Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11 #2

Glaring error. I agree. I also feel Dina would not want this whole thing reopened to explore if she herself were involved in Rebecca's demise. I think Rebecca's story did not add up for Jonah and Dina... Both would have motive for revenge, but if Dina has something to do with it she would feel the price had already been paid and no reason to reopen this case. Which leaves one. I still think this whole thing revolves around what happened to Max. This is where it started and his death was no accident. JMO

[quote="GlaringError"]

SweetT wrote:

I may be wrong (in my best Columbo voice)... but I think that this is where the cryptic statements regarding the circumstances of Max's fall gets at the point SweetT made. That is that there were no defensive marks to the hands. Also consider that apparently Max's facial injuries (well, that's what I read on the board) were extensive. If he was thrown over the balcony already unconscious, then he would sustain more facial injury due to there being no reflexive hands out to break the fall movement by Max. The hyper-extension of the neck resulting therefrom.

I don't think Max was unconscious when he went over the rail or he would not have been able to grab the chandelier. I think there was possibly some serious pushing and shoving that ended with his fatal fall. If he was leaning over recklessly, which is doubtful, the dog could have jumped on him and knocked him over, but that is the only scenario I can imagine that does not involve another person.

I think more than 2 people know the truth. I think 5 people know the truth. 3 of those people know if they opened their mouths...their lives would be changed forever in a very punishing way. 4th person is most assuredly scared sh!tless. Hopefully she has the support and someone who may guide her in a smart and safe way. She's going to need it seeing how Dina is going after everyone. The fifth person is dead. Murdered IMO.

The cops power point and the latest scenario put forth by Nina's paid minions are equally ridiculous. Nina's media blitz has one purpose only. To pressure the powers that are... to re-open Max's case (as she should IMO)... heaven help Jonah's older children. IMO she is after Jonah's money.

However, I've come to realize if Dina receives no money in a settlement, she'd be just fine with that. She'd be totally happy devastating Rebecca's family while making Jonah squirm. And IF it comes out Max's half siblings had something to do with Max's death...oh well, so be it.

I was at one time feeling empathy for her. Once she started using her dead son as a means to an end...I realized she is this side of evil. Maybe she's insane. Knowing her history with Jonah and seeing her in action with her inflated ego and self involved demeanor all I know is I'm so damn happy she's not my neighbor.

The woman is on a mission. To destroy Jonah. And the hell with anyone who was a part of his life while he was with Rebecca.

Putting her child's dying, dead pics out here for all to see, making all the tv rounds is disgusting.

Any doubt I had with Dina murdering Rebecca is gone.

[quote="starlight"]

GlaringError wrote:


I don't think Max was unconscious when he went over the rail or he would not have been able to grab the chandelier. I think there was possibly some serious pushing and shoving that ended with his fatal fall. If he was leaning over recklessly, which is doubtful, the dog could have jumped on him and knocked him over, but that is the only scenario I can imagine that does not involve another person.

Starlight: I think that if Max went over the rail unconcious, that would mean the whole story is a lie, so you don't have to fit in grabbing the chandelier. Where are the "scientific" studies of how the chandelier broke?

vegret wrote:I think more than 2 people know the truth. I think 5 people know the truth. 3 of those people know if they opened their mouths...their lives would be changed forever in a very punishing way. 4th person is most assuredly scared sh!tless. Hopefully she has the support and someone who may guide her in a smart and safe way. She's going to need it seeing how Dina is going after everyone. The fifth person is dead. Murdered IMO.

The cops power point and the latest scenario put forth by Nina's paid minions are equally ridiculous. Nina's media blitz has one purpose only. To pressure the powers that are... to re-open Max's case (as she should IMO)... heaven help Jonah's older children. IMO she is after Jonah's money.

However, I've come to realize if Dina receives no money in a settlement, she'd be just fine with that. She'd be totally happy devastating Rebecca's family while making Jonah squirm. And IF it comes out Max's half siblings had something to do with Max's death...oh well, so be it.

I was at one time feeling empathy for her. Once she started using her dead son as a means to an end...I realized she is this side of evil. Maybe she's insane. Knowing her history with Jonah and seeing her in action with her inflated ego and self involved demeanor all I know is I'm so damn happy she's not my neighbor.

The woman is on a mission. To destroy Jonah. And the hell with anyone who was a part of his life while he was with Rebecca.

