Rebecca Zahau Found Dead at Historic Mansion 7/13/11 #2

Inparadise wrote:

GlaringError wrote:

I used IE and Firefox...

anyway... anyone going to jail yet lol????

I think a boat captain should volunteer first

And which boat captain would that be........the captain of "HIS GLORY", or some tug on the MISSISSIPPI?

Captain Hook.......

Haven't been locked out that I am aware of, but didn't get any updates on the threads for more than a week. This has been happening to me for a while. Last week was the worst.

Inparadise wrote:

GlaringError wrote:

I used IE and Firefox...

anyway... anyone going to jail yet lol????

I think a boat captain should volunteer first

And which boat captain would that be........the captain of "HIS GLORY", or some tug on the MISSISSIPPI?

Perhaps one of those gentlemen would allow one of the ladies to volunteer first?

Marica wrote:Haven't been locked out that I am aware of, but didn't get any updates on the threads for more than a week. This has been happening to me for a while. Last week was the worst.

I was locked out again earlier this morning. I wish it would stop doing that.

Sheriff Gore Talks Arpaio, Birthers, News Media and Spreckels Cases

By Jennifer Vigil | September 28, 2012

In remarks before a Coronado civic group, Gore criticizes Arizona’s infamous sheriff and the media’s coverage of the deaths of Max Shacknai and Rebecca Zahau.

Snip - He also stood firmly by his department’s and the Coronado police’s conclusions that Rebecca Zahau committed suicide and Max Shacknai died in an accident in July 2011.

The physical evidence, he said, from toxicology to DNA to footprints, guided investigators.

“I was convinced beyond any kind of doubt that there was no way that could have been a murder,” he said of Zahau's death.

He is confounded by continued criticism of the departments’ findings in the cases, from both the Zahau family and the Shacknai boy’s mother.

“What is the motive for all of law enforcement to come together and conspire and lie about this case?” Gore asked. “We (are) all getting paid off by somebody? We let the facts and the evidence lead us to conclusions.”

He accused unscrupulous attorneys of manipulating grieving family members into pursuing questions about the cases and the media of drawing undue attention to the mansion deaths.

As an example, Gore cited, without naming the outlet, the television station that ran re-enactments of how Zahau might have bound and hung herself from a mansion balcony.

Gore said the station's news director, whom he did not name, told him that he believed Zahau killed herself, but only ran the re-enactments and other Spreckels stories because they drew strong ratings.

“They knew it was all BS, but the ratings went up every time,” he said. “It's a shame.”

The station that offered the re-enactments was KFMB. Dean Elwood, Channel 8's news director, denied Gore’s allegation.

“If he's implying that I said this, that’s not accurate,” Elwood said, adding that he stands by his station’s reporting.

More @ link - http://coronado.patch.com/articles/sheriff-gore-takes-on-arpaio-birthers-news-media-and-spreckels-case

Lash wrote:Sheriff Gore Talks Arpaio, Birthers, News Media and Spreckels Cases

By Jennifer Vigil | September 28, 2012

In remarks before a Coronado civic group, Gore criticizes Arizona’s infamous sheriff and the media’s coverage of the deaths of Max Shacknai and Rebecca Zahau.

Snip - He also stood firmly by his department’s and the Coronado police’s conclusions that Rebecca Zahau committed suicide and Max Shacknai died in an accident in July 2011.

The physical evidence, he said, from toxicology to DNA to footprints, guided investigators.

“I was convinced beyond any kind of doubt that there was no way that could have been a murder,” he said of Zahau's death.

He is confounded by continued criticism of the departments’ findings in the cases, from both the Zahau family and the Shacknai boy’s mother.

“What is the motive for all of law enforcement to come together and conspire and lie about this case?” Gore asked. “We (are) all getting paid off by somebody? We let the facts and the evidence lead us to conclusions.”

He accused unscrupulous attorneys of manipulating grieving family members into pursuing questions about the cases and the media of drawing undue attention to the mansion deaths.

As an example, Gore cited, without naming the outlet, the television station that ran re-enactments of how Zahau might have bound and hung herself from a mansion balcony.

Gore said the station's news director, whom he did not name, told him that he believed Zahau killed herself, but only ran the re-enactments and other Spreckels stories because they drew strong ratings.

“They knew it was all BS, but the ratings went up every time,” he said. “It's a shame.”

The station that offered the re-enactments was KFMB. Dean Elwood, Channel 8's news director, denied Gore’s allegation.

“If he's implying that I said this, that’s not accurate,” Elwood said, adding that he stands by his station’s reporting.

More @ link - http://coronado.patch.com/articles/sheriff-gore-takes-on-arpaio-birthers-news-media-and-spreckels-case

Several people were so fed up with Gore's bs that they got up and left in the middle of his talk.......

Hi, haven't been here in awhile and just came by to see if anything has changed. Reading and thinking about everything on the last few pages I was also wondering why Dina would bring so much attention to the case if she was guilty of harming Rebecca. I do believe she was at the mansion the night Rebecca died, and I think her sister went over there knowing Dina was there too.

If Dina believes Rebecca killed Max, what justice can she get now? Rebecca is dead, there can be no further punishment. There is no money to get in a civil suit from her estate. The only possibility might be that there is fear of murder charges hanging over her head, and knowing there is no statute of limitation on murder, it WOULD be to her advantage to make sure the suicide explanation is logical. It can ONLY be logical if there was guilt. It's also possible, that by making Rebecca out to be a murderer, she gets to hurt Jonah and indirectly blame him because HE brought this person into Max's life.

What bothers me is that Jonah claims he left a message that he claims started the entire thing in motion and makes suicide logical. Either he is telling the truth and he did leave the message, and he did honestly believe Rebecca killed herself, or he is covering for Dina and her sister. That last part just doesn't add up. Why wouldn't he want to see Dina locked up if she killed Rebecca? And why wasn't he more upset? He lost a son and then a lover. This is where it all points back at Adam. Maybe Dina and her sister were present, but it seems to me Rebecca was disposed of by Jonah and Adam. Jonah was probably enraged at Rebecca that she didn't prevent the accident and made sure that Dina and her sister had ample opportunity to look guilty for Rebecca's death.

