George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #8

art tart--
I am not going to box a kid in for the rest of his life based upon a few years of hs. He did nothing so outstanding other than, perhaps, disappoint his parents. So for two years he messed up, would you say? And you think that will color him for the next 90 years or so? I am going to give him room to grow and change.

Teens are full of themselves and full of rebellion. Strangely, one would think they WILL outgrow it prior to turning 25 years old or so. And if one is eligible to own a gun, I would think he would have a healthy respect for authority. Sadly, I do NOT see that respect in GZ or his lovely wife, Shellie.

Apply the same standards to the immature adult, GZ.
Why not box him in as the loser he IS?

" Not all children grow from infancy through their adolescent years without experiencing some bumps along the way. While every child is unique and special, sometimes they encounter emotions, feelings or behavior that cause problems in their lives and the lives of those around them. Families often worry when their child or teenager has difficulty coping with things, feels sad, can't sleep, gets involved with drug, or can't get along with family or friends. "

http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/facts_for_families

General drug stats:
http://www.teendrugabuse.us/teen_drug_use.html

Freckles - GZ isn't a rocket scientist and no one said he was, he made terrible choices but so did TM.

Freckles - whether TM would have become a productive citizen is anyone's guess and imo, not relevant as to the activies he was involved with at the time of his death.

art tart wrote:Freckles - I respectfully disagree with you and stand by my comment. It isn't important how many days a kid misses in elementary school as they can catch up with tutoring or their parent's working with them, but high school is another story. Sybrina said in the Essence Magazine article, can't remember which magazine bt I think that magazine that Trayvon had failed the test to graduate with his class. imo, it's really hard on any average student that misses 52-53 days of school and more days for suspensions. Trayvon was in trouble at school, that is a fact.

I am not branding Trayvon for his experiences, but, it does indicate the person Trayvon was, interested in street fighting, experimenting w/drugs, gold teeth, gansta culture, and found with a burglary tool and jewelry in which he could not give a believeable answer in one suspenion.

ABSOLUTELY no one has said that I have read that TM was deserving of his death, what has been stated is that TM was responsible for his actions and so is GZ, TM just didn't anticipate GZ having a gun. Trayvon is not the kid his parent's Handler's painted him out to be, why they didn't understand this would be part of this case is surprising to me.

It sounded a little that way to me, kind of like, 'Trayvon deserved what he got.'
I don't understand WHY, if GZ knew LE was on their way, he "had to shoot to save HIS life' so FAST???
IMO, his injuries didn't look too life threatening, not like he couldn't have made it another 5 minutes, JMO.
Then I really wonder, WHY did GZ leave his house so quickly after the shooting? (the next day?)
IF it was REALLY a case of GZ saving HIS life, why the need to FLEE so FAST after??
A guilty conscience, IDK?
At that point, the BP had no idea who GZ was, but then who knows, just makes me wonder, WHY?

KimmyK wrote:

art tart wrote:Freckles - I respectfully disagree with you and stand by my comment. It isn't important how many days a kid misses in elementary school as they can catch up with tutoring or their parent's working with them, but high school is another story. Sybrina said in the Essence Magazine article, can't remember which magazine bt I think that magazine that Trayvon had failed the test to graduate with his class. imo, it's really hard on any average student that misses 52-53 days of school and more days for suspensions. Trayvon was in trouble at school, that is a fact.

I am not branding Trayvon for his experiences, but, it does indicate the person Trayvon was, interested in street fighting, experimenting w/drugs, gold teeth, gansta culture, and found with a burglary tool and jewelry in which he could not give a believeable answer in one suspenion.

ABSOLUTELY no one has said that I have read that TM was deserving of his death, what has been stated is that TM was responsible for his actions and so is GZ, TM just didn't anticipate GZ having a gun. Trayvon is not the kid his parent's Handler's painted him out to be, why they didn't understand this would be part of this case is surprising to me.

It sounded a little that way to me, kind of like, 'Trayvon deserved what he got.'
I don't understand WHY, if GZ knew LE was on their way, he "had to shoot to save HIS life' so FAST???
IMO, his injuries didn't look too life threatening, not like he couldn't have made it another 5 minutes, JMO.
Then I really wonder, WHY did GZ leave his house so quickly after the shooting? (the next day?)
IF it was REALLY a case of GZ saving HIS life, why the need to FLEE so FAST after??
A guilty conscience, IDK?
At that point, the BP had no idea who GZ was, but then who knows, just makes me wonder, WHY?

Kimmy - then you misinterpreted the comment, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE has said TM deserved what he got.

Whether you think GZ wounds looked life threatening is your layman's interpretation and your opinion, you wern't getting the chit beat out of you, maybe you would feel differently if you had taken the beat down. What is important is the evidence/facts presented in Court, speculation is not going to be included in the trial, it can be discredited. Follow the known evidence.

TM is dead. He is the victim of whatever transpired that night.

Both GZ and TM had a right to walk down the sidewalk provided they were not in violation of laws, including stalking.

Prior to his death, TM went to the store.
He bought a bag of skittles.
He bought a can of Arizona tea.
He carried a cell phone with him.
Any violations you see?

GZ stated he did follow TM.
GZ stated believed TM was "getting away" like they "always do."
GZ stated TM punched him in the nose.
GZ stated TM cracked GZ' head against the sidewalk many times.

There is no evidence from the sidewalk of GZ' head meeting with it.
There is no evidence TM had a weapon to inflict any damage upon GZ.
There is no evidence TM had physical contact with GZ head.

There is evidence of some implement striking the back of GZ' head.
There is evidence the implement striking GZ' head left a pattern not normally associated with a sidewalk.

Now, regarding TM's school record:
IF it is a known fact teenagers who are suspended from school will be misfits for the rest of their lives, why bother with juvenile hall? Execute them now.
IF it is a known fact all adults incarcerated can NOT be "redeemed" why do we continue to lock them up?

TM was not expelled, exempted, nor was he excluded from school. He was simply suspended. We are not privy to the reason nor a defense or any other details. IMO, there is no need as it does not apply to this case.

Many a man has been unfaithful to his wife but as is often said, "I may have been unfaithful but that does not mean I killed her."

Just because TM may have had a few dust-offs, shown disrespect to authorities, and possibly had marijuana residue in a baggie upon him (and I don't know the situation) does not mean he violently attacked GZ with his bare hands overpowering the adult. Nor does it paint a bleak future for TM.

GZ, on the other hand, is not a teen. He has continued to show a disregard for authority. He has lied. Recently. He has had restraining orders against him and other severe charges. I will continue to question how GZ obtained a gun and a CCL with the ADULT record he has recently racked up.

" Follow the known evidence."

No one except GZ knows how he received his injuries or from whose hands. Dead men do not talk.

