Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11 #2

starlight wrote:I wasn't suggesting a criminal investigation SHOULD have been started at the time of Max's fall. My point is that when questions were being asked about the event, everyone involved had plenty of time to construct an explanation and physical evidence would be for the most part non-existent. There would be no way to determine how Max fell, and I am sure we will never know unless an eyewitness comes forward.

If an ambulance came for Max, would the police also respond? I don't think they do. Why would there be any report?

Also, Dina said she came to know that CPS was contacted. She did not initiate that. I believe the hospital did that before Rebecca died. Is that standard operating procedure? It might be. If not, a professional already suspected that Max was assaulted.

Starlight,

BBM.

I was making general comments not specifically addressed to you.
I also do not think that we are disagreeing.

I bet almost all of the physical evidence was still on site.
The key to truth about Max's accident IMO lies in the human factor: the humans who saw and participated with the environment just prior and during the incident-
JS very cleverly established NO WITNESSES.
I do not think the objects could clearly speak for themselves.

CPS was contacted by Max's doctor, not LE.

As for LE responding too, my son had a choking incident at a restaurant and two LEO came after the paramedics arrived.

I would think that an emergency response to an accident requires LEO to present themselves.
There may be suspicious circumstances at the scene that need to be assessed immediately.

...A report by the San Diego County medical examiner's office ruled that the manner of his death was accidental. But Dina Shacknai said doctors treating Max were immediately suspicious of his injuries and contacted Child Protective Services, which she said launched a probe and then dropped it once the medical examiner ruled the death an accident.

Read more:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/07/death-pharmaceutical-executive-son-likely-homicide-independent-report-finds/


...Det. Thomas Atkins of the Coronado Police Department wrote, "... Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai. Dr. Peterson expressed concerns made based on the -- the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai’s fall."

Read more:
http://www.10news.com/news/29268087/detail.html

Does anyone know when JS or DS were made aware of Dr. P's suspicions? I'll keep looking to see if I can find anything.

Yes, you are correct about LE showing up when there is an emergency. Recently a friend fell at the tennis courts, and the CPD showed up in addition to EMS.

Twinkie wrote:...A report by the San Diego County medical examiner's office ruled that the manner of his death was accidental. But Dina Shacknai said doctors treating Max were immediately suspicious of his injuries and contacted Child Protective Services, which she said launched a probe and then dropped it once the medical examiner ruled the death an accident.

Read more:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/07/death-pharmaceutical-executive-son-likely-homicide-independent-report-finds/


...Det. Thomas Atkins of the Coronado Police Department wrote, "... Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai. Dr. Peterson expressed concerns made based on the -- the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai’s fall."

Read more:
http://www.10news.com/news/29268087/detail.html

Does anyone know when JS or DS were made aware of Dr. P's suspicions? I'll keep looking to see if I can find anything.

______________________________________________

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

Dr. Peterson expressed concerns about suffocation.


We hear second hand in Nina's CBS interview about that information being shared, Thursday after Rebecca had died according to Nina, but I am unaware of anything else or the direct language used by the doctor to express those concerns.

Inparadise wrote:Yes, you are correct about LE showing up when there is an emergency. Recently a friend fell at the tennis courts, and the CPD showed up in addition to EMS.

In NYC even the FD comes.

Tamta wrote:

Inparadise wrote:Yes, you are correct about LE showing up when there is an emergency. Recently a friend fell at the tennis courts, and the CPD showed up in addition to EMS.

In NYC even the FD comes.

They were there also! Most of the CFD are EMTs........they will only hire EMTs. Even though the tennis courts are right next door to the fire house, they brought the big fire truck.

Tamta wrote:

Twinkie wrote:...A report by the San Diego County medical examiner's office ruled that the manner of his death was accidental. But Dina Shacknai said doctors treating Max were immediately suspicious of his injuries and contacted Child Protective Services, which she said launched a probe and then dropped it once the medical examiner ruled the death an accident.

Read more:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/07/death-pharmaceutical-executive-son-likely-homicide-independent-report-finds/


...Det. Thomas Atkins of the Coronado Police Department wrote, "... Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai. Dr. Peterson expressed concerns made based on the -- the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai’s fall."

Read more:
http://www.10news.com/news/29268087/detail.html

Does anyone know when JS or DS were made aware of Dr. P's suspicions? I'll keep looking to see if I can find anything.

______________________________________________

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

Dr. Peterson expressed concerns about suffocation.


We hear second hand in Nina's CBS interview about that information being shared, Thursday after Rebecca had died according to Nina, but I am unaware of anything else or the direct language used by the doctor to express those concerns.

Oh yes, NR's interview...if anyone has an hour+ to listen, here it is.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths

What gets me is that this woman, who ADMITS to being at JS's house the very night Rebecca died a violent and very suspicious death, was never even given a LDT! There was one scheduled, IIRC, but she cancelled because she was too distraught over the loss of her nephew. Now in no way am I minimizing her grief from the death of her nephew. But a test was never rescheduled! WTH!?!