Putting her child's dying, dead pics out here for all to see, making all the tv rounds is disgusting.

Any doubt I had with Dina murdering Rebecca is gone.

Vegret: hi... I have to disagree with you. Dina had problems, as we all do... but to me... UNLESS there is some proof she is accomplice to a murder or reports of her having offensive and evil character, I think she is a grieving mother. Maybe a strange lady. Maybe a lady who would like a settlement. Perhaps a lady who would like to continue her association with a wealthy CEO who gave her a life of affluence and ease. Evil? Out to destroy Jonah? That almost sounds like the MO that Dina noted to the PV police: she stands her ground and then he plays the victim.

Also, I think Max knew, but Max is also dead.

I think Dina putting her dead child's pics out here for the world to see, to garner sympathy for her 'cause', is beyond offensive. As are her statements regarding RZ's family and Max being around them.

This side of evil...absolutely, IMO.

Yes, she is a grieving mom. I get that. However, it doesn't excuse her current behavior. I'd say to her...Dina, take your klonopin, take your valium. Drink your wine, jeepers creepers, don't be out to hurt others. Because in the end, Dina, it won't help you to feel sated. It'll only pile on the bitterness and hatred you're already overwhelmed with.

And absolutely she's out to destroy Jonah.

Yes. 6 people. 2 of them dead.

At one point, Anne Bremner told us there had been planking going on. If that's true, is it possible that Max could have sustained the marks to his back while planking?

I dont think planking would cause those marks like that. Also wasnt his scooter found on top of his shin? Like it was thrown over after him.

GlaringError wrote:

vegret wrote:I think more than 2 people know the truth. I think 5 people know the truth. 3 of those people know if they opened their mouths...their lives would be changed forever in a very punishing way. 4th person is most assuredly scared sh!tless. Hopefully she has the support and someone who may guide her in a smart and safe way. She's going to need it seeing how Dina is going after everyone. The fifth person is dead. Murdered IMO.

The cops power point and the latest scenario put forth by Nina's paid minions are equally ridiculous. Nina's media blitz has one purpose only. To pressure the powers that are... to re-open Max's case (as she should IMO)... heaven help Jonah's older children. IMO she is after Jonah's money.

However, I've come to realize if Dina receives no money in a settlement, she'd be just fine with that. She'd be totally happy devastating Rebecca's family while making Jonah squirm. And IF it comes out Max's half siblings had something to do with Max's death...oh well, so be it.

I was at one time feeling empathy for her. Once she started using her dead son as a means to an end...I realized she is this side of evil. Maybe she's insane. Knowing her history with Jonah and seeing her in action with her inflated ego and self involved demeanor all I know is I'm so damn happy she's not my neighbor.

The woman is on a mission. To destroy Jonah. And the hell with anyone who was a part of his life while he was with Rebecca.

Putting her child's dying, dead pics out here for all to see, making all the tv rounds is disgusting.

Any doubt I had with Dina murdering Rebecca is gone.

Vegret: hi... I have to disagree with you. Dina had problems, as we all do... but to me... UNLESS there is some proof she is accomplice to a murder or reports of her having offensive and evil character, I think she is a grieving mother. Maybe a strange lady. Maybe a lady who would like a settlement. Perhaps a lady who would like to continue her association with a wealthy CEO who gave her a life of affluence and ease. Evil? Out to destroy Jonah? That almost sounds like the MO that Dina noted to the PV police: she stands her ground and then he plays the victim.

Also, I think Max knew, but Max is also dead.

As we have seen released to the public, police documentation illustrates behavior that is consistent with a proclivity to participate in high conflict situations which criminology theory shows is a key component for finding oneself in a situation where one may commit homicide.

I am sure these were not the only incidents but simply the one's that were reported, as is typical with domestic violence.

She is on public record being alleged to strangle her husband at the time.
SHe admitted to willfully putting her hands being around his neck.

On a behavioral level, that is concerning.

SweetT wrote:I dont think planking would cause those marks like that. Also wasnt his scooter found on top of his shin? Like it was thrown over after him.

That scooter is heavier than you think and even if it wasn't heavy, it would leave marks on Max and neither Dr. Lucas nor Dina's Dr. Melinek noted any marks related to that scooter. It must have been on the first floor and fell over when Max was moved - maybe to give him CPR.

