Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

by carlakay Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:19 am

LottieM wrote:Freckles....TM wasn't out there playing in the rain as you describe the fun you and your children had doing such. Just sayin'.

I know human beings generally feel sorry for the dead person no matter what. And I do feel for Travon and his family! But there are lessons to be learned from this mess....1) don't be an overzealous neighborhood watch person and 2) if you're not up to anything then there is no need to start a fight over some (&^&(& cracker following you because well...for all Travon knew this (&^)&& cracker was not following him and was maybe new to the neighborhood and lost or something. 3) 2 people acting too big for their britches are now ruined. One is dead, the other is living in ruin.

PS...thank you auman58!

Hi LottieM..not trying to be disrespectful but really would like to understand why it is that you believe TM started the physical altercation with GZ that night. This is a point of contention with me as almost everyone I have spoken to that believes this was self defense claims the same thing..but we have zero proof that is the case.
What we do have is the initial statements of both GZ and TM"S friend Jeantell..or whatev her name is.. and fact is they both claimed the same words were spoken by TM at the time he and GZ met face to face..albeit their versions vary slightly..they both said TM asked "Why are you following me?" These two peoples statements are the most important to me because there was absolutely no way either party knew what the other had told about what was said that night. Nonetheless Jeantell was only an ear witness..she could not see who was the first to make this a physical fight.. NOBODY did but GZ and I frankly can not understand the mentality behind those of you who have chosen to just believe this mans version without any substantial proof at all that it is a fact TM started this fight.

by Freckles Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:29 am

Carla-
Rachael Jeantel went by the nickname of Di-di.
She said she had chosen the nick of Di-di for Diamond Lil or something like that.

GZ has spun many variations and some outright lies.
He has the most to lose at this point and the spinning of fabrications underscores this, IMO. What is interesting is the lack of sophistication of the falsehood. I have seen children spin better fibs. This tells me while he is not believable, he is accustomed to spinning the lies and NOT being held accountable; if he had been held accountable for prior lies, he would have either NOT lied OR he would have had more sophistication is his falsehoods.

Because he is the one with most at stake here, because he is the one standing accused, his words should be scrutinized. Nothing wrong and everything correct in examining is words. Since he probably won't be taking the stand, it is only right to evaluate the words he HAS used; it is only proper to evaluate the words of others when they speak of GZ and what he purportedly told them; and it is perfectly correct to examine the words of the witnesses as imprecise as that may be.

I keep looking at the marked evidence where items were located and identified by Sanford PD. These items were located "up" the walkway between Trayvon's body and the residence he was visiting. Couple this with the witnesses stating they had heard TWO people running TOWARD the T. Now, IF this is true, the attack did NOT happen at the T. Trayvon was nearer the residence and it appears was chased toward the T. Items were dropped along the way and way before the T. This means he was pursued. IF Trayvon was pursued, was this by one person or more than one? (I mention the possibility of more than one due to the DNA recovered from the gun as NOT belonging to either the victim or the suspect but to a third party. IIRC, that came from the trigger of the gun.)

Could GZ or another person have approached Trayvon from BETWEEN the buildings and chased him down toward the T? GZ tells NEN he is on the "cut thru" between the buildings. What evidence is there he was on the sidewalk leading to his own home?

What of the reports of the witnesses of seeing TWO persons with TWO flashlights BEFORE the shot was fired?

Of particular problem is GZ sposedly leaving his truck when he was afraid;
of GZ walking toward the T to sposedly find an addy... specially when GZ states there were NO addys BEHIND the homes;
of GZ walking toward HIS own residence to find an addy... as if GZ did NOT know his own address??? Why did he need to walk to the back street to his own home to try to locate an address that would NOT be relevant to the house a full block away?

This is what began my suspensions GZ was telling falsehoods.

Then we move to the unaccounted voices and conversations with the vehicle. And the PD officer calling in for registered names of the vehicles parked down from the club house and the car coming back registered to SZ. (Why would SHE have a car parked a full BLOCK away from her residence? ) And GZ stating he drove a car and then he stated he had driven his truck. Which is it?

GZ has the most to lose and IMO that accounts for his lies.

by Freckles Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:50 am

@4:50
GZ states he went to his doctor and his psychologist.
This is the first I have heard GZ was seeing a shrink PRIOR to the shooting. Have to wonder why. Were the meds he was taking related to his counseling?

@5:50
GZ said he asked the first officer (Smith or Serino?) if GZ could call his wife; he was told no.
GZ said an eye-witness was kind enough to call for him.
Huh? The eye-witness called BEFORE the PR arrived IIRC.

@7.00
GZ discusses the head injuries; said he was told it was up to him; GZ said he was told he would have to pay for it;

@9:50
GZ mentions his father is retired Army;

@14:15
GZ tells investigator he had written a letter praising her for assistance with NW; wants to know if the letter was placed in her files;

@15:00
LE arrives to guestion GZ and to admin the lie detector test;
LE asks GZ if he takes any meds;
GZ states he take Adderal and Librium;
LE asks to see back of GZ' head; LE says it doesn't look too bad.
LE asks if GZ has ever taken a lie detector test; GZ says no and asks if it is voice activated;

@25:23
GZ asks if he may drink water as he is having trouble breathing out his nose;
LE asks GZ if the nose is broken; GZ states it is;

The telling of the events:
@25:40
GZ states he saw the victim and knew he did not live there;
GZ states victim "kept staring" around him, behind, and at GZ; this aroused GZ's suspicions;
GZ drove PAST him and went to park at the clubhouse;

@26:49
GZ states Victim walked past his CAR;
GZ states he lost visual contact with victim;
GZ states the NEN officer asked GZ if he "could get to someplace" where he could see where victim was headed;
GZ states he pulled out and drove adjacent to the clubhouse;

@27:10
GZ states he was unfamiliar with the name of the street and told NEN this; states NEN needed to know;
GZ states it was a "side street" that cuts thru; actually, it is the MAIN street entering the housing complex;

@27:46
GZ states at THIS time victim walked around his CAR *see @26:49
***Makes no sense for victim to RETURN just to circle the CAR.
GZ states the NEN wanted to know what street and exact addy GZ was at;

@28:50
GZ states he got out of his car to find a street name and addy; GZ says NO street sign;
GZ said big pick-up truck in front of the house in front of him; witness confirmed hubby parked his truck there;
GZ states he saw victim walk thru the cut thru and make a right behind other houses;
GZ states he knew if he went straight and did not cut thru he would be on the street he lived, Retreat View Circle ?

