Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Stolat wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Stolat wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Stolat wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:Stolat- At the time Sierra disappeared she did not have an after school sports activity that would require a change of clothing. Marlene was asked on Nancy Grace if Sierra had practice after school (because NG is remembering when she was young and a cheerleader). Marlene said Sierra did not have any activities. I do not have a link. I searched the transcript and of course it is missing. I recall the question because of Nancy's sidebar comment.

I was postulating that Marlene did not need Sierra's cell phone to place calls to Sierra's friends on the day she disappeared. Marlene most likely had contacts for the mothers of the girls on her most recent squad and even her squad from Fremont. I also remember on AMW, Marlene mentioned she was at one time a PTA mom. I think it is feasible Marlene had her own contacts for Sierra's friends when she started looking for her that day.

Transcription from Kimi_SFC-

JW: Cops zeroed in on Sierra’s family first; and for good reason. Sierra’s dad, Steve LaMar, volunteered some disturbing information early on. Steve is a registered sex offender.

ML: We were still married; but at that time, I was focused on the kids, and being the PTA mom, and on my career. We were drifting before that, way before that. (ML off camera until now). I don’t want to go into details about that situation or the case because…the issue at hand is Sierra right now.

Thanks Stolat and Lash.

About after school activities, I got confused with the uncle's anecdote referencing February.

I most definitely think that Marlene would have some numbers for Sierra's friends in her possession. It seems, in regard to Freemont based friends, that those friendships were in Sierra's life for some time. Playdates and older kid activities that need transport coordination would definitely demand that parents have a couple of numbers anyway I would think.

I remember that NG where Marlene said no about Sierra having somewhere to go after school. I think it was the "bombshell" episode where, at least NG learns that, the Juicy bag was placed not thrown.

I *still* don't get where the bag figures in. Sure, there are ideas floating all over the place but nothing that really sticks solid. Nothing that satisfies and makes me go "ahhh". It just bugs me. It's elusive.

The bag is extremely important in this case.

For me, it's the obstruction to being able to feel confident about this particular suspect.

It defies physics.
It confuses scenarios in my mind.

It defies logic that a perp who is taking someone against their will from
The get go would place to conceal those items prior ir subsequent to committing the crime.
And leaving behind damning evidence.
I can't accept that assertion as a supposition.

Why weren't books scattered and bag disposed of with Sierra?
When did her clothes get removed and why?
Where is the make up and her shoes?

This fact alone makes me question the DNA evidence, which I learned yesterday, is anything but conclusive in terms of identifying Torres as the responsible individual.

The Placemnet of the items and the fact that they contained the neatly folded clothing Sierra wore that day does not conclusively point to an abduction and potential sexual homicide.

These bag to me is very much indicative of the circumstances surrounding what happened to Sierra.

One thing we know for sure - we know that we don't know for sure that she wore those clothes that day.

No one saw her with those clothes on. We can deduct by the associative theory -- A leads to B leads to C, etc. But we don't know. We *think* Torres was with Sierra that day based on DNA evidence. We *know* the clothes belong to Sierra based on DNA evidence (and Marlene). We *don't think* Torres was with Sierra on a different day. Torre's DNA is *most likely* the DNA on Sierra's clothes. Therefore we *think* those are the only clothes Sierra had in her possession that day - therefore we assume those were the clothes Sierra had on - the clothes she left with.

I'm somewhat ok with that assumption. But because that bag troubles me so, I'm not okay with ruling out the notion that there may be another set of clothes -- intended for that day.[i]

The clothes being worn by her and discovered clearly lead the imagination to consider added scenario of sexual assault(motive) and evidence of his associating with her.

Right now, I think the bag with clothes are important in influencing public opinion And maybe were important to the perp who may have intended to derail LE by making it seem equally plausible that she willingly intended to leave the house and not possibly go to school.

No players in this case need to commit to these clothes being worn by her really unless the powerful evidence of her murder is on these clothes, then they are important because the case against Torres is based upon his murdering Sierra.

The human mind will do it automatically until instructed directly by the judge that they can not.

I have definitely entertained the idea that the importance of the clothes placed there was to mislead others into thinking her departure was voluntary. Just not sure yet.

We have been told that skin fragments were "embedded" into the clothing. They used that word specificially. I would like to know the significance of that word used to describe the deposite of skin. Does "embedded" imply force? Does it imply that the mere brushing of skin is not sufficient enough to deposite the skin in the manner described - that it has to have more force applied - a struggle? How does skin get "embedded" into material? Is that a term common to forensic analysis?

BBM

'skin fragments'

In my mind this could also be 'tissue'.


it does not have to be external tissue, like skin from an arm or shoulder.

it could be internal tissue: like from the cheek or from an organ for example.

we do not have any specifics.

Possible Skin Fragment Evidence is Found in Incomplete Fingerprints



http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=040E5BCE0F2AF1EE942877FF295AECCB.journals?fromPage=online&aid=5914528

Tamta wrote:Possible Skin Fragment Evidence is Found in Incomplete Fingerprints



http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=040E5BCE0F2AF1EE942877FF295AECCB.journals?fromPage=online&aid=5914528

Ok. So how do you read this?

