George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Web sleuths

The Trayvon Martin truth squad: a web phenomenon

By Frances Robles The Miami Herald
Posted on Saturday, 08.04.12

Everybody needs a hobby. For these folks, it’s obsessively digging through evidence and theorizing what really happened.

While other people watch reality shows, a marketing specialist in Michigan who goes by the name “Bcclist” spends time in his yard, calculating Trayvon Martin’s last steps with a tape measure and smartphone stop watch.

He is joined on the Internet by Dave Turner, an Illinois man who had his sons yell in the dark from a distance of 30 feet to see whether he could tell which one cried for help.

Both men are often guided by the work of “Tchoupi,” an engineer with a Ph.D. in physics who has spent countless hours making maps, analyzing witness statements and fleeting headlight patterns in surveillance videos to compute George Zimmerman’s moves the night he killed Trayvon.

The three are among a growing group of people on the Internet so fascinated by the mystery of the killing that captivated the nation that they are out to crack the case themselves. They listen to jailhouse calls, pore over witness statements, study evidentiary documents and measure walking speeds.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/04/2933157/the-trayvon-martin-truth-squad.html#storylink=cpy

All in all, I think that is a good article about the fascination with this case.

Part of the article doesn't explore this...While I find some of the blogs are very insightful, it is always good to check the evidence for yourself. It leads people to believe that there was no blood evidence on Trayvon Martins cuffs and lower regions of the sleeves.

ME-8 is the shirt of Trayvon Martin. There were chemical indications of blood on that shirt for Stains A, B, D, and E. Stain C was negative for the presence of blood.

"Swabbings were collected from the cuff/lower sleeve regions of both arms of on both arms of Exhibit ME-8 to determine the presence of any foreign DNA..

STR DNA analysis was performed on samples from Exhibit ME-8 (Stains A, B, D, E and swabbings from the cuff/lower sleeve regions) utilizing AmpF/STR Profiler Plus and AmpF/STR COfiler PCR Amplification Kits."

Stain A matched the DNA of George Zimmerman. Stain B matched the DNA of Trayvon Martin. Stain D had major and minor contributors and while the DNA couldn't be matched, both Zimmerman and Martin are included as possible contributors. Stain E was matched to the DNA of Martin.

Pages 3-4 of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement Laboratory Results dated march 26th, 2012.

sharona wrote:I think that the bail/bond company guaranteed the 1 million based on certain terms and conditions.

They are on the hook for $900,000 if GZ bolts..

I think GZ will be staying in Seminole County.

I also think this "fear" is baloney.. His parents have gone begging, the sister quit her job.. BTW Daddy Robert's salary and compensation was $196K per year.

Are they for real? 196K a year and they were crying destitute? They were claiming that there wasn't enough equity on their home to take out a large loan on. With an income of 196k a year, at their age and retired, their home should have been paid for in full.

This whole family is just hungry for money and in their mind, why not get it thru this killing of Trayvon Martin. That's just plain greed and uncaring for a human life.

DebFrmHell--
Good to see you!
It is cheaper to operate my computer than my TV.
What's on TV is boring and lacks mental stimulus; this is "live" action that definitely affects our laws, our society, not a piece of reality flake. So unless CSI or Chef Ramsey's on, I will stick to RC.

Gizmo711 wrote:

sharona wrote:I think that the bail/bond company guaranteed the 1 million based on certain terms and conditions.

They are on the hook for $900,000 if GZ bolts..

I think GZ will be staying in Seminole County.

I also think this "fear" is baloney.. His parents have gone begging, the sister quit her job.. BTW Daddy Robert's salary and compensation was $196K per year.

Are they for real? 196K a year and they were crying destitute? They were claiming that there wasn't enough equity on their home to take out a large loan on. With an income of 196k a year, at their age and retired, their home should have been paid for in full.

This whole family is just hungry for money and in their mind, why not get it thru this killing of Trayvon Martin. That's just plain greed and uncaring for a human life.

I don't think the money is for the father and mother. I believe this is another way to get money to George. George can't open up an account so he is going thru daddy. I thought that his Dad was retired, if he is he should be getting retirement money, so why does he need money? I have no idea why his sister would quit her job. In the phone conversations with George, I thought she was talking about her new job that she liked. She didn't sound like she was going to have to quit her job because her brother kill a 17yr. old boy. That doesn't really make since, I think it is a ploy to get more money for George and of course Shirley because she now needs to pay an attorney.

Trayvon Martin's Parents Seek Money From Fla. Fund

By MIKE SCHNEIDER Associated Press
ORLANDO, Fla. August 6, 2012 (AP)

Trayvon Martin's mother has asked for an undisclosed amount of money from a state fund set up to help crime victims with things like funeral expenses and counseling, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

The documents, obtained through a public records request, show Sybrina Fulton applied for the compensation benefits after her son was fatally shot last February by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in a gated community in Sanford, Fla. It was not immediately clear how Martin's family would use the money.