I was thinking about the planking and what if Max was laying on something to try to plank, but lost balance and in doing so scraped his back in getting off where ever it was he was laying.

vegret wrote:I think Dina putting her dead child's pics out here for the world to see, to garner sympathy for her 'cause', is beyond offensive. As are her statements regarding RZ's family and Max being around them.

This side of evil...absolutely, IMO.

Yes, she is a grieving mom. I get that. However, it doesn't excuse her current behavior. I'd say to her...Dina, take your klonopin, take your valium. Drink your wine, jeepers creepers, don't be out to hurt others. Because in the end, Dina, it won't help you to feel sated. It'll only pile on the bitterness and hatred you're already overwhelmed with.

And absolutely she's out to destroy Jonah.

Yes. 6 people. 2 of them dead.

The CPD and SDSO gave everyone with motive and opportunity in the death of Rebecca Zahau a free pass.

Dina may come to wish she had left well enough alone.

Could posters please make sure the quotes correctly identify which poster actually said what? The last two attributes to e I did NOT post. You have time still to edit to correct your postings. Thank you.

InParadise: I am intrigued by the possibilities JS' children may have been present when Max feel. Do we know when they may have left and to what state they went to? How did they get to the airport? Have to speculate Rebecca may have taken them when she took her little sister.

Freckles wrote:Could posters please make sure the quotes correctly identify which poster actually said what? The last two attributes to e I did NOT post. You have time still to edit to correct your postings. Thank you.

InParadise: I am intrigued by the possibilities JS' children may have been present when Max feel. Do we know when they may have left and to what state they went to? How did they get to the airport? Have to speculate Rebecca may have taken them when she took her little sister.

Freckles,

Ted Greenberg was one of the last people to see Rebecca Nalepa alive.

She had called his kennel, Camp Diggity Dogs, to pick up Ocean, the family’s 14-month-old Weimaraner the afternoon following the Monday accident that left her boyfriend's son with serious injuries.

“She asked us to come get the dog, because she wanted to get to the hospital to see her child,” Greenberg said. “I understand it’s (her boyfriend's) son, but I guess she thought of him as hers.”

“She called about 4:40 pm,” he said. “She told me about the accident and said that her daughter was also injured.”

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/local-kennel-owner-saw-spreckels-victim-less-than-24-hours-before-her-death

Freckles wrote:Could posters please make sure the quotes correctly identify which poster actually said what? The last two attributes to e I did NOT post. You have time still to edit to correct your postings. Thank you.

InParadise: I am intrigued by the possibilities JS' children may have been present when Max feel. Do we know when they may have left and to what state they went to? How did they get to the airport? Have to speculate Rebecca may have taken them when she took her little sister.

The kids flew to SC......their mother was already there. They had already spent a couple of weeks there in June. Since there has been no mention of exactly when Jonah arrived at Rady, it is possible that when Max was transported from Coronado Hospital to Rady, JS returned to Spreckels to pick up his other children, take them to the airport, and once they were in the air (as is required for unaccompanied minors), he then went to Rady. I believe that Rebecca took her sister to an urgent care facility in Imperial Beach, which is in the opposite direction of the airport.

Inparadise, do you suppose GS and ES flew private?

Inparadise wrote:

Freckles wrote:Could posters please make sure the quotes correctly identify which poster actually said what? The last two attributes to e I did NOT post. You have time still to edit to correct your postings. Thank you.

InParadise: I am intrigued by the possibilities JS' children may have been present when Max feel. Do we know when they may have left and to what state they went to? How did they get to the airport? Have to speculate Rebecca may have taken them when she took her little sister.

The kids flew to SC......their mother was already there. They had already spent a couple of weeks there in June. Since there has been no mention of exactly when Jonah arrived at Rady, it is possible that when Max was transported from Coronado Hospital to Rady, JS returned to Spreckels to pick up his other children, take them to the airport, and once they were in the air (as is required for unaccompanied minors), he then went to Rady. I believe that Rebecca took her sister to an urgent care facility in Imperial Beach, which is in the opposite direction of the airport.

InParadise,

BBM.
CBM.

“She called about 4:40 pm,” he said. “She told me about the accident and said that her daughter was also injured.”

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/local-kennel-owner-saw-spreckels-victim-less-than-24-hours-before-her-death

____________________________________________________

Is it possible they left on a private jet?

Is it possible that Gabby was injured also?

