Kyron Horman -- Missing 6/4/10 #3

sitemama wrote:

Sherry wrote:I agree, Piper! He knew what was going on. How can one not know when there is a DUI, drinking to the point of passing out and seeing your little one being neglected? He can recount the slurred speech yet he had no idea? Baloney!

But, do we know for a fact what Kaine is spouting is true? Did she really have a drinking problem? I know there was a DUI ticket, but do we know that she was drinking all the time? If she really had a drinking problem, why was she the one who drove Kyron to Dizzy's on the few week-ends he went? Why didn't Kaine take him, or why didn't Dizzy drive and pick him up? Why was she the one who took Kyron to Dizzy's other son's birthday celebration? His dad didn't go and neither did his mom?

Excellent points, sitemama! I don't know if its true but whether it is or not, Kaine was BSin' at that conference!

I agree with you. I can't bear to look at him since his 'make-over'. In stead of shaving his head, he should have had lip reductions.

I agree with Sherry, sitemama, and Piper; Kaine's less credible every time he speaks.

I seriously believe that Kaine is a narcissist. He continues to lie about anything that doesn't reflect positively on him and blames someone/something else for negative repercussions of his own actions. He is always the victim. Examples of Kaine's narcissistic justifications (paraphrased from my perspective):

- "I didn't really cheat on Desiree and leave her and baby Kyron. That would make me look bad. Instead, as a caring partner, I consulted with my wife and she agreed to my betraying her. Essentially, my very pregnant wife with whom I was living agreed to my having an affair. She signed up for it..."

- "It's not that I lied when I said my wife Terri was a great mother, and then later said she was a drunk who neglected our toddler every night. That would make me look negligent and bad myself. Instead, when I made those statements I was simply unaware of something known as alcoholism. Now that I know about this alcoholism thing (maybe you all have heard about it?), I can see that I and my kids were victims of it. My wife drug it in to the house and there was no way that I could have recognized it as a problem at the time. I mean, anyone could have missed it - the only clue was my wife passing out drunk every night while our toddler wandered around unattended. Therefore, I was being honest when I claimed that I saw no red flags. No one should hold me responsible for failing to assist my wife and protect my kids."
(Personally, I'm not convinced that Terri really did have a drinking problem - could be more Kaine BS.)

Kaine is a liar. Period. Until now, I've thought he was hiding some things but didn't think he was directly involved in Kyron's disappearance. Well, the BS spewed in this latest presser has me wondering if he really could be involved. He obviously cares more about perpetuating the myth of himself as the perfect ex-husband, husband and father than he does about being completely honest about key lifestyle issues that may well provide clues to Kyron's disappearance. I'm now willing to believe that he may not only be selfish and controlling, but also dangerous. Hope not, but this guy's a piece of work at the very least. He must think he's smarter than everyone else if he expects the public to believe his transparent cya excuses. The press isn't accusing him of harming Kyron, they're still accusing Terri. So, why does he feel the need to waste press exposure trying to convince us that he's infallible? I'm actually getting angry with sadness for Kyron (if that makes sense)...

AGREED!

Here is one of Terri's emails. Someone says they've not seen it before, but I have.
=====================================
Kati just said they have a never seen before email from TH to a friend. News at 11.
Quoting: Go ducks 1143384

I have a link saved to KATU breaking news that I clicked on after reading your post. Here's the link:

[link to www.katu.com]

As soon as I clicked on it, the 11:00 news started and that was the first story up. Here's what I remember being said:

KATU had an email that Terri had written to April stating stuff like, "Kaine never gave me any money and I couldn't go out (or maybe she said wasn't allowed to go out?). I blew through my 30,000 settlement money because Kaine made me pay $1000 a month. I wasn't working but I was taking care of the kids, doing all the housework, yardwork, clean gutters. I'm the one that takes care of Kyron since he was very little because Desiree didn't want to. I'm the one that discovered he needed glasses when he was 6 months old. I'm the one to take him to the doctor, Kaine didn't ever want to. Kaine always called me fat and told me to get back into body building.

Piper wrote:So of course he had to call a press conference this afternoon, it's called damage control.

That's what it smells like.

truthbtold wrote:I agree with Sherry, sitemama, and Piper; Kaine's less credible every time he speaks.

Good. Then it's only a matter of time before he steps on it.

Damage control and pre-emptive strikes!

Wonder if the alleged emails came from Terri's laptop, a desktop or a shared laptop?

All of the incriminating "evidence" that's been alluded to thus far is from technology (and Kaine's self-serving recollections). Text messages, emails, phone pings... Kaine has mentioned the computer so many times when talking about Terri. I'm curious if there was a shared computer in the house and what kind of "surprising" stuff might have been found. Searches about how to plan an abduction? Illegal porn? Nothing would surprise me. If LE continues to release this type of discovery to Desiree and Kaine and the worst is yet to come, you can bet Kaine will be pinning it on Terri. Maybe he sees it coming? Of course, it could well be Terri's if there's anything found, but could Kaine be bringing up her time on the computer over and over because HE knows what will be found and he's setting the stage to point the finger elsewhere.

I still think there's a fair chance Terri has a hand in whatever happened to Kyron. But, based on Kaine's continued lies, I'm now equally convinced he could be responsible. Terri doesn't seem to have covered her tracks in terms of what could be considered incriminating when a child goes missing. She's complained openly about the family life in conversations at the gym, in emails... Even opened up about Kyron's unhappiness to Desiree. Doesn't appear that she was acting in a way that suggests a premeditated abduction. Kaine, on the other hand, has lied about the family situation from the get-go and gone to great lengths to lay the blame for the problems in Kyron's home life at the feet of the over-sexed, alcoholic, child neglecting red-headed step-mom. Where the hell is Kyron!?

johnabelle wrote:AGREED!

Here is one of Terri's emails. Someone says they've not seen it before, but I have.
=====================================
Kati just said they have a never seen before email from TH to a friend. News at 11.
Quoting: Go ducks 1143384

I have a link saved to KATU breaking news that I clicked on after reading your post. Here's the link:

[link to www.katu.com]

As soon as I clicked on it, the 11:00 news started and that was the first story up. Here's what I remember being said:

KATU had an email that Terri had written to April stating stuff like, "Kaine never gave me any money and I couldn't go out (or maybe she said wasn't allowed to go out?). I blew through my 30,000 settlement money because Kaine made me pay $1000 a month. I wasn't working but I was taking care of the kids, doing all the housework, yardwork, clean gutters. I'm the one that takes care of Kyron since he was very little because Desiree didn't want to. I'm the one that discovered he needed glasses when he was 6 months old. I'm the one to take him to the doctor, Kaine didn't ever want to. Kaine always called me fat and told me to get back into body building.

Why do people insist on posting a link, yet not bother to post an accurate quote???
Maybe this was a typo on your part, but the emails were written in April, not to April.


Since I haven't seen it posted, here is the "correct" quote from http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html

“I have to ask him before I go out to meet anyone. I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn't - spent all of my 30k to do so.

“I am The one who was able to get him glasses (I noticed at 6 months when I was working with him but Kaine wouldn't go in to a doc until he was 2 years - yeah - he's farsighted 750)). He's on me about being fat. Wants me to do another show. Makes me pay $1000 a month to him for bills although it's my child support and unemployment. I do all the yard work, house work, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters.”


When Terri married Kaine, she took on responsibilities. She had 30,000, why shouldn't she help contribute to the household finances? Although complaining, Terri clearly says the 1,000 a month was for bills.
Terri says she stayed home with Kyron at birth, NOT "since he was very little".
At birth. Really? But I thought Desiree had custody until Kyron he was 2???
Sorta like she and Desiree were "friends" for years and "that's what friends do".
Yeah.
Terri and the truth don't seem to be acquainted, KWIM??

I want to know what year this e-mail was written. She stopped working in early 2008...her unemployement benefits should have been exhausted by 2010...I think that e-mail might have been written 4/2009.

Not that it changes too much.

Also, there has been a lot of discrepancy between what all three in the triangle describe around the time of the divorce & Kyron's birth.

Kaine & D both say that they were in the process of divorce when D got preggers.

And so they tried again.

I wonder if it was an oops or an opps on purpose...but that doesn't change too much.

They tried again...but Kaine says before the Kyron was born they spit, although they stayed living together.

There are a WHOLE slew of thngs that could have happened here, but the idea that Des has one perception and Kaine has a completely different is telling to me.

But most important to me is that they were in the throws of a divorce BEFORE she got pregnant. We all know a child before or after the actual birth does NOT improve a failing relationship.

Bottom line the marriage was over...with or without Terri's participation. The "affair" is a symptom not the cause.

After Kyron's birth Kaine moved out, and Terri moved in with him.

Kaine had Kyron during the days, Des at night.

Kaine worked and managed the daycare.

My guess is that Terri was that daycare. Especially since her mom says that she had moved in with Kaine after her divorce as a nanny.

She likely communicated with Des during this time. Who knows if Des knew they were having a relationship or not.

In the end, Terri was likely getting R&B in exchange for daycare/nannying Kyron.

Once a relationship formed that changed and with it went her independence and money. I can see how she can become resentful once this occurs. She gets to keep her money up until they are married.

This is some speculation though, but it would make all these stories actually line up.

Taken seperately, Kaine's story, Des's version & Terri's all sound as though they are talking about seperate families & people.

What I think makes it all make sense is IF Terri was actually getting paid in a sense for caring for Kyron early on, and maybe Des was not even aware of it...but I bet she was, but probably didn't know that the woman caring for her son was the same person who her X had an affair with...

The following information was posted by TJ on GLP. If it is true, then the reports that Terri was taking Kyron to the doctor because she felt he had been abused may also be true. This may also be the information that LE showed Desiree that has her so upset,

Howdy Canada. You have been here longer than all others, on this thread anyway.
All I know is that LE is calling around, they seem to be gathering all info that they can. Dede is not worried, she said she feels alot better now and is not stressed about them finding anything on her that will incriminate her.
She has done something to make people suspicious, she had no info to nail Terri with to give to LE. They pressured her, they still are.
She didn't "come up" with anything and they raked her over the coals.
They still are. I think she is telling me the truth.
No one else matters really.
I already said this earlier, dede found out Kyron was missing on the fifth, that was when she posted about Kyron and knowing who he was and how scary it was. I'm not sure which format it was, facebook I think.
Dede found out from the news I think.
She emialed Terri to offer help and support but got no responce at first.
It's in the text records, LE has it all.
Crap! I forgot the biggest gossip part.
I aske her if she knew of anything that may have shown anything that may have been a sign as to something wrong in the Horman house, or to Kyron.
She said yes.
Now mind you, she has told this to LE, from the begining they have known this from her.
She just now told me this today for the first time, just want that to be clear with everyone.
She said that Terri saw something that Kyron had done that scared her.
She said that one day kitty and Kyron were playing in the room, kitty was walking, toddling. She said that Terri walked in the kids playing and found Kyron with kitty pinned to the toy box or shelf and was humping her from behind. I aske dede if Terri was mad at kyron for it, she said that Terri showed concern for the behavior and wanted Kaine to handle it, she didn't say what came of the situation and didn't know much else about it.
I then asked her if the hard core sexting, the new Emails and that could maybe make her see anything differently, she paused for a while and said ya know, Terri didn't show hostility towards kyron for his actions, she was freaked out because she knew of the family history on Kaines side and wanted Kaine to acknowledge the problem. She don't know what came of the instance. I asked her if she still can't see Terri as being able to develop a dark quiet hatred for kyron, she said it was never shown to her if there was. I could hear in her voice she was not positive that Terri was innocent, but she said all the info would have to be prove legit, not someones interperatation of the emails.
Dede seems to be less confident of terris innocence IMO.
She has not said she thinks terri is guilty.
I just get the feeling she is not as certain anymore.
Now Terri seems to lie alot, the whole story could be made up by Terri and fed to Dede, I can't think of the reason to make it up tho.
But why didn't Terri tell someone herself that could help?
Even if Kaine had refused to acknowledge the problem( not saying that is what happened) I would think a mom would do something to stop the threat and danger to her daughter, seek professional help through DHS is what I would have done.
I wonder what a person like Terri would do.
Now that's a gossip bomb if I have ever said a d@mn thing here.
It is a motive.
Save kitty.
=====================================
Lots of people were upset that TJ posted the above information. This is his response to it.