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15406681/shacknai-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-zahau-family-attorney?clienttype=printable

I've been wondering...could AB send one of these to DS considering she's sort of making accusations about a woman who can't even defend herself? Would it make any difference that she's using the platform of Maxie's House to say, not in the exact words, that Rebecca did something to Max? How would something like that work? Or is it even possible? I could very well be wrong. However, I found it very concerning that she was allowed to all but say Rebecca assaulted Max without any proof.

"...You have absolutely no facts to support these false and irresponsible statements..."

Inparadise wrote:

Tamta wrote:

In NYC even the FD comes.

They were there also! Most of the CFD are EMTs........they will only hire EMTs. Even though the tennis courts are right next door to the fire house, they brought the big fire truck.

EMT in NYC is part of the Fire Department.

Tamta wrote:

starlight wrote:I wasn't suggesting a criminal investigation SHOULD have been started at the time of Max's fall. My point is that when questions were being asked about the event, everyone involved had plenty of time to construct an explanation and physical evidence would be for the most part non-existent. There would be no way to determine how Max fell, and I am sure we will never know unless an eyewitness comes forward.

If an ambulance came for Max, would the police also respond? I don't think they do. Why would there be any report?

Also, Dina said she came to know that CPS was contacted. She did not initiate that. I believe the hospital did that before Rebecca died. Is that standard operating procedure? It might be. If not, a professional already suspected that Max was assaulted.

Starlight,

BBM.

I was making general comments not specifically addressed to you.
I also do not think that we are disagreeing.
I bet almost all of the physical evidence was still on site.
The key to truth about Max's accident IMO lies in the human factor: the humans who saw and participated with the environment just prior and during the incident-
JS very cleverly established NO WITNESSES.
I do not think the objects could clearly speak for themselves.

CPS was contacted by Max's doctor, not LE.

As for LE responding too, my son had a choking incident at a restaurant and two LEO came after the paramedics arrived.

I would think that an emergency response to an accident requires LEO to present themselves.
There may be suspicious circumstances at the scene that need to be assessed immediately.

BBM: Sorry to misunderstand but you quoted me so I assumed you were responding to me. It sounded like you were defending LE and I was not criticizing them. That is all.

starlight wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Starlight,

BBM.

I was making general comments not specifically addressed to you.
I also do not think that we are disagreeing.
I bet almost all of the physical evidence was still on site.
The key to truth about Max's accident IMO lies in the human factor: the humans who saw and participated with the environment just prior and during the incident-
JS very cleverly established NO WITNESSES.
I do not think the objects could clearly speak for themselves.

CPS was contacted by Max's doctor, not LE.

As for LE responding too, my son had a choking incident at a restaurant and two LEO came after the paramedics arrived.

I would think that an emergency response to an accident requires LEO to present themselves.
There may be suspicious circumstances at the scene that need to be assessed immediately.

BBM: Sorry to misunderstand but you quoted me so I assumed you were responding to me. It sounded like you were defending LE and I was not criticizing them. That is all.

Well after Rebecca's death, I do not think that CPD was in an authoritative position(DOJ agents involved and all), so I probably tend towards a position that does not place too much responsibility on this PD for what transpired. I see them more as instruments I guess.

I see what you mean and I think you are right.

Freckles wrote:Again, I ask:
Where did they break bread the last evening?
What time was it?
Was Howard with them?
Where is the credit card rcpt ?The waiters who served them? etc. IIRC, there was NO food in Rebecca's stomach.

When did AS leave?

These are great questions Freckles!!! Was there even really a dinner together?
Adam and Howard the shadow man Luber sure came into the picture quickly. If anyone conspired against Rebecca, that planning seemed to have begun almost immediately.

I have a couple questions too... who was interested in reading up on "sexy Asian girls" and what is the hurtful information that Rebecca's family doesn't want made public?

Glaring Error:
Good point re the Asian porn.
IIRC, there was :
---Adam confessed to watching porn ALL night long the morning Rebecca was found; he said he watched on his cell phone. How easy would that be to turn it on and let it run in the guest house while he was out and about doing other things?

---Who was accessing Asian porn on JS/Rebecca's home computer?

---Who was accessing Asian porn on the home computer at 6:11AM while Rebecca was hanging in the back yard, according to time frame of coroner/ME???

--- Who was accessing Asian porn while use an airline account? Was it SouthWest?

I seriously doubt Rebecca was into this crap. And only one person has stepped forward: Adam.

Also: Exactly whose underwear was left in the guest house? Why was that not collected and tested? I don't want speculation from the investigators ---I want FACTS.
And that is something they seem to be very short on.

Freckles .... I want FACTS.
And that is something they seem to be very short on.

AMEN...

As much attention as this case is getting, and no
doubt will continue to.. what is keeping authorities
sitting around with their thumbs stuck up their noses
acting as if they have done their jobs?
At some point, someone is going to break this thing
wide open, so why not just "Gitter Done"?

starlight wrote:Since Max did not die when he fell, when did the police do their questioning of all involved and present? I would assume it was after all the evidence was cleared away and days after the event and Rebecca's death.

