George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #8

Alessandra shared:

Family slams police for leak of Trayvon Martin’s suspension

"Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, and family attorneys blamed police for leaking the information about the marijuana to the news media in an effort to demonize the teenager.

“The only comment that I have right now is that they killed my son and now they’re trying to kill his reputation,” Fulton told reporters.

imo, no one has killed Trayvon's reputation reporting accurate information. If Sybrina feels the FACTS that have been leaked about Trayvon are trying to kill his reputation, she better than anyone knew the trouble Trayvon had been in and she isn't disputing the facts EXCEPT claiming ignorance about the jewelry and the jewelry tool. Legally this information could not be with held.

Sybrina, Tracy, the Handler's had no problem accusing GZ of being a racist murderer incessantly and inflaming the public with the accusations and promoting a racial agenda, when in fact GZ isn't a racist murderer, he hasn't been found guilty of anything. TM's autopsy had shown previous marijuana use, this too isn't news to TM's family, a fact they didn't want the public to know, it didn't fit the image the Handler's were promoting.

Casey Anthony, George Zimmerman will be big news in 2013


Zimmerman’s shooting of Trayvon Martin will likely prompt two bursts of heavy media coverage in the coming year: at a stand your ground hearing scheduled for April and at the second-degree murder trial set for June.

How will it go? Fred Francis, a former NBC senior correspondent and founder of 15 seconds.com, made a definite prediction Sunday on CNN’s “Reliable Sources.”

Zimmerman will be acquitted because it’s a weak case, Francis told host Howard Kurtz.

“I’m telling you, this is the weakest case I’ve ever seen get this kind of national publicity,” Francis said

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2012/12/casey-anthony-george-zimmerman-will-be-big-news-in-2013.html#comments

Anyone know if this is TRUE???
I've been looking for a link for a while now, only can find 'comments' at CTH, firedoglake, etc...

--- Begin quote ---
---Funny how both Robert Zimmerman and Norm Wolfinger both grew up in Eastern PA,
were in Vietnam at the same time and
Norm Wolfinger's son Robert's Godfather is none other than Robert Zimmerman.

Can you explain why immediately after George's arrest, Norm Wolfinger recused himself from the case and also quit his re-election campaign? No? I thought not.
--- End quote ---

If TRUE, this would explain a lot...IMO IMO IMO

BTW, Happy New Year Everyone!!! Justice for Trayvon!!! (And GZ, of course)

Zimmerman, the Media, and the Law – a dirty dance?

The mainstream media, for the most part, has avoided discussing anything that would shed an unfavorable light on George Zimmerman, yet, all over the internet there were stories containing dates and charges about Zimmerman’s violent past.

Oh, by the way, it was not like the info on the internet was based on rumors or even untruth’s – there were articles on websites that had dates, times, docket numbers with charges – none of this stuff was make believe – it was real, yet the media were avoiding it like the plague.

It was pretty much a total blackout and the media did everything possible to lock down any conversations on their talk shows about George Zimmerman that would have shown him to be a violent person.

Two things happened last night to help me clarify my position as to why this blackout was happening.

Personally, I call it a “Dirty Little Dance” between the media and law enforcement. Another way of describing it is, “You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours” – this is a game we all have played as children and adults. Of course we do not like to admit we have played this game – but believe me, if you probe enough, everyone will admit playing this game from time to time.

For media to get “exclusives” from the police, which Nancy Grace tries to do all the time, you have to scratch their back.

You cannot attack the police with vim and vigor – accusing them of doing a poor investigation – and then expect them to give you a major exclusive at some point in time during an investigation.

From the start of the Trayvon Martin murder, it looked like the police were doing a sloppy job either by design or by incompetence. There were rumors, especially online of the case being botched up. There were many people saying the case was being mishandled because the shooter was white and the victim was black and if the investigation was done poor enough, the shooter would walk away scot-free.

Almost from the start, leaks were being released, supposedly by the Sanford Police Department, about the victim Trayvon Martin – bits and pieces about his school history – from involvement with graffiti, possession of a plastic bag containing traces of marijuana, and the worse of the group – jewelry found in his backpack.

Wow, all of these “major things” sure justify Trayvon being shot, right?. There were people calling in and saying that Trayvon was a bad kid finally caught and shot at the wrong place and the wrong time. There was a concerted effort to undermine the credibility of Trayvon, while on the other hand, there were comments relating to George Zimmerman being “squeaky clean” as far as the law was concerned. While there were rumors of George Zimmerman being squeaky clean there was an undercurrent on the Internet portraying George Zimmerman in a much different light.

As soon as it was apparent that the Sanford Police Department was spinning its’ wheels, the black community in Florida and across the United States rose up in protest and petitions were started on the Internet to encourage the Sanford Police Department to get off their collective asses and do a thorough investigation of the shooting.

Because of all the protests the State of Florida finally caved in and assigned a special prosecutor. The FBI was also getting involved in its’ own investigation. What was unusual about this case is that the State District Attorney did not handle the investigation because of a conflict of interest. In addition, the Sanford Chief of Police decided to step down – either by pressure or by choice.

So, why did these two fine gentlemen decide to take themselves out of this investigation? We might never know – but I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the discussions were made by these two gentlemen.

Interestingly enough, the media are avoiding all discussions about these two gentlemen as to their individual reasons for recusing themselves. Is this part of the dance? Is the media avoiding the dialogue because if they don’t press for answers, they might get some exclusives down the road. There will always be crime and there will always be the need for exclusives that will keep viewers watching.

Regarding the case at hand, the media was careful to not dig into Zimmerman’s criminal past, I believe if they attacked Zimmerman’s past too much that it would make the Special Prosecutor look bad if she decided to not arrest and pursue a conviction against Zimmerman.

On the other side of the coin, if the media played the game and if the Special Prosecutor decided to arrest Zimmerman and subsequently pursues prosecution, then there will be leaks, that would come in the form of exclusives that the media would use to really make Zimmerman come across as the bad guy – in effect, Zimmerman will be tried in the media – much like the media attacks on Casey Anthony.

Well, as I hinted at above, all this started last night. It started with the announcement by the Special Prosecutor deciding to arrest George Zimmerman and charge him with 2nd degree murder.

The first thing the Special Prosecutor, Angela Corey, did was to pat everyone on the back regarding the investigation work done so far.

What was absolutely amazing about her gratuitous speech is that she said her team “launched an intensive investigation building on all of the work that the Sanford Police Department and the State Attorney’s Office had already done.”

Although that quote was technically correct, she was assigned to the case because of what the Sanford Police Department failed to do and probably had no intention to do – a thorough investigation.

She also said that the decision made to arrest George Zimmerman was made based on the evidence and not because of public pressure.

Well, I disagree. It was because of a poor job by the Sanford PD that caused a citizen backlash that resulted in her being brought in to take over the case. It is absolutely a given that she was brought in because of extreme public pressure.

By the way, did you hear any media criticizing her regarding her remark that she was building on what the Sanford Police Department had already done? No, and you never will – because that is part of the dance. If they criticized her right out of the blocks, then they would be blackballed from getting any exclusives from the office of the Special Prosecutor. I call this “Dancing with the law.”

Most of the time, Angela Corey looked like the cat that ate the mouse – she was partially smiling throughout the entire announcement and even during the question and answer period. It was almost like she knew a secret and she was not going to reveal it to anyone.

So, let’s get to the second item that made me talk about the dance that is going on.

What you will not see, however, is any discussion as to why Norman Wolfinger and the Sanford Police chief have stepped down from any involvement in this case.

Also, the reason Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee stepped down might be because of his involvement with Norman Wolfinger and possible involvement with George Zimmerman’s father, retired Supreme Court Magistrate who also served in Vietnam with Norman Wolfinger.

Read More:
http://kevinfortruth.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/zimmerman-the-media-and-the-law-a-dirty-dance/

More:
The woman who found the information did so through Parish records. She’s afraid of losing her anonymity, but I am still trying to convince her to release the documents. She also sent me information that Robert Zimmerman was in U.S. intelligence, which explains his well-connectedness.

Also, I have read where Zimmerman’s father served in Vietnam, supposedly WITH Wolfinger. Either they both worked in Intel or they were in the Army – possibly in an intelligence unit.

Either way, they are close – close enough to have some favors being called in.

http://kevinfortruth.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/zimmerman-the-media-and-the-law-a-dirty-dance/

Kind of makes sense WHY Serino doesn't want anything to do with SPD's Attorney and hired his own.
IMO IMO IMO

art tart wrote:

Alessandra shared:

Family slams police for leak of Trayvon Martin’s suspension

"Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, and family attorneys blamed police for leaking the information about the marijuana to the news media in an effort to demonize the teenager.

