Kyron Horman -- Missing 6/4/10 #3

It just bothers me that Desiree now really cares about her son. When her son was trying to talk to her she ignored him and decided it was ok its just because he goes back and forth. Now she cares for the camera. Kaine is showing true colors right now can you imagine what he must have been like to live with how scared they all must have been? She would have removed him from the home had she known how bad it was? The same woman who left him with Kaine knowing what kind of man he is? Something was terribly wrong in that home you notice how when Kaine doesnt get his way another bad thing about Terri pops up? The MFH i find interesting that her lawyer says he is an alias hmmm. . The LS waits 7 months and now its gospel truth the text pages any idiot can see right through those. How stupid can people be. If you look close on one page one line looks copy pasted. Stashed what kind of a word is that? Her son is stashed not missing but stashed. Well if he is stashed why not bring him out of hiding? Nothing adds up in this case. That poor lost child what he must have endured is beyond comprehension. Who was concerned about Kyron and possible mini seizures? Surely not his bio parents there must have been an appointment made no one has disputed that.

Last night's Dateline was just a recap of the FACTS we already know - I agree! But, there were a few new things about the family members that dawned on me during the show:

1. Kaine is increasingly inconsistent in his accounts of the home life. I can understand seeing things differently with time and new information, but his changing accounts are extreme. First, he said everything was good in the marriage, normal ups and downs, happy kids in a blended family.... Last night, he mentioned the marriage was on the rocks and that being on the brink of divorce isn't an excuse to harm a child. Full swing of the pendulum there. Just like his accounts of Terri being a great mom who had a little post partum depression, to Terri being a raging alchoholic who neglected the children and relied on Kaine as the primary caregiver.

2. Desiree confrims all was fine back in June (agreeing with Kaine). Now she is surprised to learn about the drinking and the tension in the house and she would have "taken him out of there in a second" had she known. She may well be telling the truth here. But, obviously Kaine knew these details about Terri (if true), so why not be honest with Desiree? Did he lie to her like he lied to us about Terri being a good mom because he didn't want to give Desiree ammunition to seek primary custody (which would have been in Kyron's best interest)? Was Terri a good mom and he is now lying to everyone to further discredit Terri publicly before she speaks? No matter how you look at it, this is an inconsistency in his story that can't be explained away - he was lying then or he is lying now. It may have nothing to do with Kyron's disappearance, but it's certainly as relevant or more relevant than sexting after the fact, imo.

3. We know Desiree has been married 3 times (with Kaine number 2). We know Terri has been married 3 times (with Kaine number 3). Kaine has married two divorced women with young sons. Kaine left the first woman when she was 8 months pregnant. He claims they were separated under the same roof by mutual amicable agreement anyway. She claims she was destroyed and stayed in her room crying for 2 months due to the betrayal. Hmmm.
Fast forward 7 years, looks like the same situation with a different wife. Last night, Kaine says things weren't good in the marriage "after the birth of our daughter". He doesn't say things started deteriorating two years ago, he equates the birth of the daughter to the deterioration of the marriage. Hmmm, again. While none of this may have any relevance to Kyron's disappearance, it's certainly a pattern that is notable and it makes me question Kaine's character and whether he was a husband that started disengaging from his wives after they gained some weight and became focused on maternal things. I find it very hypocritical that Kaine keeps throwing out Terri's behavior before the dissappearance and sexting afterwards as some kind of evidence, but he doesn't think it's relevant to discuss anything about his "personal life" and won't discuss any of his actions, or lack of actions, in any way. Desiree admits to several regrets about things she did or didn't do in regards to Kyron; Kaine admits to none. He acts like he sees himself as the victim whereas Desiree acts like she sees Kyron as the victim. If we shouldn't hear about Kaine's personal life unless there is evidence that it relates to Kyron's disappearance, we shouldn't have heard about Terri's either (except under Kaine's double standard).

I'm not saying either Kaine or Terri is directly involved, I hope for Kyron's sake that they were not and I feel terribly for their pain. But, I am saying that I think Kaine is one lucky SOB that Terri is keeping her mouth shut and not retaliating by spilling details about his lifestyle and behavior (for now). If he was under a microscope and she was telling us all about Kaine "behind closed doors", I don't think Kaine would be looking any better than Terri at this point.
Note: these are just personal observations and opinions

I was reading on Ask Men.com last night and found that it is very common for some men to shave all their body hair for various reasons, including, hygeine, cosmetic, and religious, but I personally think it's weird. Maybe a man who has too much hair on his back, or to thin out some of his brows, but for the most part I think it weird.

On dateline last night 2 people who have worked these type of cases stated that the information they have does not mean that Terri is guilty and that even though the text messages may look bad, it is not unusual for people to act like that, and people are still pointing fingers at Terri as if there is not a doubt she's guilty. I don't understand, but I am beginning to think that some of these people, especially those on GLP, are friends of Kaine and/or work with him at Intel. Nothing else makes any sense. You can't reason with them. They can't get past the time line. Common sense tells you that Terri left the school sometime between 8:45 am and 9:00 am and she was given an estimated time. I don't even find the hour and a half to be suspicious and she is not the only one who's time has not been explained as far as I'm concerned. Where was Kaine? Mrs. Porter? the Groundskeeper? Terri said she was driving Kiara around. I used to do that when my daughter was an infant. I'm glad nothing ever happened in which I would have had to give an exact time or location, because I wouldn't have been able to. And I really doubt those people accusing Terri could either.