Presumption of a suspect based on the skin fragment attached the rope

Abstract

An eight-year-old girl (second-year of elementary school) was strangled in an irrigation canal near her house and was left unconscious. The body of a male who hanged himself to death was discovered on the next day. The hanging mark on the neck of the man and the ligature mark on the neck of the girl were caused by double nooses of a rope, the width of the rope mark was nearly the same, and similar Zwischenkammblutung (subcutaneous bleeding in the middle of the rope mark) was observed in both cases. Therefore, we evaluated whether the marks were caused by the same rope. As a result, the DNA type of the skin fragment (keratinized epithelial cells) attached to the rope used by the man to hang himself was identical to that of the girl. On the basis of this evidence, the man who hanged himself to death was presumed to be the suspect who strangled the girl.



http://www.legalmedicinejournal.com/article/S1344-6223(99)80030-3/abstract

Freckles wrote:

Tamta wrote:Possible Skin Fragment Evidence is Found in Incomplete Fingerprints



http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=040E5BCE0F2AF1EE942877FF295AECCB.journals?fromPage=online&aid=5914528

Ok. So how do you read this?

The abstract didn't open???

Tamta wrote:

Freckles wrote:

Tamta wrote:Possible Skin Fragment Evidence is Found in Incomplete Fingerprints



http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=040E5BCE0F2AF1EE942877FF295AECCB.journals?fromPage=online&aid=5914528

Ok. So how do you read this?

The abstract didn't open???

nope-i clicked on everything.

Varsha Subramaniam, AMST 2013

Genetic Identification Using Skin Fragments left on Latent Fingerprints

Snipped Abstract

Short Tandem Repeats (STR) markers are genetic markers that are used in human identity testing by the method of multiplex Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR). The assays measure the length of the PCR product and compare it to the sequenced allelic ladder. The STRs are highly polymorphic and can be used to type from very little template material. As in all forensic situations, the sample DNA to be tested undergoes varying level of degradation due to bacterial, biochemical or oxidative process and there are additional contaminants from the environment that has mixed in with the sample. Loss of signal is common outcome when using STR markers for such samples. Recently, using smaller sized PCR products from STR markers (called mini STRs), generated by moving the primers in as close to the STR repeat region as possible, has been shown to be more successful with degraded samples. It has been shown that human cells can be recovered from latent fingerprints. The DNA in these cells is expected to be in various stages of degradation. The current investigation is geared towards using miniSTRs to generate DNA fingerprinting profile from cells recovered from such latent fingerprints. As a first step towards this goal, the sensitivity of miniSTR s on the amount of DNA from invitro cultured human breast-cancer cells (MCF-7) was tested. Results show that PCR with a mini STR primer, D7S820, can amplify from samples that contain approximately 1 picogram of template DNA. Similar analyses are performed at other miniSTR loci, and samples are being tested from various simulated forensic environments.

http://bcts.bergen.org/index.php/student-projects

Honeysage wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Freckles wrote:

Tamta wrote:Possible Skin Fragment Evidence is Found in Incomplete Fingerprints



http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=040E5BCE0F2AF1EE942877FF295AECCB.journals?fromPage=online&aid=5914528

Ok. So how do you read this?

The abstract didn't open???

nope-i clicked on everything.

I tried to use this blogger citation thing.
The link with in the publication did not work and apparently the blogger tool did not either.

I am looking for more.
Hold on.

Fingerprints as Evidence for a Genetic Profile: Morphological Study on Fingerprints and Analysis of Exogenous and Individual Factors Affecting DNA Typing


ABSTRACT: Material recovered from 374 fingerprints left by eleven laboratory workers on three different substrates (glass, wood, metal) at a standard pressure time of 30 s, with and without preliminary handwashing, was submitted to morphological, quantitative, and type analysis. Mor- phological and agarose-gel electrophoresis analysis showed that a non-negligible amount of epidermal corneal cells presented apoptotic alterations. The quantity of DNA recovered from fingerprints ranged between 0.04 to 0.2 ng, and in a significant number of experiments no DNA was detected. Handwashing reduced the amount of DNA recovered from fingerprints. The “shedder status” of the donor was a very important factor, causing in- ter-individual variations in the amount of DNA left by fingerprints. Spurious alleles from laboratory-based and secondary transfer contamination, stutters, and other artifacts described when analyzing low-copy-number DNA and capable of affecting correct profiles were observed.

Full Article @ Link

http://www.hartnell.cc.ca.us/faculty/jhughey/Files/fingerprintDNAextraction.pdf

Tamta wrote:Possible Skin Fragment Evidence is Found in Incomplete Fingerprints



http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=040E5BCE0F2AF1EE942877FF295AECCB.journals?fromPage=online&aid=5914528

Here is the info from the link Tamta posted:

I put my LIRN access from school to good use! Here are print screens of the Full-PDF of the article:

Finally, the text version (Adobe wasn't cooperating, sorry for the delay!):