GZ states he knew if he went to his street and got his addy from there he could give them the addy for the other street. *Does GZ NOT know his own addy so he has to walk to his house to get it???

@29:32
GZ said, while on his home street, victim is gone; NEN asked if GZ still wanted a PD officer; GZ said yes;

@29:56
GZ tells NEN to have officer meet him at the clubhouse; GZ gave a description of HIS CAR;
GZ started back to his CAR;

@30:12
GZ states he is walking back to his car when the victim "appeared out of nowhere" ;
GZ had hung up with NEN; they told him they had an officer in route;
GZ is repeating he had told NEN to have officer meet GZ at his CAR;
GZ put his phone away; about 1/2 way to his car victim called out, "You got a problem?"
GZ was looking for his phone to call PD when victim punched him in the nose;
GZ said he started calling out for help;
GZ states victim started bashing his head into the concrete;
***Notice: GZ does NOT mention falling or a tussle

@31:34
GZ says victim shoved his head into the concrete "several times";
GZ really started screaming for help;
GZ says victim covered his nose with one hand and the mouth with the other;
*** See above: IF victim had FIRST punched GZ in the nose PRIOR to covering the nose and the mouth, WHY isn't there blood evidence on the victim?

GZ said he was suffocating; GZ kind of shifted and squirmed his way out .. not out of under him but....
****Why no neck injuries IF GZ's head was hit on the edge of the sidewalk?
Why no grass or dirt debris on the back of GZ' head IF he had shifted to the wet grassy area?
Even jacket is "pristine."

@ 32:30
GZ said when he shifted, the jacket came up exposing is gun;
GZ said victim sat up, looked, and said, " You are going to die tonight, m---f----."
GZ said victim took one hand off his mouth, slid it down his chest and GZ pinched his arm;
GZ grabbed his gun and aimed it at victim and fired one shot.

@33:04
GZ said victim kind of sat back and said, "You got me..."
GZ said he thot victim had heard the shot and was giving up;
GZ pushed him off and somehow ended up on top of the victim straddling him;
GZ said victim was face down;
GZ said he felt the victim had something in his hands when he was hitting GZ in the face so GZ thot the victim had a weapon so he grabbed the victim's hands and pushed them away from his body ;
GZ then told the victim to stop, don't move;

http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/raw-911-call-zimmerman-made-to-sanford-police/vGZq9/

by carlakay Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:57 am

Freckles here is what I believe went down..GZ spotted TM just as he walked thru the entrance to the community..TM stopped near the mailbox area because there was an overhang and the rain was coming down harder..TM spots GZ eyeballing him and moves along towards the T. BOTH Gz and Didi state TM ran so I believe this to be when GZ starts following IN HIS TRUCK.GZ loses sight of him as TM runs BEHIND the housing units. GZ exits his truck and runs IN FRONT OF these same houses. There is a pass thru between these rows of houses and I believe it was this path GZ took..I also believe he drew his gun out at this point because it was so dark and he truly believed he was pursuing a criminal. When he came out of this passthru is when TM told Didi.."He's back." and the physical confrontation begin. The state failed to prove their case because nobody investigated it properly and the dumbasses never applied simple logic.I truly believe GZ did not set out to murder anybody..his intent was to stop a criminal from committing a crime in his neighborhood and TM had absolutely no clue that the creepy ass cracker that was following him was neighborhood watch..for all he knew his life was in danger. This is why it pisses me off when those who are PRO Zimmerman state he had every right to defend himself against someone he had no clue about..neither did TM and damnit TM was a minor..it is kinda friggin important!
also I dunno bout another person being involved..but hell anythings possible at this point.

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:34 pm

Carlakay,

The evidence shows that Zimmerman profiled Trayvon as a criminal, that he initiated the pursuit, continued the pursuit, and precipitated the events which culminated in Trayvon's death.

The fact that there was a rash of burglaries in the community that were perpetrated mostly by young black males does not justify Zimmerman's actions. Zimmerman was not a police officer nor he had the authority to follow someone that in his mind looked suspicious, as a neighborhood watchman, his only job was to alert the police.

In my opinion (as Serino and an FBI agent assigned to the case stated on their reports), Zimmerman had "a hero complex", he wanted to prove himself by making a citizen's arrest, he was determined to thwart any futures attempts against "his community", where Trayvon (according to his perception) did not belong. In spite of the fact that Trayvon had the legal right to be where Zimmerman first "spotted" him, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Zimmerman's actions were that of a vigilante, not the actions of a "concerned citizen."

"Neighbor Frank Taaffe defended Zimmerman, but admitted: “I think he had fed-up issues. He was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore." - Forbes

"Frank Taaffe pointed out the circumstances that he believes led his 28-year-old neighbor to react the way he did on the night of Feb. 26: Eight burglaries within 15 months, most done by young black males, he said.

"The stage was already set. It was a perfect storm,” Taaffe said." - NBC

Zimmerman knew the facts were stacked against him after he shot and killed Trayvon. He followed Trayvon into the common backyard of the townhouses, an area that can only be accessed by foot, the area where a violent confrontation ensued and Trayvon ended up dead. How was he going to explain the fatal shooting of a young black male who he found suspicious but was not commiting a felony or was in the process of commiting a felony? He had to claim self defense, and in order to do that, he had to claim that Trayvon was the aggressor, that he attacked him first, and he was in fear for his life.

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:06 pm

Zimmerman version(s) of the events surrounding the shooting is plagued by inconsistencies, his lawyer claims that "the inconsistencies are minor", but there are major issues with Zimmerman's self defense theory.

by Freckles Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:25 pm

Carla;
I would agree with you re the events timeline except for the mention of the truck; repeatedly GZ says CAR. I would like to know IF he ever gave a description of the vehicle. It is only later TZ calls it his TRUCK.

SZ' car WAS called in for registration verification by an officer collecting evidence at the scene to determine IF it might have belonged to the victim or someone out of the area. It was SZ' car.
WHY would she park her car a block from the house when she sposedly was NOT at home at the time of the incident????

Aless-
Hero complex. That would fulfill the need of the situation.
I, too, agree GZ had an agenda for that night.
He was prowling for trouble and to prove himself.
The question I have: Was Taffee and or SZ to see GZ "make his mark"? IMO, GZ needed his audience..

IMO, much as a dog will spray his territory to mark it, GZ was doing the same.
He was "claiming" his turf.

