Kyron Horman -- Missing 6/4/10 #3

For the record, I think Terri is/was a loving mom also.. I have seen tons of photos she took of Kyron's events on her facebook page - soccer, projects etc.. much to the annoyance of those who claimed she had no photos of Kyron on her page!!!! Also, Kyron called her "mom" and that tells me a lot.. she looked after him from when he was very young etc. In fact I think her love for him is the motivation for the abduction I suspect she masterminded..

I also have my doubts about Desiree as a caring mother though I don't think she abducted or killed Kyron.. I think she feels guilty cos she wasnt there for him all that much so she overcompensates by trying to make out she was a wonderful mother - Terri rants that Desiree had visitation every other weekend (I think) but hardly ever saw Kyron except on holidays and that it was Terri who had to console him when he wasnt going to see his mom for the weekend as he had been led to believe time and again, let down at the last moment.. I know how much that hurts a little kid, as it happened to me when I was little and my kids were divorced.. and I think it only happened two times to me so it would have been heartbreaking for Kyron to have that happen so many times.. poor little boy, no matter what has happened to him, he sure didnt deserve it..

I nearly choked on my coffee when Desiree said Kyron's bed was still unmade and left as it was when he last left it - I think at that point it had been two weeks since she last saw him already, and for those two weeks she didnt know he was about to go missing - is she saying she just happened not to have made his bed in all that time???

This is not what I would call "lying" - it is what I call a "white lie" but she should be careful cos in a case like this, any little lie can come back to bite you (as Terri is finding out!)

msollicito, I appreciate your post, but, respectfully..... a white lie is still a lie. And, like you said, lying can comeback to bite you in the butt.... anytime.

Saying a white lie is not really lying is like saying if you're just a few days pregnant, you're not really pregnant....

Just sayin'

Kyron’s mom wants help to increase reward

By Steve Benham KATU.com Staff
Story Updated: Oct 1, 2010 at 5:33 PM PDT



PORTLAND, Ore. – In a desperate plea to the public, the mother of missing 8-year-old Kyron Horman, asked for help to increase the reward to find him, and asked the people supporting his stepmother, Terri Horman, to help find the missing boy, too.

“I don’t know what else to do,” Desiree Young said at an afternoon news conference held in front of her son’s Wall of Hope near his elementary school, Skyline School. “It’s been four months now and Kyron is still not home, and I would like to appeal to everybody, and ask everybody, to help me get the reward increased.”

Read more: http://www.katu.com/news/local/104184569.html

Snaz wrote:msollicito, I appreciate your post, but, respectfully..... a white lie is still a lie. And, like you said, lying can comeback to bite you in the butt.... anytime.

Saying a white lie is not really lying is like saying if you're just a few days pregnant, you're not really pregnant....

Just sayin'

Well, given that the average person lies once every 10 minutes of conversation, I would say that white lies are forgivable.. see http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-110733970.html

Anyone who says they never lie is the biggest liar of them all!!! ;-)

Just My Opinion

msollicito wrote:

Snaz wrote:msollicito, I appreciate your post, but, respectfully..... a white lie is still a lie. And, like you said, lying can comeback to bite you in the butt.... anytime.

Saying a white lie is not really lying is like saying if you're just a few days pregnant, you're not really pregnant....

Just sayin'

Well, given that the average person lies once every 10 minutes of conversation, I would say that white lies are forgivable.. see http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-110733970.html

Anyone who says they never lie is the biggest liar of them all!!! ;-)

Just My Opinion

We're talking apples and oranges here. Your reference (from Marie Claire magazine, btw - not exactly a scientific study) is friends telling little "white lies" about "do you like my hair?" We are talking LIES, white or any other color.... in a missing child case. Zero comparison.

And I would agree with you that anyone who says they never lie is, indeed, telling a lie. However, I don't know that I would go to the extreme to say they are the BIGGEST liar. To my way of thinking, a pathological liar is a much worse type of liar..... but then that's just me.

And my original point was that a white lie is still a lie... I stand by that opinion. Lies do have a difference of importance in how they affect someone, something or a situation.... but, ultimately, they are all still lies.

JMO

God bless Kyron.

Dez is stupid for only asking for people within Terri's circle to come forward with information! I just don't get this woman....I don't get why it HAS to be Terri! If my kid was missing, even if I thought a certain person was the perp I'd still want every piece of info about any other person!

Snaz wrote:

We're talking apples and oranges here. Your reference (from Marie Claire magazine, btw - not exactly a scientific study) is friends telling little "white lies" about "do you like my hair?"

We are both on the same side - Kyron's ;-)

A more scientific reference to the same fact for you here http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fibbing-common-in-everyda

I agree, as I said, in a case like this all lies - even little white lies - should be avoided too..

msollicito wrote:

Snaz wrote:

We're talking apples and oranges here. Your reference (from Marie Claire magazine, btw - not exactly a scientific study) is friends telling little "white lies" about "do you like my hair?"

We are both on the same side - Kyron's ;-)

A more scientific reference to the same fact for you here http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fibbing-common-in-everyda

I agree, as I said, in a case like this all lies - even little white lies - should be avoided too..

