Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11 #2

KZ wrote:

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

The graphic illustration that Gore presented at the press conference to depict the manner in which Max allegedly fell from the guard rail on the second floor was a total joke, the scale was wrong, the center of gravity was wrong, everything was wrong!

I agree. I also think that it is possible for Gomez to be wrong about "how" Max fell, but the fall to be still accidental. It was unwitnessed, so we will never know for sure how he fell.

But what Dina seems to be wrestling with, is that Gomez CAN be wrong, but that does not equal assault or homicide.

I also agree, Lash, that there was an awful lot of NON-scientific inferences and gigantic leaps of logic in Melinek's report. That would have been verbally shredded by attorneys if it had been submitted as evidence in court. For Dina to insist that all was "scientifically based", while paying an expert to look at People Magazine articles, a hate-filled, low class, internet comment board, and Wikipedia articles, is..... disingenuous at best. I hope someone comments about these sources in the Dr. Phil interview (but I doubt they will).

I think Dina's own expert, Melinek, actually hindered her case for reopening Max's death investigation. Dina and Melinek were so fixated on making it Rebecca's fault, and an assault, that they veered away from actual scientific analysis, imo. Melinek never should have even mentioned Rebecca's name in her report-- that was foolish, imo. Bove was far more ethical and professional, but he was only running the numbers for the scenarios presented to him by Dina and Melinek. IMO, he wasn't permitted/ encouraged/ paid to look at any other scenarios, from the tone and language of his report. IMO. He was directed to look at only specific things in his analysis, so it was far from unbiased.

It's time for journalists to start asking some hard questions about what Dina espouses publicly, imo.

Why isn't she positioning herself to take this up with the SD County Medical Examiner Office?
Lots of people go after Coroners.

In all of this noise I'm not hearing a call for an Inquest.

An anecdotal example:
http://www.realcrimes.com/Fitzjerrell/Judge%20orders%20changed%20death%20certificate.htm

KZ wrote:http://coronado.patch.com/articles/dr-phil-re-visits-spreckels-case-zahau-shacknai

The Spreckels case soon will have a second go-round on the Dr. Phil show, after Monday's taping, in which the host conducted interviews with Rebecca Zahau's family and the mother of Max Shacknai, the boy who suffered fatal injuries at the home.

Dr. Phil McGraw hosted Zahau's sister for a two-part show in November that included the results of a second autopsy on Zahau's remains.

This time Zahau's loved ones will be joined by Dina Shacknai, according to CBS8, which airs Dr. Phil's show

I wonder if there is any co-operation on the part of Bremner and Hallier that the public doesn't know about. If there isn't, there probably should be. I think they are fighting the same devil.

I like to say: There's always more than one way to skin a cat...

KZ wrote:http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/10/no-new-shacknai-probe-mom-wants-zahau-files/

Coronado police have rejected a request by the mother of Max Shacknai to reopen the investigation into the death of her son last year at the historic Spreckels mansion, representatives for Dina Shacknai said Monday.

Dina Shacknai’s representatives released a copy of a letter dated Aug. 30 signed by Coronado Police Chief Louis Scanlon and Dr. Glenn Wagner, the county’s chief medical examiner. The two-paragraph letter said that police and the Medical Examiner’s Office reviewed the independent information and concluded the medical examiner’s finding that Max’s death was an accident “remains unchanged.”

Dina Shacknai’s representatives released a six-page letter she sent to Chief Scanlon that criticized the decision not to reopen the case. She also requested that she be given the “entire investigatory file” on Zahau’s death.

BBM.

Requesting the entire investigatory file on the Zahau death? Sounds like trouble for Jonah. Seems to me that if Dina ever saw the case file on Zahau, she might conclude that "somebody" has been lying to her about Rebecca killing herself. In any event, I'm sure the Sherriff will be a good lil soldier and will never, ever, ever give those files to Dina's lawyer. Sherriff seems to have extraordinary motivation to keep these cases from receiving justice.

Dina does not have any right to that file, and neither does Jonah most likely if that's indeed what he has.

After dina's trash talk of implicating Rebecca as the responsible party for killing Max I hardly see why anyone in her family or advocates should consider acting to assist Dina's agenda.

The Zahaus and AB are working to absolve Rebecca from
Suspicion in Maxs death and Dina with Hallier are seeking to saddle her with criminal culpability ex post facto.

Seriously, why in this world would Dina think for a nano second CPD would reopen Max's case? Because her experts cited WIKI, a magazine and LHK? Because one of her experts put forth a theory depicting how Rebecca murdered Max? Because she's Dina Romano?

So, if she doesn't ask the DA to reopen, then the AG (going through the same channels as Rebecca's family) we all know her private investigation was all a sham. Just a sham. To pressure JS for a settlement. All the while, trashing RZ and XZ. Just to get to JS.

What realm is Dina Romano living in?

I find it incredulous The Zahaus would agree to a showing on Dr. Phil with Dina Romano.

vegret wrote:I find it incredulous The Zahaus would agree to a showing on Dr. Phil with Dina Romano.

I think it was a smart decision. In my opinion, being part of a show that includes Dina will show the unbiased objective of the Zahau's. Attorney Angela Hallier believes Max was a victim of homicide. Hallier and Dina have publicly pointed their finger at Rebecca. Attorney Anne Bremner, who believes Rebecca was a victim of homicide has never publicly accused anyone of being the person who murdered Rebecca. Bremner and Hallier have both stated that finding the murderer is not their role. The attorneys have stated their role is to get their clients cases reopened and finding the murderer is the responsibility of LE. To date Bremner has remained committed to that statement, unlike Hallier and Dina. In my opinion, the interviews on Dr. Phil will show the public the bias objective of Hallier and Dina.

Lash wrote:

vegret wrote:I find it incredulous The Zahaus would agree to a showing on Dr. Phil with Dina Romano.