I don't personally believe that Max was assaulted. I think it was a horrible accident. He could have fallen and hit his back and head numerous times on the way down. Max did something reckless, IMO, that put him in harms way. Whether or not he was alone or even encouraged to do something like that doesn't really change it from being an accident.

JMO for what it's worth. Anyone got ten cents?

starlight wrote:Hi, haven't been here in awhile and just came by to see if anything has changed. Reading and thinking about everything on the last few pages I was also wondering why Dina would bring so much attention to the case if she was guilty of harming Rebecca. I do believe she was at the mansion the night Rebecca died, and I think her sister went over there knowing Dina was there too.

If Dina believes Rebecca killed Max, what justice can she get now? Rebecca is dead, there can be no further punishment. There is no money to get in a civil suit from her estate. The only possibility might be that there is fear of murder charges hanging over her head, and knowing there is no statute of limitation on murder, it WOULD be to her advantage to make sure the suicide explanation is logical. It can ONLY be logical if there was guilt. It's also possible, that by making Rebecca out to be a murderer, she gets to hurt Jonah and indirectly blame him because HE brought this person into Max's life.

What bothers me is that Jonah claims he left a message that he claims started the entire thing in motion and makes suicide logical. Either he is telling the truth and he did leave the message, and he did honestly believe Rebecca killed herself, or he is covering for Dina and her sister. That last part just doesn't add up. Why wouldn't he want to see Dina locked up if she killed Rebecca? And why wasn't he more upset? He lost a son and then a lover. This is where it all points back at Adam. Maybe Dina and her sister were present, but it seems to me Rebecca was disposed of by Jonah and Adam. Jonah was probably enraged at Rebecca that she didn't prevent the accident and made sure that Dina and her sister had ample opportunity to look guilty for Rebecca's death.

I don't personally believe that Max was assaulted. I think it was a horrible accident. He could have fallen and hit his back and head numerous times on the way down. Max did something reckless, IMO, that put him in harms way. Whether or not he was alone or even encouraged to do something like that doesn't really change it from being an accident.

JMO for what it's worth. Anyone got ten cents?

My ten cents is that Jonah did not call Rebecca and leave a voice mail.........he wants Dina to think that Rebecca harmed Max, for a couple of reasons, the most important one being that he doesn't want Dina to know/think that he himself had something to do with Max's accident and the cover-up. Just my opinion.......

I agree with you. At this point, I don't see anything that suggests reasonably that he harmed his son, but it certainly looks very much like he does not want the details of how it happened known. Most people would defend the name of a deceased loved one accused of something like assaulting a child. He has never said a word in RZ's defense, that I know of.

starlight---
Interesting but it does not explain DS being seen at the home that night and it does not explain NR's presence there, either. Despite NR stating she called Rebecca at a certain time, the cell phone indicates NR called Rebecca an hour later--- one of the last phone calls Rebecca received. (And if the time stamp was incorrect for that call, then all the other calls would have shown an error in time placed/received, right?)

Where WAS JS and DS that night? Neither have strong alibis.

The marks on Max' back and the head injuries are NOT consistent with a fall. IMO, MS was given a blow across the head by some object PRIOR to the fall and the head concussion. The back injuries are, IMO, indicative of MS being dragged or a slam drag similar to what a car might have inflicted.

Speaking of cars, I find it rather odd the use/lack of use of certain vehicles during the days following MS' injury. And, of course, the one vehicle will never be offered for examination as it was "wrecked beyond repair" outside Phoenix when JS was reportedly driving the vehicle to AZ. (IIRC, JS had it towed to a junkyard following a one person crash? ) Totaled BUT JS walked away with no injuries? A miracle if believable.

Freckles... that is a VERY interesting theory!

The vehicle is a curious item.

If that type of scenario led to the murder of Rebecca Zahau, thats NUTS!!!!

GlaringError wrote:Freckles... that is a VERY interesting theory!

The vehicle is a curious item.

If that type of scenario led to the murder of Rebecca Zahau, thats NUTS!!!!

Huh? I hope you are extrapolating as Rebecca was found hanged.

I am only speculating the injuries on MS are not consistent with a primary fall.
Trying to think outside the box: Discount the fall and try to explain another way MS could have gotten those injuries. Rating high for childhood accidents is the automobile. Do you think these injuries could be related to a car striking him? Maybe, as he ran out to grab Ocean he is struck by the car.

If JS told others RZ was at fault, then perhaps MS' mother felt RZ was not diligent in watching and protecting MS. (Is it not interesting JS had "just left" the home? Said he went to the gym but no one there saw him. And, interestingly, a successful gym is suddenly shuttering up? Where did it go?)

Freckles... just saying that a simple accident leading to murder... that's nuts!

I would love to know, and think Dina should take into account, which insured losses were and were not claimed on.

Not wanting an insurance investigation speaks volumes. Why insure risks and then not claim when losses are realised?

Or maybe they were claimed on: the vehicle and the accident at the home.

I find this latest "interview" by Dina to be quite disturbing to say the least.

http://m.soundcloud.com/a2zpandc/dr-dina-shacknai

Inparadise wrote:I find this latest "interview" by Dina to be quite disturbing to say the least.

http://m.soundcloud.com/a2zpandc/dr-dina-shacknai

Thanks IP - YIKES, the photo scared the beejeebees out of me !! Not to be unkind but it looks like a cross between the Vampire Diaries and the Joker.

I couldn't get the sound to come in. Maybe need to join?

