Kyron Horman -- Missing 6/4/10 #3

That is a little out of my realm of knowledge, but from what I understand, they are not allowed to lie about another member, or to another member. No matter what. So, if they are telling the truth, it should be okay. I don't know exactly the wording, though.

I know that a police officer who is a Mason will have no problem arresting a Mason who commits a serious crime. If they can arrest them for the crime, I see no reason why they wouldn't talk about it.

I don't really know much about the Masons but I know people who are Masons. I would think that they, like all organizations have their good and bad members and possibly even members who hide behind the title as far as others may know, but what goes on behind closed doors in another story. Its even like that with some members of churches and those who work in charity. People are people and there are good and bad in all walks of life.

Thanks Maat. I actually found two separate copies of the oath. It states that a fellowcrafter must not ever reveal any secrets of another under any circumstances, with the exceptions of murder and treason. I interpret that to mean if Kaine confided in a Mason friend anything about his home life or anything about Kyron (short of murder) that his confidante(s) would be bound to keep it secret. Interesting stuff, but may not have any bearing on the interviewing of Kaine's friends/associates as we don't know for sure if Kaine is even a member of a masonic lodge.

Maybe tomorrow will bring some answers into Kyron's disappearance...

Peace to Kyron and all who love him...

khintx wrote:truthbtold- not lookin to jump on anyone, I promise! And how ever different people feel about masons (true or not) does not change the fact that Gpa and that brother who is a convicted sex offender should be looked at closely. Very closely. kh

Those are dead ends. The uncle was convicted for groping a teenage girl who I believe was the daughter of his girlfriend and who got into his bed with him, but it's off the deep-end to classify him as a "sex offender."

True pedophiles stay within their sex and age group, whatever that might. If they do 2-4 year old boys, they do not touch girls. If they do 9-12 year old girls, they do not touch boys. I think that says something about how they are wired, but regardless, that's the way they are wired and there's no changing it, which is why in the history of Earth there isn't once single case of a true sex offender being rehabilitated.

Also Kristian's story is crap. I seriously doubt that he was molested, and instead was making excuses to draw the sympathy card.

Contrary to what you claim it wasn't grandpa, it was great-grandpa, because Kristian claimed it was his grandfather, who of course is dead and can't defend himself, which shows you what a low life Kristian really is (and so is Kaine).

So you can stare at Kyron's great-grandfather all you want, but he won't stir from the grave.

Mircea: if Kristian's grandfather is dead, point taken that he's obviously not someone to pursue. Thanks for clarifying. Still, I agree with kh that the fact that there is a known sex offender in the family (and claims of a history of molestation in the family) should be closely looked into. In fact, LE confirmed that they were looking into it as part of the Kyron investigation. This was back in June and they were likely looking into anything suspicious from any family members and associates. They'd not only want to look at Kristian and rule him in or out, but also any of his associates that might share his interest in children and whether or not they were ever around Kyron. It would be negligent for LE not to do so, imo. I'd guess there was no direct connection. But we don't really know what LE has discovered and how it all relates.

I think it's perfectly appropriate to call someone who confessed and was convicted of third degree child molestation a "sex offender". The 15 year old daughter of his ex was in bed with a smaller child (at the home he shared with his new girlfriend, her mother and a 1 year old) when he started rubbing her crotch. The other adults were out of the house so she jumped up and called her mom. He will have to register as a sex offender when released. I don't see how it's going off the deep end to label him a sex offender. While you are right that most types of pedophiles don't typically deviate from their preferred age/gender, it is very typical for pedophiles to prey on children that they know and use their trust to seduce them (and convince themselves and the child that the child wanted it). He's a confessed and convicted sex offender, straight up.

All of this is just making me sad, and I agree with you that it probably doesn't lead LE any closer to finding Kyron, but a possible connection has/had to be ruled out.

Kristian & Kaine's grandfather is not dead. His name is Melvin & he is 80...well that's one of their grandfathers, it's Neil, their dad's dad.

awaiting justice wrote:

so sad... and really no investigation at all..
just propaganda against Terri... and no real searching to speak of (including no landfill checks...)

So Right!

This case was bungled from the start. LE needs to fire themselves.

While it could very well have been a stranger abduction, I can't stop thinking about what Dez said that makes no sense at ALL!

She said She would have come to the Science Fair but she had to work.

I feel like that statement was her way of preemptively denying being there that morning or denying knowing who was there that morning to take Kyron. Why?

Because whether or not she had to work is irrelevant since she lives so far away she'd have had to get up about 3AM just to make it there by 8, 4AM to be there before 9AM (I've included time to do her makeup and hair) and I don't see that happening, so why even say she would have come? I dare say she wouldn't have anyhow....for the Science Fair and then be stuck there all day waiting to take Kyron to her place for the weeken....but to whisk Kyron away and blame it on Terri?...that might be worth getting up at the wee hours for.

I'm not saying I think Dez did this, but I'm not ruling her or Tony out because in my mind Tony had motive....Tony had experience with investigations enough to know how to foil one...Tony had his blue-buddies trusting him enough to probably share information AND trusting Tony enough to take his suggestions. Tony has a white truck! I saw it in a picture once but it's not a Ford. So...just sayin'....

LottieM wrote:She said She would have come to the Science Fair but she had to work.

I feel like that statement was her way of preemptively denying being there that morning or denying knowing who was there that morning to take Kyron. Why?

That is a bizarre statement.

That would be like me asking, "Were you at Skyline Elementary on the morning of June 4?" and your response is, "I had to work that day."

I didn't ask you if you had to work, rather I asked you where you were. In this instance you failed to answer the question, which is quite suspicious.

LottieM wrote:Tony has a white truck! I saw it in a picture once but it's not a Ford. So...just sayin'....

The truck is a non-issue and would never come up in court, unless it happened to contain blood, hair, fibers or other evidence directly related to the case.

In reading the witness' statement to the police, I would have an idea of how long (in seconds) the witness viewed the truck, and then ask the witness in court how long they were able to view the truck. Then I would have the witness step down and recall the witness later after my audio-visual people had put together a series of short video clips of the duration of time the witness specified they were able to see a white pick up truck.

I would call the witness back to the stand and play the video, having the witness identify the make of each truck in the 24 video clips.

My guess is the average person would fail to correctly identify the make of the truck 66% to 75% of the time, which destroys the credibility of the witness and is sufficient to create "reasonable doubt." It would be even worse if the witness identified the white truck as a Ford once or twice and then as a Chevrolet, GMC or Dodge truck later.

I don't doubt a white truck may have been present in the area, especially since white pick-up trucks are quite common, but the witnesses probably did not know the make of the vehicle and it was only after the police mentioned "Ford" (and the media also) that the witnesses came to believe it was a "Ford."

Witnesses are often unreliable. They "see" things that weren't actually there at the time of the crime. There's volumes of research on the unreliability of witnesses. I've had witnesses misidentify weapons. The truth was they saw the subject had an object, but couldn't clearly identify it, then someone in the crowd said it was a gun so the witnesses came to believe it was a gun, when in fact it was a knife (the victim was stabbed, not shot).

Previously I theorized that Dizzyray might have been there, but I don't think so. However I think she has direct or indirect knowledge. She either knew before hand, in which case it could have been Tony like you said, or she knew after the fact, or she suspects what happened. Still, I don't get the impression she's protecting Tony, but she is protecting Kaine somehow and I think the police are trying to drive a wedge between her and Kaine to isolate Kaine and get her to maybe reveal some of what she might know, even if it's just her suspicions.