There is no evidence TM's hand ever touched GZ.

art tart wrote:

KimmyK wrote:

It sounded a little that way to me, kind of like, 'Trayvon deserved what he got.'
I don't understand WHY, if GZ knew LE was on their way, he "had to shoot to save HIS life' so FAST???
IMO, his injuries didn't look too life threatening, not like he couldn't have made it another 5 minutes, JMO.
Then I really wonder, WHY did GZ leave his house so quickly after the shooting? (the next day?)
IF it was REALLY a case of GZ saving HIS life, why the need to FLEE so FAST after??
A guilty conscience, IDK?
At that point, the BP had no idea who GZ was, but then who knows, just makes me wonder, WHY?

Kimmy - then you misinterpreted the comment, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE has said TM deserved what he got.

Whether you think GZ wounds looked life threatening is your layman's interpretation and your opinion, you wern't getting the chit beat out of you, maybe you would feel differently if you had taken the beat down. What is important is the evidence/facts presented in Court, speculation is not going to be included in the trial, it can be discredited. Follow the known evidence.

Thats how it seemed to come across..So, I stated..It sounded a little that way to me, kind of like,
Sorry, if I misinterpreted your intent.
Apparently, my layman's interpretation and my opinion, couldn't have been too far off, because EMS did not find it necessary to rush GZ by ambulance to the hospital, for his alleged 'head bashing-life threatening' injuries...and that is a FACT. JMO

art tart wrote:

Gizmo711 wrote:George Zimmerman has been charged with "SECOND DEGREE MURDER". I would assume that the prosecution is very well aware of what Zimmerman's account of the incident was. They too don't believe him.

I guess the trial will tell all.

The burden is solely on the State to prove the charges, it is one thing if the State doesn't believe something but they have to have the evidence to prove it, I remind you it is the State that has BELIEVED Crump/DeeDee about the age factor and who knows what else, imo, I can't imagine BDLR lied in open court as to DeeDee's age being 16, but then again BDLR could have chosen to lie. The State doesn't even know who threw the first punch and has admitted so.

imo, the State is going to have a hard time proving their case with the evidence that has been released thus far, the more evidence that is released, the weaker their case appears, the greater chance for reasonable doubt. The State could turn over damning evidence if they have it, and I question if they have much more, but when since depositions have to be done. Thus far, the State's case is underwhelming imo.

A lot more information will be gleaned from the hearing on the SYG/Self Defense case in the spring. I agree with many that think Judge N is going to kick the can down the road to a jury, she is an elected official. I have to wonder if MOM/West will appeal her decision if their evidence supports the self defense theory as they claim but Judge N rules against them.

Would the trial be postponed?

In self defense cases it is up to the defendant to prove his innocense. I believe I heard that Zimmerman is claiming "stand your ground", than the burden of proof is on Zimmerman. It's extremely hard to prove "self defense/stand your ground, when the facts show that Zimmerman was pursuing Trayvon. Just because one is losing the battle that he initiated doesn't allow one to pull a gun and shoot the other guy, that is NOT want self defense/stand your ground law is. Especially when the one pursued was unarmed.

Yes it will be an uphill battle for Zimmerman.

art tart wrote:Freckles - GZ isn't a rocket scientist and no one said he was, he made terrible choices but so did TM.

Freckles - whether TM would have become a productive citizen is anyone's guess and imo, not relevant as to the activies he was involved with at the time of his death.

It's not up to anyone to guess whether or not TM would have been a productive citizen or not. He had the right to live just like anyone of us. Whether or not TM would have been a productive citizen is not a question here. When 20 children were shot dead I don't remember hearing whether or not they would have grown to be productive citizens or not. Why would anyone think that Trayvon Martin would not have grown up to be a productive citizen?

He was an unarmed 17 year old walking to the local store and back, followed for no reason what so ever behind dark buildings and ended up dead. So whether he would have grown up to be the president or a street cleaner would not be anyones business but his. But he no longer has that privilidge to decide his life because his young life was cut short by a coward and wannabe hero.

Gee. I wonder what direction Zimmerman was going in with his life. Oh, school at tax payers expense, that neither he or his wife completed. Both being on unemployment together and milked it to the very last check. And now he wanted to use tax payers money for his own defense while sitting on more than 135,000. Turned in an outdated passport while advising his wife to hold onto the good one. Oh, I see, Zimmerman had a more productive live to live than a 17 year old still in school. Now that really makes sense (I just wonder whose sense does it make).

I want to see the hospital records showing that GZ was beat within an inch of his life, that he would have been a vegitable had he not shot Trayvon dead.

A bloody nose or even a broken nose and scratches on the back of his big head doesn't cut it with me. These are NOT life threatening injuries (not one of them). They didn't even require medical care that is why Zimmerman chose NOT to go the the ER and instead went to his OWN doctor the NEXT day. The defense is not going to have ANYTHING to back up Zimmermans claims other than photo's that indicate that he DIDN'T require any medical attention at the time and probably didn't require any medical attention the next day but Georgie had to cover his hind parts (as Georgie and family know how to do so well).

Freckles wrote:TM is dead. He is the victim of whatever transpired that night.

Both GZ and TM had a right to walk down the sidewalk provided they were not in violation of laws, including stalking.

Prior to his death, TM went to the store.
He bought a bag of skittles.
He bought a can of Arizona tea.
He carried a cell phone with him.
Any violations you see?

GZ stated he did follow TM.
GZ stated believed TM was "getting away" like they "always do."
GZ stated TM punched him in the nose.
GZ stated TM cracked GZ' head against the sidewalk many times.

There is no evidence from the sidewalk of GZ' head meeting with it.
There is no evidence TM had a weapon to inflict any damage upon GZ.
There is no evidence TM had physical contact with GZ head.

There is evidence of some implement striking the back of GZ' head.
There is evidence the implement striking GZ' head left a pattern not normally associated with a sidewalk.

Now, regarding TM's school record:
IF it is a known fact teenagers who are suspended from school will be misfits for the rest of their lives, why bother with juvenile hall? Execute them now.
IF it is a known fact all adults incarcerated can NOT be "redeemed" why do we continue to lock them up?

TM was not expelled, exempted, nor was he excluded from school. He was simply suspended. We are not privy to the reason nor a defense or any other details. IMO, there is no need as it does not apply to this case.

Many a man has been unfaithful to his wife but as is often said, "I may have been unfaithful but that does not mean I killed her."

Just because TM may have had a few dust-offs, shown disrespect to authorities, and possibly had marijuana residue in a baggie upon him (and I don't know the situation) does not mean he violently attacked GZ with his bare hands overpowering the adult. Nor does it paint a bleak future for TM.

GZ, on the other hand, is not a teen. He has continued to show a disregard for authority. He has lied. Recently. He has had restraining orders against him and other severe charges. I will continue to question how GZ obtained a gun and a CCL with the ADULT record he has recently racked up.

