Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #2

by alabama52 Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:54 pm

WeeBonnie wrote:Fine, let him go but force an admission he CONSPIRED with Shelly to deceive the court. And them put some extra " bracelets" on him.

I think I'd Ask he makes a full confession - that he profiled and stalked this kid and did not have reasonable fear of death, I could live with manslaughter- the full stretch and no time off for good behavior.
And he should empty his account and give all the money (not spent at trial)to the Martins, upon agreement to waive a civil case against him.
Boy that would piss off his supporters, but that's what it would take for his to be resolved in peace. I do not want to see them go after Trayvon.

Stolat wrote:In its forthcoming motion. the defense will argue that Zimmerman should be released on bond because he is not a flight risk.
---
I think the court will see it quite the opposite - I think the mere fact he was hiding funds from the court AND claims it was out of fear -- that shows the plausible assumption that the fear was over his ability to remain safe in hiding and *very well* could have been a flight risk.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-20120607,0,6915904.story

Oh, nooo, because then we would have to hear how he was FORCED to confess to a crime he did not commit. We would never hear the end of it. I want this to go to trial. Of course, there will be those that will never admit that he is guilty even if they have George on surveilance chasing Trayvon and shooting him while Trayvon screams for help!

by WeeBonnie Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:57 pm

I agree in the death threats Deb.
But I do think once he was arrested - and he knew he had the means - he may have fleetingly considered fleeing. I imagine knowing he had that extra passport and the ability to access the funds might have inspired the thought.
But I think once he was free and saw all the monitoring he knew he couldn't pull it off.
No shooting his way out of that one! (hides)

by Tamta Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:01 pm

DebFrmHell wrote:
Stolat wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:
Stolat wrote:Reading more articles about GZ and his "fear" to tell the truth. I don't get it -- what did GZ have to "fear" abou telling the truth that he could indeed put up more money for a bond? He already had a pro-bono lawyer and he already had told his website supporters that the intent for the money was for legal expense (which would include bond) - so why would he not actually use the money for such and lie about it unless he was secretly collecting the money to skip the country? What could he possibly fear unless the fear was more related to his contemplation to flee and go underground? Why else would a person take such huge legal risks and repurcussions to lie in court about their bond money (when they already had a pro-bono lawyer) unless the only reason was that he was nest-piling to disappear?

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/04/12053718-lawyer-says-george-zimmerman-knew-judge-was-misinformed-about-his-finances?lite

Plain old, stupid GREED. GZ has never seen that much money in his life. Notice he didn't have any problem deciding to use those funds to pay off all of his debts. No matter what, he was going to do that. I say it was pure GREED, and MOM is simply trying to gain sympathy by claiming fear. That man isn't afraid of anything except going to jail and dying - those are his main concerns. Period.

ETA: I wish this would happen although I won't hold my breath. MOM and GZ should man up and tell the court that they "F'd up" and see the mistakes that GZ made and it will not happen again. Period. All of this posturing and trying to come up with an excuse for the scheming he and his wife did are only making matters worse, IMO. Just man up GZ.

LOL! Gotcha! You just gave self-defense a boost....

Ain't I just the wit this morning? You need coffee!

And I need a nap!

AHA - ...so he WAS going to skip town then? If MOM plans to use that as a defense he'd be an idiot because all he'd be doing would be to support the assumption that George was going to skip town.

He already was in hiding and the courts knew how to reach him -- so if he was hiding money out of fear of dying and planning on using that money to go into even *deeper* hiding, then that resolves itself to the only assumption left: that the only next level down in terms of hiding would be *completely* off the radar and disappear. MOM would expose himself to that conversation if he uses fear of dying as his defense.

Where are you getting that he was planning to skip town? Morbid curiousity and the fact that I need a nap....

Prior to the Arrest:

Rallies were being held all around the country demanding Justice for Trayvon.

The media demonized him and put out a series of mistruths only slowing down to apologize when they got called out on it. And it wasn't until days or weeks later after it had a chance to fester in people's minds. Not one of the media admitted to an error on their own.

There was the small matter of the WANTED signs put out by the New Black Panthers, a group radical enough that the original Black Panthers distance themselves from them.

There is any number of people that could take on the task of taking him out that are just plain nuts or too emotionally involved in the case.

GZ had about $2700.00 to immediately access before the Murder 2 charge was rendered. He had to know it was coming on some level or he would not have retained a lawyer.

And yet he stayed.

In seclusion and always in contact with LE so they knew where he was. Even Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum couldn't say that. He went rogue on those two. IMO, they did him more harm than good and he was right to do so. He got a very competent lawyer in MOM instead.

In many ways he was facing heat much stronger then than it is now, simply because an arrest was finally made. They see the fruits of their labor, particularly with the rallies, coming to play as this enters into the court system. Many are now willing to see this come to trial.

Whereas I was *joking* around with CN and in an entirely different context than what you chose to read, IMO, he has every reason to fear the death threats. He is in protective custody while in jail. He can't be put into the General Population. I think it is obvious that even LE takes these threats seriously.

