Re: Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11

by Tamta Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:11 am

ThirdEye wrote:Some people are saying the ropes were tied with nautical knots that only Adam would know how to tie. These are nautical knots; they found none of these:

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php

These are basic knots, which is closer to what they were, however, they weren't tied like these:

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexbasics.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

You'll see on the website there are also fishing knots, scouting knots, rescue knots, decorative knots, etc. I mean there are a lot of knots out there, who knew? But 'precision' is fine with me.

NONE of Rebecca's were precision knots.

I think for a productive discourse on the technical analysis of the hanging, some suppositions, a few basic indisputable facts, should be decided upon.

I have studying to do tonight, but I will get back to you tomorrow evening with my ideas for a working list that I hope can accommodate all perspectives.

by Jessica2 Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:22 am

ThirdEye wrote:Some people are saying the ropes were tied with nautical knots that only Adam would know how to tie. These are nautical knots; they found none of these:

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php

These are basic knots, which is closer to what they were, however, they weren't tied like these:

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexbasics.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

You'll see on the website there are also fishing knots, scouting knots, rescue knots, decorative knots, etc. I mean there are a lot of knots out there, who knew? But 'precision' is fine with me.

NONE of Rebecca's were precision knots.

@Thirdeye- Thanks for the links:) In my opinion, the knot issue is niether here nor there in proving anything beyond a reasonable doubt. But here is what I think, they were not nautical knots, but for arguement sake lets say they were. JS and AS would know how to tie them, but an equal arguement can be made that Rebecca, being JS's partner would know them too. Now, considering they were not nautical knots, I have read that Jonah and Rebecca went rockclimbing...again, in my opinion, knots would be used. Lastly, it is my personal experience and my opinion, that people in the medical field, especially areas like opthalmology would have to be very stable with their hands, as alot of very delicate equipment is involved. Moreover, from everything described about her, she was a very adventurous and agile woman. Does any of this prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt? Absolutely not, its just my opinion about an issue presented:)

by HinkySD Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:41 am

ThirdEye wrote:Since the knots weren't "expert" or any type of boat knot, I guess that rules out Adam - and rules in Rebecca. You all are right, she probably wouldn't know how to tie knots...and the knots that the investigators found weren't any sort of "expert" knots, just tied until it worked.

Oh noooooo, no-no-no, Rebecca is NOT 'ruled in!'

Jonah's precious dweeb-in-his-pocket SDSO Lt. Larry Nesbit said that Rebecca herself could probably not duplicate the knots. Yet, the BINDINGS ON HER ANKLES MATCHED THE BINDINGS ON HER WRISTS!

So what in the name of John D. Spreckels do you call that? If SHE couldn't duplicate the knots, who duplicated them?

Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11 - Page 12 720319

Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11 - Page 12 720319

by HinkySD Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:09 am

Jessica2 wrote:
ThirdEye wrote:Some people are saying the ropes were tied with nautical knots that only Adam would know how to tie. These are nautical knots; they found none of these:

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php

These are basic knots, which is closer to what they were, however, they weren't tied like these:

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexbasics.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

You'll see on the website there are also fishing knots, scouting knots, rescue knots, decorative knots, etc. I mean there are a lot of knots out there, who knew? But 'precision' is fine with me.

NONE of Rebecca's were precision knots.

@Thirdeye- Thanks for the links:) In my opinion, the knot issue is niether here nor there in proving anything beyond a reasonable doubt. But here is what I think, they were not nautical knots, but for arguement sake lets say they were. JS and AS would know how to tie them, but an equal arguement can be made that Rebecca, being JS's partner would know them too. Now, considering they were not nautical knots, I have read that Jonah and Rebecca went rockclimbing...again, in my opinion, knots would be used. Lastly, it is my personal experience and my opinion, that people in the medical field, especially areas like opthalmology would have to be very stable with their hands, as alot of very delicate equipment is involved. Moreover, from everything described about her, she was a very adventurous and agile woman. Does any of this prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt? Absolutely not, its just my opinion about an issue presented:)

BBM

Can you please post where you read that Jonah and Rebecca went rockclimbing? (Thank you!)

Maybe I am just feeling a little loopy, but last time I checked you do not bind your ankles and wrists for rockclimbing. No matter how adventurous and agile! Just sayin'

by Jessica2 Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:12 am

@HinkySD- it was definitely in the earlier reports that I read that, and I don't know if they are still out there, but I will try to find it, and if not I will edit my comment:)

by HinkySD Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:40 am

~ snipped for too many quotes ~

ThirdEye wrote:

The knots were not nautical, and were not any type of knot in particular. Someone stated that Adam would tie perfect nautical knots automatically, so I guess that rules him out?

How did she learn these complex knots?
We don’t believe she did. These knots were not as complex as they have been made out to be, which is what we discovered when we attempted to recreate the knots on Rebecca’s wrists.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

IMO, Rebecca's feet were dirty from walking through the garden and garage bare-footed to get the rope and back again.