According to search warrant 41290, a sweep of the mansion for the purpose of Maxie's investigation was not executed until 4 days after Maxie's fall and more than 48hrs after Rebecca was found.

41290 - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

Twinkie wrote:Does anyone remember what day it was that Dr. Peterson told the family that he thought Max could've been suffocated? Maybe CPS was contacted then or maybe even before. I recall that a detective had been in touch with Rebecca, maybe in person, IDK, but her phone records show that a detective was at least contacting her via phone. Not sure if these will help, but I did save these awhile back.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/d33Ze

A statement from Dina Shacknai regarding CPS from the Dr. Drew Show-

SHACKNAI: I would also like to add to that. This -- the idea of what happened to Max was such a shock, it wasn`t until Thursday afternoon that I was even informed by a doctor at Rady Children`s Hospital that they suspected something and CPS was called. Really, I feel during the week, it was such a traumatic shock, I was really, you know, not apprised of all the other information going on with I guess the Coronado Police Department`s investigation.

Transcript - http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1208/07/ddhln.01.html

Below is a segment of NR's interview where she states it was Wednesday morning or afternoon when they found out the extent of Maxie's tragic injuries.

Questions? JS allegedly leaves RZ a voicemail at 12:30am Wednesday morning sharing the unfortunate news about Maxie. I take from Nina's interview JS knew the extent of Maxie's injuries before everyone else? It is possible JS was privy to a conversation with a doctor, but when did it happen? Did he learn before dinner or after? Dinner was over by 7:30pm, the voicemail left at 12:30am. If JS knew before Tuesday's dinner, why not have a personal conversation with RZ and Adam while in the car or at dinner? Did he learn after dinner during this 5hr period while supposedly DS, NR and JS were all together at the hospital? In my opinion too many questions for SDSO Lt. Nesbit to have made the remarkable comment that the voicemail "would have been helpful but it was not critical to the case."

Nina's interview-

CROSSTALK: So how did this whole suffocation thing come up with the doctor and when did he tell you? Kind of run me through the timeline of that.

NINA: So it was a, Max had a consult on Wednesday and this was really, this was after Rebecca had passed, that he had this cardiac consult and that he had a MRI to find out the extent of the damage Wednesday morning was when we found out, Wednesday morning afternoon was when we found out the actual extent of the damage. And it was shocking. Just to back up a little bit, when my sister told me a little bit about what happened to with what happened to Rebecca, the first thing that was said was, why she hung herself with what? We don't even know what's going on with Max, what do what are you talking about what? It was very bizarre, it was very very bizarre. And we found out Wednesday the extent of his damage, which was that his brain was gone. So, then Thursday Dr. Peterson had a meeting with Dina and Jonah and said that the extent of the damage in Max's brain there was no way that he could have had CPR within 2 minutes, it was impossible to have had CPR within 2 minutes without any oxygen it was impossible so my sister said what could cause this?What could cause a 6 year old to go into full cardiac arrest, a healthy 6 year old to go into full cardiac arrest. And he said its possible suffocation. And that's how it came up.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3

Lash wrote:

Twinkie wrote:Does anyone remember what day it was that Dr. Peterson told the family that he thought Max could've been suffocated? Maybe CPS was contacted then or maybe even before. I recall that a detective had been in touch with Rebecca, maybe in person, IDK, but her phone records show that a detective was at least contacting her via phone. Not sure if these will help, but I did save these awhile back.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/d33Ze

A statement from Dina Shacknai regarding CPS from the Dr. Drew Show-

SHACKNAI: I would also like to add to that. This -- the idea of what happened to Max was such a shock, it wasn`t until Thursday afternoon that I was even informed by a doctor at Rady Children`s Hospital that they suspected something and CPS was called. Really, I feel during the week, it was such a traumatic shock, I was really, you know, not apprised of all the other information going on with I guess the Coronado Police Department`s investigation.

Transcript - http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1208/07/ddhln.01.html

A Physician made the referral.
The contact was between the Physician and and CPS.
At the point LE would not have been involved.

7/14/2011 Det. Adkins was requested to respond to Children's Hospital in regard to a pending Protective Services Report that was going to be filed by Jessica Robershaw, Children's Hospital Social Worker.

Warrant 41290 - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

Lash wrote:Below is a segment of NR's interview where she states it was Wednesday morning or afternoon when they found out the extent of Maxie's tragic injuries.

Questions? JS allegedly leaves RZ a voicemail at 12:30am Wednesday morning sharing the unfortunate news about Maxie. I take from Nina's interview JS knew the extent of Maxie's injuries before everyone else? It is possible JS was privy to a conversation with a doctor, but when did it happen? Did he learn before dinner or after? Dinner was over by 7:30pm, the voicemail left at 12:30am. If JS knew before Tuesday's dinner, why not have a personal conversation with RZ and Adam while in the car or at dinner? Did he learn after dinner during this 5hr period while supposedly DS, NR and JS were all together at the hospital? In my opinion too many questions for SDSO Lt. Nesbit to have made the remarkable comment that the voicemail "would have been helpful but it was not critical to the case."