And seriously, why would he go on the run from a charge that he believes he is innocent of? No matter how you chose to ignore it, he has facts in evidence that support his claim of self-defense.

In focusing solely on the issue of Bond,
there appears to be no evidence that supports GZ having broken the actual conditions of his bond.

He is accused of allowing false representations of material facts in regard to
the determination of the bond amount.
That is serious and needs to be addressed.

We have learned that MOM has been in possession of his second passport,
and Lester clearly considered the second passport a non-issue, and I am unaware of anything that Lester has said that intimates he thought that GZ was at risk for violating the terms of his release on bond, and therefore being at risk for not attending his trial.

Respectfully thus far, (with out knowing what is really on the series of jail house tapes) there seems to be no clear and convincing evidence in the limited context of the bond issue that would lead Lester to rule that GZ needs to remain in custody in order for him to appear for his trial.

There does however seem ample cause to speculate that a new bond of a higher amount may be determined based on the accurate material facts.
The account seems to be increasing in balance currently.
By 6/29 I wonder what the current balance will be?
Will lester use that to set a new bond amount?

The fact that GZ only paid $5,000 to the Bondsmen does not say to me that he was trying to scam and keep the money for running off.
Bail Bonds are a business and they know the local Defense attys very well, and probably use their own discretion as to how and with whom they can cut some slack.

by Porky Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:13 pm

art tart wrote:
ellejay wrote:http://www.newsmax.com/AlanDershowitz/Zimmerman-Trayvon-Angela-Corey/2012/06/05/id/441305
Dershowitz: Zimmerman Prosecutor Threatening to Sue Harvard for My Criticism

--snipped--

She said that because I work for Harvard and am identified as a professor she had the right to sue Harvard.

When the communications official explained to her that I have a right to express my opinion as “a matter of academic freedom,” and that Harvard has no control over what I say, she did not seem to understand.

She persisted in her nonstop whining, claiming that she is prohibited from responding to my attacks by the rules of professional responsibility — without mentioning that she has repeatedly held her own press conferences and made public statements throughout her career
--more@link--

ellejay, this was an interesting article. I have followed Derchowitz & really enjoyed his book/movie, "Reveral of Fortune," (Sunny Von Bulow case). I am really surprised that Ms. Corey chose to make a threat to Harvard, as Derchowitz pointed out, "he has the right to Freedom of Speech," surely Ms. Corey knows this, in addition, her rant of 40 minutes apparently was recorded, imo, by making this threat has put the criticism back in the news, the very thing she was complaining about. Besides being employed by Harvard, Derschowitz tries some cases, is a legal analyst, & author. imo, Corey can't control what legal analyst comment, anywhere, nor does she have to agree or like it, that is her right.

I do not think that this dust up was spontaneous. I think that these 2 had some history with each other and that this is just a continuum in some long standing beef between them. Politically, they are polar opposites, which I suspect is the source here.

I used to like AD but more and more he has become just another sideline commentator who has become a fossil having not practiced in at least a decade now.

His criticism of Angela had some major holes in it. For one, he pummeled her for filing the probably cause affidavit when there was a photo of Zimmerman's injury out there. But the photo only surfaced the morning of the first hearing which was AFTER the probably cause affidavit was written. Even had Corey been aware of the photo, that of itself does not eliminate Zimmerman as a murder suspect as it is reasonable to believe that Travon may have fought in self defense himself.

But the biggest trump card against Dershowitz's argument is the clear trail of documented lies that Zimmerman has left now. Dershowitz needs to retract some of those statements. I can understand her frustration because this was just not ordinary criticism he went after her career.

by Stolat Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:22 pm

DebFrmHell wrote:
Stolat wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:
Stolat wrote:Reading more articles about GZ and his "fear" to tell the truth. I don't get it -- what did GZ have to "fear" abou telling the truth that he could indeed put up more money for a bond? He already had a pro-bono lawyer and he already had told his website supporters that the intent for the money was for legal expense (which would include bond) - so why would he not actually use the money for such and lie about it unless he was secretly collecting the money to skip the country? What could he possibly fear unless the fear was more related to his contemplation to flee and go underground? Why else would a person take such huge legal risks and repurcussions to lie in court about their bond money (when they already had a pro-bono lawyer) unless the only reason was that he was nest-piling to disappear?

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/04/12053718-lawyer-says-george-zimmerman-knew-judge-was-misinformed-about-his-finances?lite

Plain old, stupid GREED. GZ has never seen that much money in his life. Notice he didn't have any problem deciding to use those funds to pay off all of his debts. No matter what, he was going to do that. I say it was pure GREED, and MOM is simply trying to gain sympathy by claiming fear. That man isn't afraid of anything except going to jail and dying - those are his main concerns. Period.