Read more:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/trayvon-martins-parents-seek-money-fla-fund-16939320

Trayvon Martin's Family Files Insurance Claim Over Teen's Death

by Latifah Muhammad
August 6, 2012, 15:32pm


The family of Trayvon Martin filed paperwork against the Retreat at Twin Lakes homeowners association, claiming monetary damages for the shooting death of the teenager, reports the Orlando Sentinel.

Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, is named on the court documents filed last week by Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America. The high school student was staying at the Retreat at Twin Lakes home of his father's girlfriend, when he was shot dead by George Zimmerman. The former neighborhood watch captain alleges that he believed Martin to be suspicious, and was unaware that he was staying in the neighborhood.

Read more:

http://hiphopwired.com/2012/08/06/trayvon-martins-family-files-insurance-claim-over-teens-death/

________


Trayvon Martin family's HOA insurance claim lands in federal court

By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel

1:31 p.m. EST, August 6, 2012

Recent court filings show Sybrina Fulton, mother of Trayvon Martin, has filed a claim for monetary damages against an insurance company for the Retreat at Twin Lakes homeowners association in her 17-year-old son's death.

The insurance claim was revealed in paperwork filed last week by Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America. In those documents, the insurer seeks clarification of its responsibilities in the teen's death and asks a federal judge to absolve Travelers of liability.

Read more:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-08-06/news/os-trayvon-martin-insurance-claim-20120806_1_sybrina-fulton-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman

Insurance Company Doesn't Want To Pay Up Over Trayvon Martin's Death

Abby Rogers | Aug. 6, 2012, 5:30 PM

The insurance company being sued by Trayvon Martin's mother is asking a federal court to declare it isn't responsible for the teen's death.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/insurance-company-doesnt-to-pay-up-over-trayvon-martins-death-2012-8#ixzz22ttGynIb

George Zimmerman lawyer to speak at Orlando gun-rights conference, group says

By Jeff Weiner and Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
5:22 p.m. EST, August 6, 2012

Mark O'Mara, George Zimmerman's lead defense attorney, will speak at gun-rights conference next month in Orlando, according to the Second Amendment Foundation, one of the organizations hosting the event.

The 27th annual Gun Rights Policy Conference will be held at the Hyatt Regency Orlando International Airport hotel Sept. 28-30, according the SAF website. The foundation's main office in Washington confirmed O'Mara's planned attendance.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-08-06/news/os-george-zimmerman-omara-gun-conference-20120806_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-mark-o-mara

Well, the fund is there to assist victims and their families.
Despite the dignified composure of the Martin family, this is the worst tragedy a family could endure. I imagine it would be near impossible to work and earn an income for financial obligations. I hope the Martin family is helped and there is a generous out-pouring of assistance for them.

The housing development should have insurance. While they may not want to pry open their fingers and let go the money, they ARE a third party and the insurance should pay up. Contracts should be inspected.

Freckles wrote:Well, the fund is there to assist victims and their families.
Despite the dignified composure of the Martin family, this is the worst tragedy a family could endure. I imagine it would be near impossible to work and earn an income for financial obligations. I hope the Martin family is helped and there is a generous out-pouring of assistance for them.

The housing development should have insurance. While they may not want to pry open their fingers and let go the money, they ARE a third party and the insurance should pay up. Contracts should be inspected.

I agree with everything you say. I would assume that it is more traumatic for the family of the victim then it is for the accused. Trayvon's parents also cannot work at this point. I would also like to see donations flow their way instead of the accused way.

O'Mara is desperate, that money that was earlier donated spoiled him and he wants more and more. It doesn't matter to him if anyone knows how he gets it, just like his client doesn't care as long as he gets that money. I hope those donors came to their senses and saw George for what he really is.

I also agrre that the insurance company should hold some responsibility for the way Trayvon was killed. They knew about the citizens patrol and did not try to organize it better, therefore the complex is at large fault here and their insurance company should pay.

Freckles wrote:Well, the fund is there to assist victims and their families.
Despite the dignified composure of the Martin family, this is the worst tragedy a family could endure. I imagine it would be near impossible to work and earn an income for financial obligations. I hope the Martin family is helped and there is a generous out-pouring of assistance for them.

The housing development should have insurance. While they may not want to pry open their fingers and let go the money, they ARE a third party and the insurance should pay up. Contracts should be inspected.

The housing development new about the neighborhood watched, they knew that George was captain. They sent emails that if people were having problems with crime to call good old George. The knew that George was patrolling the neighborhood because several people complain to the housing development at their meeting. They know this is not what neighborhood watch is supposed to do, yet they allowed it to happen with no emails to George to stop patrolling and questioning people on why they were there in the neighborhood.

I went thru all of that to say yes I agree with you . They should be held responsible for what happen to Trayvon. IMO they played a big part in what happened. If they where having so much crime they could have hired security(of duty police) like they do down here, but they choose to use George.

Did management at the complex have a choice in having Neighbourhood watch in the complex? Or is this done by the people who live there? Who has to sanction it? How are these groups done.... If I wanted to organize a neighbourhood watch in my community who do I contact? OOPS sorry but I have always been suspicious of the signs that say "Neighbourhood Watch" community..

justanopinion wrote:Did management at the complex have a choice in having Neighbourhood watch in the complex? Or is this done by the people who live there? Who has to sanction it? How are these groups done.... If I wanted to organize a neighbourhood watch in my community who do I contact? OOPS sorry but I have always been suspicious of the signs that say "Neighbourhood Watch" community..