Are these two things that I have highlighted basing elsewhere speculation that Xena is RZs daughter?

Inparadise wrote:The kids flew to SC......their mother was already there. They had already spent a couple of weeks there in June. Since there has been no mention of exactly when Jonah arrived at Rady, it is possible that when Max was transported from Coronado Hospital to Rady, JS returned to Spreckels to pick up his other children, take them to the airport, and once they were in the air (as is required for unaccompanied minors), he then went to Rady. I believe that Rebecca took her sister to an urgent care facility in Imperial Beach, which is in the opposite direction of the airport.

Snip- Also listed on Zahau's cell phone logs was an incoming call at 7:09 p.m. on July 12 from Coronado Bay Urgent Care in Imperial Beach.

Rebecca's 13-year-old sister had received stitches in her leg at the urgent care center on Monday, July 11 after cutting herself on glass. The center was calling to confirm a follow-up appointment for Wednesday.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15485069/records-reveal-final-cell-phone-calls-to-rebecca-zahau

Tamta,
No, they did not leave on a private jet......I checked for departures from the airports for that day, and there were no records. They did depart from San Diego Airport...

Inparadise wrote:Tamta,
No, they did not leave on a private jet......I checked for departures from the airports for that day, and there were no records. They did depart from San Diego Airport...

Thank you.

SweetT wrote:I dont think planking would cause those marks like that. Also wasnt his scooter found on top of his shin? Like it was thrown over after him.

There were no marks or bruising on Max's legs to indicate the scooter had landed on his legs. None.

I am curious as to why Rebecca did not drive her sister to the hospital. She had her car unless JS had borrowed it? Do we know if Rebecca ever drove JS' car or just her own car?

I am wondering if maybe JS took Rebecca's care to drive his children to the airport?

Freckles wrote:I am curious as to why Rebecca did not drive her sister to the hospital. She had her car unless JS had borrowed it? Do we know if Rebecca ever drove JS' car or just her own car?

I am wondering if maybe JS took Rebecca's care to drive his children to the airport?

I thought she took Xena to urgent care herself in Imperial Beach?

Tamta wrote:

Freckles wrote:I am curious as to why Rebecca did not drive her sister to the hospital. She had her car unless JS had borrowed it? Do we know if Rebecca ever drove JS' car or just her own car?

I am wondering if maybe JS took Rebecca's care to drive his children to the airport?

I thought she took Xena to urgent care herself in Imperial Beach?

IIRC, CPD took them. That is when a female officer noted Rebecca's comments re "DS is going to kill me."

Freckles wrote:

Tamta wrote:

I thought she took Xena to urgent care herself in Imperial Beach?

IIRC, CPD took them. That is when a female officer noted Rebecca's comments re "DS is going to kill me."

got it.

http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/06/Dr.Bove_Report.pdf

pp. 20-21

Based on a review of photographs, the abrasions and contusions to Maxfield Shacknai’s back are primarily midline and left of midline. Inspection of the shirt that he was wearing on the date of the incident revealed several areas of light colored material transferred to the inside of the back of the shirt. The areas of transfer extended along the midline of the shirt from approximately 7 inches below the collar to approximately 1 foot 4 inches below the collar. There was an additional transfer area located slightly to the right (when viewing the inside of
the shirt) extending from approximately 10 to approximately 11 inches below the collar.

The lateral location and vertical extent of these areas of transfer are consistent with the soft tissue injuries to his back. There was also an area of possible material transfer on the inside of the shirt overlying the right clavicle consistent with an abrasion noted to his right clavicle area. There was no indication that the transfer material was observed by Dr. Gomez and no indication that any testing was done by the police or others to determine its substance or origin. In his report, Dr. Gomez did not specify a mechanism for the abrasion over Maxfield Shacknai’s right clavicle. Dr. Gomez stated that the bruising to Maxfield Shacknai’s back was caused by impact with a flat surface which resulted in medial movement of the skin followed by sliding contact with the surface which resulted in the abrasions on his back. The bruising injuries do not require gross medial movement of his skin, nor do they require the bruised tissues to overlie the spinous processes. Impact without such medial skin movement can also result in bruising similar to that observed on Maxfield Shacknai’s back. Dr. Gomez identified the flat portion of the railing leading from the landing to the first floor as the surface responsible for these bruising injuries. These injuries do not require contact with a flat surface. Contact by and sliding of Maxfield Shacknai’s back along any protruding edge could have also produced his back injuries. There are multiple possible causes of these injuries and multiple locations at which these injuries could have been sustained.
Additionally, the abrasions and bruising to his back could have been sustained at different times due to contact with different structures. According to Dr. Melinek, these injuries were minor and did not extend into the subcutaneous tissue. Contact with the railing descending from the landing to the first floor would have occurred after a fall over a vertical distance of approximately 7 feet according to Dr. Gomez’s report. Additionally, according the diagram provided in Dr. Gomez’s report, this contact between the railing and Maxfield Shacknai’s back redirected his horizontal motion. Such a redirecting impact to Maxfield Shacknai’s back in this scenario would have required substantial force to arrest and reverse the horizontal component of his motion. The superficial back injuries sustained by Maxfield Shacknai are not consistent with the scenario proposed by Dr. Gomez, and are consistent with a less forceful contact.