ETA: I wish this would happen although I won't hold my breath. MOM and GZ should man up and tell the court that they "F'd up" and see the mistakes that GZ made and it will not happen again. Period. All of this posturing and trying to come up with an excuse for the scheming he and his wife did are only making matters worse, IMO. Just man up GZ.

LOL! Gotcha! You just gave self-defense a boost....

Ain't I just the wit this morning? You need coffee!

And I need a nap!

AHA - ...so he WAS going to skip town then? If MOM plans to use that as a defense he'd be an idiot because all he'd be doing would be to support the assumption that George was going to skip town.

He already was in hiding and the courts knew how to reach him -- so if he was hiding money out of fear of dying and planning on using that money to go into even *deeper* hiding, then that resolves itself to the only assumption left: that the only next level down in terms of hiding would be *completely* off the radar and disappear. MOM would expose himself to that conversation if he uses fear of dying as his defense.

Where are you getting that he was planning to skip town? Morbid curiousity and the fact that I need a nap....

Prior to the Arrest:

Rallies were being held all around the country demanding Justice for Trayvon.

The media demonized him and put out a series of mistruths only slowing down to apologize when they got called out on it. And it wasn't until days or weeks later after it had a chance to fester in people's minds. Not one of the media admitted to an error on their own.

There was the small matter of the WANTED signs put out by the New Black Panthers, a group radical enough that the original Black Panthers distance themselves from them.

There is any number of people that could take on the task of taking him out that are just plain nuts or too emotionally involved in the case.

GZ had about $2700.00 to immediately access before the Murder 2 charge was rendered. He had to know it was coming on some level or he would not have retained a lawyer.

And yet he stayed.

In seclusion and always in contact with LE so they knew where he was. Even Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum couldn't say that. He went rogue on those two. IMO, they did him more harm than good and he was right to do so. He got a very competent lawyer in MOM instead.

In many ways he was facing heat much stronger then than it is now, simply because an arrest was finally made. They see the fruits of their labor, particularly with the rallies, coming to play as this enters into the court system. Many are now willing to see this come to trial.

Whereas I was *joking* around with CN and in an entirely different context than what you chose to read, IMO, he has every reason to fear the death threats. He is in protective custody while in jail. He can't be put into the General Population. I think it is obvious that even LE takes these threats seriously.

And seriously, why would he go on the run from a charge that he believes he is innocent of? No matter how you chose to ignore it, he has facts in evidence that support his claim of self-defense.

I missed the part where we have any evidence that GZ never left the country at any time -- we already have indication from earlier lawyers that he may very well have left the state at some point. I have no evidence whatsoever that he "stayed" anywhere for any length of time, so why would I be restricted to form my opinions under such an assumption?

I appreciate your thoughtfulness into your response, and of course you know I know you were joking around, just as my AHA was in exact same tone. Your insistence that he stayed (if in fact that ever happened) would only prove that he didn't lie to the court about the money because he distrusted the stystem. If he trusted the system enough to "stay" then he can't, by the same token, use that as his excuse. Whatever he comes up with to explain it - he's screwed himself. If he claims he's not a flight risk because he stayed in town, then he can't excuse his lie by saying he was filled with distrust. If he says he lied to the court because he was afraid of dying from death threats (as you jokingly suggested that perhaps defense may use that as an excuse) then he opens himself to the notion that he may have been a flight risk. He's screwed no matter what. There's just absolutely no good excuse for his mocking the court system and Lester is not having it.

DebFrmHell wrote:
And seriously, why would he go on the run from a charge that he believes he is innocent of? No matter how you chose to ignore it, he has facts in evidence that support his claim of self-defense.

And he also now has facts in evidence that he is a complete liar.

by Stolat Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:48 pm

Tamta wrote:The fact that GZ only paid $5,000 to the Bondsmen does not say to me that he was trying to scam and keep the money for running off.
Bail Bonds are a business and they know the local Defense attys very well, and probably use their own discretion as to how and with whom they can cut some slack.

Agreed. At the risk of my point completely missing the mark, I am simply postulating that GZ exposes himself at every turn depending on what angle he chooses to defend his actions. Not that he has demonstrated that he is a flight risk -- only that by arguing certain angles, he exposes himself to be side-flanked from the opposite angle.

by DebFrmHell Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:54 pm

The threat of bodily harm or death is the contention for the self-defense. I stated as such clearly above in my post to CN.

LOL! Gotcha! You just gave self-defense a boost

You chose to read it as a reason to go deeper undercover and flee.

Prior to his arrest he was free to come and go as he pleased. He had an active passport. He had funds. He let LE know where he was. If he went to Timbuktu, he would still be well within his rights to do so. Who cares? He came back from wherever he was.

After the arrest and he made bond and has been in compliance with the conditions of his bond. He really had no choice in that matter.

Anywhooooo. This has been reduced to a ridiculous argument for no good reason that I can see.

Naptime!

by marcena2 Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:04 pm

JMO...George was already making alternative plans as early as the 27th.
Let's examine Z's FEAR.