[Possible Skin Fragment Evidence is Found in Incomplete Fingerprints
A. Villena,* A. Calabro,** D. Becker,** J.Morales***
* Bergen County Technical High School, Law and Justice Department, 504 Rt. 46 West, Teterboro,
NJ 07608
** Bergen County Academies, Microscopy Laboratory, 200 Hackensack Avenue, Hackensack, NJ
07601
*** City College of New York, Electron Microscopy Facility, 160 Convent Avenue, New York, NY
10031
Latent fingerprints are chance or accidental impressions left by friction of skin ridges on a given
surface. Incomplete prints may be in inadmissible as evidence, limiting their usefulness in forensic
science. We have conducted observations by scanning electron microscopy to determine if skin
fragments may be found in incomplete fingerprints. Such skin fragments may be used as a source of
DNA for genetic identification.
Prior to making a fingerprint, hands were washed and dried off with a paper towel. The substrate
(aluminum or glass slide) was cleaned with alcohol, dried with Kimwipes and dusted off with
pressurized gas (DustOff). The right thumb was then pressed against a 25 mm aluminum SEM stub
or a glass slide. Prints made on aluminum pins were observed without any coating at 2 kV in high
vacuum mode. Prints made on glass slides were carbon coated and observed in high vacuum mode
at 30 kV. An FEI Quanta 200 3D SEM was used to obtain secondary electron micrographs. As a
control, small pieces (1mm) of skin were mounted on SEM pins with carbon tape and observed,
uncoated at 30 kV.
Observations made of prints show the presence of oil droplets along the skin ridge imprint (Fig.1AD)
and the presence of particles (Fig. 1C-E) along the ridges. These particles (Fig. 1C-E) are similar
in morphology to control skin fragments (Fig. 1F and G). The flattened morphology of the particles
found in prints (Fig. 2C-E) is consistent with the flattened morphology of squamous epithelial cells
known to be present on the skin surface (Fig. 1F-G). Although, charging could have been
eliminated by working in low vacuum mode, we found that charging was helpful in making the
particles or skin fragments more identifiable. Some of the skin fragments found in prints were as
long as 67 um (Fig 2E). Similar results were obtained from prints made on glass slides (results not
shown).
Fingerprints have already been used as potential sources of DNA for genetic identification (Balogh
et al, 2003). The collection of microscopic skin fragments from fingerprints followed by DNA
fingerprinting could help law enforcement and forensic scientists link a particular suspect to a crime,
even if the print is incomplete and/or smudged.
Cited Reference:
M.K. Galogh, J. Burger, K.Bender, P.M. Schneider, K.W. Alt, 2003. STR genotyping and mtDNA
sequencing of latent fingerprint on paper. Forensic Science International 136:188-195.
Microsc Microanal 15(Suppl 2), 2009
doi: 10.1017/S1431927609099401 Copyright 2009 Microscopy Society of America
620/



FIG. 1. Secondary electron micrographs of a fingerprint (A-E) and a skin fragment (F-G). Panels A
and B are low magnification images of a partial fingerprint, notice the impressions made by skin
ridges. At higher magnifications fragments of skin may be observed along the impressions made by
skin ridges (C-E). All specimens were observed in high vacuum mode without metal or carbon
coating. Charging is a desirable artifact in this case since it helps locate skin fragments along the
ridges.

I paid enough for school, and wasn't about to drop $45 for just one article
ETA: It took a little sleuthing and negotiation with my Adobe Reader. I hope the effort helps the cause!

[u]

kimi_SFC wrote:

Tamta wrote:Possible Skin Fragment Evidence is Found in Incomplete Fingerprints



http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=040E5BCE0F2AF1EE942877FF295AECCB.journals?fromPage=online&aid=5914528

Here is the info from the link Tamta posted:

I put my LIRN access from school to good use! Here are print screens of the Full-PDF of the article:

Finally, the text version (Adobe wasn't cooperating, sorry for the delay!):

[Possible Skin Fragment Evidence is Found in Incomplete Fingerprints
A. Villena,* A. Calabro,** D. Becker,** J.Morales***
* Bergen County Technical High School, Law and Justice Department, 504 Rt. 46 West, Teterboro,
NJ 07608
** Bergen County Academies, Microscopy Laboratory, 200 Hackensack Avenue, Hackensack, NJ
07601
*** City College of New York, Electron Microscopy Facility, 160 Convent Avenue, New York, NY
10031
Latent fingerprints are chance or accidental impressions left by friction of skin ridges on a given
surface. Incomplete prints may be in inadmissible as evidence, limiting their usefulness in forensic
science. We have conducted observations by scanning electron microscopy to determine if skin
fragments may be found in incomplete fingerprints. Such skin fragments may be used as a source of
DNA for genetic identification.
Prior to making a fingerprint, hands were washed and dried off with a paper towel. The substrate
(aluminum or glass slide) was cleaned with alcohol, dried with Kimwipes and dusted off with
pressurized gas (DustOff). The right thumb was then pressed against a 25 mm aluminum SEM stub
or a glass slide. Prints made on aluminum pins were observed without any coating at 2 kV in high
vacuum mode. Prints made on glass slides were carbon coated and observed in high vacuum mode
at 30 kV. An FEI Quanta 200 3D SEM was used to obtain secondary electron micrographs. As a
control, small pieces (1mm) of skin were mounted on SEM pins with carbon tape and observed,
uncoated at 30 kV.
Observations made of prints show the presence of oil droplets along the skin ridge imprint (Fig.1AD)
and the presence of particles (Fig. 1C-E) along the ridges. These particles (Fig. 1C-E) are similar
in morphology to control skin fragments (Fig. 1F and G). The flattened morphology of the particles
found in prints (Fig. 2C-E) is consistent with the flattened morphology of squamous epithelial cells
known to be present on the skin surface (Fig. 1F-G). Although, charging could have been
eliminated by working in low vacuum mode, we found that charging was helpful in making the
particles or skin fragments more identifiable. Some of the skin fragments found in prints were as
long as 67 um (Fig 2E). Similar results were obtained from prints made on glass slides (results not
shown).
Fingerprints have already been used as potential sources of DNA for genetic identification (Balogh
et al, 2003). The collection of microscopic skin fragments from fingerprints followed by DNA
fingerprinting could help law enforcement and forensic scientists link a particular suspect to a crime,
even if the print is incomplete and/or smudged.
Cited Reference:
M.K. Galogh, J. Burger, K.Bender, P.M. Schneider, K.W. Alt, 2003. STR genotyping and mtDNA
sequencing of latent fingerprint on paper. Forensic Science International 136:188-195.
Microsc Microanal 15(Suppl 2), 2009
doi: 10.1017/S1431927609099401 Copyright 2009 Microscopy Society of America
620/



FIG. 1. Secondary electron micrographs of a fingerprint (A-E) and a skin fragment (F-G). Panels A
and B are low magnification images of a partial fingerprint, notice the impressions made by skin
ridges. At higher magnifications fragments of skin may be observed along the impressions made by
skin ridges (C-E). All specimens were observed in high vacuum mode without metal or carbon
coating. Charging is a desirable artifact in this case since it helps locate skin fragments along the
ridges.

