Defense team discussion thread- strategy and Defense Attorney Mark O'Mara, and Donald R. West

[KZ]

Discussion thread for comments about the Defense team strategy, Mark O'Mara (MOM) and Donald R. West (DW).

Thank you all for keeping this thread on topic!

[WeeBonnie]

Do we think MOMs new tack that he's using as a fundraising pitch- many average Joes would have ALSO shot a teenaged neighbor- will be used as part if the defense?
He has already stated he intends to go after Trayvon's "character" so I guess this adds up to portraying him as a very shootable teenager.

Thoughts?

[serenaz1]

I was disgusted with the wording on his recent post, it sounds like some wacko extremist wrote it rather than an officer of the court.

If they want to beg, go for it, but at least have some dignity & respect for the law & humanity.

[KimmyK]

I was disgusted with the wording on his recent post, it sounds like some wacko extremist wrote it rather than an officer of the court.

If they want to beg, go for it, but at least have some dignity & respect for the law & humanity.

Very well said!

[serenaz1]

I was disgusted with the wording on his recent post, it sounds like some wacko extremist wrote it rather than an officer of the court.

If they want to beg, go for it, but at least have some dignity & respect for the law & humanity.

Very well said!

Thanks! :) O'Mara's pandering to ignorance really turns my stomach though, ugh.

[KimmyK]

Very well said!

Thanks! :) O'Mara's pandering to ignorance really turns my stomach though, ugh.

Same here. Perhap$ the dollar $ign$ are making him lo$e hi$ mind?

[KZ]

I was disgusted with the wording on his recent post, it sounds like some wacko extremist wrote it rather than an officer of the court.

If they want to beg, go for it, but at least have some dignity & respect for the law & humanity.

Very well said!

I also agree. I actually wonder if MOM wrote that passage, or if his partner Lorna Truett wrote it, or West, the new atty. Did MOM actually approve that language? It was so unnecessary, and potentially incendiary.

All that was really needed was a "Thank you very much for your continued support" couple of phrases. Maybe a few comments on how difficult, long, and expensive the defense process will be. The creative writing exercise was unnecessary, and offensive to some who might otherwise have felt that the site was engaging in dignified fund raising. This was not an opportunity to "wax eloquent."

However, I don't interpret that passage as any kind of call to take up arms and murder your neighbors. He has said over and over that the GZ defense is self-defense. So when you read it, you have to keep in mind that he is referring to self defense. He should have made that MUCH clearer, if he had to say anything at all about that.

[Gizmo711]

Do we think MOMs new tack that he's using as a fundraising pitch- many average Joes would have ALSO shot a teenaged neighbor- will be used as part if the defense?
He has already stated he intends to go after Trayvon's "character" so I guess this adds up to portraying him as a very shootable teenager.

Thoughts?

Seeing as Zimmerman will have to take the stand, this approah may be suicide. The first question asked would be "do you know every neighbor in that complex". "did you ever see Trayvon loitering in the complex". "did you ever see him bothering other tenants in the complex". DID YOU EVER EVEN SEE TRAYVON BEFORE THAT NIGHT"?

O'Mara will be making a big mistake if he tries to blame the victim in this case. He has been doing this in order to capture a certain audience for donations but it wouldn't be a smart move in front of a jury.

All we can hope for is that one of those donor's don't end up on the jury and want to secure their investment (so to speak).

[Tamta]

Do we think MOMs new tack that he's using as a fundraising pitch- many average Joes would have ALSO shot a teenaged neighbor- will be used as part if the defense?
He has already stated he intends to go after Trayvon's "character" so I guess this adds up to portraying him as a very shootable teenager.

Thoughts?

Seeing as Zimmerman will have to take the stand, this approah may be suicide. The first question asked would be "do you know every neighbor in that complex". "did you ever see Trayvon loitering in the complex". "did you ever see him bothering other tenants in the complex". DID YOU EVER EVEN SEE TRAYVON BEFORE THAT NIGHT"?

O'Mara will be making a big mistake if he tries to blame the victim in this case. He has been doing this in order to capture a certain audience for donations but it wouldn't be a smart move in front of a jury.

All we can hope for is that one of those donor's don't end up on the jury and want to secure their investment (so to speak).

When did MOM officially state this?
Does anyone have links so I can hear that myself?
TIA.


From what I gather of MOM's strategy up to the last bond hearing, I can not see how that would be necessary in a defense strategy at trial.

Even if MOM does not move to dismiss or make a motion for SYG, there are still easily attainable grounds for a SYG or Self Defense jury instruction.

At trial, the burden of proof is on the State, and it seems like to date, MOM has a lot of other evidence, solid and flimsy, that he could present to cast reasonable doubt on Murder 2 without resorting to the character assasination of Trayvon.

I can not seem him making such a poor move that may upset jurors.

[serenaz1]

I also agree. I actually wonder if MOM wrote that passage, or if his partner Lorna Truett wrote it, or West, the new atty. Did MOM actually approve that language? It was so unnecessary, and potentially incendiary.

All that was really needed was a "Thank you very much for your continued support" couple of phrases. Maybe a few comments on how difficult, long, and expensive the defense process will be. The creative writing exercise was unnecessary, and offensive to some who might otherwise have felt that the site was engaging in dignified fund raising. This was not an opportunity to "wax eloquent."

