Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Stolat - would you consider a chip for you and your daughter?

Snipped:

But on Wednesday, the American Civil Liberties Union will argue before a federal appellate court in San Francisco that California's DNA collection efforts have become unconstitutionally aggressive and that the spike in hits comes at the expense of civil liberties.

The ACLU is asking the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to strike down California's Proposition 69, which authorized police to obtain a genetic sample from every person arrested on felony charges, not just those convicted. Some 25 other states have enacted similar laws since 62 percent of the California electorate passed the measure in 2004.

The issue of the warrantless swabbing of the cheek with a Q-tip of everyone arrested for a felony has sparked one of the hottest "search and seizure" debates in state and federal courts in decades.[More..]

The 9th Circuit itself has previously upheld the California law, which went into full effect in 2009. But underscoring the importance of the debate, a majority of the court's 24 judges voted to reconsider that divided ruling of three-judge panel. The matter now goes before a special "en banc" court of 11 judges.

Judge Milan Smith Jr., in writing the majority opinion of the three-judge panel, likened the expanded DNA collection efforts to nothing more than the 21st Century's answer to fingerprints.

But California's proposition expanded DNA collection to those arrested for felonies – an important distinction to the ACLU and privacy advocates. They argue the cheek swab of the arrestee comes too early in the criminal justice process, because not every felony arrest leads to a felony conviction, and every American is innocent until proven guilty. The critics aren't challenging the state's right to collect samples from those convicted of felonies.

"Testing those who are actually convicted serves the state's legitimate interests in obtaining samples from proven criminals while avoiding the threats to privacy created by testing everyone arrested, including those who are innocent," the ACLU's Michael Risher argued to the court.

The ACLU is representing three Californians who say they are among the 50,000 people arrested for felonies every year in California but never convicted of a felony. They say their privacy was invaded by the cheek swabbing during their arrest and incarceration, usually during booking.

More:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/09/17/california-dna-collection-aclu_n_1889765.html?utm_hp_ref=crime

Lash wrote:Stolat - would you consider a chip for you and your daughter?

Lash, as I mentioned in my earlier link, with all these missing bodies and missing children, I'm almost to the point where I would consider it. I know people go ape wild about "big brother" watching, but I'm not one of them - my life is rather boring and simple. If someone's analyzing how many trips I make the bank or grocery - then so be it, they'll only see how poor I am. lol! I would consider it a tradeoff of a voluntary decision that not everyone might choose to do. The only real big issue I'd have would be long-term health risks. Not sure the technology is safe enough not to cause cancer, etc. But I have already microchipped my dog years ago and it came in real handy when she ran off.

I have researched the new devices that you can stowe discreetly into a school backpack or a belt or wristwatch. In fact, the wristwatch is the best idea so far -- often you hear of discarded purses, backpacks, cellphones. ....But rarely do you hear news of a missing body where the victim's wristwatch was disposed of in the woods.

Plea Entry in Sierra LaMar Case Could Be Delayed Months

Next court date is scheduled for 2 p.m. Wednesday, Sept. 26 in Department 23 of the San Jose Hall of Justice.

By Sheila Sanchez | 8:56 am

Sierra LaMar murder and kidnapping suspect Antolin Garcia-Torres is scheduled to appear in court at 2 p.m. Sept. 26 in Department 23 of the San Jose Hall of Justice to again possibly enter a plea.

A hearing on Aug. 29 continued the proceedings yet again, with his appearance waived just as was done on July 31, according to Santa Clara County prosecutor David Boyd.

Garcia-Torres waived arraingment—the advisement of the charges brought against him—in May and then on July 31 and Aug. 29 didn't appear. He's been appointed Santa Clara County Public Defender Traci Owens to represent him.

Read more:

http://cupertino.patch.com/articles/plea-entry-in-sierra-lamar-case-could-be-delayed-months

Plea Entry in Sierra Lamar Case Could be Delayed Months

Snipped:

"This is not a routine murder case."


http://cupertino.patch.com/articles/plea-entry-in-sierra-lamar-case-could-be-delayed-months

Tamta wrote:

Plea Entry in Sierra Lamar Case Could be Delayed Months

Snipped:

"This is not a routine murder case."


http://cupertino.patch.com/articles/plea-entry-in-sierra-lamar-case-could-be-delayed-months

I'm okay with him behind behind bars for all that time. He obviously shows no sign of rushing to get home to his pregnant wife and child in his mom's trailer.

DNA sampling of arrestees draws skepticism in federal court hearing


During an hour of arguments Wednesday, an 11-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals was largely skeptical of the state's argument that government's public safety interest in collecting DNA from arrestees outweighs constitutional protections against unreasonable searches.


http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_21583561/dna-sampling-arrestees-draws-skepticism-federal-court-hearing

Father of accused killer of Morgan Hill teen Sierra LaMar goes on trial for molestation

By Tracey Kaplan
tkaplan@mercurynews.com

September 20, 2012 2:41 AM GMT
Updated: 09/19/2012 07:41:24 PM PDT


Genaro Garcia Fernandez. (Courtesy Santa Clara County Sheriff's Office)

Defense attorneys frequently bring up an accused killer's beleaguered childhood, hoping to soften up a judge or jury and secure a more lenient sentence. But even before Antolin Garcia-Torres is tried next year in the killing of 15-year-old Sierra LaMar, his dysfunctional family background surfaced Wednesday in a highly unusual way -- during his father's trial on child molestation charges.