“The only comment that I have right now is that they killed my son and now they’re trying to kill his reputation,” Fulton told reporters.

imo, no one has killed Trayvon's reputation reporting accurate information. If Sybrina feels the FACTS that have been leaked about Trayvon are trying to kill his reputation, she better than anyone knew the trouble Trayvon had been in and she isn't disputing the facts EXCEPT claiming ignorance about the jewelry and the jewelry tool. Legally this information could not be with held.

Sybrina, Tracy, the Handler's had no problem accusing GZ of being a racist murderer incessantly and inflaming the public with the accusations and promoting a racial agenda, when in fact GZ isn't a racist murderer, he hasn't been found guilty of anything. TM's autopsy had shown previous marijuana use, this too isn't news to TM's family, a fact they didn't want the public to know, it didn't fit the image the Handler's were promoting.

Art, I respectfully disagree. BBM-
Maybe its just not YET, maybe NEVER but:
WHY has been said that the DOJ/FBI NEVER interviewed the Middle Eastern man from GZ's former employer that he continually tormented? (Sorry, no link, see reason (IMO) in Media post ABOVE)
Also, there are several people in GZ's COMMUNITY who said they have NEVER been interviewed as well.
Just wondering WHY they are WONDERING WHY they haven't been interviewed?

IMO IMO IMO ALERT:
Look the OTHER WAY and you won't find the answers you AREN'T LOOKING for...Make sense???
Called "Dancing with the Law" see post ABOVE. GZ's OWN Myspace shows possible racism. IMO IMO
Talk about real racial tensions??? Find GZ a racist, and then you got REAL BIG problems. JMO

Why are those about TM called his "handlers" but those about GZ are not called the same?

Surely, if TM's supporters are called "handlers" the same can be said of GZ's supporters! I don't see clean hands on his side!! In fact, I see truth stretchers on TM's side (ad maybe not from the family) BUT I see bad liars on GZ's side including the wife, Shellie!

Norm Wolfinger:

Weal big Vietnam is mentioned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_Wolfinger


Media Comments:
Why I haven’t trusted Norm Wolfinger – long before Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_namesblog/2012/04/why-i-havent-trusted-norm-wolfinger-long-before-trayvon-martin-and-george-zimmerman.html

State Attorney Norm Wolfinger won't seek re-election
5:11 p.m. EST, April 20, 2012|

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-20/news/os-norm-wolfinger-no-reelection-bid-20120420_1_staffs-state-attorney-norm-wolfinger-special-prosecutor

Why did Prosecutor Norm Wolfinger allow George Zimmerman to Walk Free?

http://highbrowmagazine.com/1086-why-did-prosecutor-norm-wolfinger-allow-george-zimmerman-walk-free

This is rather strange wording:
" “In the interest of the public safety of the citizens of Seminole County and to avoid even the appearance of a conflict of interest, I would respectfully request the executive assignment of another state attorney for the investigation and any prosecution arising from the circumstances surrounding the death of Trayvon B. Martin,” Wolfinger said in a statement released about 9:15 p.m. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/22/trayvon-martin-state-attorney_n_1374206.html

Wow! Wolfinger is really upset by the request of TM's family for a review:

" Crump sent a formal request to the Justice Department on Monday, saying, "within hours of the shooting in which Trayvon Martin was killed, Sanford Chief of Police Bill lee met with State Attorney Norm Wolfinger. We also believe that family members of shooter George Zimmerman were present at the police department. It was further revealed that State Attorney Norm Wolfinger and Chief Bill Lee overruled the recommendation of the lead homicide investigator, Chris Serino, who recommended that George Michale Zimemrman be arrested for manslaughter for killing Trayvon Benjamin Martin." "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101489408

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/State-attorney-outraged-by-federal-review-request-in-Trayvon-Martin-case/-/1637132/10042672/-/13nq8rrz/-/index.html

clipped---

" There is another report that could explain why Zimmerman was not charged by the state attorney who also showed up at the scene on a Sunday night in the rain, very unusual. George Zimmerman's father, Robert Zimmerman is the godfather of Norman Wolfinger's only son, Robert Wolfinger whom was named after George's dad; that really stinks of a cover-up and personal favor."

http://trends-issues-and-news.blogspot.com/2012/05/photos-of-george-zimmerman.html

Pics:
17 and 18 show the house numbers posted on the building units:
http://www.dominionofnewyork.com/2012/05/18/photos-of-evidence-from-trayvon-martin-murder/?pid=295

It’s been perhaps the biggest mystery of the Trayvon Martin murder case saga: George Zimmerman’s cop connections.

An aspiring police officer, Mr. Zimmerman has been accused by prosecutors of play-acting as a police officer the night he pursued, shot and killed Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla. after pegging him as a suspicious young black man roving the neighborhood. The case turned national when police initially chose to believe the neighborhood watchman’s self-defense claims, leaving a special state prosecutor to instead level murder charges 44 days later.

But questions about whether Zimmerman had actual connections with police or justice system higher-ups that may have influenced the early decision to not charge him were piqued this week with the release of new evidence in the closely-watched case, including an observation by one detective that Zimmerman’s take on the shooting seemed “scripted.”

Documents from the FBI and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement suggest indirectly that Zimmerman’s closest adviser in the aftermath of the Trayvon Martin shooting has been a federal agent – a US air marshal and former Seminole County sheriff’s deputy identified by the Miami Herald as a man named Mark Osterman.

Read more:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1924953/pg1

The reason for the shuffling of the judges:

" Judge Lester was not the next judge in line to take the case, the case would have been assigned to Circuit Judge John Galluzzo, but he declined citing a previous history practicing law with Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara. O’Mara is also the godfather of one of Judge Galluzzo’s children."

http://rollingout.com/culture/judge-steps-down-from-george-zimmerman-case/


MOM appears well connected, IMO.

Looking for other confirmation:

" Both Norman Wolfinger and Robert Zimmerman (George Zimmerman’s father) are strict Catholics.

And Wolfinger’s only son is named Robert.
Robert Zimmerman is Robert Wolfinger’s godfather."

http://kevinfortruth.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/zimmerman-the-media-and-the-law-a-dirty-dance/

An interesting link asking interesting questions:

http://my.firedoglake.com/mason/2012/06/26/is-george-zimmerman-about-to-be-charged-with-perjury/

Hodge podge:
A coach spoke out:
" "There's no way I can believe [Trayvon picked a fight], because he's not a confrontational kid," said Jerome Horton, who was one of Martin's former football coaches and knew him since he was about 5. "It just wouldn't happen. That's just not that kid.""

" His father told the Miami Herald it was for ten days and for having been in an unauthorized location on school grounds, but one of his teachers is quoted by AP that it was only for five days and for excessive tardiness."



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/24/1077418/-George-Zimmerman-might-have-a-case

art tart wrote:

KimmyK wrote:IF...George WAS trying to detain Trayvon,
(Serino mentions a witness to that in one of the recordings),
AND
IF... George did reach into his pocket for his cellphone,
(as GZ stated in one of his many versions of what happened)
IMO, that warrants enough fear for Trayvon to throw a punch in self-defense.
Especially if GZ never introduced himself as NW 'Captain' to Trayvon
(which GZ never makes claim to in none of his many versions as well)
Although, that is my just opinion...

Kimmy - Trayvon did not have the right to throw the first punch, regardless, he too didn't have the right to beat the chit out of GZ.

If you trully follow the evidence, you will see imo as KZ has laid out, the chain of events that lead to the altercation, KZ has also pointed out more than once that GZ didn't have to wait to lose consciousness before he fired his gun.

It seems imo a lot of things are being brought up that have no relevance to the case such as Trayvon's future. Opinions about GZ's injuries will be argued in Court and aren't going to be decided arguing about it on a blog, the pictures speak for themselves. I have no doubt MOM/West have every bit of the medical information for their case.

What???? Someone is being followed behind dark buildings on a rainy night, reaches (per Georgie) into his pocket and that DOESN'T give Trayvon the right to throw the first punch? Many a man has been shot dead by the POLICE for reaching for their ID...What is one to do, wait until the gun is fired to throw the first punch in defense? Are you kidding me?

Let someone walk behind me in the dark and behind buildings, I'll pick up the first thing I see, rock etc and use for a defense, I would NOT wait until this person can attack me (it's a natural instinct)

Trayvon was the one being followed (for no reason), he was the one that felt that he was in danger, he is the one that ended up dead by a bullit fired by the one that was following him, and yet you say he had NO right to try and defend himself, to try and say that he should have waited to be shot first? Does that even sound right to you? If Trayvon was your son, would you NOT want him to fight for his life? If it were YOU that was being followed on a rainy night behind dark buildings, would you NOT try and fight for your life?

Give me a break.