Eileen_Dover wrote:

Inparadise wrote:I find this latest "interview" by Dina to be quite disturbing to say the least.

http://m.soundcloud.com/a2zpandc/dr-dina-shacknai

Thanks IP - YIKES, the photo scared the beejeebees out of me !! Not to be unkind but it looks like a cross between the Vampire Diaries and the Joker.

I couldn't get the sound to come in. Maybe need to join?

You don't need to join.......Looks like Dina is ready for Halloween early........meow.

CLERB RUBBERSTAMPS SHERIFF's ZAHAU INVESTIGATION--NO SURPRISE!
Posted October 20, 2012
CNN iReport by gailpowell

If you haven't seen this yet, please take a look. Hats off to gailpowell for doing the right thing and keeping this story alive.

In San Diego County, alleged misconduct by sheriff's deputies is investigated by a body called the Citizens' Law Enforcement Review Board (CLERB.) It is this county office that I directed a complaint to in September 2011 regarding perceived misconduct & improper investigation of Rebecca Zahau's Coronado mansion death by the San Diego Sheriff's Dept. & Chief Bill Gore. Zahau was determined by Sheriff''s Dept. to have "committed suicide" in July 2011 by hanging herself at the Spreckels mansion after her boyfriend's son was injured & later died in a mishap there.

As a San Diego resident, this is yet another example of elected officials turning a blind eye on the public. This case is an embarrassment to San Diego, yet no governing body is willing to step up to the plate. As a taxpayer, I'm furious. As a citizen, I'm insulted.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-861642

The noblest motive is the public good?
Now that is rich!

So they REALLY don't care what the public is concerned with, do they? Just image and pay check.

Excellent link, BTW.
GP makes strong and valid points.

I love this quote:

"
Mark O
9:32 pm on Wednesday, October 31, 2012

A soft answer turns away wrath,but a harsh word stirs up anger. Rebecca said something that got her killed. My guess is it was "Jonah I will not lie for you!" He sent everyone away, suggested she board the dog, brought in some help, made sure he was seen on camera, then killed the woman."

That says it all.

Hi Glaring Error!

Was this a quote from MSM or another forum? If MSM, I would like to read the article.

TIA

Ann Rule's - Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors - book released today!

http://books.simonandschuster.com/Fatal-Friends-Deadly-Neighbors/Ann-Rule/9781451648287

Description
TOO CLOSE FOR COMFORT

It’s a chilling reality that homicide investigators know all too well: the last face most murder victims see is not that of a stranger, but of someone familiar. Whether only an acquaintance or a trusted intimate, such killers share a common trait that triggers the downward spiral toward death for someone close to them: they are masters at hiding who they really are. Their clever masks let them appear safe, kind, and truthful. They are anything but—and almost no one can detect the murderous impulses buried deep in their psyches.

These doomed relationships are the focus of Ann Rule’s sixteenth all-new Crime Files collection. In these shattering inside views of both headlined and little-known homicides, Rule speaks for vulnerable victims who relied on the wrong people. She begins with two startling novella-length investigations.

In July 2011, a billionaire’s Coronado, California, mansion was the setting for two horrifying deaths only days apart—his young son’s plunge from a balcony and his girlfriend’s ghastly hanging. What really happened? Baffling questions remain unanswered, as these cases were closed far too soon for hundreds of people; Rule looks at them now through the eyes of a relentless crime reporter. The second probe began in Utah when Susan Powell vanished in a 2009 blizzard. Her controlling husband, Josh, proved capable of a blind rage that was heartbreakingly fatal to his innocent small sons almost three years later in a tragedy that shocked America as the details unfolded. If anyone had detected the depth of depravity within Josh Powell, perhaps the family that loved and trusted him would have been saved. In these and seven other riveting cases, Ann Rule exposes the twisted truth behind the façades of Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.

Lash... that was random patch work.

here are some interesting links to me. I always find insurance issues interesting:

http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-100-Proof-Jonah-Shacknai-MURDERED-Rebecca-Zahau

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1622981/pg1

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Medicis_Pharmaceutical_(MRX)/Jonah_Shacknai

GlaringError wrote:Lash... that was random patch work.

here are some interesting links to me. I always find insurance issues interesting:

http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-100-Proof-Jonah-Shacknai-MURDERED-Rebecca-Zahau

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1622981/pg1

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Medicis_Pharmaceutical_(MRX)/Jonah_Shacknai

FYI: Arizona does not recognize common law marriage.........

Dunno about current law but CA did not recognize common law marriage UNLESS it was established first in another state and met that state's requirements. (1980s)

Freckles wrote:Dunno about current law but CA did not recognize common law marriage UNLESS it was established first in another state and met that state's requirements. (1980s)

Common law marriage in the US (from Wiki):

United States

Main article: Common-law marriage in the United States

Common-law marriages can be contracted in nine states (Alabama, Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, and Utah) and the District of Columbia. New Hampshire recognizes common-law marriage for purposes of probate only, and Utah recognizes common-law marriages only if they have been validated by a court or administrative order.[24] Otherwise, common-law marriages can no longer be contracted in any of the other states. All states, however, recognize common-law marriages that were validly contracted in other states, under the principles of comity and their rules for choice of law and conflict of laws. In California, for example, a marriage validly contracted in another jurisdiction is valid in California even if it could not be legally contracted within California; and a marriage that is not validly contracted in another U.S. jurisdiction is not valid in California, even if it could have been legally contracted in that state. The only exceptions to this rule, in California and many other states, are polygamous marriages, same-sex marriages, and any other marriages that are deemed "odious to public policy".

The requirements for a common-law marriage to be validly contracted differ from state to state and among Native American tribes. The Navajo Nation, for example, permits common-law marriage and allows its members to marry through tribal ceremonial processes and traditional processes.

Lash wrote:Hi Glaring Error!

Was this a quote from MSM or another forum? If MSM, I would like to read the article.

TIA

Just saw this.
IIRC, it is either a biblical quote or one of those axioms my grandmother used to use!
(You know: Sugar collects more flies than vinegar. That type of saying.)