I paid enough for school, and wasn't about to drop $45 for just one article
ETA: It took a little sleuthing and negotiation with my Adobe Reader. I hope the effort helps the cause!

[u]

Kimi you are the BEST.

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:Tamta - We also speculated at one time there may have been more than one purse. The larger juicy used as a book bag and maybe a smaller one used more as a purse for things like makeup.

yes!

More physical evidence please!!!!

Maybe a "smaller" purse is something they have also been looking for in the ponds, lakes, reservoirs, etc...There was an article recently quoting searchers and or divers about the directions they had been given.

An article about "Contact DNA testing" written by my favorite author Valhall.

Snip- http://web.archive.org/web/20110702071453/http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/09/27/caylee-anthony-case-contact-dna-testing/

Now, what Eikelenboom as well as other forensic scientists working in this area have been able to achieve is the production of profiles with as little as 20 epithelial cells, which is pretty amazing.  Eikelenboom’s work was instrumental in freeing an innocent man, Timothy Matthews, who was wrongfully imprisoned for the murder of Peggy Hettrick.  Now, one area that Eikelenboom appears to have an expertise in is applying profiling (i.e. criminal profiling) to the victim and the crime scene in order to determine where the best areas of the victim’s clothing, body and the surrounding objects may be contaminated with the perpetrator’s cells due to “forcible contact” during the commission of the crime.  In other words, he’s a bit of a cell whisperer, if you will.

But this is not something a good forensic scientist working with a good criminal profiler couldn’t work out in short order.  It’s an application of common sense and critical thinking.  The apparent manner in which the murder was carried out reveals the pressure points during the attack.  And those pressure points will be more likely to have higher numbers of skin cells left behind than an area that might be touched lightly by a passing acquaintance.  In addition, the texture of clothing, ridges, sharp-edges, etc. assist in capturing more epithelial cells.

Lash wrote:An article about "Contact DNA testing" written by my favorite author Valhall.

Snip- http://web.archive.org/web/20110702071453/http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/09/27/caylee-anthony-case-contact-dna-testing/

Now, what Eikelenboom as well as other forensic scientists working in this area have been able to achieve is the production of profiles with as little as 20 epithelial cells, which is pretty amazing.  Eikelenboom’s work was instrumental in freeing an innocent man, Timothy Matthews, who was wrongfully imprisoned for the murder of Peggy Hettrick.  Now, one area that Eikelenboom appears to have an expertise in is applying profiling (i.e. criminal profiling) to the victim and the crime scene in order to determine where the best areas of the victim’s clothing, body and the surrounding objects may be contaminated with the perpetrator’s cells due to “forcible contact” during the commission of the crime.  In other words, he’s a bit of a cell whisperer, if you will.

But this is not something a good forensic scientist working with a good criminal profiler couldn’t work out in short order.  It’s an application of common sense and critical thinking.  The apparent manner in which the murder was carried out reveals the pressure points during the attack.  And those pressure points will be more likely to have higher numbers of skin cells left behind than an area that might be touched lightly by a passing acquaintance.  In addition, the texture of clothing, ridges, sharp-edges, etc. assist in capturing more epithelial cells.

I'm glad you posted this!

Can't wait to get a grip on this aspect of forensics !

Lash wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:Tamta - We also speculated at one time there may have been more than one purse. The larger juicy used as a book bag and maybe a smaller one used more as a purse for things like makeup.

yes!

More physical evidence please!!!!

Maybe a "smaller" purse is something they have also been looking for in the ponds, lakes, reservoirs, etc...There was an article recently quoting searchers and or divers about the directions they had been given.

Considering how careful she was regarding her physical appearance I have a hard time believing that her cosmetics would not have a special place of their own.

Its been a while since I looked at her Twitter,(is it still public?) but I wonder if there are shots of her with another bag, like a back pack.

Riding on a bus with a heavy stack of loose books does baffle me.

Arraignment in Sierra LaMar case postponed to July


BBM

Jerome Nadler of Santa Clara County Superior Court granted a request by attorney Ken Mandel of the public defender's office to delay a formal arraignment until July 10.

Garcia-Torres is accused of murdering Sierra LaMar, who was last seen March 16 in her home in an unincorporated area near Morgan Hill. Although her body has not been found, authorities assume she is dead.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/05/31/BAN61OQL90.DTL#ixzz1wfn5SPaw

Skin fragments and prints:

IIRC, this may have been what I had heard about in the 1970s and the Hillside Strangler cases ? I believe this was a Swedish development used overseas successfully to ID perps. They had great success in obtaining prints/skin fragments (basic ABO blood system used then) on victims. LAPD tried to use it but with no success on the Hillside case.

DNA has become a most useful forensic tool.