Nina's interview-

CROSSTALK: So how did this whole suffocation thing come up with the doctor and when did he tell you? Kind of run me through the timeline of that.

NINA: So it was a, Max had a consult on Wednesday and this was really, this was after Rebecca had passed, that he had this cardiac consult and that he had a MRI to find out the extent of the damage Wednesday morning was when we found out, Wednesday morning afternoon was when we found out the actual extent of the damage. And it was shocking. Just to back up a little bit, when my sister told me a little bit about what happened to with what happened to Rebecca, the first thing that was said was, why she hung herself with what? We don't even know what's going on with Max, what do what are you talking about what? It was very bizarre, it was very very bizarre. And we found out Wednesday the extent of his damage, which was that his brain was gone. So, then Thursday Dr. Peterson had a meeting with Dina and Jonah and said that the extent of the damage in Max's brain there was no way that he could have had CPR within 2 minutes, it was impossible to have had CPR within 2 minutes without any oxygen it was impossible so my sister said what could cause this?What could cause a 6 year old to go into full cardiac arrest, a healthy 6 year old to go into full cardiac arrest. And he said its possible suffocation. And that's how it came up.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3

It was never any news as to how long Max had gone without oxygen(like they knew that from the outset because of how long it took to medically resuscitate him), and I am sure the doctors were being very pragmatic with the family about the prognosis.

I do not believe that that MRI was investigatory as much as confirming the damage and that he was indeed 'dead'.

Lash wrote:7/14/2011 Det. Adkins was requested to respond to Children's Hospital in regard to a pending Protective Services Report that was going to be filed by Jessica Robershaw, Children's Hospital Social Worker.

Warrant 41290 - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

Looking at the timeline, I just do not believe that a report was even close to submission.

When a referral is received, the social service staff obtains facts from the person making the referral to determine if the referral alleges abuse, neglect, or exploitation.

(IMO, that may have been where they were at that point.)

Then, the Emergency Response staff determines if an in-person response is indicated.

It is quite some time when an investigation is completed and a report submitted, therefore pending.

IMO, according to my understanding, this is not accurate representation of how the system works.

Didn't KZ tell us that due to the injury that most likely
Max's airway would have been blocked? I'm not sure
exactly how she explained this, but suffocation, as I
recall would have been a very distinct possibility...
anyway that is what I am recalling. Wish I could retain
what I hear/read.

By reading the statement made by Nina, and statements
made by Dina, it seems to me these two hear a part of
something and then expand on it. Suffocation to them
probably equates to Max being suffocated by someone and
it would never occur to either of them an injury could have
caused the suffocation.

When my best friend collapsed and died.. (he was DOA ) at
the ER... resuscitated, and placed on life support. I was
the only one there until his family arrived the next day.
During those 24 hours I was asking questions... asking
the nurses, asking the doctors. I wanted him to wake up,
talked til I was red, white, black & blue. I knew nothing
was reaching him. And yes I tried everything. Talking,
scents, sounds, touch... He wasn't my child, but I loved
him dearly... When the docs came in to test for reflexes
and such, I asked.. and was told.. The first 24 to 48 hrs.
and after 72 hrs.. if there was no brain activity.. I just
don't see how these women, unless they are total rejects,
could not know.

NO WAY to I believe the family did not know Max was not
going to recover. If they didn't know, they are dumber than
dirt. You can bet doctors were talking to the family about
organ donation. At least asking them to consider it.
Doctors don't wait until the last minute. Medical staff was
talking to them long before what Nina says they did.

Marica wrote:Didn't KZ tell us that due to the injury that most likely
Max's airway would have been blocked? I'm not sure
exactly how she explained this, but suffocation, as I
recall would have been a very distinct possibility...
anyway that is what I am recalling. Wish I could retain
what I hear/read.

By reading the statement made by Nina, and statements
made by Dina, it seems to me these two hear a part of
something and then expand on it. Suffocation to them
probably equates to Max being suffocated by someone and
it would never occur to either of them an injury could have
caused the suffocation.

When my best friend collapsed and died.. (he was DOA ) at
the ER... resuscitated, and placed on life support. I was
the only one there until his family arrived the next day.
During those 24 hours I was asking questions... asking
the nurses, asking the doctors. I wanted him to wake up,
talked til I was red, white, black & blue. I knew nothing
was reaching him. And yes I tried everything. Talking,
scents, sounds, touch... He wasn't my child, but I loved
him dearly... When the docs came in to test for reflexes
and such, I asked.. and was told.. The first 24 to 48 hrs.
and after 72 hrs.. if there was no brain activity.. I just
don't see how these women, unless they are total rejects,
could not know.

NO WAY to I believe the family did not know Max was not
going to recover. If they didn't know, they are dumber than
dirt. You can bet doctors were talking to the family about
organ donation. At least asking them to consider it.
Doctors don't wait until the last minute. Medical staff was
talking to them long before what Nina says they did.

Marica

ITA.

Yes, KZ did.
A whole range of spinal injuries can produce respiratory complications, and I imagine the child's system as an added vulnerability.