Sorry if you took it to say that Kyron was a bad boy, he is not.
If the situation happened than it was a child acting out a traumatic expierence. It is what kids do when something is happening to them, look into it, that kind of behavior is what gets people to see a problem, ask a DHS person, I in no way would see Kyron as being responsible for his actions, he is a small child, not a criminal. The person responsible for teaching him the actions are the criminal, how would he know to do that?
I'm not blaming Kyron, and anyone who sees it that way is a stupid asshole with an issue for me.
It's a powerful thing to say, maybe I should just keep the scary stuff that people might get upset over a seceret.
That would help out alot huh?
I'm not painting Kyron as a bad kid, he was taught that by s sick person.
He is innocent to all wrongs. He was wronged.
Great sluther. Calm down. Your looking for a reason to hate.
Dede has told this to LE.
It was not hidden, it is known to them.
It was not known to you.
Now it is. Can you handle it?
Some of you might just be too sensitive I think.
Hate me for saying it out loud if you want, but I'm not keeping secerets.
Hate Dede for talking about it to LE too, but isn't that wwhat you all want?
More info? Or do you want is sensored and sugar coated?
There were some big problems going on in the family, they got so big and out of controll that a MFH was plotted and a child has disappeared.
But let's not talk about this part, keep it quiet, under the carpet.
That's how things get to this point, so if you want to scream and yell and call names for saying what has been said and done then fine.
But I had info and gave it. No secertes, no games, it's all
out on the table, if you have a problem with it TFB
WiKT;
I read you long post, I believe that Terri did it all.
Dede said she knew about some of the sexting but not all
of it, I think she is seeing Terri differently.
Don't think I'm giving Terri excuses, there are none.
The touching thing shows just another thing that would give Terri an other reason to snap. She did it.
Dede hasn't been reading along or keeping up with it.
That's all I said, I don't doubt any of the things said in the emails or the sexting, dedes in ability to see it my way bugs me too.
Didn't mean to pissoff anyone, and sure as hell wouldn't try to say Kyron did anything wrong or make him out as a bad child.
He had a bad expierence, if it was even true.
Quoting: TJ 1075464

Wow Tom, that was really uncalled for. U need to delete that. This someones child who was 7. Please delete that.
Quoting: Go Ducks 1143384

No, it is an important piece to this case, I was told this by Dede.
If you want to have the OP ban me go ahead.
It's a terrible thong to read, it is a problem that is all too common in the world, but everytime someone starts to talk about it everyone flips out and screams shut up! Dont say that! It's bullshit how dare you!
Well what would I be to keep it to myself? No better than the minds that do that to a child.
If you want that to be kept a seceret then your family is in danger.
That is one subject everyone should talk about openly, the secerecy insures it will keep happening.
I'm not making it up, it was said, it was told the investigators.
They know, remember the statement they made about knowing things that they didn't want to? Wel that sure as hell would qualify as such I would think. it's a huge problem in this country, I have heard estimates as high as one in four women on the planet have been molested by a family member, that's a lot of people, that's a huge problem, and it is taboo to talk about. That is the most f*ck*d up part of the problem, peoples desire to keep it quiet, they assign shame to the victem and cover for the perp.
All you who are protseting the info are doing just that, your not asking who could have taught those actions to a seven year old boy, you just want it hushed up, don't say anything, your terrible for saying that.
Well, it don't work like that for me, my sister was molested by my dad.
Her daddy betrayed her and some family members wanted it kept quiet,
they blamed her for it, they said it made her look bad to talk about it.
Do you think this makes Kyron look bad?
You f*ck*ng better not!!!!
If this is true, it explains many things, his behavior, terris bizarre and twisted hatered. It is no excuse for a normal person to harm a child for displaying the symptoms of being molested, or have been being groomed to be molested.
But a sick, intoxicated, self centered nutcase might react differently.
It would be a motive for a mind like that. Not to seek help and try to fix a problem, but eliminate it.
I agree with you Socal, your view on Terri is the same as mine.
But if it was true, then it is a puzzle piece that has to be dealt with.
If it will be easier for anyone to bash and hate the info go ahead,
I'm just a big phony anyway.
Just ignore it. That's how it seems to be for somany out there.
So just have the OP or trinity ban me, erase the post and we will just make this our little seceret too.
Ssssssshh.
=====================================
IMO if that information is in fact true then the person who took Kyron is the person who didn't want that information to be confirmed by medical testing. IMO that rules Terri out as a suspect.

Pardon my ignorance but what is GLP? TIA!

godlikeproductions

The following is my opinion regarding the information I posted from GLP.

I don't feel that Terri is lying about the incident and I don't feel based on information released to the public that she is guilty of Kyron's disappearance. I heard within a fews days of his disappearance that Kyron's doctors appointment was for the purpose of determining if he had been sexually abused and that he was to have a psych evaluation.

I see denial on the part of others which is not unusual when this type of information is brought out. And people who don't want it told will become angry at the person who brings it out. Oddly enough it is not uncommon for people to call it a lie and blame the victim and side with the one who is accused. Since Kyron is missing the person being blamed is Terri. I felt from the beginning when I heard this that Kyron's disappearance could have been the result of someone knowing that he had a doctor's appointment for determing if sexual abuse had occured, and the person responsible for the abuse didn't want that information to be known. Without those test even if Terri suspected abuse, she wouldn't be able to prove it.

Terri obviously didn't accuse Kaine, or else LE would not have allowed Kiara to be placed in his custody. Would they? unless they chose to be in denial also. If they did this knowing of allegations and did that anyway, Shame on them ! ! LE in their earlier reports did state that Kaine's brother Kristen was a suspect.

I haven't ruled Kaine out. As far as I'm concerned his words and actions make him look more suspect than Terri. As for Terri's lies, who knows. I haven't heard or seen much that she's supposedly said, except what Kaine and Desiree say she's said and a few emails that she has sent, that doesn't show her to be guilty as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure about some of these other emails that have recently turned up almost 6 months into the investigation, whether Terri sent them or not. But I can definitely tell you that Kaine is lying and contradicting himself, and is doing whatever to keep the investigation and peoples opinion focused on Terri. And people continue to uphold him and excuse him. What's up with that? For less than that Terri has been crucified in the public court of opinion.

There should not have been any confusion as to what day the doctor's appointment was because Mrs. Porter was supposed to fill out the paper work for the evaluation, and she should know whether or not she had returned that paper work to Terri that morning. If she did not then she would know that Terri was not referring to that Friday, but the next.

As I understand it, Terri first brought her suspicions of Kyron being abused to Kaine's attention in April when the incident occured and he refused to acknowledge it or to take any action to see if it might be so or not, so she made the doctor's appointment anyway.

I also lean toward Terri being innocent....probably for different reasons than most though.

Terri left Kyron at school....we KNOW that. So who was the last person to see Kyron? It was NOT Terri...correct? Why is it that in some cases...LE goes after the last person or persons to see a victim alove & other times...they seem to make a case against whomever they feel they can conjure up a case against?

Just sayin.......

I'm with you Fysty. I see it as being just plain stupid to think of Terri, not because she is perfect, but because she had a zillion opportunities to make him disappear everyday. Why choose a method that involves risking being spotted by so many people and have to include so many accomplices?

I think a lot of people stink in this child's life, but I still lean towards it being a stranger abduction, or at least, an acquaintance abduction. I do not see it as some big elaborate convoluted scheme.

Terri could have Kyron disappear from the yard while playing outside. Go to a park and wander off. Stay in the car while she ran into a store and never be seen again. Those would be hard to prove her guilty, and less likely to have witnesses, and involve no accomplices. That isn't what happened. So, I lean towards it being someone outside the immediate family.

While, it may end up being someone in the family, I still do not think of it as being Terri. She would have to be able to make all the pieces fit together for perfect timing for herself and all these so-called accomplices, all while dealing with a sick baby, making frequent stops, and squeezing in a workout in about a 3-4 hour period MAX. That is a lot of risk to have this whole thing completed and put together by all the parties when all those easier ways were conveniently available daily.

johnabelle wrote:The following is my opinion regarding the information I posted from GLP.

I heard within a fews days of his disappearance that Kyron's doctors appointment was for the purpose of determining if he had been sexually abused and that he was to have a psych evaluation.

"Heard" ? Could you please supply a link?


LE in their earlier reports did state that Kaine's brother Kristen was a suspect.

I've never seen any report naming anyone as a suspect. Do you have a link stating LE ever stated Kristian was a suspect?

As I understand it, Terri first brought her suspicions of Kyron being abused to Kaine's attention in April when the incident occured and he refused to acknowledge it or to take any action to see if it might be so or not, so she made the doctor's appointment anyway.

Again, could you supply a link?
So, the "abuse" allegedly happened in April? When did Terri make the appointment?? Is this the one she "supposedly" made on June 3rd?????? 2 weeks after he began "acting really weird"?? If so, why did she wait so long??

FystyAngel wrote:I also lean toward Terri being innocent....probably for different reasons than most though.

Terri left Kyron at school....we KNOW that. So who was the last person to see Kyron? It was NOT Terri...correct? Why is it that in some cases...LE goes after the last person or persons to see a victim alove & other times...they seem to make a case against whomever they feel they can conjure up a case against?

Just sayin.......
I'm sorry, but no, we don't KNOW that. We KNOW only that this is what Terri told LE, friends and family. We also KNOW Terri is known to LIE.

Armymom wrote:... We also KNOW Terri is known to LIE.

So is Kaine.

Actually, I have to edit this. Kaine is KNOWN to lie, as evidenced by his repeatedly changing stories about Terri and their lives together. And Kaine is saying Terri lied.

So, if a known liar accuses someone else of lying, does that make it true?

FystyAngel wrote: Why is it that in some cases...LE goes after the last person or persons to see a victim alove & other times...

Statistically speaking, those are the best odds.

In 84% of murder cases, the victim knows the assailant. It's typically a family member, especially where the spouse or child(ren) are the victim. If not, then it's a friend, neighbor, co-worker or acquaintance, like the weird looking clerk you always see at the convenient store.

FystyAngel wrote:they seem to make a case against whomever they feel they can conjure up a case against

That's because we've allowed the prosecutor's office and the police department (like the sheriff or chief of police) to become politicized.