Well said, Martain had every right to be walking in that neighborhood. It was Geroge that thought he should be there and even if Martin did get a punch in why does he not have a right to defend himself from a man that had been following him in a car then on foot. You are also right on a bottom post that Dead men can't speak, so all we have is the word of George and I don't believe him.
Ya'll were also talking about the color picture vs the black and the picture at the police station. Well the first thing that got me about the color picture was how swollen his nose was then at the police station several hrs later his nose was not swollen at all. Dang he heals fast. I also notice that his face seemed slimmer then at the police station. I even showed the picture to my husband who wants to believe George and he could not get over the difference in the pictures. He was also amazed at how fast the swelling on his nose went down and he thought it look like a skinnier George. So I don't know if the picture is going to help them out to the jury because he believed it had been altered and he wants to believe George.

Freckles shared:

Now, regarding TM's school record:
IF it is a known fact teenagers who are suspended from school will be misfits for the rest of their lives, why bother with juvenile hall? Execute them now.
IF it is a known fact all adults incarcerated can NOT be "redeemed" why do we continue to lock them up?

Freckles - This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the circumstances of Trayvon's death about being a "misfit" as you continue to say and harp on. His school record has EVERYTHING to do with the young man he was and his behavior, you can continue to deny the facts. Most kids learn from one suspension from school, but Trayvon having 3 in 6 months is a pattern he established due to his behavior & breaking the rules, would he have been suspended again, changed schools again and again, ABSOLUTELY no one knows.

TM was not expelled, exempted, nor was he excluded from school. He was simply suspended. We are not privy to the reason nor a defense or any other details. IMO, there is no need as it does not apply to this case.

You seem to want to minimize Trayvon's suspensions from high school & despite your understanding of the significance, 3 suspensions in 6 months is a BIG deal, when you are suspended you aren't allowed to make up the work in the classroom from when you missed, a consequence of being suspended for your behavior. I have worked in High Schools, it is a BIG deal, Administrations usually keep an eye on the student's displaying behavior such as Trayvon, schools are trying to help those succeed that WANT to succeed, Trayvon made all the decisions they kept him in trouble. Then 52 days of not attending classroom instruction, it would have been difficult for Trayvon. Trayvon had a burglary tool and female jewelry in which the police have as they couldn't get a straight answer as to where they came from. You can BET if this jewlery and the jewelry tool BELONG to Tracy, he'd be screaming about that but he doesn't nor does Sybrina. Trayvon's behavior describes the young man he was. Feel free to discount the person Trayvon was, you will see at trial the relevance of this information. I worked in High Schools, all of this information has everything to do with Trayvon's future in school and being on the path to succeed. Could he have changed? Maybe or maybe not, the decision would have been Trayvon's.

Again, woulda, coulda, shoulda, doesn't have relevance on the tragedy, the behavior of TM and GZ does. Continue to question about GZ having a gun, if ANYTHING illegal was done with GZ having a gun, don't you sincerely believe there would have been other charges from Corey? imo, a non issue since no charges were brought.

I personally look at TM's suspensions, attendance record, fighting, gangsta style and the burglary tool ONLY to evaluate this young boys mindset. What his learned behaviors were at age 17. I do not use these behaviors to speculate what TM might have grown to be. In my opinion, his recent behavior only helps in deducing how TM may have approached the situation with GZ. I do not use it to judge TM or what his future may have held.

Lash wrote:I personally look at TM's suspensions, attendance record, fighting, gangsta style and the burglary tool ONLY to evaluate this young boys mindset. What his learned behaviors were at age 17. I do not use these behaviors to speculate what TM might have grown to be. In my opinion, his recent behavior only helps in deducing how TM may have approached the situation with GZ. I do not use it to judge TM or what his future may have held.

Lash- you hit the nail on the head. This information is what the Defense is going to use to describe the young man Trayvon was and how it might have been a factor in the decisioins TM made, I too don't use the information to judge TM's future.

Freckles wrote:TM is dead. He is the victim of whatever transpired that night.

Both GZ and TM had a right to walk down the sidewalk provided they were not in violation of laws, including stalking.

Prior to his death, TM went to the store.
He bought a bag of skittles.
He bought a can of Arizona tea.
He carried a cell phone with him.
Any violations you see?

GZ stated he did follow TM.
GZ stated believed TM was "getting away" like they "always do."
GZ stated TM punched him in the nose.
GZ stated TM cracked GZ' head against the sidewalk many times.

There is no evidence from the sidewalk of GZ' head meeting with it.
There is no evidence TM had a weapon to inflict any damage upon GZ.
There is no evidence TM had physical contact with GZ head.

There is evidence of some implement striking the back of GZ' head.
There is evidence the implement striking GZ' head left a pattern not normally associated with a sidewalk.

Now, regarding TM's school record:
IF it is a known fact teenagers who are suspended from school will be misfits for the rest of their lives, why bother with juvenile hall? Execute them now.
IF it is a known fact all adults incarcerated can NOT be "redeemed" why do we continue to lock them up?

TM was not expelled, exempted, nor was he excluded from school. He was simply suspended. We are not privy to the reason nor a defense or any other details. IMO, there is no need as it does not apply to this case.

Many a man has been unfaithful to his wife but as is often said, "I may have been unfaithful but that does not mean I killed her."

Just because TM may have had a few dust-offs, shown disrespect to authorities, and possibly had marijuana residue in a baggie upon him (and I don't know the situation) does not mean he violently attacked GZ with his bare hands overpowering the adult. Nor does it paint a bleak future for TM.

GZ, on the other hand, is not a teen. He has continued to show a disregard for authority. He has lied. Recently. He has had restraining orders against him and other severe charges. I will continue to question how GZ obtained a gun and a CCL with the ADULT record he has recently racked up.

Trayvon's suspensions are irrelevant to Zimmerman's defense, the fact that Zimmerman's lawyer can subpoena Trayvon's school records doesn't mean that he can establish a pattern of violent behavior, Trayvon was not suspended for hitting another boy at school, or for assaulting a teacher, his school suspensions don't amount to aggressive or criminal behavior. Zimmerman on the other hand.......

I am not privy to the current language of teens in Florida... that being said .... I really don't believe that TM would have called GZ "homie" seems like it may not be the language used today... fits more with the styling of the word "punks" which up here is definitely not part of the language used by people of TM's age.

Janespeaks
Published on Jun 28, 2012


At the 6:44 mark you can heard the following:


Serino: Do you know that voice in the background?

Zimmerman: No Sir

Serino: That's you

Serino: Can you hear yourself?

Zimmerman: It doesn’t even sound like me


Serino moves into asking Zimmerman to tell him when during the recorded call Zimmerman was being smothered (suffocated), then Serino says, "That's you yelling for help"

Zimmerman claimed that prior to the shooting, Trayvon had his hands on his mouth and his nose.......he was suffocating him.

Serino: Do you recall at what point the suffocation happened?

There is more........

Serino told witnesses that Zimmerman was the person they heard screaming for help.

justanopinion wrote:I am not privy to the current language of teens in Florida... that being said .... I really don't believe that TM would have called GZ "homie" seems like it may not be the language used today... fits more with the styling of the word "punks" which up here is definitely not part of the language used by people of TM's age.

Your right "homey" is probably the language of George Zimmerman back sometime ago.