BTW, I recall GZ' postings to his social media.
This was no choir boy. Even there he was "looking" for that car full of outsiders...

by carlakay Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:24 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Carlakay,

The evidence shows that Zimmerman profiled Trayvon as a criminal, that he initiated the pursuit, continued the pursuit, and precipitated the events which culminated in Trayvon's death.

The fact that there was a rash of burglaries in the community that were perpetrated mostly by young black males does not justify Zimmerman's actions. Zimmerman was not a police officer nor he had the authority to follow someone that in his mind looked suspicious, as a neighborhood watchman, his only job was to alert the police.

In my opinion (as Serino and an FBI agent assigned to the case stated on their reports), Zimmerman had "a hero complex", he wanted to prove himself by making a citizen's arrest, he was determined to thwart any futures attempts against "his community", where Trayvon (according to his perception) did not belong. In spite of the fact that Trayvon had the legal right to be where Zimmerman first "spotted" him, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Zimmerman's actions were that of a vigilante, not the actions of a "concerned citizen."

"Neighbor Frank Taaffe defended Zimmerman, but admitted: “I think he had fed-up issues. He was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore." - Forbes

"Frank Taaffe pointed out the circumstances that he believes led his 28-year-old neighbor to react the way he did on the night of Feb. 26: Eight burglaries within 15 months, most done by young black males, he said.

"The stage was already set. It was a perfect storm,” Taaffe said." - NBC

Zimmerman knew the facts were stacked against him after he shot and killed Trayvon. He followed Trayvon into the common backyard of the townhouses, an area that can only be accessed by foot, the area where a violent confrontation ensued and Trayvon ended up dead. How was he going to explain the fatal shooting of a young black male who he found suspicious but was not commiting a felony or was in the process of commiting a felony? He had to claim self defense, and in order to do that, he had to claim that Trayvon was the aggressor, that he attacked him first, and he was in fear for his life.

hun your preaching to the choir here..I just dont believe GZ left his home that night or got out of truck and followed TM with the intent to kill him and despite the fact I finally know why the state filed the charge they did I do not feel it is enough for the jury to convict him.
Unlike the state,I believe GZ had his gun out BEFORE confronting TM..it is only logical to me..regardless wether he took the same path as TM down the backside of that row of houses (as both sides seem to contend) or if he ran in front of those row of houses and went down the narrow cut thru (as I assume)..ANY person who had a gun and believed they were in pursuit of a criminal would have their gun in hand before following into a poorly visible area.

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:30 pm

"Taaffe sounded chagrined when he noted that the complex is now majority-minority. Census figures show Retreat at Twin Lakes is 49 percent white, non-Hispanic, 23 percent Hispanic, 20 percent African-American and 5 percent Asian.

He suspects Zimmerman got tired of thugs “and reached his breaking point,” Taaffe said. “But why was he carrying a gun? Why not carry pepper spray or a Taser? That’s bizarre-o.”
-Miami Herald

by carlakay Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:31 pm

Freckles wrote:Carla;
I would agree with you re the events timeline except for the mention of the truck; repeatedly GZ says CAR. I would like to know IF he ever gave a description of the vehicle. It is only later TZ calls it his TRUCK.

SZ' car WAS called in for registration verification by an officer collecting evidence at the scene to determine IF it might have belonged to the victim or someone out of the area. It was SZ' car.
WHY would she park her car a block from the house when she sposedly was NOT at home at the time of the incident????

Aless-
Hero complex. That would fulfill the need of the situation.
I, too, agree GZ had an agenda for that night.
He was prowling for trouble and to prove himself.
The question I have: Was Taffee and or SZ to see GZ "make his mark"? IMO, GZ needed his audience..

see the whole truck..car inconsistancy dont bother me one bit and here is why..dunno if its even a factor but I am from the south and refer to ALL my vehicles as cars..we own a truck.. an suv and a cadillac. as an example..When about to go somewhere I always ask my husband..which car are we taking? Kinda stupid question aint it considering we really only have one car.
another thing in Texas when I grew up..ALL pops were referred to as COKE..didnt matter if it was a sprite..Dr. pepper or Pepsi..we called em COKE

IMO, much as a dog will spray his territory to mark it, GZ was doing the same.
He was "claiming" his turf.

BTW, I recall GZ' postings to his social media.
This was no choir boy. Even there he was "looking" for that car full of outsiders...

by carlakay Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:33 pm

I dunno wth happened above..lol

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:45 pm

Carlakay,

I don't believe that Zimmerman's intent was to kill Trayvon, I think his intentions were to detain him. He ended up killing Trayvon because he resisted and fought for his life.

However, in a February 29 interview, Serino expresses some doubt about Zimmerman's account, noting that many questions remain about the incident.
"The court of public opinion is going to beat up on you a lot," Serino said. "A lot of people don't think that your injuries are consistent with getting into a life-threatening type thing."

Martin, Serino said, "has no criminal record whatsoever. Good kid. Mild-mannered kid."

In his possession, Serino said, "we found a can of iced tea and a bag of Skittles and about $40 in cash. Not a goon."

He tells Zimmerman he has received an anonymous phone call "from somebody who gave a different version of events ... more along the lines that you tried to detain him," and recounting an argument prior to the shooting.
-CNN

by carlakay Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:12 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Carlakay,

I don't believe that Zimmerman's intent was to kill Trayvon, I think his intentions were to detain him. He ended up killing Trayvon because he resisted and fought for his life.

However, in a February 29 interview, Serino expresses some doubt about Zimmerman's account, noting that many questions remain about the incident.
"The court of public opinion is going to beat up on you a lot," Serino said. "A lot of people don't think that your injuries are consistent with getting into a life-threatening type thing."

Martin, Serino said, "has no criminal record whatsoever. Good kid. Mild-mannered kid."

In his possession, Serino said, "we found a can of iced tea and a bag of Skittles and about $40 in cash. Not a goon."

He tells Zimmerman he has received an anonymous phone call "from somebody who gave a different version of events ... more along the lines that you tried to detain him," and recounting an argument prior to the shooting.
-CNN

I think we are very close to being on the same page.

and Freckles what i had attempted to post above that never showed was I dont see the car vs truck inconsistancy as being all that huge. I dunno if it's even relevent but I was raised in Texas but have lived in Ohio since I was 18..whenever we are leaving the house I always ask my husband..which car are we taking? We own three vehicles..a pick up truck..an SUV and a car and my asking that question every single time drives my Ohioan husband insane..lol

by carlakay Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:17 pm

I wouldnt be suprised if it ever came out FT or SZ was with GZ that night but unlike most I believe DiDi's account of TM's last words and she never said he spoke of more than one person following him..

by Freckles Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:53 pm

Aless said:

" ... He tells Zimmerman he has received an anonymous phone call "from somebody who gave a different version of events ... more along the lines that you tried to detain him," and recounting an argument prior to the shooting.
-CNN..."