I will agree that we are both on Kyron's side. We both want him to come home safely, whomever may have taken him.

Kyron searchers comb Sauvie Island

by Amanda Burden, KGW Staff
kgw.com
Posted on October 2, 2010 at 4:19 PM

PORTLAND -- The search for Kyron Horman continued Saturday on Sauvie Island.

All day, 160 search and rescue personnel from multiple jurisdictions combed farms and forest in the rural area. On A-T-V's, on horseback and with K-9 crews, the mostly-volunteer team said they would not give up until this case is resolved.

"They all have that mission," said Lt. Mary Lindstrand, spokesperson for the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. "And that mission is to bring Kyron home. And that's what we are going to do."

Recently-developed information led investigators to conclude there were areas of Sauvie Island that needed to be examined--and in some cases, reexamined--in greater detail.

http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman...104215589.html

Scanner link:

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?action=cwp&ctid=2230

someone on scared monkeys is getting all excited the scanner - that they are searching NW Mill location - this is exactly the location where the psychics and Harry O thought Kyron might be found (early in the investigation)
Have they found a body? Its all a bit confused..

Comments from SM says there was a call on the scanner for a K9. They were searching a house and property that starts with the letter M. Maybe Mountain Dale or Mill Road. Person who was listening to the scanner said he/she couldn't hear because the dog barked, but he/she said they believed it was on Mill Road. This according to another person is the residence of BP. Also something was said about a retired cop. Search will continue until tomorrow night. That's all that's been said so far. Police had switched to privacy channel.

Thank you all for the search updates. I wonder what today will bring...

I believe this is one of the locations they were searching last night..
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=14900+NW+Mill+Rd,+Portland,+OR+97231&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.114675,78.662109&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=14900+NW+Mill+Rd,+Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon+97231&t=h&z=16

I understand that Brian Pumala's father owns a houseboat around that location and that he is a retired police officer. It is also extremely close to a truck salvage yard that both Calypso and I believe needs close searching. The famous Psychic Jackie (forget her last name) described this exact area to search back on June 21st or so.. I believe it was this same location where Harry Oakes then went to search that area and found a sock - the dogs reacted to a death scent on the sock

I heard lots of rumors - they were up the East side of Sturgeon Lake too - so I am not sure whether they were searching two different locations?

Kyron search renews on Sauvie Island

Story Updated: Oct 2, 2010 at 7:16 PM PDT

~Snipped~
UPDATE: Lindstrand said more than 160 search-and-rescue personnel participated in Saturday’s search. The island search will continue through the weekend.

Nearly 12,000 acres of the island are undeveloped, serving as the Sauvie Island Wildlife Area. The island is surrounded or dotted by water features, including Sturgeon Lake, Johnson Lake, Halderman Pond and Wagonwheel Hole. In June The Willamette Week newspaper, citing anonymous police sources, reported that cell phone records show Terri Horman was on the island June 4.

Outside help has arrived
After spending more than a million dollars looking for Kyron, the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office called for outside help Sept. 15. Sheriff Dan Staton said Multnomah County detectives would make up 30 percent of the new search team and outside agencies would provide the rest.


http://www.katu.com/news/local/104213469.html

I hope Kyron is found soon. What if he's not on Sauvie Island at all? That seems to be the only place they are focusing on. Harry Oakes claimed on his Facebook the other day that search dogs are alerting near the Horman property, but he hasn't been allowed on the property or given a scent article.

Thanks for the map, msollicito. Has the vegetation started to clear some with the change of season, has rain increased/decreased? I don't know much about that area, except that Sauvie is thick with vegetation, waterways, it's own islands and is very large. Something keeps bringing them back to Sauvie Island....and I agree J4A about the Horman property and Harry Oakes, how in depth have they searched there.

I dunno.. I think there are lots of reasons to search Sauvie Island.. pings from Terri's cellphone, sightings of the white pickup with a redhead in it at 9:45 just north of logie trail rd (quite close to NW Mill Rd), sightings of the red mustang that day on the actual island (possibly accompanied by other car(s), not confirmed).
Also the link to Brian Pumala is another reason to do the search of the houseboat.. see blink on crime here (half way down page)
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/23/new-clues-in-kyron-horman-search-fact-or-fiction-you-decide/comment-page-12/

A bit off topic but, if you believe that they should search places where Harry Oakes dogs get a hit (e.g. Horman house) then sign this petition
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/kyronhormanscentarticle/

I only saw a single ping reported from the island, and the information I researched showed that in rural areas, the signal can travel up to 85 miles to ping off a tower depending on direction. Isn't this island within 10 miles? If so, a single ping is worthless. It would take a series of pings to show a direction of travel to be important and meaningful. The only usefulness is to show she was in the general area of the county within an 85 mile radius. We already know that.

Also, I would like to know the outcome of the interviews they should have conducted with BP's estranged wife. Tanner's stepmother reportedly moved out of the state the same day Kyron disappeared. Has anyone seen where LE has interviewed her in her new Arizona locale? If the suspected affair between TH and BP is remotely true, shouldn't his wife who left him that very day be a person of interest?