-Where is the shirt that Max was wearing?
-Where there footprints on this shirt I wonder?
-Where shoes worn by the kids taken into evidence? (No!)
-Seems like info that would want to be left out to assert falling by his own agency, directly or indirectly, over the banister, no?

I just took a quick look at planking on the web.
I saw many photos of individuals laying on floor surfaces with objects placed on top of them and people standing on top of them as well.

Is it not possible that Max's back injuries could have been sustained by a planking maneuver attempted on the floor whereby he was the plank and another child was standing on top of him?

10"-11".
What shoe size would that be?
Or perhaps it could have been a smaller foot impacting the back more than one time in more than one place.

I just got to say I, in no way, think anyone..including his older siblings intentionly meant to cause Max to die. Planking is not something a 6 year old would just do of his own accord but it is entirely possible he could of been attempting to do something he had witnessed an older sibling do.Throw in a rambunctious pup with no telling what kind of planking set up and a disaster could of happened.Any strange marks on his body not consistant with his fall could of happened that morning prior to it,as in an older sibling playing more roughly with him than they should have or a fight which almost all siblings partake in at some point or another.

"Photographs taken at the scene also depict two soccer balls on the first floor and a wooden ruler"

The above quote was extracted from the link Tamta posted above and is the first I have read of these balls and ruler.Is it too far of a stretch for the experts to imagine a 6 yr old recreating a planking situation out of these three items AND his scooter? They excluded the possibilty that his center of gravity wouldnt be high enough to go over the rail if he was on the scooter or standing on a ball..so why not create a scenerio with all 4?

A woman's size 5 1/2 shoe is about 10 to 10 1/2", depending upon the type of shoe (running vs. loafer/sandal).

Jonah's quiet acceptance of all the details and the closing of both cases is so strange to me. More than anything else, that doesn't make sense to me.

Not sure if this has been shared yet. I hope this is ok to post...I find Dr. Godwin's analysis very interesting.

http://www.drmauricegodwin.com/rebeccazahaucase.html

Tried to post three times so I hope I didn't screw this up...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/09/18/what-really-happened-in-the-coronado-mansion.html

IMO, this article was what started a bit of misinformation. IIRC, wasn't the author a friend of JS?? Or someone who he had a business relationship with? Someone correct me if I'm mistaken. Just remember someone somewhere stating that JS had some sort of connection to MS. Kron. This is just my opinion...

Inparadise wrote:A woman's size 5 1/2 shoe is about 10 to 10 1/2", depending upon the type of shoe (running vs. loafer/sandal).

Thank you.

Tamta wrote:

Inparadise wrote:A woman's size 5 1/2 shoe is about 10 to 10 1/2", depending upon the type of shoe (running vs. loafer/sandal).

Thank you.

You are welcome.......I measured all of my shoes.......all different kinds. Now, if we are talking about the length of a bare foot, that is different.

Inparadise wrote:

Tamta wrote:


Thank you.

You are welcome.......I measured all of my shoes.......all different kinds. Now, if we are talking about the length of a bare foot, that is different.

No shoes.
Can't even remember what that size looks like!

Inparadise wrote:

Tamta wrote:


Thank you.

You are welcome.......I measured all of my shoes.......all different kinds. Now, if we are talking about the length of a bare foot, that is different.

What is the width of those together side by side?

Tamta wrote:

Inparadise wrote:
You are welcome.......I measured all of my shoes.......all different kinds. Now, if we are talking about the length of a bare foot, that is different.