Maybe the States should take the same approach that the federal government does, and appoint prosecutors, instead of having them be elected.

High profile cases are just that, high profile, and they reflect on the people involved. What do you think will happen in the next election for the Multnomah County Prosecutor? Or the Sheriff of Multnomah County?

If they haven't solved this case by then, it could reflect badly on them at the voting booth.

Your concerns are certainly warranted, and in some instances, have been validated by innocent people being sent to prison. I'm not really sure what else could be done about it, other than appointing prosecutors instead of electing them. As far as the sheriff/chief of police, I'm not sure what you can do about that. The US is unique with it's system of law enforcement and the way it is organized.

Other countries have want amounts to "state" police. There's no such thing as "village" police, or "city" police or "township" or "county" police or deputies. In Germany each state has its own police department, although police in all states wear the same uniform and drive the same vehicles and are equipped the same as far as weapons and such. The chief of police for each state is appointed, and then everyone else is hired through a civil service system.

I don't know that police-department politics is the problem, Mircea. Four years, the Pennsylvania State Police decided Todd Ewalt was his wife's murderer, and that was that. He was only cleared when the murder weapon was found in a truck-driver serial-killer's truck a few weeks later.

I think homicide investigators just zero in on the most-likely family member and then wait for the confession. In most instances, they'll be right. When they're not right, too bad. Just ask Kevin Fox, or Todd Ewalt, or maybe even Terri Horman.

Maat wrote: I see it as being just plain stupid to think of Terri, not because she is perfect, but because she had a zillion opportunities to make him disappear everyday. Why choose a method that involves risking being spotted by so many people and have to include so many accomplices?

The overwhelming vast majority of murders are not premeditated, rather they occur in the "heat of the moment," and that is particularly true of family oriented crimes. Even when they are premeditated, the level of sophistication is not very great.

Maat wrote:I think a lot of people stink in this child's life, but I still lean towards it being a stranger abduction, or at least, an acquaintance abduction. I do not see it as some big elaborate convoluted scheme.

Well, because some idiot had the brilliant idea to put 7th & 8th Graders in with 1st, 2nd and 3rd Graders, he was supposedly on his way to see some "cool electric exhibit" set up by older kids. It wouldn't be too far off the mark to suggest that Kyron made some comment in the way goofy 7 year olds do that the older boys misinterpreted as being "dissed" and took him outside and killed him. Of course, they don't drive, so the body would have to be very nearby. They could have shoved him a wall-locker somewhere. I guess it depends on how thoroughly the school grounds and surrounding area were searched.

Armymom wrote:We also KNOW Terri is known to LIE.

I don't see any evidence of that. The police have said nothing to that effect and neither have her friends. Only Kaine and Dizzyray have insinuated she's a liar, and that would be like Hitler calling Stalin a dictator.

Even then, if you look at the media reports and comments made by Kaine and Dizzyray, they never said she lied, they said she exaggerated things, which is not the same thing as lying.

In any event, it's irrelevant since it appears she has numerous firmly established alibis.

If you look at the initial reports, it was stated that the last time Kyron was seen was 9:00 AM, although police wouldn't say how they knew that. In addition to the fact that the police have no moral, ethical or legal obligation to let you know that the last time he was seen, they didn't comment because the police have a moral, ethical and legal obligation not to release the names of minors who may be witnesses to crimes. Minors are generally identified in police reports as PIs (Protected Identity) for obvious reasons. If Tanner wants to out himself, that's his business, but you ought to consider that the police may have other PI witnesses who saw Kyron at a time later than Tanner did, they just haven't mentioned it.

The question for the police, is did Terri leave, then return later to the school, and the answer is "no" she did not, and her alibis establish that.

So now we have to wonder why the police released Terri's e-mails to Dizzyray. They did that because they wanted Dizzyray to yell at Terri? No, Dizzyray has already done that repeatedly for the last 4 months. Who is Dizzyray yelling at? Kaine. Notice that the police did not release the e-mails to Kaine. That's a big clue that the police have shifted the focus of their investigation, and you should too.

[quote="lc"I don't know that police-department politics is the problem, Mircea. Four years, the Pennsylvania State Police decided Todd Ewalt was his wife's murderer, and that was that. He was only cleared when the murder weapon was found in a truck-driver serial-killer's truck a few weeks later.[/quote]

That's a union issue. Seriously, you can blame police unions for that.

The way the unions have it structured, you can only be a detective/investigator if you are a police officer, and to be a police officer, well that depends on each individual law enforcement jurisdiction.

A police officer, and a detective/investigator are not the same thing (but they are as far as the unions are concerned). Just because someone has the aptitude to be a police officer, it does not logically follow that they also have the aptitude to be a detective/investigator. Likewise, detectives don't necessarily make good police officers. Those are two very vastly different skill sets.

Once should be able to be hired as a detective/investigator (assuming one has the aptitude) without first being a police officer, but unions absolutely will not permit that.

I'll tell you a few things about the Cincinnati Police. About 12 years ago, you didn't need to have a high school diploma or a GED to be a police officer. I'm not kidding. The written test that you take to be a police officer has nothing to do with law enforcement at any level. The test asks questions like:

I like to read books:

a) Strongly Agree
b) Somewhat Agree
c) Don't Know
d) Somewhat Disagree
e) Strongly Disagree

I am not kidding. There are 150 questions just like that on the test.

And to work your way up through the ranks to sergeant, where you then have a shot to take the written test to become a detective, all of those tests are on department policies and procedures, not on performing actual law enforcement or investigations.

So, yes, you have people masquerading as police detectives and investigators who don't have the first freaking clue what they're doing, and probably most of what they know they get by watching TV, which is actually kind of frightening.

Oddly, if you have the aptitude and the experience to be a detective/investigator, you can be hired directly by the federal government and state governments, but you cannot be hired directly by any police department, and again, that has to do with their unions.

Anyway, the Cincinnati PD had quite a few embarrassing moments, like when they hired an admitted "former" drug addict who then began using drugs then filed a claim for worker's compensation which was approved. At least now they require 2 years of college, although they still do not require a degree of any kind.

It's kind of scary to think that you might be unfortunate enough to have your life in the hands of people aren't exactly competent (and who might have an agenda).

I'm sure there's a good book somewhere down the road in Kyron's case that will make someone rich-n-famous.

Someone asked what derailed the investigation, well, this idiot here is partly responsible:

McCain said, "It's all about Terri, poor, poor Terri, and not a single concern about Kyron. She's already making alibis, talking about a chaperone and on and on about doctor's appointments."

So far everything he has said has turned out be false. He's an attention-whore and opportunist who was trying to get elected as the Multnomah County Sheriff but ended up withdrawing from the race because nobody would endorse him.

I wonder why.

[quote="Armymom"][quote="johnabelle"]The following is my opinion regarding the information I posted from GLP.

I heard within a fews days of his disappearance that Kyron's doctors appointment was for the purpose of determining if he had been sexually abused and that he was to have a psych evaluation.

"Heard" ? Could you please supply a link?


LE in their earlier reports did state that Kaine's brother Kristen was a suspect.

I've never seen any report naming anyone as a suspect. Do you have a link stating LE ever stated Kristian was a suspect?

As I understand it, Terri first brought her suspicions of Kyron being abused to Kaine's attention in April when the incident occured and he refused to acknowledge it or to take any action to see if it might be so or not, so she made the doctor's appointment anyway.

Again, could you supply a link?
So, the "abuse" allegedly happened in April? When did Terri make the appointment?? Is this the one she "supposedly" made on June 3rd?????? 2 weeks after he began "acting really weird"?? If so, why did she wait so long??


The original reports regarding the doctor's appointment have been changed so I'm not sure if there is a link. I'd have to go back through my post on JDMH when I have time, to see if I had posted one at that time. The comments about when the alledge incident occured is on GLP and even though I think most of them are missing a few rungs from their ladder over there, they are not going to post, or allow anything to be posted there, that's going to make anyone other than Terri, or maybe those who they claimed helped her, look guilty.

I'm not sure when the appointment was made, only that Mrs. Porter was supposed to fill out the paper work for the psych exam before the actual doctor's appointment.

Quite contrary to what many believe, you don't just rush your kid to the doctor and get instant results, unless it's considered to be a life threatening medical emergency.
My grandson colasped at job corp, for unknown reasons. On the 7th of October, we took him to the doctor who thought it was possibly a heart problem. The earliest he could get in to see the heart specialist was 19 days later. It took two days to get the results back from the specialist. His doctor called to let us know there's a problem, but not sure what, so they made another appointment with the heart specialist for the 8th of December.He is still having what are considered minor problems, not life threatening, but worrisome for us.

When my daughter was 11, it took weeks to get her tested to determine what might be causing her seizures. Doctor's eventually said she had epilispey when she was 17. You don't just walk into a doctor's office and get immediate results, it doesn't work that way, and I'm surprised people who have children don't know that, unless they have healthy children. My next to the oldest granddaughter is 13. She was diagnosed with a hole in her heart at age 2. They hoped it would heal but it hasn't. She has been seeing a heart specialist for years, and doctors are now saying she's going to have to have surgery. Her next appointment is December 20th.

I mentioned that because so many people have a problem with how long it took Terri to have made an appointment for Kyron to see the doctor instead of just rushing him in, if there was really something wrong with him, like she claimed, and that is one of the reasons no one believed her.

This is the link concerning Kristian Horman

When aked if Kristian Horman's child molestation conviction in Seattle WA was part of the investigation in Kyron's case in Portland, Multnoma County Sheriff's office spokeswomen, Lt. Mary Lindstand, said "Yes, I can say that it is part of the investigation."

http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-seattle/kyron-horman-update-details-emerge-about-kyron-s-uncle-charged-child-molestation-case

Maat wrote:

Armymom wrote:... We also KNOW Terri is known to LIE.

So is Kaine.

Actually, I have to edit this. Kaine is KNOWN to lie, as evidenced by his repeatedly changing stories about Terri and their lives together. And Kaine is saying Terri lied.

So, if a known liar accuses someone else of lying, does that make it true?

What lies has Kaine told?
I think in the beginning, Kaine was in denial. I also believe that upon reflection, things became clear that he just never noticed before. Hind-sight is 20/20


This interview is interesting. It's from July and he talks about Terri's lies and drinking and substance abuse. He stumbles over some words at one point. That doesn't mean deception, you have to remember, he was limited on exactly WHAT and how much info he was to release.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/day_of_kyron_hormans_disappear.html

[quote="Mircea"]

Maat wrote:

Armymom wrote:We also KNOW Terri is known to LIE.

I don't see any evidence of that. The police have said nothing to that effect and neither have her friends. Only Kaine and Dizzyray have insinuated she's a liar, and that would be like Hitler calling Stalin a dictator.
I posted a link in my last post that includes audio of an interview by Kaine and Desiree in July. Please listen to that. Kaine clearly talks about the lies Terri has told. How she told her friends that she and Desiree were friends, how Terri told her family and friends that she has been Kyrons caregiver since he was an infant etc.
Even then, if you look at the media reports and comments made by Kaine and Dizzyray, they never said she lied, they said she exaggerated things, which is not the same thing as lying.

"exaggerate"? I've heard them use the words lie & fiction, but not exaggerate. And even if they did, you don't think an exaggeration is a lie?

In any event, it's irrelevant since it appears she has numerous firmly established alibis.