He refused all additional offers of ENT treatment and offer for hospitalization on the 26th, but went to the family doc on the 27th. 'The doctor notes Zimmerman sought an appointment to get legal clearance to return to work'. Huh?! It is not as if Zimmerman worked in a top clearance position. He worked for a mortgage risk management firm Digital Risk. 'While we cannot comment on Mr. Zimmerman's current or future employment status, we can confirm he is not in the building, nor has he been since the incident.' Also, it has been widely reported that George packed up the rental house and headed out of Twin Lakes within days of the shooting.

So keeping in mind that this at least a week PRIOR to Trayvon's family's first contact to Crump or the media:

* George sought authorization to return to work. I haven't seen his medical paperwork but am assuming he got the all clear to return as I haven't seen or heard anything to the contrary. (And by God, if there was ANY report from doctor cautioning to not return to work, MOM would have been waving it in front of the cameras long ago.) IMO this is not what George was looking for. He was working on his exit strategy and was hoping to be able to claim salary thru disability. Again, JMO.

*Gorge never returned to the office. This has been confirmed by the employer. You would think at the very least he would speak to his direct superior in person and pick up his personal effects. No two week notice here. Perhaps he called in. But he basically quit on the spot.

* George packed up his house and moved from Sanford within days of the shooting. The police were still investigating. No charges filed, no Crump on the scene.

George was already in hiding WAY before this got to the media. Way before the Black Panthers. No forwarding address. No work address. Nothing.

IMO George knew he messed up way before anyone had to point it out to him. Way before any social platform was created. These are not actions of a man that had proudly stood his ground. If he felt he was not at fault, he would have kept his job. Stayed in the area. Faced the music.

This is what his fear was IMO. Fear that someone would discover the truth that he killed a kid that night in an unnecessary manner. If you look at the hiding of the money and the passport after the review of the above, his actions totally flow as someone who is in CYA mode. MOM can come up with whatever shiny story he wants as to why George was fearful to speak of the money. Actions speak louder than words.

by marcena2 Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:11 pm

Poor George has a Catch 22. He wants his next bond hearing moved up ASAP to get out of jail. But Judge Lester may want to hear from both himself and Shellie at the same hearing. He may get out with a much higher bond, but Shellie may get arrested on the spot with a felony. I wonder if they will keep Shellie in isolation like George? She didn't pull the trigger so maybe they will put her into general population. One Zimm in, one Zimm out.

by Freckles Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:33 pm

ellejay wrote:http://www.newsmax.com/AlanDershowitz/Zimmerman-Trayvon-Angela-Corey/2012/06/05/id/441305
Dershowitz: Zimmerman Prosecutor Threatening to Sue Harvard for My Criticism

--snipped--

She said that because I work for Harvard and am identified as a professor she had the right to sue Harvard.

When the communications official explained to her that I have a right to express my opinion as “a matter of academic freedom,” and that Harvard has no control over what I say, she did not seem to understand.

She persisted in her nonstop whining, claiming that she is prohibited from responding to my attacks by the rules of professional responsibility — without mentioning that she has repeatedly held her own press conferences and made public statements throughout her career

--more@link--

I listened to Rush today and he mentioned this. He pointed out many in media ARE critical of the handling of this case. As he said, perhaps she should consider suing ALL the media for their comments as well. Further, freedom of speech is a given in this country. He did not feel anyone was slandered; criticized, yes.

by Freckles Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:34 pm

marcena2 wrote:JMO...George was already making alternative plans as early as the 27th.
Let's examine Z's FEAR.

He refused all additional offers of ENT treatment and offer for hospitalization on the 26th, but went to the family doc on the 27th. 'The doctor notes Zimmerman sought an appointment to get legal clearance to return to work'. Huh?! It is not as if Zimmerman worked in a top clearance position. He worked for a mortgage risk management firm Digital Risk. 'While we cannot comment on Mr. Zimmerman's current or future employment status, we can confirm he is not in the building, nor has he been since the incident.' Also, it has been widely reported that George packed up the rental house and headed out of Twin Lakes within days of the shooting.

So keeping in mind that this at least a week PRIOR to Trayvon's family's first contact to Crump or the media:

* George sought authorization to return to work. I haven't seen his medical paperwork but am assuming he got the all clear to return as I haven't seen or heard anything to the contrary. (And by God, if there was ANY report from doctor cautioning to not return to work, MOM would have been waving it in front of the cameras long ago.) IMO this is not what George was looking for. He was working on his exit strategy and was hoping to be able to claim salary thru disability. Again, JMO.

*Gorge never returned to the office. This has been confirmed by the employer. You would think at the very least he would speak to his direct superior in person and pick up his personal effects. No two week notice here. Perhaps he called in. But he basically quit on the spot.

* George packed up his house and moved from Sanford within days of the shooting. The police were still investigating. No charges filed, no Crump on the scene.

George was already in hiding WAY before this got to the media. Way before the Black Panthers. No forwarding address. No work address. Nothing.