Hi msollicito. There are lot of reasons to search the island, but that shouldn't be the only place that ever gets searched.

As Blink pointed out in her post, Terri followed cases like this. Terri most likely is well aware of cell phone pings, and if she is responsible, it is highly unlikely she would have had her cell phone on her anywhere near the point where she dumped Kyron's body or gave him away to somebody.

If LE secretly suspects somebody else, then maybe they do have a good reason to keep searching the island.

Maat, you bring up some pretty interesting questions about BP's estranged wife. The main reason I haven't got too involved in this case is because of the huge number of questions without answers. LE has released very little, so there isn't much to go on besides "reliable sources."

J4A, I know what you mean. I can't believe NO ONE is talking. I mean, they do spread little rumors here and there, but no one is coming forward and standing up in front of the cameras and saying anything. No one says, "I know these people and this is what I have seen . . . ." or "I was at the school that morning and . . . " That is strange to me.

Maat wrote:I only saw a single ping reported from the island, and the information I researched showed that in rural areas, the signal can travel up to 85 miles to ping off a tower depending on direction. Isn't this island within 10 miles? If so, a single ping is worthless. It would take a series of pings to show a direction of travel to be important and meaningful. The only usefulness is to show she was in the general area of the county within an 85 mile radius. We already know that.

Also, I would like to know the outcome of the interviews they should have conducted with BP's estranged wife. Tanner's stepmother reportedly moved out of the state the same day Kyron disappeared. Has anyone seen where LE has interviewed her in her new Arizona locale? If the suspected affair between TH and BP is remotely true, shouldn't his wife who left him that very day be a person of interest?

I think there is a lot of evidence to support the idea that Terri was in the Sauvie Island area - cellphone pings, yes.. but also sightings - one by Chas North of Logie Trail Rd on Hwy 30 and a few different ones by residents of Sauvie Island.

I believe you are talking about Ann Pumala - she turned out to be the sister of Brian I believe, someone can correct me if I am wrong, I cannot find the link about that. I agree that if Brian Pumala and Terri were having an affair it would still be worth looking into if his sister left town around that time..

I hope the cops are following up on all these threads - any one of them could lead to Kyron..

Maat wrote:J4A, I know what you mean. I can't believe NO ONE is talking. I mean, they do spread little rumors here and there, but no one is coming forward and standing up in front of the cameras and saying anything. No one says, "I know these people and this is what I have seen . . . ." or "I was at the school that morning and . . . " That is strange to me.

I know for a fact that all the direct witnesses have been told not to speak. Anything they do say is either engineered by LE or not condoned by LE. For example, Tanner Pumala appears not to have been condoned by LE for one or other reason.. I suspect Dede's People interview was part of a deal with LE - I think she is now on the side of LE and the article with People was to reassure Terri she is still on her side whereas really she is working with LE. That is all just my opinion.. there are plenty who say the opposite of course..

Justice4all wrote:Hi msollicito. There are lot of reasons to search the island, but that shouldn't be the only place that ever gets searched.

As Blink pointed out in her post, Terri followed cases like this. Terri most likely is well aware of cell phone pings, and if she is responsible, it is highly unlikely she would have had her cell phone on her anywhere near the point where she dumped Kyron's body or gave him away to somebody.

If LE secretly suspects somebody else, then maybe they do have a good reason to keep searching the island.

Maat, you bring up some pretty interesting questions about BP's estranged wife. The main reason I haven't got too involved in this case is because of the huge number of questions without answers. LE has released very little, so there isn't much to go on besides "reliable sources."

If you read my theory (under theories thread) I believe the whole cellphone pings was one of the very cleverly engineered things Terri did as part of her master plan of this whole disappearance - as you say, she followed these kinds of cases, she was really into murder mysteries and she likes to think of herself as very clever I think (plus see my posts about Enter a Murderer and Boondock Saints See http://kyronhorman.spruz.com/forums/?page=post&id=BD15DD9C-8987-443A-90F1-7944A409FB6F&fid=0E4A2EFF-209B-44C6-AB24-EE2C23D6C915&pageindex=1 and next page).

I think she intentionally left HER cellphone in the white pickup truck while accomplice (Dede?) was driving up Highway 30 (probably with Kyron) but then drove to the two Freddies, around Sauvie Island and to the Xtreme Fitness in the Red Mustang.. all of this simply to cause extreme confusion and to encourage law enforcement to focus on HER rather than accomplice (Dede?).. I think it was a very clever move on her part but I think she wants LE to work it out eventually - to her this is like a huge Dungeons and Dragons game for REAL written by her.. hence all the literary references and Dungeons and Dragons refs like "To surrender now would be to pay the expensive ogre twice" (in Dungeons and Dragons, the expensive ogre is used as a substitute for LOTS of ogres - I think Terri and maybe Dede think that Kyron going missing is going to save lots of other little boys from something - maybe sexual abuse or similar). See my analysis of this quote here too http://kyronhorman.spruz.com/forums/?page=post&id=BD15DD9C-8987-443A-90F1-7944A409FB6F&fid=0E4A2EFF-209B-44C6-AB24-EE2C23D6C915&pageindex=2

Hi Everyone :) I'm new here, but have been following for some time now. Purple, I like your theory.
For some reason, I cannot get out of my mind, that perhaps Kyron is being held in a storage unit somewhere. Possibly alive. I don't know if storage units have been checked in Portland or the surrounding area, but couldn't SAR dogs just have to walk around the outside of units and pick up a scent if they were given a scent article by the parents??