I think when you have a home owners association that everything that is done has to go thru them first. That is how I understand HOA, there are some that you are not even allowed to plant what you want in your gardens, it has to be from an approve list. I know of someone that is moving where their is HOA and they have a list of plants that they can use to cover up the air conditioner, and it needs to be covered because they don't want the outside air conditioner showing.

not that this is the best resource but looking at the NW for different areas.. it seems that one of the requirements is that the Local Law enforcement are part of the start up.. at least here in Ontario.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_watch
http://www.usaonwatch.org/

The neighborhood watch system gained intense media attention after the February, 2012, fatal shooting of teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain.[3] Zimmerman, who wasn't acting in his neighborhood watch role at the time of the shooting, claimed self-defense and has been charged with second-degree murder in the case.[4] His actions on the night of the shooting generated controversy as he left his vehicle to pursue Martin and was carrying a gun, both of which go against neighborhood watch recommendations.[5][6] He has also been accused by prosecutors of profiling Martin,[4] and he is being investigated by the U.S. Justice Department for possibly committing a racial hate crime.[7] Martin was black and Zimmerman is a mixed-race Hispanic.[3]
In another incident involving a neighborhood watch, Eliyahu Werdesheim, part of an Orthodox Jewish community in Maryland, was convicted in May 2012 of second-degree assault and false imprisonment for beating and then pinning down a teenager he thought suspicious in 2010. Werdersheim and his brother, who had also been charged in the case but was acquitted, chose a bench trial, contending they wouldn't get a fair trial due to the publicity over the Martin case.[8].[9] He was given a three-year suspended sentence and three years of probation at sentencing in June 2012.[10]
A June 2012 New York Times article reported that neighborhood watches in the New York City area are growing again after decades of decrease due to lower crime rates. It also said that neighborhood watch groups feel under scrutiny since the Martin shooting.[11]
In response to the Trayvon Martin case, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) began drafting a bill that would require neighborhood watch groups to be certified and limit their duties. Currently, with local police agencies setting guidelines for their neighborhood watches, groups across the U.S. vary greatly in their scope, function, the level of activity by their members, and training. Robert McCrie, professor of security management at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City, disagrees with Lee's initiative. He believes that standards for neighborhood watches “are best left to the state or local community,” although he would support background checks for volunteers.[9]

From what I have been reading all over the net... there are recommendations... none that I have read says there can't be a patrol... just that there doesn't need to be...
I find it interesting that there needs to be a bill drafted to limit the scope and that currently volunteers do not need to have a background check..
I guess my thinking is that although George and most likely a few others are vigilantes NW is a tool that they use to justify their behaviour. What I am reading is that NW is just about increasing your familiarity with who does and does not belong in your neighbourhood and treating your neighbour like a friend. So that you act like what formerly was a good neighbour and not distance yourself.

Tracy Martin went back to work yesterday:

http://twitter.com/BTraymartin9

bob kealing‏@bobkealing

#Zimmerman update: His attorney Mark O'Mara says they still have not decided whether to appeal Judge Lester's refusal to step down.


http://twitter.com/bobkealing/

Zimmerman Defense Files Motion to Continue

on 07 August 2012.

The Court granted the defense team’s Motion to Continue, which postpones the Docket Sounding scheduled on Wednesday August 8 until October 3. The purpose of a Docket Sounding is to provide the Court with an update regarding the progress of the case, and to establish a timeline for official legal proceedings, whether that be motion hearings, disposition, or trial.

http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/41-zimmerman-defense-files-motion-to-continue
________

Order granting the Motion to Continue

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Order%20Continuing%20Case.pdf

justanopinion wrote:Did management at the complex have a choice in having Neighbourhood watch in the complex? Or is this done by the people who live there? Who has to sanction it? How are these groups done.... If I wanted to organize a neighbourhood watch in my community who do I contact? OOPS sorry but I have always been suspicious of the signs that say "Neighbourhood Watch" community..

IMO, I don't know whether they knew or not, or even if said knowledge was relevant. Perhaps, the HOA has something specified within that states all such "policing" activities should be approved by the HOA. I dunno.

here IS insurance, however, upon the property. THAT needs to be addressed.
A "wrongful death by another HOA member against a guest" should be covered. Trayvon was NOT in the commission of any crime. HOA, while perhaps a third party, is held accountable, IMO.

GEORGEZIMMERMAN
LEGAL CASE

Press Release

There Will Be A "Stand Your Ground" Hearing in the George Zimmerman Case

on 09 August 2012.

Since the beginning, there has been a rush to judgement in the case against George Zimmerman. Since the first day of his involvement, Mr. O’Mara has emphasized that people should be patient and wait for the evidence to be released before forming opinions about the case.

Now that the State has released the majority of their discovery, the defense asserts that there is clear support for a strong claim of self-defense. Consistent with this claim of self-defense, there will be a “Stand Your Ground” hearing.