I think it was a smart decision. In my opinion, being part of a show that includes Dina will show the unbiased objective of the Zahau's. Attorney Angela Hallier believes Max was a victim of homicide. Hallier and Dina have publicly pointed their finger at Rebecca. Attorney Anne Bremner, who believes Rebecca was a victim of homicide has never publicly accused anyone of being the person who murdered Rebecca. Bremner and Hallier have both stated that finding the murderer is not their role. The attorneys have stated their role is to get their clients cases reopened and finding the murderer is the responsibility of LE. To date Bremner has remained committed to that statement, unlike Hallier and Dina. In my opinion, the interviews on Dr. Phil will show the public the bias objective of Hallier and Dina.

Well said Lash.

Respectfully snipped-

KZ wrote:I think Dina's own expert, Melinek, actually hindered her case for reopening Max's death investigation. Dina and Melinek were so fixated on making it Rebecca's fault, and an assault, that they veered away from actual scientific analysis, imo. Melinek never should have even mentioned Rebecca's name in her report-- that was foolish, imo. Bove was far more ethical and professional, but he was only running the numbers for the scenarios presented to him by Dina and Melinek. IMO, he wasn't permitted/ encouraged/ paid to look at any other scenarios, from the tone and language of his report. IMO. He was directed to look at only specific things in his analysis, so it was far from unbiased.

You're reading my mind! IIRC, someone provided these non scientific sources to Dr. Melinek. It was her choice to use and reference them in her report. In my opinion, the person that supplied Dr. Melinek these sources hindered the case and clouded her judgment to produce an unbiased report. As a professional, Dr. Melinek should have rejected these sources and worked only with the science.

Lash wrote:Respectfully snipped-

KZ wrote:I think Dina's own expert, Melinek, actually hindered her case for reopening Max's death investigation. Dina and Melinek were so fixated on making it Rebecca's fault, and an assault, that they veered away from actual scientific analysis, imo. Melinek never should have even mentioned Rebecca's name in her report-- that was foolish, imo. Bove was far more ethical and professional, but he was only running the numbers for the scenarios presented to him by Dina and Melinek. IMO, he wasn't permitted/ encouraged/ paid to look at any other scenarios, from the tone and language of his report. IMO. He was directed to look at only specific things in his analysis, so it was far from unbiased.

You're reading my mind! IIRC, someone provided these non scientific sources to Dr. Melinek. It was her choice to use and reference them in her report. In my opinion, the person that supplied Dr. Melinek these sources hindered the case and clouded her judgment to produce an unbiased report. As a professional, Dr. Melinek should have rejected these sources and worked only with the science.

That to me signifies this report is a tool to influence public opinion and direct people to LHK for 'facts'.

Dina was told Aug. 31 Max's case would not be reopened.

http://www.coronado.ca.us/egov/documents/1347397373_57083.pdf

Ok, for such big news I can not find any media articles contemporaneous to the release of this statement by the CPD, only articles contemporaneous to Dina's recent announcement of CPDs response on Dr.Phil.

Anyone?
Anyone?

Tamta wrote:

Dina was told Aug. 31 Max's case would not be reopened.

http://www.coronado.ca.us/egov/documents/1347397373_57083.pdf

Ok, for such big news I can not find any media articles contemporaneous to the release of this statement by the CPD, only articles contemporaneous to Dina's recent announcement of CPDs response on Dr.Drew.

Anyone?
Anyone?

You are correct......no media releases by CPD: they were just doing their job and don't see any reason to "sensationalize" this matter.

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:Respectfully snipped-


You're reading my mind! IIRC, someone provided these non scientific sources to Dr. Melinek. It was her choice to use and reference them in her report. In my opinion, the person that supplied Dr. Melinek these sources hindered the case and clouded her judgment to produce an unbiased report. As a professional, Dr. Melinek should have rejected these sources and worked only with the science.

That to me signifies this report is a tool to influence public opinion and direct people to LHK for 'facts'.

Inparadise wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Dina was told Aug. 31 Max's case would not be reopened.

http://www.coronado.ca.us/egov/documents/1347397373_57083.pdf

Ok, for such big news I can not find any media articles contemporaneous to the release of this statement by the CPD, only articles contemporaneous to Dina's recent announcement of CPDs response on Dr.Drew.

Anyone?
Anyone?

You are correct......no media releases by CPD: they were just doing their job and don't see any reason to "sensationalize" this matter.

Yea. I'm sure they don't want to feed the craziness as all the interviewers are doing.

http://www.coronado.ca.us/egov/documents/1347397373_57083.pdf

NEWS RELEASE

San Diego County Medical Examiner, Coronado Police: Boy’s Death Remains Accidental

Coronado, CA (September 11, 2012)

Thanks for the update, Puzzler.

Dr. Phil Show will be airing Max's and Rebecca's case Friday the 21st-

http://drphil.com/shows/

Friday - September 21, 2012

Deadly New Accusations: A Murder Mystery?

Two mysterious deaths within days of each other, and questions loom about both, pitting two families against each other. First, 6-year-old Max Schacknai fell over a second-story banister, leaving him on life support, and tragically, he died three days later. Two days after his fall, his father's girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau — who was caring for the boy at the time of the accident — was found hanging, naked and bound. Authorities ruled Max's death an accident and Rebecca's a suicide, but both families aren’t convinced of the determinations and want the investigations reopened. Max's mother, Dina, says she has evidence that proves her son was the victim of a homicide. Forensic pathologists Judy Melinek and Cyril Wecht weigh in. Hear why Dr. Melinek believes Max may have been pushed over the railing, and whether Dr. Wecht agrees. Could Rebecca have contributed to Max's death? Rebecca's sister, Mary, and brother-in-law, Doug, say there's no way Rebecca would ever hurt Max or take her own life. Hear why they believe the two deaths are related.

Local listings -

http://stage29.drphil.com/shows/listing/

From the very beginning of this accident and murder, I've always questioned if Dina was really at home that morning her son had his accident. Yeah, I know what the story is....she was sick with the 24 hour flu, then she was recouping from the last remnants of bronchitis, was up on the third floor with ear plugs in and couldn't hear a thing. With all the bizarre-ness of these two cases, Dina's story of being sick, not hearing anything and not learning of her son's accident till afternoon, seems such a minor detail, it always gets pushed to the back of my mind. BUT it always come back to the forefront. I call BS.