Nisha1 wrote:Hi Everyone :) I'm new here, but have been following for some time now. Purple, I like your theory.
For some reason, I cannot get out of my mind, that perhaps Kyron is being held in a storage unit somewhere. Possibly alive. I don't know if storage units have been checked in Portland or the surrounding area, but couldn't SAR dogs just have to walk around the outside of units and pick up a scent if they were given a scent article by the parents??

Welcome Nisha1 - glad you like my theory!! I just get bashed for it most of the time so nice to see someone doesnt think its crazy!! ;-)
There are a couple of us on here who think it is possible that Kyron might be being held at the Miller Truck Salvage yard see this map http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=14900+NW+Mill+Rd,+Portland,+OR+97231&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.114675,78.662109&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=14900+NW+Mill+Rd,+Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon+97231&t=h&z=16

It is very close to where they were searching last night (they were searching the houseboats just in front of it on the river, one of which was the Pumala houseboat - as well as searching on Sauvie Island itself).

I hope they let the dogs try that area out too.. its right on the journey I believe the accomplice (Dede?) took if you look at my map of what I suspect is the suspected accomplices journey
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=109872711745862717538.0004911a30a1849e9bb7d&t=h&z=10

I still think adding all the twists and turns to make it nice and dramatic also makes it highly unlikely. The simplest way for Terri to get rid of Kyron is to have him disappear while playing in the front yard one day. Much easier and harder to disprove than all this crazy running around with a sick baby and sneaking vehicles and playing phone tag and dragging in body doubles to get away with it. Why would someone so well versed in murder mysteries (as apparently we all are since we are on this forum and watch TV) choose such a stupid plan when the simplest one would be more likely to be successful?

I agree, I can't figure out why everyone is making this such a complicated case and going through so much trouble to invent scenario's as to how Terri could have pulled this off instead of considering the possibility that she's not guilty. Why is everyone being so protective of the school, the teachers, Kaine, etc. Why not look at this case realistically? When it was determined that she had an established alibi and couldn't have possibly have been on Sauvie, then all these other people came into the picture. She obviously isn't that likable, so I can't see her having friends that are going to help her take and do something with Kyron. And now these new searches. I would definitely be concerned that if something is discovered at this time, that it could be planted by some of those who hate Terri. Hope anyone who would might plan to do something like this would know that there are ways to test for how long something as been exposed to the elements, or at least there are on TV. I read on a site somewhere that in one of the searches, not sure if it's these recent ones, that a male child's jacket was found. Kyron's coat was left at school. Is this a raincoat? Isn't it hot in June in Oregon?

Sauvie Island searcher: 'Bones, we're looking for bones'

Story Updated: Oct 3, 2010 at 8:11 PM PDT

~Snipped~

On this balmy Sunday, searchers were instructed not to talk to the media or discuss their tactics. However, we did overhear one searcher with a dog – one of five dogs sniffing over Sauvie Island Sunday – say "Bones, we're looking for bones."

However, no one within the investigation will confirm what it is they're exactly looking for. They will only confirm there aren't any new tips making them spend the weekend searching this water-riddled island.

Read more: http://www.katu.com/news/104248539.html

Maat wrote:I still think adding all the twists and turns to make it nice and dramatic also makes it highly unlikely. The simplest way for Terri to get rid of Kyron is to have him disappear while playing in the front yard one day. Much easier and harder to disprove than all this crazy running around with a sick baby and sneaking vehicles and playing phone tag and dragging in body doubles to get away with it. Why would someone so well versed in murder mysteries (as apparently we all are since we are on this forum and watch TV) choose such a stupid plan when the simplest one would be more likely to be successful?

I dunno - I suspect because she didnt want to kill him, she just wanted to get him away - she wanted to get him to an airport or to a houseboat without any trace so that someone else could take him from there - but I think she might get away with it as a result actually.. because at the beginning of the whole thing, LE were chasing the cellphone pings and claiming that wasnt consistent with her story of where she was. Well then she proved she was where she said she was - the two Freddies (receipt, surveillance cameras, talk to Andrea etc.) So now they know she can't be the person seen in the white truck taking Kyron from the school - so it is almost impossible for them to charge her unless they prove this whole planning and conspiracy thing and they find out who the other person (accomplice) was.. I think it would be rather clever if it wasnt so sick..

Plus you have to take in the psychological aspect of this whole thing - I think Terri wants to create her own murder mystery, her own Dungeons and Dragons game to show how clever she is. This is consistent with all her postings in "code" or in other languages, her quotations, her references to various literary works etc.