In the case against George Zimmerman, a “Stand Your Ground” hearing will essentially be a mini-trial. Most of the arguments, witnesses, experts, and evidence that the defense would muster in a criminal trial will be presented in the “Stand Your Ground” hearing.

Read more:

http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases

bob kealing ‏@bobkealing
#Zimmerman defense releases statement confirming intent to ask for Stand Your Ground hearing. But will they ask for a new judge to hear it?

https://twitter.com/bobkealing

bob kealing ‏@bobkealing
#breaking #Zimmerman defense says in light of state's evidence they will ask for Stand Your Ground hearing. Will take "months" to prepare.

https://twitter.com/bobkealing

Alessandra_Deux wrote:GEORGEZIMMERMAN
LEGAL CASE

Press Release

There Will Be A "Stand Your Ground" Hearing in the George Zimmerman Case

on 09 August 2012.

Since the beginning, there has been a rush to judgement in the case against George Zimmerman. Since the first day of his involvement, Mr. O’Mara has emphasized that people should be patient and wait for the evidence to be released before forming opinions about the case.

Now that the State has released the majority of their discovery, the defense asserts that there is clear support for a strong claim of self-defense. Consistent with this claim of self-defense, there will be a “Stand Your Ground” hearing.

In the case against George Zimmerman, a “Stand Your Ground” hearing will essentially be a mini-trial. Most of the arguments, witnesses, experts, and evidence that the defense would muster in a criminal trial will be presented in the “Stand Your Ground” hearing.

Read more:

http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases

Alessandra - TY. Wow! I didn't think this was going to happen.

IMO, O'Mara is all about the donations. A SYG hearing is exactly what audiences like the nuts at Treehouse want to hear. O'Mara anticipates the dollars will be rolling in now. He even states that it will take months to prepare to let them know that he will need 'tons' of money.

alabama52 wrote:IMO, O'Mara is all about the donations. A SYG hearing is exactly what audiences like the nuts at Treehouse want to hear. O'Mara anticipates the dollars will be rolling in now. He even states that it will take months to prepare to let them know that he will need 'tons' of money.

I would think giving away the defense strategy unnecessarily would be far more costly than losing some donations.

He could still apply for indigent status for Zimmerman if the funds were exhausted.

Tamta wrote:

alabama52 wrote:IMO, O'Mara is all about the donations. A SYG hearing is exactly what audiences like the nuts at Treehouse want to hear. O'Mara anticipates the dollars will be rolling in now. He even states that it will take months to prepare to let them know that he will need 'tons' of money.

I would think giving away the defense strategy unnecessarily would be far more costly than losing some donations.

He could still apply for indigent status for Zimmerman if the funds were exhausted.

Hi, Tamta. True, but O'Mara will not get rich if Zimmerman becomes indigent.
The donations have really fallen. It will be interesting to see if they start going up now.
If they do, I suppose O'Mara could change his mind down the road & not do the SYG hearing? In other words, he could say he decided to go forth with the SYG hearing to get lots of donations and then back off that plan?

alabama52 wrote:

Tamta wrote:
I would think giving away the defense strategy unnecessarily would be far more costly than losing some donations.

He could still apply for indigent status for Zimmerman if the funds were exhausted.

Hi, Tamta. True, but O'Mara will not get rich if Zimmerman becomes indigent.
The donations have really fallen. It will be interesting to see if they start going up now.
If they do, I suppose O'Mara could change his mind down the road & not do the SYG hearing? In other words, he could say he decided to go forth with the SYG hearing to get lots of donations and then back off that plan?

They do get paid considerably less if the client is approved indigent.
I think MOM's practice will prosper from the publicity.

I think MOM sees the evidence really supports with a preponderance that GZ did not have a duty to retreat or was unable to. The State has not produced anything to refute that.

If SYG is denied, he can still achieve a SYG or SD jury instruction at trial with a lower standard of evidence, reasonable doubt.

Also, not knowing what will come with Lester's decision to refuse recusal, the defense possesses the appeal card as well.

I think in regards to the law, MOM must see the win win of the situation.

He perhaps is working to protect his client from civil proceedings and maybe is considering pursuing them on Zimmerman's behalf.

There are quite a few options on the table for the defense.

MOO.

Thank you tamta. Nicely said. I agree.
khintx
(a nut)

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-08-09/news/os-george-zimmerman-new-evidence-20120809_1_trayvon-martin-death-of-unarmed-teenager-george-zimmerman-case

"Special Prosecutor Angela Corey's office today released 76 new pages of evidence in the George Zimmerman second-degree murder case, including dozens of pages of records the state did not intend to make public.

The new documents included a grainy photo depicting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin's body, George Zimmerman's school records, from high school and Seminole State College, and his application for the Seminole County sheriff's Citizens Law Enforcement Academy.

The Orlando Sentinel is not publishing the photo of the teen's body.

Among the new information revealed: Authorities found the teen's blood on the bag of Skittles he had in his pocket. They also found a red lighter among his belongings."


The bold is mine. The blood found on the Skittles bag is interesting. Would first responders be likely to stuff the bag into TM's pocket?