What stood out to me about the Dateline show was that Kaine was lamenting about how bad things were with Terri in the beginning of the show but at the end of the show we hear him say he saw no warning signs-huh? Terri being drunk and Kiara left to herself many times is not a red flag?

This is the same man who said he didnt think anything was wrong with the marriage. The constant changing of storys makes me wonder did he really pass the lie detecter test?

If he "believed" his lies, he could pass. And if Terri was really stressed and feeling guilty about Kyron disappearing "on her watch", especially, if the family is telling her she "should have" walked him all the way to class, she might just fail a lie detector. Because, YES, she may feel guilty that Kyron disappeared, but that doesn't mean she did anything to make him disappear.

chatter2 wrote:It just bothers me that Desiree now really cares about her son. When her son was trying to talk to her she ignored him and decided it was ok its just because he goes back and forth. Now she cares for the camera. Kaine is showing true colors right now can you imagine what he must have been like to live with how scared they all must have been? She would have removed him from the home had she known how bad it was? The same woman who left him with Kaine knowing what kind of man he is? Something was terribly wrong in that home you notice how when Kaine doesnt get his way another bad thing about Terri pops up? The MFH i find interesting that her lawyer says he is an alias hmmm. . The LS waits 7 months and now its gospel truth the text pages any idiot can see right through those. How stupid can people be. If you look close on one page one line looks copy pasted. Stashed what kind of a word is that? Her son is stashed not missing but stashed. Well if he is stashed why not bring him out of hiding? Nothing adds up in this case. That poor lost child what he must have endured is beyond comprehension. Who was concerned about Kyron and possible mini seizures? Surely not his bio parents there must have been an appointment made no one has disputed that.

I was just thinking when I read that part I bolded....what if it wasn't seizures at all that Terri was worried about, but was perhaps child molestation? And what if Kaine was the one doing it to Kyron? And what if that is why Kryon was acting funny just before he went missing? And what if Terri suspected it and was going to take him to see a doctor to confirm it? And what if Kaine found out and Kaine stashed/or whatever Kryon to save his own ass before Terri could prove it? And he set Terri up for the fall in the process on purpose because she was the one who was going to expose him? And what if Terri can't even mention it now because Kyron is gone?

What if?

That suspicion has already been raised on some sites and I've posted it somewhere. I can't remember where exactly. Does anyone remember where the article is that Kaine mentions knowing about Kyron having a doctor's appointment, but not knowing when it was? I know I've posted it on one of the sites I post on, but I can't remember which one and what page it would be on, and I didn't want to have to look it up. I was going to post on GLP, but just realized when I went to post something that they've banned my IP address. Oh, well, they are Kaine supporters and refuse to hear anything that doesn't say Terri is guilty, even when shown something that contradicts their theories. I've been wondering if maybe one of the persons supporting him might be his new girlfriend?

by Sherry Today at 12:04 pm

.What stood out to me about the Dateline show was that Kaine was lamenting about how bad things were with Terri in the beginning of the show but at the end of the show we hear him say he saw no warning signs-huh? Terri being drunk and Kiara left to herself many times is not a red flag?.

========================
Good observation. It seems like he can't even see that in proclaiming he witnessed Terri acting so selfish/neglectful that he can conceive of her being a child killer = he was too selfish/neglectful to do anything to protect his children.

The rage I saw in Kaines eyes on the Dateline show truely scares me for Kiara.Especially since she looks just like her mother. Children are his possessions he owns them. Even tho the marraiges fall apart from both the mothers who bare his child. He will never leave that marraige without the children. Terri helped raise Kyron and Leaving that marraige as destructive as it was the children mattered. Terri had no rights to Kyron as a parent just like her name was never put on the house her only rights were to do as she was told by him and that was to watch the children and be a housewife. When this case breaks wide open and it will soon alot of his secrets that both wives protected will come spilling out. He is a desparate man right now but its not about where Kyron is or searching for him its about what dark secrets will come out. In order to leave the marriage he has to make sure she is unfit and will stop at nothing to take the children with him. This i find very scarey he is about to go over the top being the control is being taken from him.

The timeline is still a big issue on many sites, so I wanted to post this again and add a comment by another poster that I think makes it a little clearer.

Horman's desk mate says substitute noticed him missing

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/...

Reported by: Kohr Harlan
Last Update: 7:23 am

Eight-year-old Tanner Pumala says the first person to notice Kyron Horman was missing was a substitute teacher who was taking a head count as the second and third grade class was re-assembling after visiting other classrooms for a science fair at Skyline School last Friday.

"And she was like 'oh no where's Kyron there's only five' and Mrs. Porter was like it's okay calm down, calm down he's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she said alright I'm going to leave and she left, " says Tanner Pumala.

Tanner is Kyron's deskmate in their combined second-third grade classroom. Tanner says Kyron was in school for at least an hour Friday morning and that he saw Kyron's step-mother LEAVE the school WITHOUT Kyron.