I haven't contributed anything of value in a while to any of these cases, but I just want to say how impressed I am at the sleuthing done here. Thank you all for being so willing to inform and suspect and even speculate without being irresponsible and unjust.

I'm fully in awe of the collective knowledge and experience here on this forum, as I was at THM, and so appreciate what I'm able to learn from everyone's willingness to share what they know and assist those who are catching up.

Bless Sierra's heart, if she only knew what efforts total strangers are making, and what collaboration is taking place here in order to somehow locate her and give her (or, God forbid it, her remains) the respect and dignity she deserves.

Thank you all, even though I don't know Sierra, Isa, Mickey, or any of the others, for proving that people are still basically good and will put forth what they can offer for the good of another person.

Soprano1 wrote:I haven't contributed anything of value in a while to any of these cases, but I just want to say how impressed I am at the sleuthing done here. Thank you all for being so willing to inform and suspect and even speculate without being irresponsible and unjust.

I'm fully in awe of the collective knowledge and experience here on this forum, as I was at THM, and so appreciate what I'm able to learn from everyone's willingness to share what they know and assist those who are catching up.

Bless Sierra's heart, if she only knew what efforts total strangers are making, and what collaboration is taking place here in order to somehow locate her and give her (or, God forbid it, her remains) the respect and dignity she deserves.

Thank you all, even though I don't know Sierra, Isa, Mickey, or any of the others, for proving that people are still basically good and will put forth what they can offer for the good of another person.

Wish we had a like button casue you hid it right on the nail. It is hard for me to shuffle through it all so everyone else does the work and I try to catch up with their work.

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:Tamta - We also speculated at one time there may have been more than one purse. The larger juicy used as a book bag and maybe a smaller one used more as a purse for things like makeup.

yes!

More physical evidence please!!!!

Maybe a "smaller" purse is something they have also been looking for in the ponds, lakes, reservoirs, etc...There was an article recently quoting searchers and or divers about the directions they had been given.

Considering how careful she was regarding her physical appearance I have a hard time believing that her cosmetics would not have a special place of their own.

Its been a while since I looked at her Twitter,(is it still public?) but I wonder if there are shots of her with another bag, like a back pack.

Riding on a bus with a heavy stack of loose books does baffle me.

Color BBM

I am bringing this over from JQ's photo thread. It was discussed on the Sierra thread over the past week or so. Aubrey (SuperMod) caught (and posted screen shots below) this while viewing this video:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/sier...arges-16419472





You can view the post at JQ here:
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1533500&postcount=85

I won't get into the discussion they had there. You're more than welcome to have a look at the threads. I figured, why not post the pictures, link back everything and give credit where it's due (thank you Aubrey), and allow the posters here at RC to assess the images and video ourselves. A fresh perspective never hurts....

Your thoughts....?

kimi_SFC wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:Tamta - We also speculated at one time there may have been more than one purse. The larger juicy used as a book bag and maybe a smaller one used more as a purse for things like makeup.

yes!

More physical evidence please!!!!

Maybe a "smaller" purse is something they have also been looking for in the ponds, lakes, reservoirs, etc...There was an article recently quoting searchers and or divers about the directions they had been given.

Considering how careful she was regarding her physical appearance I have a hard time believing that her cosmetics would not have a special place of their own.

Its been a while since I looked at her Twitter,(is it still public?) but I wonder if there are shots of her with another bag, like a back pack.

Riding on a bus with a heavy stack of loose books does baffle me.

Color BBM

I am bringing this over from JQ's photo thread. It was discussed on the Sierra thread over the past week or so. Aubrey (SuperMod) caught (and posted screen shots below) this while viewing this video:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/sier...arges-16419472





You can view the post at JQ here:
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1533500&postcount=85

I won't get into the discussion they had there. You're more than welcome to have a look at the threads. I figured, why not post the pictures, link back everything and give credit where it's due (thank you Aubrey), and allow the posters here at RC to assess the images and video ourselves. A fresh perspective never hurts....

Your thoughts....?

Amazing find.

Is that really her stuff or items searchers discovered and collected as evidence?

pink cosmetic case?

There was a larger black hand bag, but I did not see any pink on it.

and there were several white items of clothing.

And it was thrown.

The way the video is edited, it seems that way. I am unable to embed the video onto the thread
The ABC video is dated 5/24/12, however, there's no way to know WHEN those images were taken.
Here's a mini-transcript of the video:
The reporter stated, "They spent Wednesday (I believe this was the day before his arraignment) methodically searching ponds and reservoirs hoping to find her alive."
@ (01:04 is where the screen shots appear) "But authorities say DNA evidence found on articles of Sierra LaMar's clothing, discarded with her purse, link the suspect with the victim."

link to video: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/sier...arges-16419472

kimi_SFC wrote:The way the video is edited, it seems that way. I am unable to embed the video onto the thread
The ABC video is dated 5/24/12, however, there's no way to know WHEN those images were taken.
Here's a mini-transcript of the video:
The reporter stated, "They spent Wednesday (I believe this was the day before his arraignment) methodically searching ponds and reservoirs hoping to find her alive."
@ (01:04 is where the screen shots appear) "But authorities say DNA evidence found on articles of Sierra LaMar's clothing, discarded with her purse, link the suspect with the victim."

link to video: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/sier...arges-16419472

Thank you.

I watched it a few times.

It seems natural to infer that those are her things however what is being shown does not match what we were told, nor does the manner and location of their placement.

Something to think about.