And, exactly WHAT would they compare the dirt to? Samples from all over Coronado? Just the balcony? The beach? You really must consider that we don't know that they DIDN'T test the dirt on her feet. They have only released the most basic information on the investigation because Max's accident/death was ruled an accident and Rebecca's death was ruled a suicide. Law Enforcement will not release everything in those types of cases. It took 6-15 investigators (working around the clock) seven weeks to close the case. My bet is they did all kinds of testing that we don't know about.

Q&BBM

Hi ThirdEye!

How do you know that 'It took 6-15 investigators (working around the clock) seven weeks to close the case.'? Are you privy to SDSO time records? How do you know this?

If anywhere near true, this would be fascinating! I WANT TO KNOW! Apparently it took Tsuida 41 days to even request Rebecca's phone records. That would be 984 hours just for her! WOWZA! It appears that this was the SAME time frame they were notifying family members of their 'findings' and preparing their gutless sweep-the-truth-under-the-rug-for-Jonah press conference for public consumption.

Please tell us where these records can be located.

Thank you!

by HinkySD Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:10 am

Bye-bye, Bonnie!

With 32% of the precints reporting at 11:00pm, D.A. Dumanis only has 14% of the votes in the race for Mayor.

I'd personally love to see her and Gore stamping out license plates for the next ten or so years.

Think of the salary and pension money the City would save. I say we put it in the City's fiscal solutions suggestion box!

by Jessica2 Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:38 am

@HinkySD- Respectfully, if you go to Facebook, and search Rebecca Zahau, the first result is her page, under photos, the thirteenth picture is actually her in rockclimbing gear.

by Freckles Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:41 am

HinkySD wrote:
Freckles wrote:We need to remember (me too)we are guests at this thread.
Wipe your feet and leave the dirt outside.

Did you say dirt? Ha ha! Don't get me going! Where's the dirt on Rebecca's torso and hips as she leaned over and did a full frontal flip over the balcony? I WANT TO KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Suicide Theory:
Well, because she wasn't tall enough to stand over the rail she would have had to have climbed over the rail.
There was one disturbance in the rail dust. It was not disturbed enough, however, for her side, her belly, or even her back to have disturbed the dust. More like someone rested a hand there? Now, could Rebecca have placed her own hand there? Well, it would have been impossible for her to have balanced on one hand and vaulted over the railing in a rush to her (slow) death. Why? Her feet and hands were both tied! Than would mean she would have had to have her hand on the rail BEHIND her back and then somehow gotten her legs (tied) up and over her head to somersault down in a death drop. But if that HAD happened, she MIGHT have been able to snap her neck. Which she did not.

This is so improbable as to reach ridiculous stupidity. But let's say Rebecca did somersault up and over the railig backward with hands and feet tied. What now? She is supposed to bounce FOUR times into the bottom of the balcony that has NO overhanging edge? Geez. It was a ski tow rope not a bungee rope. With the distance she feel, there would be no way for her to have bounced ONCE let along FOUR times.

Still would like to know why there were TWO knives. And TWO sets of gloves.

And IF Rebecca was SO intent upon suicide, why wipe her OWN prints off the knives?
Why would SHE need to wear gloves?
Never heard of a single person taking their own life wanting to hand their own DNA so dang much.

by Puzzler Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:46 am

The one dust disturbance on the balcony railing, IMO, looked like it was big enough for where a LEO put his hand on the railing to balance his/herself while leaning over to see what could be seen below...you know...maybe to go along with that one boot print on the balcony floor that SDSO admitted to being an LEO's boot print.

by HinkySD Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:53 am

Jessica2 wrote:@HinkySD- Respectfully, if you go to Facebook, and search Rebecca Zahau, the first result is her page, under photos, the thirteenth picture is actually her in rockclimbing gear.

Could you post that picture? (I have only seen her hiking Cowles Mountain which is not rock climbing.)

by HinkySD Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:01 am

Puzzler wrote:The one dust disturbance on the balcony railing, IMO, looked like it was big enough for where a LEO put his hand on the railing to balance his/herself while leaning over to see what could be seen below...you know...maybe to go along with that one boot print on the balcony floor that SDSO admitted to being an LEO's boot print.

The autopsy report notes a small swipe of dirt on her upper left thigh. It makes sense to me that her thigh hit the railing as she was being HOISTED over the balcony.

by Tamta Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:28 am

HinkySD wrote:
Jessica2 wrote:@HinkySD- Respectfully, if you go to Facebook, and search Rebecca Zahau, the first result is her page, under photos, the thirteenth picture is actually her in rockclimbing gear.

Could you post that picture? (I have only seen her hiking Cowles Mountain which is not rock climbing.)