By the way, I am not "making a complicated case". My scenario fits all the known "facts" (of course none is really FACTS in this case, but it is the best we have got) in the best way I can work out.. see my theory at http://www.realitychatter.com/kyron-horman-f70/theories-t2785.htm
I think a lot of the time people who think I am making it a complicated case are not aware of all the "facts".. once you are aware of all the "facts" you realize it IS complicated.

For example, 1) Terri seems to be pretty much proven to be at Freddies at the time witnesses claim they saw Kyron leave the school with Terri. Those witnesses are sure the truck Kyron left in was Kaine's. So it is highly suspected that Terri is NOT the person who picked up Kyron in Kaine's truck, but WAS driving Kaine's truck, and DID appear to have red hair.
2) Terri seems to be pretty much proven to be at Freddies at the time there is a ping up at Scappoose airport. While it is true that pings can come from elsewhere with cellphones, I understand that all others who were using cellphones in the Freddies area that day were pinging to a closer cellphone tower, so it is highly suspected that Terri's cellphone was NOT with Terri

3) There were sightings of the red mustang on Sauvie Island at 11am - because the car was driving recklessly, residents reported the RDSQRL tag to cops BEFORE anyone even knew Kyron was missing.

There are lots of other things that make this complicated, but even if just those three "facts" are true, it sounds to me like Terri engineered this and made the whole thing very complicated and confusing.

The tag number was not initially reported. That was added after her tag became public info. That jumps out at me as people filling in the blank. Once they found out Kaine had the car, then suddenly, the blue vehicle became a white truck with a red head. These so-called facts are rumor mill grind. Find the 911 recordings if you wish, I'm not digging. I am going by the reports online from back then when people actually had some brain cells left and did consider other people.

The cell phone SINGLE ping on the island is worthless, and what if Terri left her phone in the car because of lack of cell service at home? Then the ping is connected to Kaine having the vehicle at his job nearby.

And maybe Terri was spotted at the store when Kyron disappeared because (prepare yourself for a shock!) SHE REALLY HAD TO STOP AT THE STORE! She has had statements released that the first store did not have the right medicine she needed for her child, so she went to another nearby store to get it. That really is not uncommon. Of course, I guess it could be part of her grand scheme to buy out all the particular medication she needed at the first store so she could create the need to go to the second store for a better alibi.

I think anyone trying to get away with a crime who everyone seems to think is an expert at it could do a better job. A park, or even a store. He wanders out to the car and is gone. And her so-called accomplices could still be involved, if that makes you feel better. Everyone sees Kyron ride away from the park with a redhead while Terri is still there screaming for help. For someone so desperate for attention, wouldn't that make a much more dramatic story?

The scenario of everyone running around town to make false alibis is ridiculous. After all, Dede is known in the area, too. Wouldn't it be highly likely someone who knows her would have recognized her instead of Terri? Plus, she was initially confirmed at work until it didn't fit the stories, so they changed it (more rumors, of course).

Simplest answer really clears Kiane, too. Yet, he still has no confirmation of his time frame. He tells us it is confirmed. Do you have solid proof that Intel has identifying key cards? Many do not have them narrowed down to the individual person, just to the door code. And do you have solid proof that he was actually at his job at that time and left at that time? I don't think you do. He said it, so apparently he is God and it is SO. Not good enough for me. The school is close by. He easily could have slipped off for a bit and then returned, if he even returned.

I still lean towards a stranger, which includes other people he may have known, but considered a stranger because the family is not aware of their predisposition to be a predator. Someone who took an opportunity and ran with it. And since no one is bothering to look for them, they are not all that concerned about being caught.

I think I lean toward the simplest solution - that TH couldn't have been two places at once - so she didn't do it!

I don't think that Kaine could have fooled LE, fooled Tony Young AND gotten away with saying that he and the rest had passed their LDT if he didn't. He probably could have fooled Desiree, but not Tony, I don't believe.

I think that LE is focusing on whomever was in or near her truck that morning, and THAT person is who took Kyron away. So maybe someone has framed Terri, knowing that she would be the immediate suspect. Or maybe it is retaliation against her or her and Kaine for something.

For Terri to have done this, it would require a plot as complicated as the one you described, but I have my doubts that 3 people could be involved, that LE hasn't checked flight plans of private planes leaving all the local airports, etc. The information you noted about the cell phone pings is not anything I have seen verified anywhere - do you have a source?

But I appreciate the work that you have done and the maps are really helpful.

Maat wrote:The tag number was not initially reported.

That is not true according to my information. It was reported to cops at around 11am on June 4th by more than one person according to my info.

Maat wrote: when people actually had some brain cells left and did consider other people.