Those cops didn't just knock politely on her door then leave when there was no answer. In all probability, they freakin' POUNDED on every door. There's no freakin' way she couldn't hear them. Ear plugs, sleeping, third floor or whatever...If she were there, she would have heard them. I do wonder how long they stayed there trying to make contact with her.

And the boyfriend. When did he show up? 1:45, 1:50, 1:55??? 'cause supposedly he's the one who answered the door at two o'clock when the cops came to take her to Rady. Was he there that morning? The night before? Did he spend the night? Or did he come at those times stated above? Did he have his own key to let himself in? How did he get in? Supposedly Dina was up on the third floor, sick, sleeping and wearing ear plugs.Till two oclock when she heard the landline DOWNSTAIRS ringing. But she couldn't hear the coppers pounding on all her doors. I call BS.

I've come to believe Dina wasn't there. Question is...just where the hell was she?

vegret wrote:From the very beginning of this accident and murder, I've always questioned if Dina was really at home that morning her son had his accident. Yeah, I know what the story is....she was sick with the 24 hour flu, then she was recouping from the last remnants of bronchitis, was up on the third floor with ear plugs in and couldn't hear a thing. With all the bizarre-ness of these two cases, Dina's story of being sick, not hearing anything and not learning of her son's accident till afternoon, seems such a minor detail, it always gets pushed to the back of my mind. BUT it always come back to the forefront. I call BS.

Those cops didn't just knock politely on her door then leave when there was no answer. In all probability, they freakin' POUNDED on every door. There's no freakin' way she couldn't hear them. Ear plugs, sleeping, third floor or whatever...If she were there, she would have heard them. I do wonder how long they stayed there trying to make contact with her.

And the boyfriend. When did he show up? 1:45, 1:50, 1:55??? 'cause supposedly he's the one who answered the door at two o'clock when the cops came to take her to Rady. Was he there that morning? The night before? Did he spend the night? Or did he come at those times stated above? Did he have his own key to let himself in? How did he get in? Supposedly Dina was up on the third floor, sick, sleeping and wearing ear plugs.Till two oclock when she heard the landline DOWNSTAIRS ringing. But she couldn't hear the coppers pounding on all her doors. I call BS.

I've come to believe Dina wasn't there. Question is...just where the hell was she?

Maybe she was shopping at Neiman Marcus? IIRC, Dina was scheduled to pick up Max at noon.....on the dot! BTW, Nina said that Dina had the flu, and Dina said she was getting over a bout with bronchitis: which one was it? I would suggest that perhaps she (and the bf) were home and were passed out from the night before.

Shacknai to Appeal to City Council Regarding Son's Death

The mother of Max, 6, who was injured at the Spreckels mansion last year, will take her cause to City Hall, after criticizing police last week

By Jennifer Vigil | 2:32 pm
(Sep. 17, 2012)

The City Council will be pulled into the Spreckels fray Tuesday when the mother of the boy who died of injuries suffered at the mansion appears before members to air her grievances with Coronado police.

Police rejected Dina Shacknai's appeal last month for a new look at the investigation into how Max, 6, died in July 2011. Shacknai announced her intentions to come to City Hall in a Monday press release.

Read more:

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/shacknai-to-appeal-to-city-council-regarding-son-s-death

vegret wrote:

clipped and BBM---

Those cops didn't just knock politely on her door then leave when there was no answer. In all probability, they freakin' POUNDED on every door. There's no freakin' way she couldn't hear them. Ear plugs, sleeping, third floor or whatever...If she were there, she would have heard them. I do wonder how long they stayed there trying to make contact with her.

And the boyfriend. When did he show up? 1:45, 1:50, 1:55??? 'cause supposedly he's the one who answered the door at two o'clock when the cops came to take her to Rady. Was he there that morning? The night before? Did he spend the night? Or did he come at those times stated above? Did he have his own key to let himself in? How did he get in? Supposedly Dina was up on the third floor, sick, sleeping and wearing ear plugs.Till two oclock when she heard the landline DOWNSTAIRS ringing. But she couldn't hear the coppers pounding on all her doors. I call BS.

I've come to believe Dina wasn't there. Question is...just where the hell was she?

You present some interesting and valid questions!
Look at the BBM.
So the cops are pounding at the door, telephone is ringing.
DS is "totally unavailable".
However, BOYFRIEND should have heard the door pounding and the telephone ringing!!!! WHY DIDN'T HE? And please. I seriously doubt they were having "initmate moments" that went on for hours. And hours. lol

What the hell was going on????

Mom to ask Coronado council to reopen mansion death case

Written by
J. Harry Jones
5:15 p.m., Sept. 17, 2012

CORONADO — The mother of Max Shacknai, the 6-year-old who died in July 2011 at his father’s Coronado mansion, will address the Coronado City Council Tuesday in an effort to get the Police Department to reopen its investigation into her son’s death.

Dina Shacknai insists that her privately funded investigation shows that Max’s death was not accidental, as authorities ruled, but the result of an assault.

Police investigators and the county’s Medical Examiner’s Office have reviewed the conclusions reached by experts Shacknai hired and have refused to change their opinion that the boy’s death was a tragic accident.

Read more:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/17/mom-ask-coronado-council-reopen-death-investigatio/

Details of Dina's Presentation for today.

For more info you can contact Diana Smith at Martz Agency.

http://www.ecoronado.com/m/blogpost?id=2019736%3ABlogPost%3A128547

This could be a good strategy for Dina's request if council members have not seen the information. New eyes, fresh eyes. I wonder what authority they would have over such a request? Dr. Bove's, Dr. Melinek's and the unauthored Summary of Reports were all made public online weeks ago. I would be surprised if the council members have not already read these reports. She adds a little dig at CPD about trusting the police. I'm not sure how helpful that will be. I do hope she is successful.

Snip- Shacknai said she has prepared booklets filled with information she will be distributing to the council members and other city officials.