IMO George knew he messed up way before anyone had to point it out to him. Way before any social platform was created. These are not actions of a man that had proudly stood his ground. If he felt he was not at fault, he would have kept his job. Stayed in the area. Faced the music.

This is what his fear was IMO. Fear that someone would discover the truth that he killed a kid that night in an unnecessary manner. If you look at the hiding of the money and the passport after the review of the above, his actions totally flow as someone who is in CYA mode. MOM can come up with whatever shiny story he wants as to why George was fearful to speak of the money. Actions speak louder than words.

Interesting comments. Thanks for sharing. Cool

by Porky Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:41 pm

I have never found Rush to be credible but I have not seen the stampede of media people who have been critical of Corey. Of course, we can expect defense attorneys to be critical. I know that Mark Nejame a very noted defense attorney here in Orlando who originally thought that the State had a weak case but has since changed his tune.

I am a bit amazed that one would use Rush Limbaugh off all people as a source in a serious debate. No offense meant.

by Gizmo711 Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:47 pm

WeeBonnie wrote:Fine, let him go but force an admission he CONSPIRED with Shelly to deceive the court. And them put some extra " bracelets" on him.

I think I'd Ask he makes a full confession - that he profiled and stalked this kid and did not have reasonable fear of death, I could live with manslaughter- the full stretch and no time off for good behavior.
And he should empty his account and give all the money (not spent at trial)to the Martins, upon agreement to waive a civil case against him.
Boy that would piss off his supporters, but that's what it would take for his to be resolved in peace. I do not want to see them go after Trayvon.

You just brought something to mind. It could be that Zimmerman is worried about a "wrongful death" suit brought upon him by Trayvons parents.

I think there may have been numerous reasons why Georgie didn't want the money to be found out.

He didn't want to pay his attorney
He didn't want to use it for bail
He wanted to keep it and flee if things weren't going his way
He wouldn't want to be sued and all that money is taken.

It is more money than he ever saw in his life and it could have gotten him far, far away.

Stolat wrote:In its forthcoming motion. the defense will argue that Zimmerman should be released on bond because he is not a flight risk.
---
I think the court will see it quite the opposite - I think the mere fact he was hiding funds from the court AND claims it was out of fear -- that shows the plausible assumption that the fear was over his ability to remain safe in hiding and *very well* could have been a flight risk.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-20120607,0,6915904.story

by Gizmo711 Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:48 pm

My message is somewhere stick in with weebonnie's. Starting with "you just brought something to mind"

up above

by Gizmo711 Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:50 pm

Porky wrote:I have never found Rush to be credible but I have not seen the stampede of media people who have been critical of Corey. Of course, we can expect defense attorneys to be critical. I know that Mark Nejame a very noted defense attorney here in Orlando who originally thought that the State had a weak case but has since changed his tune.

I am a bit amazed that one would use Rush Limbaugh off all people as a source in a serious debate. No offense meant.

The reason that "Mark Nejame" thinks the case is now good for the defense is because he was first asked to represent Zimmerman and he turned them down because he appears on the NG show etc. He is the one that recommended O'Mara. So sure he would have to say that now....

by Gizmo711 Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:15 pm

It was just announced that O'Mara wants George to tell the entire truth in Judge Lester's court room. O'Mara also said that he will be advising Judge Lester that the money that was collected would be going to a very expensive defense and not for a bond. (I knew that was going to happen). He also said that Shellie will probably be asked to take the stand but that she can plead the "fifth".

O'Mara seems to be getting totally peeved at the lies that Zimmerman has been telling. It also shows that O'Mara is not going to take the money from the fund to bail Zimmerman out. The money is going to be used for Zimmermans defense.

Sorry George you wont get rich off of this.....The funds are being spent before they even come in.

by Gizmo711 Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:16 pm

Oh, he also said that the witnesses whose stories were changed will also be under oath and will be expected to tell the truth.

by Porky Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:16 pm

Gizmo. Nejame used to think that it was a good defense case. He is now saying that the defense has some very serious issues. He has changed his tune

by alabama52 Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:22 pm

Gizmo, where are you hearing/reading this? TIA

by WeeBonnie Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:24 pm

Ha ha. I'm starting to feel like I fit in now.

Gizmo711 wrote:My message is somewhere stick in with weebonnie's. Starting with "you just brought something to mind"

up above

by CherokeeNative Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:27 pm

DebFrmHell wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:
Stolat wrote:Reading more articles about GZ and his "fear" to tell the truth. I don't get it -- what did GZ have to "fear" abou telling the truth that he could indeed put up more money for a bond? He already had a pro-bono lawyer and he already had told his website supporters that the intent for the money was for legal expense (which would include bond) - so why would he not actually use the money for such and lie about it unless he was secretly collecting the money to skip the country? What could he possibly fear unless the fear was more related to his contemplation to flee and go underground? Why else would a person take such huge legal risks and repurcussions to lie in court about their bond money (when they already had a pro-bono lawyer) unless the only reason was that he was nest-piling to disappear?