ENCODED EVIDENCE: DNA IN FORENSIC ANALYSIS
Mark A. Jobling* and Peter Gill‡

Abstract | Sherlock Holmes said “it has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important”, but never imagined that such a little thing, the DNA molecule, could become perhaps the most powerful single tool in the multifaceted fight against crime. Twenty years after the development of DNA fingerprinting, forensic DNA analysis is key to the conviction or exoneration of suspects and the identification of victims of crimes, accidents and disasters, driving the development of innovative methods in molecular genetics, statistics and the use of massive intelligence databases.

Full article @ link

http://www.denverda.org/DNA_Documents/NRGforensics.pdf

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_20778449/sierra-lamar-case-last-scheduled-water-search-set

Divers make one last search for Sierra LaMar


Monday's efforts at Uvas will be the last water search unless investigators receive new tips, authorities said.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/04/BAIQ1OSKSI.DTL#ixzz1wrzGkPdj

Last month the sheriff's office arrested a man in connection with Sierra's disappearance on suspicion of murder. Antolin Garcia Torres, 21, a grocery store worker whose DNA was found on Sierra's clothing in a bag tossed into a field two miles from her home, has been charged with murder by the Santa Clara County District Attorney's Office.


___________________________

I can not help but make a note of how the manner of her bag at discovery is described here. Has Mercury News always referred to Sierra's bag as tossed or placed? Just wondering.

http://www.mercurynews.com/sierra-lamar/ci_20778449/sierra-lamar-case-last-scheduled-water-search-set?source=rss

Divers check out reservoir sonar scan hits in search for Sierra LaMar

Sierra posted a photo of herself on a social media website at 7 a.m., and text-messaged a classmate at 7:11 a.m. to make plans to meet at school that day to compare their schoolwork and share makeup, according to the statement.

_____________________________
Could someone tell me to what website the photo was posted? I do not recall this.


http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/divers-check-out-reservoir-sonar-scan-hits-search-/nPLbN/

Last Formal Water Search for SIerra Lamar

video @ link

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Last-Water-Search-for-Sierra-LaMar-Today-157002605.html

Tamta wrote:Divers check out reservoir sonar scan hits in search for Sierra LaMar

Sierra posted a photo of herself on a social media website at 7 a.m., and text-messaged a classmate at 7:11 a.m. to make plans to meet at school that day to compare their schoolwork and share makeup, according to the statement.

_____________________________
Could someone tell me to what website the photo was posted? I do not recall this.


http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/divers-check-out-reservoir-sonar-scan-hits-search-/nPLbN/

well it wasn't her twitter or tumblr...i looked at those as they are public, so i assume it was her Facebook page which was set to private.

Honeysage wrote:

Tamta wrote:Divers check out reservoir sonar scan hits in search for Sierra LaMar

Sierra posted a photo of herself on a social media website at 7 a.m., and text-messaged a classmate at 7:11 a.m. to make plans to meet at school that day to compare their schoolwork and share makeup, according to the statement.

_____________________________
Could someone tell me to what website the photo was posted? I do not recall this.


http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/divers-check-out-reservoir-sonar-scan-hits-search-/nPLbN/

well it wasn't her twiiter or tumblr...i looked at those as they are public, so i assume it was her Facebook page which was set to private.

I thought she hated FB, and thought it was stupid and for old people?

I am surprised that she would have posted there actually.

Tamta wrote:

Honeysage wrote:

Tamta wrote:Divers check out reservoir sonar scan hits in search for Sierra LaMar

Sierra posted a photo of herself on a social media website at 7 a.m., and text-messaged a classmate at 7:11 a.m. to make plans to meet at school that day to compare their schoolwork and share makeup, according to the statement.

_____________________________
Could someone tell me to what website the photo was posted? I do not recall this.


http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/divers-check-out-reservoir-sonar-scan-hits-search-/nPLbN/

well it wasn't her twiiter or tumblr...i looked at those as they are public, so i assume it was her Facebook page which was set to private.

I thought she hated FB, and thought it was stupid and for old people?

I am surprised that she would have posted there actually.

According to JQ, this is the photo they're referring to:


The picture of Sierra in the SJSharks jersey / sweatshirt / top. What I can't confirm is to which site it was posted to.

Here is the link to the JQ post where the same question was posed:
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1547344&postcount=759
& the original JQ photo link can be found here:
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=552&pictureid=8497

Tamta wrote:

Honeysage wrote:

Tamta wrote:Divers check out reservoir sonar scan hits in search for Sierra LaMar

Sierra posted a photo of herself on a social media website at 7 a.m., and text-messaged a classmate at 7:11 a.m. to make plans to meet at school that day to compare their schoolwork and share makeup, according to the statement.

_____________________________
Could someone tell me to what website the photo was posted? I do not recall this.


http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/divers-check-out-reservoir-sonar-scan-hits-search-/nPLbN/

well it wasn't her twiiter or tumblr...i looked at those as they are public, so i assume it was her Facebook page which was set to private.

I thought she hated FB, and thought it was stupid and for old people?

I am surprised that she would have posted there actually.

LE has never told us anything definitive about that photo being posted to any social media...Marlene said on NG that it was taken before Sierra would normally leave for the bus stop...beyond that i think it's just media misreporting.

@Honeysage,
You just reminded me that LE actually never confirmed the date of the pic I just posted.
Eeeek...
Well, at least we know what photo is being discussed in the linked KTVU article.
Sorry about that y'all....

kimi_SFC wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Honeysage wrote:

Tamta wrote:Divers check out reservoir sonar scan hits in search for Sierra LaMar

Sierra posted a photo of herself on a social media website at 7 a.m., and text-messaged a classmate at 7:11 a.m. to make plans to meet at school that day to compare their schoolwork and share makeup, according to the statement.