What are these "numerous firmly established alibis of which you speak????
I've heard her alibis, but firmly established??
The hour and 29 minutes in which she drove K around trying to get her to sleep?? Is that one of the firmly established alibis you are talking about?
If you look at the initial reports, it was stated that the last time Kyron was seen was 9:00 AM, although police wouldn't say how they knew that. In addition to the fact that the police have no moral, ethical or legal obligation to let you know that the last time he was seen, they didn't comment because the police have a moral, ethical and legal obligation not to release the names of minors who may be witnesses to crimes. Minors are generally identified in police reports as PIs (Protected Identity) for obvious reasons. If Tanner wants to out himself, that's his business, but you ought to consider that the police may have other PI witnesses who saw Kyron at a time later than Tanner did, they just haven't mentioned it.

The question for the police, is did Terri leave, then return later to the school, and the answer is "no" she did not, and her alibis establish that.

So now we have to wonder why the police released Terri's e-mails to Dizzyray. They did that because they wanted Dizzyray to yell at Terri? No, Dizzyray has already done that repeatedly for the last 4 months. Who is Dizzyray yelling at? Kaine. Notice that the police did not release the e-mails to Kaine. That's a big clue that the police have shifted the focus of their investigation, and you should too.

Kaine has said he was there when Desiree was informed of the emails.
1:30-35 and 6:27 and specifically 8:53 on the video.
http://www.kptv.com/kyron-horman/25797873/detail.html

tish wrote:It is just my opinion that in Kaine's case and watching his different interviews at the same time that his hind-sight isn't 20/20 - it's embellished. In the first interviews he says there were no warning signs, Terri was a good mother, etc. Then he starts to embellish telling stories of neglect, etc - those are 2 very different takes on what was supposed to be reality - so which is true? the early admissions of good parenting? or the later and perhaps tainted stories of neglect? it really can't be both - to me, that is what makes him lose credibility.
I do believe that sometimes the other parent can be completely caught off guard, but I don't think that's the case here.

And it's my opinion that it is a combination of hind-sight and what info and how much he has been able to release to the media.

Armymom,

Why do you say Terri has been known to lie????

Says who??????

Are you basing this on what LE say?????

I think it is sad that you believe what you hear..

Did you hear that LE didnt even go and look at the 2 landfills that are both allegedly 6 miles away?

Do you believe this may have been the work of some sick monster pig ???

Do you think Terri had a motive ????

Why wud she have premediatated this heinous crime and used the school that was having a big function that day??

No one in any official capacity has ever confirmed any deception by Terri in anything I have read. Only the Holy Trinity (Kaine, Desiree, and Tony) has done that. Now, if you have ANY official and verified confirmation of Terri's deception, feel free to share with those of us less informed.

awaiting justice wrote:Armymom,

Why do you say Terri has been known to lie????

Says who??????

Are you basing this on what LE say?????

I think it is sad that you believe what you hear..

Did you hear that LE didnt even go and look at the 2 landfills that are both allegedly 6 miles away?

Do you believe this may have been the work of some sick monster pig ???

Do you think Terri had a motive ????

Why wud she have premediatated this heinous crime and used the school that was having a big function that day??

Maat wrote:No one in any official capacity has ever confirmed any deception by Terri in anything I have read. Only the Holy Trinity (Kaine, Desiree, and Tony) has done that. Now, if you have ANY official and verified confirmation of Terri's deception, feel free to share with those of us less informed.

First off, let me make something clear. From day one, I have never suspected Terri based on the fact that she's a stepmom. I know several stepmom's and they are wonderful mom's. I never suspected Terri because of her "hitting the gym" comment on FB or that she even WENT to the gym (Kaine was there too). It is not based on the fact that she didn't speak to the media in the beginning. (At the gym when she ignored reporters, Kaine ignored them as well) It is not based on Terri saying she "dropped Kyron off" and didn't walk with him to his classroom (at least not in the beginning, which I will get to later) I never believed (or even suspected) the science fair pic was photoshopped.
My belief that Terri was responsible for Kyron's disappearance didn't begin until that first press conference the family gave (June11th?)
Before that, I had no idea who could have been responsible, although I didn't believe it was a stranger abduction.
The first red flag for me was of course her body language at the first press conference. Not just Terri's body language, but Desiree and Tony's. It didn't make me believe she was personally responsible, but that she KNEW something. I will not bore you with the specifics as I'm sure you have heard it all before.
As the days went on, more things gave me that hinky feeling. Nothing concrete, just odd, you know?
The more I found, the more I was convinced Terri was lying because of the things her family and friends have said, NOT Desiree and Kaine.

This was written on the 5th of June, just one day after Kyron disappeared.
Several things said by family and friends:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html


"Horman, who has raised Kyron since he was an infant"


Carol Moulton said that Kaine, 36, and Terri, 40, have been together for seven or eight years and that they have been married for four or five years. The couple have an 18-month-old girl.

Again from her mom:
"Terri has raised Kyron," her mother said. "She's been with him since he was an infant. She's as much of a mom as the mom is because the parents had separated about the time that Kyron was born."


According to Terri's close friend Jennifer Jones:
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20397133,00.html

Before Kyron was born, Horman was friends with his mother, Desiree Young.

"Kaine being a new father didn't know how to raise a baby by himself,'' says Jones. "So Terri stepped in-and being friends with Desiree-said, 'I will come and I will help you take care of Kyron.'" Jones says after the divorce was final, a relationship blossomed between Kaine and Horman, "
Terri's father:
In essence, says (Larry) Moulton, Horman "raised Kyron since he was in the cradle."

We now know for a FACT:
Terri and Desiree were NOT friends.
Terri did NOT raise Kyron from infancy.

One of the biggies for me:
According to close friend Jaymie Finster, "Horman told Finster that the child's teacher was new, in her first year of teaching, and was hard of hearing in one ear. "She doesn't know if she understood her," Finster said."
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html
The FACT is, Kyron's teacher was NOT "new" and certainly not "in her first year of teaching". She was first licensed in 2000. She has been with SkyLine elementary since 2008.
http://www.tspc.state.or.us/LDisplay_Individual.asp?id=3939893V793

Terri failed her polygraphs.
If Terri didn't fail her polygraph, excuse me, if Terri's polygraph didn't show inconclusive, why did Terri have to take so many?
From her close friend Jaymie Finster:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Finster said Horman was very down. "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything."


Then there are Terri's emails from June 5th:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html
I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic - had to been 300 people running around - no coordination ...”

But…wait…. I thought Terri told LE she left the school at 8:45!!!
Check it out for yourself. This email is the ONLY place I've read, from DAY ONE, that says 9:00.
Then there were Kyron's "seizures"
"The past 2 weeks he's been acting really weird. Staring off into space. Can't remember anything. Walks into the room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on. The doc thinks that he is having mini seizures and I made an appt on Thursday for next Friday to have him checked out."

What?? "Acting really weird"? "Staring off into space"??
"Walks into a room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on"??
"The doc thinks it's mini seizures"?
Her son exhibits symptoms of this sort for 2 WEEKS, the dr. suspects "mini seizures" yet leaves him to walk to his class BY HIMSELF with "300 people" mingling around on a totally "chaotic" day where there was "no coordination"?
I think you get my point.
In order to believe that the things Desiree and Kaine have said against Terri in the press are NOT true, that LE KNOWS they're not true, you would have to believe this is a conspiracy against Terri of epic proportions. You would have to believe without a doubt that PPS, Intel, MCSO, the District Attorney's office, the FBI, (along with all the other agencies involved in those early days) her cell phone company, friends who, in the beginning believed and supported her as well as the entire court system are all in on this conspiracy. That although NOTHING points to Terri being responsible, you would have to believe records have been changed, text messages and emails were forged, and LE is too incompetent to realize it.
That LE is allowing Kaine and Kaine alone to direct and control the investigation.You would have to believe that all these agencies and the people connected to them are totally focused on seeing Terri destroyed in the minds of the public and convicted for a crime she did CLEARLY had nothing to do with.
Realistically, what would their motive be?? Who would benefit from this??

So, no one has confirmed any deception from Terri. Lots of other people have said things, but the officials have never stated she had been deceptive in any manner.

Correct?

I have found the Kaine/Dez/Tony trio quite unbelievable and disingenuous. I think even Dez, who has extensive personal knowledge of how Kaine works, is now suprized at all the stuff he kept from her- and that has to be awful.

But here's my prob: If I dropped my kid off at the elementary school, left to go home and my child was missing at the end of the day, I might be the last known person seen with her, but that certainly would not make me guilty of harming her. That would just make me last know person to see her alive......... except for the person who abducted/harmed her. kh

Well, when I saw the first presser and Terri's reaction at it, I figured she was married to a cad who was probably blaming her for Kyron's disappearance. He looked like he was hugging her for show. And she no doubt could feel the coolness. This presser was after LE interviewed her so I'm sure she feared that all eyes were on her.

LE is not about to speak up if Desiree and Kaine are setting Terri up or lying about what is what where she is concerned. They are professionals involved in an investigation, not marriage counselors or PR people.

And, yes, these emails could be faked or sent by Kaine to make his wife look dirty and guilty. Why? To keep the attention off of him. At this stage of the game anything is possible. Terri may have issues that make her look bad but, unlike Casey Anthony, Terri has not lied to LE as far as we know.

Armymom,

I find it sad that you base such a STRONG opposing opinion of Terri,

what you have replied to me is that you feel like she is a liar becasue of MEDIA REPORTED THIRD HAND news...
oh and BODY language..

Respectfully, I personally hope you havent, and wont ever sit on a real jury..

I feel like you arent alone in the way you judge, and this is why there are so many innocent ppl sitting in jail. and so many monster pigs on the loose (because ppl dont want to believe that random nightmares walk around and take children (kill ppl) for no good reason other than to satisfy their sick compulsions..

Clealry, you believe her to be guilty, and have not afforded her the right of INNOCENCE before proven guilty...

PPl judged Kevin Fox, the way you have judged Terri...

I encourage you to read up on a few stories like this that come to mind (where the obvious person is accused (for no good reason) maybe you will look at this case with a different set of eyes..

Riley Fox (father accused) failed polys
Jessica Lunsford (grandmother accused)failed polys
Gary Ridgeway (the green river killer) failed polys
Amber Dubois (stepfather accused)failed polys
Jaycee Dugaard (stepfather accused)failed polys
The Stalk murders (grandson and friend accused) failed poly

------------------------------

I have giiven you a few cases that come to mind that stereotypical thinking led to false accusations/convictions becasue of the exact same thinking that you appear to have ..

There are tons of cases like this one...

Have you considered the fact that Terri had no motive? and clearly no found evidence...

If you look at cases like the Caylee Anthony case, clearly hard evidenece is not hard to find in these type of killings where a cllear motive is proven and by many ....I will admit that the being able to SEE the docs in the Casey case, is definitley more clear... we heard the blatant lies right off the bat...

We havent heard of any in this case... As far as miscommunications (dr's appoint... teachers hearing aility.. well that cud be the absolute truth ..as opposed to hearing Casey lie about where she dropped off Caylee to a residence where the alleged tenant never ever lived)

As a justice seeker, I beseige you to read to help educate yourself on how looking at the obvious and creating doubt by silly circumstantial evidence ultimaltely robs the victim of the justice and even his life, where he may still be alive ...