It took 30 minutes to resuscitate Max.

His body did not have oxygen for 30 minutes.
That's not a minor detail.

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:Below is a segment of NR's interview where she states it was Wednesday morning or afternoon when they found out the extent of Maxie's tragic injuries.

Questions? JS allegedly leaves RZ a voicemail at 12:30am Wednesday morning sharing the unfortunate news about Maxie. I take from Nina's interview JS knew the extent of Maxie's injuries before everyone else? It is possible JS was privy to a conversation with a doctor, but when did it happen? Did he learn before dinner or after? Dinner was over by 7:30pm, the voicemail left at 12:30am. If JS knew before Tuesday's dinner, why not have a personal conversation with RZ and Adam while in the car or at dinner? Did he learn after dinner during this 5hr period while supposedly DS, NR and JS were all together at the hospital? In my opinion too many questions for SDSO Lt. Nesbit to have made the remarkable comment that the voicemail "would have been helpful but it was not critical to the case."

Nina's interview-

CROSSTALK: So how did this whole suffocation thing come up with the doctor and when did he tell you? Kind of run me through the timeline of that.

NINA: So it was a, Max had a consult on Wednesday and this was really, this was after Rebecca had passed, that he had this cardiac consult and that he had a MRI to find out the extent of the damage Wednesday morning was when we found out, Wednesday morning afternoon was when we found out the actual extent of the damage. And it was shocking. Just to back up a little bit, when my sister told me a little bit about what happened to with what happened to Rebecca, the first thing that was said was, why she hung herself with what? We don't even know what's going on with Max, what do what are you talking about what? It was very bizarre, it was very very bizarre. And we found out Wednesday the extent of his damage, which was that his brain was gone. So, then Thursday Dr. Peterson had a meeting with Dina and Jonah and said that the extent of the damage in Max's brain there was no way that he could have had CPR within 2 minutes, it was impossible to have had CPR within 2 minutes without any oxygen it was impossible so my sister said what could cause this?What could cause a 6 year old to go into full cardiac arrest, a healthy 6 year old to go into full cardiac arrest. And he said its possible suffocation. And that's how it came up.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3

It was never any news as to how long Max had gone without oxygen(like they knew that from the outset because of how long it took to medically resuscitate him), and I am sure the doctors were being very pragmatic with the family about the prognosis.

I do not believe that that MRI was investigatory as much as confirming the damage and that he was indeed 'dead'.

The MRI was used to determine the extent of the damage caused by the injuries to the brain.

MRI vs. CT Scan in Determining Brain Injuries

When a traumatic head injury occurs, one of the first questions is “How bad is it?” Doctors have a variety of tests and evaluation methods for assessing the extent of brain injury, including CT scans and MRIs.

Magnetic Resonance Imaging (”MRI”) is not often used in acute head injury cases. After the acute phase has passed, the doctor may want an MRI to evaluate the location and extent of brain injury to determine further treatment and rehabilitation options.

http://www.headbraininjuries.com/brain-injuries-mri-ct-scan

New MRI Reveals Mysteries of Brain Injuries



Published on Mar 1, 2012 by AssociatedPress

The extent of damage in a traumatic brain injury is nearly impossible to predict. But a new type of MRI test paints a picture of the brain never seen before. It may give doctors and patients a clearer idea of what to expect. (March 2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSDKrL6feOI

Lash wrote:7/14/2011 Det. Adkins was requested to respond to Children's Hospital in regard to a pending Protective Services Report that was going to be filed by Jessica Robershaw, Children's Hospital Social Worker.

Warrant 41290 - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

Rebecca was pronounced dead on July 13, 2011, the warrant was requested on July 15, 2011 and was signed by the judge on July 22, 2011.

Page 11 of the Warrant Document:

(from the above link provided by Lash).

Excerpt

OFFICER: I requet that this affidavit, Search Warrant, and supporting attachments be sealed pending further order of the court. I Make the request for the following reasons:

Without sealing the affidavit, and supporting documentation, and more become a matter of public record within ten days. Penal Code section 1534(a), sealing is justified even against discovery by the defendants based on the governmental privilege that allows for the protection of the identity of informants persuant to Evidence Code section 1041, Swanson v. Superior Court, (1989) 211 Cal. App. 3d 332. The sealing request herein, however, is not based in denying discovery to the defendants, when they are -- when and if they are charged, being is -- but is being requested to merely prohibit public disclosure, which could surely undermine the continuing information herein. We do not wish to divulge the information contained within these documents for fear that the perpetrators can destroy evidence.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Tamta wrote:

It was never any news as to how long Max had gone without oxygen(like they knew that from the outset because of how long it took to medically resuscitate him), and I am sure the doctors were being very pragmatic with the family about the prognosis.

I do not believe that that MRI was investigatory as much as confirming the damage and that he was indeed 'dead'.

The MRI was used to determine the extent of the damage caused by the injuries to the brain.

MRI vs. CT Scan in Determining Brain Injuries

When a traumatic head injury occurs, one of the first questions is “How bad is it?” Doctors have a variety of tests and evaluation methods for assessing the extent of brain injury, including CT scans and MRIs.

