YOU be the Judge

You be the Judge.

I need a few of you for your honest opinions here. I wasn't ever going to come forward with this because right now, only a few people have these. I was "praying' my tip of seeing Haleigh back in June would have been checked out but if it was, I would assume I would have been told "something" regarding it but never have.

I'm the one claiming I saw Haleigh back in June in Massachusetts. I am not the one from Abington who reported that Tip.

I have done so much investigating on this it isn't even funny. I can't even begin to explain to you how I came to the place I think I might have photos of Haleigh. Might that is..keep that in mind.

My story is too long and too detailed so for now, I will skip that part. what I need, are opinions!! Maybe someone can take my photos and enhance them. Please however, I am begging you. Do NOT put these photos all over the net!!!! that is critical to the investigation in case they are keeping my photos for what ever the reason. I need to trust you though. I need to trust you are only going to look and not share them with others. If I am wrong with this, then this is some other little girl and not haleigh and I wouldn't want to hurt someone else's family if I am wrong. These photos were taken back in November, days before Tommy got arrested. There's a photo I have that could look like Tommy in them but that is iffy.. the one's I think I have of Haleigh are more important. I noticed in the photos I have .. just recently because it was recently aired, that a blue ice cooler was taken out of the river, well.. there's a blue ice cooler in my photos too.

these photos were taken from a distance and it was raining out. I did some major spying on a place because all my work took me there. Again.. I could be WRONG but my gut is telling me it can not be ruled out. I will start by the first two people who enquire about my photos and I am taking a big leap with trust here.. please, for Haleighs sake, leave it to your opinions only. email me from this site with an email address of yours and I will forward what I have. Once you got them, give your opinions on them and come back here and tell me what you honestly think. Art Harris tried to tell me that I need to let Go because his sources tell me Haleigh is dead but I'm sorry, I do NOT believe that for one minute only because there have been NO remains, no arrests and no one telling the truth. I simply can't stand this wait any longer. Art Harris had viewed my photos prior to Haleigh being labeled as most likely dead and even he said they looked eerie and wanted my permission to forward them to his LE sources. Since then, I have not heard if this residence was checked out or not. I could drive there again and do some scopeing out but I am disabled and the rides are too hard on me. I certainly don't want to run into under cover agents if they in fact are sitting and watching.

So.. if you were me, what would you do?????? If you enquire about the photos and don't hear back from me, that's because two others already beat you to see them but I will make sure the two I let see, comes back to voice what they think on this board. I can't stress enough how important it will be not to share them.. so please, I am going to put trust into this. There are a lot of photos and only 12 can be sent at a time. I'll wait to hear from you.. and a huge thank you for checking them out. also, LE do have my photos, all was forwarded to the Sheriffs department in putnam county about a month or two ago.

Just to update you, two from the board are viewing the pics and one thinks its her too. I will write up a story what I had witnessed each time we went there best I can.. this is so damn upsetting.. can someone tell me if a blue cooler in fact was taken out of the river when they had searched it?!

Butterfly...If I recall correctly, the cooler that you refer to was an item that LE Investigators were using...It was a piece of their equipment...

I've been looking all over for the photo's but this is the only one I can find (so far) and yes, Estee, LE said it contained a sifter that they were using & brought there. I'm still looking for that article/video of it being said.



I think it was NG that first reported that it was a blue cooler that they found. I know I heard or saw something that LE said about it specifically & they claimed it was equipment that they brought to the river.

you guys are all correct on the cooler because fystyangel cleared that one up.. here is my story to those photos.. and fystyangel, you can tell your thoughts to my photos here and ask what you want.. but I thought of more so read..

Ok, this is what happened each time we went to this residence.

The very first time..... we went closer to night time. We parked in the parking lot and didn't see anyone home. With in 10-15 minutes, a white Vehicle pulls up. A black guy goes to the sliding glass door. We decided to move because we couldn't see too good where we were sitting. so, we found another lot to park in but we were further away. We had binoculars though so we could see fairly well. About another 10 minutes goes by, the black guy comes out and so does this white girl. They are seen talking... two more minutes goes by, a white girl comes out of the main entrance, she hooks up with the black guy and gets into the white vehicle leaving the other girl at the slider. She's seen pacing back and fourth on her cell phone talking. 10 more minutes passes and that's when I noticed this little girl coming out of the main entrance. the girl on her cell motions for her to go back in. My heart was pounding just to witness a white little girl there.

A little more time passes and the girl on her cell gets into the white vehicle and they all leave. We figured nothing more was going to happen so shortly there after, we leave. While we are backing up and getting on the road to the complex, this Van drives by us slowly, two black guys peers over to look at us while we are making a right turn. In my rear view mirror I notice the van had stopped.. then I noticed them backing up.. we pulled over, I was nervous thinking they were going to question us but instead they just left. I found that suspicious just by the way they looked at us. On our way home it dawned on me, what if the girl on the cell was calling for someone to watch the little girl inside. I wished we didn't leave at the time.

Second time we went there, at one point I took my dog out to pee.. mind you, this was only the second trip and the first trip we were only there for maybe an hour if not shorter.. anyway, while I'm standing there under a tree, I notice the black guy walking past our car on what seemed like a nextel phone. It seemed like a walkie talkie device. As he walked by, he bent over just to look at our license plate. I immediately got back in the car and told hubby we better leave because someone is scopeing us out. but why I wondered? Is someone keeping their eye out on the very same residence?? We pulled out of the parking lot and went to the office to make it appear we were enquiring about rentals.. the place was closed but as I was walking back to the car, the black guy still had his eye on me. He was still talking on the phone from a distance but staring right at me.

