Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

by KimmyK Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:49 pm

art tart wrote:
KimmyK - shared:
Or the recent publicity by Team GZ, the 'graphic color' pictures, the lawsuit, the motion GZ should be 'free' to roam about Florida? Does this not 'taint' a jury pool as well?

It's unfortunate that BDLR/A Corey CHOSE to with hold the colored digital photos of GZ in the beginning of the case as that is the time so much WRONG information was released and GZ's injuries were argued/debated as to how serious they were and opinions formed being influenced by NBC, Crump, Countless news agencies, and many others. These photos could have been turned over to the Defense last March, but ONLY after MOM had to file a Motion to get the freaking photos were they released. Outrageous! They were with held for a reason, it's clear as to the reason for most of us.

[/b] The behavior of the State is appalling imo, we didn't see the unprofessional behavior in KC's case, the Prosecutor's were top notch, imo. In this case, as the Prosecutor's case slowly unravels as more information is forced by the Defense to be released. Its gotten harder and harder for the Defense to get an UNEDITED audio tape from BDLR, he incapable of producing the tape unedited, or audible apparently, OUTRAGEOUS imo. BDLR's character or competence imo, is in question, repeated mistakes revealing confidential information is too a problem he seems to be challenged with. Judge N is going to get to the bottom of this kind of outrageous behavior, it's embarrassing and unprofessional on the State's behalf, imo. IF the State imo had CONFIDENCE in their case, they should have no problem producing honest discovery with out the Defense having to continually file Motions to Compel.

Team GZ has the pictures on their site but EVERY MEDIA outlet is entitled to these photos and ran them as well as National Media Outlets, you are familiar with the Sunshine Laws in Fla. I assume and know that MEDIA is entitled to the photos and if they don't get them,they sue to get them, NOT just Team GZ rec'd the photos. Don't blame GZ's Team for getting needed photos for their case, if you don't like it, write a letter complaining about the SUNSHINE Laws, but don't blame GZ's defense for getting vital information. It isn't GZ's Team that tainted the Jury pool, it's the MEDIA outlets that run information and some of it incorrect, non stop, though, as much more information has come out, many news agency have backed off.

It is the job of the DEFENSE to file needed MOTIONS just like the MOTION to Compel 3rd party, or Crump to turn over the audio of DeeDee, as well as anything else they need to prepare their case. Do you begrudge GZ the right to needed information for his Defense Team? If you do, then you don't want a fair trial in this case. IF the State had turned this information over to start with, there were be no reason for the Defense to have to continue to bring Motions to compel the State for production of information. If you have a problem with the Defense filing Motions, that's about you, it has nothing to do with the Defense MOM/West are preparing in the Defense of GZ. That doesn't taint the jury pool, but WRONG information promoted relentlessly and grandstanding opportunistic attorney's such as CRUMP/Team promoting incorrect/inaccurate information is a real problem imo. By the time the COLORED photos of GZ's injuries were released, many uninformed people had already convicted GZ.

The State released the photos of GZ to the Defense, but every single news outlet is allowed the pictures, I know you know that, it is the right of the PRESS/MEDIA to get those copies and include in countless news stories.
I have to believe you understand that. Though GZ's defense team is entitled to the photos, so is the MEDIA that published them.

As for the photos, why they were not taken by the same camera as the other evidence photos were?
IMO, the photos are questionable, and why they were taken on Wagner's cellphone just doesn't add up. Why?
My perception of this case is, had GZ never got out of his car, and waited for police to arrive, he wouldn't be in this situation. Then, he ran and hid so fast after the fact, imo, looks like a guilty conscience to me. The media knew nothing of this case at that point.
As I stated before, I'm all for gun rights, but what he did that night was imo, just plain stupid on his part, especially, for someone with criminal justice training... All so he could stop what he percieved in his mind as someone who LOOKED suspicious? Stupid, just plain stupid, imo.

by Guest Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:02 pm

Perception and opinions aren't facts. If the photos were questionable, they would NOT have been turned over in discovery, A Cory/BDLR would make that claim. The State GLADLY turned over the grainy black and whites, and yes indeed, the color digital photos IN FACT do match up with the grainy photos. This is the same bull chit Allen Derchowitz criticized Angela Corey for, she's FINALLY been forced to release them, and yet you are unhappy.