Tamta wrote:

alabama52 wrote:
Hi, Tamta. True, but O'Mara will not get rich if Zimmerman becomes indigent.
The donations have really fallen. It will be interesting to see if they start going up now.
If they do, I suppose O'Mara could change his mind down the road & not do the SYG hearing? In other words, he could say he decided to go forth with the SYG hearing to get lots of donations and then back off that plan?

They do get paid considerably less if the client is approved indigent.
I think MOM's practice will prosper from the publicity.

I think MOM sees the evidence really supports with a preponderance that GZ did not have a duty to retreat or was unable to. The State has not produced anything to refute that.

If SYG is denied, he can still achieve a SYG or SD jury instruction at trial with a lower standard of evidence, reasonable doubt.

Also, not knowing what will come with Lester's decision to refuse recusal, the defense possesses the appeal card as well.

I think in regards to the law, MOM must see the win win of the situation.

He perhaps is working to protect his client from civil proceedings and maybe is considering pursuing them on Zimmerman's behalf.

There are quite a few options on the table for the defense.

MOO.

Huh? Are you saying that Zimmerman might have a civil claim himself? What would his claim be? What were his damages and who might he possibly name as the defendant?

Porky wrote:

Tamta wrote:
They do get paid considerably less if the client is approved indigent.
I think MOM's practice will prosper from the publicity.

I think MOM sees the evidence really supports with a preponderance that GZ did not have a duty to retreat or was unable to. The State has not produced anything to refute that.

If SYG is denied, he can still achieve a SYG or SD jury instruction at trial with a lower standard of evidence, reasonable doubt.

Also, not knowing what will come with Lester's decision to refuse recusal, the defense possesses the appeal card as well.

I think in regards to the law, MOM must see the win win of the situation.

He perhaps is working to protect his client from civil proceedings and maybe is considering pursuing them on Zimmerman's behalf.

There are quite a few options on the table for the defense.

MOO.

Huh? Are you saying that Zimmerman might have a civil claim himself? What would his claim be? What were his damages and who might he possibly name as the defendant?

To start, prima fascie claim against NBC for misediting and releasing the misedited 911.

Tamta wrote:

Porky wrote:

Huh? Are you saying that Zimmerman might have a civil claim himself? What would his claim be? What were his damages and who might he possibly name as the defendant?

To start, prima fascie claim against NBC for misediting and releasing the misedited 911.

What were his damages? News organizations mis print stuff all the time. They retracted the information no? To sue, you have to show damages.

New evidence released in Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case

by Joy-Ann Reid | August 9, 2012 at 4:27 PM

http://thegrio.com/2012/08/09/new-evidence-released-in-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-case/

George Zimmerman Evidence Mistakenly Released In Trayvon Martin Case

The Huffington Post | Posted: 08/09/2012 7:21 pm Updated: 08/09/2012 7:33 pm

The State Attorney’s Office prosecuting the case against George Zimmerman, who is charged with second-degree murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, mistakenly released a trove of evidence on Thursday that included a grainy photo of Martin’s body and Zimmerman’s college transcript.

Not long after Special Prosecutor Angela Corey's office sent an email to media outlets with the evidence attached, the office issued a statement asking reporters to "please disregard and do not use the information contained in the initial e-mail. It was inadvertently attached."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/george-zimmerman-evidence_n_1762383.html?utm_hp_ref=trayvon-martin

Porky wrote:

Tamta wrote:

To start, prima fascie claim against NBC for misediting and releasing the misedited 911.

What were his damages? News organizations mis print stuff all the time. They retracted the information no? To sue, you have to show damages.

Well for starters how about the bounty that the Black Panthers put on his head?

kh

khintx wrote:

Porky wrote:

What were his damages? News organizations mis print stuff all the time. They retracted the information no? To sue, you have to show damages.

Well for starters how about the bounty that the Black Panthers put on his head?

kh

That's like saying that if the black panthers had succeeded in killing George, the panthers could have blamed NBC. Uh, uh.

Florida Statutes

Self Defense and Florida's Stand Your Ground Law

The Florida legislature has recently enacted a law that permits you to stand your ground, anywhere, anytime, you are attacked.

This new law expands upon Florida's preexisting castle doctrine and permits one to stand their ground anywhere. Florida Statutes 776.032(1) then holds in pertinent part:

A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force.

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

Precisely why no civil action has been initiated against Zimmerman ( yet) . The civil attorneys will wait until the SYG dust settles.

State's 6th Supplemental Discovery

76 Pages

Released August 9, 2012

http://www.clickorlando.com/blob/view/-/16038334/data/2/-/15lgmq9z/-/Zimmerman-new-discovery.pdf

Why George Zimmerman’s SYG Defense Won’t Stand

by Valhall
August 10, 2012

Irrespective of which of the myriad of versions George Zimmerman has given on the events that led to him shooting Trayvon Martin dead and which you want to hang your hat on, not a single one of them equates to a successful Stand Your Ground defense. The reason I feel confident in saying that is that the Florida Stand Your Ground law is a DEFENSIVE law which allows both for the Castle Doctrine (protecting yourself and any other occupants of your house or vehicle from an intruder), and when not in your home allowing you, as long as you have an issued Conceal Carry License (CCL) to “stand your ground” (i.e. not have to flee) when someone threatens your life or someone else’s and deadly force is required. Unfortunately, for every single one of George Zimmerman’s versions of what occurred the night he shot Trayvon Martin, not a single one of them fall within the DEFENSIVE envelope of the Florida Stand Your Ground law.