There are a significant differences between the type rope that a climber would use and the rope that was used for the hanging.

by Jessica2 Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:57 am

HinkySD wrote:
Jessica2 wrote:@HinkySD- Respectfully, if you go to Facebook, and search Rebecca Zahau, the first result is her page, under photos, the thirteenth picture is actually her in rockclimbing gear.

Could you post that picture? (I have only seen her hiking Cowles Mountain which is not rock climbing.)

@HinkySD-Respectfully, Rockclimbing/Mountain hiking, there is clearly rope in the picture and I'm just saying she would not be completely clueless in tying knots.

by Jessica2 Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:06 am

Tamta wrote:
HinkySD wrote:
Jessica2 wrote:@HinkySD- Respectfully, if you go to Facebook, and search Rebecca Zahau, the first result is her page, under photos, the thirteenth picture is actually her in rockclimbing gear.

Could you post that picture? (I have only seen her hiking Cowles Mountain which is not rock climbing.)

There are a significant differences between the type rope that a climber would use and the rope that was used for the hanging.

@Tamta- Respectfully, I did not bring up the point to say the type of rope was the same. The same type of rope used in the death was found in the home(the home Rebecca lived in). They were not nautical knots but yet, Adam is suspected because people are saying he would know how to tie knots. I am saying that in my opinion, Rebecca was not clueless about things like that. Again, they were not nautical knots, and I do agree with what ThirdEye wrote.

by Tamta Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:29 am

Jessica2 wrote:
Tamta wrote:
HinkySD wrote:
Jessica2 wrote:@HinkySD- Respectfully, if you go to Facebook, and search Rebecca Zahau, the first result is her page, under photos, the thirteenth picture is actually her in rockclimbing gear.

Could you post that picture? (I have only seen her hiking Cowles Mountain which is not rock climbing.)

There are a significant differences between the type rope that a climber would use and the rope that was used for the hanging.

@Tamta- Respectfully, I did not bring up the point to say the type of rope was the same. The same type of rope used in the death was found in the home(the home Rebecca lived in). They were not nautical knots but yet, Adam is suspected because people are saying he would know how to tie knots. I am saying that in my opinion, Rebecca would have known how to tie knots as well. Again, they were not nautical knots, and I do agree with what ThirdEye wrote.

Jessica,

I know what you meant, sorry if i did not say that.

I think the discussion is in the rope as a whole, and so I do not see the ability to discount or prove these particular knots used, as clear and convincing factors as to who prepared and used this as a weapon.

IMO, we can not regard as indisputable fact that Rebecca could or could not tie those ropes. My inclination is to set that aside.

However, that does not mean that it could not be concluded that she did or did not by the conclusion of the discussion.

The way that my mind works, would be to begin from where the rope was retrieved.

by Jessica2 Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:47 am

Tamta wrote:
Jessica2 wrote:
Tamta wrote:
HinkySD wrote:
Jessica2 wrote:@HinkySD- Respectfully, if you go to Facebook, and search Rebecca Zahau, the first result is her page, under photos, the thirteenth picture is actually her in rockclimbing gear.

Could you post that picture? (I have only seen her hiking Cowles Mountain which is not rock climbing.)

There are a significant differences between the type rope that a climber would use and the rope that was used for the hanging.

@Tamta- Respectfully, I did not bring up the point to say the type of rope was the same. The same type of rope used in the death was found in the home(the home Rebecca lived in). They were not nautical knots but yet, Adam is suspected because people are saying he would know how to tie knots. I am saying that in my opinion, Rebecca would have known how to tie knots as well. Again, they were not nautical knots, and I do agree with what ThirdEye wrote.

Jessica,

I know what you meant, sorry if i did not say that.

I think the discussion is in the rope as a whole, and so I do not see the ability to discount or prove these particular knots used, as clear and convincing factors as to who prepared and used this as a weapon.

IMO, we can not regard as indisputable fact that Rebecca could or could not tie those ropes. My inclination is to set that aside.

However, that does not mean that it could not be concluded that she did or did not by the conclusion of the discussion.

The way that my mind works, would be to begin from where the rope was retrieved.

@Tamta- Thank you, I COMPLETELY agree with you.
I wrote that because of the things others wrote about Adam that he would know how to tie a "nautical" knot, (which was not the type of knot used in the hanging). I just don't think anyone can definitively say "because he knew how to tie knots it had to be him" (paraphrasing)
It was not you who wrote those types of statements.
Tamta, I look forward to your posts:)

by Lash Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:46 pm

Respectfully snipped-

Jessica2 wrote:
@Tamta- Respectfully, I did not bring up the point to say the type of rope was the same. The same type of rope used in the death was found in the home(the home Rebecca lived in). They were not nautical knots but yet, Adam is suspected because people are saying he would know how to tie knots. I am saying that in my opinion, Rebecca was not clueless about things like that. Again, they were not nautical knots, and I do agree with what ThirdEye wrote.