The third time we went there we were only parked for about 20 minutes when I saw who appeared to fit the description of Haleigh. She had the long hair and her size seemed to be around the age of 5-6. this little girl kept looking out the sliding glass door. She appeared kinda sad best I can say that. ( photos were taken but sadly they can't make out her face). about 15 minutes later, this mexican guy is seen knocking at the door of the slider, he talks to a girl there but never acknowledges the little girl standing there. As soon as the mexican guy leaves.. the little girl is waving frantically to him goodbye. She is jumping up and down until he is completely out of sight and then she is seen standing there sad again. In viewing this little girl by binoculars, I could swear it was haleigh.. my heart was pounding like you would not believe but I know I need solid proof to report this to law enforcement here and even if they were to go to this residence, its not like the perps are going to say " here she is".. aside that, one has to be let in by being buzzed in unless someone went to the slider!!

the fourth time, nothing happened.. no one was there.

The fifth time, the little girl was seen inside by the slider. a very nice day and yet she was not seen outside. Two black guys came to the slider to drop off what appeared to be a bag of food and a bag of clothing. they never went inside though.. just talked at the slider, dropped the stuff off.. and then left. another young girl went to the slider, knocked.. and stood outside talking to an adult for a good five minutes before she was let in. one things for sure, we have yet to see this white little girl outside beyond that slider!!

last report I have and I'm not sure where this fits in.. wether it be in between the second or third trip...but I remember going there and parking in our usual spot, we waited for 45 minutes because all seemed dark inside.. slider curtain was closed, no lights seemed on.. the weather was very over cast so it looked very dark out.. it was around 3pm. A group of people came and spread out.. some went in by the main entrance and others went in through the slider but as time went on... I saw that little girl at the slider and yet for 45 minutes, it appeared no one was even home. Was that little girl left inside all by herself I wonder. she certainly didn't get in there when the group of people arrived and went different ways in. It amazes me how we had yet to see her outside.. it amazed me to see her take to this mexican guy when he didn't even act like she was there.. it also amazed me someone was checking out our plate by our second visit when no way someone was taking notice from the first. What about those two black guys in the van that peered over when we were making that right hand turn only to see them back up, turn around... and leave. Something very strange is going on at this residence for sure!!! not to mention my photos that I am shocked I can't be told either way if they have been checked out. I mean I get it.. LE would need solid proof. they would need a warrant to search as well. If Haleigh is at that address, no one is just going to hand her over!!! I am going to try it again very soon because I can't stand it anymore!! argghhhh!!

so to the two people who have my photos.. take a good look at the mexican guy.. the little girl went nuts when he was leaving.. also take a look at that young boy too.. I say that because I think of Jr. and I have no clue why he'd be all the way here but nothing could be over looked.. the reason I say to look at him.. is because look at his shirt.. notice the design in that shirt.. I had seen something similar to a photo that Jr was in with Crystal and that shirt he was wearing was a red checkered type shirt that was short sleeved with another long sleeve shirt under it.. the little boy that appeared in one of my photos with the two black guys.. look at his shirt.. same style just different color.. just a thought, can't over look anything when looking at them. .. now that I think of it, the two black guys dropped off bags of clothes and never went in.. that little boy was with them and left with them too. so if that was jr and haleigh was inside, they never even saw each other.. just a huge thought on that one.

butterfly, very interesting, but you really need to be careful!

Some innocent looking places around where I live if you stop your car and park for one second the drug sellers are aware of it and several will watch and wait to see who is making the deal. If no one is making a deal, then they suppose you to be watching them.

In some neighborhoods off the main drag, if you drive through just to turn around or something, the drug sellers DO notice every strange car and will do the same as above.

I have cop friends who told me this after it happened to me in both a neighborhood and a residential area along a main street. I was driving through the neighborhood because I used to live there when I was 5 and was looking my old house. I stopped along side a main road where this happened to me when I dropped my cigarette in the floor and wanted to get it.

If these people are nervous about you being there, it might be drugs and not anything to do with Haleigh, so I just wanted to share.

I am floored with the picturs. Not only do they look like HaLeigh...but the ones you point out that could possibly be Tommy, yes, you are correct. They certainly do look like him.

I, too, want to caution you. Be very careful.

Now, back to the photo's. I have been following your postings for quite some time, so I do know a little about how you got to the events, in which you found this place to take the photo's. The Croslins all look alike, so the ones that look like Tommy, really could be any Croslin (though it does appear to be him). The ears sort of give them away.

I'm having some issues with my finger this afternoon. I dropped a skillet & when I went to grab it, yes, dumb ass me, grabbed it with my left hand. Smacked my sore finger good! I'll write more later, after it stops throbbing.

I changed my screen resolution to 800 by 600 to make the pictures bigger and zoomed in on them, but they still weren't clear enough for me to say for sure whether the girl was Haleigh or not. It could have been her. The guy in the pics did resemble Tommy. I wish their faces had turned out clearer.

Like Fysty said, many of the Croslins look alike, so it could be another one. There is one problem if it was Tommy in the pictures. If he knew Haleigh was still alive, I don't think he would be sitting in jail making up some story about Joe throwing Haleigh in the river. What would he have to gain by protecting the people who were holding Haleigh in Massachusetts?

I hope that LE has checked out your lead butterfly. It may not turn out to be her, but I think it is worth checking into. If it's nothing, they can at least rule it out. If it is Haleigh, they can finally bring her home and put everybody's mind at ease.

Thanks for viewing. We too tried to blow them up but no luck. the reason why (blurred) is because the day we took those, it was raining out, we sat from quite the distance but we had zoom on the camera. Those pics were taken through the car windshield.

I certainly didn't go alone thats for sure and my protector does have a license to carry ( just saying) so no, I wasn't in any fear at all but thanks for the heads up.

Far as why Tommy wouldn't tell or not.. well now, who ever took Haleigh, if she is alive, Kidnapping is pretty much a life sentence and those involved are going down... forever and ever and ever ( had to add that. lol)

Far as LE checking it out, FBI here would never return my calls. I faxed over all information and said if they'd like to see my photos, they can come here to my house. This was well over four months ago.. back in November. Don't think they check it ALL out, I beg to differ with that one.