It seems that some are trying to come up with a million reasons of what Trayvon Martin did to get himself shot, each and every scenerio takes more time to even say it than what could have happened. TM's life was wiped out in a matter of seconds. We do not live in the twilight zone where a day can go by in a flash. A minute is a minute, the police were on their way "per Georgie" so why kill the teenager? The UNARMED teenager.

Why did the screaming cease immediately upon the shot being fired, when "Georgie boy" himself stated that he got on top of Trayvon because he thought he was still alive after the shot was fired. If he was so damn scared for a scream such as that to come from his mouth than his screaming would have continued...but it didn't, because it was TM screaming and the bullit ceased it.

School records mean nothing, (and I have yet to see or hear anything about burgliar tools and womens jewelry being found on Trayvon), therefore I discount it or put it to more lies by the defense to sway the public opinion (another Baez putting the blame on CA father). It's all BS.

THe true facts that took the time that is recorded is that Trayvon was being followed from the store that he just bought ice tea and skittles, he was followed behind dark buildings, he had the police called on him to say that he looked suspiscious because "it was raining out and he was just walking" (really?). Trayvon was than caught by Zimmerman and confronted but never said that he was a non paid citizens patrol (and armed at that). Seconds later TM is laying on the ground dead.

Those are the true facts from that night before everything else was added on by whomever wants to justify Zimmermans behavior (murderous behavior). A human being is dead, his life wiped off the face of the earth, for nothing more than appearing to look suspiscious by a wannabe hero, who F'd up big time and took a life while he was doing so.

Freckles wrote:Why are those about TM called his "handlers" but those about GZ are not called the same?

Surely, if TM's supporters are called "handlers" the same can be said of GZ's supporters! I don't see clean hands on his side!! In fact, I see truth stretchers on TM's side (ad maybe not from the family) BUT I see bad liars on GZ's side including the wife, Shellie!

Freckles - Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson step in to promote an agenda, they are handler's, Sybrina and Tracy willingly participated in "being handled" and have been by numerous Attorney's, a public relation expert, a computer expert that immediatly removed all of the social networking of Trayvon and countless other professionals all pro bono, the group has promoted a racial agenda that inflamed countless, they spewed propaganda that "GZ was a racist murderer that shot TM dead." They inferred to the public TM "was hunted down and shot in cold blood," of course a lie. The racial element was false and the FBI found nothing to indicate GZ was a racist but the damage has been done to GZ, the Handler's still promote the racial element as it inflames people at every opportunity.

Crump even "handled" DeeDee with her participation, LOL, due to Crump's interjecting himself into an interview with DeeDee calling a news conference for himself, the deposition of DeeDee held at Sybrina's home after she had to be located after 4 hours, the EXCLUSIVE interviews promoted by Gutman for ABC have put DeeDee's credibility on the line, the State's STAR witness.

Yes indeed, the "handler's" have been hard at work promoting their agenda, all professional's in their respecitive fields with the exception of Tracy/Sybrina.

If GZ had comparable Attorney's to the Handler's in TM's case that their sole job was to promote an agenda & could say anything they wanted true or not, (this wouldn't include MOM/West as they represent GZ in the case), a professional staff scheduling Media Blitz, a public relationship expert, a computer expert, & of course ALL pro bono, he might have been better off. Sybrina/Tracy have "professional handler's that are expert's in their field promoting an agenda.

I am a supporter of Justice in this case for both TM and GZ, GZ has every right to a fair trial as an American, DESPITE the propaganda/agenda's/racial element that has have been promoted by Sybrina/Tracy's handler's.

Gizmo711 shared:

School records mean nothing,

Gizmo, they may mean nothing to you, feel free to discount the facts, you will hear them again at trial and you will see the relevance. You will hear the facts as to who TM was as well as GZ.

(and I have yet to see or hear anything about burgliar tools and womens jewelry being found on Trayvon), therefore I discount it or put it to more lies by the defense to sway the public opinion (another Baez putting the blame on CA father). It's all BS.

Gizmo - do you even bother to read the links provided, I assume you DON'T or you wouldn't make the comments you state. Freckles had the same question yesterday and I PROVIDED THE LINK for her. Take the time and go upthread and follow the link, there you will find the facts. Instead of spewing your opinion based on nothing because you want it to be true, INSTEAD, read the facts, LE has the jewelry and jewelry tool in their possession and that case is STILL ONGOING.

The true facts that took the time that is recorded is that Trayvon was being followed from the store that he just bought ice tea and skittles, he was followed behind dark buildings, he had the police called on him to say that he looked suspiscious because "it was raining out and he was just walking" (really?).

Gizmo - this is NOT A TRUE FACT! I have no idea where you get these ideas as they are NOT FACTS and untrue, even stated as your opinion it is NOT TRUE. No one followed TM from the store. NO ONE, and that is a fact!

Trayvon was than caught by Zimmerman and confronted but never said that he was a non paid citizens patrol (and armed at that). Seconds later TM is laying on the ground dead

.

This too is not a fact, there is NO EVIDENCE that states GZ confronted TM!

I've tried to respectfully respond to you as many of your comments are outright misinformed in the case, you state opinion as fact and in many of those statements, they are NOT FACTS. It seems you are spouting off today about the jewelry/j tool and considering it to be a LIE because you don't even bother to READ THE FACTS.

I'm done. I will have to scroll past your comments as there is so much included in your comments that is simply not true ALTHOUGH the facts are available for you to read, it seems you don't want to be bothered with the facts. It bothers me that you state in your comments untrue information but I guess that is your right.

Most of us on this thread discuss different intrepretations of the information available/facts and form our opinions, I have no idea where you have gotten some of your information, I can't imagine. You have convicted GZ and I guess you are not concerned with the facts available. jmo.

art tart wrote:

Freckles wrote:Why are those about TM called his "handlers" but those about GZ are not called the same?

Surely, if TM's supporters are called "handlers" the same can be said of GZ's supporters! I don't see clean hands on his side!! In fact, I see truth stretchers on TM's side (ad maybe not from the family) BUT I see bad liars on GZ's side including the wife, Shellie!

Freckles - Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson step in to promote an agenda, they are handler's, Sybrina and Tracy willingly participated in "being handled" and have been by numerous Attorney's, a public relation expert, a computer expert that immediatly removed all of the social networking of Trayvon and countless other professionals all pro bono, the group has promoted a racial agenda that inflamed countless, they spewed propaganda that "GZ was a racist murderer that shot TM dead." They inferred to the public TM "was hunted down and shot in cold blood," of course a lie. The racial element was false and the FBI found nothing to indicate GZ was a racist but the damage has been done to GZ, the Handler's still promote the racial element as it inflames people at every opportunity.

Crump even "handled" DeeDee with her participation, LOL, due to Crump's interjecting himself into an interview with DeeDee calling a news conference for himself, the deposition of DeeDee held at Sybrina's home after she had to be located after 4 hours, the EXCLUSIVE interviews promoted by Gutman for ABC have put DeeDee's credibility on the line, the State's STAR witness.

Yes indeed, the "handler's" have been hard at work promoting their agenda, all professional's in their respecitive fields with the exception of Tracy/Sybrina.

If GZ had comparable Attorney's to the Handler's in TM's case that their sole job was to promote an agenda & could say anything they wanted true or not, (this wouldn't include MOM/West as they represent GZ in the case), a professional staff scheduling Media Blitz, a public relationship expert, a computer expert, & of course ALL pro bono, he might have been better off. Sybrina/Tracy have "professional handler's that are expert's in their field promoting an agenda.

I am a supporter of Justice in this case for both TM and GZ, GZ has every right to a fair trial as an American, DESPITE the propaganda/agenda's/racial element that has have been promoted by Sybrina/Tracy's handler's.

art tart

I believe that you started calling Trayvon family's lawyers "Handlers" after Mark O'Mara referred to them, at the last court hearing, as "the family Handlers" while he was addressing the judge. Others have followed suit.

I have never heard a lawyer call the attorneys who represent the family of the victim in such a demeaning manner, especially in front of a judge, O'Mara's lack of decorum is appalling. That type of behavior reflects very poorly on his client.

But there is always a first time for everything, I have never seen a lawyer peddling his client's "story" to elicit donations for his legal fees.

With regards to the evidence, we haven't seen everything yet, the documents that have been released by the court are heavily redacted, other documents were filed under seal. There is still an ongoing investigation, there might be a surprise or two in store.

Gizmo711 wrote:It seems that some are trying to come up with a million reasons of what Trayvon Martin did to get himself shot, each and every scenerio takes more time to even say it than what could have happened. TM's life was wiped out in a matter of seconds. We do not live in the twilight zone where a day can go by in a flash. A minute is a minute, the police were on their way "per Georgie" so why kill the teenager? The UNARMED teenager.