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/04/12053718-lawyer-says-george-zimmerman-knew-judge-was-misinformed-about-his-finances?lite

Plain old, stupid GREED. GZ has never seen that much money in his life. Notice he didn't have any problem deciding to use those funds to pay off all of his debts. No matter what, he was going to do that. I say it was pure GREED, and MOM is simply trying to gain sympathy by claiming fear. That man isn't afraid of anything except going to jail and dying - those are his main concerns. Period.

ETA: I wish this would happen although I won't hold my breath. MOM and GZ should man up and tell the court that they "F'd up" and see the mistakes that GZ made and it will not happen again. Period. All of this posturing and trying to come up with an excuse for the scheming he and his wife did are only making matters worse, IMO. Just man up GZ.

LOL! Gotcha! You just gave self-defense a boost....

Ain't I just the wit this morning? You need coffee!

And I need a nap!

Good try Deb - you are taking my comment out of context and applying it elsewhere - but you know that. So there is no misunderstanding, I was referring to his fear of being shot in the head by some random A-hole who has it out to make himself famous for taking out GZ in turn for Trayvon's life. George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #2 - Page 20 19983

George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #2 - Page 20 19983

Now go get some coffee while I play catch up.

by DebFrmHell Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:16 pm

CherokeeNative wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:
Stolat wrote:Reading more articles about GZ and his "fear" to tell the truth. I don't get it -- what did GZ have to "fear" abou telling the truth that he could indeed put up more money for a bond? He already had a pro-bono lawyer and he already had told his website supporters that the intent for the money was for legal expense (which would include bond) - so why would he not actually use the money for such and lie about it unless he was secretly collecting the money to skip the country? What could he possibly fear unless the fear was more related to his contemplation to flee and go underground? Why else would a person take such huge legal risks and repurcussions to lie in court about their bond money (when they already had a pro-bono lawyer) unless the only reason was that he was nest-piling to disappear?

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/04/12053718-lawyer-says-george-zimmerman-knew-judge-was-misinformed-about-his-finances?lite

Plain old, stupid GREED. GZ has never seen that much money in his life. Notice he didn't have any problem deciding to use those funds to pay off all of his debts. No matter what, he was going to do that. I say it was pure GREED, and MOM is simply trying to gain sympathy by claiming fear. That man isn't afraid of anything except going to jail and dying - those are his main concerns. Period.

ETA: I wish this would happen although I won't hold my breath. MOM and GZ should man up and tell the court that they "F'd up" and see the mistakes that GZ made and it will not happen again. Period. All of this posturing and trying to come up with an excuse for the scheming he and his wife did are only making matters worse, IMO. Just man up GZ.

LOL! Gotcha! You just gave self-defense a boost....

Ain't I just the wit this morning? You need coffee!

And I need a nap!

Good try Deb - you are taking my comment out of context and applying it elsewhere - but you know that. So there is no misunderstanding, I was referring to his fear of being shot in the head by some random A-hole who has it out to make himself famous for taking out GZ in turn for Trayvon's life. Now go get some coffee while I play catch up.

I just got up from my 2 hours nap and am all kinds of fiesty! You drink coffee, I am going to go and try once again to get the bolt off of the lawnmower blade without stripping it! I ((heart)) swearing at the LM.

by Gizmo711 Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:24 pm

Porky wrote:Gizmo. Nejame used to think that it was a good defense case. He is now saying that the defense has some very serious issues. He has changed his tune

Oh, sorry, I thought he was saying it was a good case for the defense.

I'm surprised he is saying that, he is the one that got O'Mara involved in it.

by Gizmo711 Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:28 pm

Porky wrote:Gizmo. Nejame used to think that it was a good defense case. He is now saying that the defense has some very serious issues. He has changed his tune

It was on the local news station. O'Mara is making it very clear that the donation money is going to the defense fund and not to a bond.. I hope Zimmerman heard this....Because he or Shellie wont ever see a penny of this money when O'Mara gets thru.

It has to be killing Zimmerman, that he has to pay for his defense

roflao

by Porky Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:37 pm

Gizmo711 wrote:
Porky wrote:Gizmo. Nejame used to think that it was a good defense case. He is now saying that the defense has some very serious issues. He has changed his tune

Oh, sorry, I thought he was saying it was a good case for the defense.

I'm surprised he is saying that, he is the one that got O'Mara involved in it.

He changed his mind after the WBL thing WBL= whole big lie

by Porky Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:41 pm

Gizmo711 wrote:
Porky wrote:Gizmo. Nejame used to think that it was a good defense case. He is now saying that the defense has some very serious issues. He has changed his tune

It was on the local news station. O'Mara is making it very clear that the donation money is going to the defense fund and not to a bond.. I hope Zimmerman heard this....Because he or Shellie wont ever see a penny of this money when O'Mara gets thru.

