Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

by Freckles Sat May 26, 2012 6:19 pm

Ellie Tza wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:I had only been able to find a tiny image of the Celis Home floorplan, so I made a larger one and included a few more details (street names and such). I hope this might be helpful to some of you.

After I went to all this trouble, pretty please use this better image of the floorplan! ;-P

You did an excellent job, too. I like the straight lines and the DOORS!

by Honeysage Sat May 26, 2012 6:45 pm

i found it interesting there was little information about Justin, though it could have just been left out. But Becky's brother Robert Snyder Rodriguez had his truck impounded and searched, took photos of his phone info., he was on scene early-his girlfriend admitted she had done dishes and cleaned up the kitchen (yeah i know people clean when nervous but DUH!-crime scene lady). maybe it was him that went to neighbor's and not Justin-supposedly JM has his own apt. why would they impound uncle's truck unless it was seen having been there through the night? Isa has too many uncles-confusing.

by Honeysage Sat May 26, 2012 7:18 pm

Robert Snyder Rodriguez is a PA at....you guessed it...TMC. graduated last year from Univ of Nebraska...was also in Army in Texas. his FB photos of graduation (last year) show Becky and Isa-i guess Sergio and the boys stayed home.

by ishi Sat May 26, 2012 7:22 pm

But Justin was at the graduation.

by Honeysage Sat May 26, 2012 7:46 pm

ishi wrote:But Justin was at the graduation.

reminds me of "the sidler" on Seinfeld...the guy that somehow is always next to you or behind you but you never hear him coming. Shocked

by SweetT Sat May 26, 2012 7:58 pm

I dont put too much into the blood on the drivers side seat of the car as women do have menstrual cycles and accidents do happen. Just sayin.

by ishi Sat May 26, 2012 8:12 pm

I have to give them credit for being a close family...as they appear to be just that if you look at the pics on the various Facebook pages. There was a camping trip last Dec (IIRC...I left all my print outs in my office so don't have my records with me) with the Celis family and Justin and his brother and Becky's brothers too. I rarely get to see my first cousins but they all seem to keep in touch and do things together. There was also a post by a friend on Robert's (Becky's brother) page once he was a PA asking him if he could write a doctor's note to help Justin out....that was after one of Justin's arrests for drugs.

by ecossie possie Sat May 26, 2012 10:09 pm

Sorry If this already posted but link to complete set off PDF documents released 500 pages..Is it normal for this to ocour when no one has been arrested ? http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18621086/550-pages-released-in-celis-case Also Sergio Cellis states he fell asleep on sofa an awoke at 6 am whereupon he joined his wife in bed..So basically he has no alibi or anyone to say where he was all night.

by ecossie possie Sat May 26, 2012 10:10 pm

And was there any mention in this release of documents about the alleged writtings by Isabella iin the closet walls?

by Honeysage Sat May 26, 2012 10:33 pm

ecossie possie wrote:And was there any mention in this release of documents about the alleged writtings by Isabella iin the closet walls?

A reporting officer wrote, "I took general views of the interior and exterior, I also took views of handwriting on the wall, doorjamb, and inside wall of the closet of the southeast bedroom."
http://www.kvoa.com/full-coverage/finding-isabel/

by snowbird Sat May 26, 2012 11:34 pm

Doesn't anybody think it is strange that the dad call baseball coach to say Isabel would not be at game that day because she was missing?

I just think that the baseball game would not even cross my mind if I have a child missing.

by nanaof4 Sat May 26, 2012 11:50 pm

snowbird wrote:Doesn't anybody think it is strange that the dad call baseball coach to say Isabel would not be at game that day because she was missing?

I just think that the baseball game would not even cross my mind if I have a child missing.

That struck me as odd. I could see him calling the coach and saying she was missing, but that particular verbiage is odd. I guess itcould be how he was processing the idea that she was missing or just not knowing how to tell people.

ETA: I wonder if he called before Rebecca got home or while LE was there questioning him? I would like to know the time of the call.

by snowbird Sun May 27, 2012 12:01 am

nanaof4 wrote:
snowbird wrote:Doesn't anybody think it is strange that the dad call baseball coach to say Isabel would not be at game that day because she was missing?

I just think that the baseball game would not even cross my mind if I have a child missing.

That struck me as odd. I could see him calling the coach and saying she was missing, but that particular verbiage is odd. I guess itcould be how he was processing the idea that she was missing or just not knowing how to tell people.