_____________________________
Could someone tell me to what website the photo was posted? I do not recall this.


http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/divers-check-out-reservoir-sonar-scan-hits-search-/nPLbN/

well it wasn't her twiiter or tumblr...i looked at those as they are public, so i assume it was her Facebook page which was set to private.

I thought she hated FB, and thought it was stupid and for old people?

I am surprised that she would have posted there actually.

According to JQ, this is the photo they're referring to:


The picture of Sierra in the SJSharks jersey / sweatshirt / top. What I can't confirm is to which site it was posted to.

Here is the link to the JQ post where the same question was posed:
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1547344&postcount=759
& the original JQ photo link can be found here:
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=552&pictureid=8497

Yes that is the photo.
But Sierra was not into FB from what I understood from her comments.

Guys,


look at her hair on the right of this photo.

There is something up with this photo.

kimi_SFC wrote:@Honeysage,
You just reminded me that LE actually never confirmed the date of the pic I just posted.
Eeeek...
Well, at least we know what photo is being discussed in the linked KTVU article.
Sorry about that y'all....

This photo was identified to be sent on 3/18 from an iPhone 4 according to a site, which i lost the link to on HM, that had registered its metadata once having been sent.

THis photo is alleged by Marlene to have been taken and sent on 3/16 by Sierra.

In two different instances, Marlene says Sierra texted that photo to her and in another instance Sierra took that photo on her computer just before leaving the house.

kimi_SFC wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Honeysage wrote:

Tamta wrote:Divers check out reservoir sonar scan hits in search for Sierra LaMar

Sierra posted a photo of herself on a social media website at 7 a.m., and text-messaged a classmate at 7:11 a.m. to make plans to meet at school that day to compare their schoolwork and share makeup, according to the statement.

_____________________________
Could someone tell me to what website the photo was posted? I do not recall this.


http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/divers-check-out-reservoir-sonar-scan-hits-search-/nPLbN/

well it wasn't her twiiter or tumblr...i looked at those as they are public, so i assume it was her Facebook page which was set to private.

I thought she hated FB, and thought it was stupid and for old people?

I am surprised that she would have posted there actually.

According to JQ, this is the photo they're referring to:


The picture of Sierra in the SJSharks jersey / sweatshirt / top. What I can't confirm is to which site it was posted to.

Here is the link to the JQ post where the same question was posed:
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1547344&postcount=759
& the original JQ photo link can be found here:
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=552&pictureid=8497

The evidence that the photo has been tampered with is more
clearly defined when you zoom it out to enlarge and examine more closely.

Since LE has not stated explicitly when or even where or if this photo was sent. I believe they list it though in the Statement of Facts while completely leaving out that she used her Twitter that morning though not to post this pic, that we know of.
Unless it was deleted by someone, but everything else but FB has been open.
If it was posted it does seem odd she would post it there, considering her past posts regarding FB on her twitter account.

Typo Positive wrote:

kimi_SFC wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Honeysage wrote:

Tamta wrote:Divers check out reservoir sonar scan hits in search for Sierra LaMar

Sierra posted a photo of herself on a social media website at 7 a.m., and text-messaged a classmate at 7:11 a.m. to make plans to meet at school that day to compare their schoolwork and share makeup, according to the statement.

_____________________________
Could someone tell me to what website the photo was posted? I do not recall this.


http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/divers-check-out-reservoir-sonar-scan-hits-search-/nPLbN/

well it wasn't her twiiter or tumblr...i looked at those as they are public, so i assume it was her Facebook page which was set to private.

I thought she hated FB, and thought it was stupid and for old people?

I am surprised that she would have posted there actually.

According to JQ, this is the photo they're referring to:


The picture of Sierra in the SJSharks jersey / sweatshirt / top. What I can't confirm is to which site it was posted to.

Here is the link to the JQ post where the same question was posed:
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1547344&postcount=759
& the original JQ photo link can be found here:
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=552&pictureid=8497

The evidence that the photo has been tampered with is more
clearly defined when you zoom it out to enlarge and examine more closely.

Since LE has not stated explicitly when or even where or if this photo was sent. I believe they list it though in the Statement of Facts while completely leaving out that she used her Twitter that morning though not to post this pic, that we know of.
Unless it was deleted by someone, but everything else but FB has been open.
If it was posted it does seem odd she would post it there, considering her past posts regarding FB on her twitter account.

Hinky.

Ok, does anyone have a link from a 3/18 ish news article featuring this photo?

Id like to compare them.
The background is funny too.

I just looked at the photo posted at Cranky's

https://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Sierra%20LaMar%20%20-CA-/Sierra-

Link may not work.

It has looked hinky like this all along!

https://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Sierra%20LaMar%20%20-CA-/?action=view¤t=Sierra-Sharks-taken031612last-pic-taken.jpg

In the Statement of Facts released, this is how what they stated about picture and posting:

"At 7 a.m., Sierra posted a photograph of herself on a social media website. At 7:11 a.m., Sierra exchanged a test message with a classmate,..................."

Of course, this doesn't identify which or what picture was posted.

Sorry I didn't save the pdf of the Statement of Facts for a site to quote.

Sierra did not have time to go into photoshop or some other program to alter her image before posting a pic to some unknown social media site.
Who tampered with the photo and is that why LE claimed to not be able to pin down when the photo was taken but to state it could have been a day or two before.