“I’m hoping to provide this information to people who might not otherwise know it,” she said Monday. “Maybe others can look at it. Maybe the Sheriff’s Department can look at it. Because in totality, something is not adding up.

“I taught Max that you can trust police, that the police were the good guys, that they protect us and kept us safe. But in a situation like this, I’m not quite sure what’s driving how they’ve handled this case. It’s shocking.”

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/17/mom-ask-coronado-council-reopen-death-investigatio/

Freckles wrote:

vegret wrote:

clipped and BBM---

Those cops didn't just knock politely on her door then leave when there was no answer. In all probability, they freakin' POUNDED on every door. There's no freakin' way she couldn't hear them. Ear plugs, sleeping, third floor or whatever...If she were there, she would have heard them. I do wonder how long they stayed there trying to make contact with her.

And the boyfriend. When did he show up? 1:45, 1:50, 1:55??? 'cause supposedly he's the one who answered the door at two o'clock when the cops came to take her to Rady. Was he there that morning? The night before? Did he spend the night? Or did he come at those times stated above? Did he have his own key to let himself in? How did he get in? Supposedly Dina was up on the third floor, sick, sleeping and wearing ear plugs.Till two oclock when she heard the landline DOWNSTAIRS ringing. But she couldn't hear the coppers pounding on all her doors. I call BS.

I've come to believe Dina wasn't there. Question is...just where the hell was she?

You present some interesting and valid questions!
Look at the BBM.
So the cops are pounding at the door, telephone is ringing.
DS is "totally unavailable".
However, BOYFRIEND should have heard the door pounding and the telephone ringing!!!! WHY DIDN'T HE? And please. I seriously doubt they were having "initmate moments" that went on for hours. And hours. lol

What the hell was going on????

I noticed inconsistencies in the stories Nina and Dina gave about that morning. Some have criticized Dina for not being available, understandably since Dina is quick to criticize others about their decisions surrounding Max. In my opinion, judge yourself before you judge others. Besides the criticism, why is it important where and what Dina was doing that morning? How does it pertain to Max's accident or maybe Rebecca's murder? I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.

Hi Lash.

I don't think Dina's whereabouts in the early part of that day are relevant to what happened to Max.

As for not being able to be located:

My concerns:

1. I understood Max was supposed to return to His mothers care at 1200pm? However LE was not able to locate her until well after that.

2. As a parent myself (and mental health professional) I am always concerned about my children's whereabouts, feelings, and safety regardless of who they are with- I never take my eyes or ears off of my phone when we are separated.

3. We know Dina had concerns about Max being under Rebecca's care, Dina was aware of Jonah cohabitating with Rebecca, and it's reasonable to infer that Dina would be aware that Max may have been left alone under the eye and influence of Rebecca. If I had been in Dina's shoes with Dina's concern and knowledge I would have made an extra effort to be readily available to Max in the event that a situation presented itself where he needed assistance and protection.

If we are to accept these allegations of threat and danger to Max made by Dina ex post facto regarding Max's fathers domestic partner then why the less than vigilant behavior on Dina's part during Max's stay with Jonah?

Mind you, we are also being asked to see these concerns driving Dina's foundation venture.

To me, that's what doesn't gel about the put of pocket claims for Dina that day.

Also- would Dina's apparent and perhaps unusual lack of concern for Max's safety in the presence of Rebecca that day perhaps indicate something?

Like, did Dina understand or think at that time that Max was with another (others) doing something somewhere which allowed her to have her typical concerns alleviated-

What I mean does Dina know something that the public or maybe even CPD does not about factors existing prior to Max's accident?

In this release, Dina's attorney Angela Hallier is misrepresenting her own experts opinions. Both experts hired by Dina do not agree that this was an assault scenario. Dr. Bove, "I have not taken a position as to whether the actual incident that resulted in Maxfield Shacknai’s injuries was intentional". Why would attorney Hallier misrepresent the conclusion of her own expert? In my opinion, to push the assault scenario whatever the cost.

Snip- "Drs. Bove and Melinek are deeply disturbed and frustrated by the COPD's refusal to reopen the case, and the failure to reexamine the biomechanical aspects of the incident and the scene findings," said Angela Hallier, Managing Partner of Hallier & Lawrence PLC. "After a nine-month investigation, both experts agree that it is clear the accident scenario put forth by the COPD is inaccurate and that an assault scenario is the only scenario consistent with the injuries and science." 

http://www.heraldonline.com/2012/09/10/4251904/despite-new-expert-reports-brought.html#storylink=cpy

Dr. Bove's Conclusion -

The opinions in this report, based upon the materials reviewed and the education, experience, and knowledge of the author, and are presented with a reasonable degree of biomechanical and scientific certainty. As additional information becomes available, this report may be amended. If additional reasonable accidental scenarios consistent with the available information are presented that have not been addressed in this report, this report may be amended.

This report has drawn various conclusions about the kinematics and mechanisms by which Maxfield Shacknai sustained his injuries. Although I have ruled out Dr. Gomez’s scenario as inconsistent with Maxfield Shacknai’s injuries and have confirmed that Dr. Melinek’s scenario is consistent with those injuries, I cannot affirmatively state exactly what happened in the subject matter. I also am unable to determine the initiating event and who was at fault at the time of the subject accident. Although I have ruled out certain types of accidental events or actions (as described above), I have not taken a position as to whether the actual incident that resulted in Maxfield Shacknai’s injuries was intentional.

http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/06/Dr.Bove_Report.pdf

Dina, Hallier and Meleniek don't seem to distinguish between fact and suggestion- at least Bove does.

At best their case is charged and conclusory,
Clearly intended to charge Rebecca (or someone) in the court of public opinion.

I don't give a rat's a$$ where Dina was, who she was with nor what she was doing, as long as it wasn't at the mansion.

Given the inconsistencies (lies) of the three major players (Jonah, Dina and Nina), coupled with the fact cops could not make contact with Dina (nor does she have an alibi) UNTIL 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon, I believe Dina is lying.