Read more: http://thehinkymeter.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/why-george-zimmermans-syg-defense-wont-stand/

That is a great article by val (as usual!).

I wonder though if you have read this one:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article1222930.ece

It sites cases of SYG defenses that seem CRAZY to me yet were successfully litigated in Florida.

Your thoughts?
kh

khintx wrote:That is a great article by val (as usual!).

I wonder though if you have read this one:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article1222930.ece

It sites cases of SYG defenses that seem CRAZY to me yet were successfully litigated in Florida.

Your thoughts?
kh

The Garcia case cannot be used as an example to illustrate why Zimmerman defense under the Florida Stand Your Ground Law might work. The difference between that case and the Martin/Zimmerman case is that Trayvon had the legal right be where he was at the time Zimmerman "spotted" him.

Trayvon was not engaged in an unlawful activity when Zimmerman reported him to the police as a suspicious character.

Trayvon was not committing a felonious act by walking back from the convenience store to the place where he was staying in the same neighborhood where Zimmerman lived, both of them had the legal right to be there.

Zimmerman did not have the legal right to engage in the pursuit of someone who was not violating the law.

Zimmerman is not a law enforcement official, his only duty as a neighborhood watchman was to report suspicious activities to the police, not to engage in the pursuit and arrest of someone that he perceived as "suspicious".

The advantage that Garcia has over Zimmerman is that the burglar broke into his car and stole his radio, under the Castle Doctrine, he was protecting his property when he went after the man and stabbed him to death.

O'Mara can't use the Garcia case as a case law, the case doesn't have anything to do with what happened in the gated community the night that Trayvon Martin was fatally shot by George Zimmerman.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

khintx wrote:That is a great article by val (as usual!).

I wonder though if you have read this one:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article1222930.ece

It sites cases of SYG defenses that seem CRAZY to me yet were successfully litigated in Florida.

Your thoughts?
kh

The Garcia case cannot be used as an example to illustrate why Zimmerman defense under the Florida Stand Your Ground Law might work. The difference between that case and the Martin/Zimmerman case is that Trayvon had the legal right be where he was at the time Zimmerman "spotted" him.

Trayvon was not engaged in an unlawful activity when Zimmerman reported him to the police as a suspicious character.

Trayvon was not committing a felonious act by walking back from the convenience store to the place where he was staying in the same neighborhood where Zimmerman lived, both of them had the legal right to be there.

Zimmerman did not have the legal right to engage in the pursuit of someone who was not violating the law.

Zimmerman is not a law enforcement official, his only duty as a neighborhood watchman was to report suspicious activities to the police, not to engage in the pursuit and arrest of someone that he perceived as "suspicious".

The advantage that Garcia has over Zimmerman is that the burglar broke into his car and stole his radio, under the Castle Doctrine, he was protecting his property when he went after the man and stabbed him to death.

O'Mara can't use the Garcia case as a case law, the case doesn't have anything to do with what happened in the gated community the night that Trayvon Martin was fatally shot by George Zimmerman.

You are correct, both of these gentlemen had every legal right to be where they were up to and including the "T" intersection. The charged crime begins at the "T."

Justice4all wrote:Why George Zimmerman’s SYG Defense Won’t Stand

by Valhall
August 10, 2012

Irrespective of which of the myriad of versions George Zimmerman has given on the events that led to him shooting Trayvon Martin dead and which you want to hang your hat on, not a single one of them equates to a successful Stand Your Ground defense. The reason I feel confident in saying that is that the Florida Stand Your Ground law is a DEFENSIVE law which allows both for the Castle Doctrine (protecting yourself and any other occupants of your house or vehicle from an intruder), and when not in your home allowing you, as long as you have an issued Conceal Carry License (CCL) to “stand your ground” (i.e. not have to flee) when someone threatens your life or someone else’s and deadly force is required. Unfortunately, for every single one of George Zimmerman’s versions of what occurred the night he shot Trayvon Martin, not a single one of them fall within the DEFENSIVE envelope of the Florida Stand Your Ground law.

Read more: http://thehinkymeter.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/why-george-zimmermans-syg-defense-wont-stand/

I am of the understanding, GZ will be required to take the stand and to answers questions presented by the prosecution.
And this testimony may be used in the trial.

Am I correct in my understanding?