You never answered if you are satisfied to known that 2 LANDFILLS, BOTH within a 6 mile are where allegedly NEVER CHECKED??????

Armymom wrote:We now know for a FACT:
Terri and Desiree were NOT friends.
Terri did NOT raise Kyron from infancy.

Hill pointed out Desiree Young and Terri Horman have a history.

She said, "They were very good friends. Terri helped take care of Kyron when Desiree had medical procedures in Canada, when he was a very little boy.

Hill (the news anchor) obtained that from interviews with Captain Reiser and Deputy Moore. Looks like a major fail to me.

Armymom wrote:One of the biggies for me:
According to close friend Jaymie Finster, "Horman told Finster that the child's teacher was new, in her first year of teaching, and was hard of hearing in one ear. "She doesn't know if she understood her," Finster said."
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html
The FACT is, Kyron's teacher was NOT "new" and certainly not "in her first year of teaching". She was first licensed in 2000. She has been with SkyLine elementary since 2008.

If she has been at Skyline since 2008, then she is "new." When I was in high school, we had a "new" civics and government teacher (the new head football coach), and in spite of his being "new" he had been teaching for 12 years. From Terri's point of view (and not yours), the appearance and demeanor of the "teacher," and even comments made by the "teacher" may have given Terri the impression that she was in her first year of teaching. I certainly wouldn't waste my time contacting the state to determine when a "teacher" got their license, and I don't doubt that Terri would have wasted her time either. Obviously, you or someone else wasted their time looking at licensing info.

This is definitely an anthill being made out of a mole-hill.

Armymom wrote:Terri failed her polygraphs.

No, she didn't.

Armymom wrote:If Terri didn't fail her polygraph, excuse me, if Terri's polygraph didn't show inconclusive, why did Terri have to take so many?

The nature of the case. Terri raised Kyron since he was infant. She has an emotional attachment (unless she happens to be diagnosed as a sociopath). Polygraphs record respiration, abdominal respiration, sweating and cardio-vascular (blood pressure/pulse). The mere mention of Kyron's name will elicit an emotional response which will register on the polygraph. There is no way to tell if that response indicates deception during an initial polygraph. What the polygraph operator wants to see, is consistent responses over time.

There's also the issue of additional facts and evidence that arise as a natural course of the investigation. That would be another reason to call Terri back for more polygraphs.

If I had to list all the cases where innocent persons were given more than one polygraph, I'd be here for the next 30 years typing. It is not unusual at all.

Armymom wrote:Then there are Terri's emails from June 5th:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html
I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic - had to been 300 people running around - no coordination ...”

But…wait…. I thought Terri told LE she left the school at 8:45!!!
Check it out for yourself. This email is the ONLY place I've read, from DAY ONE, that says 9:00.

I'm glad you're not a police officer and hope you're never a juror. I seriously doubt she paid attention to the time when she left the school. I don't wear a watch and haven't since 1986 when I lost my watch (and wallet) after we crash-landed about 100 meters off-shore in the Baltic Sea coming out of Flensburg (Germany). I went to Kroger's last night to get some sour cream. I have no idea what time I left. I only know that after being in the store a few minutes (or maybe 10 minutes, who really knows) they were announcing that the store was closing in 20 minutes. I have no idea what time I got home either. I may have walked fast or slow or somewhere in the middle in which case it might have taken 8 to 18 minutes to walk home.

The point is, most people don't pay attention to time, unless they have a reason to do so. I think at this point, it doesn't really matter, since the police know where she was and what she was doing.

Armymom wrote:
Then there were Kyron's "seizures"
"The past 2 weeks he's been acting really weird. Staring off into space. Can't remember anything. Walks into the room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on. The doc thinks that he is having mini seizures and I made an appt on Thursday for next Friday to have him checked out."

What?? "Acting really weird"? "Staring off into space"??
"Walks into a room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on"??
"The doc thinks it's mini seizures"?
Her son exhibits symptoms of this sort for 2 WEEKS, the dr. suspects "mini seizures" yet leaves him to walk to his class BY HIMSELF with "300 people" mingling around on a totally "chaotic" day where there was "no coordination"?
I think you get my point.

And your point seems to be stretching things to the point of incredulity.

Well, before he was walking to a classroom by himself, he was walking to the bus-stop, then riding the bus to school, then walking to his classroom and he was riding the bus back to the bus-stop, so what's your point?

My point would be that she didn't treat him any differently on that day, than she had on all previous days, except that she drove him to school on that day because of the science fair thing.

And how many parents of truly epileptic children who have gran mal seizures (which can be harmful -- even deadly) hold the hands of their children every minute of their lives? None. So he's having what appears to be a mild form of seizure on a periodic basis. He's in no danger to himself or others, so there's no reason to panic. There is reason to be concerned and call a doctor, which is what happened.

And then there's Kyron. If he wasn't feeling well, he would have told Terri, and she would have stayed with him, or took him home.

Armymom wrote: In order to believe that the things Desiree and Kaine have said against Terri in the press are NOT true, that LE KNOWS they're not true, you would have to believe this is a conspiracy against Terri of epic proportions.

No, not "epic proportions" just Kaine whipping Dizzyray into a frenzy to attack Terri except that now Dizzyray isn't friends with Kaine any more.

Armymom wrote: You would have to believe without a doubt that PPS, Intel, MCSO, the District Attorney's office, the FBI, (along with all the other agencies involved in those early days) her cell phone company, friends who, in the beginning believed and supported her as well as the entire court system are all in on this conspiracy. That although NOTHING points to Terri being responsible, you would have to believe records have been changed, text messages and emails were forged, and LE is too incompetent to realize it.

Funny you should mention that.

the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.

Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.

In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman

In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.

I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.

That's a nice analysis from blinkoncrime.

I think the comments by the police regarding the investigation (saying what they have discovered is shocking) are quite appropriate.

Aren't you going to ask why the whole issue of "sexting" is now passé? You won't see Kaine beat that dead horse again.

Armymom wrote:That LE is allowing Kaine and Kaine alone to direct and control the investigation.You would have to believe that all these agencies and the people connected to them are totally focused on seeing Terri destroyed in the minds of the public and convicted for a crime she did CLEARLY had nothing to do with.
Realistically, what would their motive be?? Who would benefit from this??

Terri would benefit.

How do you know she isn't helping them now?

You do whatever you need to do. If you need to allow Kaine to "run" the investigation or at least let him believe he's running the investigation, then that's what you do, especially if you think Kaine will eventually forget what lies he's told and incriminate himself.

Armymom,

Heres another one...
Tanya Rider... she was soooooooooooooo lucky to be found alive after 8 days...

her hubby had to beg for help and LE wudnt help because HE WAS THE SUSPECT........

Oh and her co worker..said hubby was acting STRANGE... the last day she saw him.................. BODY LANGUAGE hmmmmmmmmmm????????????????????????

awaiting justice wrote:Armymom,

I find it sad that you base such a STRONG opposing opinion of Terri,

what you have replied to me is that you feel like she is a liar becasue of MEDIA REPORTED THIRD HAND news...
oh and BODY language..
Just because it's "MEDIA REPORTED THIRD HAND news" doesn't make it untrue. If these friends never said the things the media reported, why have we heard no denials from any of them?
And believe it or not, body language is a very real science.

Respectfully, I personally hope you havent, and wont ever sit on a real jury..
I feel like you arent alone in the way you judge, and this is why there are so many innocent ppl sitting in jail. and so many monster pigs on the loose (because ppl dont want to believe that random nightmares walk around and take children (kill ppl) for no good reason other than to satisfy their sick compulsions..

As a matter of fact, I have sat on a real jury, twice. And I had no problem weighing the evidence that was presented in an unbiased manner.
I've found that those who support Terri seem to forget that as citizens, we DO have the right to our opinions. The problem with most people who defend Terri is that they get the "court of public opinion" and a "court of law" mixed up. They don't seem to realize that if Terri is ever arrested and tried, it will NOT be the court of public opinion that will have the final say.
Clealry, you believe her to be guilty, and have not afforded her the right of INNOCENCE before proven guilty...

The correct term is "The PRESUMPTION of innocence."
presumption of innocence applies to our legal system.
It applies to our judges, prosecutors, defense attorneys and juries.
Nowhere is it codified in American law that an average citizen on the street must assume either that a defendant is innocent, or that a defendant who has been freed did not commit the crime in question.
Nor do our laws state that it is wrong to state a belief that someone is guilty. It would work against the First Amendment to demand that all citizens agree with all jury verdicts. The question of slander is often raised, but the law of slander generally does not apply to allegations made in the public record in court. At any rate, slander is a different often-misunderstood issue, and worthy of its own, separate discussion.

http://www.suite101.com/content/the-meaning-of-innocent-until-proven-guilty-a131086#ixzz15tAAcDGT


PPl judged Kevin Fox, the way you have judged Terri...

I encourage you to read up on a few stories like this that come to mind (where the obvious person is accused (for no good reason) maybe you will look at this case with a different set of eyes..

Riley Fox (father accused) failed polys
Jessica Lunsford (grandmother accused)failed polys
Gary Ridgeway (the green river killer) failed polys
Amber Dubois (stepfather accused)failed polys
Jaycee Dugaard (stepfather accused)failed polys
The Stalk murders (grandson and friend accused) failed polys
------------------------------

I have giiven you a few cases that come to mind that stereotypical thinking led to false accusations/convictions becasue of the exact same thinking that you appear to have ..

There are tons of cases like this one...

Awaiting Justice, I am aware that there have been people wrongfully accused and even convicted of crimes they didn't commit. I totally understand. I am also aware that there are many MORE people tried and convicted who were in fact guilty of the crimes of which they were accused. I don't know what to tell you. Do we simply NOT investigate people when there is no "smoking gun"?

Have you considered the fact that Terri had no motive? and clearly no found evidence...
How do you know she didn't have a motive?? And no, we don't know that there was no evidence found. We have no idea what LE has or does not have.


As a justice seeker, I beseige you to read to help educate yourself on how looking at the obvious and creating doubt by silly circumstantial evidence ultimaltely robs the victim of the justice and even his life, where he may still be alive ...
Silly circumstantial evidence??? As a "justice seeker" surely you are aware that in many cases, circumstantial evidence is the only evidence linking an accused to a crime. Direct evidence may not exist.
You never answered if you are satisfied to known that 2 LANDFILLS, BOTH within a 6 mile are where allegedly NEVER CHECKED??????

I haven't heard about the landfills until you mentioned them and honestly forgot to include my comment to my response. Sorry about that.
I did a check on landfills near the school.
‎
Metro Central Transfer Station‎
6161 Northwest 61st Avenue, Portland, OR‎ - (503) 234-3000‎ - 5.9 mi SE
Category: Landfill

Washington County Drop Box Services, Inc.
21435 Northwest Nicholas Court, Hillsboro, OR‎ - (503) 439-1303‎ - 5.5 mi S
Category: Services - Dumps & Landfills

Were they checked and if not why not? I honestly do not have an answer to this. I'm not aware of every place LE checked. Do you know for a FACT that these landfills weren't checked?

Mircea wrote:

Armymom wrote:We now know for a FACT:
Terri and Desiree were NOT friends.
Terri did NOT raise Kyron from infancy.

Hill pointed out Desiree Young and Terri Horman have a history.

