banshee.. I haven't seen any evidence of prior violence from the man.Also why on earth would {KZ edit} cover for him if in fact he was still in the home when Max fell?

---Has {KZ edit} covered for JS? I would like to read about that if you have a link, please.

---You say, " Aside from the reports about his issues with Dina..as in his failure to control his dog from attacking a screaming banshee.. I haven't seen any evidence of prior violence from the man." Do you think it is important the PD reports citing incidents of violence? How many others close to this case had such charges leveled against them not once but several times?

---How many incidents of violence against a "loved one" is acceptable before a level of concern is raised? Just asking. And if a man can attack his own wife, the mother of his child, his partner in the bed, a person he swore to stand by through all life has to offer, then what about his own children? Max is not here to tell us what really went on in the household; perhaps, the other children might someday? Or maybe an ex--? Or the housekeepers? JS is certainly not a saint in any book. Not with his company and not in his personal life. His presence has not been of any benefit to society although many opportunities have come his way. JMO. Tell me how you see it.

---Who are you calling a "screaming banshee"? A 2woman who is resisting violence against her? A woman being bitten by a dog? Gosh. I would call that justifiable emoting!

carlakay wrote:My apologies for using a minors name..wasn't aware that was a no-no.
Was "this girl" never questioned regarding Max's accident? It's been awhile since I read all the reports but I thought Rebecca and her sister both spoke to LE that day and both said JS had gone to the gym.

Just because I dont feel the man hurt hurt his kid doesnt mean I'm some sort of plant here to paint a picture of him being some sort of a saint..I just would like to know what is the reasoning why some view him as capable of causing his son's accident. I was calling Dina the banshee..considering I feel she is the one responsible for RZ's murder..I believe using the word banshee to describe her was kind. I read the police report regarding the DV issue that occurred between her and JS and I saw the photos..it's been awhile since reading it but if my memory is correct..both parties behaved like idiots and inflicted injury upon their so called loved one.
I just would like to know why people form thjeir opinions,that's all. My opinion of Dina being involved in Rebecca's death is due to the fact her child was brain dead after being left in the womans care..for me that is motive.

carlakay wrote:I dont know who Glaring Error is talking about but I have not written any sort of theory about any of the minors involved in this case. I have stated I would like some sort of proof the older children were in fact out of the home that morning and asked why RZ sister would not have informed LE that day about everyones whereabouts.

I also have no memory of any shopping trip this girl was taken on that day. If my memory serves she was transported by LE with RZ to a clinic to get stitches in her leg before being taken to the airport to fly home. She did not "see" her sister hung is one fact I am sure of.

I have doubts Max was murdered.You have a small boy..a young dog..two soccer balls..a scooter..a ruler and a balcony..(anyone see a pic of the ruler? was it in fact a ruler or was it longer..what I call a yardstick?) We also have an attorney for the RZ family bring up the term "planking". For me this is enough info to believe it is quite possible this child had a horrible accident.

Lash wrote:Snipped for context-

carlakay wrote:I dont know who Glaring Error is talking about but I have not written any sort of theory about any of the minors involved in this case. I have stated I would like some sort of proof the older children were in fact out of the home that morning and asked why RZ sister would not have informed LE that day about everyones whereabouts.

I also have no memory of any shopping trip this girl was taken on that day. If my memory serves she was transported by LE with RZ to a clinic to get stitches in her leg before being taken to the airport to fly home. She did not "see" her sister hung is one fact I am sure of.

I have doubts Max was murdered.You have a small boy..a young dog..two soccer balls..a scooter..a ruler and a balcony..(anyone see a pic of the ruler? was it in fact a ruler or was it longer..what I call a yardstick?) We also have an attorney for the RZ family bring up the term "planking". For me this is enough info to believe it is quite possible this child had a horrible accident.

RBM - Hi Carlakay!

In my opinion considering we now have accusations of an assault and homicide in Maxie's death, everyone's whereabouts in the last 12 hours should be verified. All the children and all the adults. Solid alibi's and not just hearsay. It will never be a proper LE investigation until this is done.

Regarding XZ and RZ shopping. It has been alleged that RZ took XZ shopping AT THE AIRPORT. The horror! I do not have a link to support this. I believe the shopping occurred when RZ took XZ to the airport to catch her flight back home. I personally see nothing salacious about this.

I would also like to see the size of the ruler. I would hope LE would have detailed a ruler versus a yardstick. In my opinion the ruler could have been used in multiple scenarios...planking or even to reach a chandelier. More importantly - why was the ruler not included in the evidence obtained in Det. Adkins search warrant? It is not listed and we're only now just learning about this ruler. Is the ruler in evidence or only seen in scene pictures? The soccer ball and scooter were obtained as evidence. Why not this ruler?