Why did the screaming cease immediately upon the shot being fired, when "Georgie boy" himself stated that he got on top of Trayvon because he thought he was still alive after the shot was fired. If he was so damn scared for a scream such as that to come from his mouth than his screaming would have continued...but it didn't, because it was TM screaming and the bullit ceased it.

In my opinion the screaming by GZ stopped because the threat stopped. I was screaming for help in a recent experience of my own. Once the threat stopped, I also stopped screaming.

School records mean nothing, (and I have yet to see or hear anything about burgliar tools and womens jewelry being found on Trayvon), therefore I discount it or put it to more lies by the defense to sway the public opinion (another Baez putting the blame on CA father). It's all BS.

THe true facts that took the time that is recorded is that Trayvon was being followed from the store that he just bought ice tea and skittles, he was followed behind dark buildings, he had the police called on him to say that he looked suspiscious because "it was raining out and he was just walking" (really?). Trayvon was than caught by Zimmerman and confronted but never said that he was a non paid citizens patrol (and armed at that). Seconds later TM is laying on the ground dead.

Those are the true facts from that night before everything else was added on by whomever wants to justify Zimmermans behavior (murderous behavior). A human being is dead, his life wiped off the face of the earth, for nothing more than appearing to look suspiscious by a wannabe hero, who F'd up big time and took a life while he was doing so.

RBM -

Attaching labels such as 'wannabe hero' rather than a concerned neighbor, is no different than the people who want to label TM a "thug". In my opinion it only feeds into the hate aspect of this whole case. Respectfully, does the name calling really help further your opinion?

I couldn't resist. This song is perfect for this thread! -Imo

Lash wrote:

Gizmo711 wrote:It seems that some are trying to come up with a million reasons of what Trayvon Martin did to get himself shot, each and every scenerio takes more time to even say it than what could have happened. TM's life was wiped out in a matter of seconds. We do not live in the twilight zone where a day can go by in a flash. A minute is a minute, the police were on their way "per Georgie" so why kill the teenager? The UNARMED teenager.

Why did the screaming cease immediately upon the shot being fired, when "Georgie boy" himself stated that he got on top of Trayvon because he thought he was still alive after the shot was fired. If he was so damn scared for a scream such as that to come from his mouth than his screaming would have continued...but it didn't, because it was TM screaming and the bullit ceased it.

In my opinion the screaming by GZ stopped because the threat stopped. I was screaming for help in a recent experience of my own. Once the threat stopped, I also stopped screaming.

School records mean nothing, (and I have yet to see or hear anything about burgliar tools and womens jewelry being found on Trayvon), therefore I discount it or put it to more lies by the defense to sway the public opinion (another Baez putting the blame on CA father). It's all BS.

THe true facts that took the time that is recorded is that Trayvon was being followed from the store that he just bought ice tea and skittles, he was followed behind dark buildings, he had the police called on him to say that he looked suspiscious because "it was raining out and he was just walking" (really?). Trayvon was than caught by Zimmerman and confronted but never said that he was a non paid citizens patrol (and armed at that). Seconds later TM is laying on the ground dead.

Those are the true facts from that night before everything else was added on by whomever wants to justify Zimmermans behavior (murderous behavior). A human being is dead, his life wiped off the face of the earth, for nothing more than appearing to look suspiscious by a wannabe hero, who F'd up big time and took a life while he was doing so.

RBM -

Attaching labels such as 'wannabe hero' rather than a concerned neighbor, is no different than the people who want to label TM a "thug". In my opinion it only feeds into the hate aspect of this whole case. Respectfully, does the name calling really help further your opinion?

If Zimmerman's actions on the night of the shooting would have been that of a concerned neighbor, he wouldn't have been charged with second degree murder.

Happy New Years to all that post here!

It is not so happy for the many we discuss.

This is justmyopinion but... TM was no angel..and neither are a lot of children his age... GZ was no angel but as an adult should have been able to distinguish between right and wrong.

Fact: GZ did not have TM's school record or possibly even a good look at TM that night... (in his call to LE he is not even clear about what kind of pants TM has on) There is nothing in the description of TM that night that states he was wearing tooth jewelry.

Fact: TM was an unknown teen in an area that GZ regularly patrolled and familiarized himself with the people who he knew to live there.
My opinion: This caused GZ to be suspicious.

Fact: GZ followed TM both in his vehicle and on foot.

Fact: GZ shot TM.

My questions really are (as even though I have read the laws... I still do not have a firm understanding) Would any of us (reasonable citizens) finding themselves allegedly being beaten within an inch of our lives.. shoot to kill or would we shoot to extract ourselves.. i.e.: shoot the shoulder etc...

Do we know what we would do in this circumstance with out a shadow of a doubt?

Does the law imply "minimum force required to defend oneself... or does it imply anything goes"

I do agree that one's character does come into play... however, character is based on opinions here and I am not convinced that anyone really has a clear understanding of the workings or depths of another person's mind. If we did then there would not be eraser killings..or abused women, children etc... because someone would then be able to have foreseen the event and stopped it.. We have evil that walks among us...

GZ saying he never heard of SYG etc.. seems unlikely as he took some courses in Law enforcement did he not??

GZ seemed pretty cool and collected on that night after shooting TM... reholstered his weapon... spread eagled TM (his story) and put his hands up and confessed to shooting when LE arrived... I am no rocket scientist but JMO JMO seems like he thought it was a wash...

MOO MOO MOO If I had just done what GZ had done I would not have been that cool and collected..

justanopinion wrote:Happy New Years to all that post here!

It is not so happy for the many we discuss.

This is justmyopinion but... TM was no angel..and neither are a lot of children his age... GZ was no angel but as an adult should have been able to distinguish between right and wrong.

Fact: GZ did not have TM's school record or possibly even a good look at TM that night... (in his call to LE he is not even clear about what kind of pants TM has on) There is nothing in the description of TM that night that states he was wearing tooth jewelry.

Fact: TM was an unknown teen in an area that GZ regularly patrolled and familiarized himself with the people who he knew to live there.
My opinion: This caused GZ to be suspicious.

Fact: GZ followed TM both in his vehicle and on foot.

Fact: GZ shot TM.

My questions really are (as even though I have read the laws... I still do not have a firm understanding) Would any of us (reasonable citizens) finding themselves allegedly being beaten within an inch of our lives.. shoot to kill or would we shoot to extract ourselves.. i.e.: shoot the shoulder etc...

Do we know what we would do in this circumstance with out a shadow of a doubt?

Does the law imply "minimum force required to defend oneself... or does it imply anything goes"

I do agree that one's character does come into play... however, character is based on opinions here and I am not convinced that anyone really has a clear understanding of the workings or depths of another person's mind. If we did then there would not be eraser killings..or abused women, children etc... because someone would then be able to have foreseen the event and stopped it.. We have evil that walks among us...

GZ saying he never heard of SYG etc.. seems unlikely as he took some courses in Law enforcement did he not??

GZ seemed pretty cool and collected on that night after shooting TM... reholstered his weapon... spread eagled TM (his story) and put his hands up and confessed to shooting when LE arrived... I am no rocket scientist but JMO JMO seems like he thought it was a wash...

MOO MOO MOO If I had just done what GZ had done I would not have been that cool and collected..

BBM-
Also, I find it hard to believe that if GZ took firearms training, that it was NEVER mentioned there as well?
I'm not sure of Florida CCW permit requirements, but where I am, they make you take a class and go over that 'small detail' that GZ claims to have not known about...JMO

Jewelry tools or burglary tools?
From the description of the very small screwdriver it seems to be something many stores carry for fixing the screws on eyeglasses. Maybe it was for some purpose on the cell phone, an I-Pod, lap top, etc.?

As for the graffiti: If TM has written E=MC2 on a science door or ABC on the English door or 123 on a math door, would the school have desired to take action against him? I am asking if the school was objecting to the act of the inking OR the written message.

Alessandra shared:

Attaching labels such as 'wannabe hero' rather than a concerned neighbor, is no different than the people who want to label TM a "thug". In my opinion it only feeds into the hate aspect of this whole case. Respectfully, does the name calling really help further your opinion?

Alessandra -

I respectfully disagree, the HATE aspect started the day Crump/J Jackson/Al Sharpton/ plus ALL the professional handler's that stepped up to make this case about RACE, spewing outrageous lies, the lies continue today. This case NEVER was about RACE and never will be BUT you will never hear the Handler's state this, even though it is A FACT, it doesn't support their agenda, they remain dishonest.

Professional handler's SPEWING hate at every opportunity is the problem in this case and has INFLAMED many of us that have seen this manipulation played OVER AND OVER again by these same professional handler's, same verse, differnt name.