Magnetic Resonance Imaging (”MRI”) is not often used in acute head injury cases. After the acute phase has passed, the doctor may want an MRI to evaluate the location and extent of brain injury to determine further treatment and rehabilitation options.

http://www.headbraininjuries.com/brain-injuries-mri-ct-scan

New MRI Reveals Mysteries of Brain Injuries



Published on Mar 1, 2012 by AssociatedPress

The extent of damage in a traumatic brain injury is nearly impossible to predict. But a new type of MRI test paints a picture of the brain never seen before. It may give doctors and patients a clearer idea of what to expect. (March 2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSDKrL6feOI

Yes, and Imaging is also used as confirmation of brain death, that would follow a suitable assessment period that would not solely rely on scans, which we know of as we hear second hand of his reports that the alleged mechanism of injury doesn't correspond with observed injuries.

To a specialist like Dr. Peterson, brain death in individuals is in most cases clinically obvious.
From what i understand, once Max was resuscitated and stabilized, Max was being 'kept' in a medically induced coma.

KZ made a wonderfully informative post about a child being admitted in his state months ago perhaps, the conduct of the medical staff, what a family would be facing, and the subsequent shift in care to preserve and prepare for organ donations.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Lash wrote:7/14/2011 Det. Adkins was requested to respond to Children's Hospital in regard to a pending Protective Services Report that was going to be filed by Jessica Robershaw, Children's Hospital Social Worker.

Warrant 41290 - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

Rebecca was pronounced dead on July 13, 2011, the warrant was requested on July 15, 2011 and was signed by the judge on July 22, 2011.

Page 11 of the Warrant Document:

(from the above link provided by Lash).

Excerpt

OFFICER: I requet that this affidavit, Search Warrant, and supporting attachments be sealed pending further order of the court. I Make the request for the following reasons:

Without sealing the affidavit, and supporting documentation, and more become a matter of public record within ten days. Penal Code section 1534(a), sealing is justified even against discovery by the defendants based on the governmental privilege that allows for the protection of the identity of informants persuant to Evidence Code section 1041, Swanson v. Superior Court, (1989) 211 Cal. App. 3d 332. The sealing request herein, however, is not based in denying discovery to the defendants, when they are -- when and if they are charged, being is -- but is being requested to merely prohibit public disclosure, which could surely undermine the continuing information herein. We do not wish to divulge the information contained within these documents for fear that the perpetrators can destroy evidence.

We do not wish to divulge the information contained within these documents for fear that the perpetrators can destroy evidence.

What does the above sentence mean? The perp the LE was thinking about obviously wasn't Rebecca, because she was already dead. So "who" "are" the perpetratorS that LE wants this record sealed to the perpetrators can't destroy evidence?

Just a note - the warrant was requested and executed on 7-15-2011 by Det. Adkins The judge signed off on 7-22-2011 after the search was complete and the warrant was then sealed per Det. Adkins request.

Puzzler wrote:

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Rebecca was pronounced dead on July 13, 2011, the warrant was requested on July 15, 2011 and was signed by the judge on July 22, 2011.

Page 11 of the Warrant Document:

(from the above link provided by Lash).

Excerpt

OFFICER: I requet that this affidavit, Search Warrant, and supporting attachments be sealed pending further order of the court. I Make the request for the following reasons:

Without sealing the affidavit, and supporting documentation, and more become a matter of public record within ten days. Penal Code section 1534(a), sealing is justified even against discovery by the defendants based on the governmental privilege that allows for the protection of the identity of informants persuant to Evidence Code section 1041, Swanson v. Superior Court, (1989) 211 Cal. App. 3d 332. The sealing request herein, however, is not based in denying discovery to the defendants, when they are -- when and if they are charged, being is -- but is being requested to merely prohibit public disclosure, which could surely undermine the continuing information herein. We do not wish to divulge the information contained within these documents for fear that the perpetrators can destroy evidence.

We do not wish to divulge the information contained within these documents for fear that the perpetrators can destroy evidence.

What does the above sentence mean? The perp the LE was thinking about obviously wasn't Rebecca, because she was already dead. So "who" "are" the perpetratorS that LE wants this record sealed to the perpetrators can't destroy evidence?

that's just standard language for request to seal.

Tamta wrote:

Puzzler wrote:


We do not wish to divulge the information contained within these documents for fear that the perpetrators can destroy evidence.

What does the above sentence mean? The perp the LE was thinking about obviously wasn't Rebecca, because she was already dead. So "who" "are" the perpetratorS that LE wants this record sealed to the perpetrators can't destroy evidence?

that's just standard language for request to seal.

There is more to it than just standard language for a request to seal documents for a search warrant.

To ask a judge to seal documents attached to a request for a search warrant, the prosecutor or the officer only need to state that the disclosure of the documents can imperil the investigations, e.g., "the integrity of the investigation outweighs the public interest"........etc.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Tamta wrote:

that's just standard language for request to seal.

There is more to it than just standard language for a request to seal documents for a search warrant.