That could be true but I guess it struck me as really odd after hearing his 911 call and then listening to the mother and the poor 14 year old on the 911 calls. I even asked my husband if he thought he would have called our son's coach if he was missing and he would be able to make it to the game. Sometimes men and women handle things differently, well he look at me like I was nuts. Laughing

by Freckles Sun May 27, 2012 12:03 am

snowbird wrote:Doesn't anybody think it is strange that the dad call baseball coach to say Isabel would not be at game that day because she was missing?

I just think that the baseball game would not even cross my mind if I have a child missing.

We don't know what time she was to have reported for the game, do we?
IMo, it would have been more normal for the father to have called the coach and ASKED if he had picked the child up for the game. If the coach said no, I would have started calling EVERY team member and asked if she had been picked up by another team player. While I was doing this, one son would have been checking the yard, neighborhood and the other would have been looking for her uniform and shoes.

Then, I would have called 911.

Do we know if any of her shoes/sandals are missing? The uniform? Stuffed animals, dolls, blankets? The glove?

by snowbird Sun May 27, 2012 12:11 am

When would he have called the coach? He was getting her up to go to the games, he finds she missing, searches calls , calls his wife and then calls 911. The police where there pretty quickly according to the calls. Then according to the reports they had then not discuss the case with each other or any one else so they could be questioned. That was in one of the police reports sorry don't know what page. Anyhoo, it just seemed strange with everything else that was going on.

by Honeysage Sun May 27, 2012 12:12 am

Freckles wrote:
snowbird wrote:Doesn't anybody think it is strange that the dad call baseball coach to say Isabel would not be at game that day because she was missing?

I just think that the baseball game would not even cross my mind if I have a child missing.
We don't know what time she was to have reported for the game, do we?
IMo, it would have been more normal for the father to have called the coach and ASKED if he had picked the child up for the game. If the coach said no, I would have started calling EVERY team member and asked if she had been picked up by another team player. While I was doing this, one son would have been checking the yard, neighborhood and the other would have been looking for her uniform and shoes.

Then, I would have called 911.

Do we know if any of her shoes/sandals are missing? The uniform? Stuffed animals, dolls, blankets? The glove?

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/as-tips-keep-coming-police-end-up-scouring-areas-again/article_02d26325-2055-5801-8649-4f15b2313ff7.html[quote]

Isabel was expected at Freedom Park at 9 a.m. for a baseball game the morning she disappeared.

by snowbird Sun May 27, 2012 12:15 am

Freckles wrote:
snowbird wrote:Doesn't anybody think it is strange that the dad call baseball coach to say Isabel would not be at game that day because she was missing?

I just think that the baseball game would not even cross my mind if I have a child missing.
We don't know what time she was to have reported for the game, do we?
IMo, it would have been more normal for the father to have called the coach and ASKED if he had picked the child up for the game. If the coach said no, I would have started calling EVERY team member and asked if she had been picked up by another team player. While I was doing this, one son would have been checking the yard, neighborhood and the other would have been looking for her uniform and shoes.

Then, I would have called 911.

Do we know if any of her shoes/sandals are missing? The uniform? Stuffed animals, dolls, blankets? The glove?

Glad to see you.
He did not call to see if she was there or if anyone picked her up. He called to say she would not make the game today because she was missing. With everything going on that moment, It just seem odd to my to notify a coach that your child was going to miss baseball game.

by snowbird Sun May 27, 2012 12:17 am

[quote="Honeysage"]

Freckles wrote:
snowbird wrote:Doesn't anybody think it is strange that the dad call baseball coach to say Isabel would not be at game that day because she was missing?

I just think that the baseball game would not even cross my mind if I have a child missing.
We don't know what time she was to have reported for the game, do we?
IMo, it would have been more normal for the father to have called the coach and ASKED if he had picked the child up for the game. If the coach said no, I would have started calling EVERY team member and asked if she had been picked up by another team player. While I was doing this, one son would have been checking the yard, neighborhood and the other would have been looking for her uniform and shoes.

Then, I would have called 911.

Do we know if any of her shoes/sandals are missing? The uniform? Stuffed animals, dolls, blankets? The glove?

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/as-tips-keep-coming-police-end-up-scouring-areas-again/article_02d26325-2055-5801-8649-4f15b2313ff7.html

Isabel was expected at Freedom Park at 9 a.m. for a baseball game the morning she disappeared.