Why would she lie? ANY TRUTH would be better than a LIE.

She said she heard the landline DOWNSTAIRS ringing. But she couldn't hear the coppers pounding on all her doors. Right.

Why would she lie?

vegret wrote:I don't give a rat's a$$ where Dina was, who she was with nor what she was doing, as long as it wasn't at the mansion.

Given the inconsistencies (lies) of the three major players (Jonah, Dina and Nina), coupled with the fact cops could not make contact with Dina (nor does she have an alibi) UNTIL 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon, I believe Dina is lying.

Why would she lie? ANY TRUTH would be better than a LIE.

She said she heard the landline DOWNSTAIRS ringing. But she couldn't hear the coppers pounding on all her doors. Right.

Why would she lie?

BBM - Good point...Thank you Vegret!

vegret wrote:I don't give a rat's a$$ where Dina was, who she was with nor what she was doing, as long as it wasn't at the mansion.

Given the inconsistencies (lies) of the three major players (Jonah, Dina and Nina), coupled with the fact cops could not make contact with Dina (nor does she have an alibi) UNTIL 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon, I believe Dina is lying.

Why would she lie? ANY TRUTH would be better than a LIE.

She said she heard the landline DOWNSTAIRS ringing. But she couldn't hear the coppers pounding on all her doors. Right.

Why would she lie?

Dina would lie because she doesn't want the public passing judgement on her behavior. She wants to be seen as a woman as white as the driven snow........while at the same time, she has been trashing Rebecca's image, making her out to be "trailer park trash". IMO, Dina was likely sleeping off a little too much to drink from the night before, but she does not want the public to label her as a bad parent.

Tamta wrote:Also- would Dina's apparent and perhaps unusual lack of concern for Max's safety in the presence of Rebecca that day perhaps indicate something?

Like, did Dina understand or think at that time that Max was with another (others) doing something somewhere which allowed her to have her typical concerns alleviated-

What I mean does Dina know something that the public or maybe even CPD does not about factors existing prior to Max's accident?

Perhaps Dina was aware that Gabby and Ethan were not scheduled to leave until around noon, so she was not so concerned about Rebecca knowing that Max's sibs would be there.

@ InParadise

I also think that Dina has to preserve her "unable to respond /unable to know" position in order to add credibility to her PRESENT claim that Max was in an unsafe situation THEN and she was distanced and not privy to those details.

Inparadise wrote:

vegret wrote:I don't give a rat's a$$ where Dina was, who she was with nor what she was doing, as long as it wasn't at the mansion.

Given the inconsistencies (lies) of the three major players (Jonah, Dina and Nina), coupled with the fact cops could not make contact with Dina (nor does she have an alibi) UNTIL 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon, I believe Dina is lying.

Why would she lie? ANY TRUTH would be better than a LIE.

She said she heard the landline DOWNSTAIRS ringing. But she couldn't hear the coppers pounding on all her doors. Right.

Why would she lie?

Dina would lie because she doesn't want the public passing judgement on her behavior. She wants to be seen as a woman as white as the driven snow........while at the same time, she has been trashing Rebecca's image, making her out to be "trailer park trash". IMO, Dina was likely sleeping off a little too much to drink from the night before, but she does not want the public to label her as a bad parent.

But she wasn't in a parenting role the night before her son's accident, so why would it matter if she got herself trashed? Just say it already. She's 40 something years old for crying out loud, not 14 or even 24. And she's concerned with what people think of her?

She has to know how juvenile and elementary her tactics regarding her son's death are coming across. She's not worried about that?

Frankly, I don't think she cares what people think of her. Otherwise, she would be finding herself a new lawyer and a new PR machine. I think she surrounds herself with people who say "Yes Dina, you're right. Anything you want, Dina".

As long as she gets what she wants.

vegret wrote:

Inparadise wrote:

Dina would lie because she doesn't want the public passing judgement on her behavior. She wants to be seen as a woman as white as the driven snow........while at the same time, she has been trashing Rebecca's image, making her out to be "trailer park trash". IMO, Dina was likely sleeping off a little too much to drink from the night before, but she does not want the public to label her as a bad parent.

But she wasn't in a parenting role the night before her son's accident, so why would it matter if she got herself trashed? Just say it already. She's 40 something years old for crying out loud, not 14 or even 24. And she's concerned with what people think of her?

She has to know how juvenile and elementary her tactics regarding her son's death are coming across. She's not worried about that?

Frankly, I don't think she cares what people think of her. Otherwise, she would be finding herself a new lawyer and a new PR machine. I think she surrounds herself with people who say "Yes Dina, you're right. Anything you want, Dina".

As long as she gets what she wants.

Gold Star for Tuesday goes to Vegret.

Tamta wrote:@ InParadise

I also think that Dina has to preserve her "unable to respond /unable to know" position in order to add credibility to her PRESENT claim that Max was in an unsafe situation THEN and she was distanced and not privy to those details.

And Tamta, not just "unable to respond/ unable to know", but again cloaked in vulnerability and victimhood. She was not just unavailable, sleeping, privately "entertaining" a guest, medicated, or hung over, but it is very important that she emphasizes she was ill while she was "unavailable". So ill she was unavailable to determined police efforts. So ill she did not want to be disturbed for ANY reason. So ill she turned off her cell so as not to be bothered by anyone, including her ex-husband, who was caring for Max. And so ill she was not preparing to receive Max and resume custodial parenting, nor communicating that to Jonah in any way, apparently.

Now, is all that a crime? Nope. She was a single 40-something woman without custodial childcare responsibilities. Her time was her own, whether she was in her closet praying, "sleeping off the effects of bronchitis with ear plugs in on the 3rd floor", or privately entertaining a BF, or drunk, or hung over, or reading a book, weaving baskets, or any number of other possible scenarios. I agree, and have posted elsewhere that EVEN if she was unavailable because she was hung over or entertaining, she had a right to those activities. However, if she was that ill (wasn't she supposed to take Max back at noon or so that day?), then she should have contacted Jonah to make other arrangements and let him know she was indisposed and unable to safely assume custodial parenting that day. And that she would be unavailable by cell phone until a certain time. That's what responsible co-parenting divorced parents do-- they communicate with each other about their ability to parent and be available for their child. THAT is what successful blended families do. They behave responsibly, and take responsibility for their own ability to parent. They don't disappear without notice, or become unavailable without notice, unless a TRUE, genuine emergency occurs, like a car accident or something.