No matter what took place that dreadful night, the FACT remains that Trayvon Martin was minding his own business, just going to the store for treats. Zimmerman would NEVER have followed him or approached him had he not had that loaded gun in his hand. Therefore it's pretty obvious that George started the entire altercation that led to TM's death.

TM's school records (that I never heard about three suspensions etc) had nothing at all to do with him being followed and murdered. In Florida, when a school age child reaches the age of 16 (sixteen) and they are getting into trouble they are thrown out of school. Seeing as TM was not thrown out of school and only suspended the one time, that would not have led up to him being kicked out of school. Obviously the school felt he was holding his grades up and and doing good or they would have thrown him out. But even had he been thrown out of school, even had he been in small trouble or big trouble, that still does not give a George Zimmerman the right to wipe his life out because he THOUGHT her was up to no good.

GZ is nothing more than a wannabe cop, a wannabe hero, a liar and a murderer. Zimmerman even states on his facebook that some of his "HOMIES" had taken a rap for him. (real nice guy to put a gun in his hands).

George is going down for this and he very well knows it, which is why he wants to run.

Removed by poster.

Removed by poster.

art tart wrote:

Lash wrote:I personally look at TM's suspensions, attendance record, fighting, gangsta style and the burglary tool ONLY to evaluate this young boys mindset. What his learned behaviors were at age 17. I do not use these behaviors to speculate what TM might have grown to be. In my opinion, his recent behavior only helps in deducing how TM may have approached the situation with GZ. I do not use it to judge TM or what his future may have held.

Lash- you hit the nail on the head. This information is what the Defense is going to use to describe the young man Trayvon was and how it might have been a factor in the decisioins TM made, I too don't use the information to judge TM's future.

I agree. No one here has ever said or implied that TM "deserved" to be killed. And no one has said his future was a factor in what happened. His PRESENT situation and state of mind, and recent past, is as relevant as GZ's is, precisely because he was NOT randomly gunned down from afar. He was shot while engaged in an assault against GZ, that every bit of evidence shows TM initiated. It simply doesn't matter that GZ was creepy and looked at him weird and followed him-- none of that is ENOUGH provocation to initiate a physical assault and say the aggressor is justified in throwing the first punches.

TM was NOT merely an innocent bystander gunned down by a murderous freak, like so many of the tragedies we have endured lately. None of us have the right to "preemptively" assault someone physically because we think they are creepy, or looking at us in an odd manner. TM did not have the LEGAL right to throw the first punch-- he had not been assaulted in any way. Perhaps you could argue he was "menaced" by the creepy GZ-- but that STILL DOES NOT give TM the LEGAL right to initiate a physical confrontation. Even if someone is following us in a menacing manner, the law does not give any of us the right to assault first, and ask questions later, EXCEPT when in the comfort and safety of our own home (castle doctrine).

A person with a CCW permit cannot pull out a gun and shoot someone outside their home because they THINK they might harm them. Plenty of abused women have gone to prison because they preemptively shot or killed their abusers at a time in which they were not being abused. GZ called police, and followed TM. Those are facts not in dispute. He was not, imo, chasing down TM. He WAS trying to keep him in sight, which is what the dispatcher actually advised him to do. She meant to stay in place and watch, but stupid GZ probably will say he interpreted that to mean "follow him and keep him in sight." That is STILL not any evidence of depraved mind or malice, for pete's sake!

There is no question in my mind that GZ felt more emboldened to follow TM because he had a concealed weapon. But I also have seen not a shred of evidence that says to me GZ "intended" to catch and restrain TM, or shoot him, or harm him in any way. There had been a slew of crimes at that complex recently, and GZ WAS definitely hyper vigilant. That isn't evidence of malice either. There IS evidence he intended to keep TM in sight, and there is indisputable evidence he called police. There is no evidence he had his gun drawn before the immediate moment when he shot TM, who was seen violently assaulting GZ. If there had been even 2-3 feet of distance between them, I'd feel very differently about GZ shooting TM. But I am just not persuaded that being creepy and looking at someone in an odd way, calling police, and following them is enough to say someone's behavior rose to the level of malice needed for second degree murder charges.

All I know is, the voir dire for this jury (if it gets to a jury trial, which I think it will), will be VERY interesting. The case will be won or lost, absolutely, in the voir dire process. The trial almost doesn't matter at this point.

TM's present state of mind, his activities, his school records, his reason for being hours from home in the dark alone in his father's GF's apartment complex-- all of that is relevant because he was not just a bystander casually killed. If TM was walking on the sidewalk, and GZ pulled up in his truck and shot him, then I'd say that none of TM's background was relevant to the shooting. But that is NOT what happened. TM was actively engaged in a confrontation, and was the aggressor. GZ's background, state of mind, and all of his issues are also relevant. TM didn't have the "right" to attack GZ (who was NOT assaulting him), and "get in a few punches". He clearly "got away" and came back to engage in a physical confrontation. It bothers me a lot that there are people who think this is okay. This mindset will only lead to more violence in our society.

It is terribly sad that TM chose to initiate a physical confrontation instead of staying away from the creepy GZ. It's sad TM didn't call 911 to report a creepy guy following him, and continue to stay away from him. I wish he had called 911, and gone inside to protect the other teen from the creepy guy outside. But that isn't what he did. Many teen boys are primed to fight, from their youth, hormones, and yes, their background and social circumstances. I have no doubt TM was pissed at the creepy guy following him. He may have been scared, but his actions no not indicate fear to me. Everything I have seen and read leads me to believe TM was angry and going to teach the creepy GZ a lesson with a beatdown. Unfortunately, he didn't consider that the creepy guy might have a gun and defend himself with it.

Freckles wrote:art tart--- clipped---

" Trayvon had a burglary tool and female jewelry in which the police have as they couldn't get a straight answer as to where they came from. You can BET if this jewlery and the jewelry tool BELONG to Tracy, he'd be screaming about that but he doesn't nor does Sybrina. "

I promise you, this is the first I have heard of TM having a "burglary tool kit." And, apparently, you state he also had jewelry of undetermined origin. I would like to know where you found this information? Was it on him at the time of his death?

Most curious to hear of this at this time.

Freckles, I don't have a link for this right now. But the story of the jewelry is that TM was being disciplined for being caught on security camera defacing school property with graffiti. In the process of searching his backpack, they discovered tools (large screwdrivers and such) that police say are commonly used in break ins. He also had a large amount of women's jewelry in the backpack. I think this was the first suspension of the school year-- and likely the school (imo) was trying to cut him a break and give him a chance to straighten up by NOT calling police in and pressing charges. Since I don't have a link, you are free to disregard the above as rumor, but it's been out on the web for many, many months.

art tart wrote:Again, woulda, coulda, shoulda, doesn't have relevance on the tragedy, the behavior of TM and GZ does. Continue to question about GZ having a gun, if ANYTHING illegal was done with GZ having a gun, don't you sincerely believe there would have been other charges from Corey? imo, a non issue since no charges were brought.

Respectfully snipped, and BBM for relevance.