Do you remember what time the police got to home?

by Honeysage Sun May 27, 2012 12:19 am

[quote="snowbird"]

Honeysage wrote:
Freckles wrote:
snowbird wrote:Doesn't anybody think it is strange that the dad call baseball coach to say Isabel would not be at game that day because she was missing?

I just think that the baseball game would not even cross my mind if I have a child missing.
We don't know what time she was to have reported for the game, do we?
IMo, it would have been more normal for the father to have called the coach and ASKED if he had picked the child up for the game. If the coach said no, I would have started calling EVERY team member and asked if she had been picked up by another team player. While I was doing this, one son would have been checking the yard, neighborhood and the other would have been looking for her uniform and shoes.

Then, I would have called 911.

Do we know if any of her shoes/sandals are missing? The uniform? Stuffed animals, dolls, blankets? The glove?

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/as-tips-keep-coming-police-end-up-scouring-areas-again/article_02d26325-2055-5801-8649-4f15b2313ff7.html

Isabel was expected at Freedom Park at 9 a.m. for a baseball game the morning she disappeared.
Do you remember what time the police got to home?

officers arrived on scene at 8:20am

by Freckles Sun May 27, 2012 12:21 am

Thanks for the game time, Honey.

Snowbird said: "Glad to see you.
He did not call to see if she was there or if anyone picked her up. He called to say she would not make the game today because she was missing. With everything going on that moment, It just seem odd to my to notify a coach that your child was going to miss baseball game."

Well, if my child had a game and was missing from the home shortly before the game, I would wonder if POSSIBLY she had taken a ride with another parent/coach and the arrangements had either not been told to me or I had forgotten but the child remembered.

I DO think it was presumptive of the father to tell that to the coach when one would think the father did not have enough information at that time. I mean, How did he know the child wasn't in the yard? Or at some mysterious store he had just sent his son out to?

by Tamta Sun May 27, 2012 12:25 am

Any photos of screen in docs?

Photos or mentioning of garbage cans?

Not 100% done reading here yet.

by Honeysage Sun May 27, 2012 12:26 am

Tamta wrote:Any photos of screen in docs?

Not 100% done reading here yet.

nope-no photos of anything, any photo on doc has been blacked out.

by snowbird Sun May 27, 2012 12:26 am

I don't remember a time that he called the coach, however it could have been one of those bits of information blacked out.

by Freckles Sun May 27, 2012 12:26 am

I would like more info on who was in the house that night,
what time they each went to bed, etc.. It just does not make sense the father supposedly falling asleep, waking to crawl into bed ext to his wife, falling asleep again; not hearing barking dogs, two men's voices, a screen being removed, or a child being lifted from her bed while the father slept with his head on the adjoining wall. No sense. (And he asked his sons, who were up late, to keep the noise down??? This man appears to be able to sleep though anything.)

by Calypso Sun May 27, 2012 12:32 am

snowbird wrote:Doesn't anybody think it is strange that the dad call baseball coach to say Isabel would not be at game that day because she was missing?

I just think that the baseball game would not even cross my mind if I have a child missing.

No, because he was trying to get the word out Isabel was missing.

Sports was a big part of their lives.

by snowbird Sun May 27, 2012 12:38 am

I wish someone could make a time line of what we do know so far. This is when I miss the Hinky Meter. Like time he went to sleep, woke up went to bed with wife. When neighbor hear men voices and dogs barking. Stuff like than I am getting the time of what happen when confused in my mind. Maybe I will try to work on something but don't know if I would be any good.

by Tamta Sun May 27, 2012 12:45 am

Freckles wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.
Actually, there are how many doors exiting the house? If she was not taken through the window (assuming that was a stage) she could have been taken from the front door. But that could be too highly visible. What about exiting from the back porch area? From there, it would not be that difficult to place her in a vehicle parked just inside a gate--- pull the car in through the gate, shut the gate; place child in vehicle;
exit property' shut gate.

What is important, for me, are these things:
-- Neighbor hears two men speaking early in the AM
--Dogs barking although SV or BV says THEIR dogs were not barking; neighbor says they were.
--Justin: Where was he?
--SV: According to the report, he put Isobel to bed. He asked the boys to quiet down.
SV then watched TV until (?? What time was that? 4:30 or 5:30 ??) early in the AM.