To my observations, Dina was definitely able to contact Jonah to let him know she would not be available for a number of hours. Whether she was sick or not-- she could have called or texted to let him know. She chose to simply go missing/ unavailable without notifying the person caring for her child. To me, that is extremely irresponsible.

I really don't care what she was doing while she was unavailable. She wasn't required to be available that morning, but a responsible parent would have communicated that. But the story doesn't sound at all plausible. It sounds an awful lot like another Dina-embellished spin on what should have been a straight forward explanation. At the very least, it is widely known that she was not alone, as a man identified as her BF finally answered the door.

I also think it's interesting that the person who answered the door, the BF, seems to have rapidly dropped off the face of the earth as far as the investigation went. That individual surely has some input as to his interactions with Dina that day-- when he arrived there, what they were doing, etc.

Anyway, no one could find, or reach, Dina for a number of hours that morning, by phone or in person. Police could not rouse her at her home for hours. That has been amply established. And that is all we will probably ever know. It doesn't really matter, except an armchair psychologist might suggest that there is a possibility that her inability to be reached during the crisis may have substantially added to her own emotional response to what she THINKS happened to Max. Displaced guilt, anger conversion?

vegret wrote:I don't give a rat's a$$ where Dina was, who she was with nor what she was doing, as long as it wasn't at the mansion.

Given the inconsistencies (lies) of the three major players (Jonah, Dina and Nina), coupled with the fact cops could not make contact with Dina (nor does she have an alibi) UNTIL 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon, I believe Dina is lying.

Why would she lie? ANY TRUTH would be better than a LIE.

She said she heard the landline DOWNSTAIRS ringing. But she couldn't hear the coppers pounding on all her doors. Right.

Why would she lie?

This is the reason why I would like to know where she was: She lied. Badly lied.
The BS makes me wonder WHAT ELSE HAS SHE LIED ABOUT? Is her life built upon lies? It appears it is. And lies serve a few purposes: to shift blame, to alter the truth, for attention, to avoid punishment, etc.. All these are self serving.

Maybe, we just might find out who and when the door was written upon?

From DS' behavior, it is apparent she is a user of others. Probably has done this most of her life. Maybe, that is the reason NR was so quick to be by her side each time DS came demanding. Maybe that is why NR gave the interview. Dunno. I suspect she believed she could use JS' money and resulting status for her own benefit; she is now using MS to goad back at others for her OWN inadequacies. Rather than seeking professional mental help guidance to understand and alter her behavior of using others, she just continues to stumble on in life blaming others for her own unhappiness. Then, on top of this "need" for others to make her happy, she has the tragedy of the injury and death of her child--- and she is meanly lashing out at others in a most wicked way.

Physician. Heal thyself!

Inparadise wrote:

Tamta wrote:Also- would Dina's apparent and perhaps unusual lack of concern for Max's safety in the presence of Rebecca that day perhaps indicate something?

Like, did Dina understand or think at that time that Max was with another (others) doing something somewhere which allowed her to have her typical concerns alleviated-

What I mean does Dina know something that the public or maybe even CPD does not about factors existing prior to Max's accident?

Perhaps Dina was aware that Gabby and Ethan were not scheduled to leave until around noon, so she was not so concerned about Rebecca knowing that Max's sibs would be there.

Interesting. IF the older children WERE to leave for the airport around noon, perhaps DS took them? If so, she may have been delayed returning from the airport (shopping? lunch?) and did not know about MS until later. I doubt if the older children would have mentioned it to DS on the way to the airport. (The children, then, would have been in the home, aware of what happened.)

KZ--- You nailed it! ONLY Dina is the victim. No one else has been hurt or impacted as much as she has. Dina was the victim in her marriage with Jonah. Rather than getting counseling or filling for divorce after the alleged physical abuse, she simply screamed, "I am injured! I am the victim!" And she did nothing to change a dangerous ? environment for herlself OR for her child.

Dina was the victim with the death of Max. Supposedly she was concerned re the care being given to her son but she did NOTHING. In fact, she wasn't even available when the ambulance went sailing down a street probably with sirens blaring!!! (She didn't hear the sirens???)

Freckles wrote:

Inparadise wrote:

Perhaps Dina was aware that Gabby and Ethan were not scheduled to leave until around noon, so she was not so concerned about Rebecca knowing that Max's sibs would be there.

Interesting. IF the older children WERE to leave for the airport around noon, perhaps DS took them? If so, she may have been delayed returning from the airport (shopping? lunch?) and did not know about MS until later. I doubt if the older children would have mentioned it to DS on the way to the airport. (The children, then, would have been in the home, aware of what happened.)

I doubt that Dina took the kids to the airport.......Jonah would not want her to do that.

KZ wrote:

Tamta wrote:@ InParadise

I also think that Dina has to preserve her "unable to respond /unable to know" position in order to add credibility to her PRESENT claim that Max was in an unsafe situation THEN and she was distanced and not privy to those details.

And Tamta, not just "unable to respond/ unable to know", but again cloaked in vulnerability and victimhood. She was not just unavailable, sleeping, privately "entertaining" a guest, medicated, or hung over, but it is very important that she emphasizes she was ill while she was "unavailable". So ill she was unavailable to determined police efforts. So ill she did not want to be disturbed for ANY reason. So ill she turned off her cell so as not to be bothered by anyone, including her ex-husband, who was caring for Max. And so ill she was not preparing to receive Max and resume custodial parenting, nor communicating that to Jonah in any way, apparently.