CA Lady wrote:In the Statement of Facts released, this is how what they stated about picture and posting:

"At 7 a.m., Sierra posted a photograph of herself on a social media website. At 7:11 a.m., Sierra exchanged a test message with a classmate,..................."

Of course, this doesn't identify which or what picture was posted.

Sorry I didn't save the pdf of the Statement of Facts for a site to quote.

This photo, as a piece if evidence snd as part if the immediate circumstances that surrounds Sierras disappearance, continues to be handled in the manner of 'craft' thus rendering it in my mind HINKY, and worthy of further scrutiny.

There is no reason to persist in concealing the context of which this photo exists.


Was she at her driveway or down the road?
Was this photo texted emailed or posted to an SM account?

Really.

I'm not sure I understand the importance of when the picture was taken as long as they know she posted it that morning before her abduction. Would it really matter in the overall sense of her missing??

Typo Positive wrote:Sierra did not have time to go into photoshop or some other program to alter her image before posting a pic to some unknown social media site.
Who tampered with the photo and is that why LE claimed to not be able to pin down when the photo was taken but to state it could have been a day or two before.

That image of Sierra I would argue is not against it's original background.

Tamta wrote:

CA Lady wrote:In the Statement of Facts released, this is how what they stated about picture and posting:

"At 7 a.m., Sierra posted a photograph of herself on a social media website. At 7:11 a.m., Sierra exchanged a test message with a classmate,..................."

Of course, this doesn't identify which or what picture was posted.

Sorry I didn't save the pdf of the Statement of Facts for a site to quote.

This photo, as a piece if evidence snd as part if the immediate circumstances that surrounds Sierras disappearance, continues to be handled in the manner of 'craft' thus rendering it in my mind HINKY, and worthy of further scrutiny.

There is no reason to persist in concealing the context of which this photo exists.


Was she at her driveway or down the road?
Was this photo texted emailed or posted to an SM account?

Really.

The Sheriff sidesteps any details about this pic on NG.
She merely says the pic is seperate from the text sent.

But, if it is just an instance of "Sierra changed her profile pic" kind of thing on FB. Why the need for being so secretive about it?
It has to be because the photo is blatantly been photoedited and there is no reasonable explanation for that in the short time span.
Now it's done before the text sent, when Marlene gives the impression it was the last thing she did practically before she left for the bus stop.
Marlene's taking a screen shot of the photo to give the media on the 18th is a bit hard to figure for me also.
I would have thought that would be under the purview of LE.
Because they also released a DIFFERENT pic to the media.
I'll have to go look for it.

Typo Positive wrote:

Tamta wrote:

CA Lady wrote:In the Statement of Facts released, this is how what they stated about picture and posting:

"At 7 a.m., Sierra posted a photograph of herself on a social media website. At 7:11 a.m., Sierra exchanged a test message with a classmate,..................."

Of course, this doesn't identify which or what picture was posted.

Sorry I didn't save the pdf of the Statement of Facts for a site to quote.

This photo, as a piece if evidence snd as part if the immediate circumstances that surrounds Sierras disappearance, continues to be handled in the manner of 'craft' thus rendering it in my mind HINKY, and worthy of further scrutiny.

There is no reason to persist in concealing the context of which this photo exists.


Was she at her driveway or down the road?
Was this photo texted emailed or posted to an SM account?

Really.

The Sheriff sidesteps any details about this pic on NG.
She merely says the pic is seperate from the text sent.

But, if it is just an instance of "Sierra changed her profile pic" kind of thing on FB. Why the need for being so secretive about it?
It has to be because the photo is blatantly been photoedited and there is no reasonable explanation for that in the short time span.
Now it's done before the text sent, when Marlene gives the impression it was the last thing she did practically before she left for the bus stop.
Marlene's taking a screen shot of the photo to give the media on the 18th is a bit hard to figure for me also.
I would have thought that would be under the purview of LE.
Because they also released a DIFFERENT pic to the media.
I'll have to go look for it.

1. I think it was taken by phone . She's holding it.

2. What's the point behind a private FB, yet a public twitter and tumblr?
Was the FB private at the time she was reported disappearing?

3. Anyone recall the FB hacking dates?

Tamta wrote:

Typo Positive wrote:Sierra did not have time to go into photoshop or some other program to alter her image before posting a pic to some unknown social media site.
Who tampered with the photo and is that why LE claimed to not be able to pin down when the photo was taken but to state it could have been a day or two before.

That image of Sierra I would argue is not against it's original background.

I think there is a mirror behind her on the wall. JMO

It looks like her right arm is lifted to me at the shoulder as though it is being taken with a camera on a phone.
Yet also on her webcam simulaneously?
Shouldn't two versions of the pic be "out there" then?

I still see her head as being cropped on the left side, and other photo anomalies.

Just my own opinion.

I KNOW I heard early on Sierra HAD sent the pic to her mother that AM.
(This is way back, when Marlene was saying she had left at 6 AM, no--- 6:30 AM. And Marlene said Rick had already left--- no, he left later, etc..)

She spins so much she's got be be dizzy by now.

Why spin? That is what bugs me. When someone spins they are hiding something.

What I see in the photo is a doorway....at the top right of the photo (Sierras left) is the darkened room beyond her. The very straight lie of the left of her head is the doorjamb, So at the top her hair blends with the darkness of the room beyond and then her hair blends downward until it meets the doorjamb at about earlobe level.