Edited: Here it is
Clipped---
" The Bible says "a soft answer turns away wrath." (Prov. 15:1) And by being nice to someone, we can bring them to shame. (Prov. 25: 21,22) "

http://sundayschoolsources.com/lessons/enemy.htm

I never bothered to look at this letter until I saw it posted on another site: http://www.maxshacknai.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dina_Shacknai_Response_To_COPD.pdf

On that site they were questioning the significance of this statement in the letter:

"And why, by the way, did Detective
Atkins direct CPS not to call me after they were contacted about Max by doctors at Rady
Children's Hospital on Thursday, July 14,2011? This instruction to CPS by Detective Adkins is
documented."

To me, this says that Dina was not "in on" whatever went on in this "convoluted web" (as Dina called it). How could she be any kind of person of interest in why Max was injured? Everyone agrees she wasn't there when Max was injured. SOMEONE was pulling strings already ... don't call Dina.

I wonder what else Dina wasn't talked to about... and who else was instructed not to converse with Dina. And was the same instruction given in relation to the guy with all the undertakings?

GlaringError wrote:I never bothered to look at this letter until I saw it posted on another site: http://www.maxshacknai.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dina_Shacknai_Response_To_COPD.pdf

On that site they were questioning the significance of this statement in the letter:

"And why, by the way, did Detective
Atkins direct CPS not to call me after they were contacted about Max by doctors at Rady
Children's Hospital on Thursday, July 14,2011? This instruction to CPS by Detective Adkins is
documented."

To me, this says that Dina was not "in on" whatever went on in this "convoluted web" (as Dina called it). How could she be any kind of person of interest in why Max was injured? Everyone agrees she wasn't there when Max was injured. SOMEONE was pulling strings already ... don't call Dina.

I wonder what else Dina wasn't talked to about... and who else was instructed not to converse with Dina. And was the same instruction given in relation to the guy with all the undertakings?

BBM...I could be wrong, but I think the 'POI' (6, Dina being one of the 6) has to do with Rebecca's murder.

vegret wrote:

GlaringError wrote:I never bothered to look at this letter until I saw it posted on another site: http://www.maxshacknai.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dina_Shacknai_Response_To_COPD.pdf

On that site they were questioning the significance of this statement in the letter:

"And why, by the way, did Detective
Atkins direct CPS not to call me after they were contacted about Max by doctors at Rady
Children's Hospital on Thursday, July 14,2011? This instruction to CPS by Detective Adkins is
documented."

To me, this says that Dina was not "in on" whatever went on in this "convoluted web" (as Dina called it). How could she be any kind of person of interest in why Max was injured? Everyone agrees she wasn't there when Max was injured. SOMEONE was pulling strings already ... don't call Dina.

I wonder what else Dina wasn't talked to about... and who else was instructed not to converse with Dina. And was the same instruction given in relation to the guy with all the undertakings?

BBM...I could be wrong, but I think the 'POI' (6, Dina being one of the 6) has to do with Rebecca's murder.

I will bet that Dina doesn't know that GS & ES were there when Max fell..............nor does she think that they were.

GlaringError wrote:I never bothered to look at this letter until I saw it posted on another site: http://www.maxshacknai.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dina_Shacknai_Response_To_COPD.pdf

On that site they were questioning the significance of this statement in the letter:

"And why, by the way, did Detective
Atkins direct CPS not to call me after they were contacted about Max by doctors at Rady
Children's Hospital on Thursday, July 14,2011? This instruction to CPS by Detective Adkins is
documented."

To me, this says that Dina was not "in on" whatever went on in this "convoluted web" (as Dina called it). How could she be any kind of person of interest in why Max was injured? Everyone agrees she wasn't there when Max was injured. SOMEONE was pulling strings already ... don't call Dina.

I wonder what else Dina wasn't talked to about... and who else was instructed not to converse with Dina. And was the same instruction given in relation to the guy with all the undertakings?

Hi GlaringError!

BBM - I don't believe LE had a single POI in Maxie's accident. I think some of Maxie's family members assumed Rebecca knew more than what she was telling. Dina in her own accounts, did not trust Rebecca. In my opinion, Dina doubted Rebecca's story from the minute she learned of Maxie's accident. I believe Dina most likely doubted Jonah too. It is evident Dina doubted Rebecca when she requested Nina go talk to Rebecca, even beg her. Dina did not have knowledge of a possible CPS report when she sent Nina to beg Rebecca. Understandably, Dina was desperate.

GlaringError wrote:I never bothered to look at this letter until I saw it posted on another site: http://www.maxshacknai.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dina_Shacknai_Response_To_COPD.pdf

On that site they were questioning the significance of this statement in the letter:

"And why, by the way, did Detective
Atkins direct CPS not to call me after they were contacted about Max by doctors at Rady
Children's Hospital on Thursday, July 14,2011? This instruction to CPS by Detective Adkins is
documented."

To me, this says that Dina was not "in on" whatever went on in this "convoluted web" (as Dina called it). How could she be any kind of person of interest in why Max was injured? Everyone agrees she wasn't there when Max was injured. SOMEONE was pulling strings already ... don't call Dina.

I wonder what else Dina wasn't talked to about... and who else was instructed not to converse with Dina. And was the same instruction given in relation to the guy with all the undertakings?

My take on this "don't tell Dina" statement is different. I believe there are 2 likely possibilities.