Racist murderer or hunted Trahyvon down & murdered him, etc. have been the mantra since the beginning of the case, spewing hate and leading the public to believe this is a HATE crime and racially motivated is outrageous. Well, the Handler's have LIED, and been proven wrong yet they continue to same mantra they are currently promoting. You have stated you support the actions of handler's in some of your comments, imo, they spew hate and promote civil unrest, it is their agenda.

Sharpton/Jesse Jackson crawl out of the wood work to PROMOTE civil unrest and spew hate time and time again and have done so in this case. It makes me angry to see the manipulation in this case yet it doesn't surprise anyone that is familiar with the tactics they pull at every opportunity.

Example:
Tawana Brawley, Sharpton spewed the same racist propaganda and hate in that case and the parties were CLEARED yet Sharpton was too spineless to make a public apology for those harmed by his racist agenda and actions.

Duke Lacrosse - The player's accused were innocent but only after proving the accuser a LIAR. Sharpton spewed his racist venom EXCEPT in that case even though the girl LIED, millions were paid to the players, their families, and the Coach.

Jesse Jackson has shut up finally spewing his agenda since his son, Jesse Jackson Jr. is under investigation by the FBI for campaign fraud and RESIGNED from the Senate.

There are to many cases to list that this hate mongering tactic has been played.

Alessandra, the name calling started at Travyon's funeral by the Handler's, imo, they are despicable liars creating an image that never existed, they did Trayvon a tremedous diservice as did his family to go along with it. The information has started coming out and the facts are the facts and the facts are going to lead where they DESPITE the efforts of the Handler's.. MOM/West are going to see to that.

It's one thing if a blogger or someone on youtube says something imo, but clearly another if HATE is spewed by the Handler's in the National Media to promote hate and civil unresgt. The MEDIA misrepresented many facts, Gutman-ABC, NBC editing of the 911 calls. Many in the public are sick to death of this political agenda that was all started by the Handler's.

KimmyK wrote:

justanopinion wrote:Happy New Years to all that post here!

It is not so happy for the many we discuss.

This is justmyopinion but... TM was no angel..and neither are a lot of children his age... GZ was no angel but as an adult should have been able to distinguish between right and wrong.

Fact: GZ did not have TM's school record or possibly even a good look at TM that night... (in his call to LE he is not even clear about what kind of pants TM has on) There is nothing in the description of TM that night that states he was wearing tooth jewelry.

Fact: TM was an unknown teen in an area that GZ regularly patrolled and familiarized himself with the people who he knew to live there.
My opinion: This caused GZ to be suspicious.

Fact: GZ followed TM both in his vehicle and on foot.

Fact: GZ shot TM.

My questions really are (as even though I have read the laws... I still do not have a firm understanding) Would any of us (reasonable citizens) finding themselves allegedly being beaten within an inch of our lives.. shoot to kill or would we shoot to extract ourselves.. i.e.: shoot the shoulder etc...

Do we know what we would do in this circumstance with out a shadow of a doubt?

Does the law imply "minimum force required to defend oneself... or does it imply anything goes"

I do agree that one's character does come into play... however, character is based on opinions here and I am not convinced that anyone really has a clear understanding of the workings or depths of another person's mind. If we did then there would not be eraser killings..or abused women, children etc... because someone would then be able to have foreseen the event and stopped it.. We have evil that walks among us...

GZ saying he never heard of SYG etc.. seems unlikely as he took some courses in Law enforcement did he not??

GZ seemed pretty cool and collected on that night after shooting TM... reholstered his weapon... spread eagled TM (his story) and put his hands up and confessed to shooting when LE arrived... I am no rocket scientist but JMO JMO seems like he thought it was a wash...

MOO MOO MOO If I had just done what GZ had done I would not have been that cool and collected..

BBM-
Also, I find it hard to believe that if GZ took firearms training, that it was NEVER mentioned there as well?
I'm not sure of Florida CCW permit requirements, but where I am, they make you take a class and go over that 'small detail' that GZ claims to have not known about...JMO

I'm still questioning the fact that the State moved to suspend Shellie's concealed weapon permit because she was charged with a felony, but didn't move to suspend Zimmerman's when he was charged with second degree murder.

It is clearly documented that the gun that Zimmerman used to kill Trayvon was registered to Shellie, did Zimmerman had a concealed weapon permit?

I think this story is even worse than we have imagined.

Snipped from above and BBM-

"This too is not a fact, there is NO EVIDENCE that states GZ confronted TM!"

Only GZ's statement on the 911 call when asked if he was following TM, his answer was "YES"

Oh wait, then in GZ's statement to Serino, it was just "going in the same direction"
According to Serino, "thats following" (Sorry, see link posted above)

So, we are supposed to believe that GZ only "followed" TM but NEVER "confronted" TM?
Sorry, possible, but not likely, IMO given GZ's many versions of what happened. JMO

Especially, since in GZ's 911 call he stated, 'these azzholes, they ALWAYS get away'

IMO, GZ's statement shows intent that he was not planning to let this one get away...JMO

See link: https://imgur.com/a/bcAII
Follow the headlights (and timeline) on the security camera's at RTL. Evidence of following? IDK

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

KimmyK wrote:
BBM-
Also, I find it hard to believe that if GZ took firearms training, that it was NEVER mentioned there as well?
I'm not sure of Florida CCW permit requirements, but where I am, they make you take a class and go over that 'small detail' that GZ claims to have not known about...JMO

I'm still questioning the fact that the State moved to suspend Shellie's concealed weapon permit because she was charged with a felony, but didn't move to suspend Zimmerman's when he was charged with second degree murder.

It is clearly documented that the gun that Zimmerman used to kill Trayvon was registered to Shellie, did Zimmerman had a concealed weapon permit?

I think this story is even worse than we have imagined.

BBM-
I have been looking and looking, but I can't "FIND" any record of a permit for GZ anywhere!
All I have found is a few 'blips' regarding that the MONEY for the class was RETURNED to GZ!!
Why, IDK!!
Yes, I think this case is much worse than we ever imagined!

Alessandra shared:

art tart

I believe that you started calling Trayvon family's lawyers "Handlers" after Mark O'Mara referred to them, at the last court hearing, as "the family Handlers" while he was addressing the judge. Others have followed suit.

When you call them "handler's," it encompassess ALL the professionals that have signed on to promote an agenda, there are too many of them to name. I read the group called Handler's on EVERY SITE I read. Most of us following the case know who they are.

I have never heard a lawyer call the attorneys who represent the family of the victim in such a demeaning manner, especially in front of a judge,

imo, they are due NO RESPECT and I am disappointed Sybrina/Tracy have cooperated with the manipulation. Aftger watching them promote their agenda in this case I am surprised some of them are even attorney's, they are an embarassment to be called professional' s. imo, MOM has been more than kind and respectful to this self promoting group hate promoting, name calling group.

O'Mara's lack of decorum is appalling. That type of behavior reflects very poorly on his client.

Again, Alessandra you have stated this as if it were fact and it is just your opinion, imo, MOM has called them exactly what they are and it is NO WAY reflects poorly on GZ, MOM has been MORE than kind imo.

But there is always a first time for everything, I have never seen a lawyer peddling his client's "story" to elicit donations for his legal fees.

Attorney's do whatever they can to raise monies for their client's defense, just as Baez sold Caylee's memories for $ 200,000.00 to ABC, notice how ABC comes up again for unethical behavior. I trully hope we find out how much $$$ the Handler's have been PAID by Media Appearances spewing hate and lies yet you don't like the idea that it is legal for MOM/GZ to raise monies for his defense.

I am appalled at the Political agenda Crump/Tracy/Sybrina are promoting asking for donations so they can DONATE to politicians that support the agenda of Crump, Sybrina, and Tracy. WHY would anyone be so stupid?
Thus far, they have illicited very few donations from the stories I have read, imo, maybe the public is tiring of the self promoting ideas of Crump.

justanopinion wrote:Happy New Years to all that post here!

It is not so happy for the many we discuss.

This is justmyopinion but... TM was no angel..and neither are a lot of children his age... GZ was no angel but as an adult should have been able to distinguish between right and wrong.

Fact: GZ did not have TM's school record or possibly even a good look at TM that night... (in his call to LE he is not even clear about what kind of pants TM has on) There is nothing in the description of TM that night that states he was wearing tooth jewelry.

Fact: TM was an unknown teen in an area that GZ regularly patrolled and familiarized himself with the people who he knew to live there.
My opinion: This caused GZ to be suspicious.

Fact: GZ followed TM both in his vehicle and on foot.

Fact: GZ shot TM.

My questions really are (as even though I have read the laws... I still do not have a firm understanding) Would any of us (reasonable citizens) finding themselves allegedly being beaten within an inch of our lives.. shoot to kill or would we shoot to extract ourselves.. i.e.: shoot the shoulder etc...