I fully expect Angela Corey to bring additional charges. She has a pattern of doing this as a case unfolds over time, when the case is controversial, or if a defendant turns down a plea (vindictive charges), or if the state's case is weak/ weakened. I think it's very likely she will bring additional charges around the time of the SYG hearing.

And if, as some have speculated, the SYG ruling is appealed, I think she will almost certainly bring additional charges for "something" at that time. To ensure GZ goes down for "something". She is, imo, an extremely vindictive prosecutor. I think her vindictiveness rises to the level of malicious, but that's just my opinion. I don't respect the way she has done her job, in a number of the cases I've researched where she was prosecutor. I don't see her as an honorable person acting on the side of right and just. JMO.

Removed by poster.

Removed by poster.

art tart wrote:
You seem to want to minimize Trayvon's suspensions from high school & despite your understanding of the significance, 3 suspensions in 6 months is a BIG deal, when you are suspended you aren't allowed to make up the work in the classroom from when you missed, a consequence of being suspended for your behavior. I have worked in High Schools, it is a BIG deal, Administrations usually keep an eye on the student's displaying behavior such as Trayvon, schools are trying to help those succeed that WANT to succeed, Trayvon made all the decisions they kept him in trouble. Then 52 days of not attending classroom instruction, it would have been difficult for Trayvon. Trayvon had a burglary tool and female jewelry in which the police have as they couldn't get a straight answer as to where they came from. You can BET if this jewlery and the jewelry tool BELONG to Tracy, he'd be screaming about that but he doesn't nor does Sybrina. Trayvon's behavior describes the young man he was. Feel free to discount the person Trayvon was, you will see at trial the relevance of this information. I worked in High Schools, all of this information has everything to do with Trayvon's future in school and being on the path to succeed. Could he have changed? Maybe or maybe not, the decision would have been Trayvon's.

Bold in blue above for relevance. Actually, the Krop high school website does allow students on "outdoor" suspension (out of school suspension, versus in school suspension) to make up the academic work. It is the student's responsibility to contact all of their teachers to get the work. Teachers are not required to make special accomodations for suspended students, according to the Krop handbook. Students who have been suspended for 10 days are not eligible for participation in after school activities (sports, etc) for the remainder of the school year.

Edited to add the link:
http://74.53.27.98/~mkhscom/Information%20Files/Code%20of%20Student%20Conduct/Code%20of%20Student%20Conduct.pdf

http://74.53.27.98/~mkhscom/Students.htm

And yes, I agree that any 11th grader with 3 suspensions in one school year is in a world of hurt, academically and behaviorally. I know some folks don't agree with that. But 3 suspensions is a very big deal, and definitely impacts things like college applications. Formal behavior issues like suspensions have to be addressed in college applications. This includes things like references from teachers and administrators that the student made mistakes, but turned themselves around and were a good student from that point on, essays from the student on what they learned from the experience, etc. If a student DOES turn themselves around, many schools will give them a chance. But if the behavior pattern seems to repeat, even with good grades, a student has limited opportunities for college until they can show they have rehabilitated the behavior. I have sat on admissions committees for graduate schools at 2 universities, and believe me, they do go back years to look at criminal records and school behavioral records, and potential students have a lot of "splaining" to do with issues in their background.

Freckles wrote:

KZ wrote:

Freckles, I don't have a link for this right now. But the story of the jewelry is that TM was being disciplined for being caught on security camera defacing school property with graffiti. In the process of searching his backpack, they discovered tools (large screwdrivers and such) that police say are commonly used in break ins. He also had a large amount of women's jewelry in the backpack. I think this was the first suspension of the school year-- and likely the school (imo) was trying to cut him a break and give him a chance to straighten up by NOT calling police in and pressing charges. Since I don't have a link, you are free to disregard the above as rumor, but it's been out on the web for many, many months.

Why was TM suspended only on the graffiti charge? Surely, if he had burglary tools and stolen property he could have been prosecuted by the police on larger charges.
Why was a PD record not established for defacing public property?

This gets stranger.

My best guess is that it may have been his first serious behavior problem, so perhaps they were trying to give him a chance to rehabilitate by not pressing charges, since they may have not been able to determine where the jewelry came from. But that is only a guess. He was new at this school at the beginning of the 2011-12 school year, IIRC.

Freckles wrote:*** Bumping this forward from a page or two ago.
This might possibly offer an explanation as to why GZ chose to take the actions he did that fatal night. Most of us would not tail someone in a car let alone on foot. What was going on? GZ has painted himself as an aware, conscience, and considerate neighbor performing a voluntary and lonely duty protecting his neighborhood. Was he simply obsessed, over-run with fear/concern that night anyone could have died? Perhaps, a man or a woman walking home from a bus stop?

IMO, GZ may have been influenced by this:

Freckles wrote:George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting
April 25, 2012

Clipped--

" EMMANUEL BURGESS - SETTING THE STAGE

On February 2, 2012, Zimmerman placed a call to Sanford police after spotting a young black man he recognized peering into the windows of a neighbor's empty home, according to several friends and neighbors.

"I don't know what he's doing. I don't want to approach him, personally," Zimmerman said in the call, which was recorded. The dispatcher advised him that a patrol car was on the way. By the time police arrived, according to the dispatch report, the suspect had fled.

On February 6, the home of another Twin Lakes resident, Tatiana Demeacis, was burglarized. Two roofers working directly across the street said they saw two African-American men lingering in the yard at the time of the break-in. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. One of the roofers called police the next day after spotting one of the suspects among a group of male teenagers, three black and one white, on bicycles.

Police found Demeacis's laptop in the backpack of 18-year-old Emmanuel Burgess, police reports show, and charged him with dealing in stolen property. Burgess was the same man Zimmerman had spotted on February 2.

Burgess had committed a series of burglaries on the other side of town in 2008 and 2009, pleaded guilty to several, and spent all of 2010 incarcerated in a juvenile facility, his attorney said. He is now in jail on parole violations."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews

--- Committing the crimes are teens and they are locals:
" One of the roofers called police the next day after spotting one of the suspects among a group of male teenagers, three black and one white, on bicycles."

I posted this article and I absolutely agree this is why GZ chose to take the actions he did that fatal night. In my opinion, the recent crime in the area caused GZ to be hyper vigilant, self aware and overly conscience of his surroundings. He was concerned for his own family and neighbors. Helping our neighbors, is this not the right thing to do? Help thy neighbor. We hear so much about how our society no longer cares for their neighbor and how our society is consumed with only themselves. In my opinion, GZ was looking out for his fellow neighbors. That is admirable. He put his neighbors before himself, but most people do not see this action as admirable. When I say this action, I mean the concern for his neighbors. Why is that? GZ called NEN to report someone he thought was suspicious. LE officers will tell you it is better to report than ignore suspicious activity. In my opinion, had the person GZ was following ended up being a thug criminal with burglary tools and a weapon, many would recognize GZ as an unselfish admirable citizen. The CCW permit would not be hailed as an unnecessary evil. He may have prevented a rape and the eyes of the world would have a whole different perspective of weapon permits and GZ.