In listening to NG ( far as we can throw her) I was hearing on the 11-12 theory's? in one of those, it said that Timmy and Chelsea are hidding Haleigh. First time I heard of that theory. However, Timmy and Chelsea are two hours away from where I live now.. wait, closer to 3 hours. The residence I scoped is 40 minutes away but closer in their direction. The reason I got led to that residence is because that residence and Timmy's myspace groupies, shared the very same picture.. except the the residence the shared photo came from was on his bebo page and not myspace. The start to this residence was because of a guy who attended my doctors office who just happened to reside a stones throw away from Timmy and Chelsea to where the place here, and the place there, can not be ruled out its owned by the same person... did I just confuse everyone? going by memory. and it was my doctors office that I witnessed Haleigh at. ( in case others didn't know)... Too many coincidentals I'm telling ya.

I really believe it all boils down to Misty not saying she was asleep at the time. And Tommy who is rotting in jail who will say just about anything to where Misty would rather point the finger then implicate herself. Yes, she only left the trailer but it makes her responsible to what happened to haleigh being she should have been home that night. Misty doesn't dare report she was away due to worrying WHAT RON WOULD THINK. I feel like a broken record.. sorry. thanks again fystyangel and waiting4justice... just know, what I viewed in the binoculars when hubby was taking those photos .. I was 95% sure it was her! If I could only see her birthmark it would be solid!!

Far as Haleighs medical condition, Haleighs family knew her best and if she was that sick, they still wouldn't be holding out hope. I believe Ron had said Haleigh used an inhalor. Fairly easy for any adult to get her, then pass it on to a child. And do you even know... the guy I have "connected" to Haleigh at the docs, called in for an inhalor. I was in the other room waiting to be seen when I heard his name being mentioned while they talked. Now, I hardly think he drove three hours to get that inhalor, or.. did he drive less then half hours time. another coincidence? nurse told him she can give him a script for an inhalor. ... and when I heard that Name.. I was thinking what are the chances????

btw..the above post was this guy called into the office and I heard them ( he and staff) talking from another room. she spoke his name and then mentioned the inhalor and I sat there recognizing the name and thought.. hmmm, did haleigh need an inhalor.

One has to understand one thing, I will never forget the "look" that little girl gave me. I love all children because I'm just that type to try and get a child to smile when they look down. I was shocked to not only see her being carried in, but even more shocked to see her being carried out. "especially" because the young girl who brought her in was already walking a very very small child. It didn't look right. the young girl came in to use the bathroom and that was all. At some point, she would have had to put the bigger child down. so why pick her up again. Although the child, the one i thought was haleigh looked sad, she didn't appear to be sick. I tried to get her to smile and the stare she had, was what got me mezmerized to the point it dawned on me who she looked like exactly. Ever since then, I still have that look embedded in my brain. I can't let go of that until I hear Haleigh is found.

Let me see if I understand what you're saying, butterfly.

You think Haleigh is with family in Massachusetts?

And they are using some non-family person to get an inhalor for her?

And that by coincidence someone carried Haleigh in to the doctor's office, not to be seen but just so the person would use the bathroom there? And this is the same doctor's office the person getting the inhalor for her under their own name was?

Close? Or no banana for me? :)

In the mean time awaiting clarification by butterfly, I want to address the possibility that Haleigh is still alive at all.

I don't think she is!

Main reason, because if family of Misty had taken her they'd have no emotional reason to keep her alive once she became a liability. And it would be way too easy to kill her and hide her remains once they had her out of the area - like say, Massachusetts. Unless, they took her for a prank that snowballed out of control and can't bring themselves to kill her and also can't bring themselves to give her back. But I don't think the latter would be the case because once Misty called 911 about Haleigh being missing even the most dim-witted person on earth would have given her back straight away and at least lied and said Misty forgot she told them to babysit her. Just a big ole misunderstanding! ;)

If a stranger had abducted her while Misty was out of the trailer, then it's a sure bet in my mind that she'd have been snuffed out due to being too big a liability to risk being caught with.

I think Haleigh died on her little mattress, as part of her dying process she peed the bed and Misty washed the linens (as she said she washed her blanket)- explaining any pee on the mattress as she just peed the bed- and she got one of her cousins/brothers to come in and take Haleigh away during the night before Ron came home and found out she'd let Haleigh die. Little Junior saw the 'man in black' come into the room and take Haleigh away!

Did Junior say Haleigh woke up and wanted to know what was going on? No! Did he even say she grunted or moved or anything? No!

Junior's statement is the most truthful thing in this case. He saw a man come in and take (a seemingly comatose Haleigh) from her bed!

She was DEAD! From what? Drugs? Not having her inhalor? Who knows!

But let's wonder why Junior was awakened and not Haleigh?

It's no secret Ron used corporeal punishment on Haleigh (and probably on Junior too). It was said Misty called Ron at work because Haleigh would not go to bed that night! It was said Ron told Misty to whip her until she went to bed! Thus, it seems Ron encouraged beating his children. What does this mean in regard to Junior being awake, seeing Haleigh being taken away and just lying there awake watching?

With abuse cases where beatings are a normal event, sibs tend to keep quiet when the other is being punished for fear of being struck themselves to STFU! If Haleigh had been whipped the night before bed, Junior might be awakened to noises that night of talking and he may have seen someone come in and take Haleigh and just laid there pretending to be asleep so he didn't suffer some wrath if her beating that night was still fresh in his little mind.