Clearly you have convicted GZ as is your right but there are many American's, and some on this thread, that just want a FAIR/HONEST trial for GZ as is his right under our Judicial System. Like it or not, he has the presumption of innocent UNTIL proven GUILTY and the right to a zealous defense.. Clearly GZ could have made some better choices, but those still harping about "he should have stayed in the truck, yadayadayada, understand it was not illegal, nor a defense the State can claim was illegal.

I do not accept the bull chit or underhanded corrupt MEDIA contributions or the Crump Team that have a vested interest, in some cases that have MISLED many people not following the case closely and following all the evidence, but the tide has turned as far as everyone believing the initial reports by the MEDIA or the Crump Team. Evidence has changed a lot of opinions of those seeking JUSTICE in this case, for Trayvon and GZ. They both are entitled to JUSTICE. The lawsuit against NBC, imo, is the tip of the iceberg in the exposing of the depths some people or outlets were willing to go to have public opinion support their view, but more importantly, imo, has put the those IRRESPONSIBLE that they too are going to be called out.

I too wonder if BDLR who edits tapes attended the same undergraduate college as the FIRED NBC employees, they are in Fla. too, maybe they all took an AUDIO editing class together. All DISHONEST! Birds of a feather. I hope BDLR gets reprimanded in the next Court hearing as he deserves it on many issues. imo.

by Tamta Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:52 pm

KimmyK wrote:I was not making it about race.
I was making a point that GZ's lawsuit is about how NBC edited the 911 call, and coincidentally GZ's lawyers ALSO edit the 911 call themselves in the complaint. In fact, leaving out a rather 'unfavorable' part of GZ's conversation. If you compare the transcript with the complaint, it is quite obvious. That's all. How convenient.

Please post a link to the recording of the NEN call edited by the defense, and as for '**** punks' not appearing in the motion, it is mostly likely because what Zimmerman said at the moment is not established as undisputed fact before the court, it is simply that the State is not putting it forth as a racial slur, so O'Mara nor West would include it.

by Tamta Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:53 pm

KimmyK wrote:
art tart wrote:The MEDIA + Team Crump/Associates put forth the perception of Zimmerman making racial slurs imo and in the case of Team Crump, repeatedly calling GZ a "racist murderer on National TV," something that is not a fact and an attack on GZ, a clear attempt imo to taint the jury pool. The case is not about race despite all those trying to boost ratings and make it about race. imo. There are many contributors to the perception created about GZ, it wouldn't surprise me to see many more suits filed. I read an article listing all the mis-information generated in the press & Team Crump about GZ and it was shocking. I still don't see how a jury can be pick an untainted jury in this case with all the negative publicity that has been generated against GZ. But they can pick a jury at any cost and will.

A lawsuit hasn't been filed against Team Crump YET, imo, it may well come near the end of the trial so Crump can't scream just as Cindy Ant screamed, "their trying to shut us up." The fact in the Anthony case is they lived off the MEDIA payments, and they weren't going to shut up.

Or the recent publicity by Team GZ, the 'graphic color' pictures, the lawsuit, the motion GZ should be 'free' to roam about Florida? Does this not 'taint' a jury pool as well?

How?
The GPS device answered the risk of flight.

by Tamta Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:58 pm

KimmyK wrote:
art tart wrote:

It's unfortunate that BDLR/A Corey CHOSE to with hold the colored digital photos of GZ in the beginning of the case as that is the time so much WRONG information was released and GZ's injuries were argued/debated as to how serious they were and opinions formed being influenced by NBC, Crump, Countless news agencies, and many others. These photos could have been turned over to the Defense last March, but ONLY after MOM had to file a Motion to get the freaking photos were they released. Outrageous! They were with held for a reason, it's clear as to the reason for most of us.

[/b] The behavior of the State is appalling imo, we didn't see the unprofessional behavior in KC's case, the Prosecutor's were top notch, imo. In this case, as the Prosecutor's case slowly unravels as more information is forced by the Defense to be released. Its gotten harder and harder for the Defense to get an UNEDITED audio tape from BDLR, he incapable of producing the tape unedited, or audible apparently, OUTRAGEOUS imo. BDLR's character or competence imo, is in question, repeated mistakes revealing confidential information is too a problem he seems to be challenged with. Judge N is going to get to the bottom of this kind of outrageous behavior, it's embarrassing and unprofessional on the State's behalf, imo. IF the State imo had CONFIDENCE in their case, they should have no problem producing honest discovery with out the Defense having to continually file Motions to Compel.