By the way, Tracy and Sybrina definitely had other options for Trayvon during the suspension, to keep him in an academic setting. Page 43 of the pdf handbook linked above lists the opportunity for attending a Diversion Center for supervised academic instruction during the outdoor suspension time period. Attendance is optional. Apparently, Tracy and Sybrina opted out of this.

The handbook also make it abundantly clear that outdoor suspension is a very serious disciplinary measure at Krop HS, and is only applied when other options (such as indoor suspension, alternative school, etc) have been exhausted.

Krop takes discipline and academic performance very seriously, from the detail in their handbook (far more detailed than our local HS handbook). I think I read that Sybrina said she moved him to this school because it had such a good reputation. Trayvon must have had a lot of difficulty adjusting to the new school, from what we know of his disciplinary problems.

More info on suspension policy and academic make up work at Krop HS in the "attendance" section (page 3):

http://74.53.27.98/~mkhscom/Information%20Files/Attendance-Tardy-Policies.pdf

IF...George WAS trying to detain Trayvon,
(Serino mentions a witness to that in one of the recordings),
AND
IF... George did reach into his pocket for his cellphone,
(as GZ stated in one of his many versions of what happened)
IMO, that warrants enough fear for Trayvon to throw a punch in self-defense.
Especially if GZ never introduced himself as NW 'Captain' to Trayvon
(which GZ never makes claim to in none of his many versions as well)
Although, that is my just opinion...

KimmyK wrote:IF...George WAS trying to detain Trayvon,
(Serino mentions a witness to that in one of the recordings),
AND
IF... George did reach into his pocket for his cellphone,
(as GZ stated in one of his many versions of what happened)
IMO, that warrants enough fear for Trayvon to throw a punch in self-defense.
Especially if GZ never introduced himself as NW 'Captain' to Trayvon
(which GZ never makes claim to in none of his many versions as well)
Although, that is my just opinion...

Kimmy - Trayvon did not have the right to throw the first punch, regardless, he too didn't have the right to beat the chit out of GZ.

If you trully follow the evidence, you will see imo as KZ has laid out, the chain of events that lead to the altercation, KZ has also pointed out more than once that GZ didn't have to wait to lose consciousness before he fired his gun.

It seems imo a lot of things are being brought up that have no relevance to the case such as Trayvon's future. Opinions about GZ's injuries will be argued in Court and aren't going to be decided arguing about it on a blog, the pictures speak for themselves. I have no doubt MOM/West have every bit of the medical information for their case.

art tart wrote:

KimmyK wrote:IF...George WAS trying to detain Trayvon,
(Serino mentions a witness to that in one of the recordings),
AND
IF... George did reach into his pocket for his cellphone,
(as GZ stated in one of his many versions of what happened)
IMO, that warrants enough fear for Trayvon to throw a punch in self-defense.
Especially if GZ never introduced himself as NW 'Captain' to Trayvon
(which GZ never makes claim to in none of his many versions as well)
Although, that is my just opinion...

Kimmy - Trayvon did not have the right to throw the first punch, regardless, he too didn't have the right to beat the chit out of GZ.

If you trully follow the evidence, you will see imo as KZ has laid out, the chain of events that lead to the altercation, KZ has also pointed out more than once that GZ didn't have to wait to lose consciousness before he fired his gun.

It seems imo a lot of things are being brought up that have no relevance to the case such as Trayvon's future. Opinions about GZ's injuries will be argued in Court and aren't going to be decided arguing about it on a blog, the pictures speak for themselves. I have no doubt MOM/West have every bit of the medical information for their case.

So then are you saying GZ had the RIGHT to detain Trayvon, as a witness may have stated (per Serino?)

IMO, the evidence seems to point that Trayvon was possibly chased AWAY from BG's house....
Not sure what witness stated it, but IIRC, a flashlight and two were seen running TOWARD the "T"
which seems to point that the altercation never started 'at' the T as GZ stated. JMO

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Lash wrote:

BBM - Thank you Alessandra. I have heard these tapes many times. I have mostly refrained from commenting on this thread, but I do read.

Respectfully, none of us know how long GZ had his nose and mouth covered by TM nor exactly when during the altercation this happened. After experiencing an altercation and shooting a young man, I'm not sure GZ could tell us exactly when either. Shock plays a big part in remembering the events of what happened.

Have you ever listened to your own voice on audio and thought is that me? This is what I sound like? Most people have not experienced hearing themselves on audio screaming for help such as in this situation. I tend to believe GZ was merely remarking on how he sounded in the audio.

Hi Lash,

I have listened and watched all the audio and video recordings of Zimmerman's interviews and I'm totally convinced that he did not kill Trayvon in self defense, of course that is his claim, but I don't believe Zimmerman's ever changing stories, they are plagued by inconsistencies and contradictions.

Zimmerman was not attacked by Trayvon by the "T" intersection, as he has claimed, in the reenactment video he shows the investigators the "exact" area where he supposedly saw Trayvon and was allegedly approached by him, at that particular point he had already abandoned the theory that "Trayvon jumped out from the bushes" and attacked him from behind. There were no bushes in that area.

Travon's body was about 35 yards from where Zimmerman claimed the attacked occurred and he had to kill him "in self defense because he was in fear for his life". Zimmerman didn't want to place himself one inch away from the "T", because if he would have admitted that he followed Trayvon further south behind the townhouses, it would had been a significant blow to the theory that he was acting in self defense when he killed the unarmed teenager.



The link to this video was originally posted by KimmyK.

With respect to the recording of the 911 call where the screams can be heard, there is also a sense of movement, the voice of the person asking for help sounded distant, it got louder and louder as the call progressed, 45 seconds into the call, a gunshot was heard. During those 45 seconds the screams were continuous, uninterrupted, they stopped when the gunshot was fired.

Zimmerman wants us to believe that he was attacked by Trayvon and he couldn't defend himself, not even throw a punch, because he was overpowered, paralyzed by fear, totally rendered defenseless. Zimmerman worked as a bouncer for two different agencies providing security for illegal parties between 2001 and 2005. And, he has a history of violence.

"The source said Zimmerman, who made between $50 and $100 a night, was let go in 2005. “He had a temper and he became a liability." - NY Daily News

Bumping Video...Regarding "Evidence"
Thanks Alessandra! I don't know how to post video's, only links!

KimmyK wrote:IF...George WAS trying to detain Trayvon,
(Serino mentions a witness to that in one of the recordings),
AND
IF... George did reach into his pocket for his cellphone,
(as GZ stated in one of his many versions of what happened)
IMO, that warrants enough fear for Trayvon to throw a punch in self-defense.
Especially if GZ never introduced himself as NW 'Captain' to Trayvon
(which GZ never makes claim to in none of his many versions as well)
Although, that is my just opinion...

If Zimmerman was trying to detain Trayvon, Trayvon had all the rights in the world to defend himself against unlawful restrain.