I think the police are in the position right now where they either need the body to get forensic evidence and construct some time-line (based on the location of the body) or they need a confession in order to solve this case.

I joined RC just a few days ago after reading just 2 pages in the Ky forums, it seems as though this is the only forum that allows and encourages open debate and critical thinking. All the others are so anti-Terri that if you even mention anything remotely negative about Kaine or Dezy you are admonished, well I have felt since day one Kaine is withholding something, just a gut instinct I felt right away, now he has contradicted himself so many time it's stunning, either he lied then or now about Terri, he can't have it both ways and I don't for a minute believe he would have been clueless after watching her "pass out on the couch several nights a week, slur her word and stumble around, leave Kitty up while she was drunk on the couch blah blah blah"....if so he's d@mn negligent IMO and shouldn't have custody of Kitty. She needs a GAL like months ago. The email he sent to his coworkers at INTC made me spit my drink out, WTF?? Who cares about legal crap when there child is missing, I'd not give a rat's ass to be honest, so there is something so wrong and I am shocked so few see it. I do know on SM many do, they are afraid to post it, I did state how I felt and rec'd numerous PM's and FB messages thanking me, and saying they felt the same way but were too afraid to post. Not so much from the admin or moderators but the sanctimonious posters that would attack them. I also wonder if he let LE have his work computer right away or if that had to go thru legal also. I can see him changing drastically and NOT in a good way, it's as though something is eating him alive from the inside. Desiree doesn't look this way nor does Terri, only Kaine.

That brings me to the GLP post jonabelle (sorry if I botched your name) posted about Kyron humping Kitty.....I also vomited when I read that because I know that it is a learned behavoir. My son was molested by his dad who was a controlling sociopath at 3 yrs old, I had filed for divorce and kicked him out since I knew he was a sociopath adn was self medicating with strong RX and didn't want him around our son. He was never alone with him once I noticed and that was almost a yr before I filed for divorce, he was never allowed to drive with him and I decided to not return to work so I could be with my son 24/7, it was too big a risk accident wise and I didn't care if I lost every dime I had, it was my instinct as a parent to protect him and I did the best I could. Once he was granted visitation before the divorce was final I made sure my step kids who I raised for yrs leading up to the divorce were always in the apt so their dad was never alone in the apt with him, but that didn't mean they followed him when he bathed my son, well he molested him, sorry POS that I could run over with my car 1000 times a feel no guilt whatsoever. Anyway, I knew my son was acting odd, he was waking up in the middle of the night worried about me, he wanted a bottle again and had to go back to wearing pull ups at night, one day when his dad along with my stepkids came to pick him up he started crying, I asked what was wrong and he told me "I'm afraid of daddy", I wasn't sure what to think but I refused to let him take him for visitation and assured my POS hub that our son had a psychologist appt on Monday (this was Friday) and I'd ask the psychologist about it, he was furious and told me I couldn't without a court order. I told him BS, and get out of my yard you are not taking him with you period. Anyway, that evening I asked my son why he was afraid to go to daddie's place assuming something not so big a deal, well I was so wrong-he told me daddy touches my privates.....I thought it could be that he did since he was still so young that we bathed him all over, but wrote it down anyway for the appt. The next day I was watching him play with the rocking horse and he came up behind it and started humping it, I threw up at that moment and was pysically sick, now I knew why he was afraid to go to daddie's place. We kept tha appt that Monday and I asked the Dr is there anyway he could have made this up?? (I know it sounds insane, but as a parent you are looking for any reason to explain away something as innocent rather than know your child has been assaulted and lost their innocence and trust from those that were supposed to protect him). So, when I read that about Ky, and Dezy's story about Ky not wanting to go back it clicked, there are many signs that show a child may have been molested and one of the top 5 is fear of a specific place or person, so now I really wonder about that appt. Also, my son told the Dr on August 2nd, 2003 and that set a chain of events in motion with DCF that were hell on earth, but they didn't make him have a rape exam until September so I can see how that or the mini-seizures appt could have been weeks away. Also, I can see how Kaine nor Dezy noticed since it seems they really knew very little about anything that happend in the house, I am assuming as long as the house was clean, dinner cooked, yardwork was done, kids homework was done, and the kids were chauferred around to anything and everything from Dr's appts to games, practices, and even to the half way point that all was perfect. I think the both were too busy and selfish in their own little life that they were perfectly fine with Terri having to do everything including paying 1000 a month even though her name wasn't on the deed, I'd have told him to go screw himself and try hiring a babysitter, cook, chauffer, gardener, prostitute (so he could have his needs met) , etc and see what happened.

This entire case has been such a bad case of tunnel vision Stevie Wonder could see it. Granted, I do not know she is innocent but LE said she had cooperated up until Kaine filed for divorce IIRC, and I don't see any hard evidence she did it, if I was on a jury I couldn't convict her, (although I would love to ask wth she saw in that Fugly control freak with negative personality and buck teeth). I can see how a PIG/SO could get him as they love to find jobs that allow them to be near kids, or a random crime of opportunity.

I also detest the non-stop bashing from Kaine and Dezy of Terri, if they do believe she is as guilty as they state they need to shut their pie hole, and let LE do it's work, all they are doing is backfiring IMO after reading the comments on OL. Also, if she was as bad as they state they should be charged with child endangerment or neglect for letting her raise the kids and drive them around, even the extremely long drive TERRI (not Kaine) drove so Dezy could see Kyron.......frankly, they make me sick and I call on the majority of everything they ram down the media's throat

Sorry for the long, rambling post I just had to get that off my chest after reading all the threads and especially the one about Ky humping and frankly so thanks for giving me a place to rant

IslandGirl-first of all, thank you for being your child's parent!

I knew from the near begining of this case that Kaine was hiding something because of his attack on Terri. It was like a pre-emptive strike, imo. What is it that he doesn't want the public to know that he has to make sure the attention is on Terri as the perp?

I don't know if Terri is guilty or not but Kaine's behavior has been suspicious in my estimation-just too odd at a time his own child is missing.

Have a lovely night!

Sherry wrote:IslandGirl-first of all, thank you for being your child's parent!

I knew from the near begining of this case that Kaine was hiding something because of his attack on Terri. It was like a pre-emptive strike, imo. What is it that he doesn't want the public to know that he has to make sure the attention is on Terri as the perp?

I don't know if Terri is guilty or not but Kaine's behavior has been suspicious in my estimation-just too odd at a time his own child is missing.

Have a lovely night!

Thanks Sherry, I do my best to make sure they are my first priority ......of course there are times I fail when work is so demanding that I am unable to do as much at the school as most parents, and in his school being a single parent is an anomoly, I know of 2 single parents LOL, but he understands I am the one armed paper hanger responsible for everything.

Great point about preemptive strike, I do wonder WTH everyone is so quiet about his past and although I know Terri's weight and every nasty little thing they could say about her from PMS to alleged alcoholism but we don't even know really how they met as he deems it irrelevant. I don't know either if she is guilty or not, but if I were on a jury and this was tried based on what we know, there is no way I could convict her. Kaine has always been an odd bird and raised my hinky meter and I know others also feel this way, they are just too afraid to say it.

Ditto.............

Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton confident Kyron Horman investigation won't end up in the cold case files

Maxine Bernstein
The Oregonian
Updated: Saturday, December 04, 2010, 11:34 AM



Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton almost despaired of solving the Kyron Horman case in September, fearing the biggest criminal investigation in the county's history was destined for the cold case files.