Justice4all wrote:Why George Zimmerman’s SYG Defense Won’t Stand

by Valhall
August 10, 2012

Irrespective of which of the myriad of versions George Zimmerman has given on the events that led to him shooting Trayvon Martin dead and which you want to hang your hat on, not a single one of them equates to a successful Stand Your Ground defense. The reason I feel confident in saying that is that the Florida Stand Your Ground law is a DEFENSIVE law which allows both for the Castle Doctrine (protecting yourself and any other occupants of your house or vehicle from an intruder), and when not in your home allowing you, as long as you have an issued Conceal Carry License (CCL) to “stand your ground” (i.e. not have to flee) when someone threatens your life or someone else’s and deadly force is required. Unfortunately, for every single one of George Zimmerman’s versions of what occurred the night he shot Trayvon Martin, not a single one of them fall within the DEFENSIVE envelope of the Florida Stand Your Ground law.

Read more: http://thehinkymeter.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/why-george-zimmermans-syg-defense-wont-stand/

J4A, thanks for sharing the link for Valhall's article. Always well thought out, fairly written & researched, Valhall never disappoints sharing her perspective of the facts in a case. I continue to be amazed at her insight.

I hope this isn't a tactic/ploy to delay the trial of GZ, MOM is claiming the preparation is going to take months, since the criminal trial comes after the SYG hearing, it pushes the cases into 2013, justice delayed imo for TM & his family. Although GZ deserves a fair & zealous defense, I wish MOM had decided against the SYG defense as he clearly understands Fla. Law. I thought KC should have taken a PLEA for the murder of Caylee, I guess sometimes defendants are willing to go forward with some of the defenses & claim & convince themselves they are guilty of nothing, sadly, sometimes it works as we observed in Caylee's case, some attorney's are willing to do anything to see their client go free, even lie, imo.

DebFrmHell wrote:

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

The Garcia case cannot be used as an example to illustrate why Zimmerman defense under the Florida Stand Your Ground Law might work. The difference between that case and the Martin/Zimmerman case is that Trayvon had the legal right be where he was at the time Zimmerman "spotted" him.

Trayvon was not engaged in an unlawful activity when Zimmerman reported him to the police as a suspicious character.

Trayvon was not committing a felonious act by walking back from the convenience store to the place where he was staying in the same neighborhood where Zimmerman lived, both of them had the legal right to be there.

Zimmerman did not have the legal right to engage in the pursuit of someone who was not violating the law.

Zimmerman is not a law enforcement official, his only duty as a neighborhood watchman was to report suspicious activities to the police, not to engage in the pursuit and arrest of someone that he perceived as "suspicious".

The advantage that Garcia has over Zimmerman is that the burglar broke into his car and stole his radio, under the Castle Doctrine, he was protecting his property when he went after the man and stabbed him to death.

O'Mara can't use the Garcia case as a case law, the case doesn't have anything to do with what happened in the gated community the night that Trayvon Martin was fatally shot by George Zimmerman.

You are correct, both of these gentlemen had every legal right to be where they were up to and including the "T" intersection. The charged crime begins at the "T."

As per the arrest affidavit, the criminal action began at the entrance of Retreat View Circle when Zimmerman initiated the 911 call, profiled Trayvon as a criminal, got out of his car and followed him when he started to run. The audio and the transcript of that call was used by the prosecution to show probable cause for the arrest warrant.

Against the police dispatcher's advice, instead of waiting in his car for the police to arrive, Zimmerman went to look for Martin. Trayvon was fatally shot 70 yards from the house where he was staying, and approximately 50 yards from the 'T'.

The 'T' is a crucial point of reference, not just because the crime took place within that perimeter, but because it is very difficult for Zimmerman to explain why he ended up there. He has offered several versions as to why he went behind Twin Trees into to the backyard area between the town houses where he has claimed was attacked by Martin and ended up killing him.

I don't think that he has to take the stand in a Dennis hearing. MOM has physical evidence and witnesses that he can use in place of his testimony. The Hannity interview could come into play also.

If there wasn't then I don't think GZ would have the option. He would have to take the stand. And there is also the Fifth Amendment issue.

The burden of proof is a different standard, too. For the SYG it is a preponderance of evidence for the Defense. Whereas in a trial, the Prosecution has to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

O'Mara will hold a news conference next Monday (tomorrow), apparently he has an important announcement to make.

"He has an announcement and news conference scheduled Monday, but his office would not provide details."

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

DebFrmHell wrote:

You are correct, both of these gentlemen had every legal right to be where they were up to and including the "T" intersection. The charged crime begins at the "T."

As per the arrest affidavit, the criminal action began at the entrance of Retreat View Circle when Zimmerman initiated the 911 call, profiled Trayvon as a criminal, got out of his car and followed him when he started to run. The audio and the transcript of that call was used by the prosecution to show probable cause for the arrest warrant.

Against the police dispatcher's advice, instead of waiting in his car for the police to arrive, Zimmerman went to look for Martin. Trayvon was fatally shot 70 yards from the house where he was staying, and approximately 50 yards from the 'T'.

The 'T' is a crucial point of reference, not just because the crime took place within that perimeter, but because it is very difficult for Zimmerman to explain why he ended up there. He has offered several versions as to why he went behind Twin Trees into to the backyard area between the town houses where he has claimed was attacked by Martin and ended up killing him.