(Even if school didn't start until 8:45, it still shows that Kyron was present after Terri left the school. The had met in the classrooms and were separated into small groups of 4-5 students, and it wasn't until after they had re-assembled after visiting some of the classrooms (more than one) that the sub noticed Kyron was missing).

a substitute teacher who was taking a head count as the second and third grade class was re-assembling AFTER visiting other classrooms for a science fair

M. November 13,
Okay. So it sounds like the 'substitute', mystery adult, who was leading groups of students, had Kyron at the beginning of the science fair rounds. So that was approx. 9 a.m. That would make sense, that Tanner would see Kyron and they would pass each other and Kyron would speak of checking out a cool exhibit. So the article does NOT mention Kyron saying he's going into A BASEMENT. It speaks of an exhibit being ELECTRIC. That's any time after 9 a.m. Then between grouping up and being accounted for at 10 a.m., the adult responsible for Kyron's group goes into panic mode, because, well, she lost track of a child.
Okay, so between 9 a.m, and 10 a.m. Kyron disappeared from HIS classroom and at least the basic parts of the school. Now to add to that, was there ever any mention in articles that at that particular moment, teachers went and searched every nook and cranny of the school interior? I don't think that happened, so there is a theory/possibility that between 9 and 10 a.m, Kyron disappeared and wasn't NECESSARILY removed from the school grounds.

Now, if I'm following the random theory that perhaps Kyron never left school grounds.....that means that Gunga Dave left the school around 9, having nothing to do with the case...but everyone ELSE inside that school is suspect!!!!!

johnabelle wrote:Isn't it true that one of the ways to recognize when someone has committed a crime is behaviorial changes and altered appearance?

Yes. Suffice to say that much is culturally based, and then to a great extent it depends on the individual(s). A sociopath is incapable of expressing regret or remorse, much in the same way that sex offenders do not see what they did as "wrong." For example, sex offenders see you as the one who is "abnormal," because you don't engage in or condone rape, molestation or other sexual offenses. It is for that reason that is impossible to rehabilitate sex offenders (or sociopaths) and to date, there isn't even one single case anywhere in the world where a sex offender or sociopath has been successfully rehabilitated.

There are some who have sociopathic tendencies, but are not true sociopaths. These would be gang members, "hit men" and others who see killing as incidental to what they do, and they're able to rationalize their actions to a great extent.

For everyone else, the majority of people, they cannot deal with it and eventually the either confess or "collapse."

What you're seeing from Kaine is a form of cognitive dissociation. He doesn't like who he has become and can't stand to look at himself, so he has altered his appearance (rather dramatically from what people here have stated). Don't think the police haven't noticed either.

The walls are closing in around him and I think that has to do with his "avenues of escape" being cut off one by one. I didn't hear anyone say he mentioned Terri's friends, and it seems he's backed off that. He's no longer pointing the finger at them.

LottieM wrote:But my favorite part was when Kaine said he didn't know if Kryon would show up in 10 months or 2 years.....where did he draw those numbers from? What's he been gone now like 5 1/2 months? 10 months, Kaine? Really? Where is he?

It sounds like he is in denial. Kyron's dead. You know there's hope, and then there's denial.

LottieM wrote:I was just thinking when I read that part I bolded....what if it wasn't seizures at all that Terri was worried about, but was perhaps child molestation? And what if Kaine was the one doing it to Kyron? And what if that is why Kryon was acting funny just before he went missing? And what if Terri suspected it and was going to take him to see a doctor to confirm it? And what if Kaine found out and Kaine stashed/or whatever Kryon to save his own ass before Terri could prove it? And he set Terri up for the fall in the process on purpose because she was the one who was going to expose him? And what if Terri can't even mention it now because Kyron is gone?

What if?

Control freaks like Kaine have this bizarre "perfect world" thing going. Kyron is "flawed" from Kaine's point of view and doesn't exactly fit into Kaine's "perfect world." Assuming Kyron really did have seizures, how do you control someone has seizures?

I don't buy into the abduction theories, because they make no sense. Terri (fortunately) has a good alibi. She had to have had an accomplice, and so far none have panned out. If she abducted Kyron to protect him, that makes no sense either. If she had, then she should have brought the police in, and that would have ended the speculation. Even if she didn't, her attorney would have handled that. He would have brought in a neutral party to interview Kyron, and then presented those findings to the police, or would have arranged for the police and a child psychologist to interview Kyron, and that would be the end of it, because either her fears would be founded or they would be unfounded. She can't seriously believe she could hide him forever. Depending on Oregon statutes and her status as a parent/guardian with or without custodial rights, there's a question as to whether or not her actions were illegal, so it makes no sense to continue hiding him. Copping a plea to Child Endangerment and getting 3 years probation is a lot better than 9-17 for kidnapping, and that would be the worst case scenario for her. Her attorney would have advised her on that.

It makes no sense for Kaine to abduct Kyron either. As soon as Kyron surfaces, he'll say he was abducted by his father. And people say he'd do that so he can win the divorce or whatever, that is legally flawed logic. Terri would sue Kaine and the court would reverse everything, because it's original findings were based on perjured testimony by Kaine, so he loses everything and gets convicted of perjury, and a few other felony charges as well. 10 years from now wouldn't matter, since the statute of limitations for any fraud offense begins with the discovery of the fraud (and if it was 10 years from now that Kyron surfaced that's when the statute of limitations starts running).

truthbtold wrote:I'm not saying either Kaine or Terri is directly involved, I hope for Kyron's sake that they were not and I feel terribly for their pain. But, I am saying that I think Kaine is one lucky SOB that Terri is keeping her mouth shut and not retaliating by spilling details about his lifestyle and behavior (for now). If he was under a microscope and she was telling us all about Kaine "behind closed doors", I don't think Kaine would be looking any better than Terri at this point.