He was anguished at losing those vital six hours between the time the 7-year-old boy disappeared from Skyline School on June 4 and when he was reported missing, and worried the investigation was bogged down in a flood of information that wasn't shaping into a solution.

But at the sixth-month anniversary of Kyron's disappearance, Staton says he's confident there will be a resolution. In an interview with The Oregonian last week, Staton updated the progress of the investigation and provided a glimpse inside the "War Room" at Multnomah County Sheriff's headquarters where the Kyron Horman Task Force meets twice a week.

Room 200A is a barebones second-floor conference room at the sheriff's office in Northeast Portland. An enlarged photo of a smiling, bespectacled Kyron, standing before his school science fair project, sits prominently against a whiteboard. Metal shelving holds 63, 4-inch thick white binders filled with thousands of pages of police reports. Two laptops on a conference table contain the FBI software that sorts the 4,257 tips received. Stacks of maps in a room down the hall plot the 155 square miles that have been searched.

Investigators suspect more than one person was involved in Kyron's disappearance, and more than one crime occurred: an alleged murder-for-hire scheme by the boy's stepmother against her husband before the boy went missing, Kyron's kidnapping, and who knows what else. They're still unsure what happened to the child, and have had to consider all options, from the child being abducted to becoming a victim of human trafficking to being killed.

While the sheriff and his investigators won't comment on any suspects, it's clear from court documents and testimony in the couple's pending divorce case that Terri Horman remains at the center of their inquiry, as well as a handful of associates and friends of the stepmother, including DeDe Spicher.

Read more: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/12/multnomah_county_sheriff_dan_s_2.html

Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton confident Kyron Horman investigation won't end up in the cold case files

Maxine Bernstein
The Oregonian
Updated: Saturday, December 04, 2010, 11:34 AM

Investigators suspect...

There's some obvious discontinuity there. Note that we move from the very specific, namely Sheriff Dan Staton, to the very general and incredibly ambiguous and vague "Investigators."

... more than one person was involved in Kyron's disappearance, and more than one crime occurred: an alleged murder-for-hire scheme by the boy's stepmother against her husband before the boy went missing, Kyron's kidnapping, and who knows what else. They're still unsure what happened to the child, and have had to consider all options, from the child being abducted to becoming a victim of human trafficking to being killed.

Yeah, I'm sure Terri sold Kyron to the Albanian Mafia to finance her liposuction surgery.

While the sheriff and his investigators won't comment on any suspects, it's clear from court documents and testimony in the couple's pending divorce case that Terri Horman remains at the center of their inquiry, as well as a handful of associates and friends of the stepmother, including DeDe Spicher.

That's incredibly bad journalism and reflects back on the previous paragraph. I guess they need sales.

Mircea wrote:

Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton confident Kyron Horman investigation won't end up in the cold case files

Maxine Bernstein
The Oregonian
Updated: Saturday, December 04, 2010, 11:34 AM

Investigators suspect...

There's some obvious discontinuity there. Note that we move from the very specific, namely Sheriff Dan Staton, to the very general and incredibly ambiguous and vague "Investigators."

... more than one person was involved in Kyron's disappearance, and more than one crime occurred: an alleged murder-for-hire scheme by the boy's stepmother against her husband before the boy went missing, Kyron's kidnapping, and who knows what else. They're still unsure what happened to the child, and have had to consider all options, from the child being abducted to becoming a victim of human trafficking to being killed.

Yeah, I'm sure Terri sold Kyron to the Albanian Mafia to finance her liposuction surgery.

While the sheriff and his investigators won't comment on any suspects, it's clear from court documents and testimony in the couple's pending divorce case that Terri Horman remains at the center of their inquiry, as well as a handful of associates and friends of the stepmother, including DeDe Spicher.

That's incredibly bad journalism and reflects back on the previous paragraph. I guess they need sales.

I agree about the bad journalism. I hardly think divorce papers filed by Kaine accurately
reflect the status of the missing Kyron case.

There was one interesting tid bit that was printed in the Oregonian and not on OregonLive, and that was there is only one FBI agent assigned to this case. I really wish there was more involvement from the Feds.

Mult Cty sheriff's: 1 sergeant, 3 detectives
Washington Cty sheriff's: 1 detective
Clackamas Cty Sheriff's: 1 detective
Oregon State Police: 1 detective
FBI: 1 agent
Mult Cty District Attn. Office: 2 chief Deputy DA, 1 deputy DA and 2 investigators

I agree with Mircea and Elphie. The last paragraph about Terri being an obvious suspect due to court documents and divorce testimony struck me as very questionable journalism. If LE has evidence of Terri's involvement, let them name her a suspect. The divorce BS is just that, divorce BS that should be taken with a grain of salt as it is not formally related to criminal activity and the source is a very biased soon-to-be ex spouse. Terri may be guilty, but the fact that that she allegedly drank at night and was strict does not make her a suspect in the kidnapping. The MFH, is still "alleged". If they had been able to prove it, there would be charges. Why is this still being thrown around by the Sheriff when it has not been proven, despite an early sting attempt? Egg on face, perhaps.

I support LE and understand that this is a difficult case. I'm sure all of the investigators are frustrated. However, they seem to be letting the media, KH and DY leak info and make a case against Terri in the court of public opinion. LE is either intentionally letting it happen, or they are ineffective in controlling the release of information. Neither scenario gives me confidence that they are on the right track and just taking time to build a strong case for conviction(s). Plus, if they have no evidence that Kyron is deceased, why no sense of urgency? If they had any idea who took him and for what purpose, they'd be all over it. Maybe they have every reason to believe he's deceased, but just no evidence without a body or any physical evidence at the school, the home, or any vehicles.

Ughh, the Oregonian article made me less confident that LE has any clear idea of the chain of events and parties involved. I hope I'm wrong and Straton is purposely concealing the important and relevant discovery for some strategic purpose... Prayers to Kyron and all who love him...

truthbtold wrote:Ughh, the Oregonian article made me less confident that LE has any clear idea of the chain of events and parties involved. I hope I'm wrong and Straton is purposely concealing the important and relevant discovery for some strategic purpose...

Law enforcement is not the media. Law enforcement has no obligation to reveal anything at any time. Even if they have a suspect, and it appears they do, they don't have to reveal that.

If you read between the lines and look at the actions of the police, it appears they've shifted their focus to Kaine. Look at the release of the e-mails. How does that harm Terri? It didn't. What it did do is drive a wedge between Dizzyray and Kaine. If Terri is a suspect, how does having Kaine and Dizzyray independently attacking Terri help law enforcement? It doesn't. But having Dizzyray split up the team serves to isolate Kaine.

Then shortly after there were reports of conducting a search around Sauvie Island. That may have been to test Kaine's reaction.

By the way, when was Kaine's last news conference? After the e-mails were released to Dizzyray. Why didn't he do a news conference after the search? Or did he? I don't know, I don't have a TV and don't really pay attention to the local news web-sites in Oregon.

But it is interesting. The man who loves press conferences has nothing to say while during or after the search. Was there a press conference or a statement released over the Thanksgiving family holiday? I don't think so. It'll be interesting to see what Kaine says over the Christmas and New Year holidays.

Mircea wrote:
Law enforcement is not the media. Law enforcement has no obligation to reveal anything at any time. Even if they have a suspect, and it appears they do, they don't have to reveal that.

If you read between the lines and look at the actions of the police, it appears they've shifted their focus to Kaine.