I had not thot of that "justification""... Wow. That would certainly have been much more plausible for GZ to state he was trying to detain Trayvon and things blew out of control... But he never said that. Gosh, sometimes I think GZ is dumb. Really dumb. Not just for the stupid killing but for the lack of CYA when we all know he spins flaky lies.

by Freckles Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:57 pm

carlakay wrote:I wouldnt be suprised if it ever came out FT or SZ was with GZ that night but unlike most I believe DiDi's account of TM's last words and she never said he spoke of more than one person following him..

Ummm. I would agree Di Di pandered to no one and did not appear to have an agenda.
She did not want to be there in court; she did not trust the system; she was uncomfortable around "autority" figures and adults. Still, she gave respect to her mother and to Trayvon's mother. Almost like she realizes this trial doesn't mean a darn thing because her friend, Trayvon, will still be dead. And that is not justice in her eyes.
IMO, she speaks the truth.

Di Di made no mention of more than one person before the call abruptly ended.
Speculation ??? Maybe Trayvon himself was only aware of one person "following" him... dunno.
Something to think on...

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:29 pm

Freckles wrote:Aless said:

" ... He tells Zimmerman he has received an anonymous phone call "from somebody who gave a different version of events ... more along the lines that you tried to detain him," and recounting an argument prior to the shooting.
-CNN..."

I had not thot of that "justification""... Wow. That would certainly have been much more plausible for GZ to state he was trying to detain Trayvon and things blew out of control... But he never said that. Gosh, sometimes I think GZ is dumb. Really dumb. Not just for the stupid killing but for the lack of CYA when we all know he spins flaky lies.

I agree. If Zimmerman was trying to detain Trayvon, he will never admit to doing that, it will blow apart his theories of self defense.

by carlakay Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:38 pm

Freckles I forgot to say I would of liked for the unknown print on the gun to be compared with those of the police officer that took GZ's gun. Remember he testified to not having used extra precautions due to the fact there was no time..erm didn't bother to explain that very odd explanation either and nobody bothered to ask..

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:41 pm

Maternal instinct may put bullet through heart of Martin case

Jul. 07, 2013 @ 05:05 PM
By Kathleen Parker, Guest Columnist

http://www.heraldsun.com/opinion/x177809024/Maternal-instinct-may-put-bullet-through-heart-of-Martin-case

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:04 pm

George Zimmerman trial jurors: A closer look

~Snipped~

___

B-51 is retired, not married and doesn't have kids. She has lived in Seminole County for nine years. She has worked in real estate and run a call center where she said she had experience resolving conflicts. When asked if Zimmerman did something wrong by following Martin instead of waiting for police, she said: "Yeah, I guess he did do something wrong."

___

B-29 recently moved to central Florida from Chicago. She enjoys watching the "Real Housewives" on television and works as a nurse on an Alzheimer's section of a nursing home. She said she hadn't paid much attention to the shooting. She said she has been arrested, but her case was disposed of. It's not clear why she was arrested or exactly what happened to her case, though she said she was treated fairly. She is married and has several children. A prosecutor described her as "black or Hispanic" during jury selection.

___

B-76 is a white woman who has lived in central Florida for 18 years. She manages rental properties with her husband of 30 years. She has two adult children, including one who is an attorney. She is involved with rescuing animals in her free time. During jury selection, she said she had been the victim of a nonviolent crime. "Everyone deserves a fair trial," she said.

___

B-37 is a white woman who volunteers rescuing animals. She is married to an attorney and has two adult children. She said she and her husband used to have concealed weapons permits. During the last round of questioning, she said she had an issue with the type of weapons people are allowed to carry. She also thought weapons' training was inadequate for people seeking permits. "It should become harder," she said.

___

E-6 is a white woman who is married and has two children. She has worked in financial services and has lived in Seminole County for two years. She is active in her church and involved with her children's school. During jury selection, she said she didn't know the facts of the case well.

___

E-40 is a white woman who works as a safety officer and recently moved to Seminole County from Iowa. She describes herself as a football fan. During jury selection, she said she had been the victim of a nonviolent crime.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/22671010/george-zimmerman-trial-jurors-a-closer-look?clienttype=mobile

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:29 pm

Analysis: George Zimmerman Probably Won't Be Convicted of Murder or Manslaughter -- Here's Why

ANALYSIS by DAN ABRAMS

July 7, 2013

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-convicted-murder-manslaughter/story?id=19598422

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:26 pm

Zimmerman Case Has Race as a Backdrop, but You Won’t Hear It in Court

By LIZETTE ALVAREZ
Published: July 7, 2013

SANFORD, Fla. — From the very beginning, there was no more powerful theme in the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin than the issue of race. But in the courtroom where George Zimmerman is on trial for second-degree murder, race lingers awkwardly on the sidelines, scarcely mentioned but impossible to ignore.

~Snipped~

Had Mr. Martin shot and killed Mr. Zimmerman under similar circumstances, black leaders say, the case would have barreled down a different path: Mr. Martin would have been quickly arrested by the Sanford Police Department and charged in the killing, without the benefit of the doubt.

~Snipped~

Yet inside a Seminole County courtroom, with the prosecution’s case against Mr. Zimmerman now over, race only occasionally punctuated the proceedings. The judge made it clear that statements about race would be sharply limited and the term “racial profiling” not allowed. What is more, overtly bringing up race might not have helped the prosecution.

“There is no question that race is the 800-pound gorilla in this trial,” said Ed Shohat, a Miami lawyer who is also a member of the Miami-Dade County Community Relations Board. “But if you overplay that card either way, you lose with the jury. You have to let the jury come to its own conclusion.”

Read more:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/08/us/zimmerman-case-has-race-as-a-backdrop-but-you-wont-hear-it-in-court.html?_r=0

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:35 pm

Zimmerman defense witnesses to testify this week

Yamiche Alcindor, USA TODAY 10:56 p.m. EDT July 7, 2013

This is the week that George Zimmerman's lawyers hope to convince a jury that Trayvon Martin was the aggressor and Zimmerman shot him in self-defense.

SANFORD, Fla. — Lawyers for George Zimmerman will spend this week trying to convince a jury of his innocence.

~Snipped~

O'Mara expects his case to last a few days and says he may re-call some of the state's 38 witnesses to testify further. So far, the defense has called two witnesses, both relatives of Zimmerman's.