Jessica - BBM - The rope used in the hanging death, where did it originate? It was not established as fact the rope came from the garage, only speculation. SDSO and the homeowner Jonah do not know where the rope came from for certain, only a possibility.

NEMETH: She located a rope, possibly from the garage. We found a shelf in the garage that had boating items. The rope was a type you would use to tow a person on an inner tube, or something of that manner, behind a boat. There was a void on that shelf -- it was a full shelf until a certain point where there was a void about that wide that was empty. The homeowner wasn't sure if there was a rope in that location but it is possible that's where she found the rope.

SDSO P/C - https://viewer.zoho.com/download?genFile=hdtYj
SDSO Website - http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

by Freckles Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:15 pm

Lash-
IIRC, the SO did not provide a picture of the garage shelf, did they?
I wonder if they even took the picture where a rope was alleged to have once been placed.

by Eileen_Dover Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:04 pm

Lash wrote:Respectfully snipped-
Jessica2 wrote:
@Tamta- Respectfully, I did not bring up the point to say the type of rope was the same. The same type of rope used in the death was found in the home(the home Rebecca lived in). They were not nautical knots but yet, Adam is suspected because people are saying he would know how to tie knots. I am saying that in my opinion, Rebecca was not clueless about things like that. Again, they were not nautical knots, and I do agree with what ThirdEye wrote.

Jessica - BBM - The rope used in the hanging death, where did it originate? It was not established as fact the rope came from the garage, only speculation. SDSO and the homeowner Jonah do not know where the rope came from for certain, only a possibility.

NEMETH: She located a rope, possibly from the garage. We found a shelf in the garage that had boating items. The rope was a type you would use to tow a person on an inner tube, or something of that manner, behind a boat. There was a void on that shelf -- it was a full shelf until a certain point where there was a void about that wide that was empty. The homeowner wasn't sure if there was a rope in that location but it is possible that's where she found the rope.

SDSO P/C - https://viewer.zoho.com/download?genFile=hdtYj
SDSO Website - http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

An entire case based on assumptions. A bias investigation. All evidence cherry-picked to serve a predetermined conclusion.

To quote Victoria Pynchon, Contributor, Forbes:
"Our freedom to contract is as important as our freedom of speech, assembly and religion. Every time we negotiate an agreement, we place our trust in the legal system to enforce that agreement if our bargaining partner turns out to be a snake oil salesman or is simply incapable of doing what she promised she would do in exchange for the promises we’ve made to her.

If we can’t trust the justice system to be . . . just . . . then we burden our economic energy with self-enforcement a la the Sopranos. And you know how ugly – not to mention time-consuming – that can be."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenegotiates/2011/09/25/money-mystery-murder-in-spreckels-mansion-case/

by Tamta Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:07 pm

Lash wrote:Respectfully snipped-
Jessica2 wrote:
@Tamta- Respectfully, I did not bring up the point to say the type of rope was the same. The same type of rope used in the death was found in the home(the home Rebecca lived in). They were not nautical knots but yet, Adam is suspected because people are saying he would know how to tie knots. I am saying that in my opinion, Rebecca was not clueless about things like that. Again, they were not nautical knots, and I do agree with what ThirdEye wrote.

Jessica - BBM - The rope used in the hanging death, where did it originate? It was not established as fact the rope came from the garage, only speculation. SDSO and the homeowner Jonah do not know where the rope came from for certain, only a possibility.

NEMETH: She located a rope, possibly from the garage. We found a shelf in the garage that had boating items. The rope was a type you would use to tow a person on an inner tube, or something of that manner, behind a boat. There was a void on that shelf -- it was a full shelf until a certain point where there was a void about that wide that was empty. The homeowner wasn't sure if there was a rope in that location but it is possible that's where she found the rope.

SDSO P/C - https://viewer.zoho.com/download?genFile=hdtYj
SDSO Website - http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

I'm reviewing docs here for references to observance and collection of rope fibers at crime scene.

Can someone point me towards where I can find those?

TIA.

by Jessica2 Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:14 pm

Just a question I am throwing out there. I'm not sure if anyone knows or if it has been made public. Does anyone know what the main points were that were submitted in asking for a new investigation? Was there any explanation of why the request was denied?

by Eileen_Dover Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:35 pm

HinkySD wrote:Bye-bye, Bonnie!

With 32% of the precints reporting at 11:00pm, D.A. Dumanis only has 14% of the votes in the race for Mayor.

I'd personally love to see her and Gore stamping out license plates for the next ten or so years.

Think of the salary and pension money the City would save. I say we put it in the City's fiscal solutions suggestion box!