However, I don't interpret that passage as any kind of call to take up arms and murder your neighbors. He has said over and over that the GZ defense is self-defense. So when you read it, you have to keep in mind that he is referring to self defense. He should have made that MUCH clearer, if he had to say anything at all about that.

LOL Before I edited my post, I had the same word, incendiary, but not 'potentially'. I think it is flat-out incendiary, it fired up emotions, which was its intent. Even if the 'self-defense' verbage had been added, it would've been a bit better, but still smarmy imo.

[Tamta]

Very well said!

I also agree. I actually wonder if MOM wrote that passage, or if his partner Lorna Truett wrote it, or West, the new atty. Did MOM actually approve that language? It was so unnecessary, and potentially incendiary.

All that was really needed was a "Thank you very much for your continued support" couple of phrases. Maybe a few comments on how difficult, long, and expensive the defense process will be. The creative writing exercise was unnecessary, and offensive to some who might otherwise have felt that the site was engaging in dignified fund raising. This was not an opportunity to "wax eloquent."

However, I don't interpret that passage as any kind of call to take up arms and murder your neighbors. He has said over and over that the GZ defense is self-defense. So when you read it, you have to keep in mind that he is referring to self defense. He should have made that MUCH clearer, if he had to say anything at all about that.

BBM

KZ

I agree.

However looking at what MOM had admitted into evidence on 6/20 and 6/29, all of it countering Lester's assertion that the 'evidence is strong', I am also wondering if MOM is thinking 'no case' and is considering a motion to dismiss or if he is just lining his ducks up in the beginning and preparing for the appellate court if it proves to be necessary.

[ustwin]

Someone please explain the difference in SMARMY from one attorney to the other. I see Benjamin Crump doing no less than MOM for TM. So each has their side and both are plugging to incite what they want you to believe.
I completely DISAGREE that TM is the INNOCENT TEENAGER, some folks need to take their blinders off and live in the REAL WORLD. Society is NOT what we think it is anymore.

[Tamta]

RE: Defense Intent to Attack character of TM


Snipped.
BBM.

I have spent a considerable amount of time seeking direct quotes from O'Mara or West on counsel's intentions to call into question the character of Trayvon as part of the defense strategy.

I have found none yet, but I have found excerpts such as this:

Defense attorneys will likely try to attack Trayvon's character, as the media has already done by repeatedly mentioning his marijuana use, Crump said. A toxicology report noted trace amounts of THC, a component of marijuana, in Trayvon's blood and urine. Crump said he's heard rumors that someone at Trayvon's high school tried to sell video of Trayvon and other boys fighting at school.

-Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara did not return a call for comment. On NBC's Today show Friday, he declined to talk about the evidence.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-18/George-Zimmerman-Trayvon-Martin-police-documents/55061830/1

[Tamta]

Someone please explain the difference in SMARMY from one attorney to the other. I see Benjamin Crump doing no less than MOM for TM. So each has their side and both are plugging to incite what they want you to believe.
I completely DISAGREE that TM is the INNOCENT TEENAGER, some folks need to take their blinders off and live in the REAL WORLD. Society is NOT what we think it is anymore.

This is an Order, April 30, reminding ALL lawyers CONNECTED to the case not just counsel representing parties to the case, that they may be subject to discipline by the court for public comments that they know or should know are likely to prejudice the proceedings.

I see that the court can address that with Crump if it chooses.
http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/order%20on%20media%20requests.pdf

[angela_nw]

RE: Defense Intent to Attack character of TM
Snipped.BBM.... Crump said he's heard rumors that someone at Trayvon's high school tried to sell video of Trayvon and other boys fighting at school.

FWIW, I saw what I believe to be that video posted at a pro-GZ site a long time ago. First of all, the kids were in what looked like a school playground area, secondly, they were not fighting but more like play-wrestling, third, Trayvon, if it was even him, was dressed in a very preppy long-sleeved polo shirt and fairly thin (not baggy) pants and sneakers. Hardly the thug. I hope it surfaces so people can see how ridiculous it is.

[Guest]

Someone please explain the difference in SMARMY from one attorney to the other. I see Benjamin Crump doing no less than MOM for TM. So each has their side and both are plugging to incite what they want you to believe.
I completely DISAGREE that TM is the INNOCENT TEENAGER, some folks need to take their blinders off and live in the REAL WORLD. Society is NOT what we think it is anymore.

Good to see you ustwin, it is true, Crump & the female regular attorney for Trayvon is a regular on JVM yet many overlook that fact. Each attorney is doing the same thing, trying to get to the viewers the information they want the audience to hear. It's tiresome at times, I usually skip JVM these days.

[Tamta]

Do we think MOMs new tack that he's using as a fundraising pitch- many average Joes would have ALSO shot a teenaged neighbor- will be used as part if the defense?
He has already stated he intends to go after Trayvon's "character" so I guess this adds up to portraying him as a very shootable teenager.

Thoughts?

OK, I think that I finally found where this may have begun.

I think Robles, with the help of Crump, was the genesis of this rumor of character attack by defense through these two irresponsible articles.

Robles quoting Crump:
“It’s one thing to think something like that, but to type it?” Crump said. “You really gotta be racist.”

O'Mara: (On a comment of Crump who refers to GZ's Myspace page as evidence of his racism.)