You do not have to be disrespectful and nasty. We have different points of view but we both want Kyron found and we both want justice. Actually at the beginning of all this, I suspected KAINE big time - when everyone else jumped towards Terri, I had the opposing view.. I went on record saying I suspected that Kaine had sexually abused Kyron like Kristian and his Grandfather before him were supposedly sexual abusers. Also, at first, I assumed Kaine was the one driving around on Sauvie Island. I have been through all the "facts" you guys are quoting, investigated them, and decided they don't hold water. But I am not angry at you guys for looking back over the facts from the beginning. I think it is good that people with different perspectives look at a case like this because maybe there is something key I missed. But when I looked at the "facts" as I could find them - like Kaine is accounted for at the time (he was swiped into the building, at a meeting with colleagues, he passed his polygraph according to a "reliable source" quoted by a respected journalist) I felt that I had to look elswhere.


I have already examined your whole idea that maybe she just really went to the store - as I say, at first I was a Terri supporter.. but too many things didnt add up for me - I am not going to deal with each thing in detail as I have done so many times before on here.

I dont know if the accomplice was Dede - I actually suspect it might not be.. I hope I didnt give the impression that I KNEW it was Dede.. I only suspected it cos she has red hair really - but actually it might not be. It might be someone wearing a red wig, or another redhead.

I posted a lot of info about Kaine another time here on this forum - I posted pics of his office, pics of the security cameras, pics of the car park, and various postings and articles about the security system at Jones Farm 5 Intel building. Also various "sources" saying Kaine was in a meeting with a number of people that day for at least an hour and a half and was seen around at other times of that day, that altogether convinced me he was at work from 8am to 1pm ish.

You are welcome to your opinion. I hope I am welcome to mine ;-)

soulpatch wrote:I think I lean toward the simplest solution - that TH couldn't have been two places at once - so she didn't do it!

I agree - I dont think Terri actually DID do it - if you read my theory, I think she ENGINEERED it, but I think the accomplice (Dede??) actually took Kyron..
I think whoever DID it had Kaine's truck though, according to witness reports, so I think it was done with Terri's knowledge. Just my opinion (I hope I dont have to keep saying Just My Opinion ;-) )

that LE hasn't checked flight plans of private planes leaving all the local airports, etc. The information you noted about the cell phone pings is not anything I have seen verified anywhere - do you have a source?

I know for a fact that LE checked the flight plans of private plans leaving all local airports very early on in the investigation - cos when I asked for them the airports said "No the police have told us not to give out that info" The cellphone pings info came from scared monkeys I think - maybe Calypso can find that titbit? Seeing as though I am "banned"!!! ;-)

But I appreciate the work that you have done and the maps are really helpful.

Well, thank you, it is nice to be appreciated ;-)

I truly was not focusing on you with that comment. I meant the public in general. However, I would like to know some real, honest to goodness, reliable, consistent source for your information. Why? Because I was reading about this case from Day One, and when this so-called chase game on the island was first mentioned, it was not by tag number at all, and the color and styles of the vehicles were not the same. It evolved into being a red Mustang first, then a white truck was added in, then the red hair, then the tag number. Not from the beginning. All of the things pointing to Terri came out over a week later, even though the initial info didn't include the same stuff. People changed their report to what they wanted to be in order to be 'helpful' in the investigation. By coloring the info that way, maybe it would pan out to fit their story and they could always say, "I helped catch that woman" whether their information was accurate or not.

I have played with various scenarios myself. The only one I cannot make fit is Terri. Not because I think she is an angel, but because this would be the stupidest plan ever for her. She had daily opportunities to have Kyron disappear. All she had to do was say she had her back turned for a minute dealing with the baby, and Kyron could disappear with no one the wiser. This plan involved extra people and risk and exact timing and chaos, all with a sick baby in tow. Not feasible at all.

I love comparing stories, but the feasibility factor has to come into play. Why would all these people conspire to take this child in such a chaotic and difficult manner when simpler methods were available daily?

Maat wrote:I truly was not focusing on you with that comment. I meant the public in general. However, I would like to know some real, honest to goodness, reliable, consistent source for your information. Why? Because I was reading about this case from Day One, and when this so-called chase game on the island was first mentioned, it was not by tag number at all, and the color and styles of the vehicles were not the same. It evolved into being a red Mustang first, then a white truck was added in, then the red hair, then the tag number. Not from the beginning. All of the things pointing to Terri came out over a week later, even though the initial info didn't include the same stuff. People changed their report to what they wanted to be in order to be 'helpful' in the investigation. By coloring the info that way, maybe it would pan out to fit their story and they could always say, "I helped catch that woman" whether their information was accurate or not.

I have played with various scenarios myself. The only one I cannot make fit is Terri. Not because I think she is an angel, but because this would be the stupidest plan ever for her. She had daily opportunities to have Kyron disappear. All she had to do was say she had her back turned for a minute dealing with the baby, and Kyron could disappear with no one the wiser. This plan involved extra people and risk and exact timing and chaos, all with a sick baby in tow. Not feasible at all.

I love comparing stories, but the feasibility factor has to come into play. Why would all these people conspire to take this child in such a chaotic and difficult manner when simpler methods were available daily?