Do we know what we would do in this circumstance with out a shadow of a doubt?

Does the law imply "minimum force required to defend oneself... or does it imply anything goes"

I do agree that one's character does come into play... however, character is based on opinions here and I am not convinced that anyone really has a clear understanding of the workings or depths of another person's mind. If we did then there would not be eraser killings..or abused women, children etc... because someone would then be able to have foreseen the event and stopped it.. We have evil that walks among us...

GZ saying he never heard of SYG etc.. seems unlikely as he took some courses in Law enforcement did he not??

GZ seemed pretty cool and collected on that night after shooting TM... reholstered his weapon... spread eagled TM (his story) and put his hands up and confessed to shooting when LE arrived... I am no rocket scientist but JMO JMO seems like he thought it was a wash...

MOO MOO MOO If I had just done what GZ had done I would not have been that cool and collected..

RBM - Hi Justanopinion and Happy New Year to you too!

1 - I believe this is a very pertinent fact. GZ was a member of the neighborhood watch program. GZ became accustomed to watching his neighborhood surroundings. IIRC, the members of the neighborhood watch all received some training. His training as a watchman is not turned off when he is not on duty. I use an off duty police officer as an example. GZ's training would have included what to watch for and examples of suspicious activities. Also, in these types of programs you're taught to be constantly aware of your surroundings. In my opinion, GZ was suspicious of TM because of what he was taught in training, TM was an unknown teen in the area and the recent neighborhood crime. GZ's awareness training became a learned behavior that is not turned on or off.

2 - Most CCW classes teach you to shoot center of mass or COM for self defense. Your intent is to stop the threat. There are several reasons why shooting someone in the arm, leg, etc...are not suggested. First, the torso is a larger target and a much easier shot than an arm or leg. Also, a shot in the arm or leg will not necessarily guarantee a stop to the threat.

I personally have been taught to shoot COM. My intent when firing at another human being is only to protect my life and the lives of my loved ones.


Few, if any, shooting incidents will present the officer with an opportunity to take a careful, precisely aimed shot at the subject’s head. Rather, shootings are characterized by their sudden, unexpected occurrence; by rapid and unpredictable movement of both officer and adversary; by limited and partial target opportunities; by poor light and unforeseen obstacles; and by the life or death stress of sudden, close, personal violence. Training is quite properly oriented towards "center of mass" shooting. That is to say, the officer is trained to shoot at the center of whatever is presented for a target. Proper shot placement is a hit in the center of that part of the adversary which is presented, regardless of anatomy or angle.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

It seems GZ's 'donations' are down as well these days...

Perhaps people are starting to see 'that side' for who they represent as well??? JMO

Or, maybe some supporters are beginning to see GZ's many 'stories' just don't seem to add up?? IDK.
Are they tired of donating to someone's defense when it appears they don't plan on paying it anyway?

Let alone that he blew through 340K (that we know about) in under a year???
Paying outrageous 'security fees' to a company who states he doesn't "need" that kind of security?

IMO, the guy is delusional, knows he's GUILTY, and knows its just a matter of time.
WHY didn't he just shoot Trayvon in the shoulder, arm, foot? He knew LE was on their way.
He shot to kill. He admitted aiming the GUN, so IMO, he shot to KILL and he knows it.

I read on some sights GZ wanted the GPS removed to possibly 'get outta dodge' since Lester stated all they had to do was coordinate with the GPS company for him to be able to move about the state. Why the need for removal then? Poor GZ inconvenienced by it? Too bad, so sad, IMO, at least he's still breathing!
Sorry, no link. Again, all the above JMO!!!

art tart---clipped---
" ALTHOUGH the facts are available for you to read, it seems you don't want to be bothered with the facts."

Wow. You seem really bitter because I dare to disagree with your OPINION.

When I have called for you to support your statements with FACTS called EVIDENCE, you ignore my comments and then insult me prior to throwing some other factless statement out. Why is that? I am not insulting to you and really find it interesting you would chose to demean yourself over a case that you don't own.

Again. IF you want to state TM has "handlers" why not mention the "handlers" GZ has? Perhaps, you choose to ignore them?

BTW, GZ does not show ANY defense injuries. None.
Logically, if someone is bashing your head into the ground, would you not have defense injuries?

Say he tried to get out from under TM: Would he not have dirt/wet grass on his hands from where he put his hands under himself to push himself upward?

Nothing on his hands. No TM DNA. No defense injuries. No dirt or wet "slurry" marks.

KimmyK wrote:It seems GZ's 'donations' are down as well these days...

Perhaps people are starting to see 'that side' for who they represent as well??? JMO

Or, maybe some supporters are beginning to see GZ's many 'stories' just don't seem to add up?? IDK.
Are they tired of donating to someone's defense when it appears they don't plan on paying it anyway?

Let alone that he blew through 340K (that we know about) in under a year???
Paying outrageous 'security fees' to a company who states he doesn't "need" that kind of security?

IMO, the guy is delusional, knows he's GUILTY, and knows its just a matter of time.
WHY didn't he just shoot Trayvon in the shoulder, arm, foot? He knew LE was on their way.
He shot to kill. He admitted aiming the GUN, so IMO, he shot to KILL and he knows it.

I read on some sights GZ wanted the GPS removed to possibly 'get outta dodge' since Lester stated all they had to do was coordinate with the GPS company for him to be able to move about the state. Why the need for removal then? Poor GZ inconvenienced by it? Too bad, so sad, IMO, at least he's still breathing!
Sorry, no link. Again, all the above JMO!!!

Could be the economy and people are tapped out, too.

Freckles wrote:Pics:
17 and 18 show the house numbers posted on the building units:
http://www.dominionofnewyork.com/2012/05/18/photos-of-evidence-from-trayvon-martin-murder/?pid=295

Problem:
GZ stated he did not have an address.
Each living unit has the address posted in plain sight next to the entrance/garage opening.
GZ' unit has his address posted in similar fashion.

How is it GZ was unable to locate an address present immediately in front of his vehicle?

Freckles wrote:

Freckles wrote:Pics:
17 and 18 show the house numbers posted on the building units:
http://www.dominionofnewyork.com/2012/05/18/photos-of-evidence-from-trayvon-martin-murder/?pid=295

Problem:
GZ stated he did not have an address.
Each living unit has the address posted in plain sight next to the entrance/garage opening.
GZ' unit has his address posted in similar fashion.

How is it GZ was unable to locate an address present immediately in front of his vehicle?

BBM-IMO
GZ wasn't really 'looking' for an address, but looking for an excuse to go hunt some f---ing -oons!!

"Freckles"]art tart---clipped---
" ALTHOUGH the facts are available for you to read, it seems you don't want to be bothered with the facts."

Freckles - I stand by my comment. INSTEAD of claiming you never heard of something try EDUCATING YOURSELF, look it up yourself. DebFrmHell told you this same thing a few days ago, she said she is [b]"tired of looking up links for you, it's in the information released, look it up for yourself." You claimed to have never heard about the woman's jewelry/burglar tool ALTHOUGH most of us read this information over 6 months ago. I PROVIDED you the link, but you are capable of finding information you claim you don't know yourself.

Wow. You seem really bitter because I dare to disagree with your OPINION.

I have no idea what you are talking about, I am confomtable with my own opinions based on facts, your opinion would not likely sway my opinion UNLESS you could provide credible links as to where I was wrong. Again, I have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

When I have called for you to support your statements with FACTS called EVIDENCE, you ignore my comments and then insult me prior to throwing some other factless statement out. Why is that? I am not insulting to you and really find it interesting you would chose to demean yourself over a case that you don't own.

I have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. I don't throw out factless statements, if I state something as my opinion, I state is as just that, "imo."

Again. IF you want to state TM has "handlers" why not mention the "handlers" GZ has? Perhaps, you choose to ignore them?

Sybrina/Tracy's Handler's: Professional's in their field that work Pro Bono for Sybrina/Tracy and promote an agenda. The Handler's include several attorney's, a public releations expert, a professional computer analyst, someone to schedule the media appearances for the Handler's on National Media/Cable, and there are more professionals included.

Tracy/Sybrina's family: are NOT handler's nor are they professionals, they are extended family that may have opinions but are NOT promoting an agenda and calling the media to do interviews, they are just family.

GZ Handler's: GZ has NO HANDLER'S nor any attorney's working pro bono promoting any agenda and calling the media to do interviews, he doesn't have a public relations professional, NOR a computer professional. GZ has no professional handlers. He has 2 attorney's representing him in the case, they are not "handler's" but GZ's defense attorney's.

GZ/Shellie's family or friends: are NOT handler's nor are they professinals lending any expertise to GZ's case. They are just family or friends that may have opinions.