Team GZ has the pictures on their site but EVERY MEDIA outlet is entitled to these photos and ran them as well as National Media Outlets, you are familiar with the Sunshine Laws in Fla. I assume and know that MEDIA is entitled to the photos and if they don't get them,they sue to get them, NOT just Team GZ rec'd the photos. Don't blame GZ's Team for getting needed photos for their case, if you don't like it, write a letter complaining about the SUNSHINE Laws, but don't blame GZ's defense for getting vital information. It isn't GZ's Team that tainted the Jury pool, it's the MEDIA outlets that run information and some of it incorrect, non stop, though, as much more information has come out, many news agency have backed off.

It is the job of the DEFENSE to file needed MOTIONS just like the MOTION to Compel 3rd party, or Crump to turn over the audio of DeeDee, as well as anything else they need to prepare their case. Do you begrudge GZ the right to needed information for his Defense Team? If you do, then you don't want a fair trial in this case. IF the State had turned this information over to start with, there were be no reason for the Defense to have to continue to bring Motions to compel the State for production of information. If you have a problem with the Defense filing Motions, that's about you, it has nothing to do with the Defense MOM/West are preparing in the Defense of GZ. That doesn't taint the jury pool, but WRONG information promoted relentlessly and grandstanding opportunistic attorney's such as CRUMP/Team promoting incorrect/inaccurate information is a real problem imo. By the time the COLORED photos of GZ's injuries were released, many uninformed people had already convicted GZ.

The State released the photos of GZ to the Defense, but every single news outlet is allowed the pictures, I know you know that, it is the right of the PRESS/MEDIA to get those copies and include in countless news stories.
I have to believe you understand that. Though GZ's defense team is entitled to the photos, so is the MEDIA that published them.

As for the photos, why they were not taken by the same camera as the other evidence photos were?
IMO, the photos are questionable, and why they were taken on Wagner's cellphone just doesn't add up. Why?
My perception of this case is, had GZ never got out of his car, and waited for police to arrive, he wouldn't be in this situation. Then, he ran and hid so fast after the fact, imo, looks like a guilty conscience to me. The media knew nothing of this case at that point.
As I stated before, I'm all for gun rights, but what he did that night was imo, just plain stupid on his part, especially, for someone with criminal justice training... All so he could stop what he percieved in his mind as someone who LOOKED suspicious? Stupid, just plain stupid, imo.

I am not sure why an LEO officer taking photo at the scene, and then handing it over to the Prosecution, with his cellphone troubles you so much.

His deposition will most likely provide details as to why he used that device to document the earliest moments of Zimmerman's injuries, which correspond to investigative reports that his nose was bleeding, which have already been posted for your review last week.

You are antagonistic to Zimmerman and have already decided to not see any exculpatory evidence as credible.

If anyone manipulated the photo, it would the SA office, if you were to believe the chain of custody regarding that photo.

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:47 pm

art tart wrote:Perception and opinions aren't facts. If the photos were questionable, they would NOT have been turned over in discovery, A Cory/BDLR would make that claim. The State GLADLY turned over the grainy black and whites, and yes indeed, the color digital photos IN FACT do match up with the grainy photos. This is the same bull chit Allen Derchowitz criticized Angela Corey for, she's FINALLY been forced to release them, and yet you are unhappy.

Clearly you have convicted GZ as is your right but there are many American's, and some on this thread, that just want a FAIR/HONEST trial for GZ as is his right under our Judicial System. Like it or not, he has the presumption of innocent UNTIL proven GUILTY and the right to a zealous defense.. Clearly GZ could have made some better choices, but those still harping about "he should have stayed in the truck, yadayadayada, understand it was not illegal, nor a defense the State can claim was illegal.

I do not accept the bull chit or underhanded corrupt MEDIA contributions or the Crump Team that have a vested interest, in some cases that have MISLED many people not following the case closely and following all the evidence, but the tide has turned as far as everyone believing the initial reports by the MEDIA or the Crump Team. Evidence has changed a lot of opinions of those seeking JUSTICE in this case, for Trayvon and GZ. They both are entitled to JUSTICE. The lawsuit against NBC, imo, is the tip of the iceberg in the exposing of the depths some people or outlets were willing to go to have public opinion support their view, but more importantly, imo, has put the those IRRESPONSIBLE that they too are going to be called out.