1. It was no secret that she hated Rebecca-- and in particular, she hated Rebecca having ANYTHING to do with caring for Max. If Dina made commments to anyone at the hospital (or to LE) about how much she hated Rebecca, and if this involved a harsh confrontation with Jonah at the hospital, police possibly would not want Dina to know that the safety of Max's environment was going to be questioned in a report filed by social workers. They would not want to further "set her off", since she had a child in critical condition in ICU. Angry parents put staff, and other families and patients at risk, as well as making for a hostile work environment. Early in my career as a PICU nurse (mid 1980's), we had an angry parent pull out a loaded gun while we were working on a child in PICU. That was a terrifying experience for everyone in the unit that day. Dina has a documented history of angry, violent, and impulsive behavior with Jonah. They also couldn't reach her at her home for hours on end, the day of Max's fall, and LE may have been realistically concerned about her possible drug and alcohol use, as well as her mental health. (Particularly if Jonah told LE something about her history of drug and alcohol use during the hours that they couldn't rouse her at her home.)

2. The entirety of Max's safety and supervision was possibly going to be investigated, due to the circumstances of the fall, which appeared to include rambunctious indoor play around dangerous stairs, with outdoor toys (scooter). That includes supervision and the environment in both homes, which would be questioning their parenting decisions about rambunctious indoor play. As well as alcohol and drug use on both parents part. (Which I think they were privately questioning about Dina at that point. See #1 above.) LE knew this child was unlikely to survive. Again, police may have wanted to keep this report from Dina for a little while, again, to avoid precipitating an angry or impulsive outburst. From a kinder perspective, it wasn't something she needed to be thinking about at that point in time, with her son in critical condition-- LE was trying to keep her focus on her son.

I know others may not agree with this, but that's my take on this. LE did not think this child was a victim of any foul play-- and rightly so, IMO. LE could not rouse Dina at her home for hours-- they had to be very concerned about that. Nothing we have learned in the past year and a half indicates Max was a victim of foul play-- imo, everything we have learned more strongly points to a tragic accident, possibly as a result of Max attempting something unwise on the newel post--kids horsing around, that sort of thing. There may have been other kids present-- I'm on the fence about that.

Dina has been quite vocal that she believes Rebecca or her sister did something intentionally to Max to hurt him. Not only is that ridiculous, imo, but it makes me concerned she had a motive (vengeance/ vindictiveness) to murder Rebecca.

Excellent comment, KZ, as always! Well stated and ITA on all points.

Lash wrote:
Clipped---BBM

Hi GlaringError!

BBM - I don't believe LE had a single POI in Maxie's accident. I think some of Maxie's family members assumed Rebecca knew more than what she was telling. Dina in her own accounts, did not trust Rebecca.
Correct. I do not think it is unusual for a mother to not trust the care-giving for her child to another woman, let alone the woman who stands beside the very man who has "betrayed" or injured the mother.

In my opinion, Dina doubted Rebecca's story from the minute she learned of Maxie's accident.
Of course. Part of acceptance of a "disaster" is the initial disbelief. And, RS probably first learned from JS, a man she did not trust. Is there ANY evidence DS even spoke with RZ? And IF she did, was DS told a story by RZ "spoon-fed" to her from JS, a man DS dis not trust?

I believe Dina most likely doubted Jonah too.
I would agree.

It is evident Dina doubted Rebecca when she requested Nina go talk to Rebecca, even beg her.
Did DS ask NR to "go talk with Rebecca" or was there a different agenda and "go talk" was just the short-hand, the explanation, a code for devious intentions?
I am not sure DS sent NR; perhaps, NR went by herself with the understanding she would be meeting DS who would arrive a few minutes later.

Dina did not have knowledge of a possible CPS report when she sent Nina to beg Rebecca. Understandably, Dina was desperate.

Unless there was a prior report indicting JS or RZ, why would DS have knowledge of the CPS report? You are correct, however, there was no report available for THIS particular incident.

I agree the hospital environment was toxic. Understandably, JS and DS were probably experiencing extreme shock. Their son was critically injured. Two parents trying to grasp the reality of what happened to their son and the extent of his injuries. I'm sure doctors questioned JS and DS extensively about Max's accident. JS could only relay what he had been told. DS could only listen to the retelling of JS's version. Dina had only JS's words to go on. I tend to believe any story JS told would not be acceptable to Dina. She did not trust JS or RZ. Dina undoubtedly was filled with despair. I agree it is likely heated exchanges between JS and DS occurred at the hospital. JS defending RZ with CPR comments. DS rehashing the reasons she did not want Maxie left alone with RZ. Despair, shock and anger all coming together. The hospital staff being privy to these exchanges would have noted this in Maxie's file.

Later that night, Luber and Nina arrive in Coronado. Both JS and DS now had someone to provide them emotional support. The next day, according to DS and NR the doctors still had questions. Nina tells of her visit to the mansion during her phone interview. Dina later recounts in her interview with Craig Outhier she asked Nina to talk to RZ. Nina never shares this tidbit in her extensive and lengthy phone interview. Nina's visit to the mansion and her messaging RZ Tuesday night were not made public until her phone interview. Nina's messaging/visit is never shared by SDSO at the press conference, by 15 investigators nor in 5 search warrants. It would almost appear like Nina's visit never happened. It wasn't until the release of RZ's phone records did we learn about Nina's visit Tuesday night. The public would now see a record of NR messaging RZ late that Tuesday night. What had NR messaged RZ? Did her message contain something similar to JS's alleged voicemail? More importantly, what did Nina see during her visit to the mansion? Surely whatever Nina could share with LE would help in their investigation. Much information was provided to the public during the SDSO press conference, but no mention of Nina's visit. 15 investigators, many interviews and not one mention of Nina Romano. AS, DS and JS were all included, but Nina was left out. To date, the details of Nina's visit has only been shared by Nina. Even the media didn't appear to have a clue. The media knew about AS polygraph, but not about Nina's canceled polygraph. Lead Detective Tsuida leaves out Nina's name in her probable cause section of SW 11-164 when detailing only RZ and Adam were at the residence Tuesday night. Lead Det. Tsuida must have known about Nina's visit when she requested her search warrant over a month later on 8-24. In my opinion, Nina Romano was intentionally left out of records LE would release to the public. I tend to believe someone was protecting Nina.