What is the width of those together side by side?

Each shoe is 3 1/2" to 4" on average........medium width.

starlight wrote:Jonah's quiet acceptance of all the details and the closing of both cases is so strange to me. More than anything else, that doesn't make sense to me.

It makes sense if one considers a scenario where Max and older siblings were fooling around and something happened that resulted in his unintended, devastating injury.

It makes sense if one considers a scenario where two women, irate, out of control and insane with anger, descended upon Rebecca to get answers, went too far and as a result...Rebecca ends up dead. And not knowing what, if Rebecca told them, he had someone stage a scene.

Jonah, I think, just wanted/wants this to go away. He knows what happened.

What doesn't make sense is LE and what they did, or NOT DO.

What doesn't make sense is leaving Rebecca for 13 hours, for the whole world to see, on the ground bound and gagged.

vegret-
I think you are correct. Either kids horsing around and an accident ensues where JS wants to protect his own children; or, JS lost his temper and things went bad.Again, JS wants to protect his own self from legal actions. (This is one nasty person, IMO.) So JS keeps Rebecca in his confidence and probably tells her to not talk, refer everyone to him. She does this to protect him and her relationship with him. Then, JS quietly tells DS and others he thinks there just might be a possibility maybe Rebecca was somehow at fault. Off course, Rebecca does not know this is being pinned on her.

Now, the scheming takes places among three to "get rid" of the person who they believe directly or indirectly had a role in Max's injuries and his death. JS may not have believed the end results but at long as it was no skin off his nose, no LE snooping around him or his children, it was the perfect cover-up.

JS could not take another PD report on his own physical violence. He might face a trial, he might do time, he might have his true love, his company, negatively impacted. Besides, he would have something on them so they would not spill the beans on the truth re Max; he could implicate them with the death of Rebecca.

JMO as always.

Again, I ask:
Where did they break bread the last evening?
What time was it?
Was Howard with them?
Where is the credit card rcpt ?The waiters who served them? etc. IIRC, there was NO food in Rebecca's stomach.

When did AS leave?

vegret wrote:

starlight wrote:Jonah's quiet acceptance of all the details and the closing of both cases is so strange to me. More than anything else, that doesn't make sense to me.

It makes sense if one considers a scenario where Max and older siblings were fooling around and something happened that resulted in his unintended, devastating injury.

It makes sense if one considers a scenario where two women, irate, out of control and insane with anger, descended upon Rebecca to get answers, went too far and as a result...Rebecca ends up dead. And not knowing what, if Rebecca told them, he had someone stage a scene.

Jonah, I think, just wanted/wants this to go away. He knows what happened.

What doesn't make sense is LE and what they did, or NOT DO.

What doesn't make sense is leaving Rebecca for 13 hours, for the whole world to see, on the ground bound and gagged.

The actions of LE make sense IF there was a big donation to some campaign that translated to influence on a local level.

Leaving Rebecca for 13 hours makes sense IF Jonah was finished with her and wanted her out of his life.

vegret wrote:

starlight wrote:Jonah's quiet acceptance of all the details and the closing of both cases is so strange to me. More than anything else, that doesn't make sense to me.

It makes sense if one considers a scenario where Max and older siblings were fooling around and something happened that resulted in his unintended, devastating injury.

It makes sense if one considers a scenario where two women, irate, out of control and insane with anger, descended upon Rebecca to get answers, went too far and as a result...Rebecca ends up dead. And not knowing what, if Rebecca told them, he had someone stage a scene.

Jonah, I think, just wanted/wants this to go away. He knows what happened.

What doesn't make sense is LE and what they did, or NOT DO.

What doesn't make sense is leaving Rebecca for 13 hours, for the whole world to see, on the ground bound and gagged.

BBM.

I think it was IMMEDIATELY and inconclusively obvious to LE that this was an accident.
I think the response and conditions of ALL individuals that LE saw and spoke to who were related to the incident CLEARLY attested to that. Physical evidence first observed, not necessarily cited in subsequent official reports, probably also supported that conclusion.

I do not discount that even LE was told almost, or concluded themselves fairly early, a pretty exact and truthful version of what really went down.

LE may have exercised judgement to officially describe this accident as having occurred slightly differently to protect the responsible adults from scrutiny.

This happens quite frequently.
I do not believe the entire motive to cast Max's death in this fashion was to take a motive for RZs death off of the table.