Genaro Garcia Fernandez, 51, is charged in Santa Clara County Superior Court with 18 sex crimes against two female relatives. Prosecutors allege he first fondled the primary victim when she was 4 years old and began raping her periodically when she was just 7 -- in the same small San Martin home where his son, Garcia-Torres, grew up.

If Fernandez is convicted, he will spend the rest of his life in prison. Garcia-Torres, 21, is also facing a life sentence. Prosecutors allege he kidnapped and killed LaMar, who disappeared from Morgan Hill on March 16. Her body has never been found. But her DNA was in Garcia-Torres' car.

The jury of 10 women and two men in Fernandez's trial will not be told of his connection to the accused killer. Garcia-Torres' father's history also will not figure in the son's trial, though it may come up during sentencing if he is convicted of killing LaMar.

Read more:

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_21587051/father-accused-killer-morgan-hill-teen-sierra-lamar

Stolat wrote:
Lash, as I mentioned in my earlier link, with all these missing bodies and missing children, I'm almost to the point where I would consider it. I know people go ape wild about "big brother" watching, but I'm not one of them - my life is rather boring and simple. If someone's analyzing how many trips I make the bank or grocery - then so be it, they'll only see how poor I am. lol! I would consider it a tradeoff of a voluntary decision that not everyone might choose to do. The only real big issue I'd have would be long-term health risks. Not sure the technology is safe enough not to cause cancer, etc. But I have already microchipped my dog years ago and it came in real handy when she ran off.

I have researched the new devices that you can stowe discreetly into a school backpack or a belt or wristwatch. In fact, the wristwatch is the best idea so far -- often you hear of discarded purses, backpacks, cellphones. ....But rarely do you hear news of a missing body where the victim's wristwatch was disposed of in the woods.

Stolat, I don't have children. However, I believe this is something I would consider if I had a child. The skin implant would be the last resort, but a GPS chip in a watch or necklace I think I could do. I sometimes wonder if blogging on these crimes has made us over protective of our children. It definitely doesn't help the reality that these things could happen to any of our children. I believe as evil evolves in our world, we must evolve to protect our children. These sick individuals are not going away. In fact, I tend to believe some of our cultural changes has created even more sickness in this world.

I often wonder how much time AGT spent with his father when he was not in prison? How much did AGT know about the sexual abuse his own sister endured at the hands of his father? The Safeway attacks occurred during a time his father was not in prison, at least not for the charges of raping his daughter. In many cases of incest, the rape occurs when the perp is watching the children while the other parent is not around. I tend to believe AGT was under his fathers care at the same time his sister was being sexually abused. I am interested to know when his sister brought forward the accusations against her father? Maybe 2009 when the Safeway attacks began? Could this have triggered something in AGT?

Added:

Snip- The female relative who claims Fernandez molested her for years came forward last summer, about 11 months before Garcia-Torres was arrested on suspicion of killing the Morgan Hill teen. The molestation charges against Fernandez were also filed well before his son was arrested.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_21587051/father-accused-killer-morgan-hill-teen-sierra-lamar

Haven't had much time to come on here but have been reading - no one on here has discussed agt going to juvenile court! He has secondary court appearance there today!

Concerning sister protecting a child and breaking cycle she was protecting her own children as I have read in the article above from the mercury news.

Tbrownsanjo wrote:Haven't had much time to come on here but have been reading - no one on here has discussed agt going to juvenile court! He has secondary court appearance there today!

Concerning sister protecting a child and breaking cycle she was protecting her own children as I have read in the article above from the mercury news.

Thank you! Juvenile court, for what? Do you have a link or source we can look at? TIA

Not to be picky, and i know im the minority here in regard to Torres' as guilty of Sierra's disappearance, but AGT is only alleged to be involved in the Safeway incidents and has not yet been charged or perhaps even investigated.

He is at the moment a criminal defendant in a kidnapping- murder case.

Having said that, the known details of the other ordeals that some females in his family are startling and if he knows something I hope he says so.

Tamta - You're correct. AGT has not been charged in the Safeway attacks. However, his DNA was connected to the attacks. In my opinion, he is connected to the Safeway attacks.

AGT does not necessarily need to speak on behalf of his sisters at his fathers trial. His dad admitted to the abuse.

Snip - Ozgur said Fernandez eventually apologized to the young woman in a phone call police recorded and also in a letter. But Ozgur said it wasn't a true apology.

"He explained, she wanted it, she liked it," Ozgur told an attentive jury of 10 women and two men. "He claimed he didn't take her virginity."

According to the prosecutor's translation of the letter Fernandez wrote in Spanish, Garcia-Torres' father also said, "You know we did have sex, but it was for the pleasure of the two."

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_21587051/father-accused-killer-morgan-hill-teen-sierra-lamar

Lash wrote:Tamta - You're correct. AGT has not been charged in the Safeway attacks. However, his DNA was connected to the attacks. In my opinion, he is connected to the Safeway attacks.

AGT does not necessarily need to speak on behalf of his sisters at his fathers trial. His dad admitted to the abuse.

True about the father case, thsnks.

However, about AGT, DNA is not a matching system but a means of narrowing down the probabilities.

It remains possible (and i dont know population statistics of Morgsn Hill), that another Latino male is involved, in this case and Sierras.

Also we have no idea about the integrity of the chain of custody for evidence in any incident attributed to him.

Lash wrote:

Tbrownsanjo wrote:Haven't had much time to come on here but have been reading - no one on here has discussed agt going to juvenile court! He has secondary court appearance there today!