“We believe that inviting public scrutiny of the contents of this social media account invites scrutiny of the social media accounts of all parties involved. While these social media accounts may be public, we will not comment on them publicly, as they may be part of the evidence produced at trial.”

Robles:
"O’Mara seemed to be suggesting that Trayvon’s social media accounts would be brought up at trial as well." (Notice that MOM's may be is changed to would be by the author.)

Robles quoting Crump in response to MOM's response to him:
“I always assume they are going to attack the victim,” Crump said when told of O’Mara’s statement Wednesday.


I am posting these articles on the Media Thread as well.

Fact:
- SA nor Defense has not moved to enter any social media accounts into evidence


Sources:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/02/2779667/zimmermans-attorney-trayvons-social.html#morer#storylink=cpy

http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases?start=20

[WeeBonnie]

Interesting theory that it was ghost written, KZ! I'm wondering if he didn't farm it out and tell them to use their net research and list out the categories of Zimmerman supporters they had amassed from research so far and appeal directly to each of them. It read like an odd laundry list. If so- its really unfortunate that someone was so callous as to not hide that group of supporters. Or foolish not to edit better.
I know lawyers and doctors can both be kind of callous in this way of thinking about life and death but they should be ever mindful to hide it.
MOM is learning the hard way about the way back machine, no doubt.

I also agree. I actually wonder if MOM wrote that passage, or if his partner Lorna Truett wrote it, or West, the new atty. Did MOM actually approve that language? It was so unnecessary, and potentially incendiary.

All that was really needed was a "Thank you very much for your continued support" couple of phrases. Maybe a few comments on how difficult, long, and expensive the defense process will be. The creative writing exercise was unnecessary, and offensive to some who might otherwise have felt that the site was engaging in dignified fund raising. This was not an opportunity to "wax eloquent."

However, I don't interpret that passage as any kind of call to take up arms and murder your neighbors. He has said over and over that the GZ defense is self-defense. So when you read it, you have to keep in mind that he is referring to self defense. He should have made that MUCH clearer, if he had to say anything at all about that.

[Tamta]

Interesting theory that it was ghost written, KZ! I'm wondering if he didn't farm it out and tell them to use their net research and list out the categories of Zimmerman supporters they had amassed from research so far and appeal directly to each of them. It read like an odd laundry list. If so- its really unfortunate that someone was so callous as to not hide that group of supporters. Or foolish not to edit better.
I know lawyers and doctors can both be kind of callous in this way of thinking about life and death but they should be ever mindful to hide it.
MOM is learning the hard way about the way back machine, no doubt.

I also agree. I actually wonder if MOM wrote that passage, or if his partner Lorna Truett wrote it, or West, the new atty. Did MOM actually approve that language? It was so unnecessary, and potentially incendiary.

All that was really needed was a "Thank you very much for your continued support" couple of phrases. Maybe a few comments on how difficult, long, and expensive the defense process will be. The creative writing exercise was unnecessary, and offensive to some who might otherwise have felt that the site was engaging in dignified fund raising. This was not an opportunity to "wax eloquent."

However, I don't interpret that passage as any kind of call to take up arms and murder your neighbors. He has said over and over that the GZ defense is self-defense. So when you read it, you have to keep in mind that he is referring to self defense. He should have made that MUCH clearer, if he had to say anything at all about that.

BBM

Bonnie and KZ,

Perhaps these same folks are administering the Defense blog:

O’Mara hired Shawn Vincent of Orlando’s Digital Marketing Revolution to manage a Facebook page as well.

Snipped.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234_p2/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html#storylink=cpy

[WeeBonnie]

Hi Tampta
I actually saw MOM on the news saying that they would be examining Trayvons character. It was a good month or so back and I had posted about it shortly after. Not sure which station of which batch of interviews it was from, maybe the first bond hearing? but I'm sure someone will find it eventually. But it did come from Mom himself. Wished I had saved the link.

Do we think MOMs new tack that he's using as a fundraising pitch- many average Joes would have ALSO shot a teenaged neighbor- will be used as part if the defense?
He has already stated he intends to go after Trayvon's "character" so I guess this adds up to portraying him as a very shootable teenager.

Thoughts?

OK, I think that I finally found where this may have begun.

I think Robles, with the help of Crump, was the genesis of this rumor of character attack by defense through these two irresponsible articles.

Robles quoting Crump:
“It’s one thing to think something like that, but to type it?” Crump said. “You really gotta be racist.”

O'Mara: (On a comment of Crump who refers to GZ's Myspace page as evidence of his racism.)

“We believe that inviting public scrutiny of the contents of this social media account invites scrutiny of the social media accounts of all parties involved. While these social media accounts may be public, we will not comment on them publicly, as they may be part of the evidence produced at trial.”

Robles:
"O’Mara seemed to be suggesting that Trayvon’s social media accounts would be brought up at trial as well." (Notice that MOM's may be is changed to would be by the author.)

Robles quoting Crump in response to MOM's response to him:
“I always assume they are going to attack the victim,” Crump said when told of O’Mara’s statement Wednesday.


I am posting these articles on the Media Thread as well.

Fact:
- SA nor Defense has not moved to enter any social media accounts into evidence


Sources:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/02/2779667/zimmermans-attorney-trayvons-social.html#morer#storylink=cpy

http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases?start=20

[Tamta]

Hi Tampta
I actually saw MOM on the news saying that they would be examining Trayvons character. It was a good month or so back and I had posted about it shortly after. Not sure which station of which batch of interviews it was from, maybe the first bond hearing? but I'm sure someone will find it eventually. But it did come from Mom himself. Wished I had saved the link.