Inparadise wrote:

Tamta wrote:

What is the width of those together side by side?

Each shoe is 3 1/2" to 4" on average........medium width.

Okay.
Sounds about right.
TY!!

Here Are The Latest Twists In The Bizarre Deaths At A Pharma Tycoon's Mansion

More than a year after a pair of mysterious deaths at the home of pharma CEO Jonah Shacknai, there's a new twist in the case.

Shacknai's 6-year-old son Max died in July 2011 after taking a tumble inside his Coronado, Calif. summer home.

Two days later, Shacknai's 32-year-old girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau, who was watching Max when he apparently fell, was found dead herself.

Zahau was found hanging naked, with her feet and legs bound. Her death was ruled a suicide.

Shacknai's ex-wife Dina now claims Max's fall was no accident and Zahau was somehow responsible, NBC San Diego reported this week.

In light of new developments, Business Insider decided to take a look at everything we know about the scandal that plagued Medicis Pharmaceutical CEO Jonah Shacknai, who's not a suspect in the case.


Read more:
http://www.businessinsider.com/jonah-shacknei-mansion-murders-2012-8?op=1

Since Max did not die when he fell, when did the police do their questioning of all involved and present? I would assume it was after all the evidence was cleared away and days after the event and Rebecca's death.

starlight wrote:Since Max did not die when he fell, when did the police do their questioning of all involved and present? I would assume it was after all the evidence was cleared away and days after the event and Rebecca's death.

Or maybe the questioning started before Rebecca's death. "Someone" may mave realized that it would be in their best interest for Rebecca to not divulge what may have really happened with regards to Max's fall. JMO

But there is still one person who would know who was in the house at the time of the accident---Rebecca's sister.

starlight wrote:Since Max did not die when he fell, when did the police do their questioning of all involved and present? I would assume it was after all the evidence was cleared away and days after the event and Rebecca's death.

At the time of Max's fall I would imagine that CPD was following standard procedures for Emergency Response.

If they observed immediate signs of a clear cut household accident, why would they proceed with evidence gathering for criminal investigation?
Plus as you say, Max was still alive.
At that point first response officers were looking at a standard report.

This to me speaks to how clearly 'unsuspucious' the immediate circumstances around Max's accident were.

I'm willing to give CPD the benefit of the doubt here.

Because of the temporal proximity of Rebecca's death and the apparent question(despite later retraction) of manner of death, SDSO appeared to
Have initiated investigating foul play and subsequent evidence gathering, and thus were exploring the nexus of the two incidents and extended evidence gathering for Max's fall.

If RZ had not have been killed, would any of those items been collected and preserved?

I think the contemporaneous nature of these incidents, and other information that the public may never know, and the fact that theses incidents were publicly addressed together by the SDSo and the media, plus our hindsight, has cast LE response in a different light in regard to immediate handling of Max's fall.

I'm also not entirely convinced that the way that Max's accident is publicly recorded would differ with or without Rebecca's having been killed.

I wasn't suggesting a criminal investigation SHOULD have been started at the time of Max's fall. My point is that when questions were being asked about the event, everyone involved had plenty of time to construct an explanation and physical evidence would be for the most part non-existent. There would be no way to determine how Max fell, and I am sure we will never know unless an eyewitness comes forward.

If an ambulance came for Max, would the police also respond? I don't think they do. Why would there be any report?

Also, Dina said she came to know that CPS was contacted. She did not initiate that. I believe the hospital did that before Rebecca died. Is that standard operating procedure? It might be. If not, a professional already suspected that Max was assaulted.

Does anyone remember what day it was that Dr. Peterson told the family that he thought Max could've been suffocated? Maybe CPS was contacted then or maybe even before. I recall that a detective had been in touch with Rebecca, maybe in person, IDK, but her phone records show that a detective was at least contacting her via phone. Not sure if these will help, but I did save these awhile back.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/d33Ze

Twinkie wrote:Does anyone remember what day it was that Dr. Peterson told the family that he thought Max could've been suffocated? Maybe CPS was contacted then or maybe even before. I recall that a detective had been in touch with Rebecca, maybe in person, IDK, but her phone records show that a detective was at least contacting her via phone. Not sure if these will help, but I did save these awhile back.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/d33Ze

CPS was contacted by the doctor, but I have to search for the link later!