To ask a judge to seal documents attached to a request for a search warrant, the prosecutor or the officer only need to state that the disclosure of the documents can imperil the investigations, e.g., "the integrity of the investigation outweighs the public interest"........etc.

BBM.

are you saying that a standard request to seal would not include the word 'perpetrator' and that the detective was including that as a result of his own accord?

Tamta wrote:

Alessandra_Deux wrote:


There is more to it than just standard language for a request to seal documents for a search warrant.

To ask a judge to seal documents attached to a request for a search warrant, the prosecutor or the officer only need to state that the disclosure of the documents can imperil the investigations, e.g., "the integrity of the investigation outweighs the public interest"........etc.

BBM.

are you saying that a standard request to seal would not include the word 'perpetrator' and that the detective was including that as a result of his own accord?

I was referring to the following:

"The sealing request herein, however, is not based in denying discovery to the defendants, when they are -- when and if they are charged, being is -- but is being requested to merely prohibit public disclosure, which could surely undermine the continuing information herein. We do not wish to divulge the information contained within these documents for fear that the perpetrators can destroy evidence."

It seems to be a pre-indictment investigation that was prompted by Rebecca's death. I don't believe the officer was referring to her as a possible defendant in a criminal indictment.

By the way, that court file was never disclosed. I wonder whose names were on the documents that were attached to the request for the search warrant.

ETA

Dr. Peterson findings, the CPS report, and Rebecca's sudden death, prompted the investigator to take a second look at Max's accident by requesting a search warrant to collect evidence.

Dina and her attorney were on Judge Jeanine's show on FOX tonight - said they're hoping for a positive answer from CPD soon.

Puzzler wrote:Dina and her attorney were on Judge Jeanine's show on FOX tonight - said they're hoping for a positive answer from CPD soon.

They can hope all they want, but the CPD Chief is not about to go there......he is quite upset by her statements against his department.

Dina Shacknai sues county for son's autopsy photos

 

By John Langeler
Fox 5 San Diego Reporter
8:57 a.m. PDT, April 3, 2012

~Snipped~

San Diego civil attorney Dan Gilleon, who has filed similar litigation, said Tuesday the action likely means a wrongful death lawsuit is in the works.

"What's unusual about this suit is they have not alleged any wrongdoing on anyone's part," Gilleon said. "They have filed this solely for those records. That suggests to me they're trying to get their case in order before they file it."

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-dina-shacknai-sues-county-for-sons-autopsy-photos-20120403,0,5372696.story

Dina is suing for the autopsy photos?
WHY?
I would think a parent would be entitled to
have copies of anything that pertained to
his or her child.

That day - the folks in the groundskeeper's apartment (or maybe it was called the "caretaker's") were sent off that afternoon and so was Xena and so was the dog.

Always thought how convenient that when Dina/Nina went skulking around the mansion later that night that there was no dog to bark and make any noise the neighbors would remember.

I don't recall that we ever heard for a "fact" whose idea it was to board Ocean.

Marica wrote:Dina is suing for the autopsy photos?
WHY?
I would think a parent would be entitled to
have copies of anything that pertained to
his or her child.

A parent has a right to most everything and even the autopsy photos...but...under law, even a parent must go to court to get a copy of the autopsy photos.

It was a suit born out of legal procedure only.

And she got those photos really quickly, too...no hassles...

Inparadise wrote:

Puzzler wrote:Dina and her attorney were on Judge Jeanine's show on FOX tonight - said they're hoping for a positive answer from CPD soon.

They can hope all they want, but the CPD Chief is not about to go there......he is quite upset by her statements against his department.

Thanks for that info...you haven't been posting on RC very long - but I've said: I wouldn't want to be the one to tell Dina "no".

I can see how the CPD Chief would be quiet upset; boy-oh-boy is he ever between a rock and a hard place.

And you know they're going to say "no" because - the bigger picture involves SDSO, Sheriff Gore and DA Dumanis.

CPD covered Max's "accident". It wasn't until days later, after Rebecca's death, that questions arose. By then, SDSO was involved in the case.

This is unbelievably intertwined!

Puzzler wrote:That day - the folks in the groundskeeper's apartment (or maybe it was called the "caretaker's") were sent off that afternoon and so was Xena and so was the dog.

Always thought how convenient that when Dina/Nina went skulking around the mansion later that night that there was no dog to bark and make any noise the neighbors would remember.

I don't recall that we ever heard for a "fact" whose idea it was to board Ocean.

I thought there was mention of some 'guests' there also that left that Monday, that they were seen leaving with suitcases.

Strange really.. Max "FELL", and was ruched off to the hospital.
WHY would everyone just up and leave at that time. Especially
the caretakers. This would be a time when help would be most
needed... SOMEONE already KNEW what the outcome was gonna
be. The SCHIDT was gonna hit the fan, so get everyone out of that
place so there were none to give any conflicting info.

If my child was hurt, I wouldn't be thinking about WHO was at the
house. In fact I would be glad someone was there.. someone I could
call and ask to bring things to me or take care of things I wouldn't be
there to do myself.