OK, I think that I finally found where this may have begun.

I think Robles, with the help of Crump, was the genesis of this rumor of character attack by defense through these two irresponsible articles.

Robles quoting Crump:
“It’s one thing to think something like that, but to type it?” Crump said. “You really gotta be racist.”

O'Mara: (On a comment of Crump who refers to GZ's Myspace page as evidence of his racism.)

“We believe that inviting public scrutiny of the contents of this social media account invites scrutiny of the social media accounts of all parties involved. While these social media accounts may be public, we will not comment on them publicly, as they may be part of the evidence produced at trial.”

Robles:
"O’Mara seemed to be suggesting that Trayvon’s social media accounts would be brought up at trial as well." (Notice that MOM's may be is changed to would be by the author.)

Robles quoting Crump in response to MOM's response to him:
“I always assume they are going to attack the victim,” Crump said when told of O’Mara’s statement Wednesday.


I am posting these articles on the Media Thread as well.

Fact:
- SA nor Defense has not moved to enter any social media accounts into evidence


Sources:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/02/2779667/zimmermans-attorney-trayvons-social.html#morer#storylink=cpy

http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases?start=20

Thanks.

I actually could not attack video today.

It took me long enough tracing it back as far as i did!

I will look into video as well.

[WeeBonnie]

MOM needs some better Internet consultants then! This goof up and the active MySpace and still (to this day maybe) active Paypal account are all pretty big pratfalls. BTW- is there anyway to check and see of GZs personal
Peter Pan is still going? I guess it's worth donating a penny to find out.

Bonnie and KZ,

Perhaps these same folks are administering the Defense blog:

O’Mara hired Shawn Vincent of Orlando’s Digital Marketing Revolution to manage a Facebook page as well.

Snipped.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234_p2/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html#storylink=cpy

[WeeBonnie]

My apologies, I forgot this wasn't the Internet presence thread. Oy. I need to get some sleep.

[Tamta]

MOM needs some better Internet consultants then! This goof up and the active MySpace and still (to this day maybe) active Paypal account are all pretty big pratfalls. BTW- is there anyway to check and see of GZs personal
Peter Pan is still going? I guess it's worth donating a penny to find out.

Bonnie and KZ,

Perhaps these same folks are administering the Defense blog:

O’Mara hired Shawn Vincent of Orlando’s Digital Marketing Revolution to manage a Facebook page as well.

Snipped.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234_p2/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html#storylink=cpy

No Ebay for GZ!

Well would it be considered a bank account?
would he be compelled to close that as per the new bail order?
I would have to check.

But I understood, from another lawyer, that he could leave FL, open an account, or change his curfew for work purposes he would have to seek permission from the court to do so.

I have not donated (lol) but I have read of commenters donating and that PayPal does work, but MOM got on that one.

[Tamta]

Deadly Combinations: How Self- Defense Laws Pairing Immunity with a Presumption of Fear Allow Criminals to “Get Away with Murder”

http://www.baynews9.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/Elizabeth-megale-article-stand-your-ground-0401.pdf

Interesting SYG paper.

Don't know where to 'file' it.

[WeeBonnie]

I think what GZ could do with his old Paypal acct (that accumulated another 7k after he told Mom it was closed) is designate a new bank account as a recipient of funds. But the email address could be the same. At least Paypal let me do it. I'm not sure if theres anyway to get the money out without a bank acct though. Is that why the judges said he couldn't have one? Because I don't think it will stop his personal fundraising.

MOM needs some better Internet consultants then! This goof up and the active MySpace and still (to this day maybe) active Paypal account are all pretty big pratfalls. BTW- is there anyway to check and see of GZs personal
Peter Pan is still going? I guess it's worth donating a penny to find out.

No Ebay for GZ!

Well would it be considered a bank account?
would he be compelled to close that as per the new bail order?
I would have to check.

But I understood, from another lawyer, that he could leave FL, open an account, or change his curfew for work purposes he would have to seek permission from the court to do so.

I have not donated (lol) but I have read of commenters donating and that PayPal does work, but MOM got on that one.

[Tamta]

I think what GZ could do with his old Paypal acct (that accumulated another 7k after he told Mom it was closed) is designate a new bank account as a recipient of funds. But the email address could be the same. At least Paypal let me do it. I'm not sure if theres anyway to get the money out without a bank acct though. Is that why the judges said he couldn't have one? Because I don't think it will stop his personal fundraising.

No Ebay for GZ!

Well would it be considered a bank account?
would he be compelled to close that as per the new bail order?
I would have to check.

But I understood, from another lawyer, that he could leave FL, open an account, or change his curfew for work purposes he would have to seek permission from the court to do so.

I have not donated (lol) but I have read of commenters donating and that PayPal does work, but MOM got on that one.

http://www.gzdefensefund.com/

Today GZ, tomorrow......?

[Gizmo711]

Seeing as Zimmerman will have to take the stand, this approah may be suicide. The first question asked would be "do you know every neighbor in that complex". "did you ever see Trayvon loitering in the complex". "did you ever see him bothering other tenants in the complex". DID YOU EVER EVEN SEE TRAYVON BEFORE THAT NIGHT"?