She said, "They were very good friends. Terri helped take care of Kyron when Desiree had medical procedures in Canada, when he was a very little boy.

Hill (the news anchor) obtained that from interviews with Captain Reiser and Deputy Moore. Looks like a major fail to me.


Hill, Reiser and Moore?
What about both parents, J. Finster and A. Howards? AT LEAST FOUR Friends and family members who told reporters Terri raised Kyron from "infancy, cradle, 3 days old"
Looks to me like the "major fail" was Terri lying to friends and family

Armymom wrote:One of the biggies for me:
According to close friend Jaymie Finster, "Horman told Finster that the child's teacher was new, in her first year of teaching, and was hard of hearing in one ear. "She doesn't know if she understood her," Finster said."
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html
The FACT is, Kyron's teacher was NOT "new" and certainly not "in her first year of teaching". She was first licensed in 2000. She has been with SkyLine elementary since 2008.

If she has been at Skyline since 2008, then she is "new." When I was in high school, we had a "new" civics and government teacher (the new head football coach), and in spite of his being "new" he had been teaching for 12 years. From Terri's point of view (and not yours), the appearance and demeanor of the "teacher," and even comments made by the "teacher" may have given Terri the impression that she was in her first year of teaching. I certainly wouldn't waste my time contacting the state to determine when a "teacher" got their license, and I don't doubt that Terri would have wasted her time either. Obviously, you or someone else wasted their time looking at licensing info.

This is definitely an anthill being made out of a mole-hill.

Wow, talk about stretching and straining to make something fit.
Terri referring to Ms. Porter as "new" was clearly in reference to "new teacher" not "New to Skyline". Note "first year". Ms. Porter has been at Skyline as long as Kyron had. Would you refer to him as a "new" student??
Also, from the first reports in the investigation were that Terri voluntees quite often at Skyline and works closely with Ms. Porter. They were both teachers. I'm sure it would have come up in the conversation at some point in their conversations, so there would have been no need for Terri to "waste her time" to find out.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html
As for your comment "Obviously you or someone else wasted their time looking at licensing info."
Are you serious? You consider my trying to be informed, to attempt to separate fact from fiction as "wasting time"?? Apparently, you need to "waste" YOUR time doing the same thing.JMO : )
Terri lied. Plain and simple, you just don't want to admit it.

Armymom wrote:Terri failed her polygraphs.

No, she didn't.

Armymom wrote:If Terri didn't fail her polygraph, excuse me, if Terri's polygraph didn't show inconclusive, why did Terri have to take so many?

The nature of the case. Terri raised Kyron since he was infant. She has an emotional attachment (unless she happens to be diagnosed as a sociopath). Polygraphs record respiration, abdominal respiration, sweating and cardio-vascular (blood pressure/pulse). The mere mention of Kyron's name will elicit an emotional response which will register on the polygraph. There is no way to tell if that response indicates deception during an initial polygraph. What the polygraph operator wants to see, is consistent responses over time.
I'm sorry, I had no idea you were the polygrapher in this investigation. None of us knows what areas of the test elicited a reaction on the polygraph. What makes you think it was in reaction to Kyron's name? Maybe the reaction was from the word "Sauvie Island" or the word "timeline" or even "Timbuktu". I don't have the answer to this and neither do you. Also, from your way of thinking, if Kyron's name was the reactor, then the results would have been the same for all the parents. Unless of course you're suggesting Terri had more of an emotion attachment to Kyron than anyone else.

There's also the issue of additional facts and evidence that arise as a natural course of the investigation. That would be another reason to call Terri back for more polygraphs.
But that's not why Terri was upset. Terri was UPSET that she was being the focus on the investigation. If Terri was being questioned multiple times simply as a natural course of the investigation, then all it would have taken is for Terri to ask Tony, who could have assured her this was normal procedure. LE would have assured her it was normal procedure. Something threw up a red flag for the investigators. We the public do NOT know what that red flag was.

If I had to list all the cases where innocent persons were given more than one polygraph, I'd be here for the next 30 years typing. It is not unusual at all.
I never said it was unusual. My point was, TERRI felt LE was accusing her by requesting more polygraphs. Guilt complex on her part.

Armymom wrote:Then there are Terri's emails from June 5th:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html
I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic - had to been 300 people running around - no coordination ...”

But…wait…. I thought Terri told LE she left the school at 8:45!!!
Check it out for yourself. This email is the ONLY place I've read, from DAY ONE, that says 9:00.

I'm glad you're not a police officer and hope you're never a juror. I seriously doubt she paid attention to the time when she left the school. "I don't wear a watch and haven't since 1986 when I lost my watch (and wallet) after we crash-landed about 100 meters off-shore in the Baltic Sea coming out of Flensburg (Germany). I went to Kroger's last night to get some sour cream. I have no idea what time I left. I only know that after being in the store a few minutes (or maybe 10 minutes, who really knows) they were announcing that the store was closing in 20 minutes. I have no idea what time I got home either. I may have walked fast or slow or somewhere in the middle in which case it might have taken 8 to 18 minutes to walk home.
The point is, most people don't pay attention to time, unless they have a reason to do so. I think at this point, it doesn't really matter, since the police know where she was and what she was doing.

And I would completely agree with you if it weren't for one little thing. In the early reports there is this little nugget "At 8:45 a.m. WHEN THE BELL RANG (caps are mine and used for emphasis) Terri walked her stepson down the hall close to his class.
THAT is how Terri knew the time.
LE has a case to investigate, so yes, her time most certainly DOES matter.

Armymom wrote:
Then there were Kyron's "seizures"
"The past 2 weeks he's been acting really weird. Staring off into space. Can't remember anything. Walks into the room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on. The doc thinks that he is having mini seizures and I made an appt on Thursday for next Friday to have him checked out."

What?? "Acting really weird"? "Staring off into space"??
"Walks into a room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on"??
"The doc thinks it's mini seizures"?
Her son exhibits symptoms of this sort for 2 WEEKS, the dr. suspects "mini seizures" yet leaves him to walk to his class BY HIMSELF with "300 people" mingling around on a totally "chaotic" day where there was "no coordination"?
I think you get my point.

And your point seems to be stretching things to the point of incredulity.

Well, before he was walking to a classroom by himself, he was walking to the bus-stop,then riding the bus to school,then walking to his classroom and he was riding the bus back to the bus-stop, so what's your point?
My point would be that she didn't treat him any differently on that day, than she had on all previous days, except that she drove him to school on that day because of the science fair thing.
And how many parents of truly epileptic children who have gran mal seizures (which can be harmful -- even deadly) hold the hands of their children every minute of their lives? None. So he's having what appears to be a mild form of seizure on a periodic basis. He's in no danger to himself or others, so there's no reason to panic. There is reason to be concerned and call a doctor, which is what happened.

And then there's Kyron. If he wasn't feeling well, he would have told Terri, and she would have stayed with him, or took him home.

I believe I read Kyron was driven or walked to his bus stop in the mornings and picked up there in the afternoons.
As for your other points, I never said he needed anyone to hold his hand with every step he took. My POINT was, according to Terri, he had been "acting really weird" for just 2 weeks.
In her emails, she says the school that morning was "chaotic" with "no coordination" with "300 people running around" Then she contradicts herself "he was in safe hands I thought as I watched him walk down the hall." I'm sorry, but Kyron wasn't BORN with these "seizures". IF Kyron was acting the way Terri says, he's only had them for 2 weeks. They would have been NEW to him and new to her. She was a mom. She would have been worried, especially on THAT day under the conditions she described.

People need to open their eyes and THINK.

Armymom wrote: In order to believe that the things Desiree and Kaine have said against Terri in the press are NOT true, that LE KNOWS they're not true, you would have to believe this is a conspiracy against Terri of epic proportions.

No, not "epic proportions" just Kaine whipping Dizzyray into a frenzy to attack Terri except that now Dizzyray isn't friends with Kaine any more.


Yes epic proportions (i.e HUGE) Look at the amount of agencies and individuals involved. Each of these and every person connected would have to be involved in this "conspiracy".

Why do you refer to Desiree the way you do? What makes you so angry at the parents of a missing child? What makes YOU so certain Terri is innocent in this?? It's NOT just the idea of "innocent until proven guilty" that I'm seeing from you. You're angry. Why is that?
And where do you get the idea Desiree and Kaine are no longer friends? Yes, she's angry that he kept things from her, but that doesn't mean they are no longer friends.

Armymom wrote: You would have to believe without a doubt that PPS, Intel, MCSO, the District Attorney's office, the FBI, (along with all the other agencies involved in those early days) her cell phone company, friends who, in the beginning believed and supported her as well as the entire court system are all in on this conspiracy. That although NOTHING points to Terri being responsible, you would have to believe records have been changed, text messages and emails were forged, and LE is too incompetent to realize it.

Funny you should mention that.

the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.

Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.

In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman

In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.

I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.

That's a nice analysis from blinkoncrime.

I think the comments by the police regarding the investigation (saying what they have discovered is shocking) are quite appropriate.

Aren't you going to ask why the whole issue of "sexting" is now passé? You won't see Kaine beat that dead horse again.

So, you're thinking Kaine and MC worked together to set Terri up in a "sting operation"? I know next to nothing about cell phones and wouldn't know how to begin to send a text message.
But if someone sends a text, doesn't it show the number of the sender? If so, she would have KNOWN it Kaine's number, correct? I know some of the texts were sent BY Terri to MC. Did she not realize she was sending them to Kaine's phone?
And what if she was? Terri wasn't FORCED to say the things she said to MC. Terri wasn't FORCED to take nude photos of herself and send them to MC. Terri wasn't FORCED sneak out to meet MC. Terri wasn't FORCED to LIE to Dede and her attorney as to why she left and where she went. Again, Think people!

Armymom wrote:That LE is allowing Kaine and Kaine alone to direct and control the investigation.You would have to believe that all these agencies and the people connected to them are totally focused on seeing Terri destroyed in the minds of the public and convicted for a crime she did CLEARLY had nothing to do with.
Realistically, what would their motive be?? Who would benefit from this??

Terri would benefit.

Terri would benefit by being vilified? Are you serious? According to Terri's dad, If not convicted, Terri will NEVER be able to teach again. Terri will probably never be able to work anywhere ever again. Who would hire her? According to Dede, Terri was getting death threats. She had to go stay with her for this very reason.
Despite what you and the other Terri supporters may believe, LE is NOT in the business of purposely ruining another person because of lies. LE is NOT in the business of allowing an innocent person to be threatened and possibly harmed based on lies and rumors.

How do you know she isn't helping them now?

You do whatever you need to do. If you need to allow Kaine to "run" the investigation or at least let him believe he's running the investigation, then that's what you do, especially if you think Kaine will eventually forget what lies he's told and incriminate himself.

Wow.
Sorry, that's all I've got in response to that. Just...read my last comment above.

AJ said..

You never answered if you are satisfied to known that 2 LANDFILLS, BOTH within a 6 mile are where allegedly NEVER CHECKED??????