O'Mara said Friday that he didn't know whether his client would take the stand.

"I said I would have to convince myself first that the state has proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt before I decide exactly how to handle that," O'Mara said. "I'm still considering that. We are going to start presenting our witnesses and we'll see if that includes George."

This week, O'Mara may call to the stand Robert Zimmerman, George Zimmerman's older brother, who has been an outspoken supporter and spokesman for his family.

Potential witnesses also include John Good, who lived near the shooting scene and testified earlier that Trayvon was striking Zimmerman while straddling him moments before the teen was shot.

Read more;

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/07/zimmerman-defense/2497533/

by LottieM Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:43 pm

carlakay wrote:
Hi LottieM..not trying to be disrespectful but really would like to understand why it is that you believe TM started the physical altercation with GZ that night. This is a point of contention with me as almost everyone I have spoken to that believes this was self defense claims the same thing..but we have zero proof that is the case.
What we do have is the initial statements of both GZ and TM"S friend Jeantell..or whatev her name is.. and fact is they both claimed the same words were spoken by TM at the time he and GZ met face to face..albeit their versions vary slightly..they both said TM asked "Why are you following me?" These two peoples statements are the most important to me because there was absolutely no way either party knew what the other had told about what was said that night. Nonetheless Jeantell was only an ear witness..she could not see who was the first to make this a physical fight.. NOBODY did but GZ and I frankly can not understand the mentality behind those of you who have chosen to just believe this mans version without any substantial proof at all that it is a fact TM started this fight.

HI carlakay. I don't take offense to anyone questioning my opinions. I don't post here like I used to, but the reason I love this board is because we can all say our piece without getting testy over differing opinions.

When this incident first happened, I didn't know what to believe. But the one thing that upset me was the way it became a race issue right away to the point that threats were made by the black communities including the Black Panthers etc. I thought that was jumping to judgement. They didn't wait to hear any facts. A supposed Cracker killed a young black man/boy and that was reason enough to get angry...well, more than angry actually since 'the wrong' Zimmerman household was inadvertently attacked in an effort to get even with Z...but moving on....they didn't even know this man wasn't a cracker! And some people who called in to the news channels to say how awful it was that this young black boy was killed while just innocently walking in the rain with his skittles and tea thought TM was 14 years old! I'm just putting this out to show that TM's supporters jumped to judgement pronto. I don't approve of rush to judgement on either side. If we are to serve justice then we have to weigh the facts. I think I've looked at them carefully and considered the possibilities from all angles.

So with that preface in mind, I'll answer your question. I believe TM started the physical altercation because there are no marks on TM from being hit by anyone. And Z is a wuss! He screamed like a baby as soon as he started getting hit....and I'd bet he couldn't beat his way out of a paper bag. But mostly, it's because there were no marks on TM except the gun shot wound....unless you count the abrasions on his left hand that likely were caused by punching Z in the face.

And speaking of punching Z...I don't believe he was hit as many times as he said. There is no evidence to show that. But I do think Z is such a wuss and knew he was wuss, he believed the altercation to be worse than it probably was.

I'll say this too....I'm a gun advocate. I believe in Permit to Carry as well. But I do not think it's a good idea to pack heat to go to Target for groceries if you are a loose cannon like Z IMO is. And I will say that I don't think Z's first reaction upon realizing -as he said- that TM saw his gun and -as he said- thought TM was making a go for it should have been to pull the trigger. He could have wacked him in the head with it or just threatened him first. AT any rate, You should never shoot a gun out of REaction like Z did...it should only be deliberate action carefully thought out as the last resort. I'm sure Z thought his life was over if he didn't shoot FAST....but that's because he's a wuss. TM made the mistake of thinking Z was a bad ass. Perfect storm.

I think this is going to be tough for the jury. It is self defense imo taking into consideration that Z is a wuss and thought his life was in more danger than it probably was. But he had no real way of knowing what TM might do to him if he passed out. I could argue that there were other ways he could have handled this. But it is what Z thought that is the issue and I think wuss Z thought he was going to die.

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:22 am

Lottie--
I am a stronger supporter of NRA and DO believe everyone (within reason) should carry. Keeps people extra polite. Had Trayvon been of age and mind and been carrying that night, I am sure HE would be on trial and not GZ. However, that is all speculation.

You state GZ is a wuss and would not have initiated an attack against Trayvon because he IS a wuss. I would agree GZ is a wuss; he is also a whiner and a bully with a track record of BEATING UP women. If he could hit a female, kick a dog in the gut, attempt to take out ABC officers then I think he has just graduated in his bullying...

IMO, GZ had a score to settle, a bone to pick, manhood to prove... and Trayvon "conveniently" walked by. Did he just discover he really did not graduate but simply walked a stage to get an empty diploma?
Did he just discover, no matter what degree he might get, he would NEVER be hired due to his past records? Dunno but I think it is valid for consideration.

by Alessandra_Deux Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:47 am

Zimmerman is not a "WUSS", "appearances can be deceiving", he has a history of violence.

In 2005 he was arrested and charged for resisting an officer and for assaulting an officer, both of this charges are considered third degree felonies, the charges were downgraded to a misdemeanor and he was ordered to enter an anger management program. The same year his exfiance, Veronica Souza, filed a petition for a restraining order against him alleging domestic violence, in retailiation, Zimmerman filed a petition for a restraining order against her, both petitions were granted.

George Zimmerman's MySpace Disparages Mexicans, Mentions 2005 Criminal Charges

Photos on Zimmerman's MySpace page show Zimmerman, who calls himself "Joe G.," with groups of friends. In his biographical blurb, he discusses things he doesn't miss about his former home in Manassas, Virginia:

"I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book. Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!”

In an August 24, 2005 blog post, he boasts about his relief about the proceedings in a criminal case.

"Im still free! The ex hoe tried her hardest, but the judge saw through it! Big Mike, reppin the Dverse security makin me look a million bucks, broke her down! Thanks to everyone for checkin up on me! Stay tuned for the A.T.F. charges......"

A few days later, he expresses happiness that the other charges against him were reduced to misdemeanors.

"2 felonies dropped to 1 misdemeanor!!!!!!!!!!! The man knows he was wrong but still got this hump, Thanks to everyone friends and fam, G baby you know your my rock! "

Read more:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/zimmerman-myspace-page_n_1471818.html

by Alessandra_Deux Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:13 am

The Gym

LLMPapa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9aen8BoOn0

by Alessandra_Deux Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:25 am

The new evidence list includes information that Zimmerman trained at a Longwood gym that specializes in boxing and kickboxing.