And what does that say about the media?

Why isn't the media digging into Kaine's life? I guess investigative journalism/reporting is dead. This is a man who sent an e-mail to co-workers telling them not to discuss "my situation" with the media. What he did not say is, "...don't discuss anything related to the disappearance of my son..."

What exactly is "my situation" and why shouldn't it be discussed?

I agree, Mircea. Kaine's email was rather odd.

Looks like they did another search yesterday:

Dive teams search for missing Kyron Horman

November 14, 2010

PORTLAND — Diving teams are again searching a northwest Portland island for missing 8-year-old Kyron Horman.

Lt. Mary Lindstrand of the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office says the teams were at Sauvie Island Saturday looking for clues.

Read more: http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20101114/UPDATE/101114001/Dive-teams-search-for-missing-Kyron-Horman#ixzz15GzmZ0VX

Wonder if LE was permitted to interview Desiree's 15 year old son and Terri's 16 year old son? Since LE has officially stated that this is not a stranger abduction (hope they haven't discounted the possibility altogether without definitive evidence), LE must have wanted to speak with both boys about how the adult family members reacted to stress, lack of control, tension between the spouses... It would be interesting to know how the children were disciplined, punished, and treated in general; along with identifying the adults (non-family) who were frequently exposed to the children. Since LE and Kaine/Desiree have clearly targeted Terri and opened her personal life to the media, I don't think it's inappropriate to ask for details about these things. Normally, I feel strongly that the private lives of (assumed) victims should be more respected in the press. In this case, however, it appears that exposing Terri's private life to the media was an intentional strategy to further isolate her and get her to provide a new version of events on the day of the abduction. That was a big mistake, imo. Not only has it backfired, it has made it perfectly appropriate for the public to want to peer into the private lives of all of the family members in order to be objective. As it stands, Terri hasn't been named a suspect, nor even a POI. So, all of the adult family members should be viewed with equal suspicion in attempting to identify suspects.

Amazing how the expansion of media and news outlets/accesibility has affected missing persons cases. Mostly, imo, it's very positive in that we get photos and info about the missing person very quickly and repeatedly via tv news, internet news, blogs.... Also, we get photos and info on suspects in the same manner. But, I'm a little troubled that in Kyron's case LE may have used this media saturation as a pressure cooker to put the heat on individuals that they think may be involved in a crime, without having enough evidence to identify the individuals as suspects. I hope it was Kaine that formed and perpetuated that strategy against LE advice. But, I fear that LE is allowing and/or encouraging Kaine to do it to "sweat" Terri without LE being legally responsible should a lawsuit later be filed by Terri. Even if Terri is guilty, how has the release of this personal information helped the investigation and Kyron in any way? It's only given Kaine leverage in his custody and divorce cases. If Terri is eventually cleared of any involvement in Kyron's disappearance, everyone will still know about her sexting, her DUI, accusations of child neglect.. Slippery slope if public persecution becomes another "investigative tool"... Once it's out there, it can't be taken back and people and their families can literally be ruined.

truthbtold wrote:Wonder if LE was permitted to interview Desiree's 15 year old son and Terri's 16 year old son?

That would depend on "when" they attempted to do so. A parent or guardian must be present when a minor is interviewed (regardless of their relationship to the crime). If LE attempted to so very early in the case, maybe the first week or so, Dizzyray might not have objected, but once things heated up, an attorney would probably be present, which would make the interviews not very effective.

Does anyone even know if they were interviewed?

There is a strange one-sidedness to the reporting. We always know what police are doing with respect to Terri, but we never know what they are doing with other family members. I suppose some of that has to do with Kaine barring television and newspaper reporters from press conferences, so the media is playing ball on Kaine's terms so they don't get cut-off and miss out on the advertising revenues that go with the "if it bleeds, it leads" motto.

truthbtold wrote: But, I'm a little troubled that in Kyron's case LE may have used this media saturation as a pressure cooker to put the heat on individuals that they think may be involved in a crime, without having enough evidence to identify the individuals as suspects.

Well, look at the facts.

On the day he disappears, both Kaine and Terri walk to the bus stop to wait for Kyron. Is that normal? Unfortunately, we don't know one way or the other, but apparently it seemed suspicious to police (as though one or both were setting up some sort of alibi or putting the sympathy card up their sleeve for later use).

If LE has even a modicum of skills, they should have been able to establish early on that Terri always goes to the bus stop, but Kaine rarely, if ever, does.

Since LE suspects family involvement, they'd want to know if Kaine and Terri are working together, or is one covering for the other. We pretty much know the answer to that. The case against Terri was weak, but the emerging time-line and evidence shows she wasn't involved. Getting evidence against Kaine would be more difficult. Granted, the facility where he is employed apparently has key card access, but those are easily defeated, and the data is stored as standard text files. If you have access to the file folder where the data is stored and any word processor (Notepad, Wordpad, Word or even Excel) you can open the file, make additions and deletions and re-save it. But that would prove nothing, except that Kaine wasn't where he said he was. It would take a lot more evidence than that.