Armymom,

I haven't heard about the landfills until you mentioned them and honestly forgot to include my comment to my response. Sorry about that.
I did a check on landfills near the school.
‎
Metro Central Transfer Station‎
6161 Northwest 61st Avenue, Portland, OR‎ - (503) 234-3000‎ - 5.9 mi SE
Category: Landfill

Washington County Drop Box Services, Inc.
21435 Northwest Nicholas Court, Hillsboro, OR‎ - (503) 439-1303‎ - 5.5 mi S
Category: Services - Dumps & Landfills

Were they checked and if not why not? I honestly do not have an answer to this. I'm not aware of every place LE checked. Do you know for a FACT that these landfills weren't checked?

-------------------------------

AJ says..

Armymom, I rest my case........Not having heard of them, means you never asked that question, to yourself immediatley following his disappearance... you clearly entrusted a LE to do the right thing where appparently it has never been done.. You never looked at maps to see what was around the school.. hyou depended on the media to give you the meat and potatoes without searching for yourself.. Apparently, you put much faith in reporting.. I gave you several cases to sahow you that this exact thing that is going on in this case, happened in the ones i referred you too.. I truly hope you will read them and see where ypou may need to open your mind to the PRESUMPTION of INNOCENCE...I actually called the landfills early on to find out exactly how easy they were accessible and what exaclty were their security levels.. I found out that one in particular isnt even monitored very well... LE had not been at the landfilss annd this was at least a wek later and you can be guaranteded that if they did a search it wud have been media worthy... It was never done!

My entire point is that tunnel vision is TOO common in many investigations...

WE ALLOW IT.... by not speaking up and raising our voices... The same lack of effort was also in the Haleigh case although LE at least showed up at the Putnam dump a week later and only checked residential garbage that was collected ..not the landfill itself...

From day one of this investigation .. I wrote pretty much every day asking why LE arent checking the dumps... it never happened..

WHY?? becasue it was easier to cast doubt on Terri, and allow the jury of publoic opinion to start to crucify her where LE didnt really do anything, but put of pics of a white truck and cast more doubt..

I believe the jury of public opinion is far stronger than you give credit..

If the jury of public opinion told LE that they dont know who did it but they want an investigation ..... I believe the investigation wud be different... Theses are elected ppl, and stive to please their voters... If no one is demanding more, why shud they do more???

The landfills werent checked because apparenlty LE never thought anyone other than Terri committed this crime.. They put all theiir eggs in one basket and bet on Terri being the guilty party...checking a landfill wud be a place to start if there was any idea that monster pig may have taken him.. clearly LE never even considered this... Still No kyron.. God Bless Him.. !

How in GOD's name could LE justify not checking the landfills???? How can the ppl there be ok with this??

The ppl there have told LE its OK... they dont need too.. cuz no one demanded it..Have you even seen one reporter ask this question?? Have you seen one write about it??? NOPE...

Based on your writing, and how you admittedly trust the media in their accounts oof third hand news.. . I am truly sorry that you have sat on 2 jurys.....knowing how you have been sold on Terri's alleged guilt, for no good reason other than LE who are hellbent on convicting her..tells me that you have no ability to be impartial.. bad reporting has easily led you... so sad..

I hope your vote was innocent!

This is a list of boys missing from Oregon. Children just don't disappear. Something happens to them.

Brian Paige from Salem, Oregon 1/12/1975.
Edward Nye missing from Prospect, Oregon 6/22/1978.
William Gunn from Klamath Falls, Oregon 6/16/1984.
Jeremy Bright from Myrtle Point, Oregon 5/14/1986.
Walter Ackerson from Yachats, Oregon, 3/24/1990.
Thomas Dean Gibson, Glenddale, Oregon 3/18/1991.
Derrick Engelbretson from Bonanza, Oregon 12/5/1998
Samuel Savage Boehlke from Crater Lake National Park, Oregon, 10/14/2006
Jacob Thorpe from Salem, Oregon 4/10/2007

None of these boys should have been taken away from their parents and loved ones. That's 11 boys missing in the close proximity of Kyron Horman. Sexual predators would be the primary perpetrators in these disappearances with the slight chance one or two may be runaways.

I suspect that there are other children missing in the time gaps that aren't listed. They may have been found dead and it ruled accidental or suicide, or they may have disappeared from other areas, or states like California or Washington, but predators don't stop until they are caught or they die. If Kyron was taken by a sexual predator he want be the last child taken if this person is not stopped.

Did you see this. How many other times has this occurred. I know for a fact that there is at least one other time since Kyron disappeared and of one time before when a suspect was questioned and let go.

Tigard school warns of man near bus stop

by Teresa Blackman, kgw.com Staff
Posted on November 18, 2010 at 10:50 AM
Updated yesterday at 11:13 AM

TIGARD – A man in a minivan reportedly approached a middle school student Wednesday morning in Tigard and tried to get him into his vehicle.

The principal at Fowler Middle School sent out a letter with students later that afternoon, warning parents about the incident.

Principal Shelley Corry urged parents to caution their children against approaching strangers and remind them to get license plate information if they are threatened by anyone in a vehicle.

In Wednesday’s incident, the student said he was waiting for a bus at the intersection of Lizzie Court and Washington Drive before school when the driver crossed over a lane of traffic and ordered the boy to get in his car just before 9 a.m.

The student described the man as white, about 30-years old, with a goatee and a muscular build. He was wearing sunglasses and a lime green knit cap with strings hanging down. The student didn’t see the rest of the man’s clothing since he was sitting inside his van.

The student refused to get in the van and then ran home. His parent notified the school.

So far, a suspect has not been found and the police investigation continues.

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Tigard-school-warns-of-man-lurking-near-bus-stop-108992149.html

The GK is said to be a credible witness. He also seems to have been paying attention to what was going on around him - since he noticed the other kids that came out while he was mowing.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100663409.html

PORTLAND, Ore. - A groundskeeper, who was mowing the soccer field at Skyline School the morning Kyron Horman disappeared, clarified his timeline to investigators Friday morning and it differs slightly from what he told a KATU News reporter earlier in the week.

Portland Parks and Recreation turf technician, Dave Stensen, told a reporter he never saw the Hormans’ white Ford F-250 pickup truck in the two areas investigators asked about during a Wednesday news conference.

Those two places were on an access road to the soccer field and investigators say they want to talk to anyone who may have seen the Hormans’ truck on it between 8:15 a.m. and 8:45 a.m., Friday June 4.

Stensen told a reporter earlier in the week that he cut the grass on the soccer field between 7:45 a.m. and 8:30 a.m., and never saw the truck on the road.

He had to use the gravel access road to get to the soccer field, only he apparently used it before and after that half-hour window of time.

He met with two detectives and a deputy district attorney at Skyline School early Friday to go over his timeline in detail.

Stensen told investigators that he left Skyline School as late as 8:45 a.m. and 9:00 a.m., which means he could have missed seeing the Horman truck being in the two spots investigators are interested in, especially since he spent his time and attention at the school mowing the soccer field.

Investigators say that puts him on the gravel road outside of the critical half-hour window they want to know about since they have witnesses who saw someone in or around the Hormans’ truck during that time.

Still, authorities said it was helpful to have spoken to Stensen in depth.

Investigators say they are still hoping to speak with anyone who was at the school the morning of June 4 and saw the truck that Kyron’s stepmother, Terri Horman, was driving and anyone who was in it or around it.

Investigators are still trying to identify that person in the Hormans’ truck and say that could be key information into Kyron’s disappearance.

To read more about Dave Stenson, the groundskeeper, (7 pages)

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5763422/kyron_horman_who_is_the_groundskeeper_pg2.html?cat=34

GUNGA DAVE'S WEBSITE

http://www.gungadave.xbuild.com/#/on-the-farm/4514218372

Johnabelle,

Apparently, we think alike! at least in this case..

Sadly, we know that parents/step/guardians have killed their own offspring.. but for the most part, there is clear history and evidence supporting motive and oppurtunity and a very clear past of abuse ..and they usually fess up within the first few days if not immediatley... they are also knonw to leave hard evidence all over the place...

This is not the case, here.... How cud Teri have done such a great job in not leaving any evidence behind, or not being seen? How did she have time to be seen in 2 different grocery stores right after leaving?? Where was Kyron?? How cud Terri have acted so normal knowning that she either just committed a heinous crime, or was about too??

PPl really give her too much credit..

It shocks me to see how many ppl believe that an average joe, cud actually mastermind and plan a murder and leave no evidence... and act normal and go about your daily routine, after killing...

Too think that Terri wud have ever brought Kyron to school that day only to abduct him from there.. If she wwanted to get rid of him, there wud have been a safer way...

Too think she wud choose such a high rsik setting... and to have been successful. is just beyond..


I am shocked at how many ppl, do not know that high risk offenders are everywhere...

Kyrons disappearance is so consistent with that of a monster pig where there was ample, oppurtunity and motive ..

It shocks me that ppl werent screaming this from the roof tops.. and insisting on checking the local dumps like in little Sommer's case..

Instead LE cast doubt, then fail her on a poly, and find an alleged ILEGAL immigrant to accuse Terri of a murder for hire plot.. where this successfully turns the entire family agaisnt her.. it is so typical yet many ppl dont inject any logic to the story..

The schol was open to any random adult that day.. one who may have been a ped.. there are so many missing kids in that state.. i cant bleieve it was so easily dismissed..

To hear ppl like Armymom who have been sold by the media via LE is sad....

All it does is rob justice from Kyron and even the possibility that he is still alive being holed up by some monster pig... while they spend there time muddying Terris reputation so thhey can later get a conviction on he said she said.. what is american justice coming too?????

Stenson changed his story. Not only did he change the timeline, he also said in one story he was watching the children who had came outside, but he tells LE he didn't see anything because he was paying attention to cutting the grass. And soon after Kyron disappeared, Stensen went to Mexico.

Stensen told a reporter earlier in the week that he cut the grass on the soccer field between 7:45 a.m. and 8:30 a.m., and never saw the truck on the road.

He had to use the gravel access road to get to the soccer field, only he apparently used it before and after that half-hour window of time. (8:15 a.m. and 8:45 a.m.)

Stensen told investigators that he left Skyline School as late as 8:45 a.m. and 9:00 a.m., which means he could have missed seeing the Horman truck being in the two spots investigators are interested in, especially since he spent his time and attention at the school mowing the soccer field.

Investigators say that puts him on the gravel road outside of the critical half-hour window they want to know about . . . . .
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There are so many people who should be and are good suspects in this case and LE focused on Terri. Want to add that LE never named Terri as a suspect or even as a person of interest.

Sheriff's office warns of attempted child abductions

Tahoe Daily Tribune. November, 17 2010 10:49 am
Tahoe Daily Tribune

SOUTH LAKE TAHOE, Calif. — In the last two months, there have been several incidents of suspicious activity related to possible attempted abductions in Reno, Sparks, Carson City and South Lake Tahoe, according to the Douglas County Sheriff's Office.

The majority of incidents have occurred while the children or teens were walking to or from school. Suspects have engaged them in conversation and attempted to get them to leave with them on foot or in a vehicle. No children have gone with the subjects.

Suspect descriptions have ranged from young male Caucasians, to middle-aged Hispanic males, and in one incident, a middle aged Caucasian female.

Vehicle descriptions have included a large white van, a dark-colored SUV, a white Chevy pickup truck with black rims, and a Lexus car.

Reno Police have arrested three suspects and Sparks Police have arrested one suspect whom they believe responsible for some of the incidents. Their investigations are still ongoing.