I too wonder if BDLR who edits tapes attended the same undergraduate college as the FIRED NBC employees, they are in Fla. too, maybe they all took an AUDIO editing class together. All DISHONEST! Birds of a feather. I hope BDLR gets reprimanded in the next Court hearing as he deserves it on many issues. imo.

The investigative file that contained the "black and white grainy picture" was turned over to the prosecution by FDLE, after O'Mara received the first discovery files, he asked for color pictures, they were provided to him by the prosecution.

During the last hearing, O'Mara told the judge that he wanted the entirety of the FDLE files; native files/digital discovery by FDLE.

The prosecution was not "sitting on evidence" as the defense have suggested.

From Zimmerman's defense website:

"This is a photo of George Zimmerman taken by a police officer on the night of February 26, 2012. A black and white photocopy of this image was provided by the State in the first Discovery. This high-resolution digital file was finally provided to the defense on October 29, 2012. This image was disclosed in the State's 9th Supplemental Discovery."

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/67-george-zimmerman-photograph

He failed to say that the digital file was requested by the prosecution from the FDLE after the last hearing took place, and the judge signed a proposed order.

George Zimmerman Hearing 10/26 - Part 2

by Guest Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:57 pm

Why did MOM even have to ask for colored photos or high resolution to start with? Seems common sense that the State would know the Defense needed those photos, but, UNTIL they are ask to do so, the State is going to continue to do the minimal, and in some cases, not even the minimal they can to cooperate.

Kimmy claimed the high resolution photos tainted the jury pool by MOM/GZ defense team, which is absurd, the evidence is what the evidence is, any media outlet can get copies of the photos once released.

I have little expectations of this State Prosecution team, they continue to show, as in the editing of the tape, they can't be trusted to produce evidence effectively. imo.

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:02 pm

art tart wrote:Why did MOM even have to ask for colored photos or high resolution to start with? Seems common sense that the State would know the Defense needed those photos, but, UNTIL they are ask to do so, the State is going to continue to do the minimal, and in some cases, not even the minimal they can to cooperate.

Kimmy claimed the high resolution photos tainted the jury pool by MOM/GZ defense team, which is absurd, the evidence is what the evidence is, any media outlet can get copies of the photos once released.

I have little expectations of this State Prosecution team, they continue to show, as in the editing of the tape, they can't be trusted to produce evidence effectively. imo.

What tape was edited by the prosecution?

by Guest Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:07 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
art tart wrote:Why did MOM even have to ask for colored photos or high resolution to start with? Seems common sense that the State would know the Defense needed those photos, but, UNTIL they are ask to do so, the State is going to continue to do the minimal, and in some cases, not even the minimal they can to cooperate.

Kimmy claimed the high resolution photos tainted the jury pool by MOM/GZ defense team, which is absurd, the evidence is what the evidence is, any media outlet can get copies of the photos once released.

I have little expectations of this State Prosecution team, they continue to show, as in the editing of the tape, they can't be trusted to produce evidence effectively. imo.

What tape was edited by the prosecution?

The tape BDLR provided to the Defense of Crumps interview of DeeDee EDITING OUT her age of 18 yrs. old, and it was bearly audible. HENCE, the MOTION to COMPEL 3rd party, which is Crump for the original tape in which he has REFUSED to provide. Judge Nelson is going to rule this at the next hearing.

If you recall, Team Crump & even BDLR have talked about the tender age of 16 yrs. old of DeeDee, an outright bald face lie. BDLR wouldn't even provide the Defense DeeDee's address as they claimed she was a minor.

by Guest Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:13 pm

Lawyers for George Zimmerman have accused a Florida prosecutor of deliberately hiding evidence!

Lawyers for George Zimmerman have accused a Florida prosecutor of deliberately hiding evidence, which they say is frustrating their attempts to build a strong self-defence argument for their client over the death of teenager Trayvon Martin.

The claim relates to a new colour photograph of Zimmerman's facial injuries taken soon after the neighbourhood watch captain shot and killed Martin, 17, during a confrontation at a gated community in Sanford in February.

The picture was released by the Duval County state attorney's office only after months of asking and the intervention of a judge, Zimmerman's lawyer Mark O'Mara said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/05/george-zimmerman-lawyer-trayvon-photo-release

George Zimmerman’s defense lawyers say prosecutors are deliberately dragging their feet, and accused the Duval County State Attorney of delaying — and even hiding — evidence that suggests their client is innocent.