Ok.. well I have already posted on this forum a number of posts from amareign, she lives on the island and she and her neighbors (who are like a neighborhood watch on the island) saw the red mustang that day (plus other vehicles but I am hazy on the details of the other details - though SHE isnt). What I do know is that they saw TERRI and they saw her in the RED MUSTANG and they wrote down tag numbers and reported them to the cops immediately because the mustang was driving so erratically and another car went off of the road. Those tag numbers were of such interest to law enforcement that they came straight out and started searching, got a dive team out etc. NOTE this little neighborhood watch often wrote down tag numbers and reported them to law enforcement cos lots of people speed on the island. The report was made at 11am on June 4th. LE have told them all to keep quiet about it, which is why there is so much confusion about this.


Quotes from amareign

(posted June 27th)
http://missingpersons.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=480
"I gave the sherriff the information he needed to talk to 1 of the people who witnessed what happened that morning. His eyes got HUGE!"
(also note on the same page that the sherriff sent people out to search all around there on the basis of the tips from locals about this)

(posted June 26th)

http://missingpersons.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=490

(posted June 23rd)

http://missingpersons.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46&p=381#p381

http://missingpersons.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46&p=383#p383

amareign says on this page that witnesses wrote down the tag numbers.
"Its not on a report. This is a small island. Most of the people have lived out here for years. We have a small knit community on the island. People out here try to pay attention to vehicles and people. We are a tourist trap at this time of year. We have issues with theft on the farms and all sorts on nonsense. We all try to watch out for each other. In other words, people pay attention when anything is not normal. We have our own neighborhood watch as one could say. It has been reported to the proper agency. This is why we feel they have spent so much time out here. There were eye witnesses who wrote down license plate numbers."

One quote I had about amareigns posts but I cant find the original..
"the red Mustang and a truck were seen driving at a high rate of speed by witness accounts "

Another thing that convinces me these sightings were authentic is the fact that a lot of the "first hand reports" have been deleted.. For example, below is a reference within justicequest to a link containing lots of info about these sightings in Sauvie Island but if you click on the link the actual text of that discussion has disappeared.. (as I told you, the first hand witnesses were told not to pass on the info just after they talked with cops)

http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showthread.php?p=409630

"The offshot page is called "Kyron Horman Open Discussion", and although a lot of it has evolved into a board war with the other facebook group, there are some interesting posts from locals, including a recent on that both the white truck AND the red Mustang were seen on Sauvie Island on June 4th.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kyron-...734246?ref=ts#! "

sorry I ommitted something from the amareign posts..
"It was at the end of the island. Terri was not driving the truck. It was a red mustang." (June 23rd)

But, these posts are ALL way after that date. The ones I read about the initial reports were the day after his disappearance when people were considering all options. Those reports I believe to be much more accurate than those made several days, even weeks later. I began following this case within the first 2-3 days. By June 8th or 9th, I was hooked. Those initial written and published reports did not include anything that sounded like Terri. That came later. It was added just like sugar to coffee, to make things a little sweeter.

Maat - is this a competition to find out how well we know this case? Cos if it is I think I beat you. I have been working on this case all day long since the day Kyron went missing, I have lots of connections to LE and first hand witnesses on the case and I am well aware that there are lots of POSTs about this.. I am quoting someone (amareign) who I know to be very reliable, I know she lives on the island, I know she and her neighbors reported this sighting to the police at 11am June 4th - BEFORE Kyron was known to be missing. Just because she posted weeks later, doesnt mean the report wasnt made that day!

I am tired of justifying myself here.. you arent going to change your viewpoint and I am not going to change mine. I am going to continue my research, I am wasting my time here.

P.S as I stated, most of the first hand reports that are AUTHENTIC have been deleted - probably by LE putting pressure on the forums owners.. my guess only..
However, the psychic forums are run by Jackie in the UK and she wont let LE tell her what to do, which is why amareigns posts are still available.

Any other posts that DO remain on the internet about this issue are probably unreliable and full of BS.

I am simply reporting that when the vehicles were first reported, the colors and styles of the vehicles were different. They bounced around and changed once people picked out Terri. The tag number was not in the initial police report from what I did read. Someone posted back then the direct report of the calls to 911, which did not include the tag number, or a white truck at all, nor did it specify Mustang. I think it was one of the local Oregon news outlets where someone posted these links, but they have since been purged. The vehicles, I believe were posted as a red car and a blue truck or SUV. That turned into a red Mustang with this particular tag number and Dede's SUV first, then when they realized Terri had the truck, the blue SUV became a white truck.

Not saying you haven't followed it, I am saying people are changing their stories because it fits the storyline better. It may not even be a conscious thing they are doing, but it is happening. You say something long enough, you might believe it is true.

While they are dancing with their stories, the real perp is getting away with a crime.

Interesting:

amarareign
Post subject: Re: Kyron horman please use this thred for kyron
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:54 pm
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Sauvie Island
"mamarho wrote:
to clarify this topic, the actual witness did not say there was a truck, the specifics of mentioning the truck on the island was an error (amarareign was the origin poster and can confirm here if you don't believe me). the driver was not james, nor a teenager."

We have the other vehicle figured out along with pictures. For the record it is NOT a truck. It was NOT chasing the other vehicle.