TY Hinky. San Diego has spoken!!
The buck stopped there. The suggestion that Dumanis and Sheriff Gore are joined at the hip is merely coincidental.
Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11 - Page 12 451255

Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11 - Page 12 451255

Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11 - Page 12 Stop-dumanis

by Eileen_Dover Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:50 pm

Jessica2 wrote:Just a question I am throwing out there. I'm not sure if anyone knows or if it has been made public. Does anyone know what the main points were that were submitted in asking for a new investigation? Was there any explanation of why the request was denied?

Jessica ~ If you are referring to the Zahau family's request for a new investigation, they are currently waiting for a response.
If you are referring to Jonah's request for a review and why the request was denied, perhaps the following will be enlightening (CA Constitution, article 5, section 13 can be found at the link below):
**************

Astute lawyer that he is, Jonah Shacknai's September 19, 2011 letter to CA AG Kamala Harris requesting a review of the suicide conclusion in Rebecca's death was machiavellian at best. He knows the law. We can safely presume he knew that the California constitution (article 5, section 13) would NOT apply in HIS case.

Quoting Michele Hagan, California trial lawyer, legal analyst, former prosecutor, defense attorney, Judge Pro Tem and trial skills expert:

[clipped] Just as I expected and explained in the yesterday’s posting, Section 13 of the CA Constitution, as cited by Jonah Shacknai does not apply. No conflict of interest. No request by the District Attorney to assist. No gross malfeasance (failure to enforce laws) alleged by investigative agency…

I have no doubt Rebecca’s family will not rest until this case is re-opened. After 20 years as a trial attorney and former domestic violence prosecutor, I suspect this case will be re-opened, at the very least, to address the many questions raised by Rebecca’s family. Until than, I doubt the public and media scrutiny will subside.
http://trialready.wordpress.com/tag/jonah-shacknai/

On July 21, 2011, 8 days after his girlfriend's death, Mr. Shacknai hired one of the most expensive and powerful public relations firms in the US.

On September 7, 2011, 53 days after her death, Mr. Shacknai retained the services of the Chairman of one of the most expensive legal firms worldwide. Said Chairman sent a cease and desist letter to the attorney representing Mr. Shacknai's girlfriend's family. (More on this to follow.)

It is a FACT that Mr. Shacknai is counseled by the best PR and the best attorneys money can buy. It is a FACT that Mr. Shacknai himself is well versed in legalese.

Based on these FACTS, Mr. Shacknai requested a review knowing full well his request would be refused based on CA Constitution, article 5, section 13. Thus, considering these facts, it is difficult to deny the objective was nothing more than an attempt to sway public opinion to his advantage.

by Jessica2 Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:17 pm

@Eileen_Dover- Thank you:) I was referring to the Zahau family request for a new investigation. I had read this-
"Anne Bremner:In the Rebecca Zahau case our requests to re-open the investigation have been turned down by the DA and SDSD. This was a stated condition precedent to our going to the AG for an independent investigation. We have now submitted a detailed request to the AG."

I was wondering if any information was made public as to the reasons why the request was turned down.

by Eileen_Dover Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:44 pm

Jessica2 wrote:@Eileen_Dover- Thank you:) I was referring to the Zahau family request for a new investigation. I had read this-
"Anne Bremner:In the Rebecca Zahau case our requests to re-open the investigation have been turned down by the DA and SDSD. This was a stated condition precedent to our going to the AG for an independent investigation. We have now submitted a detailed request to the AG."

I was wondering if any information was made public as to the reasons why the request was turned down.

Jessica ~ Don't recall the reasons ever stated publicly, but would presume, based on Sheriff Gore's continuously abject, arrogant refusal to consider previously discarded and ignored existing evidence, coupled with DA Dumanis' deafening silence, that passing the request by them first was merely a formality. Totally expected. No surprises there.

by Eileen_Dover Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:06 pm

As we know, on September 6, 2011, four days after the September 2 Press Conference, Jonah Shacknai retained the services of Mr. Webb, Chairman of an extremely prestigious, Chicago-based international law firm. In response to Zahau family attorney Anne Bremner's appearances on news programs and interviews with the media, Mr. Webb sent a "cease and desist" email to Ms. Bremner. The letter in its entirety can be read at the following link:
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15406681/shacknai-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-zahau-family-attorney

The letter begins with "I am an attorney for Jonah Shacknai, retained by him to address false public statements you have made…"

With all due respect, while Ms Bremner is being accused of making false statement, let's take a look at just two statements from the "cease and desist" email:

Sept 6
Mr. Webb
"It is ironic that Mr. Shacknai went through the entire law enforcement investigation, at all times cooperating completely with several police authorities, and never once considered retaining an attorney. It is only now, after authorities have announced the conclusions of their comprehensive investigations, that Mr. Shacknai finds it necessary to consult with me…

Sept 2
Sheriff Gore
They [Jonah and Dina] cooperated in every interview and I don't recall. I know that when we briefed them on the results of our investigation they had lawyers but I don't think they had lawyers when we initially did our interview.