Concerning sister protecting a child and breaking cycle she was protecting her own children as I have read in the article above from the mercury news.

Thank you! Juvenile court, for what? Do you have a link or source we can look at? TIA

Have no idea where my other post is but I periodically check both of there court information
http://eservices.sccgov.org/ovr/find_inmate.do

I checkes It for agt after his last court date and I saw dept 77 - I know this is juvenile court / long story.

Then after first juvenile court appearance on twitter someone said they saw him there

Snip from twitter
@YummiYoni: I saw Sierra Lamar's killer today at court fucker was smiling and shit #disturbing #smh
@YummiYoni: @supdess yeah they like stopped the court session to bring him in
@YummiYoni: @supdess yeah he was muggin at all the girls and smiling at everyone else I wanted to just sick him
@YummiYoni: @postnet92 it was the other guy accomplise he's 17 I guess
@YummiYoni: @postnet92 idk he was at juvenile court cause he is a juvenile and his case was Sierra Lamar's murder that's all I know

Cannot find anything in the news although I was there last week - for the long story - and everyone I personally know there was tight lipped! Only thing they would tell me is the 17 year old is in custody.

I hope that helps.

I will agree that the chain of custody of the evidence in the murder case is reasonably questionable. To the degree that we do not know who may have had access to the Jetta during the time Sierra disappeared. I do not question the integrity of the evidence. Who had custody of the Jetta is a logical question. I think LE tried to answer that question with the home surveillance video that was captured of the Jetta during the crucial time frame.

Sierra's fingerprints in/on the car is as legit as you can get. Sierra is still missing and I don't know of any way LE could plant her fingerprints. By all means, Sierra is attached to the Jetta.

AGT's DNA was found on Sierra's clothes. The clothes were found in the bag. That almost eliminates the theory that AGT only handled the bag to dispose of something he found in his car. I guess he could have opened the bag, touched the clothes and closed it back up before he disposed of it. However, if this is what happened, why the plea delay? Why wouldn't AGT tell LE his story and who else had custody of his car? In fact, why would AGT dispose of evidence? The right thing to do would have been to contact LE as soon as he found the bag.

I do not believe LE is infallible or cannot be corrupt. I cannot deduce Sierra's prints and AGT's DNA as a coincidence or corruption. Sierra's attachment to the Jetta that belonged to AGT is powerful. If AGT's DNA was planted or transferred accidentally, explain the prints. Explain to me Antolin, why Sierra's prints would be in/on your car?

Tbrownsanjo - Thank you! I see a court date tomorrow the 21st.

To search under name use:

Antolin
Torres
03/30/1991

http://eservices.sccgov.org/ovr/find_inmate.do

Lash wrote:I will agree that the chain of custody of the evidence in the murder case is reasonably questionable. To the degree that we do not know who may have had access to the Jetta during the time Sierra disappeared. I do not question the integrity of the evidence. Who had custody of the Jetta is a logical question. I think LE tried to answer that question with the home surveillance video that was captured of the Jetta during the crucial time frame.

Sierra's fingerprints in/on the car is as legit as you can get. Sierra is still missing and I don't know of any way LE could plant her fingerprints. By all means, Sierra is attached to the Jetta.

AGT's DNA was found on Sierra's clothes. The clothes were found in the bag. That almost eliminates the theory that AGT only handled the bag to dispose of something he found in his car. I guess he could have opened the bag, touched the clothes and closed it back up before he disposed of it. However, if this is what happened, why the plea delay? Why wouldn't AGT tell LE his story and who else had custody of his car? In fact, why would AGT dispose of evidence? The right thing to do would have been to contact LE as soon as he found the bag.

I do not believe LE is infallible or cannot be corrupt. I cannot deduce Sierra's prints and AGT's DNA as a coincidence or corruption. Sierra's attachment to the Jetta that belonged to AGT is powerful. If AGT's DNA was planted or transferred accidentally, explain the prints. Explain to me Antolin, why Sierra's prints would be in/on your car?

But even giving the 'evidence' of their DNA in proximity to one another the benefit of the doubt before it is tested by the trier of fact, the charge against Torres remains Murder and Kidnapping which is a possible capital offense.


At best, what the State and Smith have presented to the public thus far appears conclusory and suggestive.

So far I see the State and Smith asking the public to make some mental leaps.
That doesn't strike me as fair.

What if they are wrong or did something wrong?

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:I will agree that the chain of custody of the evidence in the murder case is reasonably questionable. To the degree that we do not know who may have had access to the Jetta during the time Sierra disappeared. I do not question the integrity of the evidence. Who had custody of the Jetta is a logical question. I think LE tried to answer that question with the home surveillance video that was captured of the Jetta during the crucial time frame.

Sierra's fingerprints in/on the car is as legit as you can get. Sierra is still missing and I don't know of any way LE could plant her fingerprints. By all means, Sierra is attached to the Jetta.

AGT's DNA was found on Sierra's clothes. The clothes were found in the bag. That almost eliminates the theory that AGT only handled the bag to dispose of something he found in his car. I guess he could have opened the bag, touched the clothes and closed it back up before he disposed of it. However, if this is what happened, why the plea delay? Why wouldn't AGT tell LE his story and who else had custody of his car? In fact, why would AGT dispose of evidence? The right thing to do would have been to contact LE as soon as he found the bag.