The best thing to do is allow Kaine to rail against Terri until he finally messes up and makes an admission. That's probably one reason why LE is not revealing anything they know about the matter. As Kaine's plans unravel, he may be get angered and frustrated to the point that he lets something slip that only someone present during the commission of the crime would know, and then LE would at least have something to make an arrest.

Saw this at HM, kind of interesting, although I haven't been following this case much lately, and this might be old news to most of you.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/40192247#40192247

Here's the HM link too:

Kyron Horman case: Desiree Young reveals motive in Today interview
Posted on November 15th, 2010 by Valhall

Read more:
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/11/15/kyron-horman-case-desiree-young-reveals-motive-in-today-interview/

What are these e-mails they are talking about - Im confused!

Thanks Julie! The Desiree and Kaine team is now divided. She said she didn't agree with the choices Kaine is making, and that she wasn't aware of what was going on inside the Horman home per the info coming out from the divorce. It appears LE shared Terri's alleged emails with Desiree. She states Terri hated Kyron.

Divide and conquer?

Hi KJ! In the Today Show video, Desiree talks about alleged emails from Terri talking about her hatred of Kyron. I suppose LE shared these with her. No idea who Terri sent them to, they don't say.

Kyron's mother, Desiree Young, appears solo on Today Show saying Terri Horman had 'severe hatred for Kyron'

Updated: Monday, November 15, 2010, 8:42 AM

~Snipped~

It was a rare solo interview, with Young appearing without Kyron's father, her ex-husband, Kaine Horman.

The reason, said Young, was because she is "disappointed in the choices that he's making."

Meredith Viera asked about Kaine's divorce document allegations of Terri being visibly impaired from alcohol several times a week and passing out on the couch, Young said she's never been aware there were such problems.

"We learned of all of this information after the fact and from the media. He had several opportunities to let Tony and I know what was going on in the house and he did not. He had several opportunities to make the right choice and either let me know or remove Kyron from the house, I would have removed Kyron from the house if I would have known what was going on," Young said.

"Without a doubt, I wish I would have known it before, I wouldn't tolerate it," she said.

Young, who became visibly emotional on camera, explained that a year prior to Kyron's disappearance, she tried to get custody of him.

"Kaine told me it was not an option on several occasions and it was a point of contention with us," Young said. "Kyron on many occasions told me he wanted to come and live with me and on a couple of different occasions, Terri had called me specifically so that I could talk to Kyron because he was so upset and Terri, personally wanted me to take Kyron."

On Friday, police showed Young e-mails Terri had sent to friends describing her marriage to Kaine and her feelings about Kyron.

Young said the emails reveal "a severe hatred for Kyron."

"She blames a lot of the marital problems between Kaine and herself on Kyron. It was a huge point of contention in their marriage and she had expressed in great detail her hatred for Kyron," Young said. "I now believe, without a shadow of a doubt that not only is she capable of hurting Kyron, that it's clear that she could have hurt him in the worst possible way."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kyrons_mother_desiree_young_ap.html

So LE just showed these emails to Desiree on Friday.

*KJ* wrote:What are these e-mails they are talking about - Im confused!

Piper wrote:So LE just showed these emails to Desiree on Friday.

snipped:

Desiree Young appeared on Today Monday morning. She talked about explosive emails that police showed her just last Friday. The emails were sent to friends by Terri Moulton Horman, Kyron's step-mother, according to Young.

Read more:
http://www.kgw.com/news/Exclusive--Kyron-Hormans-Mom-Talks-About-Disturbing-Emails--108170584.html

Makes me wonder why they are just now showing them to her. Is it because Kaine has fallen from grace with Desiree and Tony, so LE is now pitting Desiree against Kaine as well? They weren't getting anywhere with the cozy united front. This just gets more bizarre by the day.

I don't know the specifics of those emails, but from what is written in these latest news reports, sounds as if Desiree is blaming the wrong person.

"Terri had called me specifically so that I could talk to Kyron because he was so upset and Terri, personally wanted me to take Kyron."

That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't care.

"Kaine told me it was not an option on several occasions and it was a point of contention with us," Young said. "Kyron on many occasions told me he wanted to come and live with me and on a couple of different occasions,

So Terri was willing to allow Kyron to live with his mom and Kaine was not, and Kyron disappeared on the day he was to leave to spend the summer with Desiree. Was Kaine afraid of losing custody?

Maybe he didn't tell Desiree about Terri, because Terri wasn't doing the things he's accusing her of now, Could be Kaine was the reason for Kyron's unhappiness.

Something was definitely going on because either Terri sent her son James from the home to protect him or Kaine made him leave.

WHAT THE F&^%(&^(*&^)*&()*&!!!

I'm SOOOO confused!

If Terri urged D to take custody, and Kaine refused...it still doesn't add up to Terri doing away with him. Now, to me, it looks more like Kaine wanted out, but did not want the enevidible to occur...Kyron being transferred back to D!

I swear I go back & forth constantly on what to believe...but more & more Kaine is looking more fishy.

Why in the world would LE show a distraught mom, who alread believes in TH's guilt more incriminating evidence against her? That makes NO sense! Unless it's all to divide and conquer. Unless it's because now D looks suspect and they want her to break...like she knew about it all along and acted on that knowledge. I just don't understand this!

Poor Kyron!