**********

Sept 6
Mr. Webb
"Importantly, throughout the investigation, Mr. Shacknai was not advancing any particular outcome regarding Rebecca Zahau's cause of death, because he had absolutely no knowledge of what happened the night she died.

July 13
"He [Adam] cut her down, called 911 and sent a text to Jonah that Rebecca had hung herself. Jonah did not call back but called his ex-wife Dina. He did not go home after hearing that his longtime girlfriend was found dead."
http://news.yahoo.com/rebecca-zahau-case-dr-phil-discuss-autopsy-findings-221900308.html

Mary Zahau: "Jonah told my husband, on the day that Becky died, that she had killed herself."
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/jonah-shacknai-telling-people-girlfriend-rebecca-zahau-suicide-day-body-found

************

Once again, with all due respect, the only explanation for these discrepancies is that Mr. Webb must have been misinformed when he was briefed by his client Mr. Shacknai.

by Jessica2 Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:27 pm

@Eileen_Dover- Thank you for the info. I read that in the beginning, JS had asked Mary Zahau if she knew anyone who wanted to hurt Rebecca. I'm not so sure of radaronline information, but I believe she said this in one of her interviews

by vegret Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:09 pm

ThirdEye wrote:Some people are saying the ropes were tied with nautical knots that only Adam would know how to tie. These are nautical knots; they found none of these:

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php

These are basic knots, which is closer to what they were, however, they weren't tied like these:

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexbasics.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

You'll see on the website there are also fishing knots, scouting knots, rescue knots, decorative knots, etc. I mean there are a lot of knots out there, who knew? But 'precision' is fine with me.

NONE of Rebecca's were precision knots.

BBM

Those 'knots' were precise enough to bind/bound her and keep her binded/bounded.

by vegret Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:12 pm

@Jesicca2

Mountain climbing and rock climbing are not even in the same realm. Equipment used for each are vastly different.

Just saying.

by Jessica2 Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:13 am

@vegret-Respectfully, I have no idea which it was, if it was both, or it was niether, but there is clearly rope on the equipment in the picture. It's just impossible to say that only Adam knew how to tie knots in my opinion, because they were not nautical knots involved in the hanging. And to definitively say that Rebecca did not know how to tie knots is also impossible, in my opinion. It's just not a point to me (being able to tie a knot) that proves anything, because both of them I think might have known and either one or niether could have still been involved in the death, using that point.

by Puzzler Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:27 am

As far as I know, the public has not seen any pictures of the actual knots that were tied on RZ's ankles and wrists nor for the noose around the neck.

Without the pictures, we don't "know" for sure what kinds of knots were tied.

We have a video of rope-tying made public by SDSO; however, that is not a valid video, as the rope used in the video is not the same kind or size of rope used on RZ.

SDSO can't say that the video of the bed movement is not valid because of different this-or-that and then expect the public to take SDSO's video as valid when SDSO didn't use the same kind and size of rope in their video.

IMO, if SDSO can't even used the same kind and size of rope for their demonstration, they why should I ever have total faith that they have displayed correctly the way the knots were actually tied.

If, as SDSO comments that the tying was random, then "why" is the random tying the same on both the ankles and the feet?

Random is random.

by Jessica2 Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:41 am

@Puzzler- I agree with you. I just think that to me, the type of knot does not prove anything. No matter what type of knots they were, to me that does not point to or rule out anyone. There are many points you guys brought up that have made me question, and think about what may have happened that day. The type of knot is just not one of them.
You are right regarding that, it just seems like we are guessing without being presented with the whole picture. Unfortunately, in cases like these, all the evidence is not usually released to the public

by Puzzler Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:52 am

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15928565/news-8-reenacts-the-coronado-mansion-mystery

I just re-watched this video, specifically to look at the T-shirt tying around the neck.

We know that the blue T-shirt was wrapped around RZ's neck 3 times and the ends stuffed in her mouth.

From what I see in this video, the shirt is wrapped 2 times around that the sleeves above the ends were placed in the girl's mouth.

There's a difference.

by Puzzler Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:54 am

IMO, the knots make a difference "when" the SDSO reports the knots to be "random" and, yet, they're tied the same at the ankles and the wrists.

Random is random.

by Jessica2 Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:57 am

@Puzzler-I'm just saying that point (the type of knot) in my opinion does not unequivocally include or exclude anyone.

by ThirdEye Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:36 am

Hi all, don't have much time tonight, but here are some comments on some things put forth:

Definition of RANDOM : without definite aim, direction, rule, or method

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/random

The knots were not tied the same at the ankles and wrists...they were not perfect knots, as I have said, Rebecca just tied them until she got it to work. No one has seen these binding up close, like the investigators did and they say they were RANDOM.

Jonah did not know whether Rebecca was murdered or committed suicide for CERTAIN until the investigation was over. However, I believe he was pretty sure she hung HERSELF based on her actions and her texts and conversations with him that Tuesday. There is nothing sinister about that.