He let the two boys stay up until all hours yet put the girl abed? A ten year old and a fourteen year old? According to SV, the boys were still up around midnight.

--Becky: Stated after they got home she did Isobel's hair. I am guessing this was after the showers? Ok. So Isobel pops in for a shower. Her hair has to be dried because it is long and it is bed time. So Becky dries Isobel's hair and braids it. This takes time. What time did Isobel get home, take a shower, have her hair dried, have her hair done, and finally go to bed? Dad says Isobel went to bed at 11 PM. (SV asked her if she wanted something to eat and she declined. Went to the bed to go to sleep. )

Does this fit a time line?

For me the morning timeline would hold the most indicators as to whether or not this was an inside or outside job, and if it was a accidental or result of neglect or abuse.

First of all, i will say that I think it would be easy to break in through that window.
However there should be evidence of that somewhere.
Either there isnt any or it has been redacted.

The red car is in the front of the house facing the street.

I can not see the front access being used to remove Isabel.
It seems more probable to use the gate to access side street or back alley.
Lesser chance of detection.

I think she was taken out of the house through way of the back porch.

Unless there was a vehicle in the driveway pulled up next to the gate in the adobe wall accessing their front door and yard.

by snowbird Sun May 27, 2012 12:59 am

Tamta wrote:
Freckles wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.
Actually, there are how many doors exiting the house? If she was not taken through the window (assuming that was a stage) she could have been taken from the front door. But that could be too highly visible. What about exiting from the back porch area? From there, it would not be that difficult to place her in a vehicle parked just inside a gate--- pull the car in through the gate, shut the gate; place child in vehicle;
exit property' shut gate.

What is important, for me, are these things:
-- Neighbor hears two men speaking early in the AM
--Dogs barking although SV or BV says THEIR dogs were not barking; neighbor says they were.
--Justin: Where was he?
--SV: According to the report, he put Isobel to bed. He asked the boys to quiet down.
SV then watched TV until (?? What time was that? 4:30 or 5:30 ??) early in the AM.

He let the two boys stay up until all hours yet put the girl abed? A ten year old and a fourteen year old? According to SV, the boys were still up around midnight.

--Becky: Stated after they got home she did Isobel's hair. I am guessing this was after the showers? Ok. So Isobel pops in for a shower. Her hair has to be dried because it is long and it is bed time. So Becky dries Isobel's hair and braids it. This takes time. What time did Isobel get home, take a shower, have her hair dried, have her hair done, and finally go to bed? Dad says Isobel went to bed at 11 PM. (SV asked her if she wanted something to eat and she declined. Went to the bed to go to sleep. )

Does this fit a time line?

For me the morning timeline would hold the most indicators as to whether or not this was an inside or outside job, and if it was a accidental or result of neglect or abuse.

First of all, i will say that I think it would be easy to break in through that window.
However there should be evidence of that somewhere.
Either there isnt any or it has been redacted.

The red car is in the front of the house facing the street.

I can not see the front access being used to remove Isabel.
It seems more probable to use the gate to access side street or back alley.
Lesser chance of detection.

I think she was taken out of the house through way of the back porch.

Unless there was a vehicle in the driveway pulled up next to the gate in the adobe wall accessing their front door and yard.

That is what I was thinking about the morning outline, there is something that is really bothering me and I can't put my finger on it. It could be nothing other then I have these times jumbled up in my mind. Might night be until Wednesday for me because of the holiday.

by Freckles Sun May 27, 2012 1:09 am

How should we do a time line?
List the time on the left side, then the event, and the citation under it?

by Tamta Sun May 27, 2012 1:13 am

Freckles wrote:How should we do a time line?
List the time on the left side, then the event, and the citation under it?

Simple is best. geek

by Freckles Sun May 27, 2012 1:22 am

Tamta wrote:
Freckles wrote:How should we do a time line?
List the time on the left side, then the event, and the citation under it?

Simple is best.