I agree that LE can and should hold back information that may compromise the investigation. In this case, it's not a problem of too little critical information being released, it's too much irrelevant info being released (all the personal stuff about Terri), imo. What I can't ascertain is whether LE has encouraged/allowed the release of personal information for some strategic purpose, or if they really do wish Kaine and DY would put a lid on it.

I did not get the same impression reading between the lines. Nothing in the article lead me to believe that LE has switched focus from Terri to Kaine. I got the sense that they still suspect all of the weird stuff in the Horman household (to date, all attributed to Terri) contributed to Kyron's disappearance, but they don't know exactly who, what, how. Perhaps LE does have answers to some of these questions, but they just can't/won't say until it's drawn together tight enough to name someone(s) a suspect and feel they have a prosecutable case.

I just can't tell if LE has backed off of the "Terri did it" theory because they haven't been able to substantiate anything to support it, or if they are still on the Terri track and just ruling out any other possibilities in order to strengthen an eventual case against her (which may well be circumstantial only).


P.s. Kaine was on Jane-Velez Mitchell last week and I believe "Good Morning America" just before that (both proceeding the last search and DY's leak about the hateful alleged emails).

Mircea and TruthB~ Interesting. What is odd to me, and we discussed this at great length at the beginning of this case, is that it wasn't really LE at all that was briefing the public anyway. It was Kaine, Dez and Tony. It was very controlled and it seemed apparent to me anyway that they were working on their own public images just a little too much, a little bit too hard. And doing everything possible to accuse Terri and make her look bad.

Now, I don't know what has happened to Kyron. Maybe it was Terri. I just don't know. But there were months of trash being put out there about her by the family which was not LE-approved or supported (I think).

I hope they find the little guy soon. I don't expect a happy ending though.

kh

A very interesting blog concerning the search for Kyron

http://victoriataftkpam.blogspot.com/2010/12/mccain-kyron-kops-confident-yet.html

Thanks Elphie for an interesting read.

Great comment kh and I agree. If Kaine and Dez suspected Terri of playing a role in Kyron's disappearance, I believe they did the wrong thing by alienating Terri the way that they have. What's that saying - keep your friends close and your enemies closer? Of course, who is to say what I, myself, would have done if that had been my child the stepmother was texting friends that she resented and blamed for her marriage going down the pipes. It may be years before we know what happened to Kyron, if then...

Gracie wrote:Thanks Elphie for an interesting read.

Great comment kh and I agree. If Kaine and Dez suspected Terri of playing a role in Kyron's disappearance, I believe they did the wrong thing by alienating Terri the way that they have. What's that saying - keep your friends close and your enemies closer? Of course, who is to say what I, myself, would have done if that had been my child the stepmother was texting friends that she resented and blamed for her marriage going down the pipes. It may be years before we know what happened to Kyron, if then...

I agree that alienating Terri was a stupid thing to do IF they truly thought she knew where Kyron was. I see the alienation as Kaine and company wanting Terri out of THEIR conversations because surely they didn't really want to be out of her conversations IF they really thought she knew where Kyron was.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/

12/06

"..............Sheriff Staton also made some statements that show that Desiree and Kaine, whose desperation to have their son located and back to them, may have disclosed more information than MCSO wanted released Most likely the comment made by Sheriff Staton was in reference to separate interviews given by Desiree and Kaine after they were presented with emails written by Terri Horman that reportedly voiced her disdain for Kyron. Sheriff Staton shared with The Oregonian that he took Desiree and Kaine to lunch last month and shared that while the MCSO wants to keep them apprised of the progress of the investigation, they need Kyron’s parents to coordinate with them before making statements based on evidence shared with them.........

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Interesting. kh

AJ~ I think he was trying to do image repair work a well. kh

I thought Staton's press conference was ridiculous. They don't have anything. Maybe Terri did it, maybe she didn't, but LE doesn't have the evidence.

People just hear what they want to hear, too. Some observers really believe there's going to be an arrest by February 1. "Hoping something shakes out" by February 1 is not the same as arresting someone on February 1. If they had the evidence, they'd arrest her today, or would have last month, or the month before, etc.

This is a very frustrating case. And, you know, I really feel sorry for DeDe Spicher. I think she's just an innocent pawn in all this. When Terri Horman's alibi tightened up, with her receipts from FMs and all, the theory turned into, "She must have had help," and DeDe was the person everyone pointed to.

LC

awaiting justice wrote:Mircea said..

"Law enforcement is not the media. Law enforcement has no obligation to reveal anything at any time. Even if they have a suspect, and it appears they do, they don't have to reveal that.
If you read between the lines and look at the actions of the police, it appears they've shifted their focus to Kaine. Look at the release of the e-mails. How does that harm Terri? It didn't. What it did do is drive a wedge between Dizzyray and Kaine. If Terri is a suspect, how does having Kaine and Dizzyray independently attacking Terri help law enforcement? It doesn't. But having Dizzyray split up the team serves to isolate Kaine. "

------------------------------------

I just want to add that LE appeared to focus on Terri immediatley, and shud have ruled her out ...instead they kept the witchunt after her, and soon got K and D on board who apparently have acted as pons (via the media) for LE....

It wasnt long before LE told D and K about a failed poly and the allegeed hit on his life.. Amber Dubois' mom had the exact same thing happen to her where LE were concerned and she bought it tooo.. even lleft him.. only to find out the accused step father was innocent.. LE easily use ppl as it covers their ass and still gets the info oout there to taint the jury of ppublic opinion agaisnt the person..

It didnt take long for LE to turn them against their poi, and the sole purpose is for " permission from the public"...

LE relies on the public support (for votes) and basically the direction they will take..

As long as no one is screaming at LE and asking them hard questions (for example.. why did they never check the landfills and transfer stations that were both within 6 miles from the school) ... they sit back and watch the jury of public opinion crucify Terri while they wait for more circumstantail evidence and basically do nothing else but dig and create....

This seesm like a " common style" of investigations these days and we as the public are the only ones who can change it..

We neeed to get smarter and stop taking their lead.. especially in a case like this where it shud be clear that if Terri had anything to do with it, there wud have been hard evidence at the very start and likley she wud have never " lost him " or used the school as to facilitate the crime/alibi...

This is a case like many where the obvius person turned out to be apparenltly uninvolved, but bcause LE let the investigation go, and get cold without doing any major searching and investigation on every potential suspect.. now it will become " being right" .. and robbing Kyron the right to justice as terri will likley be arrested anytime as soon as LE get enough kooks to come forward and lie about things (like hiring a hitman by an alleged illegal immigrant) and so on...

Still no reporters have asked aany hard questions to LE like why didnt they check the dumps and what about RSO in the area????? It seems to me that in cases where it doesnt turn out to be the likley person (spouse/boyfrined/parent) ..LE seemt ohave an easy time making it become one of the likely ppl only becasue they have no one else to hold responsible.. I used to think the jury system wud not allow for these type of wrongful accusations to bring convictions, but seems to happpen more and more every day only we can stop it..

Where is Kyron? God Bless him!