It has to be killing Zimmerman, that he has to pay for his defense

Sounds like O'Mara is going to try and ask the court to keep the same bond because his client is essentially "broke".

by CherokeeNative Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:58 pm

Well, I want to open up a website asking for donations to hire the very best experts, perform the best forensic tests, etc. to donate to the prosecution's side - to support the cause and see that justice is made equal through the expenditure of money. Think we can pull that off?

by WeeBonnie Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:14 pm

he's trying to switch the focus too, onto a conversation about whether he's a flight risk and the cost of the bond.....
As if it was the money itself instead of the conspiracy to deceive the court.
He is trying to get everyone to forget about the lies.
I'd be pissed off if I was the judge. And hit Shelley with contempt so fast shed never see it coming.

[quote="Porky"][quote="Gizmo711"]

Porky wrote:
Sounds like O'Mara is going to try and ask the court to keep the same bond because his client is essentially "broke".

by DebFrmHell Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:27 pm

CherokeeNative wrote:Well, I want to open up a website asking for donations to hire the very best experts, perform the best forensic tests, etc. to donate to the prosecution's side - to support the cause and see that justice is made equal through the expenditure of money. Think we can pull that off?

Can I have a percentage? Or maybe a used Lawn Mower?

This case really is breaking new ground for future cases that recieve national attention, IMO. For that reason alone, I think that all parties: the courts, the prosecution, and defense need to tread very lightly down this primrose path as they really are, IMO, setting precedents for the future.

Just in case...IMO!

by WeeBonnie Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:33 pm

I wish I'd seen this earlier Deb!
If you cut a party ballon and place it over the nut, you get a little extra grip with your wrench. It can lessen the stripping.

*Says the girl who's back is messed up because she forgot to take the 15lb wrench out of her purse.*

Sorry for being OT.
Gizmo - so true about Zimmerman and his fears.
God knows he's forgetting the part where they are supposed to be "reasonable".
All GZs fears fall into two categories: inexplicable or you're not going to like the explanation!

DebFrmHell wrote:

I just got up from my 2 hours nap and am all kinds of fiesty! You drink coffee, I am going to go and try once again to get the bolt off of the lawnmower blade without stripping it! I ((heart)) swearing at the LM.

by CherokeeNative Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:49 pm

DebFrmHell wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:Well, I want to open up a website asking for donations to hire the very best experts, perform the best forensic tests, etc. to donate to the prosecution's side - to support the cause and see that justice is made equal through the expenditure of money. Think we can pull that off?

Can I have a percentage? Or maybe a used Lawn Mower?

This case really is breaking new ground for future cases that recieve national attention, IMO. For that reason alone, I think that all parties: the courts, the prosecution, and defense need to tread very lightly down this primrose path as they really are, IMO, setting precedents for the future.

Just in case...IMO!

I agree wholeheartedly with you on that Deb. I can appreciate that it is GZ's right to ask for donations, but it just somehow seems very unethical for the legal field. It is almost like it is making it a competition instead of seeking the truth.... I am not comfortable with the path this is taking. Oh well, just sit back and watch...

by Requiem Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:00 pm

I think O'Mara's assertion about the funds flowing into GZ's trust fund are interesting. Obviously, the terms of the trust are very specific, but GZ can, if he chooses to, change the terms if it is a revokable trust. so he could still screw his defense attorneys depending on the type of trust they established.
I wonder what Judge Lester's take will be on the restricted funds. If I am correct, it really doesn't matter that the money being donated has been designated to pay attorney fees and expenses, it is still income and is part of GZ's net worth. Therefore, wouldn't it be calculated when determining what he should be held to for bond?
I am also assuming at least part of the money continues to be used for GZ's living expenses, which seem to be more than they were pre PayPal. If that is the case, isnt that a misrepresentation as to the exclusivity of the trust fund?
Or maybe not. It could be that one of his benefactors is covering those expenses "off the books".

by WeeBonnie Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:15 pm

I'm wondering if they had some sort of agreement that is non binding and this is MOMs way of letting GZ know he won't be screwed out of it. It could be that they decided the 50K he grabbed up had to last him a certain amount of time.
Pretty much everyone think GZ is shifty with the money- I noticed MOM seemed a little disgusted the 10k on the bond hadn't been paid before it was revoked. He said something like he didn't know why that happened. I wouldn't be shocked if that was supposed to come out of GZs share and hasn't.
I wouldn't be shocked in Shelly wasn blowing through or hiding what they can so they could ask for more!

I agree with Cherokee here, the money aspect is troubling.
I saw Barry Scheck walking down the street the other day, one of OJs lawyers who went on to start the innocence project. They try to save people from death row with DNA and its shocking how poorly defended a lot of these people are. The system is messed up. Public defenders are. It what they should be, you get the justice you pay for it seems. And then I think of GZ who wants a platinum defense for free, so he can squander his money on Pop Tarts. Something really wrong about it, I don't have an answer though.