It took months and the judge’s intervention for lawyers to get a vivid color copy of Zimmerman’s bloody injuries. The defense didn’t find out about witnesses who had helpful information until recently, and attorneys learned of a police officer’s full role in the case by word of mouth.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/12/04/3126803/zimmerman-defense-prosecutors.html#storylink=cpy

There are countless articles on this subject.

by Guest Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:13 pm

If you read the MOTION TO COMPEL 3rd Party, B Crump, Don West spells out the difficulty of getting this information from the State and B Crump.

Although B Crump provided an audio to BDLR, the copy that the Defense rec'd was 1/2 of the length of time the phone conversation was of B Crump and DeeDee. The editing and splicing was evident as West points out in the Motion. BDLR claimed ignorance, that he couldn't force Crump to turn over the original audio but that is a lie, as West points out, there is no such law that prevents BDLR from getting the original audio. Again, why is BDLR claiming ignorance?

imo, there is a clear conflict of interest between the State and the Crump Team. Hopefully, Judge N compels gum flapping Crump to produce the audio or be held in contempt. Crump had no problem holding a news conference while waving his recording device and claims of "blowing GZ's self defense theory out of the water with the audio, Crump had no problem for ABC Gutman to attend the audio interview and Gutman's ass't from ABC news, ABC news advertised the tape as an "exclusive," but the Defense can't seem to get the important audio tape and interview w/DeeDee.

This really stinks, imo, I am really, really surprised by the lack of cooperation from the State and BDLR's willingness to claim ignorance of the law, but I am not surprised by the games Crump has played.. West also states that this behavior could delay the timeline set up for GZ's trial. imo, this shouldn't be so laborious on GZ's attorney's, after all, a trial is a SEARCH for the truth but apparently some aren't seeking the truth. imo. Crump continues to boast that "he is standing ready to cooperate" but that is just another lie, he isn't cooperating but perhaps Judge N can compel him to cooperate.

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:17 pm

What O'Mara is saying in the media to push his agenda to the public and what happens inside the courtroom during the motion hearings are two different stories, a vivid example of that was the 10/26 hearing. There is absolutely no proof that the State has acted improperly or unethically, none, whatsoever.

I am going to wait until after the December 11 hearing take place to further discuss the issues that were raised by the motions.

by Guest Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:22 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:What O'Mara is saying in the media to push his agenda to the public and what happens inside the courtroom during the motion hearings are two different stories, a vivid example of that was the 10/26 hearing. There is absolutely no proof that the State has acted improperly or unethically, none, whatsoever.

I am going to wait until after the December 11 hearing take place to further discuss the issues that were raised by the motions.

Much of what MOM has alleged is included in this MOTION. The unethical behavior of the State is included in the Motion.

If you haven't read the MOTION to Compel 3rd party, it is important you do so as West listed several examples of the lack of cooperation and with holding information they need to prepare their defense. Clearly, you can read the accusations the Defense is alleging the State has acted improperly and we will see Judge Nelson's rulings. imo, she isn't going to DENY the Defense the information they need and allow the foolery that has taken place to go on.

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:50 pm

art tart wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:What O'Mara is saying in the media to push his agenda to the public and what happens inside the courtroom during the motion hearings are two different stories, a vivid example of that was the 10/26 hearing. There is absolutely no proof that the State has acted improperly or unethically, none, whatsoever.

I am going to wait until after the December 11 hearing take place to further discuss the issues that were raised by the motions.

Much of what MOM has alleged is included in this MOTION. The unethical behavior of the State is included in the Motion.

If you haven't read the MOTION to Compel 3rd party, it is important you do so as West listed several examples of the lack of cooperation and with holding information they need to prepare their defense. Clearly, you can read the accusations the Defense is alleging the State has acted improperly and we will see Judge Nelson's rulings. imo, she isn't going to DENY the Defense the information they need and allow the foolery that has taken place to go on.

A motion alleging that the State has acted improperly is not evidence that it actually happened.

by Tamta Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:51 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
art tart wrote:Perception and opinions aren't facts. If the photos were questionable, they would NOT have been turned over in discovery, A Cory/BDLR would make that claim. The State GLADLY turned over the grainy black and whites, and yes indeed, the color digital photos IN FACT do match up with the grainy photos. This is the same bull chit Allen Derchowitz criticized Angela Corey for, she's FINALLY been forced to release them, and yet you are unhappy.