Lash wrote:I agree the hospital environment was toxic. Understandably, JS and DS were probably experiencing extreme shock. Their son was critically injured. Two parents trying to grasp the reality of what happened to their son and the extent of his injuries. I'm sure doctors questioned JS and DS extensively about Max's accident. JS could only relay what he had been told. DS could only listen to the retelling of JS's version. Dina had only JS's words to go on. I tend to believe any story JS told would not be acceptable to Dina. She did not trust JS or RZ. Dina undoubtedly was filled with despair. I agree it is likely heated exchanges between JS and DS occurred at the hospital. JS defending RZ with CPR comments. DS rehashing the reasons she did not want Maxie left alone with RZ. Despair, shock and anger all coming together. The hospital staff being privy to these exchanges would have noted this in Maxie's file.

Later that night, Luber and Nina arrive in Coronado. Both JS and DS now had someone to provide them emotional support. The next day, according to DS and NR the doctors still had questions. Nina tells of her visit to the mansion during her phone interview. Dina later recounts in her interview with Craig Outhier she asked Nina to talk to RZ. Nina never shares this tidbit in her extensive and lengthy phone interview. Nina's visit to the mansion and her messaging RZ Tuesday night were not made public until her phone interview. Nina's messaging/visit is never shared by SDSO at the press conference, by 15 investigators nor in 5 search warrants. It would almost appear like Nina's visit never happened. It wasn't until the release of RZ's phone records did we learn about Nina's visit Tuesday night. The public would now see a record of NR messaging RZ late that Tuesday night. What had NR messaged RZ? Did her message contain something similar to JS's alleged voicemail? More importantly, what did Nina see during her visit to the mansion? Surely whatever Nina could share with LE would help in their investigation. Much information was provided to the public during the SDSO press conference, but no mention of Nina's visit. 15 investigators, many interviews and not one mention of Nina Romano. AS, DS and JS were all included, but Nina was left out. To date, the details of Nina's visit has only been shared by Nina. Even the media didn't appear to have a clue. The media knew about AS polygraph, but not about Nina's canceled polygraph. Lead Detective Tsuida leaves out Nina's name in her probable cause section of SW 11-164 when detailing only RZ and Adam were at the residence Tuesday night. Lead Det. Tsuida must have known about Nina's visit when she requested her search warrant over a month later on 8-24. In my opinion, Nina Romano was intentionally left out of records LE would release to the public. I tend to believe someone was protecting Nina.

Quite a glaring inconsistency Lash.
One that probably did not escape Dina, thus a need for mentioning and providing an explanation for it ex post facto?

But what would influence MSM from giving such little focus to such an important circumstance...

Lash wrote:I agree the hospital environment was toxic. Understandably, JS and DS were probably experiencing extreme shock. Their son was critically injured. Two parents trying to grasp the reality of what happened to their son and the extent of his injuries. I'm sure doctors questioned JS and DS extensively about Max's accident. JS could only relay what he had been told. DS could only listen to the retelling of JS's version. Dina had only JS's words to go on. I tend to believe any story JS told would not be acceptable to Dina. She did not trust JS or RZ. Dina undoubtedly was filled with despair. I agree it is likely heated exchanges between JS and DS occurred at the hospital. JS defending RZ with CPR comments. DS rehashing the reasons she did not want Maxie left alone with RZ. Despair, shock and anger all coming together. The hospital staff being privy to these exchanges would have noted this in Maxie's file.

Snipped and BBM. Great insight in your post, Lash. The most common thing friends and family of accident victims say, over and over, is "How could this have happened? I don't understand." With neither of them present when Max fell, I can see how that conversation between them may have gone in escalating circles-- and the stress was only magnified (for both of them) because of Dina not being able to be located or roused by police for hours. Understandably, she must have arrived in a complete panic to the hospital. I can't imagine that Jonah didn't at least ask Dina "Where have you been? We've all been trying to get a hold of you!"

At this point, for whatever reason, Rebecca was available in the immediate area to them and to docs and police, but either didn't feel comfortable being there, or was actively asked to stay away. A simple call to her cell and I think she would have parked and come inside to answer any questions-- she was so busy ferrying friends and family members between the airport, hospital, and their homes, and trying to help any way she could, that it's my opinion her pattern of behavior indicates she would have come inside Rady to talk with whomever, if asked. With Dina unable to be located for several hours, I'm sure that Rebecca was aware of this, too, and that would have only added to the stress of the whole situation, imo.

I think it's very likely that the request for social work to look into things and file a report happened in the first hours after admission (before the first MRI), with the early realization that Max was unlikely to live. And this included the request to not inform Dina of this. Curiously, only Dina was mentioned (according to her comments at the Coronado City Council), apparently-- not Rebecca or Jonah, or anyone else.

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:I agree the hospital environment was toxic. Understandably, JS and DS were probably experiencing extreme shock. Their son was critically injured. Two parents trying to grasp the reality of what happened to their son and the extent of his injuries. I'm sure doctors questioned JS and DS extensively about Max's accident. JS could only relay what he had been told. DS could only listen to the retelling of JS's version. Dina had only JS's words to go on. I tend to believe any story JS told would not be acceptable to Dina. She did not trust JS or RZ. Dina undoubtedly was filled with despair. I agree it is likely heated exchanges between JS and DS occurred at the hospital. JS defending RZ with CPR comments. DS rehashing the reasons she did not want Maxie left alone with RZ. Despair, shock and anger all coming together. The hospital staff being privy to these exchanges would have noted this in Maxie's file.