I do not believe LE is infallible or cannot be corrupt. I cannot deduce Sierra's prints and AGT's DNA as a coincidence or corruption. Sierra's attachment to the Jetta that belonged to AGT is powerful. If AGT's DNA was planted or transferred accidentally, explain the prints. Explain to me Antolin, why Sierra's prints would be in/on your car?

But even giving the 'evidence' of their DNA in proximity to one another the benefit of the doubt before it is tested by the trier of fact, the charge against Torres remains Murder and Kidnapping which is a possible capital offense.


At best, what the State and Smith have presented to the public thus far appears conclusory and suggestive.

So far I see the State and Smith asking the public to make some mental leaps.
That doesn't strike me as fair.

What if they are wrong or did something wrong?

I am the public and it is no mental leap at all for me to say it is very nefarious for Sierra's DNA to wind up in a car belonging to a man who *himself* claimed he never ever ever ever came across Sierra. That is a no-brainer for me.

No logical explanation for that one. He says she wasn't there - period ....and yet DNA says she WAS there! So he's already set himself up -- corruption didn't even need to play a part here.

Tamta wrote:

Lash wrote:Tamta - You're correct. AGT has not been charged in the Safeway attacks. However, his DNA was connected to the attacks. In my opinion, he is connected to the Safeway attacks.

AGT does not necessarily need to speak on behalf of his sisters at his fathers trial. His dad admitted to the abuse.

True about the father case, thsnks.

However, about AGT, DNA is not a matching system but a means of narrowing down the probabilities.

It remains possible (and i dont know population statistics of Morgsn Hill), that another Latino male is involved, in this case and Sierras.

Also we have no idea about the integrity of the chain of custody for evidence in any incident attributed to him.

...who happens to also be completely unaccounted for that day and who happens to own a car who also had Sierra's DNA in it. yes, I understand "possible" but I couple it with "unlikely".

Stolat wrote:

Tamta wrote:

But even giving the 'evidence' of their DNA in proximity to one another the benefit of the doubt before it is tested by the trier of fact, the charge against Torres remains Murder and Kidnapping which is a possible capital offense.


At best, what the State and Smith have presented to the public thus far appears conclusory and suggestive.

So far I see the State and Smith asking the public to make some mental leaps.
That doesn't strike me as fair.

What if they are wrong or did something wrong?

I am the public and it is no mental leap at all for me to say it is very nefarious for Sierra's DNA to wind up in a car belonging to a man who *himself* claimed he never ever ever ever came across Sierra. That is a no-brainer for me.

No logical explanation for that one. He says she wasn't there - period ....and yet DNA says she WAS there! So he's already set himself up -- corruption didn't even need to play a part here.

Ok, so unwillfull proximity might be reasonably infered in conjunction with facts that they never had contact, we just know this through hearsay at the moment.

I accept Sierra is deceased and not a run away or captive.

Sierra's body is still missing and I speculate for similar reasons put forth by Smith, that she is most likely a victim of homicide.

How does that what lead to the reasonsble conclusion that AGT murdered her?

WHAT constitutes the proof that she has been murdered, by him or anyone else?

I argue there are some leaps here.

Tamta wrote:

Stolat wrote:

I am the public and it is no mental leap at all for me to say it is very nefarious for Sierra's DNA to wind up in a car belonging to a man who *himself* claimed he never ever ever ever came across Sierra. That is a no-brainer for me.

No logical explanation for that one. He says she wasn't there - period ....and yet DNA says she WAS there! So he's already set himself up -- corruption didn't even need to play a part here.

Ok, so unwillfull proximity might be reasonably infered in conjunction with facts that they never had contact, we just know this through hearsay at the moment.

I accept Sierra is deceased and not a run away or captive.

Sierra's body is still missing and I speculate for similar reasons put forth by Smith, that she is most likely a victim of homicide.

How does that what lead to the reasonsble conclusion that AGT murdered her?

WHAT constitutes the proof that she has been murdered, by him or anyone else?

I argue there are some leaps here.

I appreciate your reasoning. By what inclination do you have that she is deceased but not murdered? If you accept she is deceased (and evidently without requiring any leaps) then why is that so acceptable but not that she was murdered? You have no proof she is deceased and yet you seem to have no problem with that at all. You know I do appreciate your analysis and this is all rhetoric.

Stolat wrote:

Tamta wrote:

True about the father case, thsnks.

However, about AGT, DNA is not a matching system but a means of narrowing down the probabilities.

It remains possible (and i dont know population statistics of Morgsn Hill), that another Latino male is involved, in this case and Sierras.

Also we have no idea about the integrity of the chain of custody for evidence in any incident attributed to him.

...who happens to also be completely unaccounted for that day and who happens to own a car who also had Sierra's DNA in it. yes, I understand "possible" but I couple it with "unlikely".

To be fair, We don't know what he has to say about his whereabouts, according to Smith she doesn't know.

We lack fact specific knowledge of when and where he last spoke or saw someone.
General comments about fishing that day aren't that insightful.
That's either what his family thinks or they wanted to say something publicly about where GE could have been ? IDK.

There was a distinct window of opportunity time wise that morning.
And the public doesn't know his timeline.

Just because someone else can't vouch for a person for 25 minutes to an hour or two doesn't mean he was available to commit murder.

Lots of defense attorneys (of guilty and not guilty defendants) opt not to pursue an alibi defense because their clients don't have a direct witness to their whereabouts at a specific period or moment of time. PRE-Parenting days I'm sure I was off the radar briefly here and there.