And as pathetic as it sounds...I'm almost unsure whether to believe those e-mails are true. Should I believe D's accusations about the evidence - I guess so, otherwise LE would have direct evidence of deciet - so it must have happened. But are they real? OR could they have been fabricated by Kaine?

Or maybe it's all true and Kaine IS a control freak and has done all of this so that he can distroy Terri and walk away with both children.

Question is, is he THAT much of a control freak that he would prefer no one gets Kyron if he can't have him?

LORDY LORDY! What in the world is going on?!

Ok, let's recap what we supposidly have against Terri:

-gap in her timeline
-misinformation to the teacher
-hatred for Kyron
-Mental/emotional problems
-substance abuse
-breaking marriage
-deception (or failure) on 2 poly's
-Odd behavior
-MFH
-inconsistent pings?

Is this not enough to charge her?

Do they REALLY think he's still alive? If so, I understand them holding off (assuming they are SURE it's her). But if they think he's deceased wouldn't it make more sense to just arrest her and hope to negotiate some closure?

The only other thing that makes sense is if they don't really think it's her, and have their eye on someone else.

Anyone else care to join me here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF-xkAlOLwA&feature=related


eta: I think D sees it the way we all do here...that Terri WAS trying, but what else was she to do besides urge D to push. If Kaine had told D anything like what he is now saying, THAT would have been grounds for D to regain custody and THAT is what she is po'd about.

Wait until the rest sinks in. Is LE intentionally setting D & K up?

Well, this is upsetting, and confusing . Why would LE just be showing Desiree these e-mails now? This whole thing doesn't make any sense.

If Terri expressed hatred of Kyron -- and I'm a stepmother and I know she could have said things she didn't mean in the heat of anger -- still, it could be a game-changer for me.

Ya know, the more I think about it, LE really punched Desiree in the gut with those alleged emails. They know what's been put out in the media in regards to all the info in the divorce papers, which Desiree is obviously pissed about because she had no clue this was going on in Kyron's life, per Kaine. The other bad decision making, which sounds like she's speaking in the present tense, she's not happy with that. I wonder what other decisions of Kaine's she's not happy with? LE just poured salt in her wounds by showing her those emails, IMO, for a reason.

"Kaine told me it was not an option on several occasions and it was a point of contention with us," Young said.

Somethin' stinks.......

lc wrote:Well, this is upsetting, and confusing . Why would LE just be showing Desiree these e-mails now? This whole thing doesn't make any sense.

If Terri expressed hatred of Kyron -- and I'm a stepmother and I know she could have said things she didn't mean in the heat of anger -- still, it could be a game-changer for me.

Hi lc,

I would like to see the content of these emails. If any adult expresses hatred for a child, something's not right. I can see "oh, he's driving me nuts", and all that. But not out and out hatred for a little one, and we don't know what's in them. I guess we'll see who's up to bat next....

I agree, Piper, I would like to know what's in those e-mails -- or if it's even true there are those e-mails. I still don't trust Desiree and I don't trust these LE officials.

Piper wrote:

Ya know...

..... LE just poured salt in her wounds by showing her those emails, IMO, for a reason.

respectfully snipped

AGREED! Something is up, and I think it may be Kaine's turn....maybe...his actions just makes no sense in terms of his interest in Kyron. Unless he knows something we all don't.

I was reminded of something that happened to me once while I was watching Desiree on this video.

It was a psychological manipulation tactic........ I think that's what was just done to her, I'm not sure where they're going with it, but just the same.

But they didn't need to do that on top of the accusations that Kaine, himself put out there.

It's still over the top!

Why in the world would they do this? The more I think about it, the more I think it wasn't to seperate K & D - that has clearly already occured. I think they may be suspecting that she took matters into her own hands...in terms of custody.

But how in the world could she do that with LE in her bedroom with her each night?

So that doesn't make sense...was it really just to drive the nail into the coffin of any trust between the 2???? That's pretty harsh...does LE really not care?

As much as she irritates me. As much as I question her desire for custody, that's down right mean...does that not matter?

WAIT A SECOND......

Are they trying to get her to turn on Kaine? It's one thing to be po'd at him, it's quite another to say...

"Ya know, I've been wondering about him for the following reasons...."

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

It struck me as mean! Seems she was already reeling and pissed from Kaine's accusations against Terri in the divorce case, things she'd never heard before about the Hormon's home life. She made it clear Kaine had plenty of chances to tell her and Tony.

So

They show these alleged emails to Desiree first, I take it Kaine hadn't seen them?

Desiree thought Kaine has been honest with her all of this time, about many things. At least that's what I got from listening to her. JMO!

She states Terri personally wanted her to take Kyron.

"Kaine told me it was not an option on several occasions and it was a point of contention with us," Young said.

Just because Kaine said it wasn't an option shouldn't stop someone from filing for at least joint custody.

Quoting johnabelle:

So Terri was willing to allow Kyron to live with his mom and Kaine was not, and Kyron disappeared on the day he was to leave to spend the summer with Desiree. Was Kaine afraid of losing custody?

Good question!!

No he was only going for that weekend...they did have plans to split the summer between the 2 families though.

Apparently Kaine had a presser & saw the e-mails at the same time as Des.

Sorry to be short...gotta start dinner

Thanks for the info on the emails, KJ.

Um, okay, if you all are half as confused as I am, then, uh, I'm twice as confused as you all.