Can't confirm the car, but can clear the truck.

purpleprincess wrote:Maat - is this a competition to find out how well we know this case? Cos if it is I think I beat you. I have been working on this case all day long since the day Kyron went missing, I have lots of connections to LE and first hand witnesses on the case and I am well aware that there are lots of POSTs about this.. I am quoting someone (amareign) who I know to be very reliable, I know she lives on the island, I know she and her neighbors reported this sighting to the police at 11am June 4th - BEFORE Kyron was known to be missing. Just because she posted weeks later, doesnt mean the report wasnt made that day!

I am tired of justifying myself here.. you arent going to change your viewpoint and I am not going to change mine. I am going to continue my research, I am wasting my time here.

BBM

Purpleprincess, maybe if you provide proof of these people that you "know to be reliable," then others can feel comfortable knowing your information is, indeed, reliable. If you are unable to provide this proof for whatever reason, well, hopefully you can understand why others may feel some skepticism regarding your information. It isn't really fair to ask others to just take your word for the information you consider to be reliable.

Unless they were following this car it would not have been possible to write down the tag if it was driving that fast. And definitely not if another vehicle was behind it. The first reports did not initially state the car was driven by Terri or even a person with red hair. I'm not saying I don't believe they saw a car, I'm just saying the details have been added later. If those details have been given to LE then LE has grounds to make an arrest if they could confirm that Terri and not Kaine was driving that car and the other evidence indicated she was involved. They don't have that and that's why they have not named her as a suspect and they say themselves she is not a person of interest in Kyron's disappearance.

The stories of some of these persons posting on the sight you mentioned have changed their stories and new scenario's have emerged as the information has changed. While there is some good information there and other physic sites, lots of what is being said is opinion, just like on other sites. Astrology charts are more accurate when read correctly, but things can be missed if not read properly. Some astrologers are now beginning to say the charts indicate Kaine is involved. IMO what they are now seeing was always there, but they misinterpreted the chart early on.

One of the very earliest reportings of this car that was seen by a witness on Sauvie Island was that it was a purplish color and had some sort of vanity plate, but I don't recall the letters they gave, but it was not RDSQRL. And there was no mention of the white truck until sometime later.

I believe that there are people who have physic abilities, but not all people who claim to possess them are physic. So they may or may not be a reliable source.

I'm not going to mention any names, but there was a particular person (not the person you named) who posts on one of the physic sites that I read that I've wondered about whether they might have some sort of involvement. This individual is originally from Oregon, but left shortly after Kyron came up missing. I'm not sure if they already lived in another state and was visiting or moved right after this. My belief about Physic abilities is that a person who truly possesses this ability will know and sees where Kyron is will receive the information needed to locate him, and this information is not going to change from the beginning to the end to fit opinions. I have noticed that some who weren't sure in the beginning of Terri being involved, and who then begin to believe with others that she was, have begin to question whether she is involved.

Maat wrote:I am simply reporting that when the vehicles were first reported, the colors and styles of the vehicles were different. They bounced around and changed once people picked out Terri. The tag number was not in the initial police report from what I did read.

This is exasperating - you are NOT reading what I am writing!
The report was made to the COPS on June 4th including TAGS. No other posting or report AFTER that date should be considered reliable, but I think the report on June 4th, which DID include RDSQRL tag, is very reliable. It was made BEFORE anyone knew Kyron was missing.

I dont know how to put that point in clearer language for you.. I am exasperated

also it was made at around 11am on June 4th - again, before anyone knew Kyron was missing.
Yes, it took time for the cops to realize that they already HAD that report because at first it wasnt linked to the Kyron case. But once amareign told them they already had the report from June 4th, they were amazed, wide eyed, and immediately started searches there etc.

Snaz wrote:

purpleprincess wrote:Maat - is this a competition to find out how well we know this case? Cos if it is I think I beat you. I have been working on this case all day long since the day Kyron went missing, I have lots of connections to LE and first hand witnesses on the case and I am well aware that there are lots of POSTs about this.. I am quoting someone (amareign) who I know to be very reliable, I know she lives on the island, I know she and her neighbors reported this sighting to the police at 11am June 4th - BEFORE Kyron was known to be missing. Just because she posted weeks later, doesnt mean the report wasnt made that day!

I am tired of justifying myself here.. you arent going to change your viewpoint and I am not going to change mine. I am going to continue my research, I am wasting my time here.

BBM

Purpleprincess, maybe if you provide proof of these people that you "know to be reliable," then others can feel comfortable knowing your information is, indeed, reliable. If you are unable to provide this proof for whatever reason, well, hopefully you can understand why others may feel some skepticism regarding your information. It isn't really fair to ask others to just take your word for the information you consider to be reliable.

Gosh! I am starting to think my posts are being warped before you guys are reading them. I keep telling you Amareign is the "reliable source". I quoted her directly from the psychic board, I have also PMed her and so on about it. She lives on Sauvie Island, she is part of the neighborhood watch, she told me all the details and she confirmed all the other details with her neighbors. The cops went out and took full details from her and her neighbors. What are you not getting about this? Dont you consider that to be a reliable source?