The Asst DA was pretty pissy looking when phone records were subpoenaed.

What's the direct, not circumstantial, evidence that Smith has that proves he took her and murdered her?

His guilt has to be proved to me.
I don't trust SCSO's investigation.
They have a big investment in neatly wrapping this up, IMO.

This is my problem:

DNA is a wonderful tool. Like all tools, it can be used in a constructive, creative way. At the same time, it can also be misused. How? By deceit. I would have to see a clear chain of evidence pointing to this suspect, clear chain showing the values of the DNA have NOT been tampered with, etc..

While I would like to do a knee-jerk and link this suspect to ALL the unsolved crimes in the area (grocery store in particular) it would simply be a knee-jerk. And while there are still mostly honest and decent LE agencies, we all have heard of dishonest ones as well. Agencies only hoping to "clear the books" of certain cases.

Call me a skeptic but it is very odd how this individual is suddenly arrested and charged for Sierra's disappearance and murder without any supporting evidence. And IF he had been in the headlights of LE re Sierra early on, WHY was the public sent on a wild goose chase with LE BEGGING the public for more info? Any info?

I am cautious as it appears LE have a few puzzle pieces and they are trying to create a complete and total puzzle using too few pieces; further, the picture they are trying to create encompasses more cases. And the evidence has yet to be offered. IF LE are magicians, I am sure they will conjure up more "plausibility" as time goes on.

Is this simply a rush to clean the books of other unsolved crimes and rehabilitate the community's image?

I need to look back on the case. I believe the evidence LE had in the Safeway attacks did not receive a match or hit in CODIS at the time of the attacks. AGT was not in the system at the time. It wasn't until after his felony and a second CODIS run did they get a hit. IIRC? Also, IIRC, the evidence in the Safeway attacks was being held by a different LE agency than Smith's department.

Tamta wrote:

Stolat wrote:

...who happens to also be completely unaccounted for that day and who happens to own a car who also had Sierra's DNA in it. yes, I understand "possible" but I couple it with "unlikely".

To be fair, We don't know what he has to say about his whereabouts, according to Smith she doesn't know.

We lack fact specific knowledge of when and where he last spoke or saw someone.
General comments about fishing that day aren't that insightful.
That's either what his family thinks or they wanted to say something publicly about where GE could have been ? IDK.

There was a distinct window of opportunity time wise that morning.
And the public doesn't know his timeline.

Just because someone else can't vouch for a person for 25 minutes to an hour or two doesn't mean he was available to commit murder.

Lots of defense attorneys (of guilty and not guilty defendants) opt not to pursue an alibi defense because their clients don't have a direct witness to their whereabouts at a specific period or moment of time. PRE-Parenting days I'm sure I was off the radar briefly here and there.
The Asst DA was pretty pissy looking when phone records were subpoenaed.

What's the direct, not circumstantial, evidence that Smith has that proves he took her and murdered her?

His guilt has to be proved to me.
I don't trust SCSO's investigation.
They have a big investment in neatly wrapping this up, IMO.

Interesting that you would compare yourself in pre-parenting days to a man who doesn't fit that category?

So if what you are saying is that a person who is pre-child rearing age can expect more lenency with regards to off-radar whereas a parent has more expectation *not* to be off-radar, then you just applied that to Torres -- who *is* a parent.

But I get what you're saying. And I do realize that Torres himself has not issued an alibi.

It all will be very interesting. I think Drew Peterson's case required far more leaps than this case - and interesting how that one turned out.

Lash wrote:I need to look back on the case. I believe the evidence LE had in the Safeway attacks did not receive a match or hit in CODIS at the time of the attacks. AGT was not in the system at the time. It wasn't until after his felony and a second CODIS run did they get a hit. IIRC? Also, IIRC, the evidence in the Safeway attacks was being held by a different LE agency than Smith's department.

My recollecton as well. No prior CODIS registry and therefore no match.

Morgan Hill: Sierra LaMar suspect's father convicted of child molestation

By Tracey Kaplan
Posted: 09/26/2012 12:35:28 PM PDT
September Updated: 09/26/2012 06:03:57 PM PDT

MORGAN HILL -- After deliberating for two days, a jury on Wednesday convicted the father of teenager Sierra LaMar's suspected killer for sexually molesting a female relative when she was a child, including repeatedly raping her starting when she was just 7.

The case against Genaro Garcia Fernandez, 51, offered a glimpse into the dysfunctional childhood of his son, Antolin Garcia-Torres, who is charged with kidnapping and killing LaMar, 15.

Fernandez's victim testified he first fondled her when she was 4 years old -- in the same small San Martin home where his son, Garcia-Torres, grew up. Fernandez confessed in a phone call recorded by police and wrote a letter of apology to the young woman.

Read more:

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_21636354/san-jose-sierra-lamar-suspects-father-convicted-child

Plea hearing continued again for Sierra LaMar murder suspect

Posted: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 3:32 pm | Updated: 4:19 pm, Wed Sep 26, 2012


Antolin Garcia Torres (Lora Schraft)

The suspect in the kidnapping and murder of missing 15-year-old Sierra LaMar waived his right to appear in court again today as his plea hearing was continued to Oct. 30.

Antolin Garcia Torres, 21, is charged with the murder, with a special circumstance of kidnapping, of Sierra - who is a sophomore at Sobrato High School. Torres waived his right to appear in July and again on Aug. 29; each of the last two scheduled court dates.