The SDSO and CPO would have NEVER allowed Jonah on the premises after she was discovered hanging. To suggest that he could have gone there is just plain wrong. They would have told him to STAY where he was.

And of course Jonah hired a good PR firm and lawyer. Do you think he's going to be home answering the 1000's of calls and inquiries from Media, and dealing with the false accusations of Anne Bremner and the Zahaus when he is MOURNING the DEATH of both Max AND Rebecca? No. He can afford to have someone deal with it for him. Good for him, IMO.

by Jessica2 Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:48 am

@ThirdEye- Good post. All true points and obviously well thought out.

by ThirdEye Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:48 am

Thank you, Jessica2. It just doesn't seem right to not defend someone who was so obviously cooperating with law enforcement and who suffered three tragic events, and two incredibly devastating losses in the span of five days. And there seems to be so much out there that just isn't true. The untruths and rumors don't help any of the families involved.

by ThirdEye Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:52 am

Puzzler wrote: We have a video of rope-tying made public by SDSO; however, that is not a valid video, as the rope used in the video is not the same kind or size of rope used on RZ.

(Snipped for brevity)

Puzzler, can you give us the link that says the ropes were not the same? Thanks in advance!

by Puzzler Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:23 am

At the link below is SDSO’s rope-tying video:
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html
You can see that the size of the rope is larger and it’s floppy and not covered with the plastic-like covering that was used on RZ. This is evident without having to read it in words.

The link below is another reenactment, not done by the SDSO.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15928565/news-8-reenacts-the-coronado-mansion-mystery
It is evident in this video, the more appropriate rope size is used - if not just like, then very similar to the rope used on RZ.

by vegret Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:52 am

ThirdEye wrote:

... I believe he was pretty sure she hung HERSELF based on her actions and her texts and conversations with him that Tuesday.

(Snipped for brevity)

BBM

And you know what her actions, texts and conversations with Jonah Shacknai were.

Very interesting. Care to share with the rest of us HOW you know?

by Lash Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:48 pm

Hi Lily - How have you been?

It wasn't necessary to call Jonah a monster. Passion runs deep in this case and the same rule should apply to every family member. Also, many who believe Rebecca was murdered have criticized Anne Bremner for how she has handled this case. Many people have verbally attacked Anne Bremner and called her vile names. I'm baffled.

To address your inquiry as to why they haven't come out of the silence and given them to you to silence you once and for all? Wow, "silence you once and for all". I don't believe in silencing freedom of speech. I personally believe the Zahau's and their attorney received a letter of intimidation from the sheriff's office when they received Rebecca's case file.

"The files that you will be receiving will not be released to the public, to the media, or anyone else, unless there later develops a law enforcement necessity to do so."

"This decision, however, may be re-evaluated if it becomes clear that parts of the investigation have been released to the media and to the public 'piecemeal', and that such a selective release of portions of the investigation has presented our investigation in a false light."

"Please understand that we have no desire to intrude on your client's right to speak freely about, or even criticize, the investigation completed by this office."

"…if portions of the investigation are selectively released to the media and to the public in a way that falsely represents the work performed by the Sheriff's Department, we will correct the false portrayal by opening the entire investigation for public scrutiny."

I agree with you that Jonah was/is not obligated to provide details to you or me regarding his communications with Rebecca that day. Where I disagree is that I believe Jonah had a moral obligation to share this information with Rebecca's family. It may have helped them understand. Maybe Jonah did share and we have not been told. Just as you postulated he obviously relayed his version in interviews with investigators. We do not know this either, only the alleged voicemail. I say alleged because it cannot be proven. Nowhere did SDSO indicate that Jonah had communications with Rebecca about being distraught over Max's injuries. Witnesses, not Jonah. If Rebecca was communicating distraught messages to Jonah that day and after the investigation was complete he believed Rebecca committed suicide, then Jonah had no reason to request a review by the AG. As Thirdeye stated Jonah believed it was a suicide. I have to agree with Eileen, the request to review Rebecca's death was machiavellian at best.

NEMETH: We interviewed a witness who reported she had contact with Rebecca in January. She observed Rebecca had lost weight, she seemed stressed, was not sleeping well, and was not exercising which was normal for her -- she was what could be described as a health nut. She exercised a lot.

She also engaged in conversations with the same witness regarding problems she was having at the time. This was supported by a journal we found on Rebecca's phone, which in writing expressed many of the same things that she had told this witness in January.

And last, we received information from witnesses that Rebecca was distraught over Max's injuries. Before going to conclusions on this, I would like to say that no one witnessed this event, we don't know exactly how this event occurred, we don't know in what order things were done. The only person who can answer that unfortunately is deceased. Based on the evidence we have, based on the information we received during the course of this investigation, this is the best conclusion we could come up with.