*KJ* wrote:Why in the world would LE show a distraught mom, who alread believes in TH's guilt more incriminating evidence against her?

Was that a rhetorical question? Because I have no idea why they would do that, and it doesn't sound proper to me.

I'll have to think about this one. It seems unprecedented.

*KJ* wrote: That makes NO sense! Unless it's all to divide and conquer. Unless it's because now D looks suspect and they want her to break...like she knew about it all along and acted on that knowledge.

I'll go with that for now.

*KJ* wrote:And as pathetic as it sounds...I'm almost unsure whether to believe those e-mails are true. Should I believe D's accusations about the evidence - I guess so, otherwise LE would have direct evidence of deciet - so it must have happened. But are they real? OR could they have been fabricated by Kaine?

They could have been fabricated by LE. In fact, LE could be working with Terri. They could have contacted her attorney and through her attorney, asked her permission to do this to obtain a desired result, and perhaps they asked how she might word or phrase things to make it appear more convincing.

I would disagree with your conclusion though. This action would suggest they are focusing on Kaine, and their intent is to drive Dizzyray away and isolate Kaine. If so, the next logical course of action would be to find some way to strip Kiara away from Kaine. Better yet, give her to Terri. Kaine's World would need a crash-cart to survive.

*KJ* wrote:Do they REALLY think he's still alive?

Of course Kaine does. Do you know of any better way to manipulate someone?

So long as Dizzyray thinks Kyron is still alive, she'll hang on Kaine's every word. That's how he can manipulate and control her.

*KJ* wrote:WHAT THE F&^%(&^(*&^)*&()*&!!!

I'm SOOOO confused!

Me too! Confused, but not surprised by the crumbling of more alliances.

Desiree's interview just confirmed 3 possible family suspects with motive. 1. Kaine caused Kyron's disappearance to avoid losing custody; 2. Desiree caused Kyron's disappearance to forcibly remove him from Kaine's custody, 3. Terri caused Kyron's disappearance either because she resented Kyron or feared for his safety, and Kaine would not consider a change in custody.

If Kaine had put Kyron's well-being first, maybe he would be happy and healthy living with Desiree. He ignored Kyron's cries for help (if Desiree's newest account is true), he ignored Terri's falling apart before his eyes (if Kaine's account is true), and he ignored Desiree's, Terri's, and Kyron's requests to change Kyron's living environment (this can probably be verified). If all of this family stuff feeds into Kyron's disappearance, Kaine is at least partly responsible, imo (but seemingly not in his opinion). I still feel terribly for him if he had no involvement in whatever happened to Kyron, but he may well have been able to prevent it. What a price to pay for being selfish and controlling.

Will be interesting to see if we get any confirmation of the alleged emails authenticity and content. More interesting to me is what will Kaine do next? Will he now throw mud at Desiree in retaliation (even though she isn't defenseless because she's got Tony)? Will he accuse Terri of being solely responsible for Kyron's unhappiness and desire to leave the home? Least likely scenario: Kaine admits he should have acted differently and expresses the normal and sincere regrets that one would expect and with which most of us could empathize.

Personally, I still believe that Kyron was taken by someone other than a family member in retaliation for something done by Kaine and/or Terri. I feel strongly that they are both involved in some hinky crap and that is the "really surprising stuff LE wishes it didn't know about". PEACE TO KYRON...

Mirecea sez:
Um, okay, if you all are half as confused as I am, then, uh, I'm twice as confused as you all.

*KJ* wrote:Why in the world would LE show a distraught mom, who alread believes in TH's guilt more incriminating evidence against her?

Was that a rhetorical question? Because I have no idea why they would do that, and it doesn't sound proper to me.

I'll have to think about this one. It seems unprecedented.

It doesn't sound like proper procedure during an investigation. Even parents of missing children are kept in the dark about many things that come up in the investigation and there's good reasons for doing that. Its none of Desiree's business what the emails say since none of them were addressed to her. This sounds like an error on LE's part if they shared these emails or, Desiree made this up.

truthbtold wrote:

*KJ* wrote:WHAT THE F&^%(&^(*&^)*&()*&!!!

I'm SOOOO confused!

Me too! Confused, but not surprised by the crumbling of more alliances.

Desiree's interview just confirmed 3 possible family suspects with motive. 1. Kaine caused Kyron's disappearance to avoid losing custody; 2. Desiree caused Kyron's disappearance to forcibly remove him from Kaine's custody, 3. Terri caused Kyron's disappearance either because she resented Kyron or feared for his safety, and Kaine would not consider a change in custody.

If Kaine had put Kyron's well-being first, maybe he would be happy and healthy living with Desiree. He ignored Kyron's cries for help (if Desiree's newest account is true), he ignored Terri's falling apart before his eyes (if Kaine's account is true), and he ignored Desiree's, Terri's, and Kyron's requests to change Kyron's living environment (this can probably be verified). If all of this family stuff feeds into Kyron's disappearance, Kaine is at least partly responsible, imo (but seemingly not in his opinion). I still feel terribly for him if he had no involvement in whatever happened to Kyron, but he may well have been able to prevent it. What a price to pay for being selfish and controlling.