~Snipped~

On the same day that Garcia Torres was scheduled to plea, his father Genaro Garcia Fernandez, 51, was convicted by a jury after two days of deliberation for molesting a female relative when she was a child and raping her beginning at age 7.

Read more:

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/crime_fire_courts/plea-hearing-continued-again-for-sierra-lamar-murder-suspect/article_520b82e6-2ef8-525e-9b34-2cb495dd078f.html

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Plea hearing continued again for Sierra LaMar murder suspect

Posted: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 3:32 pm | Updated: 4:19 pm, Wed Sep 26, 2012


Antolin Garcia Torres (Lora Schraft)

The suspect in the kidnapping and murder of missing 15-year-old Sierra LaMar waived his right to appear in court again today as his plea hearing was continued to Oct. 30.

Antolin Garcia Torres, 21, is charged with the murder, with a special circumstance of kidnapping, of Sierra - who is a sophomore at Sobrato High School. Torres waived his right to appear in July and again on Aug. 29; each of the last two scheduled court dates.

~Snipped~

On the same day that Garcia Torres was scheduled to plea, his father Genaro Garcia Fernandez, 51, was convicted by a jury after two days of deliberation for molesting a female relative when she was a child and raping her beginning at age 7.

Read more:

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/crime_fire_courts/plea-hearing-continued-again-for-sierra-lamar-murder-suspect/article_520b82e6-2ef8-525e-9b34-2cb495dd078f.html

Can I ask a stupid question? What does it mean that he waived his right to appear in court. Does this mean that nothing can move forward in the process until he changes his mind and appears in court for plea hearing? So this is one stall tactic after another? I don't get why he'd want to stall?? What's the benefit to him?

Stolat, I think it just means that he gave up his right to physically appear in court on the date of the hearing. His attorneys will be there, and everyone else...he is just signing a statement waiving his right to be there HIMSELF.

Just like the "one who shall not be named" wanted to waive her right to appear, and both Strickland and Perry denied that motion.

Please correct me if I'm wrong anyone!

Weeziethm wrote:Stolat, I think it just means that he gave up his right to physically appear in court on the date of the hearing. His attorneys will be there, and everyone else...he is just signing a statement waiving his right to be there HIMSELF.

Just like the "one who shall not be named" wanted to waive her right to appear, and both Strickland and Perry denied that motion.

Please correct me if I'm wrong anyone!

But everytime he doesn't appear, it seems they make no progress and submit no plea and yet another court date is assigned. So I guess what I'm asking is -- when will they enter a plea??? What is that holdup?

Stolat wrote:

Weeziethm wrote:Stolat, I think it just means that he gave up his right to physically appear in court on the date of the hearing. His attorneys will be there, and everyone else...he is just signing a statement waiving his right to be there HIMSELF.

Just like the "one who shall not be named" wanted to waive her right to appear, and both Strickland and Perry denied that motion.

Please correct me if I'm wrong anyone!

But everytime he doesn't appear, it seems they make no progress and submit no plea and yet another court date is assigned. So I guess what I'm asking is -- when will they enter a plea??? What is that holdup?

I don't understand, the right to a speedy trial does not get him out of the charges if he is the one delaying it.
I don't understand the hold-up or the benefit to him. I would think that if he was innocent or not guilty (and I see the two as different) that he would be anxious to get this started and get out of custody. Someone please help me to understand... even if he was to plea they still can not make him tell what happened/where Sierra is. Perplexed and confused!

justanopinion wrote:

Stolat wrote:

But everytime he doesn't appear, it seems they make no progress and submit no plea and yet another court date is assigned. So I guess what I'm asking is -- when will they enter a plea??? What is that holdup?

I don't understand, the right to a speedy trial does not get him out of the charges if he is the one delaying it.
I don't understand the hold-up or the benefit to him. I would think that if he was innocent or not guilty (and I see the two as different) that he would be anxious to get this started and get out of custody. Someone please help me to understand... even if he was to plea they still can not make him tell what happened/where Sierra is. Perplexed and confused!

I think they (defense) are investigating and are still in the process of getting everything they need- remember they just had to subpoena phone records and they still may not have them. There may be additional information they need as well.

His lawyers may be saying to him, 'I know jail sucks but sit tight now and wait it out, because its possible to get the case dismissed'.

It's a high profile case.
Juries convict people all of the time with weak or bad forensic evidence.
Thin statements of PC are accepted by judges frequently.

Maybe the goal is to squash this before trial so what's the point of entering 'not guilty'?

There is very little information out there about the details of this case.
We haven't seen the DAs statement of PC.
(I think in CA it can be phoned or faxed in to the judge and then filed later.)

We don't know if its legally established yet that a crime was committed.

I don't think these hold ups are the fault of the accused personally.

It's the system.

Tamta wrote:

justanopinion wrote:


I don't understand, the right to a speedy trial does not get him out of the charges if he is the one delaying it.
I don't understand the hold-up or the benefit to him. I would think that if he was innocent or not guilty (and I see the two as different) that he would be anxious to get this started and get out of custody. Someone please help me to understand... even if he was to plea they still can not make him tell what happened/where Sierra is. Perplexed and confused!

I think they (defense) are investigating and are still in the process of getting everything they need- remember they just had to subpoena phone records and they still may not have them. There may be additional information they need as well.

His lawyers may be saying to him, 'I know jail sucks but sit tight now and wait it out, because its possible to get the case dismissed'.

It's a high profile case.
Juries convict people all of the time with weak or bad forensic evidence.
Thin statements of PC are accepted by judges frequently.