Serino said that Zimmerman had "a little hero complex". I believe Zimmerman tried to physically restrain Trayvon.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

KimmyK wrote:IF...George WAS trying to detain Trayvon,
(Serino mentions a witness to that in one of the recordings),
AND
IF... George did reach into his pocket for his cellphone,
(as GZ stated in one of his many versions of what happened)
IMO, that warrants enough fear for Trayvon to throw a punch in self-defense.
Especially if GZ never introduced himself as NW 'Captain' to Trayvon
(which GZ never makes claim to in none of his many versions as well)
Although, that is my just opinion...

If Zimmerman was trying to detain Trayvon, Trayvon had all the rights in the world to defend himself against unlawful restrain.

Serino said that Zimmerman had "a little hero complex". I believe Zimmerman tried to physically restrain Trayvon.

IF they were moving AWAY from BG's house, it looks like GZ 'hunted' down Trayvon,
(which GZ admits following, tells 911- call me when ya get here...)
intercepted him somewhere by BG's, confronts Trayvon, starts an altercation and then kills him.
Second Degree, now it makes sense why Serino's first two drafts were for Second Degree Murder.

Also explains WHY Serino hired Baez instead of using SPD's attorney, he was going against them. IMO
There is WAY more to this than I think we will ever know. IMO

I also read the DOJ or FBI never interviewed the Middle Eastern man that GZ worked with and tormented. (No link, sorry) Draw your own conclusion there...
But that's another story...IMO

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

KimmyK wrote:IF...George WAS trying to detain Trayvon,
(Serino mentions a witness to that in one of the recordings),
AND
IF... George did reach into his pocket for his cellphone,
(as GZ stated in one of his many versions of what happened)
IMO, that warrants enough fear for Trayvon to throw a punch in self-defense.
Especially if GZ never introduced himself as NW 'Captain' to Trayvon
(which GZ never makes claim to in none of his many versions as well)
Although, that is my just opinion...

If Zimmerman was trying to detain Trayvon, Trayvon had all the rights in the world to defend himself against unlawful restrain.

Serino said that Zimmerman had "a little hero complex". I believe Zimmerman tried to physically restrain Trayvon.

IF they were moving AWAY from BG's house, it looks like GZ 'hunted' down Trayvon,
(which GZ admits following, tells 911- call me when ya get here...)
intercepted him somewhere by BG's, confronts Trayvon, starts an altercation and then kills him.
Second Degree, now it makes sense why Serino's first two drafts were for Second Degree Murder.

Also explains WHY Serino hired Baez instead of using SPD's attorney, he was going against them. IMO
There is WAY more to this than I think we will ever know. IMO

I also read the DOJ or FBI never interviewed the Middle Eastern man that GZ worked with and tormented. (No link, sorry) Draw your own conclusion there...
But that's another story...IMO

Oops Sorry! Double Post!

Removed by poster.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

KimmyK wrote:IF...George WAS trying to detain Trayvon,
(Serino mentions a witness to that in one of the recordings),
AND
IF... George did reach into his pocket for his cellphone,
(as GZ stated in one of his many versions of what happened)
IMO, that warrants enough fear for Trayvon to throw a punch in self-defense.
Especially if GZ never introduced himself as NW 'Captain' to Trayvon
(which GZ never makes claim to in none of his many versions as well)
Although, that is my just opinion...

If Zimmerman was trying to detain Trayvon, Trayvon had all the rights in the world to defend himself against unlawful restrain.

Serino said that Zimmerman had "a little hero complex". I believe Zimmerman tried to physically restrain Trayvon.

BBM-
I think you are right Alessandra.
Then Second Degree Murder IMO, would be the CORRECT charge.
Also, IMO, you can't START a fight, begin losing, (as per photo's?)
and then bring out your gun and shoot...
And then try to claim self-defense...JMO

Removed by poster.

Freckles wrote:

KZ wrote:clipped---

My best guess is that it may have been his first serious behavior problem, so perhaps they were trying to give him a chance to rehabilitate by not pressing charges, since they may have not been able to determine where the jewelry came from. But that is only a guess. He was new at this school at the beginning of the 2011-12 school year, IIRC.

If he was new at the school that year, it may explain a poor adjustment, an acting out, etc. Not justify it, just explain it.

Had the family moved so he was attending a new school OR had he been expelled from another school and this was an option taken to enroll him at this new school?

Freckles - NO the family hadn't moved, Sybrina in fact put Trayvon in a school further from their home. You continue to try to rationalize the facts or try to make excuses for Trayvon's behavior. Trayvon possibly could have been expelled from his previous school as it is a pain for working parent's to deal with constant problems at school with their kid & not a convenience for Sybrina to put him in a school further from their home.... The fact is, Trayvon was a troubled young man.

imo, Trayvon could have well had problems at the previous school and Sybrina tried to expose Trayvon to a new peer group, if that were the case, it didn't work. I guess this will come out in the deposition MOM/West do on Sybrina.

KimmyK wrote:

art tart wrote:

Kimmy - Trayvon did not have the right to throw the first punch, regardless, he too didn't have the right to beat the chit out of GZ.

If you trully follow the evidence, you will see imo as KZ has laid out, the chain of events that lead to the altercation, KZ has also pointed out more than once that GZ didn't have to wait to lose consciousness before he fired his gun.

It seems imo a lot of things are being brought up that have no relevance to the case such as Trayvon's future. Opinions about GZ's injuries will be argued in Court and aren't going to be decided arguing about it on a blog, the pictures speak for themselves. I have no doubt MOM/West have every bit of the medical information for their case.

So then are you saying GZ had the RIGHT to detain Trayvon, as a witness may have stated (per Serino?)

IMO, the evidence seems to point that Trayvon was possibly chased AWAY from BG's house....
Not sure what witness stated it, but IIRC, a flashlight and two were seen running TOWARD the "T"
which seems to point that the altercation never started 'at' the T as GZ stated. JMO

Serino said "believe!" BELIEVE is not a fact BUT an opinion. I do not believe GZ tried to detain someone 5 to 6 inches taller than he was. I do not believe your theory as to what happened, the evidence doesn't support it. How credible was the witness, is she shades of DeeDee? If the witness were credible Serino would have said: "GZ DETAINED Trayvon." It doesn't say that anywhere.

KZ wrote:

art tart wrote:Again, woulda, coulda, shoulda, doesn't have relevance on the tragedy, the behavior of TM and GZ does. Continue to question about GZ having a gun, if ANYTHING illegal was done with GZ having a gun, don't you sincerely believe there would have been other charges from Corey? imo, a non issue since no charges were brought.

Respectfully snipped, and BBM for relevance.

I fully expect Angela Corey to bring additional charges. She has a pattern of doing this as a case unfolds over time, when the case is controversial, or if a defendant turns down a plea (vindictive charges), or if the state's case is weak/ weakened. I think it's very likely she will bring additional charges around the time of the SYG hearing.