Junior also said he heard the couch 'bouncing'. That's an odd word to use to describe the couch making noises from people flopping around on it. But for a child, who may like to jump/bounce on a couch, and having been told not to do it, if he heard the familiar sounds similar to when he 'bounced' on the couch, I think that is probably what he heard and it could have been Misty getting frustrated and plopping down in despair that night over and over as they figured out what to do with a dead child. Junior would have given it significance because of being reprimanded not to do bounce on the couch, so he added it because he saw 'something wrong' with it.

I don't believe a family member took Haleigh.. I think Misty was tricked into leaving by Nay Nay so Amber Brooks could get her revenge on both Misty and Ron. Did Amber have motive? You bet she did. Another coincidence to my story is that the cape cod guy who attends my doctors office last name is "brooks". If this is all coincidental.. I have never had so many coincidentals happen like this ever before. Again, only my theorys and only time will tell what really went down all together. Someone Amber knew as well could have taken her. When any crime is committed, the next that follows is "motive". Jmho

the theorys to what I think happened to that are only theory's. but what I saw is not a theory. I was only trying to piece together how I thought I could have seen her at the office and that is all. This is what I do know.

1) A guy by the last name of Brooks attends my doctors office. Residents to this brooks guy Lives in W. Dennis. on Cape Cod. Chelsea and Timmy are in S. Dennis. On Cape Cod. From W. Dennis to my doctors office is a three hour drive * detective I spoke to said the distance was unusual.

2) the other name "brooks" is also in Oxford Ma. Is the Oxford Ma and the W. Dennis Ma the same person? the Brooks in Oxford shares the same photo with timmy. didn't see that (photo) for many months after seeing who I thought was Haleigh at my doctors office. It got me to investigate both residences to where one of them shows the little girl in the photo.

3) over heard a phone conversation between brooks and office staff. I was in another room waiting to be seen. The girl on the phone told brooks his cold was probably due to the dry air but will have him take albuterol ( which is an inhalor)

4) I found the last name "odd" .. brooks.. in so far its the same last name as Amber brooks. Does Amber have any off the wall relatives who would help her, who knows.. I don't know any of it other then to wonder how it was I was able to see a little girl that looked exactly like haleigh cummings back in June of 09.

Also- The Brooks guy in W. Dennis- he resides in a runned down motel that was converted into condos. His daddy travels to Florida who owns the place. Found that out by a tenant who is renting. We acted like we were interesting in renting one to find out information. The father, who owns these runned down condo's, said he would call us on two different units. We never heard back from him at all. with that said, makes me wonder if the brooks in w. dennis was just staying there temporary while occupying the residence in Oxford. Ma. All could be theory's so who knows.

Can you catch me up to speed, butterfly? What is Amber Brooks' motive? I haven't paid too much attention to this case.

AJ said....
Lottie,

You have stated an allegation that I havet heard of ..you said...
"It was said Misty called Ron at work because Haleigh would not go to bed that night! It was said Ron told Misty to whip her until she went to bed!"

I have heard that it is alleged that Ron had called Misty many times that evening and she wud not answer his calls because of the fight .....

I realize LE has all the phone records ands cud have easily seen if their was communication between the 2 ...
I am wondering if this allegation was made by AH NG LP Cobra.. etc lol .. It is a new one..

Also, if Haleigh dies in the house, I did think the cadavers wud have hit on that and it is said that they didnt.. I believe they said they picked up her scent out the back to a path in the woods.... ??

It is a shame that IMO the CSI was done poorly and that the blanket from Haleighs bed (in which is alleged to have been tossed over a railing outside for the dogs to examine.. was ruined for much more possible evidence... I do believe if Haleigh had died in the house, there wud have been indicators of that and as far as I know there wasnt ..in fact on account that LE had called this a missing person, suggests to me that there was no suspicion of death at least not in the house... JMO

Hmm...good points! Let me think about it and will post back later! Daughter is on her way here with her dude so I have to go put a bra on! LOL

I don't know how you saw your Haleigh look alike...I thought I saw Caylee in Miami in Oct 2008 when I went there to take care of my daughter after surgery...I scrutinized every 2-4 year old child I saw and this girl I saw was a dead ringer for Caylee...Of course we all know now that there was no way it could have been her...I had my doubts...I even searched phone records for a Zenaida Fernandez-Gonsales...and to no avail went to Little Havana with a Spanish fluent person to ask if anybody knew her or Caylee...I certainly got some weird looks, but none the less did my part in her search...I sooo wanted Caylee to be found alive and I want Haleigh to be found alive too, but I'm afraid they are together laughing and playing and having a wonderful time and wondering why people can't just "let it be"...wait for the time of justice...I know it will come...WHEN is the big question....

If Nay Nay or Amber took Haleigh or plotted for her to be taken.. unless they want "life" behind bars for kidnapping they are NOT going to talk. Is this maybe the reason why Nay Nay wrote the jail house letter claiming Haleigh over dosed on pills? to make it appear like the child died? to take the heat off those who have her? I find it odd that Nay Nay says and I quote " we supposively freaked out".. well, you either freaked out or you didn't. If they freaked out, Nay Nay would have just said " we freaked out".. Nay Nay made her letter out to be a story and if Nay Nay had no involvement at all or what so ever, why the need to even write such a letter. You keep mentioning that 35 thousand dollar reward... and yet 35 thousand to those who did it certainly are not going to say.. I did it nor are they going to blab to friends JMO. I'm sure those who are involved are not going to breathe a word to anyone and risk getting caught with a sentence for life. this is why I wanted that residence checked out. So someone can tell me "we checked it "..and it was nothing. I can't for the life of me know "exactly" what happened.. Alls I know is what I saw. Yes I have my suspicions but certainly doesn't mean I am right.

Well Estee I do hear what you are saying, but If everyone just figured who they saw was a double and ignored it, then no child would ever be found. The only thing I can do is sit and wait and see what happens. I've done all I could do, I reported it all to LE here and forwarded all information to satsuma florida. so again, only time will tell.