Maybe the goal is to squash this before trial so what's the point of entering 'not guilty'?

There is very little information out there about the details of this case.
We haven't seen the DAs statement of PC.
(I think in CA it can be phoned or faxed in to the judge and then filed later.)

We don't know if its legally established yet that a crime was committed.

I don't think these hold ups are the fault of the accused personally.

It's the system.

ok - that much I get. makes sense. So it is likely a stall tactic because defense is underprepared. That I can swallow. otherwise, I was like "what gives"? I mean, who really wants to stay in jail?

Although he probably does have more personal space, better tv and workout facility and no crying kids where he's at now.

Missing teen Sierra LaMar turns 16
Friday, October 19, 2012

MORGAN HILL, Calif. -- Missing Morgan Hill teenager Sierra LaMar's 16th birthday is Friday, an event marred by her unknown whereabouts after more than seven months of searching.

"This is an incredibly difficult week for Sierra's family," said Marc Klaas, head of the KlaasKids Foundation.

Sierra disappeared on her way to her high school in Morgan Hill on the morning of March 16.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/south_bay&id=8853534

The link below was posted for Jessica Ridgeway.
I am posting it here as it explains a bit of the science of finding a missing or murdered person as well as the "who did it".

Article is from 10/18/2012
clipped---

" In the vast majority of cases of child abduction murder, the victim and perpetrator are at least familiar with one another, having actually met or at least noticed each other at school, church, a friend’s house, walking within the neighborhood or along some route or transportation corridor that the victim frequently traveled. The most rare type of relationship in child abduction murder cases is that of complete stranger."


" Criminologists believe that murderers fall into one of two categories: the organized offender and the disorganized offender. Murderers who are complete strangers to their victims tend to fall into the organized category, as do murderers who take steps to make a victim’s body more difficult to locate or identify through tactics like mutilation or the scattering of body parts to different locations. Serial killers also typically exhibit traits that lead them to be classified as organized."

" At this point, perhaps the best path to solving this particular murder rests with the ability of law enforcement’s geographic profilers to identify the killer’s awareness space, which is defined as that geographic area that individuals have become familiar with over their lifetime. It is composed of those places that have been incorporated into a person’s memory by repeated exposure.

A person’s, including a criminal’s, awareness space is centered around those locations that are most important to them, starting with their home and including other locations such as work, a friend’s house, the primary stores where they shop, favorite walking paths, etc. It is also composed of the transportation corridors used to connect those locations to one another.

Defining the perpetrator’s awareness space is critical to solving Jessica’s case, because in the vast majority of child abduction murders, as well as other crimes, researchers have found that the perpetrator lives within his awareness space, commits his crimes close to home and within that awareness space, and disposes of his victims and other evidence at the outer edges of the awareness space, generally along the space’s transportation corridors."

Much more:
http://www.boulderweekly.com/article-9976-jessica-ridgeway-killerrss-lsawareness-spacers-may-lead-to-clues.html

Freckles -- ironically there is yet another reason to post an article relating to Jessica Ridgeway here.

CNN Nancy Grace:
...."We`re learning all sorts of information tonight as we go to air. For instance, we are learning that there are reports that Jessie`s clothes were neatly folded up and put in her bag."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1210/22/ng.01.html

For months, people here on this thread have been debating the relevance of Sierra's folded clothes in her bookbag and noted how odd it was. Many thought that it was Sierra herself when they still believed her alive. Many thought it was the mom. Very few believed it to be credible that the killer would bother folding her clothes - AND put them in her bag--- after the crime.

Perhaps there is a lesson here for all of us to learn -- that perhaps there exists an MO of certain killers / sex offenders we are not fully appreciative of yet.

Hearing scheduled today for suspect in murder of Sierra LaMar

Tuesday, October 30, 2012

The plea hearing for the suspect in the kidnapping and murder of 15-year-old Sierra LaMar is scheduled for today at 2 p.m. in the San Jose Hall of Justice.

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/crime_fire_courts/hearing-scheduled-today-for-suspect-in-murder-of-sierra-lamar/article_9759de0a-9899-5b0e-90ed-8842e355b13e.html

Sierra LaMar Murder Suspect's Plea Hearing Postponed, Again

Posted: Oct 30, 2012 7:45 PM CDT
Updated: Oct 30, 2012 7:45 PM CDT
By Jacqueline Tualla

SAN JOSE, Calif. -- The man accused of kidnapping and murdering Morgan Hill teen Sierra LaMar once again ditched his court appearance on Tuesday.

According to the Santa Clara County Court clerk, this is the seventh time since May 24 attorneys for Antolin Garcia-Torres asked to postpone his plea hearing.

http://www.kionrightnow.com/story/19958475/sierra-lamar-murder-suspects-plea-hearing-postponed-again

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Sierra LaMar Murder Suspect's Plea Hearing Postponed, Again

Posted: Oct 30, 2012 7:45 PM CDT
Updated: Oct 30, 2012 7:45 PM CDT
By Jacqueline Tualla

SAN JOSE, Calif. -- The man accused of kidnapping and murdering Morgan Hill teen Sierra LaMar once again ditched his court appearance on Tuesday.

According to the Santa Clara County Court clerk, this is the seventh time since May 24 attorneys for Antolin Garcia-Torres asked to postpone his plea hearing.

http://www.kionrightnow.com/story/19958475/sierra-lamar-murder-suspects-plea-hearing-postponed-again

Is this common?