Clearly you have convicted GZ as is your right but there are many American's, and some on this thread, that just want a FAIR/HONEST trial for GZ as is his right under our Judicial System. Like it or not, he has the presumption of innocent UNTIL proven GUILTY and the right to a zealous defense.. Clearly GZ could have made some better choices, but those still harping about "he should have stayed in the truck, yadayadayada, understand it was not illegal, nor a defense the State can claim was illegal.

I do not accept the bull chit or underhanded corrupt MEDIA contributions or the Crump Team that have a vested interest, in some cases that have MISLED many people not following the case closely and following all the evidence, but the tide has turned as far as everyone believing the initial reports by the MEDIA or the Crump Team. Evidence has changed a lot of opinions of those seeking JUSTICE in this case, for Trayvon and GZ. They both are entitled to JUSTICE. The lawsuit against NBC, imo, is the tip of the iceberg in the exposing of the depths some people or outlets were willing to go to have public opinion support their view, but more importantly, imo, has put the those IRRESPONSIBLE that they too are going to be called out.

I too wonder if BDLR who edits tapes attended the same undergraduate college as the FIRED NBC employees, they are in Fla. too, maybe they all took an AUDIO editing class together. All DISHONEST! Birds of a feather. I hope BDLR gets reprimanded in the next Court hearing as he deserves it on many issues. imo.

The investigative filed that contained the "black and white grainy picture" was turned over to the prosecution by FDLE, after O'Mara received the first discovery files, he asked for color pictures, they were provided to him by the prosecution.

During the last hearing, O'Mara told the judge that he wanted the entirety of the FDLE files; native files/digital discovery by FDLE.

The prosecution was not "sitting on evidence" as the defense have suggested.

From Zimmerman's defense website:

"This is a photo of George Zimmerman taken by a police officer on the night of February 26, 2012. A black and white photocopy of this image was provided by the State in the first Discovery. This high-resolution digital file was finally provided to the defense on October 29, 2012. This image was disclosed in the State's 9th Supplemental Discovery."

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/67-george-zimmerman-photograph

He failed to say that the digital file was requested by the prosecution from the FDLE after the last hearing took place, and the judge signed a proposed order.

George Zimmerman Hearing 10/26 - Part 2

Snipped:
"He failed to say that the digital file was requested by the prosecution from the FDLE after the last hearing took place, and the judge signed a proposed order. "

--------

Maybe because the State asking FDLE for it does not mean that they never had it, but gives them the chance to act like they didn't.

Attorneys sandbag each other, especially at the expense of the defense be ause the rules of best evidence allow for it.

Also the digital rendition is unarguably very supportive to Zimmerman's claim.

It's totally understandable why Corey would not release it.

by Guest Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:58 pm

Yes, Judge Nelson's ruling will validate if information has been with held from the Defense that is important to their case... Her ruling will validate either the State or the Defense, my bet is that the State is ordered to turn over the information unedited as well as Crump. I don't think you can claim to be ignorant of the law, as BDLR has, in not demanding the Original Audio be turned over. LOL!

I don't know if the MOTION to Compel 3rd party embarrassed the State, but it should have imo.

http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/motion_to_compel.pdf

by Tamta Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:15 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
art tart wrote:

Much of what MOM has alleged is included in this MOTION. The unethical behavior of the State is included in the Motion.

If you haven't read the MOTION to Compel 3rd party, it is important you do so as West listed several examples of the lack of cooperation and with holding information they need to prepare their defense. Clearly, you can read the accusations the Defense is alleging the State has acted improperly and we will see Judge Nelson's rulings. imo, she isn't going to DENY the Defense the information they need and allow the foolery that has taken place to go on.

A motion alleging that the State has acted improperly is not evidence that it actually happened.

Facts and circumstances cited on the motions are potentially.

Review page 8 footnotes, Motion to Compel Third Party.

by Tamta Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:33 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:What O'Mara is saying in the media to push his agenda to the public and what happens inside the courtroom during the motion hearings are two different stories, a vivid example of that was the 10/26 hearing. There is absolutely no proof that the State has acted improperly or unethically, none, whatsoever.

I am going to wait until after the December 11 hearing take place to further discuss the issues that were raised by the motions.

Maybe you don't know this yet, but it turns out that DeeDee/Witness 8 is not and was not a minor as prior put forth by Crump, Gutman, and the State:

"16 year old girl".