At the very least Estee, your account of what you thought you saw didn't get you to turn the other way which is exactly how it makes a person feel. Which is how it made me feel. What if in fact it was Haleigh and I ignored that? I'd rather it be ruled out all together and I don't see why I can't be told either way.

I hope your queries are investigated Butterfly...and that it is Haleigh, but the cogs of justice turn slowly at times and I'm not gonna hold my breath until you get your answers...LE has their hands full and can only do so much..You have done quite a bit of sleuthing and I hope your involvement pays off in the long run...Not monetarily but satifaction wise...Still praying for a good outcome in this case...

awaiting justice wrote:Lottie,

You have stated an allegation that I havet heard of ..you said...
"It was said Misty called Ron at work because Haleigh would not go to bed that night! It was said Ron told Misty to whip her until she went to bed!"

I have heard that it is alleged that Ron had called Misty many times that evening and she wud not answer his calls because of the fight .....

I realize LE has all the phone records ands cud have easily seen if their was communication between the 2 ...
I am wondering if this allegation was made by AH NG LP Cobra.. etc lol .. It is a new one..

I heard this allegation before, but it wasn't about the night Haleigh disappeared. I found an old post on AH's site which was probably repeated and possibly twisted on NG.

According to co-workers within earshot of Ronald Cummings at Palatka, Florida’s PDM Bridge, Misty Croslin sounded hysterical when she called one night weeks before the 17 year old babysitter reported his daughter, Haleigh, had vanished while he was at work and she was asleep with the kids.

“I remember she called him in tears, because the little girl was giving her fits and he told her, ‘Whip her, just whip her and make her be quiet,’” recalls fellow crane operator Eric Zastrow, 32, in an exclusive interview with The Bald Truth. “He said, ‘Just whip the little brat, she needs to understand it’s time to go to bed, or put a movie in for her.’ Then he hung up.”

Source: http://www.artharris.com/2009/04/27/exclusive-haleigh-cummings-dads-solid-alibi/

AJ, WERE cadavor dogs inside the house?

Were cadavor dogs used at all besides to check that dumpster months later?

All I heard, and I know I haven't followed as closely as some have, but all I heard was that dogs (not cadaver dogs) tracked Haleigh's scent from the back door to down some path or something and then it stopped at railroad tracks.

LE initially went looking for a kidnapped child in a house where the propped open door seemed to be the likely exit strategy. Did they START at the door and only check outside? If so, and even so, big deal since the child lived there and left a scent all over the place.

Something that might be interesting... if Haleigh had died on her mattress is that a possible reason why Misty wanted to say Haleigh was sleeping in bed with her?

Justice4all wrote:

awaiting justice wrote:Lottie,

You have stated an allegation that I havet heard of ..you said...
"It was said Misty called Ron at work because Haleigh would not go to bed that night! It was said Ron told Misty to whip her until she went to bed!"

I have heard that it is alleged that Ron had called Misty many times that evening and she wud not answer his calls because of the fight .....

I realize LE has all the phone records ands cud have easily seen if their was communication between the 2 ...
I am wondering if this allegation was made by AH NG LP Cobra.. etc lol .. It is a new one..

I heard this allegation before, but it wasn't about the night Haleigh disappeared. I found an old post on AH's site which was probably repeated and possibly twisted on NG.

According to co-workers within earshot of Ronald Cummings at Palatka, Florida’s PDM Bridge, Misty Croslin sounded hysterical when she called one night weeks before the 17 year old babysitter reported his daughter, Haleigh, had vanished while he was at work and she was asleep with the kids.

“I remember she called him in tears, because the little girl was giving her fits and he told her, ‘Whip her, just whip her and make her be quiet,’” recalls fellow crane operator Eric Zastrow, 32, in an exclusive interview with The Bald Truth. “He said, ‘Just whip the little brat, she needs to understand it’s time to go to bed, or put a movie in for her.’ Then he hung up.”

Source: http://www.artharris.com/2009/04/27/exclusive-haleigh-cummings-dads-solid-alibi/

Thank you, AJ! Wrong night, same story. 8)

But I want to say the bedtime drama can play out on any given night, and I still believe Junior saw what he said he saw and Misty may have been upset with -maybe both- kids before they went to bed, causing Junior to be afraid to question his sister being oddly removed. Especially if she'd been fighting with Ron and didn't want to sit the kids that night in the first place as Ms Hollars suggested. O.O

I can't help trying to figure that Haleigh died and Misty and clan covered it up, because I don't see any reason for anyone to take Haleigh from Ron no matter how pissed off at him and for whatever reason they might be. Their records don't show anything of such a caliber as murder or kidnapping. They peak at beating people up, stealing and drugs...little things by comparison.

Butterfly.. i commend you for doing your part. you let LE know about what you think you may have seen (haleigh), and i do hope that they have checked it out.

however, i think that it may be best that you let LE do what LE is supposed to do, and STAY AWAY from that area. I know you probably feel that you are doing what is right, but you dont need to turn yourself into the next victim. these things you have described seem awful shady, and you even mentioned one saw your license plate #. that is all that is needed for them to find your home, and i think we can all agree that is not a good thing.

i have prayed long and hard for haleigh to be returned alive, however, i feel all there is to ask for now is justice. and i believe that will come, in time.

Many great points, AJ!

Problem Number One with this case is, it's hard to think like that bunch probably thinks. We have no idea how their simpleton minds work, but one thing is apparent...they are always breaking the laws in one way or another and don't think they'll be caught when the do. One could say they are quite arrogant about that.

The door being propped open suggests many things to me, but I don't think it was done to stage a kidnap. I think either someone was hiding inside the house and took Haleigh after Misty was asleep and propped the door open so it wouldn't slam shut or something and wake Misty, OR someone who was there earlier propped it on their way out in advance planning of coming ack for Haleigh (would have needed a key for that though) OR Misty and an accomplice propped it open so no one would have to touch the door/leave fingerprints to get Haleigh's body out of the house and Misty forgot to unprop it. (These people are not closers! All they do is start things, but don't finish well.) The first scenario sounds less complicated so....