Requiem wrote:I think O'Mara's assertion about the funds flowing into GZ's trust fund are interesting. Obviously, the terms of the trust are very specific, but GZ can, if he chooses to, change the terms if it is a revokable trust. so he could still screw his defense attorneys depending on the type of trust they established.
I wonder what Judge Lester's take will be on the restricted funds. If I am correct, it really doesn't matter that the money being donated has been designated to pay attorney fees and expenses, it is still income and is part of GZ's net worth. Therefore, wouldn't it be calculated when determining what he should be held to for bond?
I am also assuming at least part of the money continues to be used for GZ's living expenses, which seem to be more than they were pre PayPal. If that is the case, isnt that a misrepresentation as to the exclusivity of the trust fund?
Or maybe not. It could be that one of his benefactors is covering those expenses "off the books".

by Tamta Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:04 pm

Requiem wrote:I think O'Mara's assertion about the funds flowing into GZ's trust fund are interesting. Obviously, the terms of the trust are very specific, but GZ can, if he chooses to, change the terms if it is a revokable trust. so he could still screw his defense attorneys depending on the type of trust they established.
I wonder what Judge Lester's take will be on the restricted funds. If I am correct, it really doesn't matter that the money being donated has been designated to pay attorney fees and expenses, it is still income and is part of GZ's net worth. Therefore, wouldn't it be calculated when determining what he should be held to for bond?
I am also assuming at least part of the money continues to be used for GZ's living expenses, which seem to be more than they were pre PayPal. If that is the case, isnt that a misrepresentation as to the exclusivity of the trust fund?
Or maybe not. It could be that one of his benefactors is covering those expenses "off the books".

Hi Requiem.

Is GZ seen to be making the trust or is he the recipient of it?

by Requiem Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:17 pm

Tamta, I don't know how the trust is set up. However, the money is GZ's so it stands to reason that if it is a revokable trust, he can make changes. The trustee is only responsible for making sure the money in the trust is spent in accordance with the terms of the trust and distributing funds. Along with filing all of the IRS info, etc.

by Tamta Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:25 pm

Requiem wrote:Tamta, I don't know how the trust is set up. However, the money is GZ's so it stands to reason that if it is a revokable trust, he can make changes. The trustee is only responsible for making sure the money in the trust is spent in accordance with the terms of the trust and distributing funds. Along with filing all of the IRS info, etc.

Definitely.
It's income.

I was just plotting different mental paths in exploring his "relationship" to that fund and the subsequent perception of the ethical responsibilities, and possibly differing ones, that would arise from a different relationship to that money.

Trying to anticipate the loopholes that he and MOM could exploit.

I definitely am of the opinion that it should have been disclosed fully by him.

by Freckles Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:41 pm

Requiem wrote:I think O'Mara's assertion about the funds flowing into GZ's trust fund are interesting. Obviously, the terms of the trust are very specific, but GZ can, if he chooses to, change the terms if it is a revokable trust. so he could still screw his defense attorneys depending on the type of trust they established.
I wonder what Judge Lester's take will be on the restricted funds. If I am correct, it really doesn't matter that the money being donated has been designated to pay attorney fees and expenses, it is still income and is part of GZ's net worth. Therefore, wouldn't it be calculated when determining what he should be held to for bond?
I am also assuming at least part of the money continues to be used for GZ's living expenses, which seem to be more than they were pre PayPal. If that is the case, isnt that a misrepresentation as to the exclusivity of the trust fund?
Or maybe not. It could be that one of his benefactors is covering those expenses "off the books".

Good and interesting points you have brought up.

by Requiem Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:04 pm

Here is information on trusts from the IRS websitie. I would love to know what type of trust they have established and who the named beneficiaries are. Maybe we could ask O'Mara on his website. LOL

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=106551,00.html

by Porky Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:09 pm

I wonder who will have the tax liability on these donations?

by Tamta Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:15 pm

Requiem wrote:Here is information on trusts from the IRS websitie. I would love to know what type of trust they have established and who the named beneficiaries are. Maybe we could ask O'Mara on his website. LOL

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=106551,00.html

I put an email out to a friend who deals with a lot of trusts in his practice

Hopefully he can give an idea as to what the options for authority, protecting and accessing this fund

by DebFrmHell Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:41 pm

Porky wrote:I wonder who will have the tax liability on these donations?

That would be George Zimmerman. These funds are his income. He must pay income tax on them.

(Doing this from long ago memory so that it for what it is worth))

Since he has to make quarterly installments, I would think that a portion has already been sent off to IRS or at the least set aside for that first installment/payment. A CPA is running that fund that used to work for IRS, IIRC. ((And IRS doesn't care about how you get the money, they want their share.))

Say for example, he were to pay MOM 50k tomorrow. The fund would issue the check for the total amount due him. MOM would then be liable to pay his income tax on the 50k and the fund would issue out a 1099 at the end of the year. I think it would work that way for any experts that are being brought in, also.

ETA: Those donations are not tax deductible either for those contributing!

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