O'Mara will be making a big mistake if he tries to blame the victim in this case. He has been doing this in order to capture a certain audience for donations but it wouldn't be a smart move in front of a jury.

All we can hope for is that one of those donor's don't end up on the jury and want to secure their investment (so to speak).

When did MOM officially state this?
Does anyone have links so I can hear that myself?
TIA.


From what I gather of MOM's strategy up to the last bond hearing, I can not see how that would be necessary in a defense strategy at trial.

Even if MOM does not move to dismiss or make a motion for SYG, there are still easily attainable grounds for a SYG or Self Defense jury instruction.

At trial, the burden of proof is on the State, and it seems like to date, MOM has a lot of other evidence, solid and flimsy, that he could present to cast reasonable doubt on Murder 2 without resorting to the character assasination of Trayvon.

I can not seem him making such a poor move that may upset jurors.

Tables are turned in a SYG trial. It's up to the defendant to prove that it was infact a SYG. In a self defense it would be up to the state. This is why I doubt that O'Mara will be using the SYG approach.

[serenaz1]

Someone please explain the difference in SMARMY from one attorney to the other. I see Benjamin Crump doing no less than MOM for TM. So each has their side and both are plugging to incite what they want you to believe.
I completely DISAGREE that TM is the INNOCENT TEENAGER, some folks need to take their blinders off and live in the REAL WORLD. Society is NOT what we think it is anymore.

Crump is not involved in the court case, he's advocating for the victim's family. I'm focusing on the players involved in the case, not all the other stuff.

Trayvon was an INNOCENT person walking home, there's nothing you can make up to change that fact.

[Tamta]

When did MOM officially state this?
Does anyone have links so I can hear that myself?
TIA.


From what I gather of MOM's strategy up to the last bond hearing, I can not see how that would be necessary in a defense strategy at trial.

Even if MOM does not move to dismiss or make a motion for SYG, there are still easily attainable grounds for a SYG or Self Defense jury instruction.

At trial, the burden of proof is on the State, and it seems like to date, MOM has a lot of other evidence, solid and flimsy, that he could present to cast reasonable doubt on Murder 2 without resorting to the character assasination of Trayvon.

I can not seem him making such a poor move that may upset jurors.

Tables are turned in a SYG trial. It's up to the defendant to prove that it was infact a SYG. In a self defense it would be up to the state. This is why I doubt that O'Mara will be using the SYG approach.

BBM

Hi Gizmo,

Well it does not look good for a SYG motion with Lester after the recent financial issues of GZ. I do not see him ruling in favor of it and I bet he really does not want to be put in the position where he has to do so wither. However, at the same time, I do not see MOM considering Lester as the last word on anything.

MOM can appeal a SYG decision also, there is a more recent case which i will search for and add to this post later on, in which this was done.

Even if MOM does not go for a SYG hearing, it does not preclude the Defense from asserting SYG at trial and asking a jury to decide on that, and it is within GZ's constitutional rights to do so, and at trial the defense simply as to produce just a quantum of evidence.

That seems to put the defense at an advantage right now in challenging Murder 2.

I am using a PDF of a judges comprehensive opinion sent personally to another blogger, I could not find another link to it on line.

http://www.talkleft.com/legal/Wyche-Hirsch.pdf
___________________________

Snipped.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/02/16/2644582/judge-fiu-student-must-stand-trial.html#storylink=cpy

Since the Legislature did not specify how or when immunity from prosecution is granted, a series of court battles ensued. Finally, in December 2010, the Florida Supreme Court ruled that judges should be the ones to weigh the evidence under a looser standard than the “beyond the reasonable doubt” standard used in jury trials.

Since that ruling, South Florida judges have dismissed several high-profile murder cases based on self-defense claims.

[WeeBonnie]

Tamta

This is not the video I saw or the same quote - but MOM says here he'd want to bring in Trayvons social media usage as well. It was in reaction to infammatory GZs MySpace posts:
http://loop21.com/life/zimmermans-attorney-trayvons-social-media-could-be-examined-court

[justanopinion]

Just my opinion, worth whatever few pennies it might be worth.

George's social media in my opinion is worth looking at as it is an indicator of his character and thought process. The Fact that he against advice choose to pursue TM and made statements about these people always getting away, as well as the fact he was the only one with a deadly weapon requires us to look at who GZ is as a person. Does he have personal integrity? Does he have biases that would have influenced his decision making?

TM's social media is not; again in my opinion; relevant as GZ would not have had access to that when making his decisions. GZ could only base his actions on what was observable at the time he was interacting with Trayvon. Trayvon may have been no angel but at the time of this incident Trayvon was not a perp or a suspect; he was not doing anything other than walking down the street. He was not out cruising the streets at an unreasonable time of day, that could cause suspicion.

what I am trying to say is that if a reasonable person was to have seen TM that night (even if he had his grills in, wearing a hoodie, or even (not that he was according to GZ's call to LE) sparking a blunt considered him suspicious enough to report to LE and follow. Would a reasonable person follow someone who they suspect of wrongdoing into an darkened part of a complex? Would a reasonable person attempt to detain or confront a stranger who they thought could be dangerous (by GZ's own statement to LE Trayvon had something in his pocket and there was "something wrong with him").