Inparadise wrote:

Lash wrote:Snipped for context-


RBM - Hi Carlakay!

In my opinion considering we now have accusations of an assault and homicide in Maxie's death, everyone's whereabouts in the last 12 hours should be verified. All the children and all the adults. Solid alibi's and not just hearsay. It will never be a proper LE investigation until this is done.

Regarding XZ and RZ shopping. It has been alleged that RZ took XZ shopping AT THE AIRPORT. The horror! I do not have a link to support this. I believe the shopping occurred when RZ took XZ to the airport to catch her flight back home. I personally see nothing salacious about this.

I would also like to see the size of the ruler. I would hope LE would have detailed a ruler versus a yardstick. In my opinion the ruler could have been used in multiple scenarios...planking or even to reach a chandelier. More importantly - why was the ruler not included in the evidence obtained in Det. Adkins search warrant? It is not listed and we're only now just learning about this ruler. Is the ruler in evidence or only seen in scene pictures? The soccer ball and scooter were obtained as evidence. Why not this ruler?

Just to add: XZ flew home on Tuesday afternoon, so there wasn't any shopping on Monday.

Lash wrote:JS's alleged voicemail to RZ was left at 12:30am Wednesday morning. The message was to inform her that Max had worsened and his death was imminent. This according to what Sgt. Dave Nemeth from the SDSO homicide unit reported on 9/2/2011.

Nemeth: Preliminary information I'm providing for you to give you perspective is things that happened just prior to the event. The last outgoing call from Rebecca's phone was found to be to her own voicemail at about 10 min. to one in the morning. We know from the investigation, that message that was left on her phone was to inform Rebecca of Max's grave condition and his imminent death. We also know that that was in contradiction to previous more positive reports that she had been receiving regarding his condition.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

BUT - Nina states the family did not know until Wednesday AFTER Rebecca's death the seriousness of Max's condition. So how did JS know at 12:30am when he left this alleged voicemail? In my opinion, the stories are inconsistent.

Nina: So it was a, Max had a consult on Wednesday and this was really, this was after Rebecca had passed, that he had this cardiac consult and that he had a MRI to find out the extent of the damage Wednesday morning was when we found out, Wednesday morning afternoon was when we found out the actual extent of the damage. And it was shocking.

Lash wrote:JS's alleged voicemail to RZ was left at 12:30am Wednesday morning. The message was to inform her that Max had worsened and his death was imminent. This according to what Sgt. Dave Nemeth from the SDSO homicide unit reported on 9/2/2011.

Nemeth: Preliminary information I'm providing for you to give you perspective is things that happened just prior to the event. The last outgoing call from Rebecca's phone was found to be to her own voicemail at about 10 min. to one in the morning. We know from the investigation, that message that was left on her phone was to inform Rebecca of Max's grave condition and his imminent death. We also know that that was in contradiction to previous more positive reports that she had been receiving regarding his condition.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

BUT - Nina states the family did not know until Wednesday AFTER Rebecca's death the seriousness of Max's condition. So how did JS know at 12:30am when he left this alleged voicemail? In my opinion, the stories are inconsistent.

Nina: So it was a, Max had a consult on Wednesday and this was really, this was after Rebecca had passed, that he had this cardiac consult and that he had a MRI to find out the extent of the damage Wednesday morning was when we found out, Wednesday morning afternoon was when we found out the actual extent of the damage. And it was shocking.

Inparadise wrote:

Lash wrote:JS's alleged voicemail to RZ was left at 12:30am Wednesday morning. The message was to inform her that Max had worsened and his death was imminent. This according to what Sgt. Dave Nemeth from the SDSO homicide unit reported on 9/2/2011.

Nemeth: Preliminary information I'm providing for you to give you perspective is things that happened just prior to the event. The last outgoing call from Rebecca's phone was found to be to her own voicemail at about 10 min. to one in the morning. We know from the investigation, that message that was left on her phone was to inform Rebecca of Max's grave condition and his imminent death. We also know that that was in contradiction to previous more positive reports that she had been receiving regarding his condition.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

BUT - Nina states the family did not know until Wednesday AFTER Rebecca's death the seriousness of Max's condition. So how did JS know at 12:30am when he left this alleged voicemail? In my opinion, the stories are inconsistent.