A webpage for the business, Kokopelli’s Gym, describes it as “the most complete fight gym in the world.”

http://www.kogym.com/

(just a little kickboxing and MMA style fighting going on)
George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013 - Page 2 2dvsar6

George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013 - Page 2 2dvsar6

(not exactly your typical “come and get you’re weight loss on” type of place is it?)

George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013 - Page 2 2zoadjl

George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013 - Page 2 2zoadjl

Source: DothProtestTooMuch.com

by carlakay Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:28 am

LottieM wrote:

HI carlakay. I don't take offense to anyone questioning my opinions. I don't post here like I used to, but the reason I love this board is because we can all say our piece without getting testy over differing opinions.

When this incident first happened, I didn't know what to believe. But the one thing that upset me was the way it became a race issue right away to the point that threats were made by the black communities including the Black Panthers etc. I thought that was jumping to judgement. They didn't wait to hear any facts. A supposed Cracker killed a young black man/boy and that was reason enough to get angry...well, more than angry actually since 'the wrong' Zimmerman household was inadvertently attacked in an effort to get even with Z...but moving on....they didn't even know this man wasn't a cracker! And some people who called in to the news channels to say how awful it was that this young black boy was killed while just innocently walking in the rain with his skittles and tea thought TM was 14 years old! I'm just putting this out to show that TM's supporters jumped to judgement pronto. I don't approve of rush to judgement on either side. If we are to serve justice then we have to weigh the facts. I think I've looked at them carefully and considered the possibilities from all angles.

So with that preface in mind, I'll answer your question. I believe TM started the physical altercation because there are no marks on TM from being hit by anyone. And Z is a wuss! He screamed like a baby as soon as he started getting hit....and I'd bet he couldn't beat his way out of a paper bag. But mostly, it's because there were no marks on TM except the gun shot wound....unless you count the abrasions on his left hand that likely were caused by punching Z in the face.

And speaking of punching Z...I don't believe he was hit as many times as he said. There is no evidence to show that. But I do think Z is such a wuss and knew he was wuss, he believed the altercation to be worse than it probably was.

I'll say this too....I'm a gun advocate. I believe in Permit to Carry as well. But I do not think it's a good idea to pack heat to go to Target for groceries if you are a loose cannon like Z IMO is. And I will say that I don't think Z's first reaction upon realizing -as he said- that TM saw his gun and -as he said- thought TM was making a go for it should have been to pull the trigger. He could have wacked him in the head with it or just threatened him first. AT any rate, You should never shoot a gun out of REaction like Z did...it should only be deliberate action carefully thought out as the last resort. I'm sure Z thought his life was over if he didn't shoot FAST....but that's because he's a wuss. TM made the mistake of thinking Z was a bad ass. Perfect storm.

I think this is going to be tough for the jury. It is self defense imo taking into consideration that Z is a wuss and thought his life was in more danger than it probably was. But he had no real way of knowing what TM might do to him if he passed out. I could argue that there were other ways he could have handled this. But it is what Z thought that is the issue and I think wuss Z thought he was going to die.

Thank you so much for answering my question..believe it or not you are the ONLY person who has and I gotta say your reasoning that TM started the altercation due to his lack of injuries is actually logical. The only problem I have with that tho is what if,as I believe,GZ already had his weapon drawn when they met face to face? See,I too,believe GZ to be a wuss so I think it is logical to believe a wuss would never have entered into a darkened area to pursue someone that in his mind was a criminal without first having drawn his weapon.
So what if upon seeing the gun TM popped GZ in the nose then took off running towards the T with GZ pursuing and ultimately catching him which began the wrestling match on the ground that all the witnesses testified to? The injuries to the back of GZ's head were mere scratches and I don't believe he received them in the manner he has told..I think they just happened during the tussle and that GZ used his gun when TM maniged to get on top. That's a possibility too, in my eyes, and the evidence that was collected on scene actually supports it.Really puzzles me as to why the prosecution did not paint this possible picture.

Also I am a gun owner too and for me this case is more important for THAT issue than the one of race..the fact DiDi shared the cracker comment TM made to her is one of the reasons I believe her story..had this statement been coerced.. that comment would of NEVER come into play.
I truly believe race would not of even been an issue had the police done a proper and immediate investigation..they did not.. so the Martin's attorney took it upon himself to enlist the aid of two of the biggest pot stirrers this nation has yet to produce..they whipped the media into a feeding frenzy the state of Florida could not ignore. I gotta say had TM been my son I would of done the same thing.

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:49 am

Awww... it is back.
Another day...

Defense is presenting.
MOM is questioning witnesses.

http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/7/5/zimmerman_opening_statements.html

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:52 am

Mark Ostermann, states he is a fed lawman
MOM is presenting

http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/

9:51

Comment From jeff
Think about it...your driving by your neighbers house and see someone between the houses that you know dont live there...your going to be suspicious...and if he starts running..your going to think he commited a crime !!!

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:55 am

I missed the other witness.
She is Mark Osterman's wife.
Said something to the effect s/he was "driving by" and saw the altercation with GZ and Trayvon...!!!

Right. They just happened to be there?
They have special eye sight to see between buildings?

This is as good as some long lost uncle hearing a voice on the TV and just knowing it belongs to his nephew. Laughable!!

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:58 am

9:55

Comment From Guest
Zimmerman wasn't going back to his truck. He SAID he never got more than 100ft from it. SOOOOOO why isn't he back at his truck by the end of his call? It doesn't take 2 minutes to walk 100ft. So what was he doing? Not rocket science people. He was still looking for Trayvon. Anybody with some sense in their heads can figure that out.

9:59

Comment From Atlantic Side of FL
Guest - Rachel was on the phone with TM. Yes she was a friend but also was listening to what happened. That is very different than having a close friend testify who had no knowledge of what happened other than GZs statements

Osterman is testifying.
MOM is asking him of the advice he gave to GZ re the purchase and use of the Cal-Tec.

http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:04 am

Osterman listens to the screams on 911 call.
He says they are GZ's, of course.

http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:16 am

Mark Osterman
State is questioning.
He starts by asking about the book Osterman and wife wrote; all proceeds go to GZ.

Witness said GZ had shot before; GZ's father was military.
Witness did not buy or suggest the internal holster.
Whole purpose is it is difficult to see especially in the dark.

State asks if when shooting the purpose is to shoot to kill;
Osterman says he would holster his gun unless the person was a threat; Osterman says he would holster his gun depending on WHAT TYPE OF WEAPON the other person has!