I consider myself a reasonable person and not afraid of many things. But as a well adjusted, socially responsible person I can say without a doubt that I may have called LE to report wrongdoing in my neighbourhood if there was a need but I would not have acted the way GZ did with following, confronting and then shooting someone.

An incident this week in my neighbourhood occurred where someone was firing a pellet gun, police were called, and we stayed the hell out of it. Not my job, and I really like being this side of the grass. Had TM had a weapon it could have just as easily been GZ that was shot.. Sorry but sunshine and fresh air are my priority. I am not paid to or willing to risk those things by being a vigilante.

Sorry for the long post, but to sum it up... my opinion... GZ is the one under scrutiny and his character is important as part of the fact finding... TM can only be judged by what was observable on that night!

[Tamta]

Tamta

This is not the video I saw or the same quote - but MOM says here he'd want to bring in Trayvons social media usage as well. It was in reaction to infammatory GZs MySpace posts:
http://loop21.com/life/zimmermans-attorney-trayvons-social-media-could-be-examined-court

Thanks Bonnie

It looks like this writer sourced Robles.

O'Mara responded to the topic of sm on the GZ blog and then Robles cited his response but changed it's meaning by switching O'Mara's 'could' to 'would'.

I think any assertions that O'Mara is planning on using Trayvons SM accounts are based on media rumors. He simply made a general statement that if the state moves to admit GZs as evidence, then Trayvons could be admitted as well. That's how the rules go.

O'Mara's general strategy, in and out of the courtroom right now, appears to highlight as much as possible the humanity of his client and his defense, mainly for purposes of the jury pool and the self defense claim. I don't expect to see him making any moves that would undermine that, now or further in the proceedings.

[serenaz1]

Just my opinion, worth whatever few pennies it might be worth.

George's social media in my opinion is worth looking at as it is an indicator of his character and thought process. The Fact that he against advice choose to pursue TM and made statements about these people always getting away, as well as the fact he was the only one with a deadly weapon requires us to look at who GZ is as a person. Does he have personal integrity? Does he have biases that would have influenced his decision making?

TM's social media is not; again in my opinion; relevant as GZ would not have had access to that when making his decisions. GZ could only base his actions on what was observable at the time he was interacting with Trayvon. Trayvon may have been no angel but at the time of this incident Trayvon was not a perp or a suspect; he was not doing anything other than walking down the street. He was not out cruising the streets at an unreasonable time of day, that could cause suspicion.

what I am trying to say is that if a reasonable person was to have seen TM that night (even if he had his grills in, wearing a hoodie, or even (not that he was according to GZ's call to LE) sparking a blunt considered him suspicious enough to report to LE and follow. Would a reasonable person follow someone who they suspect of wrongdoing into an darkened part of a complex? Would a reasonable person attempt to detain or confront a stranger who they thought could be dangerous (by GZ's own statement to LE Trayvon had something in his pocket and there was "something wrong with him").

I consider myself a reasonable person and not afraid of many things. But as a well adjusted, socially responsible person I can say without a doubt that I may have called LE to report wrongdoing in my neighbourhood if there was a need but I would not have acted the way GZ did with following, confronting and then shooting someone.

An incident this week in my neighbourhood occurred where someone was firing a pellet gun, police were called, and we stayed the hell out of it. Not my job, and I really like being this side of the grass. Had TM had a weapon it could have just as easily been GZ that was shot.. Sorry but sunshine and fresh air are my priority. I am not paid to or willing to risk those things by being a vigilante.

Sorry for the long post, but to sum it up... my opinion... GZ is the one under scrutiny and his character is important as part of the fact finding... TM can only be judged by what was observable on that night!

EXCELLENT post, thanks! The way you worded your thoughts is a good way to explain the social media aspect & overview of Z's character/actions that night.

[WeeBonnie]

Tks Tamta. I believe the statement I saw MOM make was that if GZ's character would be examined, them they would have to examine Trayvons as well. It was an off the cuff remark in a local video interview- I thought it was a round the time he reported threats to his office. Not certain.
At any rate, of he is going to convince a jury that Travon instigated a fight wih GZ and was trying to get at a gun then he's obviously going to do all he can to portray Trayvon as someone comfortable with violence. I don't think he can defend GZ without treading into the dreaded "blame the victim" defense.
It seems like it shouldn't matter - but a healthy fear or dislike for black teens is a common thread among those who believe GZ did no wrong.
So if I come across he video, I will send you the link for sure.
It shocked me to hear MOM say it at the time, but the more I think on it, the more I see MOM doesn't have much choice.
Tks for all the juicy links! Hope to return the favor soon!

Tamta

This is not the video I saw or the same quote - but MOM says here he'd want to bring in Trayvons social media usage as well. It was in reaction to infammatory GZs MySpace posts:
http://loop21.com/life/zimmermans-attorney-trayvons-social-media-could-be-examined-court

Thanks Bonnie

It looks like this writer sourced Robles.

O'Mara responded to the topic of sm on the GZ blog and then Robles cited his response but changed it's meaning by switching O'Mara's 'could' to 'would'.

I think any assertions that O'Mara is planning on using Trayvons SM accounts are based on media rumors. He simply made a general statement that if the state moves to admit GZs as evidence, then Trayvons could be admitted as well. That's how the rules go.