What if Misty is telling the truth that she woke up and Haleigh was gone! What if a pedophile was hiding inside the house and took Haleigh after Misty went to sleep? Do these alleged pedophiles still have Haleigh? And is she the little girl butterfly has seen?

Hi everyone, Sorry for the delay, I had a couple really bad days pain wise.

I am taking the advice to stay away and leave it to LE. God knows I tried probably more then I should have. My body can't tollerate the car rides as it is. Damn Depo Provera that destroyed my bones! ( another story) but I need to take care of me and I can't risk not one fall. Last fall i had took place last summer that laid me up the entire summer we had all because I fell over. I didn't fall out of a building, get in an auto accident.. or anything other then a simply fall over from losing my balance. unreal is what it is. Anywayssss.. nuff of my self pity party.

I just pray what ever happened to Haleigh, no matter what it is that happened, is brought to the surface so the members to Haleigh.. friends, family and those who were close, can finally have some peace in their lives. Loseing a child is the worst mental pain a person can ever suffer, unfortunately I know that first hand but what makes that more over the top.. is to NOT know what happened. At least my son had a proper burial which is what Haleigh deserves if that's in fact what had happened. ( any child for that matter)

Far as the reward money, Its sad any reward has to be posted to get others to talk or come forward. If by any chance my tip ever led them to Haleigh, and that's a really big " If"... I would donate that back into missing children only because this is what the money represented to begin with. My biggest reward out of the entire thing would be... to have the biggest grin from ear to ear knowing the child was found. There truly isn't anything more rewarding then that. May God bring closure to Haleigh, her family and close friends is what I'm praying for.

When I watch NG or JVM or any news reports for that matter, I take it with a grain of salt because NG and JVM are always hyping wrong, and the news is usually sound biting something old news or are behind.

I remember when Michael Jackson died. I can't remember what channel I was watching when the news broke, but they said he was dead and this about the time MJ was taken from the hotel. The other channels said he wasn't dead and was at the hospital. Hours or so later after the fans had gathered outside the hospital, all the other channels started saying he had died at the hospital, but that one channel still held that he was dead before he went there. Of course, you know that was the case that he was dead before he was taken to the hospital, he just wasn't pronounced officially dead until much later after the crowds had gathered outside the hospital. Anyway, it was confusing to hear 2 different counts of a death or no death! You don't mess that up, you know? You don't go around saying someone is dead when it's not known for a fact. I believed the channel that reported his death right away for that reason, and in retrospect I figured the other channels had only gotten a sound bite that some publicist wanted to put out, or they were reporting without having investigated first.

So my point is, NG and JVM and lots of news reports don't investigate anything! And so I don't rely on any of them as anything other than a jumping off point to try to learn actual facts from by watching video clips to see and hear directly what the people involved are saying and how they are reacting.

This case is absent so many facts that people should have known! Such as, Misty should have known where Haleigh was sleeping! It's just not too much to ask that she get at least that one thing right!

That's why I think, by my logic, that Haleigh was dead in that house and I don't put much faith in any reports of the dogs not sniffing out a dead body inside that house that first day because they weren't looking for that...and I just think a lot of times cops take one path at the beginning and usually that's the one they are given....so they were given that Haleigh was abducted and had no reason to think otherwise that first night. And if the dogs HAD alerted to the smell of death, the cops wouldn't necessarily have mentioned it without further indication and corroborative evidence that the smell was from Haleigh.

It's like with Casey. The cops investigated Caylee as being missing at first because that's what was called in. Sure, since Cindy had told the 911 operator she smelled death in the car they probably thought they could have a dead child instead, but they had to investigate what they were sent there to investigate until they saw something that led them in a different direction.

That happened when they tested the car trunk/found the hair etc. And what was it, like 3 months after the kidnapping report that they charged Casey with murder?

Satsuma LE probably thought in short order that Haleigh was dead. And they needed to get that entire group separated so they did that sting on Ron and Misty in hopes one of them would break and say something about Haleigh. Misty keeps freaking out! Ron sits like a cool cucumber. In my mind, that makes Ron look suspicious in that he is holding back what he knows about Haleigh's death...he has to act cool to keep his story straight...from Casey's mouth to our ears (Flora Hollars credit, LOL) she said she couldn't be upset because she had to keep cool to talk to the cops and not let them trick her into a 'false' confession.

What about Misty freaking out? I have thought from the beginning and still to, that Misty was told a story to tell and she is keeping to it albeit with variations of it. None of what she is saying is true, and that's why she keeps failing the polys. Does she know the truth? Sure she does, but probably not all of it. I doubt she knows where Haleigh was taken, but I think she knows who took her there. And I really really think Ron arranged the story to tell.

Just to speculate possibilities, Ron allegedly called Misty multiple times that night, then finally allegedly called Tommy to go over there. Ron seemingly was desperate to get in touch with Misty for some reason. Why? What set Ron off?

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts whatever it was had something to do with what happened to Haleigh that night and Ron doesn't want anyone to know about it. Maybe Ron got a call at work that someone was pissed off at him and was going by his house to do something? Maybe he was trying to warn Misty? And maybe he was so desperate to warn her that he called Tommy?

But then, he stops for a beer, peanuts and a pack of cigarettes. I don't find that unusual at all that a smoker would want to make sure he has smokes that night if he thought it was going to be a long night. If he didn't think it was going to be a long night and he was just going home to bed, he could have gone out for cigs in the morning. (a smoker myself, I don't personally believe he was that short of cigarette supply that he just had to stop for a pack that night if he was only going home to go to bed) He got ONE beer, not a six pack. And a bag of nuts. Hence, IMO, he knew he was going to be up a while, needed to curb some hunger, his nerves (probably before he got home...can't imagine there not being any beer in his frig) and was going to be smoking like a chimney.