Later that night, Luber and Nina arrive in Coronado. Both JS and DS now had someone to provide them emotional support. The next day, according to DS and NR the doctors still had questions. Nina tells of her visit to the mansion during her phone interview. Dina later recounts in her interview with Craig Outhier she asked Nina to talk to RZ. Nina never shares this tidbit in her extensive and lengthy phone interview. Nina's visit to the mansion and her messaging RZ Tuesday night were not made public until her phone interview. Nina's messaging/visit is never shared by SDSO at the press conference, by 15 investigators nor in 5 search warrants. It would almost appear like Nina's visit never happened. It wasn't until the release of RZ's phone records did we learn about Nina's visit Tuesday night. The public would now see a record of NR messaging RZ late that Tuesday night. What had NR messaged RZ? Did her message contain something similar to JS's alleged voicemail? More importantly, what did Nina see during her visit to the mansion? Surely whatever Nina could share with LE would help in their investigation. Much information was provided to the public during the SDSO press conference, but no mention of Nina's visit. 15 investigators, many interviews and not one mention of Nina Romano. AS, DS and JS were all included, but Nina was left out. To date, the details of Nina's visit has only been shared by Nina. Even the media didn't appear to have a clue. The media knew about AS polygraph, but not about Nina's canceled polygraph. Lead Detective Tsuida leaves out Nina's name in her probable cause section of SW 11-164 when detailing only RZ and Adam were at the residence Tuesday night. Lead Det. Tsuida must have known about Nina's visit when she requested her search warrant over a month later on 8-24. In my opinion, Nina Romano was intentionally left out of records LE would release to the public. I tend to believe someone was protecting Nina.

Quite a glaring inconsistency Lash.
One that probably did not escape Dina, thus a need for mentioning and providing an explanation for it ex post facto?

But what would influence MSM from giving such little focus to such an important circumstance...

HUGELY significant omissions/ inconsistancies. Who would protect Nina, and why?

And yet, clearly police knew Nina was (or, claimed to be) there. After all, they collected her DNA, hair samples, fingerprints, and yoga pants (new). And asked her to schedule a polygraph.

Maybe Nina never went to the mansion that night.. They knew Dina had been seen. What better diversion than to come forth and say she, Nina, had been there. Thus they knew the collecting of DNA, hair samples, fingerprints, and yes, yoga pants, would yield nothing. She would even pass the polygraph with flying colors if needed.

BTW outstanding comments Lash, Tamta, KZ!

Lash at 9:38 said:Clipped---
" I'm sure doctors questioned JS and DS extensively about Max's accident. JS could only relay what he had been told. DS could only listen to the retelling of JS's version. Dina had only JS's words to go on. I tend to believe any story JS told would not be acceptable to Dina. She did not trust JS or RZ. Dina undoubtedly was filled with despair."

IF JS was present, he had his own truth of the situation.
IF JS had spoken to RZ or any of the others present, he would be able to evaluate the truth.
What he shared with others did NOT have to be what he knew or was told.
JS could fabricate to attempt to change the events for his own purpose.

RE the erased call JS placed to RZ:
I have speculated as to the nature of this call.
Why erase it? Is it because it could implicate one or more of them?
Was the call to ascertain whether RZ ws still alive?
Was it to instruct someone re the treatment to be administered to RZ?
Was it to instruct re setting a "stage" for suicide?
Did JS not have phone number or want to call NR/DS/AS on their respective phones? (Strange JS would not call the mother of his child to tell her the changing info re their son. And we KNOW she was NOT present at the hospital at the time so she would, supposedly, not been aware of the info.)

Or could it have been to simply ask RZ to unlock the door for one of the "visitors" that night? To say one of them was going to the home to talk with RZ re MS, to retrieve an item (stuffed animal, CD, etc.) for MS? JS called as a pretense to have RZ admit a person to obtain an item for him?

I've been thinking about the timeline and Rebecca's cell phone with a dead battery. I'm sure as much as she was on it, the battery would be low by the time she got home. Wouldn't you think she would have put it on a charger as soon as she got home....around 8 pm, wasn't it? What kept her from doing that, I wonder, otherwise by the time she was found it would have been fully charged, wouldn't it?

junie4justice wrote:I've been thinking about the timeline and Rebecca's cell phone with a dead battery. I'm sure as much as she was on it, the battery would be low by the time she got home. Wouldn't you think she would have put it on a charger as soon as she got home....around 8 pm, wasn't it? What kept her from doing that, I wonder, otherwise by the time she was found it would have been fully charged, wouldn't it?

Hi Junie4justice!

After arriving home at 8pm, Rebecca was texting JS, XZ and Mary. Rebecca talked to her sister Mary who lived in Missouri for 27 minutes. Becky's cellphone records show incoming and outgoing calls with her sister Mary at 8:06, 8:33 and 9:25pm. Along with several text messages with Mary at 9:40, 9:42, 9:44, 9:52 and 9:53pm. The last text message out was at 9:53pm to her sister. Later, Becky would receive a text message in from Nina Romano at 10:41pm. Since Becky was using her phone it is logical to assume this could be the reason Rebecca had not charged her phone when she first returned home. It would be interesting to know where Rebecca normally kept her phone charger. Did she keep it in her bedroom or in the guest room that was also used as an office?

If Rebecca did indeed shower, when did she have time? The phone call at 8:33pm lasted 3 minutes. Becky could have showered between 8:36pm and the next outgoing call to her sister at 9:25pm. Roughly 45 minutes to take a shower. If this is the window of time when she showered, what clothing did Rebecca put on or did she just wrap herself with a towel? Becky once again began communicating with Mary via text at 9:40 until 9:53pm. Did Rebecca shower after the last text message? Maybe this is why Rebecca missed Nina's visit because she was in the shower. Becky could have been interrupted by Nina's alleged 10:00pm visit or according to witnesses the 10:20pm siting of Dina at the mansion?

There is a discrepancy in when Nina texted Rebecca. Either 9:41pm or 10:41pm. If the latter, was Nina's visit closer to 11:00pm? Just 40 minutes after Dina was allegedly seen at the mansion. If Rebecca received unexpected visitors, maybe this is the reason she never charged her phone?