O'Mara's general strategy, in and out of the courtroom right now, appears to highlight as much as possible the humanity of his client and his defense, mainly for purposes of the jury pool and the self defense claim. I don't expect to see him making any moves that would undermine that, now or further in the proceedings.

[sharona]

I was disgusted with the wording on his recent post, it sounds like some wacko extremist wrote it rather than an officer of the court.

If they want to beg, go for it, but at least have some dignity & respect for the law & humanity.

If this post doesn't work, its because I don't understand the mechanics yet..

The day of the bond hearing, O'Mara blamed Trayvon for his own death.. Yesterday O'Mara stated that this was a "gun control" case.. He certainly is thrashing about.

So we have racism, partisan politics, blaming the victim and now gun control.

O'Mara is beginning to look like a very average cheesebll.

[Tamta]

Tks Tamta. I believe the statement I saw MOM make was that if GZ's character would be examined, them they would have to examine Trayvons as well. It was an off the cuff remark in a local video interview- I thought it was a round the time he reported threats to his office. Not certain.
At any rate, of he is going to convince a jury that Travon instigated a fight wih GZ and was trying to get at a gun then he's obviously going to do all he can to portray Trayvon as someone comfortable with violence. I don't think he can defend GZ without treading into the dreaded "blame the victim" defense.
It seems like it shouldn't matter - but a healthy fear or dislike for black teens is a common thread among those who believe GZ did no wrong.
So if I come across he video, I will send you the link for sure.
It shocked me to hear MOM say it at the time, but the more I think on it, the more I see MOM doesn't have much choice.
Tks for all the juicy links! Hope to return the favor soon!

Thanks Bonnie

It looks like this writer sourced Robles.

O'Mara responded to the topic of sm on the GZ blog and then Robles cited his response but changed it's meaning by switching O'Mara's 'could' to 'would'.

I think any assertions that O'Mara is planning on using Trayvons SM accounts are based on media rumors. He simply made a general statement that if the state moves to admit GZs as evidence, then Trayvons could be admitted as well. That's how the rules go.

O'Mara's general strategy, in and out of the courtroom right now, appears to highlight as much as possible the humanity of his client and his defense, mainly for purposes of the jury pool and the self defense claim. I don't expect to see him making any moves that would undermine that, now or further in the proceedings.

BBM

I do not think he even has to go that route, this is one scenario I see MOM putting forth:

1. Dee Dee says that Trayvon tells her that he is back at Brandy's place.
2. Brandy believes that Trayvon was there for some reason, we do not know why.
3. About 40 minutes pass between when Trayvon is recorded on the 7-11 camera and when he was shot- according to the break down of his call with Dee Dee he has time to go back to Brandy's and be at the T with GZ.
4. Trayvon is not observed by PD or Paramedics with his headphones on and connected to his phone, his button on his hoodie, and the purchased items from 7-11 in the plastic bag. All of those things had been removed by Trayvon apparently and placed directly on his person even though GZ initially reports seeing some of them.
5. In the NEN call we hear GZ 'running', then slowing down and maybe stopping or pacing- he is tapping it seems his flash light on something; he clearly does not see Trayvon.
6. Car Keys appear to be first thing dropped by GZ, small flashlight found on, which MOM may argue that he was on the way back to the truck and definitely did not have a gun out- walking with keys/flash light on and a gun in hand?
7. Gun powder ring observed at night around Trayvon's entrance wound? Close range shot, and he is going to place a lot of weight on his expert witness for gun forensics.
8. Context of burglaries, community concerns of kids using walk through, burglars escaping through rear gate- grounds for reasonable suspicion.
9. Witness accounts put GZ on bottom- basis for reasonable fear and inability to retreat.
10. It is not illegal to get out of his car.
11. NEN operator clearly does not appear to understand GZs initial directions and encourages GZ to not follow Trayvon but to get a specific physical address. This can be seen as part of GZs 'legal' justification for leaving his truck and heading towards cut through.
12. There is nothing fact specific that puts GZ beyond the T prior to the beginning of his confrontation with Trayvon, so MOM does not need to argue GZs legal justification for going along down the walk way past the T which would appear farther than the alleged circumstances claim as necessary.


I see the defense putting forth a scenario that Trayvon returned to his father's girlfriend house for whatever reason, headed back on the cut through, removed pin and ear buds and placed in pocket in preparation for a possible confrontation and to seek out GZ, and proceeded back towards the T and the confrontation near the bushes with GZ happens there as the witness accounts confirm- begins as verbal escalates rapidly to physical. This also offers a logical framework for the trail of evidence for the defense theory also.

No need for SM.

[sharona]

Hi Tampta
I actually saw MOM on the news saying that they would be examining Trayvons character. It was a good month or so back and I had posted about it shortly after. Not sure which station of which batch of interviews it was from, maybe the first bond hearing? but I'm sure someone will find it eventually. But it did come from Mom himself. Wished I had saved the link.

OK, I think that I finally found where this may have begun.

I think Robles, with the help of Crump, was the genesis of this rumor of character attack by defense through these two irresponsible articles.

Robles quoting Crump:
“It’s one thing to think something like that, but to type it?” Crump said. “You really gotta be racist.”

O'Mara: (On a comment of Crump who refers to GZ's Myspace page as evidence of his racism.)

“We believe that inviting public scrutiny of the contents of this social media account invites scrutiny of the social media accounts of all parties involved. While these social media accounts may be public, we will not comment on them publicly, as they may be part of the evidence produced at trial.”