ITA with all of this, also I will NEVER understand why they assumed he had just wandered off, IMO when it's a 7 yr old child you act as if it's an abduction in no matter what, if he wandered off then no harm no foul...but, to wait two days to interview the students, parents and teachers because of an assumption is an absurdly stoopid way to start an investigation, especially considering how crucial those first few days are. I think MCSO is in way over their head, and targeted her from the get go, then considering the liability of a school losing a child and how that would affect not only the economic situation of the county, but also the public outrage the pressure to make their theory work is escalated. Wouldn't be the first time and sadly won't be the last. Now I am no way saying she had nothing to do with it, I don't know and there are enough alternate theories for me to consider this a crime of opportunity, a sexual predator who are known to place themselves in vocations that allow them to be closer to kids or to volunteer for positions that do the same, I can see the flip side also. Then toss in K & D and their airing of every bit of dirty laundry about Terri, but God forbid any come out about them, and you have a toxic mix. I do think from reading OL, ppl are starting to view it the same way. I also think if Terri wanted to harm him, there would have been easier ways than a busy school filled with not only students and their parents but also the public. Extremely frustrating to see these cases being handled this way when objective observers can plainly see what LE is trying to spin, and most aren't buying

Tuesday, December 07, 2010
McCain: Kyron Kops: Confident Yet Clueless (and Raking in the OT)

It has now been six months since Kyron Horman was last seen alive on June 4, 2010. To mark this unfortunate anniversary, Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton finally broke his silence to speak with media over this weekend. Sunday’s Oregonian carried a large front-page “exclusive” interview that told us nothing new, while confirming what many have believed all along.

While Staton expressed his confidence that something will break in this case by his arbitrarily set February 1 deadline, he and his detectives acknowledge they have no idea what happened to Kyron, where Kyron is today or whether the boy is alive or dead.

There is no discernable crime scene, though Skyline School has been dubbed “Ground Zero” for the investigation. Investigators admit there is no physical evidence relating to Kyron or linking anyone – including Terri Horman – to Kyron’s disappearance. No broken eyeglasses. No torn CSI shirt. No bloody handprint. To say MCSO detectives are clueless is not an insult; it’s their own description of the case. Yet some of these investigators have been well-compensated for their time so far.

Public payroll records show several MCSO employees working on the Kyron Horman case earned five-figures in overtime in the month of June alone, on top of six-figure compensation packages. The following is a list of employee overtime costs, which includes earnings, salary-related fringe and insurance, for June 4 through June 30, 2010

Sgt. Diana Olsen - $17, 390.00

Deputy Lee Gosson - $16,966.00

Deputy Kevin Jones - $15,784.50

Deputy Joshua Zwick - $14,949.50

Deputy Bobby O’Donnell - $14,035.00

Deputy Jonathan Zwick - $13,144.50

Deputy Sean Mallory - $11,263.00

Deputy Daniel Rendon - $10,930.00

Deputy Lars Snitker - $10, 190.00

Deputy Matthew Ferguson - $10,155.50

Deputy Timothy Wonacott - $10,013.00

But the grand prize for overtime in June 2010 goes to Sgt. Jan Kubic, who was paid $18,164.50 in total overtime compensation for the month, on top of a total annual compensation package of $146,842. These staggering numbers for June alone only list those earning more than $10,000 in overtime for the month of June 2010. The total Kyron Horman overtime costs to taxpayers for June alone was $335,908.98. And these figures are only for the Sheriff’s Office – they do not include the district attorney or other federal, state and local agencies who contributed resources to the search for Kyron.

On Friday June 11, one week after Kyron disappeared, the pubic got it first glimpse of the four adults involved in Kyron’s strange family dynamic. Donning white tee shirts depicting Kyron, the media and public saw Kaine Horman and his current wife Terri Horman, Desiree Young and her current husband Tony Young standing in the background as stage props as MCSO spokespersons delivered the first in a series of press conferences many in the media felt were defensive and confrontational. That same day, Deputy Eric Gustafson was paid for 20 hours of overtime for June 11 at a total cost to taxpayers of $1,600.00. Gustafson followed his 20-hour OT days with a 16 hour overtime day on Saturday, June 12 to the tune of $1,280.00. Gustafson’s 36-hour OT binge on consecutive days came a full week after Kyron had disappeared, but was typical of how the Sheriff’s Office approached this case from the beginning.

Sheriff Staton has repeatedly expressed his regret that investigators lost a critical six hours on June 4 from the time Kyron was last seen and the time he was reported missing. Staton is correct in that no one can go back and reclaim those critical six hours during which Kyron could have been taken to California, Idaho or Canada before the initial 911 call was made. But now Staton acknowledges his agency could have and should have responded differently than it did on and immediately after June 4.

As most of the nation knows by now, the search for Kyron Horman was the most extensive and expensive search and rescue effort in Oregon history. But that’s because for the first several days the Sheriff’s Office viewed Kyron’s disappearance as a lost child who wandered off on his own rather than a possible or likely crime.

Staton told KGW, “At first, we thought it was a child who walked away from school.” Staton now says if somehow they could have figured out earlier that Kyron was abducted, they would have done things differently. Staton now admits that waiting days before beginning to interview teachers, students and parents hurt the investigation because, “Once the days passed, people began to lose their train of thought and what they did or didn’t see.”

The Portland Police Bureau (PPB) is Oregon’s largest police department with 95 budgeted detectives. . . . . . Yet Portland’s vastly more experienced detectives have been conspicuously absent from the Kyron Horman case as MCSO tried to solve this case mostly without Portland’s help, despite the recent announcement of the cost-shifting Task Force.

At his September 15 press conference, Staton talked much about the task force as a responsible business model. On the six-month anniversary of Kyron’s disappearance Staton finally confessed to the Oregonian’s Maxine Bernstein what many in the public and media already suspected:
"I wanted to know what's going on because I lost confidence in the investigation," he said. "I felt the case was moving towards a cold case, and I was concerned. We had collected a ton of information, and nothing was being answered."

After watching Sgt. Jan Kubic and other detectives rack up tens of thousands of dollars each in Kyron-related overtime, the sheriff finally admits he had lost confidence in a million dollar investigation that has produced no arrests, no identified persons of interest, no indictments, no physical evidence related to Kyron or anyone else.

http://victoriataftkpam.blogspot.com/2010/12/mccain-kyron-kops-confident-yet.html

IslandGirl wrote:ITA with all of this, also I will NEVER understand why they assumed he had just wandered off, IMO when it's a 7 yr old child you act as if it's an abduction in no matter what, if he wandered off then no harm no foul.

He didn't just wander off. If he wasn't forcibly removed (unlikely) then he went out to the parking lot to meet someone he knew and left with them.

IslandGirl wrote:..but, to wait two days to interview the students, parents and teachers because of an assumption is an absurdly stoopid way to start an investigation, especially considering how crucial those first few days are. I think MCSO is in way over their head, and targeted her from the get go, then considering the liability of a school losing a

That was a huge mistake. For missing persons, if you aren't on them within 24 hours it's over. The Sheriff's office just ought to admit they blew it big time.

IslandGirl wrote: I don't know and there are enough alternate theories for me to consider this a crime of opportunity, a sexual predator who are known to place themselves in vocations that allow them to be closer to kids or to volunteer for positions that do the same, I can see the flip side also.

He didn't take his books, so either he never intended to leave the school, and if he did, he intended to return. I was under the impression the landscaper that worked at the Horman house (whom Kaine apparently knew nothing about) also worked at the school as a contractor there (I might be wrong on that -- maybe someone else knows for certain).

I suppose Kyron may have left with him voluntarily if he had been asked to leave, like maybe a story that the landscaper was going to take him to see his father or step-mother.

IslandGirl wrote:Then toss in K & D and their airing of every bit of dirty laundry about Terri, but God forbid any come out about them, and you have a toxic mix. I do think from reading OL, ppl are starting to view it the same way. I also think if Terri wanted to harm him, there would have been easier ways than a busy school filled with not only students and their parents but also the public. Extremely frustrating to see these cases being handled this way when objective observers can plainly see what LE is trying to spin, and most aren't buying

Unfortunately, once the blinders go up, they focus on one person to the exclusion of all others, then get trapped when the person they focused on is actually innocent. That could be the other motivation to release e-mails to Dizzyray and not Kaine. By splitting them up it sort of softens the attack on Terri and gives LE some wiggle-room to back off and refocus the investigation elsewhere.