There have been no related incidents reported Douglas County. However in an effort to educate parents and children on actions to increase personal safety, the Douglas County Sheriff's Office offers the following tips.
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Safety information for children/teens:
Always let parents know where you are going, who you will be with and what time you will arrive home.

Always get permission from a parent before leaving home, even if going to a nearby location.

Try to avoid walking alone - use the “buddy system.”

Never hitchhike.

Avoid short cuts through alleys, greenbelts, deserted parks or buildings. Never play in these isolated areas.

Always walk near lights and stay in public and open areas at night.

Always walk on the sidewalk or as far away from the roadway as possible. Walk facing toward traffic so you can see vehicles approaching.

If someone pulls up near you in a car, and asks you to come over so they can talk to you, do not approach the car. Tell them to go talk to an adult. Remember, adults should NEVER ask kids for help, they should always ask another adult.

Trust your instincts-- recognize and report suspicious behavior. Go somewhere safe if you feel fearful of someone.

If you see someone unusual hanging around a schoolyard, park, bus stop, or location where children or teens hang out, tell your parents.

Remember descriptions of suspicious vehicles or persons. If you can read the license plate, write it down. Write it in the dirt or snow if no pen or paper is available.
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Safety information for adults/parents:
Never leave children under 6 years old unattended.

Avoid clothing or toys with child's name on it (suspects can use this as an intro when approaching a child by calling him/her by their name).

Identify safe houses in your neighborhood that your child can go to if frightened or chased.

Never leave a child alone in a public place.

Always accompany your child into public restrooms.

Always go with your child to supervise door-to-door activities such as fundraising or Halloween

Make it a family rule that your child must let you know where they are at all times.

Make sure your children know their last name, phone number, and address.

Make sure your child knows how do dial 911.

Let your child know it is all right to say “no” to an adult if asked to do something they are not comfortable doing.

Teach children that adults should never need or ask for help from children for ANY reason (e.g. ask for directions, asking for help find an animal, etc).

Explain that if an adult or child ever asks them to “keep a secret” it is okay for them to discuss it with a parent/trusted adult.
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Actions if approached/abducted:
Parents should teach the following actions to their children in case they are approached or abducted by a stranger.

If a car pulls up beside a child, teach the child to move away from the car. Tell children to run in the opposite direction the car is facing.

If taken by a stranger, to yell specific phrases such as, “Help, I don't know this person!”, “I need your help”, or “I'm being kidnapped!.” They can also yell “fire” which usually gets everyone's attention quickly, and then follow up with one of the previous phrases.

If grabbed by a stranger, drop their weight by quickly squatting, twist their body, stretch out their body, kick/punch/scratch/bite at the abductor, and scream "Help! I need your help, I'm being kidnapped!"

If grabbed in a store, yell for a cashier or other adult, and to shatter merchandise and knock down displays. Tell child to try to grab onto the nearest person.

If forced into a car or building, scream and shatter objects and windows.

If abducted in a parking lot, pound on cars to set off car alarms, and go under a parked car if possible.

If abducted into a car, quickly jump into backseat and go out a back door.

If locked in a trunk, push out taillights and let wires dangle out.

If locked in an apartment or house, try all doors and windows for escape. Create an emergency situation (flood bathroom, break windows, set off alarms).

Never stop fighting back and always keep looking for an escape route.

http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/ARTICLE/20101117/NEWS/101119777/1056/RSS

Has anyone researched Masons? After reading recent posts about Kristian Korman's possible ties to Kyron's case, I decided to investigate what the Masons are all about. I had literally no clue. Just knew that Grandpa Horman (the alleged molester of Kristian and Kaine) was a ranking Mason and Kristian was a Junior Deacon. It is assumed that Kaine is also a member of the masonic order, but hard to verify because of the secret nature of the membership and obviously neither Kaine nor the Masons would want this to muddy the waters. I think the family's ties to the Masons could have some link to Kyron's disappearance - or maybe not. It's a secret society of almost 6 million and is exclusive to men. They say they are a "society with secrets", rather than a secret society... I felt so ignorant reading everything I could find on Masons today; a lot of politicians, judges, LE, and corporate leaders are confirmed Masons. I knew a little about the Yale Skull and Bones secret society, but nothing about the Free Masons.

One of their oaths is that secrets of the masonic lodges not be shared, by penalty of death. They don't really recognize sin; just missteps that can be corrected. A Mason must protect a fellow Mason and not incriminate him no matter what. These are actual requirements based on the least biased information sites I accessed. Members must believe in a higher being, but it can be from any religion because ultimately the Masonic principles supersede all else and godly things (no matter the religious origin) are carried out through the Masons themselves.

So, Kristian Horman outing Gramps (true or not) is a huge betrayal of Masonic principles. There was also information that cited Masons' worship of phallic symbols and open sexual relationships (bi-sexual or other) as long as it is not knowingly with a brother's wife. This information appeared on a couple of sites that were not as neutral and seem to be more conspiracy theory-oriented, so it's to be taken with a grain of salt.

I didn't post all of the links because you can just search "Masons" in Google and get a plethora of hits. I've just recapped some of the information that was consistent across the many sites I accessed.

I admit; I don't really understand the desire to be part of a secret fraternity type organization, but respect that others may feel empowered and connected by them. I am more of a soloist, so it's just my nature to question a group that requires initiation, sworn oaths with penalty of death or expulsion, and where secrecy is at the core of rising through the ranks of the organization. No offense to any Masons out there. The Masons may do some really great charitable works (they are said to work with shelters and children's organizations), but I hope LE has at least explored any possible connection between Kyron's disappearance and this Horman association with the Masons (just like they would any other of the family members' friends and associates, though the secrecy of the Masons might make these associates harder to ascertain). Kaine's friends and associates should be looked at as closely as Terri's, imo, if they feel some family member opened the door to whatever happened to Kyron. I keep thinking about the LE press conference where it was stated that LE knew things it wishes it didn't know and we would look back and be surprised. This connection may have absolutely nothing to do with Kyron, but if it does, it would be a big deal with far-reaching implications and would be shocking to me...

I'm sorry truthbtold, but I feel you are sadly misinformed about the history/beliefs of freemasons.

While masonry is an ancient tradition brought forward by centuries, freemasonry aims to teach men and women moral and social virtues. It does this by using symbolism of the ancient building trade. The idea of building a structure is used by the Masons as a symbol for building character and virtue in men/women. Freemasons must, by definition, practice mutual assistance, equality, brotherly love, secrecy, and trust between all members. Freemasons must believe in the existence of a Supreme Being, although the group is not religious. Masons may come from most religious backgrounds and may practice whatever religion they choose........

....... tales about Masons tend to lean towards werewolves, witchy powers, sexual deviancy and pacts with the devil.... but this is simply not true.

I respectfully disagree with your hypothesis.

kh

I am very aware of the Masons, and I know they will kick your booty to the curb if you are not living up to their virtues. You are still bound by the oath of silence, or whatever they call it, but you are no longer a part of the organization if you are not of high moral standards.

Some of the things they do are different and a little strange, but it is not much different than any organization that has its own rituals. Even the National Honor Society has rituals for the kids in their group. That doesn't make them evil, just goofy at times.

Thank you, Maat. My point eggzactly. kh

Thanks for sharing more information about the Masons. I really only know what I read today and based on your responses, I suspect most of what I found on-line was not written by those with first-hand knowledge. Thank you kh and Maat for not jumping down my throat; I really meant no harm and don't have a hypothesis. I just wondered if some of Kaine's desire to keep focus on Terri and be rather secretive and selective about his personal life might be connected to the Mason requirements (and if LE would have a harder time identifying Kaine's friends because of secrecy issues). I think LE should talk to everyone of the family members' close associates - anyone that might have some knowledge that could help in finding Kyron. I also hope they haven't yet discounted an abduction of opportunity. LE said earlier that it was an "isolated incident" and so far all focus made to the public has been family-related. But, they thought Amber DuBois's abduction was an isolated incident too (and they suspected the stepfather); we know now it was an abduction of opportunity by a repeat offender.

I still find the oaths and secrecy thing strange, but that's just me. I can see that there could be a lot of admirable qualities to the organization as well. I'd guess that Kristian (and maybe gramps) have probably had their booties kicked to the curb if the Masons don't put up with non-virtuous behavior...

Thanks again for sharing your insight...

Kristian, definitely since he got busted. Gramps may slip through the cracks since no arrest, or convictions, or anything to prove it. Lots of pervs slip through the cracks that way. The family kept it a secret forever, so nothing proves he did anything. Stinks. I wish people would realize that covering up for sickos perpetuates the crimes. That is why so many family members get abused by the same disgusting pig. Everyone covers it up like poop in a litter box. It's still there and it still stinks, but you just can't see it.

As for being secretive about friends, not so much. The Masons will gladly tell you who they are and who other Masons are. They wear watches, and rings, and all kinds of identifying things. Just like a fraternity that wears their symbols proudly. Just not about what they do in their meetings.

That is something that makes me wonder about his outside relationships. None of their friends are popping up. Not even their extended family. To me, that is strange.

truthbtold- not lookin to jump on anyone, I promise! And how ever different people feel about masons (true or not) does not change the fact that Gpa and that brother who is a convicted sex offender should be looked at closely. Very closely. kh

Thanks Maat. I agree that it's odd that Kaine's outside relationships haven't popped up at all. That's why I wondered if the secrecy part of the Mason organization could explain it. But actually, it may only seem to odd to us in THIS CASE because we know so much more than usual about Terri's associates: DeDe, landscaper Rudy, Michael Cook... We don't usually get that type of information in on-going investigations. Now that I think of it, the amount of public information about Terri's outside relationships is what's odd in this investigation. It makes it seems odd that we hear nothing of the same about Kaine or Desiree in comparison. Sure wish I knew if LE is really feeding all of this to Kaine, Desiree and thus the media, or if K & D are going against LE advice. I just don't understand why LE is divulging this information to them at all. It's so unusual.

One last question about the Masons that maybe you can answer. Everything I read indicates that a member's pledge of secrecy and protection suggests that one would be bound to lie or refuse to answer if questioned about possible incriminating behavior of another member. Their oath supersedes outside authority. Did I get that wrong? I'm not accusing anyone of anything in this regard, but trying to keep from getting tunnel visioned about anything. I think if most of Kaine's friends are fellow Masons, it could make it more difficult for police to vet all his associates and confidantes. Not necessarily because they know anything related to Kyron, but maybe just to avoid saying anything that could be interpreted as unflattering to Kaine (which would be a breach of their code of conduct in this case). Kaine did email all of his Intel colleagues asking them not to talk about his situation. So, it's possible LE is having a harder time investigating family connections outside of Terri's... I hope Kyron is found soon - he's been gone too long...

khintx wrote:truthbtold- not lookin to jump on anyone, I promise! And how ever different people feel about masons (true or not) does not change the fact that Gpa and that brother who is a convicted sex offender should be looked at closely. Very closely. kh

Thanks kh! I really appreciated your post. I respect that we're all just exploring avenues that could shed some light on what happened to Kyron. I agree that it's nonproductive to go off on weird cult-ish theories; they almost never ring true and I promise I wasn't suggesting anything like that about the Masons. But also don't want to ignore any possible valid connections outright. I just posed one last question to Maat about whether it would be a conflict for Kaine's Mason friends to answer questions about him to LE (and then moving away from the topic). Thanks again; always look forward to your posts...