Now, is all that a crime? Nope. She was a single 40-something woman without custodial childcare responsibilities. Her time was her own, whether she was in her closet praying, "sleeping off the effects of bronchitis with ear plugs in on the 3rd floor", or privately entertaining a BF, or drunk, or hung over, or reading a book, weaving baskets, or any number of other possible scenarios. I agree, and have posted elsewhere that EVEN if she was unavailable because she was hung over or entertaining, she had a right to those activities. However, if she was that ill (wasn't she supposed to take Max back at noon or so that day?), then she should have contacted Jonah to make other arrangements and let him know she was indisposed and unable to safely assume custodial parenting that day. And that she would be unavailable by cell phone until a certain time. That's what responsible co-parenting divorced parents do-- they communicate with each other about their ability to parent and be available for their child. THAT is what successful blended families do. They behave responsibly, and take responsibility for their own ability to parent. They don't disappear without notice, or become unavailable without notice, unless a TRUE, genuine emergency occurs, like a car accident or something.

To my observations, Dina was definitely able to contact Jonah to let him know she would not be available for a number of hours. Whether she was sick or not-- she could have called or texted to let him know. She chose to simply go missing/ unavailable without notifying the person caring for her child. To me, that is extremely irresponsible.

I really don't care what she was doing while she was unavailable. She wasn't required to be available that morning, but a responsible parent would have communicated that. But the story doesn't sound at all plausible. It sounds an awful lot like another Dina-embellished spin on what should have been a straight forward explanation. At the very least, it is widely known that she was not alone, as a man identified as her BF finally answered the door.

I also think it's interesting that the person who answered the door, the BF, seems to have rapidly dropped off the face of the earth as far as the investigation went. That individual surely has some input as to his interactions with Dina that day-- when he arrived there, what they were doing, etc.

Anyway, no one could find, or reach, Dina for a number of hours that morning, by phone or in person. Police could not rouse her at her home for hours. That has been amply established. And that is all we will probably ever know. It doesn't really matter, except an armchair psychologist might suggest that there is a possibility that her inability to be reached during the crisis may have substantially added to her own emotional response to what she THINKS happened to Max. Displaced guilt, anger conversion?

Yes!
Yes!
The cloaks!

Hot pink glitter Twinkie matching emanating sparks flashing at intervals star goes to KZ.

Hmmm. Re the bf: Was there something in the divorce papers JS may have had DS sign indicating MS was not to be in the presence of any bf of DS? Kind of a one sided requirement?

KZ wrote:

Tamta wrote:@ InParadise

I also think that Dina has to preserve her "unable to respond /unable to know" position in order to add credibility to her PRESENT claim that Max was in an unsafe situation THEN and she was distanced and not privy to those details.

And Tamta, not just "unable to respond/ unable to know", but again cloaked in vulnerability and victimhood. She was not just unavailable, sleeping, privately "entertaining" a guest, medicated, or hung over, but it is very important that she emphasizes she was ill while she was "unavailable". So ill she was unavailable to determined police efforts. So ill she did not want to be disturbed for ANY reason. So ill she turned off her cell so as not to be bothered by anyone, including her ex-husband, who was caring for Max. And so ill she was not preparing to receive Max and resume custodial parenting, nor communicating that to Jonah in any way, apparently.

Now, is all that a crime? Nope. She was a single 40-something woman without custodial childcare responsibilities. Her time was her own, whether she was in her closet praying, "sleeping off the effects of bronchitis with ear plugs in on the 3rd floor", or privately entertaining a BF, or drunk, or hung over, or reading a book, weaving baskets, or any number of other possible scenarios. I agree, and have posted elsewhere that EVEN if she was unavailable because she was hung over or entertaining, she had a right to those activities. However, if she was that ill (wasn't she supposed to take Max back at noon or so that day?), then she should have contacted Jonah to make other arrangements and let him know she was indisposed and unable to safely assume custodial parenting that day. And that she would be unavailable by cell phone until a certain time. That's what responsible co-parenting divorced parents do-- they communicate with each other about their ability to parent and be available for their child. THAT is what successful blended families do. They behave responsibly, and take responsibility for their own ability to parent. They don't disappear without notice, or become unavailable without notice, unless a TRUE, genuine emergency occurs, like a car accident or something.

To my observations, Dina was definitely able to contact Jonah to let him know she would not be available for a number of hours. Whether she was sick or not-- she could have called or texted to let him know. She chose to simply go missing/ unavailable without notifying the person caring for her child. To me, that is extremely irresponsible.

I really don't care what she was doing while she was unavailable. She wasn't required to be available that morning, but a responsible parent would have communicated that. But the story doesn't sound at all plausible. It sounds an awful lot like another Dina-embellished spin on what should have been a straight forward explanation. At the very least, it is widely known that she was not alone, as a man identified as her BF finally answered the door.

I also think it's interesting that the person who answered the door, the BF, seems to have rapidly dropped off the face of the earth as far as the investigation went. That individual surely has some input as to his interactions with Dina that day-- when he arrived there, what they were doing, etc.

Anyway, no one could find, or reach, Dina for a number of hours that morning, by phone or in person. Police could not rouse her at her home for hours. That has been amply established. And that is all we will probably ever know. It doesn't really matter, except an armchair psychologist might suggest that there is a possibility that her inability to be reached during the crisis may have substantially added to her own emotional response to what she THINKS happened to Max. Displaced guilt, anger conversion?

Well put, KZ!

What says you of Dina not only being unavailable to Max, Rebecca, Jonah, Police, the Hospital etc., but when DOES SHE become available?

Hmmm... ms.dr. Dina finally gets to the hospital and is seemingly unable to understand a doggone thing! When will Max be able to play soccer again? Holy Toledo! The kid is beat up and braindead and WHERE IS DINA? ms.dr. can't understand the severity of the injuries? ms.dr. doesn't call Rebecca to find out what happened? ms.dr. believes her conniving ex-husband? ms.dr. can't see FOR HERSELF? ms. dr. can't speak to and understand the medical team? What a worthless witch with a 'B!'

She is seemingly 'not there' if you ask me. Or rather, STILL not there, or STILL UNAVAILABLE.