Ah well, someday maybe it will all come out. And Ron passing his poly? I think he could fool a poly because he's so cool! And anyway, maybe he knows that little trick where you squeeze your butt cheek muscles before answering and you can lie without detection. LOL

I personally think Ron was sitting cool as a cucumber (his drug arrest) because he was a part of the sting. (jmo though)

the reason I say that is because Ron claimed he would kill the person/people responsible and he doesn't care if he has to spend his entire life behind bars or not.. with that stated, would he spend time behind bars to finally get to the truth? I do believe so.

I think the reasons why Ron wanted all the focus to stay on Haleigh.. ( which by all means, no doubt).. but the hiding things we see in Ron is my opinion to say that Ron is guilty of other things.. like drugs, having guns, having a temper, probably going over board in the repremanding his children department... people finding out he's not paying child support to his disabled son Jordan.. things of that nature.. and the list probably could still continue.. but do I think Ron had Knowledge about Haleigh, who took her, who did it and so fourth, No. Which is why I think its the only reason NG stood by Rons side. This entire thing is about Haleigh and NG was there and saw Ron's true colors of breaking down and crying over Rons loss. Ron is many things as we can all see, but when it comes to Haleigh, he would kill for her. Again, only my opinions.

BTW... I don't form my opinions what Nancy Grace has to say, I don't form my opinions what any news channel has to report. I form my opinions from the parties.. Ron, Misty, Chelsea, Tommy, Grandma Flo.. From what THEY say. If it doesn't come out of the horses mouth, I take what is said with a grain of salt.

I was just listening to a jail house recording that was recently put online. Anyway, it was a conversation between Tommy and Lindsy. One thing I picked up on is each and every time Tommy told his wife he loved her, Lindsy changed the subject.. each time he said it too. heres the link.. click on tape after it comes up.

http://www.bloggernews.net/124465

Tommy is complaining as well the money Lindsy spent and in reading other posts to that site, they kill me about Lindsy spending all the money. If you listen, Lindsy does make mention the money she had to spend.. ie: bills, money for Tommy, money for the kids..ect.. However, I have a feeling Lindsy is not loving Tommy like she once use to.. not surprising, not what I'm meaning. I'm meaning that Tommy didn't pick up on it.. Tommy, throughout that entire conversation chimes in to say " I love you" and quickly Lindsy changes the subject.. you mean to tell me Tommy couldn't pick up on that?? hmmm

Butterfly, I have to applaud you and your determination on this. I'd also like to add that I am very sorry to hear that you have lost a son.

Piper wrote:Butterfly, I have to applaud you and your determination on this. I'd also like to add that I am very sorry to hear that you have lost a son.

I'm guilty of speed reading through this thread, and missing parts, but would like to ditto Piper's comment.

Thank you piper. words can never express what it means when a person like you tells me how sorry you are for my loss but its felt more then one can imagine. A sudden loss with words of "your son is dead" .. by phone, are words no one is ever prepared to hear. 2 years and 7 months later I still reflect back to the call that changed my life forever only to hope and pray I can channel that horrible feeling into something positive. For those who read this who have children... enjoy each and every moment you have... don't be like I was into thinking it can never happen and be fooled into thinking that type of pain would never be yours to handle. I was once like that myself and now I am one of those who actually knows the feeling. Thank you piper, although I obviously dont know you, your words have touched me tremendously.

* Although our children are our children, they are only ours until God calls them back home....love them and always protect them best you can.

butterfly, i too am sorry to hear about your son.. but i LOVE the words at the end of your post. --very true.

I feel your pain, butterfly...I lost my youngest son last June...At least I know we'll be together again in the future...He is gone but not forgotten and still loved by many...Some of his friends have put poems, flowers and Rosaries on his Memorial Marker...

I truly meant what I said, butterfly64. You don't need to thank me, although I appreciate it. I can't imagine what a parent goes through with the death of their child, young or adult. And not knowing where your missing child is or what happened would be the worst of all nightmares, a daily nightmare.

Please know you have support here, with friends that understand, if you want to discuss it. Estee has already shown that and shared her loss.

back when I was a child and growing up going to high school ( 1980's) it was so rare or even unheard of the horror and nightmares parents suffer today. If there was something I could do to end a parents suffering knowing all too well what it does, I would actually go homeless if it ended it all together. We go on as people because we have to... but we never forget nor do we ever stop hurting.

I can feel your pain... those who have lost and those who have PM'd me to share the same feelings. when my sister lost her own son from brain cancer at the very young age of 2, I would sit at times and try to feel what she felt only to learn many years later, it wasn't remotely even possible.

Piper, I thank you from my heart because its one of those things said that sits really deep and those who have lost children know exactly what I am talking about. Its one of those things that are said... to where the person who has lost... cant let that go ignored. so yes, to you and the others who have told me how sorry you are.. its felt to me, in a very good and blessed way.

Which brings me down to a site like reality chatter that I find absolutely amazing is here. We can talk it all out, try and see what others didn't, voice opinions and for me, to mostly learn and help if I can help ... because like I said, there is nothing worse in this entire world then to bury a person who you shouldn't be burying. Parents are not suppose to bury their kids, kids are suppose to bury their parents.