Nina: So it was a, Max had a consult on Wednesday and this was really, this was after Rebecca had passed, that he had this cardiac consult and that he had a MRI to find out the extent of the damage Wednesday morning was when we found out, Wednesday morning afternoon was when we found out the actual extent of the damage. And it was shocking.

And if Max's condition had worsened at 12:30 am on 7/13, and could die at any time like JS said, Why did heck did he go to RMH to get some sleep?????? It just doesn't add up........IMO.

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:JS's alleged voicemail to RZ was left at 12:30am Wednesday morning. The message was to inform her that Max had worsened and his death was imminent. This according to what Sgt. Dave Nemeth from the SDSO homicide unit reported on 9/2/2011.

Nemeth: Preliminary information I'm providing for you to give you perspective is things that happened just prior to the event. The last outgoing call from Rebecca's phone was found to be to her own voicemail at about 10 min. to one in the morning. We know from the investigation, that message that was left on her phone was to inform Rebecca of Max's grave condition and his imminent death. We also know that that was in contradiction to previous more positive reports that she had been receiving regarding his condition.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

BUT - Nina states the family did not know until Wednesday AFTER Rebecca's death the seriousness of Max's condition. So how did JS know at 12:30am when he left this alleged voicemail? In my opinion, the stories are inconsistent.

Nina: So it was a, Max had a consult on Wednesday and this was really, this was after Rebecca had passed, that he had this cardiac consult and that he had a MRI to find out the extent of the damage Wednesday morning was when we found out, Wednesday morning afternoon was when we found out the actual extent of the damage. And it was shocking.

Whatever.

I bet you a bag of meow mix that by Tuesday late day rounds
They were told that the clinical assessment had concluded brain death and
The MRI on Wednesday was simply imaging confirmation.

Entering hospital with those injuries plus not breathing for 25 minutes would not give any doctor a reason to say that 'we think he might make it'.

Inparadise wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Whatever.

I bet you a bag of meow mix that by Tuesday late day rounds
They were told that the clinical assessment had concluded brain death and
The MRI on Wednesday was simply imaging confirmation.

Entering hospital with those injuries plus not breathing for 25 minutes would not give any doctor a reason to say that 'we think he might make it'.

And then there was all the posting by Dina's BF's daughter about how Max would be fine by Christmas.....what BS!

Twinkie wrote:

Inparadise wrote:

And then there was all the posting by Dina's BF's daughter about how Max would be fine by Christmas.....what BS!

The BF's daughter's Witty profile, about page 8 under user's comments, says that Max is going to be ok. In fact, Tuesday July 12, 2011@3:55, she posts that he's not only better but off the life support! Who knows how the adults were telling the other kids about Max's prognosis.

http://www.wittyprofiles.com/author/iClaire/commentsbyuser/8

*Mods-Is there anyway to hide a picture of this child? It wasn't there before.

carlakay wrote:Freckles I agree JS reactions to almost every incident we have been privy to are beyond cold but just as you say there is only speculation where Dina could be a murderer the same can be said about every single one of em thats still taking in air.We can thank the fine work of those who investigated both deaths for that tho now cant we?
I dont know who Glaring Error is talking about but I have not written any sort of theory about any of the minors involved in this case. I have stated I would like some sort of proof the older children were in fact out of the home that morning and asked why RZ sister would not have informed LE that day about everyones whereabouts. I also have no memory of any shopping trip this girl was taken on that day. If my memory serves she was transported by LE with RZ to a clinic to get stitches in her leg before being taken to the airport to fly home. She did not "see" her sister hung is one fact I am sure of.
I have doubts Max was murdered.You have a small boy..a young dog..two soccer balls..a scooter..a ruler and a balcony..(anyone see a pic of the ruler? was it in fact a ruler or was it longer..what I call a yardstick?) We also have an attorney for the RZ family bring up the term "planking". For me this is enough info to believe it is quite possible this child had a horrible accident.
Was Dina informed of all immedietly upon learning the news? Highly doubtful and even if she had been..was she in any condition to retain that info..imo,no. all she knew..and she KNEW very early on that her son was brain dead after being left in the care of her ex husbands lover. We have witnesses who place Dina at the mansion the night RZ died..we have her twin sister admitting she was there that night..we have a balcony..we have a HARD rubber dogbone slightly under the bed..we have a cryptic message painted on a door..we have a victim who had several wounds to the top of her head..had been basicly hogtied before dropped to her death then left exposed an entire day after discovery. Every act this woman endured was done with pure dee hate. that's not speculation..that is my opinion based upon what little facts we do know. I believe she was murdered..I believe it is quite possible a woman or two is responsible for it.