I think it is likely a stranger to Kyron could have gotten him to walk out the door with them. In a school, children don't see adults as strangers. They see them as either teachers or parents. And they obey blindly because you get in trouble if you don't mind the teacher.

If a teacher or a parent said, "Come look at this ...", most children would just follow. By the time they realize something is wrong, they are in trouble. And it is too late to change your mind. In this case, Kyron was gone by the time he figured out this person was not what he thought they were.

The school opened its doors wide for everyone, and did not even bother to take names. They invited in danger. And Kyron paid the price. If little Johnny or Tommy had been in the wrong place at the wrong time, this story might be taking different turns. But, it was Kyron, and they have a twisted family who provides the drama for them.

I'm really enjoying reading everyone's comments about this case. JMO, but I believe LE should have kept the 4 of them under the suspicion tent and not released any of the e-mails or information they gleaned to any of them. I am dumbfounded that LE considered the option of Kyron wandering off. Must have missed that tidbit of information. I have a question:
Have we seen the e-mails that Desiree spoke of on the Today Show (I believe) where she talks about Terri's e-mails and their content?
There is a very good article in Women in Crime Ink titled "Where is the Outrage" by Pat Brown.
http://womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/2010/12/where-is-outrage.html

For the prosecution to move forward with a case that lacks conclusive evidence, or for the police department to close a case without solid proof of the suspect being dead and guilty, there has to be a reason. The most likely scenario involves a case that is really dogging the police department. Either the press is making their lives miserable or the family and community just won't let it rest. It gets to the point where closing out the case would stop the negative publicity in its tracks. The Chandra Levy trial came on the heels of a major police trashing by a series of articles written in The Washington Post.

I certainly hope this isn't where Kyron's case is headed.

This is also an interesting story about Julie Rea Harper which was just featured on Investigation Discovery.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2931404&page=1

Untangling a Murder Mystery
Julie Rea Harper Was Convicted of Murdering Her Son. But Was a Serial Killer the Real Culprit?


If not for author Diane Fanning, this lady might still be in jail. She also has a very good article Titled "Women, Innocence and Inspiration." http://dianefanning.blogspot.com/2010/11/women-innocence-and-inspiration.html

It is strange, Gracie, that LE is releasing certain tidbits of info to Desiree and Kaine yet are keeping other info close to the vest- or are they? Are they releasing this info to Kaine and Desiree? Is this why LE said to be careful what they are saying in the press about what info LE is sharing with them-that it may not be anything they shared in truth? Do they really have any other info being held close to the vest? What is Tony divulging, if he is able to know info in the case? Do we want to believe any info that comes from Desiree or Kaine that LE has not let the public in on?

Unfortunately, LE dare not confess they screwed up lest they be held accountable for monies spent and risk not having more given to solve this case. I fear too much pressure from anyone will cause LE to set up Terri as the fall guy-happens all of the time where money and politics factor in.

Thanks for the links, Gracie! Interesting!

You know, aj, if the LE would have said that Desiree was suspect or "released" info pointing in her direction, then everyone would be after her. After all, she had a hard time making Kyron's bed even though it was in the late afternoon that she found out Kyron was missing. Isn't it odd that a bed is usually made in the morning? I'm just making a point here, not an accusation.

In the documentary, Cropsey, a friend of the pervert said this while holding up a picture of him (I must paraphrase-it was some time ago since I watched it, but this part made a bit of an impact with me):

"If I say, 'Look! This man is a child killer' then everyone will believe it. If I hold up this picture and say, 'Look! This man is a philanthropist' then everyone will believe it."

With Terri, it was: "This woman acted strange at the press conference-she KNOWS what happened!" And her "going to the gym" remark on FB and the hour unaccounted for, etc., you have a perp without evidence.

Sherry, it wasn't just morning for Desiree. It was TWO WEEKS LATER! She had left his bed like that for weeks, not just that day. It had nothing to do with missing her child. It was just lack of housekeeping. One I am guilty of, but I don't consider it a message to my loved ones.

Maat~You're right! Two weeks later! Maybe Dez had a premonition that something bad was about to happen to Kyron. {snark}

Well said, aj!

I also think politics needs to be taken out of law enforcement.

I agree with everyone that it does seem like LE tunnel vision (or side agendas) may be in play in Kyron's case; at least from what has been made public. Imo, it would be prudent for LE to start missing person investigations on 2 tracks; one LE team interviewing those closest to the victim who are statistically most likely suspects and/or have inside knowledge, and another team simultaneously investigating known offenders in the area, surveillance cameras, persons present at the locale (if known)... This would help minimize delays in tracking down early leads and tunnel vision. But, sadly, I think limited resources, budget restraints, and lack of experience prevent most departments from doing such. Then, it seems, once they've locked into a theory or suspect (right or wrong), LE either can't or won't change gears in some cases and the crime goes unsolved or the wrong person is held accountable. The more elusive, practiced or smarter the perp, the greater likelihood LE will get pigeon holed by the most obvious solution - even if there is no evidence to support it, imo.

There was a re-run on ID Discovery yesterday about BTK. He had not struck in 9 years when he attacked and killed Vicki Wegerle in the middle of the day and took off in her car. Her husband came home for lunch and found her dead. She had been bound, tortured and killed. For 18 years, her husband Bill was the prime suspect and he and his two children lived under the cloud that goes with it. When Dennis Rader was apprehended and confessed to (bragged about) all of his killings, Bill Wegerle was finally cleared. He had failed polys. He didn't have a history of violence, no affairs, nothing besides the failed polys and statistics to implicate him. It was such a vicious crime, LE figured it was a crime of passion. Of course, it was instead a crime of opportunity and Vicki was a random victim of an experienced serial killer. At least her husband wasn't tried and convicted like some victims of LE tunnel vision.

I really do support LE and think they generally do a good job keeping order and get it right most of the time. But, I agree with Awaiting Justice; when there are a lot of avenues to explore and the case is complex and high-profile (and time is of the essence), we often see someone close to the victim put under a cloud of suspicion even if they are fully investigated and no evidence is produced against them. This is especially true if that person is telling the truth, but fails a poly (which studies show happens up to 36% of the time).

Again, Terri may be guilty of arranging Kyron's disappearance. I don't know. Maybe LE has more circumstantial evidence that we don't know about. But, as long as they don't have enough to name her a suspect and there are other viable possibilities, she is presumed innocent and I hope LE is aggressively exploring those other possibilities.

Peace to Kyron and all who love him....

Sherry wrote:You know, aj, if the LE would have said that Desiree was suspect or "released" info pointing in her direction, then everyone would be after her. After all, she had a hard time making Kyron's bed even though it was in the late afternoon that she found out Kyron was missing. Isn't it odd that a bed is usually made in the morning? I'm just making a point here, not an accusation.

In the documentary, Cropsey, a friend of the pervert said this while holding up a picture of him (I must paraphrase-it was some time ago since I watched it, but this part made a bit of an impact with me):

"If I say, 'Look! This man is a child killer' then everyone will believe it. If I hold up this picture and say, 'Look! This man is a philanthropist' then everyone will believe it."

With Terri, it was: "This woman acted strange at the press conference-she KNOWS what happened!" And her "going to the gym" remark on FB and the hour unaccounted for, etc., you have a perp without evidence.