Although you would like to claim GZ's family/friends are Handler's, they are NOT, they are not professionals with any expertise relating to this case and can voice opinions just like the family of Trayvon, his family too are not professionals and can voice opinions. That's the difference.

I guess when you stated "GZ's handler's," I thought you were kidding as he has NO handler's. I guess I didn't respond because I thought you knew the difference.

GZ has no Handler's, Sybrina and Tracy do and that is why MOM has referred to them in Court as "Handler's" because they are professionals, including attorney's telling Sybrina & Tracy what to do. Of course the Handler's consist of many professionals for Sybrina/Tracy. Tracy has been ask information in the past especially about the pin for Trayvon's phone and Ttracy's response was: "I will have to ask my attorney," or his handler. That is why MOM referred to the group as "handler's" as they are dispensing legal advice.

Sybrina Fulton wants justice for her son Trayvon Martin in 2013

December 29, 2012 By NDG Staff

This holiday season, as is sadly true every year, many parents spent their first Christmas without their children. Naturally the prayers of the nation remain with the parents of the young children killed in Newtown, Conn. But also the parents of Trayvon Martin were spending their first Christmas without their son.

Recently Sybrina Fulton spoke with ESSENCE.com about her first holidays without Trayvon, her wish for justice in 2013, and her thoughts about Newtown. Her comments included:

“Trayvon would have turned 18 this coming February and would have been graduating from high school. He had just turned 17 a few days before he was killed. I remember how much he was looking forward to senior picture day. I won’t ever get a chance see those moments; to see his high school graduation picture, his prom pictures, his wedding pictures. I won’t get that experience. It’s still difficult to swallow because Trayvon had his whole life ahead of him. Seventeen years just seems so short to me, but I do thank God for the time that he did give me with him.”

Visit here to read Essence’s exclusive story.

http://northdallasgazette.com/2012/12/29/sybrina-fulton-wants-justice-for-her-son-trayvon-martin-in-2013/

Florida's Top Story In 2012: Trayvon Martin

By Rick Stone

http://wlrn.org/post/floridas-top-story-2012-trayvon-martin

Trayvon Martin death is Fla.'s story of the year

By MIKE SCHNEIDER
Associated Press

Published: Friday, December 28, 2012 at 7:30 a.m.
Last Modified: Friday, December 28, 2012 at 7:30 a.m.

http://www.newschief.com/article/20121228/APN/1212280551?p=1&tc=pg

Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton To Present Scholarship Award In Honor of Son Trayvon Martin

December 26, 2012

http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2012/12/26/tracy-martin-and-sybrina-fulton-to-present-scholarship-award-in-honor-of-son-trayvon-martin/

FBI Interview with Francis (Frank) Taaffe 5/2/12 Pg 2

Taaffe stated the community got "bad". He added he began to see more trash, speeders and children playing outside.

http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/discovery9/sa_oliver_taaffee.pdf

Say what?
I guess you know a community is is getting "bad" when children are playing "outside!"
Really???

The following information was obtained from the notes section from GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S phone:

"I have told you all everything that has transpired, do you really believe that I would ommit the fact that a narcotics officer guided me.......I called to appease my father, the attorney said not to make any comments as you did."

FBI/Singleton 5/15/12
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/discovery9/sa_oliver_singleton.pdf

"Santiago thought Singleton did a great job during the interview and did not see how ZIMMERMAN thought she guided him."

FBI/Santiago 5/21/12
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/discovery9/sa_oliver_santiago.pdf

KimmyK wrote:The following information was obtained from the notes section from GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S phone:

"I have told you all everything that has transpired, do you really believe that I would ommit the fact that a narcotics officer guided me.......I called to appease my father, the attorney said not to make any comments as you did."

FBI/Singleton 5/15/12
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/discovery9/sa_oliver_singleton.pdf

"Santiago thought Singleton did a great job during the interview and did not see how ZIMMERMAN thought she guided him."

FBI/Santiago 5/21/12
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/discovery9/sa_oliver_santiago.pdf

Am I reading that wrong? It doesn't read to me that Zimmerman thinks he was guided.

do you really believe that I would ommit the fact that a narcotics officer guided me

That sounds to me that if it had occurred he would had said something while he was telling "everything that transpired."

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Sybrina Fulton wants justice for her son Trayvon Martin in 2013

December 29, 2012 By NDG Staff

This holiday season, as is sadly true every year, many parents spent their first Christmas without their children. Naturally the prayers of the nation remain with the parents of the young children killed in Newtown, Conn. But also the parents of Trayvon Martin were spending their first Christmas without their son.

Recently Sybrina Fulton spoke with ESSENCE.com about her first holidays without Trayvon, her wish for justice in 2013, and her thoughts about Newtown. Her comments included:

“Trayvon would have turned 18 this coming February and would have been graduating from high school. He had just turned 17 a few days before he was killed. I remember how much he was looking forward to senior picture day. I won’t ever get a chance see those moments; to see his high school graduation picture, his prom pictures, his wedding pictures. I won’t get that experience. It’s still difficult to swallow because Trayvon had his whole life ahead of him. Seventeen years just seems so short to me, but I do thank God for the time that he did give me with him.”

Visit here to read Essence’s exclusive story.

http://northdallasgazette.com/2012/12/29/sybrina-fulton-wants-justice-for-her-son-trayvon-martin-in-2013/

She kind of contradicts herself from an earlier interview. This is from the Esquire Mag Interview with Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton. IMO, she was more realistic with Esquire.

He did hit some trouble in his teenage years. He skipped classes and got suspended a couple times. Tracy won't go into detail, says it was just regular teenage stuff, but Sybrina's caution is overridden by her disappointment. He didn't pass the FCAT, she says. The FCAT is Florida's big standardized test. If you don't pass, you don't graduate.

Read more: Trayvon Martin Family Interview - Trayvon Martin Aftermath - Esquire LINK

I can tell you the one thing that bothers me most about the Essence interview is the picture of Trayvon Martin that she is holding close to her. It makes me wonder why she/they used the photoshopped version that lightened his skin tone. The original is a very nice photo.

I admit that picture makes me crazy.** Back when OJ Simpson was being arrested for murder, TIME magazine darkened his skin tone to make him appear more sinister, IMO. ((It was on the cover of Newsweek with the correct shot but TIME magazine was a different story. IMO, it was a despicable action on behalf of TIME magazine and it warranted the outcry that followed.))

This is like the reverse. They lighten his skin to make him seem less sinister? I don't get it. It is like all the pictures we got of him much younger than his actual age. Why do that? Why hasn't just being Trayvon ever been good enough?

**Personal Side note:
I had a cousin that died of after a protracted illness. She was 26 yrs old. A beautiful young woman, IMO, but I am prejudiced. Her mother put all of these pictures in a CD montage of when she was 6-12 yrs old for the service. Just a few of her at her real age. That same question came to my mind. Why wasn't just being Laurie good enough? She has been dead for a decade now and, for the memorial in the paper, her mother used one of my favorite pictures of her taken a few months before she died. Progress.

DebFrmHell wrote:

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Sybrina Fulton wants justice for her son Trayvon Martin in 2013

December 29, 2012 By NDG Staff

This holiday season, as is sadly true every year, many parents spent their first Christmas without their children. Naturally the prayers of the nation remain with the parents of the young children killed in Newtown, Conn. But also the parents of Trayvon Martin were spending their first Christmas without their son.

Recently Sybrina Fulton spoke with ESSENCE.com about her first holidays without Trayvon, her wish for justice in 2013, and her thoughts about Newtown. Her comments included:

“Trayvon would have turned 18 this coming February and would have been graduating from high school. He had just turned 17 a few days before he was killed. I remember how much he was looking forward to senior picture day. I won’t ever get a chance see those moments; to see his high school graduation picture, his prom pictures, his wedding pictures. I won’t get that experience. It’s still difficult to swallow because Trayvon had his whole life ahead of him. Seventeen years just seems so short to me, but I do thank God for the time that he did give me with him.”

Visit here to read Essence’s exclusive story.

http://northdallasgazette.com/2012/12/29/sybrina-fulton-wants-justice-for-her-son-trayvon-martin-in-2013/

She kind of contradicts herself from an earlier interview. This is from the Esquire Mag Interview with Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton. IMO, she was more realistic with Esquire.

He did hit some trouble in his teenage years. He skipped classes and got suspended a couple times. Tracy won't go into detail, says it was just regular teenage stuff, but Sybrina's caution is overridden by her disappointment. He didn't pass the FCAT, she says. The FCAT is Florida's big standardized test. If you don't pass, you don't graduate.