Robles:
"O’Mara seemed to be suggesting that Trayvon’s social media accounts would be brought up at trial as well." (Notice that MOM's may be is changed to would be by the author.)

Robles quoting Crump in response to MOM's response to him:
“I always assume they are going to attack the victim,” Crump said when told of O’Mara’s statement Wednesday.


I am posting these articles on the Media Thread as well.

Fact:
- SA nor Defense has not moved to enter any social media accounts into evidence


Sources:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/02/2779667/zimmermans-attorney-trayvons-social.html#morer#storylink=cpy

http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases?start=20

O'Mara did say Trayvon had caused his own death in a press conference after the second bond hearing. Big mistake IMO..
The goons are thugs, but Trayvon was neither a thug nor a goon.

[sharona]

Trayvon was still wearing the memorial pin on the front of his hoodie when he died.. Its in the inventory.

He wore a headset with a wire not bluetooth earbud.

[WeeBonnie]

Interesting- but witnesses do not now put Trayvon on top- they are both prone and wrestling.
So the button in his pocket? Never heard this or anything being odd with the earbuds or Tea and Skittles. Is this from the new dump?

At any rate, MOM has said on camera hell be examining his charachter- he has already also said he caused his own death by choosing to have an altercation. So it's ready started to go down that road. As much as I hate it, he pretty much is forced to. As we can see from Trayvons defenders some people donsee the whole incident as forgivable if they believe Trayvon was a "future"'felon. It makes GZ the profiler more correct and reasonable in his assumptions and the whole incident less of a tragedy in the eyes of people judging. He's got to put blame on Trayvon- and I'm sure painting him in the worst light possible will be part of it.
When I first heard MOM say this Inwas disgusted. But now, as KZ pointed out, he's just doing his job. But I know when it comes to trial I will be disgusted all over again.
IMHO

Tks Tamta. I believe the statement I saw MOM make was that if GZ's character would be examined, them they would have to examine Trayvons as well. It was an off the cuff remark in a local video interview- I thought it was a round the time he reported threats to his office. Not certain.
At any rate, of he is going to convince a jury that Travon instigated a fight wih GZ and was trying to get at a gun then he's obviously going to do all he can to portray Trayvon as someone comfortable with violence. I don't think he can defend GZ without treading into the dreaded "blame the victim" defense.
It seems like it shouldn't matter - but a healthy fear or dislike for black teens is a common thread among those who believe GZ did no wrong.
So if I come across he video, I will send you the link for sure.
It shocked me to hear MOM say it at the time, but the more I think on it, the more I see MOM doesn't have much choice.
Tks for all the juicy links! Hope to return the favor soon!

BBM

I do not think he even has to go that route, this is one scenario I see MOM putting forth:

1. Dee Dee says that Trayvon tells her that he is back at Brandy's place.
2. Brandy believes that Trayvon was there for some reason, we do not know why.
3. About 40 minutes pass between when Trayvon is recorded on the 7-11 camera and when he was shot- according to the break down of his call with Dee Dee he has time to go back to Brandy's and be at the T with GZ.
4. Trayvon is not observed by PD or Paramedics with his headphones on and connected to his phone, his button on his hoodie, and the purchased items from 7-11 in the plastic bag. All of those things had been removed by Trayvon apparently and placed directly on his person even though GZ initially reports seeing some of them.
5. In the NEN call we hear GZ 'running', then slowing down and maybe stopping or pacing- he is tapping it seems his flash light on something; he clearly does not see Trayvon.
6. Car Keys appear to be first thing dropped by GZ, small flashlight found on, which MOM may argue that he was on the way back to the truck and definitely did not have a gun out- walking with keys/flash light on and a gun in hand?
7. Gun powder ring observed at night around Trayvon's entrance wound? Close range shot, and he is going to place a lot of weight on his expert witness for gun forensics.
8. Context of burglaries, community concerns of kids using walk through, burglars escaping through rear gate- grounds for reasonable suspicion.
9. Witness accounts put GZ on bottom- basis for reasonable fear and inability to retreat.
10. It is not illegal to get out of his car.
11. NEN operator clearly does not appear to understand GZs initial directions and encourages GZ to not follow Trayvon but to get a specific physical address. This can be seen as part of GZs 'legal' justification for leaving his truck and heading towards cut through.
12. There is nothing fact specific that puts GZ beyond the T prior to the beginning of his confrontation with Trayvon, so MOM does not need to argue GZs legal justification for going along down the walk way past the T which would appear farther than the alleged circumstances claim as necessary.


I see the defense putting forth a scenario that Trayvon returned to his father's girlfriend house for whatever reason, headed back on the cut through, removed pin and ear buds and placed in pocket in preparation for a possible confrontation and to seek out GZ, and proceeded back towards the T and the confrontation near the bushes with GZ happens there as the witness accounts confirm- begins as verbal escalates rapidly to physical. This also offers a logical framework for the trail of evidence for the defense theory also.

No need for SM.

[Requiem]

The defense filed a motion this afternoon asking for Judge Lester to step down according to the Miami Herald.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/13/2894366/judge-orders-release-of-witness.html#moreb

[WeeBonnie]

Has anyone seen reports that MOZm has been emailing bloggers about the case?
Sound quite odd - anyone with mitre details?
TIA!

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