Then what does the dumb bleep do? Hmmph! She heads HOME at daybreak and STAYS HOME ALL DAY! (Yes, this means STILL UNAVAILABLE)

Then after a brief evening visit at RCH she heads for the Spreckles mansion, oops, hmmm, or the Ronald McDonald house to enjoy a shared room with her hated ex-husband? Whatever. Disgusting _itch! (STILL UNAVAILABLE)

She meets up with Jonah at 7:00am to 'hear the news' about Rebecca? STILL UNAVAILABLE!

She screws around all day and doesn't hear the 'bad news' about Max until Wednesday afternoon 53 hours after the accident!!!!!! She is just now getting it!?!?! Aaaah, 'What are you saying doctor?' Huh?

WHERE WAS DINA ROMANO SHACKNAI WHEN HER SON MAX NEEDED HER???????

Makes me wonder if she did get a text or voicemail from Jonah earlier on and decided to ignore the knocks on the door. Maybe she put going to the hospital on ice until her bf Sanchez got to the G street house to 'accompany her' to the hospital. I don't know, but she seems very distracted by something.

Point being:

Dina was supposed get Maxie at noon.
That didn't happen.
Whether she was supposed to pick him up or him be delivered to Dina - it didn't happen and she wasn't even awake for it to happen (either way: pick him up or him being delivered back to her).

She wasn't even awake until more than 2 hours later!

Now....how responsible is that?

Dina Shacknai Begs Council for Review of Son's Death

By Lauren Steussy and Rory Devine | Tuesday, Sep 18, 2012 | Updated 4:24 PM PDT

The mother of a boy who died in the Spreckels Mansion last summer stood before the Coronado City Council Tuesday and begged councilmembers to re-open the case of her son's death.

Dina Shacknai has disputed the Sheriff's Department's classification of her son Max's death as an accident after he fell from the Coronado home's stairwell. She maintains that he was assaulted and killed, and has presented independent evidence that disputes the original manner of Max's death.

"I'm here to be the voice of Max Shacknai since he can no longer speak for himself," said Dina, the former wife of Jonah Shacknai, who owned the house.

Read more:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Dina-Shacknai-Begs-Council-for-Review-of-Sons-Death--170257296.html

Mother of boy who died at San Diego-area mansion asks to reopen case

By Marty Graham
CORONADO, California | Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:09pm EDT

(Reuters) - The mother of a 6-year-old boy who died in a historic California mansion where a pharmaceutical mogul's girlfriend was found hanged pleaded tearfully with city officials on Tuesday to reopen the investigation, saying she believed her son was killed.

Dina Shacknai told members of city council in Coronado, California, that she believes her son's death at the Spreckles mansion last summer was a homicide and not an accident as authorities have ruled.

"I'm here to be the only voice for my Maxie, my son Max, who can no longer speak for himself," Shacknai, a 41-year-old psychologist, told the council while fighting back tears. "As a mom and a scientist I couldn't make sense out of the conclusions the experts reached."

~Snipped~

Though Zahau's lifeless body was found bound and nude with a T-shirt stuffed in her mouth, trauma to the top of her head and blood on her legs, authorities ruled the death a suicide. Zahau had been babysitting Max at the time of his fall.

Police said Zahau had tied herself up with her hands behind her back, slipped a noose around her neck and threw herself over a second-story balcony overlooking an outdoor courtyard. Her body was found later that morning.

Read more:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/19/us-usa-mansion-deaths-idUSBRE88I01A20120919

I love to read all the posts here. There is such great input and angles that I never thought of in this case. I feel like everybody on this thread really wants the killer of Rebecca Zahau to come to justice.

I'm so confused over the vitriol against Dina, though. As far as I am aware of, Dina was not on the scene when Max was injured. To date, in my mind, there are no credible evidences that Dina was on the scene of Rebecca's murder (or suicide, if the case may be) (http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue%20One/fisher&tversky.htm). The definition of credible may be in controversy, but eyewitness testimony as to who was on the porch is not exactly "credible evidence" and I could give a million links to support that statement.

This woman lost her child. She has endured one of THE most painful tragedies that can befall a human being. So she may be self centered (don't know her). She may not have been paranoid about her child's every move (don't know). She didn't answer the door (yeah, strange) and maybe wasn't home (then lied about where she was, again, don't know). But she wasn't there, according to Jonah Shacknai. Why is she taking on this level of hatred?

ps. I don't go to left handed bull **** site, so if that's it.... sorry, I'm not aware. Wondering if someone can tell me why people are coming down on Dina so hard?

GlaringError wrote:I love to read all the posts here. There is such great input and angles that I never thought of in this case. I feel like everybody on this thread really wants the killer of Rebecca Zahau to come to justice.

I'm so confused over the vitriol against Dina, though. As far as I am aware of, Dina was not on the scene when Max was injured. To date, in my mind, there are no credible evidences that Dina was on the scene of Rebecca's murder (or suicide, if the case may be) (http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue%20One/fisher&tversky.htm). The definition of credible may be in controversy, but eyewitness testimony as to who was on the porch is not exactly "credible evidence" and I could give a million links to support that statement.

This woman lost her child. She has endured one of THE most painful tragedies that can befall a human being. So she may be self centered (don't know her). She may not have been paranoid about her child's every move (don't know). She didn't answer the door (yeah, strange) and maybe wasn't home (then lied about where she was, again, don't know). But she wasn't there, according to Jonah Shacknai. Why is she taking on this level of hatred?

ps. I don't go to left handed bull **** site, so if that's it.... sorry, I'm not aware. Wondering if someone can tell me why people are coming down on Dina so hard?

I think because she has lied about several things, as has Jonah (for one, saying he sold Spreckles) and is calling a woman who is dead (OBVIOUSLY a murder) and if not her, maybe her 13 yo sister a murderer. Degrading Rebecca's past (even though she had taken jewelry it was taken off her record and not charged). A woman who cannot defend herself. Telling a lie about the two DR.'s report when only ONE said it was homicide. Degrading and blaming others for a tragedy is not healing her own pain.