Needs documentation, though. We need to pull links.

by Freckles Sun May 27, 2012 1:28 am

Here is the base form:
4/19/12 EVENT LINK

6 PM
7 PM
8 PM
9 PM
10 PM
11 PM
12 PM

4/20/12
1 AM
2 AM
3 AM
4 AM
5 AM
6 AM
7 AM
8 AM
9 AM
10 AM
11 AM
12 AM

1 PM
2 PM
3 PM
4 PM
5 PM
6 PM

by sitemama Sun May 27, 2012 1:45 am

Do you know how the furniture was arranged in Isa's bedroom and the den? If dad was asleep in den, he could have been on the other side of the room from her wall. What I don't understand, is the door from Isa's bedroom into the bathroom, but no door for the other bedroom to the bathroom. Did the boys have to go into her room to go to the bathroom? That is a weird layout. Also, the bathroom just inside the garage! Could that be a laundry room instead of a bathroom?

The master bath is larger than the kid's bedrooms and the den. They have a den, livingroom (which I think the right side is a diningroom) and a family room.

It also looks like there are only 2 doors from the house, the front door and the familyroom to the porch. It doesn't show a separate door from the garage like most houses here have, just the large garage door.

by Calypso Sun May 27, 2012 4:44 am

Has anyone come across a list of friends/family who were called on the morning of 4-20 prior to police arrival?

by Freckles Sun May 27, 2012 4:51 am

Ellie Tza wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:I had only been able to find a tiny image of the Celis Home floorplan, so I made a larger one and included a few more details (street names and such). I hope this might be helpful to some of you.

After I went to all this trouble, pretty please use this better image of the floorplan! ;-P

Bringing this forward.

by Ann - Tx Sun May 27, 2012 6:08 am

Ellie Tza, great job on the floor plan! Thanks for all of the time you spent in developing this useful floor plan.

Freckles, thanks for bumping it.

by Calypso Sun May 27, 2012 7:09 am

We cant cut and paste off those documents? Man!

(Fart noise!)

by Calypso Sun May 27, 2012 7:20 am

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/link/563522/pdf-celis-1-blood-on-seat-testimony-from-neighbor

Page 62; second to last paragraph:
SNIPPED

She told me one of her sons has _______. I asked if he was capable of harming ______ and she said he was not. I am not certain if she was referring to Sergio or _____.

Me: This bothers me. Why wasn't there clarification done on this, meaning- why didnt the cop who was interviewing Rebeca pin her down for a straight answer, why is there a question in the cop's mind of "who" Rebeca was talking about instead of an answer in this report?

by Tamta Sun May 27, 2012 8:56 am

Calypso wrote:http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/link/563522/pdf-celis-1-blood-on-seat-testimony-from-neighbor

Page 62; second to last paragraph:
SNIPPED

She told me one of her sons has _______. I asked if he was capable of harming ______ and she said he was not. I am not certain if she was referring to Sergio or _____.

Me: This bothers me. Why wasn't there clarification done on this, meaning- why didnt the cop who was interviewing Rebeca pin her down for a straight answer, why is there a question in the cop's mind of "who" Rebeca was talking about instead of an answer in this report?

I feel the same.

I posted this on Friday night for the same reason as you.

by Calypso Sun May 27, 2012 8:59 am

Tamta wrote:
Calypso wrote:http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/link/563522/pdf-celis-1-blood-on-seat-testimony-from-neighbor

Page 62; second to last paragraph:
SNIPPED

She told me one of her sons has _______. I asked if he was capable of harming ______ and she said he was not. I am not certain if she was referring to Sergio or _____.

Me: This bothers me. Why wasn't there clarification done on this, meaning- why didnt the cop who was interviewing Rebeca pin her down for a straight answer, why is there a question in the cop's mind of "who" Rebeca was talking about instead of an answer in this report?

I feel the same.

I posted this on Friday night for the same reason as you.

You know what they say about "great minds"~ Very Happy

by Tamta Sun May 27, 2012 11:10 am

RE: The Shower Curtain

BBM

IT was tested for blood.
Results redacted from report.
No results reported for other substances on the shower curtain (though sounds as if they did search for other substances just not first, 'immediately').

A white hat and a green vinyl shower curtain with "dark red-brown or brown stains" were found in a 1988 Acura parked on the Celis property, reports show.

The shower curtain stain was tested for blood, but those results were redacted in the report released Thursday night.

Police did not immediately search for other stains on the shower curtain.

"It was decided to keep the item close to its original condition and allow crime lab personnel to screen the shower curtain for possible evidence, if deemed necessary," the report says.

More at link.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/police-collected-varied-evidence-in-disappearance/article_4a09bac3-bb6e-5c36-8850-9f0e1b65882a.html

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http://www.realitychatter.com/viewtopic.forum?t=3874

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