Stolat wrote:

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Sierra LaMar Murder Suspect's Plea Hearing Postponed, Again

Posted: Oct 30, 2012 7:45 PM CDT
Updated: Oct 30, 2012 7:45 PM CDT
By Jacqueline Tualla

SAN JOSE, Calif. -- The man accused of kidnapping and murdering Morgan Hill teen Sierra LaMar once again ditched his court appearance on Tuesday.

According to the Santa Clara County Court clerk, this is the seventh time since May 24 attorneys for Antolin Garcia-Torres asked to postpone his plea hearing.

http://www.kionrightnow.com/story/19958475/sierra-lamar-murder-suspects-plea-hearing-postponed-again

Is this common?

Forgive me! Is there a limit to how many times this can be postponed? Why would he want this?
Help!

justanopinion wrote:

Stolat wrote:

Is this common?

Forgive me! Is there a limit to how many times this can be postponed? Why would he want this?
Help!

Further up above Tamta kindly explained that from a defense standpoint it may be beneficial to remain in jail if they don't yet have all the evidence they need yet OR if they feel that waiting it out will more likely position them to a dismissed trial (somehow - although I still don't know how that works).

But still...somehow I wonder if staying in jail is a stall tactic for him to ensure that whatever skeletal remains exist are so far decomposed that if they are discovered some time during his trial, they will be too far along to link him defnitively. And THAT is my strongest gut feeling about this whole stall tactic.

Stolat wrote:

justanopinion wrote:


Forgive me! Is there a limit to how many times this can be postponed? Why would he want this?
Help!

Further up above Tamta kindly explained that from a defense standpoint it may be beneficial to remain in jail if they don't yet have all the evidence they need yet OR if they feel that waiting it out will more likely position them to a dismissed trial (somehow - although I still don't know how that works).

But still...somehow I wonder if staying in jail is a stall tactic for him to ensure that whatever skeletal remains exist are so far decomposed that if they are discovered some time during his trial, they will be too far along to link him defnitively. And THAT is my strongest gut feeling about this whole stall tactic.

Hi guys.
I have so little time!!

I think it was posted a couple of a times, but a defense lawyer commented that there is a massive amount of evidence (remember FBI not just LE, the DA, and who knows if State Police were involved too- and then there are those other incidents that he is being accused of but not charged, who knows if that is being looked into as well.). This lawyer also said the judge was going to give the defense as much time as they need, as the defendant has already waived HIS right to a speedy trial, and the defense is actually investigating the investigation, they are not just assessing the discovery to gage if it favors Torres' guilt or not.

The defense could be waiting for additional items to complete their inquiry, or experiencing stonewalling by the State, we just do not know what is being filed an so on, it is not available on line I do not think.

As I have said before, it is my opinion that this is not about pleading out or pleading not guilty, but preparing to request that this is dismissed and/or that a constitutional right has been violated by the investigators.

If he was 'guilty', I mean if his lawyer thought that or felt that the evidence favored that, I think we would have already seen a 'not guilty' plea by now.

Just so I can clarify for me then.... he may be stalling making a plea to see if they can find a loop hole that he can jump through to have it dismissed. K than makes sense if that is what is being said.

justanopinion wrote:Just so I can clarify for me then.... he may be stalling making a plea to see if they can find a loop hole that he can jump through to have it dismissed. K than makes sense if that is what is being said.

Torres has heard the charges against him and he is a criminal defendant now- and there is no way he can get around that. He still has to answer to those charges but that will not change his status as a criminal defendant, and he will not be excused from having to participate in the judicial process one way or another once he offers his answer, whether it is at trial trying to exonerate himself in front of a jury or moving to have a judge dismiss the charges.

There exists the possibility that there is exculpatory evidence, and/or mistakes, or misconduct on the behalf of the investigators.

I did not mean to insinuate that his lawyers were seeking an out to offering him a robust defense.

I think this case at this point is very difficult to comment upon as almost nothing about it's legal proceedings has been made public.

There could be a lot of back and forth going on between the State and the Defense right now as both sides pursue their obligations.
We just do not know.

I just do not see any information that would lead one to speculate that Torres is manipulating the system, getting anything more than the presumption of innocence that he is entitled to, and is not being represented by ethical lawyers.

He is represented by Court appointed attorneys, I believe, with experience in capital crimes.
They are not used car salesmen.

I personally think in the way of pursuing truth for Sierra, the investigation is in the correct hands- the State and the Defense.

Thank you Tamta for your comments!

Does anyone know if there is a limitation on how long a defendant can go without presenting a plea? Is it left to the discretion of the judge?

Lash wrote:Thank you Tamta for your comments!

Does anyone know if there is a limitation on how long a defendant can go without presenting a plea? Is it left to the discretion of the judge?

well, as long as he's off the streets not hurting anyone then i don't care how long he stalls. He can voluntarily stay in there as long as he likes as far I'm concerned.

@ Tamta thank you for all your comments.. it is helpful.
@ Stolat I agree as long as he is off the streets.

however, I am apprehensive about the way this is playing out... (and it may be because of the lack of public knowledge/what is publicized) They talk about the enormous amounts of evidence but my fear is that because there is no body that the evidence or collection of such may have been obtained in a manner that was not the best way to have gotten it. LE is assumed to have followed Torres trying to see if they could track him to where he may have disposed of Sierra. Is that part of what is being questioned? I realize we can't answer that because of the lack of public disclosure but the limbo in this case is unsettling for me!