That's pretty improper: falsehood >>> fraud.

by Guest Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:42 pm

Tamta wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:What O'Mara is saying in the media to push his agenda to the public and what happens inside the courtroom during the motion hearings are two different stories, a vivid example of that was the 10/26 hearing. There is absolutely no proof that the State has acted improperly or unethically, none, whatsoever.

I am going to wait until after the December 11 hearing take place to further discuss the issues that were raised by the motions.

Maybe you don't know this yet, but it turns out that DeeDee/Witness 8 is not and was not a minor as prior put forth by Crump, Gutman, and the State:

"16 year old girl".

That's pretty improper: falsehood >>> fraud.

In addition, BDLR conveniently edited out DeeDee's actual age of 18 yrs. old in the first copy of the audio that was obviously edited and inaudible in parts when given to the Defense.

BDLR wouldn't provide the Defense with DeeDee's address BECAUSE she was of the tender age of 16, a mere minor.

imo, there is no doubt the State has acted unethically in providing the Audio to the Defense, that's WHY the Defense is going around BDLR/State, and asking the Court to Compel Crump to turn over the audio. The State has proven unwilling to do so, although, the law states this is evidence in a murder trial and there are no exceptions.

This has been going back and forth with out cooperation from the State since late March 2012, for 9 months, ALTHOUGH, ABC advertised the audio as an "exclusive." Outrageous, and the Defense can't even get an audible copy without filing a MOTION asking the Judge to FORCE Crump to turn it over as it is evidence.

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:46 pm

Tamta wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:What O'Mara is saying in the media to push his agenda to the public and what happens inside the courtroom during the motion hearings are two different stories, a vivid example of that was the 10/26 hearing. There is absolutely no proof that the State has acted improperly or unethically, none, whatsoever.

I am going to wait until after the December 11 hearing take place to further discuss the issues that were raised by the motions.

Maybe you don't know this yet, but it turns out that DeeDee/Witness 8 is not and was not a minor as prior put forth by Crump, Gutman, and the State:

"16 year old girl".

That's pretty improper: falsehood >>> fraud.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I would like to know when, and where (as in a document), the State has discussed Dee Dee's age.

by DebFrmHell Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:50 pm

And oldie but goodie from Alan D.
Dershowitz went further and said that Cory helped to create the hysteria.

She was appointed to stop race riots. That was her job. And as she put it, to do justice to Trayvon Martin. Not to do justice to George Zimmerman, not to do justice period. Just to do justice to the alleged victim in this case. She has a terrible reputation in Florida for always over-charging, and she was picked specifically for that… No jury – except one frightened that the New Black Panthers might kill them if they vote for an acquittal or that they might cause race riots – no fair jury would find anyone guiltily here of second degree murder.

Via Media-ite
www.twitlonger.com/show/k9skq9

ETA: Looks like he was right all along.

by KimmyK Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:05 pm

Had to leave for a bit, starting to catch back up, sorry.

by Tamta Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:16 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
Tamta wrote:

Maybe you don't know this yet, but it turns out that DeeDee/Witness 8 is not and was not a minor as prior put forth by Crump, Gutman, and the State:

"16 year old girl".

That's pretty improper: falsehood >>> fraud.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I would like to know when, and where (as in a document), the State has discussed Dee Dee's age.

Why would they put it in a document?????

by Guest Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:33 pm

Tamta wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:

I don't know if this is true or not, but I would like to know when, and where (as in a document), the State has discussed Dee Dee's age.

Why would they put it in a document?????

Jeralyn, Owner of Talk Left and Criminal Defense Attorney has the backgbround on DeeDee and the AUDIO tape in question in which over and over Team Crump/ABC News claims DeeDee is 16 yrs. old.

Tue Oct 23, 2012 - is the date of this article and BEFORE it has been disclosed DeeDee's real age of 18 years old.

Jeralyn questions WHY the State didn't subpoena ABC's audio tape as it sounds perfectly CLEAR and played in their segments on ABC to a National audience and advertised as "exclusive, the only outlet t have the story." Gutman, too, interviewed DeeDee the week Crump interviewed her yet there is no information on the interview available to the Defense. Jeralyn too questions WHY ABC News attended this interview between Crump and DeeDee and why the STATE hasn't gotten this information or subpoenaed it. imo, I really have to question WHY ABC was there unless there was a financial angle and promoting Crump's agenda, it isn't objective reporting, again.

imo, Gutman and his ass't from ABC are next to get subpoena's, possibly even the audio if Crump conveniently claims his copy is destroyed or lost, I don't put anything past him, least of all to lie some more.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/10/23/195459/60

Sounds like BDLR has been played by the Crump Team imo and he has been a willing participant and even making excuses for them.