Marica wrote:Strange really.. Max "FELL", and was ruched off to the hospital.
WHY would everyone just up and leave at that time. Especially
the caretakers. This would be a time when help would be most
needed... SOMEONE already KNEW what the outcome was gonna
be. The SCHIDT was gonna hit the fan, so get everyone out of that
place so there were none to give any conflicting info.

If my child was hurt, I wouldn't be thinking about WHO was at the
house. In fact I would be glad someone was there.. someone I could
call and ask to bring things to me or take care of things I wouldn't be
there to do myself.

Unless it was an older sibling that did the 'hurting' and that sibling had to be protected?

In no way am I saying Maxie's older sibling/siblings intended for Maxie to die. However, I am saying perhaps they were all together, and fooling around, things escalated and the end result...well we know Maxie is dead.

It's so sad. I know Dina and her camp believe Rebecca killed Max...but what if this case is reopened and it is shown Maxie's sibling/siblings were responsible? I wonder how Dina would feel then?

If it all went down like that, it would certainly explain the weirdness surrounding these two cases. Evidence not collected, evidence collected but not tested...it is very strange, in that initially, Maxie's was thought to be an accident (I still believe it was), Rebecca's was thought to be homicide (I still think it was). Now Dina's "experts" (haha what expert cites Wiki and LHK as sources???) contend not only was Maxie murdered, but Rebecca was the murderer. Ha! In Rebecca's case, so much evidence was not collected, even the ME's report seemed scripted. Bizarre. It's all bizarre.

Jonah Shacknai would undoubtedly want to protect his older children if they were involved. IMO of course.

All my speculation.

Vegret... I've always thought Max went over the railing
with some help...
If it wasn't some sinister guy who had hidden away in
the hall closet then it was probably a half sister who is
known to nasty to some people.
I can jealousy of Max by the older sibs as Max probably
spent a great deal more time with Daddy than they did.
I can see one or both being mean to the little guy, but
more likely the sister than the brother.

Sending everyone away ASAP, IMO... had to be so that
they weren't readily available to answer questions.
No doubt in my mind JS KNEW withing a few
hours of the "accident" what happened, what to expect,
who needed to be protected.
Too bad he didn't protect Rebecca.

Yes, Monica, I wholeheartily agree.

Of course there is no evidence, nor is there evidence RZ is responsible.

Same goes for Rebecca's case. Unfortunately. Because in her case, it seems very likely she was murdered.

Marica wrote:Vegret... I've always thought Max went over the railing
with some help...
If it wasn't some sinister guy who had hidden away in
the hall closet then it was probably a half sister who is
known to nasty to some people.
I can jealousy of Max by the older sibs as Max probably
spent a great deal more time with Daddy than they did.
I can see one or both being mean to the little guy, but
more likely the sister than the brother.

Sending everyone away ASAP, IMO... had to be so that
they weren't readily available to answer questions.
No doubt in my mind JS KNEW withing a few
hours of the "accident" what happened, what to expect,
who needed to be protected.
Too bad he didn't protect Rebecca.

As the saying goes, "Blood is thicker than water", Rebecca was not his blood.

Puzzler wrote:

Inparadise wrote:

They can hope all they want, but the CPD Chief is not about to go there......he is quite upset by her statements against his department.

Thanks for that info...you haven't been posting on RC very long - but I've said: I wouldn't want to be the one to tell Dina "no".

I can see how the CPD Chief would be quiet upset; boy-oh-boy is he ever between a rock and a hard place.

And you know they're going to say "no" because - the bigger picture involves SDSO, Sheriff Gore and DA Dumanis.

And keep in mind that Gore was the DA's Special Investigator after he left the FBI and before he joined SDSO, so he has a very close relationship with Bonnie.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Lash wrote:7/14/2011 Det. Adkins was requested to respond to Children's Hospital in regard to a pending Protective Services Report that was going to be filed by Jessica Robershaw, Children's Hospital Social Worker.

Warrant 41290 - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

Rebecca was pronounced dead on July 13, 2011, the warrant was requested on July 15, 2011 and was signed by the judge on July 22, 2011.

Page 11 of the Warrant Document:

(from the above link provided by Lash).

Excerpt

OFFICER: I requet that this affidavit, Search Warrant, and supporting attachments be sealed pending further order of the court. I Make the request for the following reasons:

Without sealing the affidavit, and supporting documentation, and more become a matter of public record within ten days. Penal Code section 1534(a), sealing is justified even against discovery by the defendants based on the governmental privilege that allows for the protection of the identity of informants persuant to Evidence Code section 1041, Swanson v. Superior Court, (1989) 211 Cal. App. 3d 332. The sealing request herein, however, is not based in denying discovery to the defendants, when they are -- when and if they are charged, being is -- but is being requested to merely prohibit public disclosure, which could surely undermine the continuing information herein. We do not wish to divulge the information contained within these documents for fear that the perpetrators can destroy evidence.

Interesting wording, IMO. "The sealing request herein, however, is not based in denying discovery to the defendants, when they are -- when and if they are charged" When the defendants are charged is what he was going to say.