Getting out of his truck is not illegal. Following the path that TM took is not illegal. In the NEN, he admits to following and say OK after the Dispatcher's request. The wind noise stops after the 2:38ish mark. He had no idea where TM was and wouldn't give out his full address because of it.

The "depraved mind" is what the state is using, in part, to get that Murder 2 charge. I don't know that they can prove that. I think they were relying on the DOJ or The FBI for help in that matter and that came back negative. IMO, he was overcharged and I think there are political ramifications for that. The State knew that manslaughter was be a lesser included charge in jury instructions.

Even if the SYG is a fail, and frankly I think it will be*, there are a lot of pluses to going through it. Testimony from experts and witnesses will be locked in. And I think that even if it goes to trial, SYG can be included in the jury instructions, also, along with self-defense.

*I don't think any judge that wants to continue being a judge would let GZ walk on the SYG. Those are elected positions. Lester, or whoever, will "kick that can" to a jury.

Hummmm. I wonder what he has to say Monday. Maybe it will have something to do with the evidence that was "accidentally" released last week.

DebFrmHell wrote:

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

As per the arrest affidavit, the criminal action began at the entrance of Retreat View Circle when Zimmerman initiated the 911 call, profiled Trayvon as a criminal, got out of his car and followed him when he started to run. The audio and the transcript of that call was used by the prosecution to show probable cause for the arrest warrant.

Against the police dispatcher's advice, instead of waiting in his car for the police to arrive, Zimmerman went to look for Martin. Trayvon was fatally shot 70 yards from the house where he was staying, and approximately 50 yards from the 'T'.

The 'T' is a crucial point of reference, not just because the crime took place within that perimeter, but because it is very difficult for Zimmerman to explain why he ended up there. He has offered several versions as to why he went behind Twin Trees into to the backyard area between the town houses where he has claimed was attacked by Martin and ended up killing him.

Getting out of his truck is not illegal. Following the path that TM took is not illegal. In the NEN, he admits to following and say OK after the Dispatcher's request. The wind noise stops after the 2:38ish mark. He had no idea where TM was and wouldn't give out his full address because of it.

The "depraved mind" is what the state is using, in part, to get that Murder 2 charge. I don't know that they can prove that. I think they were relying on the DOJ or The FBI for help in that matter and that came back negative. IMO, he was overcharged and I think there are political ramifications for that. The State knew that manslaughter was be a lesser included charge in jury instructions.

Even if the SYG is a fail, and frankly I think it will be*, there are a lot of pluses to going through it. Testimony from experts and witnesses will be locked in. And I think that even if it goes to trial, SYG can be included in the jury instructions, also, along with self-defense.

*I don't think any judge that wants to continue being a judge would let GZ walk on the SYG. Those are elected positions. Lester, or whoever, will "kick that can" to a jury.

Hummmm. I wonder what he has to say Monday. Maybe it will have something to do with the evidence that was "accidentally" released last week.

BBM.

Fact.

Also i would expect in arguing if Zimmerman was in reasonable, legal fear to justify not retreating, the moments most contemporaneous to the physical struggle between Trayvon and Zimmerman will be the focus of SYG arguments.

Tamta wrote:

DebFrmHell wrote:

Getting out of his truck is not illegal. Following the path that TM took is not illegal. In the NEN, he admits to following and say OK after the Dispatcher's request. The wind noise stops after the 2:38ish mark. He had no idea where TM was and wouldn't give out his full address because of it.

The "depraved mind" is what the state is using, in part, to get that Murder 2 charge. I don't know that they can prove that. I think they were relying on the DOJ or The FBI for help in that matter and that came back negative. IMO, he was overcharged and I think there are political ramifications for that. The State knew that manslaughter was be a lesser included charge in jury instructions.

Even if the SYG is a fail, and frankly I think it will be*, there are a lot of pluses to going through it. Testimony from experts and witnesses will be locked in. And I think that even if it goes to trial, SYG can be included in the jury instructions, also, along with self-defense.

*I don't think any judge that wants to continue being a judge would let GZ walk on the SYG. Those are elected positions. Lester, or whoever, will "kick that can" to a jury.

Hummmm. I wonder what he has to say Monday. Maybe it will have something to do with the evidence that was "accidentally" released last week.

BBM.

Fact.

Also i would expect in arguing if Zimmerman was in reasonable, legal fear to justify not retreating, the moments most contemporaneous to the physical struggle between Trayvon and Zimmerman will be the focus of SYG arguments.

If you read W6, he says that Zimmerman was trying to rise up which could be a retreat. He was adamant that Martin was on top, Zimmerman was on the bottom. And that they moved from grass to concrete. The only thing that really changed IMO is who was yelling for help. He said that he could see his mouth but that since GZ was "losing" common sense told him that he would be the one calling for help. (paraphrasing because I have to leave for work)

I think it says a lot that after W6 said he was calling 911 that the altercation didn't stop.

And while much is made of Zimmerman and picking apart his whereabouts to the second, there is still the missing two minutes for Martin's movements. I cannot figure out a logical reason for him to be at that "T." After 2:08 of the NEN there was no sighting of him. GZ simply said that "he ran."

Gotta Jet! Later.