State asks OZ would always have one in the chamber; OZ agrees the advice is for POLICE officers not civilians. Oz agrees GZ is NOT law enforcement.

OZ states he would keep his weapon on the person until they got down on the ground and followed instructions. He told GZ this.

GZ could shoot both R/L handed, better R/handed.

OZ comes across VERY red neck!!!

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:23 am

Osterman, Mark
Being questioned by MOM

MOM is asking about how many bullets in the gun; keeping it fully loaded, etc.

OZ states his wife has two fully loaded guns.

MOM asks re target practice and shooting focus.
OZ states it is difficult to shoot only at paper targets; when emotions run, aim for the largest body mass; fire more than once;

State asks re "double tap" or shooting twice rapidly... Goes to show the control GZ had, the lack of fear, etc..

http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/

http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/

by LottieM Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:31 am

Freckles wrote:Lottie--
I am a stronger supporter of NRA and DO believe everyone (within reason) should carry. Keeps people extra polite. Had Trayvon been of age and mind and been carrying that night, I am sure HE would be on trial and not GZ. However, that is all speculation.

You state GZ is a wuss and would not have initiated an attack against Trayvon because he IS a wuss. I would agree GZ is a wuss; he is also a whiner and a bully with a track record of BEATING UP women. If he could hit a female, kick a dog in the gut, attempt to take out ABC officers then I think he has just graduated in his bullying...

IMO, GZ had a score to settle, a bone to pick, manhood to prove... and Trayvon "conveniently" walked by. Did he just discover he really did not graduate but simply walked a stage to get an empty diploma?
Did he just discover, no matter what degree he might get, he would NEVER be hired due to his past records? Dunno but I think it is valid for consideration.

He kicked a dog?!!! GRRRRR that makes me mad!

Signs of a wuss...all the things you mentioned above. Manhood to prove? Exactly! Is he a bully? Probably so. Do I like him? Not on your life! And he probably has short man syndrome too.

Your thoughts are completely valid for consideration. And you all could be right that Z was out for blood that night....but I don't think TM would be dead if TM had not gotten into an altercation with Z and I still think Z is like most bullies when confronted...they wuss out because I find bullies are usually wusses at heart.

I also think it's only fair to explore TM's history. I'm sure he had a chip on his shoulder as well with the use of the cracker word. His actions that night suggest he isn't inexperienced at fighting. He's no babe in the woods and Z was in over his head with this guy.

Did he have to shoot him? Most people probably would not have....but Z did because he's a wuss! And as a wuss, his fears were exaggerated.

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:36 am

RUSSO, GERI
Digital Risk, audit review of credit, mortgages
Defense witness
She worked with GZ, is a friend of his

She has stayed in contact w/ GZ;
has never heard GZ yell BUT she is going to ID his voice from the tape; she has heard the tape before; she has heard GZ "speak many times"... said the FIRST time she heard it she said, "That's GZ's voice."

STATE to Russo:
When was the first time you heard the tape? Soon after it was released to media.Said she was unaware GZ was being actively investigated; thot GZ was out sick from work and then FLA; she admits she have never heard Trayvon yell or speak.

DEF to Russo:
Did you know GZ was out of the state of FL after the shooting? Yes.
She knew there was a shooting.
MOM asks IF she knew GZ did NOT have charges against him initially;
MOM asks if she knew what court was involved in the charges against GZ; no

Has the friendship with GZ affected you testimony? No.

http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/

0:29

Comment From guest
It's a TEENAGER voice!!! Are people deaf???

http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:52 am

LeeAnn Benjamin
Is a realtor;
met GZ who was in mortgage and home loans
Knows both GZ and SZ
Both her office and his office were in same building;
they shared a kitchen together;
GZ wanted to know how to start a business, etc., and they talked about that;
Friendship progressed from 2003;
they did things socially;
A mutual friend was campaigning for office; GZ was interested in politics so the two couples worked together to elect her friend;

Relationship is intermittent; she re GZ as a close friend;
she is the one who encouraged GZ going to college;
she is a former teacher and loves education;
she says GZ was tutoring young children and she was very "proud" of that;
she was unaware of the shooting and GZ being involved;
GZ called her and they spoke; she was unaware at the time of the call of the shooting; it was a couple weeks after the murder of Trayvon; friendship re-emerged; she has since helped GZ out financially; she and her hubby have taken food for them; they have bought clothing for GZ to wear to court;

Wouldn't GZ have to declare these gifts on his income tax?

Witness states it is GZ's voice on the tape.

by LottieM Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:59 am

carlakay wrote:

Thank you so much for answering my question..believe it or not you are the ONLY person who has and I gotta say your reasoning that TM started the altercation due to his lack of injuries is actually logical. The only problem I have with that tho is what if,as I believe,GZ already had his weapon drawn when they met face to face? See,I too,believe GZ to be a wuss so I think it is logical to believe a wuss would never have entered into a darkened area to pursue someone that in his mind was a criminal without first having drawn his weapon.
So what if upon seeing the gun TM popped GZ in the nose then took off running towards the T with GZ pursuing and ultimately catching him which began the wrestling match on the ground that all the witnesses testified to? The injuries to the back of GZ's head were mere scratches and I don't believe he received them in the manner he has told..I think they just happened during the tussle and that GZ used his gun when TM maniged to get on top. That's a possibility too, in my eyes, and the evidence that was collected on scene actually supports it.Really puzzles me as to why the prosecution did not paint this possible picture.

Also I am a gun owner too and for me this case is more important for THAT issue than the one of race..the fact DiDi shared the cracker comment TM made to her is one of the reasons I believe her story..had this statement been coerced.. that comment would of NEVER come into play.
I truly believe race would not of even been an issue had the police done a proper and immediate investigation..they did not.. so the Martin's attorney took it upon himself to enlist the aid of two of the biggest pot stirrers this nation has yet to produce..they whipped the media into a feeding frenzy the state of Florida could not ignore. I gotta say had TM been my son I would of done the same thing.