Letter- http://www.cbs8.com/story/16194812/sheriff-warns-zahau-attorney-case-file-may-be-opened

P/C- https://viewer.zoho.com/download?genFile=hdtYj

by Jessica2 Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:28 pm

But if these were the sentiments, why was JS allowed at Rebecca s funeral? Why the honor of sitting with her family at the funeral? In my opinion, because JS loved Rebecca and they all knew he was good to her.. In my opinion, if he was not a good man, that's not how it would have went down.

by ThirdEye Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:14 pm

Here is some new information on the "monster"...

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2012/06/06/20120606medici-ceo-shacknai-begins-non-profit-sons-name.html

by Tamta Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:25 pm

ThirdEye wrote:So HinkySD, you seem to think very highly of Rebecca, yet she was in love with a "monster" (in your words). How do you reconcile that in your head?

BTW, how would it fly if we were calling Rebecca or the Zahaus "monsters", "goons", and "POS"?

"Rebecca's little brother called him a MONSTER". Hinky SD

Third Eye,

This statement is attributed to Rebecca's brother, but it is not linked to verify, therefore is normally left to the reader to weigh as fact or hearsay.

It is not Hinky SD's direct statement about JS in this context.

by Freckles Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:25 pm

We went over all the details of this case as the info was being released.
Why are we now entertaining speculations and factoids when the facts were already discusses and hashed out?

We don't know why Jonah failed to return to the home. What we DO know is he ELECTED to not go back.
And he was NOT spending "all" his free time at the hospital either. At this venture, Max was on life support waiting to donate his organs. His parents were NOT sitting by his side loving their son. Nope.

He was NOT there for at least five hours--- five CRITICAL hours--- the night/morning Rebecca was hanged.

We know the first reports from Gore stated Rebecca died in a horrific manner--- and Gore did NOT initially state Rebecca killed herself. I fact, ALL his first comments state she had been murdered.

Gore changed his statements slowly. He kept modifying them and trying to become vague with them This is about the same time Jonah loads up on not just attorneys but the BEST of attorneys. Did he threaten to sue Gore? Only Gore and Jonah know WHY the reports started to change direction.

Rather than blaming someone who is not here to answer questions, why not ask those who are still alive and well? Maybe Dina or Nina or Adam or Jonah, or Nina's ADULT son could answers questions? Nope; they are buttoned up! Why is that now? Hmmmm. It will take a lawyer and a court case to unbutton those lips. Okay. That is what they want, I hope Rebecca's family sues for a wrongful death!

BTW, where are the witnesses who saw Jonah at the gym? And what was he wearing at the gym? Oh. That is right. It is suddenly no longer in business. How convenient is that ?

Little Max. As Deb pointed out, it is his birthday. An innocent child betrayed. No "fake" trip to the zoo for Max. Others will try to say things that involve Max but aren't true because Max isn't here to correct the story.
In death, Max is still being used by others.

Be still, child. God's arms are here to hold you.

by Tamta Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:42 pm

ThirdEye wrote:
HinkySD wrote:ThirdEye! Where did you get the information that Jonah would have needed permission to drive home? Hello!?!?! SDSO and CPO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS DECISION! Please stop making things up to protect this monster!!

(Snipped for brevity)

Tamata, this is the quote I was referencing.

I see.
If you were not aware if this, try this:

A quick way to refer to what another poster says is after hitting the quote button go back to their quote, highlight it with the bold, before you begin your comment type BBM(bold by me), then begin your post.

It saves time and makes it clear what your comments are referencing for posters following the conversation by reading through the embedded quotes.

by Lash Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:45 pm

Happy birthday Max! May you rest in peace sweet boy!

by HinkySD Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:48 pm

From Rebecca's little brother:

This year will be different no visit from Becky. So many years have we spent together, So many times have we laughed together, So many times have we cried together, Now you left me, although I needed you.

You were taken away from me by a murderer’s hand, Taken away from me by his hate and anger, Taken away from a family whose favorite you were, And still nobody has unmasked the face of evil.

Still, nobody has hunted down that hateful human, A human who made you look like an animal, A human who took your honor even after your death, A human who did the deeds of a demon.

Now, here I am, your loved, little boy, Your pride and joy caged in unworthiness, Your own flesh and blood, Your parents’ other child you so dearly loved.

The love you gave me I will never forget, Love so strong it could have calmed a storm, Love so strong it could have stilled newborn, Love so strong it became part of my life.

You were taken away from me and I am broken, My heart and soul are devastated, My mind could be a mad man’s, My spirit is filled with hate and fury.

But why try to live a life so rotten and cold? I shall break the chains of my darkened soul, I shall believe in your path of love that you lived, Your faith and joy I will try to recreate. All that you have done I will never forget, But before I begin my journey of love to the last breath.

I will say that I will have Sorrow ‘Till Death.

To my sister Becky, who died in July.

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