Will be interesting to see if we get any confirmation of the alleged emails authenticity and content. More interesting to me is what will Kaine do next? Will he now throw mud at Desiree in retaliation (even though she isn't defenseless because she's got Tony)? Will he accuse Terri of being solely responsible for Kyron's unhappiness and desire to leave the home? Least likely scenario: Kaine admits he should have acted differently and expresses the normal and sincere regrets that one would expect and with which most of us could empathize.

Personally, I still believe that Kyron was taken by someone other than a family member in retaliation for something done by Kaine and/or Terri. I feel strongly that they are both involved in some hinky crap and that is the "really surprising stuff LE wishes it didn't know about". PEACE TO KYRON...

You know the way you spelled it out...

What happens when you live your life, or manipulate situations to avoid a specific scenario from happening?

Not sure if that makes sense...let me spell it out more directly.

What is the least surprising thing to occur when a person manipulates another into, say, staying with them?

They leave right?

What happens when you manipulate a situation to avoid another???

You can't, somehow your fears bring that thing closer, right?

So, what if Kaine was all about making sure his sone stayed under his control?

I don't know if this is making any sense...I think I'm trying to explain Karma.

It doesn't help to figure out who may be responsible...and frankly it's getting harder & harder for me to believe that there was some sort of stranger abduction and all this 'noise' is just there too. Something awefully fishy is going on and I'm certain that Kaine's controling nature played a VERY large factor in it.

Terri's parents are well off right?

If she wanted out, or couldn't take it anymore, she very well could have taken Kitty and gone there, right? Hey maybe this is why she sent J to her parents and tried to get D to get Kyron back...maybe this was her plan? Anyway...it still doesn't make sense to me that she would do this, maybe snapped, but he was at school....doesn't make sense!

This all leads back to Kaine.

If it was that bad, she could have left, unless somehow he wouldn't allow it. Maybe by promising to release all sorts of terrible information about her? So maybe she found a different way to escape him...at the bottom of a bottle.

But then where is Kyron?

Stranger???? I dunno...

Even if he had help doing this (which it seems he would have had to have) that person couldn't keep it quiet any easier than Terri's accompliss...

ARG!!!!!

Also if Terri was so overwhelmed...wouldn't she have been in good spirits knowing he was on his way to Medford that night?

Is all this a distraction? Could this really be a stranger obduction and the person responisble is lucking out BIG TIME?

OMG! I'm dizzy!

Kaine Horman says he never thought Kyron was in danger around boy's stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman

Published: Monday, November 15, 2010, 12:15 PM Updated: Monday, November 15, 2010, 4:01 PM
Lynne Terry, The Oregonian

Kaine Horman told reporters today that he never thought that his son Kyron was in danger around his estranged wife in the months before he disappeared.

Horman, who held a news conference at the Wall of Hope in front of Tualatin Valley Fire & Rescue station this morning, was questioned about statements made by Kyron's mother Desiree Young about emails she was shown by investigators on Friday.

Young, interviewed on the Today Show this morning, said the emails revealed "a severe hatred of Kyron."

In the news conference, Kaine didn't address that issue directly, but he did talk about accusations in his court files that Terri Horman had a drinking problem.

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic.

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said. "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

He said "I think the alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg."

Horman said his 2-year-old daughter Kiara asks about Kyron all the time, but never asks about her mother.

-- Lynne Terry

Video

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

Hi johnabelle, thanks for the article!

Does anyone think it would take this long and a child to go missing to figure out your wife had a drinking problem? If he watched her drink and pass out on the couch, he was obviously watching the kids, right? At first, he claimed Terri was the equivalent of June Cleaver. So of course he had to call a press conference this afternoon, it's called damage control.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said. "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

I don't believe Kaine is that naive, and he wants back in Desiree's good graces. I have no idea what happened to little Kyron, but none of this is helping to find him.

I agree, Piper! He knew what was going on. How can one not know when there is a DUI, drinking to the point of passing out and seeing your little one being neglected? He can recount the slurred speech yet he had no idea? Baloney!

Gee, a rift between Dez and Kaine? Now who could have seen that comin? kh

Sherry wrote:I agree, Piper! He knew what was going on. How can one not know when there is a DUI, drinking to the point of passing out and seeing your little one being neglected? He can recount the slurred speech yet he had no idea? Baloney!

But, do we know for a fact what Kaine is spouting is true? Did she really have a drinking problem? I know there was a DUI ticket, but do we know that she was drinking all the time? If she really had a drinking problem, why was she the one who drove Kyron to Dizzy's on the few week-ends he went? Why didn't Kaine take him, or why didn't Dizzy drive and pick him up? Why was she the one who took Kyron to Dizzy's other son's birthday celebration? His dad didn't go and neither did his mom?

Tell it like it is, kh!

sitemama wrote:

Sherry wrote:I agree, Piper! He knew what was going on. How can one not know when there is a DUI, drinking to the point of passing out and seeing your little one being neglected? He can recount the slurred speech yet he had no idea? Baloney!

But, do we know for a fact what Kaine is spouting is true? Did she really have a drinking problem? I know there was a DUI ticket, but do we know that she was drinking all the time? If she really had a drinking problem, why was she the one who drove Kyron to Dizzy's on the few week-ends he went? Why didn't Kaine take him, or why didn't Dizzy drive and pick him up? Why was she the one who took Kyron to Dizzy's other son's birthday celebration? His dad didn't go and neither did his mom?

Exactly, Mama! He just didn't see it then, I suppose.