Alexandra,
GZ sure didn't learn anything at that gym, did he? Except maybe how to kick a dog. Sad

Carla,
I wonder if it's possible TM thought Z was going for his gun when Z 'said' he reached into his pocket for his cell phone. And of course, as Z 'said' he had put his cell in his other pocket. I thought this part of Z's story was a little TMI (too much information). I wonder if he did go for his gun at that point and that's why TM socked him in the nose. But this is something that isn't going to play at the trial since we only have Z's rendition. And maybe he was going for his cell.....I was attacked once in my truck in a parking lot by my crazy as crap non-biological sister. The first thing I did to 'defend myself' was to grab my cell and let her know if she didn't back off I was calling 911. She didn't back off so I did call and she's still attacking me while I'm on the phone with 911. I yelled at her that the cops were hearing all this stuff she was saying, threats etc. She was oblivious and was still beside my truck throwing punches through the window -that she had broken- when the cops showed up! Later we find out she was high as a kite on marijuana! So just saying that because it's not unreasonable to believe Z was going for his cell phone and not the gun. We'll never know though. And just saying that based on my personal experience above, maybe TM was overly aggressive due to marijuana?

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:08 am

LeeAnn Benjamin (husband is John Donnelly)

They have given several thousand dollars to GZ's fund;
she heard about the shooting; heard it on the TV; she had served on jury before SO she decided to NOT follow the case; she was given deposition this year; she does not recall when she first heard the TV playing the screaming; she knew it was GZ; she has heard it 3 times prior to today; she had heard GZ a lot in the past and GZ was yelling and animated; she has never heard him yell for help; she says she definitely knows this was GZ; now she is uncertain if the yelling for help is continuous; she clearly hears the voice;

BTW:
GZ says to NEN: have them call me... when the PD gets there.
This means GZ FULLY intended to continue the pursuit.

by auman58 Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:15 am

Freckles wrote:

Wouldn't GZ have to declare these gifts on his income tax?

So if they don't get murder 2 they can always go for tax evasion....hang him now, let the rabid mob have him.

by Alessandra_Deux Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:35 am

George Zimmerman Trial Day 20: Live Updates

Last Updated: Monday, July 08, 2013, 11:29 AM

Witness: John Donnelly - Friend of Zimmerman

11:28 a.m.

John Donnelly takes the stand. He is married to Leanne Benjamin and is a friend of Zimmerman

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/7/8/zimmerman_day_20.html

by Alessandra_Deux Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:43 am

Witness: John Donnelly - Friend of Zimmerman

11:36 a.m.

Donnelly says the friendship started with his help doing insurance policies for his real estate customers.

He says Zimmerman would come and sit and talk with them about business.

He says Zimmerman once asked him how to tie a Windsor knot for a tie.

Donnelly says he took Zimmerman to buy three suits, ties and shirts.

He says he has been in and out of the courtroom many times.

He confirms he has donated to the defense fund.

Donnelly says he has heard Zimmerman’s voice in casual conversation, laughing, and yelling during a political campaign.

Donnelly says he did not hear the 911 call with the screams until recently.

He says he was a combat medic in Vietnam.

O’Mara asks him to describe it.

De la Rionda objects to relevance.

Judge Nelson asks the attorneys to approach.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/7/8/zimmerman_day_20.html

by Alessandra_Deux Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:46 am

George Zimmerman trial Day 20

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TRIAL LIVE:

http://www.wptv.com/generic/news/national/George-Zimmerman-trial-complete-coverage

http://www.foxnews.com/live-coverage/zimmerman-trial

http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-live-video-chat-20130612,0,7210676.htmlpage

http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florida/trayvon-martin-extended-coverage/watch-george-zimmerman-trial-live

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/category/259883/george-zimmerman

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/watchchat-live-george-zimmerman-trial-day-1/-/1637132/20665882/-/jrlv3cz/-/index.html?showAds=0

by Alessandra_Deux Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:48 am

Witness: John Donnelly - Friend of Zimmerman

11:43 a.m.

O’Mara asks how long Donnelly was in Vietnam. He says about a year.

He says 2-4 medics were there depending on a mission.

O’Mara asks if Donnelly talked to the other men or heard them yelling or screaming.

Donnelly says sometimes they had conversations, but once in combat the voices changed.

He says he tended to people in combat he knew during the day.

De la Rionda asks to approach the bench.

The attorneys go into sidebar.

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:54 am

Donnelly, John
Retired physician's assistant dealing with major trauma;
works now in litigation
Def witness
Said he is very good friends with GZ and SZ;

GZ helped him with insurance policies, etc.
Says GZ is smart, sharp, business minded;
GZ touched his "heart" when he asked how to tie a Windsor knot for his tie; he bought GZ his ties, shirts and his suits for court;
said he has been in and out of court many times;
he knows when you are in court you dress for respect;
he considers GZ a very close friend;

Oddly, he chooses to tell of the SAME experiences he shared with GZ that his wife talked about.

He was a medic during Vietnam.

He heard the men's voices when they were normally talking and then, in the field, he could hear them screaming. Probably makes it easier for him to ascertain that it was GZ's voice screaming as he "was wounded in combat."

Witness is upset over hearing the screaming voice; says it's GZ...
Oddly, this Vietnam vet is stressed by the screaming voice BUT DID NOT FLINCH when the gunshot was heard!

State is examining the witness.

by Freckles Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:56 am

auman58 wrote:
Freckles wrote:

Wouldn't GZ have to declare these gifts on his income tax?

So if they don't get murder 2 they can always go for tax evasion....hang him now, let the rabid mob have him.

Dang gangam style just do it the Capone style!

by Alessandra_Deux Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:57 am

Zimmerman prosecutors want judge to bar animation depicting confrontation with Martin

By Associated Press, Published: July 8

SANFORD, Fla. — Prosecutors have asked a judge to prevent George Zimmerman’s defense attorneys from showing jurors a computer-animated depiction of his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin.

A motion made public Monday requests that the animation not be mentioned or played at Zimmerman’s second-degree murder trial. Prosecutors say it would only confuse jurors.

Prosecutors say the animation doesn’t show a murder weapon and only approximates positions based on witness accounts.

Read more:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-zimmerman-trial-defense-to-continue-its-case-monday-still-unclear-whether-he-will-testify/2013/07/08/f9742ba0-e7a4-11e2-818e-aa29e855f3ab_story.html

by Alessandra_Deux Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:59 am

Witness: John Donnelly - Friend of Zimmerman

11:50 a.m.

O’Mara asks if the yelling for help of a medic could be compared to how he heard them during regular conversation.

Donnelly says in battle, the screams can be distinguished and the job is to run to them where they are at and because you know the men you’re with, you know who it is before getting there.

O’Mara asks about the 911 call with the screams in the background.

Donnelly says he heard pieces of it in the news and tuned it out and walked away.

He says he didn’t want to hear it because it can be distressing to hear a friend yelling for help.

He says he listened to it this past Saturday while alone in his office.

O’Mara plays the recording.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/7/8/zimmerman_day_20.html

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