Eileen_Dover wrote:Maybe Nina never went to the mansion that night.. They knew Dina had been seen. What better diversion than to come forth and say she, Nina, had been there. Thus they knew the collecting of DNA, hair samples, fingerprints, and yes, yoga pants, would yield nothing. She would even pass the polygraph with flying colors if needed.

BTW outstanding comments Lash, Tamta, KZ!

Brilliant comment!

Eileen_Dover wrote:Maybe Nina never went to the mansion that night.. They knew Dina had been seen. What better diversion than to come forth and say she, Nina, had been there. Thus they knew the collecting of DNA, hair samples, fingerprints, and yes, yoga pants, would yield nothing. She would even pass the polygraph with flying colors if needed.

BTW outstanding comments Lash, Tamta, KZ!

Very interesting idea.........might explain why Nina insisted that it only took her 5 minutes to walk from G Ave to Spreckels...........not likely unless she was hauling ass.

Lash: re shower time

Wasn't Rebecca's hair dry at the time of her death?
With my hair, if I don't blow dry it, it does things I don't want it to do--- curls, twists, flies away, etc. Trying to recall the reports where it said her hair was clean, well cared for, etc..

If she had showered, all all reports indicate that, and she had washed her hair, she would probably have dried the hair. And this would have to be worked into the time line.

Could NR and DS have switched phones with each other?

IIRC, NR gave her telephone interview with the media after the telephone logs of Rebecca had been released. NR, oddly, did not have the correct time of the call to Rebecca. Is this because, while the call may have been on NR' cell phone, it was DS who actually placed the call and was in the vicinity of the residence as the biker reported?

Lash wrote:

junie4justice wrote:I've been thinking about the timeline and Rebecca's cell phone with a dead battery. I'm sure as much as she was on it, the battery would be low by the time she got home. Wouldn't you think she would have put it on a charger as soon as she got home....around 8 pm, wasn't it? What kept her from doing that, I wonder, otherwise by the time she was found it would have been fully charged, wouldn't it?

Hi Junie4justice!

After arriving home at 8pm, Rebecca was texting JS, XZ and Mary. Rebecca talked to her sister Mary who lived in Missouri for 27 minutes. Becky's cellphone records show incoming and outgoing calls with her sister Mary at 8:06, 8:33 and 9:25pm. Along with several text messages with Mary at 9:40, 9:42, 9:44, 9:52 and 9:53pm. The last text message out was at 9:53pm to her sister. Later, Becky would receive a text message in from Nina Romano at 10:41pm. Since Becky was using her phone it is logical to assume this could be the reason Rebecca had not charged her phone when she first returned home. It would be interesting to know where Rebecca normally kept her phone charger. Did she keep it in her bedroom or in the guest room that was also used as an office?

If Rebecca did indeed shower, when did she have time? The phone call at 8:33pm lasted 3 minutes. Becky could have showered between 8:36pm and the next outgoing call to her sister at 9:25pm. Roughly 45 minutes to take a shower. If this is the window of time when she showered, what clothing did Rebecca put on or did she just wrap herself with a towel? Becky once again began communicating with Mary via text at 9:40 until 9:53pm. Did Rebecca shower after the last text message? Maybe this is why Rebecca missed Nina's visit because she was in the shower. Becky could have been interrupted by Nina's alleged 10:00pm visit or according to witnesses the 10:20pm siting of Dina at the mansion?

There is a discrepancy in when Nina texted Rebecca. Either 9:41pm or 10:41pm. If the latter, was Nina's visit closer to 11:00pm? Just 40 minutes after Dina was allegedly seen at the mansion. If Rebecca received unexpected visitors, maybe this is the reason she never charged her phone?

Thank you for listing those times. I forgot there was that much activity on the cell. I rarely use my cell, but one of my friends uses hers a lot and can still receive calls while charging, and uses the speaker phone option to converse. I do remember that 1 hour time difference, now that you mention it.

So, the unexpected visitors must have showed up and distracted her from charging phone. I just was thinking maybe that was where we could actually place her TOD.

IMO, the whole purpose for leaving Rebecca's naked body laying in the sun for 13+ hours was to "skew" the TOD......for the purpose of fitting the "suicide" theory.

Inparadise wrote:IMO, the whole purpose for leaving Rebecca's naked body laying in the sun for 13+ hours was to "skew" the TOD......for the purpose of fitting the "suicide" theory.

ITA, that's why I was trying to use the dead battery as a possible starting point. Guess I can't explain it exactly. To me, it was obvious the reason for the ME to not be able to be more accurate.

junie4justice wrote:

Inparadise wrote:IMO, the whole purpose for leaving Rebecca's naked body laying in the sun for 13+ hours was to "skew" the TOD......for the purpose of fitting the "suicide" theory.

ITA, that's why I was trying to use the dead battery as a possible starting point. Guess I can't explain it exactly. To me, it was obvious the reason for the ME to not be able to be more accurate.

And for that reason, I would love to see the land line phone records/cell phone calls/e-mails/texting between Gore, the DA, Phingst/Jonah/and the ME for 7/13/2011.............

Tamta wrote:Quite a glaring inconsistency Lash.
One that probably did not escape Dina, thus a need for mentioning and providing an explanation for it ex post facto?

But what would influence MSM from giving such little focus to such an important circumstance...

BBM - A lack of LE leaks. I tend to believe the media was clueless about Nina's visit. However, one reporter knew the salacious detail of porn being found on a computer and Adam had submitted to a polygraph. Gore would not commit to answering either of these questions. Gore bounced the porn question to Bremner and would not acknowledge Adam was indeed the person who submitted to a polygraph. How did the reporter even know about the porn and the polygraph? In my opinion, these two details were leaked to the media to further Gore's agenda. The porn was an attempt to embarrass Rebecca, the polygraph was an attempt to clear Adam. Leaking Nina's visit would not fit Gore's theory. Nina's visit would ONLY cast doubt on SDSO's investigative conclusion.