And if, as some have speculated, the SYG ruling is appealed, I think she will almost certainly bring additional charges for "something" at that time. To ensure GZ goes down for "something". She is, imo, an extremely vindictive prosecutor. I think her vindictiveness rises to the level of malicious, but that's just my opinion. I don't respect the way she has done her job, in a number of the cases I've researched where she was prosecutor. I don't see her as an honorable person acting on the side of right and just. JMO.

KZ- I too fully expect Corey to pull something, she has had her share of criticism from her peers also and the public. I would think Corey/BDLR would approach GZ about a PLEA as their case has gotten weaker and weaker & to save face for a trial that is going to have so much reasonable doubt, but MOM/West said a plea is NOT AN OPTION. They are confident in their case.

Freckles - this is just one article on the jewelry and jewelry tool found in Trayvon's book bag after he got into trouble over the graffti.

from the article:

In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.” Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with “W.T.F” — an acronym for “what the f---.” The officer said he found Trayvon the next day and went through his book bag in search of the graffiti marker.

Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds.

Trayvon was asked if the jewelry belonged to his family or a girlfriend.

“Martin replied it’s not mine. A friend gave it to me,” he responded, according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend.

Trayvon was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to the report. School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy

Note the police investigator too called Trayvon's behavior "suspicious."

This episode was one suspension.

art tart wrote:

Freckles wrote:
If he was new at the school that year, it may explain a poor adjustment, an acting out, etc. Not justify it, just explain it.

Had the family moved so he was attending a new school OR had he been expelled from another school and this was an option taken to enroll him at this new school?

Freckles - NO the family hadn't moved, Sybrina in fact put Trayvon in a school further from their home. You continue to try to rationalize the facts or try to make excuses for Trayvon's behavior. Trayvon possibly could have been expelled from his previous school as it is a pain for working parent's to deal with constant problems at school with their kid & not a convenience for Sybrina to put him in a school further from their home.... The fact is, Trayvon was a troubled young man.

imo, Trayvon could have well had problems at the previous school and Sybrina tried to expose Trayvon to a new peer group, if that were the case, it didn't work. I guess this will come out in the deposition MOM/West do on Sybrina.

" You continue to try to rationalize the facts or try to make excuses for Trayvon's behavior."
Yes, I will continue to try to determine HOW the school record has a bearing upon GZ killing him; Yes, I will continue to seek out the evidence illustrating TM "was a troubled young man" as opposed to a normal teen being a pain in the proverbial butt.

I do not know what "burglary tools" TM had on him since even a nail file may be labeled a "burglary tool" today. Don't know how he was labeled or why and if it has any bearing upon this case. I would prefer sticking to the actual evidence of the case.
The evidence that demonstrates without a doubt TM initiated an attack upon GZ which was, in fact, unprovoked. While GZ has made statements, there is no balance to his statements from others and TM is dead. The statements are ALWAYS beneficial in justifying GZ murdering TM. Every single one of GZ' statements serves his own purpose. Strangely, GZ has been proven to the courts to be a LIAR even after TM was killed. Even more strangely, there is NO evidence TM actually struck GZ let alone bashed his head into a sidewalk. PD responded fairly quickly and would have seen GZ' blood on the sidewalk---- or on the grass. It simply isn't there. So let's look to TM and DNA transfers, fabric transfers, skin transfers, dirt transfers. There is nothing to indicate TM touched GZ! There IS evidence, however, GZ touched TM with the end of the gun.

BTW, there is no pictorial evidence GZ was ever on his back on the ground.
Wet grass and all. Nothing. His pant legs, however, showed moisture residue up to the ankle area.

Re graffiti by TM: This is almost laughable. So the kid utilized his freedom of speech to write WTF on school property. Yes, that is a no-no but certainly it is not of such magnitude to brand him a loser for life. Merely a nuisance most often accompanied by suspension and a fine to clean it up. (In the ruins of Pompeii, they found graffiti on the walls. It has provided insight for us re how the people lived, felt, at that time. Even back then, there were the typical "Juno loves Mai" written on the cave walls. While I have never carved my name into a park bench, written on a bathroom stall, etc., I have known people who have done this. And? Should they be branded as terrible people because they have behaved foolishly?

Put it into perspective.

Removed by poster.

Removed by poster.

Most importantly, why wasn't Trayvon arrested? If he was in the possession of a "burglary tool" and "stolen jewelry" it would have amounted to a felony.

The official reason cited for the suspension was the "W.T.F." graffiti.

----------

"Trayvon Martin was suspended the second time from school in October 2011 for an incident in which he was found in possession of stolen women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that a schools security staffer described as a “burglary tool,” The Miami Herald has learned.

According to the report, on Oct. 21 staffers monitoring a security camera at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School spotted Trayvon and two other students writing “W.T.F.,” an acronym for “What the f—,” on a hallway locker, according to schools police. The security employee, who knew Trayvon, confronted the teen and looked through his bag for the graffiti marker.

“Martin was suspended, warned and dismissed for the graffiti,” according to the report prepared by Miami-Dade Schools Police.

---------

Also Monday, the state Department of Juvenile Justice confirmed that Martin does not have a juvenile offender record. The information came after a public records request by The Associated Press. - AP

----------

Miami-Dade Police confirmed Tuesday that the jewelry didn’t match any that had been reported stolen. - WESH

----------

Family slams police for leak of Trayvon Martin’s suspension

"Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, and family attorneys blamed police for leaking the information about the marijuana to the news media in an effort to demonize the teenager.

“The only comment that I have right now is that they killed my son and now they’re trying to kill his reputation,” Fulton told reporters.

The Sanford Police Department insisted there was no authorized release of the suspension information but acknowledged there may have been a leak within the agency. City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. said the source of the leak would be investigated and the person responsible could be fired." - The Boston Globe

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Trayvon Martin Case: Leaked police report raises more questions than it answers.

Monday (March 26), the Sanford, Florida, police leaked a report indicating that Trayvon Martin, the 17-year old shot and killed by self-appointed neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman, was suspended from school for 10 days because he had an empty bag that once held marijuana. The school also found a way to let the press know that this was the third such suspension in the last year -- all for nonviolent offenses. - Examiner.com

Freckles wrote:" A lawyer for the dead teen’s family acknowledged Trayvon had been suspended for graffiti, but said the family knew nothing about the jewelry and the screwdriver."

How is it IF the PD impounded jewelry, if school action is taken against a student, the parent/s know nothing?
Don't the authorities have an obligation to inform the parents?

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

imo, the parent's did know the facts of the jewelry, this information would not have been with held from the parent's as there is absolutely NO REASON to do so & it would have been illegal for school official's to not inform the parent's. This information did not fit the image the Handler's were trying to paint of Trayvon, the parent's are choosing to deny they knew. The police are in possession of the jewelry and this is still an ongoing investigation. The parent's or parent have to go in to meet with school administration when a student is suspended to discuss the events surrounding the suspension. All Trayvon had to do was tell the truth but he refused to do so. The graffiti was caught on video, the jewlery was discovered when his backpack had been inventoried and turned over to the police.