Read more: Trayvon Martin Family Interview - Trayvon Martin Aftermath - Esquire LINK

I can tell you the one thing that bothers me most about the Essence interview is the picture of Trayvon Martin that she is holding close to her. It makes me wonder why she/they used the photoshopped version that lightened his skin tone. The original is a very nice photo.

I admit that picture makes me crazy.** Back when OJ Simpson was being arrested for murder, TIME magazine darkened his skin tone to make him appear more sinister, IMO. ((It was on the cover of Newsweek with the correct shot but TIME magazine was a different story. IMO, it was a despicable action on behalf of TIME magazine and it warranted the outcry that followed.))

This is like the reverse. They lighten his skin to make him seem less sinister? I don't get it. It is like all the pictures we got of him much younger than his actual age. Why do that? Why hasn't just being Trayvon ever been good enough?

**Personal Side note:
I had a cousin that died of after a protracted illness. She was 26 yrs old. A beautiful young woman, IMO, but I am prejudiced. Her mother put all of these pictures in a CD montage of when she was 6-12 yrs old for the service. Just a few of her at her real age. That same question came to my mind. Why wasn't just being Laurie good enough? She has been dead for a decade now and, for the memorial in the paper, her mother used one of my favorite pictures of her taken a few months before she died. Progress.

She is holding the picture of her dead son, the one where he appears wearing a hoodie, he was wearing a hoodie when he was fatally shot.



Prosecutors Release Images Of Trayvon Martin's Bloody Hoodie


Florida prosecutors on Thursday released hundreds of pages of reports on the death of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old shot by a Florida neighborhood watchman.

Some of the saddest evidence includes images of the teen's iconic hoodie and his bloody shirt.



http://www.businessinsider.com/trayvon-martin-hoodie-photos-2012-7?op=1

What does his skin color have to do with the feelings that she is expressing about her loss?

Have there ever been a scintilla of compassion or sympathy for this woman? Her son was no perfect, but then again, no one is. He was not a criminal, he never killed anyone. The dark and grim reality is that her life will never be the same again.

DebFrmHell wrote:

KimmyK wrote:The following information was obtained from the notes section from GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S phone:

"I have told you all everything that has transpired, do you really believe that I would ommit the fact that a narcotics officer guided me.......I called to appease my father, the attorney said not to make any comments as you did."

FBI/Singleton 5/15/12
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/discovery9/sa_oliver_singleton.pdf

"Santiago thought Singleton did a great job during the interview and did not see how ZIMMERMAN thought she guided him."

FBI/Santiago 5/21/12
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/discovery9/sa_oliver_santiago.pdf

Am I reading that wrong? It doesn't read to me that Zimmerman thinks he was guided.

do you really believe that I would ommit the fact that a narcotics officer guided me

That sounds to me that if it had occurred he would had said something while he was telling "everything that transpired."

IMO, sounds like GZ thought Singleton helped him, and Santiago said he didn't think so.

FBI reports of Singleton/Santiago, of what was in the notes on GZ's phone.

The following information was obtained from the notes section from GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S phone:
On the FBI report...(Singleton's)
do you really believe that I would ommit the fact that a narcotics officer guided me

Unless he meant 'admit', I take it GZ, IMO was telling someone that of course he told them Singleton helped him, he DID NOT omit-spelled incorrectly on FBI report-(ommit) the FACT that the narcotics officer (Singleton) helped him!

On FBI report...(Santiago's)
"Santiago thought Singleton did a great job during the interview and did not see how ZIMMERMAN thought she guided him."

First of all, Happy New Year 2013 to all who visit, read, and comment on this thread!

I’d like to say to all of you that I value ALL of the comments here, and truly feel glad that all who come here feel free to comment. This site and this thread have been open to all viewpoints, and though we sometimes differ and may be “rubbed” a little by opposing viewpoints, I can honestly say that opposing viewpoints have helped me to clarify what I think and believe in this case. I personally don’t want to be in a vacuum commenting with “only” those who agree with what I think. I am a better thinker because of those with whom I don’t agree, but continue to respect. That is the absolute best any of us can ever hope to achieve from such a forum, and I sincerely thank everyone here for sharing your thoughts. (And for doing your best to behave and be respectful!)

And as a moderator, I urge everyone to consider that each person here is a valuable member of our little community. As I read backwards, there are some recent instances of friction that make me feel sad and disappointed. We are all here because we are passionate about the circumstances of a case. We have that in common. A case involving REAL people, who could be our neighbors, friends, or family members. It is a positive testament to our e-society and e-culture that we who are strangers can come together over weeks, months, or years to share our opinions and thoughts together. We have come to know each other, and even when we disagree, we still trust the community enough to share our opposing thoughts. So even when we disagree, I hope each of us can find a place to celebrate that. Because these little communities of strangers is where tolerance and understanding starts. We are the tolerance we hope to see in the world. (End of introspective monologue!)

Thank you for sharing Sybrina’s comments in the Essence article. My heart aches for the baby she birthed and had such hopes for. Her pain from the absence of her son during the holidays this year is obvious. But I will be honest that when she compared her situation to the parents of the Sandy Hook Massacre, that my first impression is that the 2 situations are not at all similar or comparable. It is not fair or right to even MENTION them in the same sentence, imo. The way in which the Sandy Hook parents lost their 6 and 7 year old children is not at all the same, or rightly comparable to the situation with TM and GZ. Both are immensely tragic and heartbreaking. But the 2 situations are simply not comparable. I am very uncomfortable with those 2 situations being even mentioned in the same sentence. GZ and Adam Lanza are not comparable in either their lives, nor the circumstances in which they fired their guns.

Of course Sybrina and the Sandy Hook parents are both grieving their precious children, but they are grieving a completely different set of circumstances, IMO. Tracy Martin, in the article above, comes close to acknowledging the truth of his son’s serious difficulties socially and in school at the time of his death. Sybrina is still in complete public denial, imo, of her son’s serious difficulties immediately prior to his death, and which almost certainly (imo) contributed to what happened to cause his death. I can forgive Sybrina her denial, as she is his mother. Trayvon wasn’t perfect. Yes, he was a rebellious teen. He had a LOT of very serious problems, socially and academically, at the time of his tragic death. I ache for the teen he COULD HAVE been, with appropriate parental involvement in his life. I am sad for a future lost. But the elephant in the room is that his parents were not “parenting” him in a way that led to a safe and productive future, and a good outcome, imo. I am always sad when someone who has died is portrayed as someone they were not. I feel it is very disrespectful to their memory.

Trayvon was a teen with a lot of rebellion and problems. I can’t imagine that there is any situation with an 11th grader, with 3 suspensions in 6 months and dozens of absences, where he was “on time” to graduate, as Sybrina implies in the Essence article. The Esquire article says he failed a graduation exam. I think we will hear a lot more about the school problems when depositions and/ or trial occurs. That doesn’t mean he could not recover from that, and lead a productive life, but it is fantasy to pretend his problems simply didn’t exist, and his biggest issues were worring about future prom pics and senior pics. I will bet a large chunk of cash that Trayvon was NOT on track to graduate on time. My sincere opinion is he was very likely failing his entire 11th grade year. Add all that to what is known about his "social media" and circle of friends, and a true picture of this teen begins to develop. That helps all of us better understand his response to GZ's actions, imo.

Of course his mother will sanitize the truth from the media. He had a LOT of documented problems, that appeared to be ongoing (even escalating) and not resolving. Tracy and Sybrina didn’t avail themselves of any academic (state paid) options for at least the last suspension, nor did they withdraw him and make other arrangements. Their actions (imo) are those of parents “marking time” and shifting him to another home and waiting till the latest suspension was up. That doesn’t make him a lost cause, nor does it doom his future. But DOES explain a lot about how he responded to the situation, and how they parented. It is simply a tremendous shame that no one took a sincere interest in helping turn him around. I know it is very unpopular and will upset some to say so openly, but it sure seems to me that Sybrina and Tracy have much more interest in Trayvon and his image and reputation NOW than they did when he was still alive. I don’t respect the path they have chosen, for the most part.

Neither was George Zimmerman perfect. Both made mistakes. He also has a very checkered past. But I believe the law supports his actions in this case. I am baffled as to why each “side” (except for Sybrina) feels that one was completely blameless, and the other fully responsible. They both bear responsibility for what happened. IMO. I happen to believe the law, in this case, is mostly on the side of GZ in his response to the situation, than it is on TM’s actions. (And I fully know some don’t agree with me—that’s ok.)

Alessandra_Deux wrote:With regards to the evidence, we haven't seen everything yet, the documents that have been released by the court are heavily redacted, other documents were filed under seal. There is still an ongoing investigation, there might be a surprise or two in store.

Thank you Alessandra. Yet some seem to think they have ALL the facts. Some want to bring over others opinions as FACTS.