What struck me as off about the bed making was that Kyron only visits his mom twice a month ... if that. That bed went unmade for two weeks before Kyron went missing. Grant it, maybe the boy's room is off limits and it's Kyron and Quinn's job to take care of it, but I would have though removing the sheets and washing them was Mom's job.

Elphie and Sherry, it is amazing how much stock a lot of the public puts into statements released by the press. We can see in this case, they don't have to be statements made by LE, just statements made by someone involved in the case (like KH and DY). If we had only heard from LE at the start of the case that they suspect "one of the 4 parents is responsible for arranging the disappearance" and none of the unconfirmed personal stuff about Terri was leaked, what would people likely be speculating?:

--Desiree did it? She has two sons, isn't the custodial parent for either, admits to being so depressed by Kaine's cheating that she locked herself in a room for 2 months (even though she had a son in school and was about to give birth), didn't fight for custody of Kyron when she was informed that he was very unhappy and wanted to live with her...
--Kaine did it? He is a cheater, appears to be controlling, wouldn't consider a change in custody even though he knew Kyron was unhappy, was so uninvolved that he didn't know Kyron was going to his mom's the weekend he disappeared, was stressed about his marriage going bad and money..
--Tony did it? He knows how to skew an investigation, he never encouraged his wife to take custody of her two boys even though he knew Kyron wanted to live with them..
--Terri did it? She was the last parent to see him (but she was also the one who took care of him everyday and spent more time with him than any of the other parents), she recently allowed her older son to leave the home, was stressed about her marriage going bad and money...

I'm not accusing any of them, but agreeing with the point that it's fairly easy to make anyone look suspicious once the idea is planted. If we hadn't heard the allegations about Terri's alcohol abuse, sexting, and hateful emails, she and Tony would probably be the least suspicious of the four. Let's say the allegations about Terri are true - if we had heard about the personal indiscretions of the other 3 (and you know they exist, for everyone), she still wouldn't be standing out like a sore thumb. The MFH allegation is the exception. If that could be verified, it shows a criminal mind and a disregard for human life and would definitely make her look the most suspicious. But so far, we don't if the MFH or any of the irrelevant allegations against her are true. She is in the hot seat because KH put her there, DY jumped on board (and LE allowed or encouraged it). It could easily have been any one of them in the hot seat if the other 3 had turned against them early on. I think LE planted the seed of doubt to Kaine and he ran with it; working hard to keep anything personal about him off-limits. I agree with those that think that persecuting Terri in the media was the worst thing the other family members and LE could have done (whether the allegations against her are true or not). They made sure she lawyered up and are probably surprised that she knows how to keep her mouth shut when it's in her best interest...

AwaitingJustice, I did a thesis on lie detectors in 1999. The most reputable published study at the time indicated that deceit is wrongfully detected 36% of the time. There are so many different numbers depending on the study, but none of them show high accuracy rates. I just did a little research and came up with this in Wikipedia (which lists sources - you can Google Polygraph accuracy Wikipedia); it indicates that the results inaccurately show deceit when the subject is actually telling the truth 39% of the time. The Wikipedia article used the Wegerle example too, but it could have referenced any of the many examples of people who were wrongfully accused due to inaccurate poly results. Btw, your Ridgeway example of an inaccurate "no deceit" result allowing a dangerous killer to walk free really burns me up. In any case, I agree 100% with your belief that polys are not used appropriately and too often lead LE in the wrong direction.

From Wikipedia:
Polygraphy has little credibility among scientists.[20][21] Despite claims of 90-95% validity by polygraph advocates, and 95-100% by businesses providing polygraph services,[22] critics maintain that rather than a "test", the method amounts to an inherently unstandardizable interrogation technique whose accuracy cannot be established. A 1997 survey of 421 psychologists estimated the test's average accuracy at about 61%, a little better than chance.[23] Critics also argue that even given high estimates of the polygraph's accuracy a significant number of subjects (e.g. 10% given a 90% accuracy) will appear to be lying, and would unfairly suffer the consequences of "failing" the polygraph.

Kyron Horman Task Force sends out list of 490 people interviewed from school, and asks if they're missing anyone
Read story here

AwaitingJustice, it was an interesting thesis topic, but pretty depressing when you look that deeply into how inaccurate polys are and how much weight is put upon them. I concur completely with your concerns about the perils of LE and the public relying on polygraph results as a true indicator of guilt or innocence.

When it comes to circumstantial evidence, I see it as a double-edged sword. There are people who commit crimes in such a way as to leave no physical evidence (by choosing specific locale, knowing how to scrub a scene completely, sheer luck...). While the perps would never be convicted if physical evidence directly connected to them was required, they can be rightfully locked up with solid circumstantial evidence that leaves no reasonable doubt that they are indeed responsible. Scott Peterson and Drew Petersen are two examples of sociopath killers that I think belong behind bars, even though the cases against them are largely circumstantial. The circumstantial evidence against them is overwhelming, to the exclusion of all others, imo. However, I agree with you that circumstantial cases are bogus if the circumstances are created/positioned to fit around a presumption of guilt (especially from failed polys) and there are reasonable alternate theories - pure railroading. You gave some good examples of such.

The jury decision that still puzzles me the most is OJ Simpson's murder acquittal. Tons of physical and circumstantial evidence, but propaganda and technical confusion seemed to drive the verdict. This is the prime example of your point about juries being easily sold, imo. Though in this case they were sold against what LE was presenting. I often wonder what the verdict would have been if that trial were to have taken place with today's level of public awareness regarding DNA and forensics (from CSI, Forensic Files, Dateline...).

I hope when someone(s) go to trial for whatever happened to Kyron that it's a legitimate solid case and the verdict results in justice for Kyron and all who love him.

[quote="Sherry"]Kyron Horman Task Force sends out list of 490 people interviewed from school, and asks if they're missing anyone
Read story here[/quote
Thanks for the link Sherry! Wow, this surprised me. When I first read it, I thought that LE was probably at a dead end with their previous "isolated incident" theory and going back to ground zero. Making sure any adult present at the school was accounted for seems like something that should have been done much earlier. But, maybe LE is double checking because they're zeroing in on someone(s) and don't want got to get blindsided by claims that they hadn't considered everyone present at the place of abduction. As always with this case, I don't know exactly what to make of it. My gut tells me that LE is back to square one, but I hope instead that they've actually got the right person(s) in their cross-hairs and want to make sure there is no wiggle room for the perp(s) to point at someone else.

[quote="truthbtold"]

Sherry wrote:Kyron Horman Task Force sends out list of 490 people interviewed from school, and asks if they're missing anyone
Read story here[/quote
Thanks for the link Sherry! Wow, this surprised me. When I first read it, I thought that LE was probably at a dead end with their previous "isolated incident" theory and going back to ground zero. Making sure any adult present at the school was accounted for seems like something that should have been done much earlier. But, maybe LE is double checking because they're zeroing in on someone(s) and don't want got to get blindsided by claims that they hadn't considered everyone present at the place of abduction. As always with this case, I don't know exactly what to make of it. My gut tells me that LE is back to square one, but I hope instead that they've actually got the right person(s) in their cross-hairs and want to make sure there is no wiggle room for the perp(s) to point at someone else.

YW! I'm thinking they are going back to square one...but hope as you do that they have someone "in their crosshairs".