With all of that said, thank you all for welcoming me.. with a warm welcome if I may add, and sharing in my pain to where I'd give anything in this world that no parent ever has to go through "ever" in all of their lives.

now..... back to Haleigh. the most frusterating case I have ever heard about. If Haleigh in fact is really deceased to where its what LE believes, then I hope to God those who know whats going on finally shows the way in regards to " proof".. so Haleigh can have the memorial she deserves and her family, can finally start the healing process because to them, one can not heal until they knew what had happened. Of course Ron and Crystal would not dare to take the steps to have a memorial and I certainly don't down them for that in the least. If this was my daughter, I too would need solid proof because if I didn't, I would feel like I'm giving up and no one gives up on their child. My heart breaks for those two where Haleigh is concerned. I may be reserved in how I feel far as either of their parenting goes but with that all aside, their daughter as we know is missing and no remains of any kind is there. Until that happens, it will always leave them feeling differently and I know if it were me, I'd feel the exact same way. I could NOT imagine being in lingo with my feelings with the not knowing after all this time. I'd have to chalk it up to the worst pain ever felt only because they don't know what happened. I pray for everyone involved, this case can finally have some closure.

My sympathies to you, butterfly, and estee for having lost a child! I can't imagine how empty that feeling could be. Long Hugs to you both...

Butterfly, try this on for size and see if you think it might fit with what you saw in Massachusetts. I just had this occur to me while I was fixing dinner.

A neighbor reported seeing Haleigh outside that evening.

And it was said Misty's grandmother was there that night for dinner or something.

What if she was taken while she was outside? And what if granny came by, not for dinner, but to try to find Haleigh (who they probably assumed wandered off at first) And Misty didn't want to tell Ron she 'lost' Haleigh so she made up the kidnap tale because they thought maybe one of their own had taken her?

ETA: That particular granny is the one who won't let anyone say Haleigh is dead until some bones are found...and she is the one who says Granny Flo is bonkers. What if this granny think Haleigh is fine in Mass?

Hi LottieM,

I think at this point, anything is possible and nothing can be ruled out. Haleigh's great grandma may know something but I also think it could be wanting proof.

Not long ago there was an earthquake in Haiti and a young girl, who was from my town was killed. This got national media attention to where the father to this girl pleaded to President Obama to please help him get his daughter. To the family, not only did they want their daughter's remains, they needed proof she was dead. To any parent, unless those remains are found, or actual proof someone had passed, the only thing left anyone has is hope. To let go of that hope makes a parent feel they let go and gave up on their loved one.

For the fact Law Enforcement has ruled out a stranger abduction to little Haleigh and claimed it was family or someone Haleigh knew, leaves family to believe who ever took her, maybe...just maybe they didn't kill her. That's where the hope comes in when it comes to Ron, Crystal, the grandparents and others who knew Haleigh best. What if... what if Haleighs family decided to opt for a memorial or burial to Haleigh without her remains and later down the road.. Haleigh is found? Its not like the actual person who took Haleigh and or killed Haleigh said " It was me and this is what happened" has come forward, that we know of.

When it was reported that the River was being searched that led us all to believe they might find Haleigh's remains, I personally didn't think anything was going to be found to be quite honest and that's because I fully believe my sighting at the Doctors office back in June of 09 was correct. The photo's I have that were taken in November of 09 fit Haleigh's description except for the face that isn't clear enough to make a positive Id. Even if it didn't turn out to be Haleigh who is in those photos, it doesn't mean what I saw at the office was false because I have no way of knowing if the two little girls are the same. They "appear" to be to me. How ironic however that the little girl in those photos, just happens to be around the age 5-6, who is white, and who has long hair. What were the chances I'd even see that much is what I am saying.

From this site, I've already had two people view them who both feel it looks like it could be. Art Harris called them "eerie" and wanted to pass them along to his LE sources. The photos were taken from my husbands camera and then downloaded into his computer that were transferred to my computer but since then, my husbands computer crashed and is now using another computer. Those photos he downloaded are now lost. My photos I still have and trust me, nothing can be done further to enhance them. I've had other requests to view the photos in hopes to enhance them better but its not possible to do. All has been done that can be done so there's no point in passing them along continuously. If I am wrong, these are photo's of someone else's family and I don't feel its right on many levels. I at least got what I wanted which was to hear they can't be ruled out to where one person said it looked just like Haleigh.

When I belonged to CSO, someone Ron knew contacted me. Without giving out any names, she agreed and said its a good possibility it could be her but like I said, she didn't want Ron or Teresa to see them only because she felt they might believe it was her and if it turned out not to be, it would crush them further. I felt the same thing after hearing it like she had said. This person I talked to by phone, had her own theory's what could have happened but what she thought and I thought were two different theory's.. after she heard my theory, she wasn't dismissing it nor was I dismissing hers. We both felt however, that Haleigh is still alive. This person had told me that someone else witnessed Haleigh in another state and yet back when I talked to her ( months ago) she was telling me this person has yet to be heard which was making her irate to realize that LE is not contacting those who call in or even bothering to follow up when a tip is received.

Far as I've heard, there's been over 4,000 tips and I appreciate the fact that all tips can't be looked into... but if that's the case, reports shouldn't come out as " all tips have been checked" because its not the case where I am concerned. FBI in my state couldn't even bother to call me back just to verify they received my fax and yet I've called numerous times and left numerous messages. far as the Saint Johns river being searched.... if they can recover deer bones... if Haleigh was disposed in that river I highly doubt not one bone out of over 300 bones to the human anatomy can not be recovered if she was dumped there.

I feel when it comes to my photos to who I think it might be, in order to get into that place one needs a search warrant and in order to get a search warrant, one has to have a Judge agree there's enough evidence to go forward. In all honesty, I don't see there's enough based on what I have. Although it looks like it could be Haleigh, it doesn't mean its her. Based on being observant for the many times I've sat and watched, one of two things is going on, Its either a) Someone is guarding that residence and being careful or 2) like someone else had pointed out and I have to agree, its drug activity going on. The residence also has security in every unit to where a person has to buzz in just to get let in which is why we sat on the other side and watched the sliding glass door. I still have hope for little Haleigh though and probably always will until it is said by either the person who killed her or remains are identified to belong to those of Haleigh Cummings.