12/11/2010

ALL CREDIT GOES TO VALLHALL @ http://www.thehinkymeter.com/


The Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office task force assigned to the investigation of the disappearance of then 7-year-old Kyron Horman has just sent out a letter to the families of Skyline Elementary students and staff stating the following:

Skyline Families,

Below you will find a message from the Kyron Horman Investigation Task Force. As part of our ongoing effort to cooperate with law enforcement in this matter, we are forwarding it to you and asking for your cooperation.

Regards,

Ben Keefer
Principal

Members of the Skyline School Community, One of the many tasks that law enforcement has undertaken in the course of the investigation of the disappearance of Kyron Horman has been to try and determine as definitely as possible the identity of every individual who was on the Skyline School campus at any time between 8:00 am and noon on June 4, 2010. This has proved a more complex endeavor than one might think. Many sources of information have been consulted.

To date, law enforcement has identified 490 people who were present. In order to ensure, as far as is humanly possible, that this is a complete and accurate list, one of the remaining steps we feel is necessary is to share that list with you, the members of the Skyline Community, and ask you to examine it and inform us of:


1. ANY INDIVIDUAL (to include a minor child), other than a Skyline Student, who you have reason to believe was on the campus between 8-12 on June 4 but is not on this list; and
2. ANY INDIVIDUAL who is on the list but who you have reason to believe was not on campus during that time.

We realize that this entails some diminution of the privacy of those on the list. To that end we have removed the names of the Skyline students on our list. Additionally, other minor children are simply referred to as “minor child of ____” and not personally named. To others, we ask your understanding that this is a necessary step in an important criminal investigation and, in any event, would probably occur ultimately through media coverage of court proceedings.

You may respond to this inquiry in one of two ways:
a. Call the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office tipline at (503) 261-2847 and leave a voice mail with the following information:
1. Your name
2. That you are calling in response to the “Skyline School project”
3. A contact number where you can be reached
4. Information regarding any individual who should be on or off the list below
b. Send an e-mail to Skyline.Flyer@mcso.us and include the same information listed in items 1-4, above.

Your prompt response to this inquiry will assist law enforcement greatly in completing one of our many tasks. Thank you in advance for taking the time to review this list and respond.

- The Kyron Horman Investigation Task Force

Some people are asking – shouldn’t they already have done this? Yes, they already have. And unless I’ve lost count, they’ve done this in one way or the other – twice. This is strictly my opinion, but I find this latest move by MCSO, especially since it is coming on the heels of Sheriff Staton’s comments showing confidence in a successful completion of the investigation, comforting. I’ll explain why.

Let’s visit the Caylee Anthony murder case going on right now. A great deal of time has been invested by the defense team of Casey Anthony in trying to find anyone who searched Suburban Drive anytime between June 16th, 2008 and December 11, 2008, when Caylee’s remains were finally found, in an attempt to build a theory that the body was not on Suburban Drive prior to Casey being indicted and going to jail on October 14th, 2008. And while we still haven’t seen the defense produce a credible witness that could bolster this theory, it is logical to assume they will still try to use the fact that searchers were on that street more than once and didn’t find Caylee prior to December 11 – so she could have not been there. Weak as it, they still have the right to try to reach one juror and convince them Caylee was not placed on Suburban Drive by Casey.

This latest move by MCSO, at least to me, appears to be an attempt to show due diligence in verifying the facts as they have been presented so far in prior interviews of parents, students, and staff at Skyline Elementary on June 4th, and any identified potential “players” in Kyron’s disappearance. Let’s look at what their request reduces to:

■Here is a list 490 people we have been told were at Skyline Elementary on June 4th between the hours of 8 a.m. and 12:00 p.m. Please review this list and…
■If there are any people you know were at Skyline during those hours (including minor children who were not students at Skyline) and who are not on this list, please let us know.
■If there are any people on this list as being at Skyline during those hours but you have knowledge that places them elsewhere, please let us know.

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But why wait 6 months to send this out I wonder? kh

But why wait 6 months to send this out I wonder? kh

I really wonder about the timing too kh. I can only think of 3 possible reasons:

1. To publicly counteract claims that they have tunnel vision and have been singularly focused all along; predicting the defense tactics and nipping them in the bud
2. Because they haven't been able to substantiate the isolated incident theory after 6 months (ie they really were tunnel visioned) and they have no choice than to start all over and do what should have been 6 months ago
3. They believe that a specific someone suspicious was there but haven't been able to place him/her at the scene to date...

truthbtold wrote:

But why wait 6 months to send this out I wonder? kh

I really wonder about the timing too kh. I can only think of 3 possible reasons:

1. To publicly counteract claims that they have tunnel vision and have been singularly focused all along; predicting the defense tactics and nipping them in the bud
2. Because they haven't been able to substantiate the isolated incident theory after 6 months (ie they really were tunnel visioned) and they have no choice than to start all over and do what should have been 6 months ago
3. They believe that a specific someone suspicious was there but haven't been able to place him/her at the scene to date...

4. They have no evidence to support that Terri committed the crime or attempted to engage in a murder-for-hire plot. Cuz if they did, she'd a done been arrested.

kh

awaiting justice wrote:KH,

I wish that the jury of pub opinion, was as impartial in Haleigh`s case.

It seems to me that while the majority, seemed to have jumped on the side of LE in Kyrons case for the first 4 months of in their weak investigation, it is now changing.. .....

You said it, friend. Haleigh's case is cold, cold, cold. Some people seem satisfied because the family/relatives are in prison on unrelated drug charges. But I still want to see Justice for Haleigh. kh

4. They have no evidence to support that Terri committed the crime or attempted to engage in a murder-for-hire plot. Cuz if they did, she'd a done been arrested.
kh

Yep, a strong likelihood. A more direct and better way of stating my second point! If they haven't been able to prove any of the allegations against Terri (or another family member or known person), they cannot justify holding onto the isolated incident theory and focusing singularly in the direction.
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AwaitingJustice: Love your passion and knowledge. I agree with a lot of your points, but I'm a little more middle ground on circumstantial evidence. I think it's very important and sometimes cases should go forward even if there is no physical evidence. I don't think throwing out very strong circumstantial evidence cases and waiting for perps to mess up in the future is the only answer to minimize wrongful convictions (for me anyway). I think better and more objective LE processes, training and higher standards (maybe even 3rd party pre-case audits) for the prosecution and defense teams could be another option. And, getting away from the poly would probably drastically reduce wrongful suspicion leading to wrongful charges/convictions in the first place. No matter what, LE and juries are made up of fallible people and there will always be mistakes. But, you are so right that we shouldn't be seeing the same type of tunnel vision mistakes over and over by LE when they can't find evidence to support a tight and reasonable conclusion. I think you'd make a great advocate.

Also, regarding your previous post, it would indeed be great to see Dateline or 48 Hours do a piece on polygraph testing - where they actually showed people lying and telling the truth and then showed the polygrapher's results - quite an eye opener for the public. It is a little strange that it hasn't already been done (at least that I can remember). When one of the shows recently did a case study with people witnessing enacted crimes, it was unbelievable how many witnesses picked the wrong person out of a photo or in-person line up just minutes later. The unreliability of eye witness testimony blew me away... But, that's another subject....

Justice for Kyron....

Dang it, AwaitingJustice, I was gonna pull myself off the computer and get something done today. Now you've peeked my interest and I'm off to research the cases you highlighted.

Oh, and if LE never did check the landfills/dumps in Kyron's area, that is shameful. I hope they did, but if they were so focused on Terri taking him to Sauvie Island, they probably didn't. I'd assume we'd have heard about it if they had. Too late now, and still no Kyron. Too sad...