(of course Sunny Hosstin of IN Session/HLN/CNN participated in promoting this lie with Natalie Jackson and others.)

If ABC News has pulled some of the same type of dishonesty NBC news has participated in, they too may find themselves participants in a law suit.

by KimmyK Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:52 pm

art tart wrote:Perception and opinions aren't facts. If the photos were questionable, they would NOT have been turned over in discovery, A Cory/BDLR would make that claim. The State GLADLY turned over the grainy black and whites, and yes indeed, the color digital photos IN FACT do match up with the grainy photos. This is the same bull chit Allen Derchowitz criticized Angela Corey for, she's FINALLY been forced to release them, and yet you are unhappy.

Clearly you have convicted GZ as is your right but there are many American's, and some on this thread, that just want a FAIR/HONEST trial for GZ as is his right under our Judicial System. Like it or not, he has the presumption of innocent UNTIL proven GUILTY and the right to a zealous defense.. Clearly GZ could have made some better choices, but those still harping about "he should have stayed in the truck, yadayadayada, understand it was not illegal, nor a defense the State can claim was illegal.

I do not accept the bull chit or underhanded corrupt MEDIA contributions or the Crump Team that have a vested interest, in some cases that have MISLED many people not following the case closely and following all the evidence, but the tide has turned as far as everyone believing the initial reports by the MEDIA or the Crump Team. Evidence has changed a lot of opinions of those seeking JUSTICE in this case, for Trayvon and GZ. They both are entitled to JUSTICE. The lawsuit against NBC, imo, is the tip of the iceberg in the exposing of the depths some people or outlets were willing to go to have public opinion support their view, but more importantly, imo, has put the those IRRESPONSIBLE that they too are going to be called out.

I too wonder if BDLR who edits tapes attended the same undergraduate college as the FIRED NBC employees, they are in Fla. too, maybe they all took an AUDIO editing class together. All DISHONEST! Birds of a feather. I hope BDLR gets reprimanded in the next Court hearing as he deserves it on many issues. imo.

How does anyone know BDLR edited the tapes? Is there a link, as I seemed to have missed that.
Please excuse me, but is that a FACT, or YOUR perception?

I haven't convicted GZ totally yet...
I just have a REALLY hard time giving him the benefit of the doubt.
To be honest, I really don't know much about the Team Crump misinformation, other than DeeDee's age.
It seems like TM's parents had to make quite a ruckus as SPD seemed to have just took GZ at HIS WORD, (never had a drug screen that night), deemed it was SYG, and IMO that was not right from the very start.

I agree the color & B/W photos match up, but it sure seems the swelling in GZ's nose went down quite a bit by the time he made it to SPD that night, and without any mention in any of the reports of anyone giving him any ice for his 'alleged broken nose.' Which many are referring to as FACT, without any xrays.

IF GZ were so near death, according to brother RZ, (who also spread a bunch of misinformation and IMO inflated stories in the beginning as well), wouldn't ya think he would have AT LEAST went to the hospital that night to be checked out?

Can anyone answer WHY the pictures were taken with a cellphone, and not the same camera that took the evidence photos? IIRC, why did it take so long for the photos to be downloaded? Sorry, no link.
It seems BOTH sides are playing 'dirty,' IMO, and unfortunately, I don't have much sympathy for GZ.
Also, could it be possible that Corey may wait until trial to question the validity of the cellphone photos?

by KimmyK Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:55 pm

Tamta wrote:
KimmyK wrote:

Or the recent publicity by Team GZ, the 'graphic color' pictures, the lawsuit, the motion GZ should be 'free' to roam about Florida? Does this not 'taint' a jury pool as well?

How?
The GPS device answered the risk of flight.

I stated the MOTION GZ should be free to roam about Florida...

by KimmyK Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:04 pm

Tamta wrote:
KimmyK wrote:I was not making it about race.
I was making a point that GZ's lawsuit is about how NBC edited the 911 call, and coincidentally GZ's lawyers ALSO edit the 911 call themselves in the complaint. In fact, leaving out a rather 'unfavorable' part of GZ's conversation. If you compare the transcript with the complaint, it is quite obvious. That's all. How convenient.

Please post a link to the recording of the NEN call edited by the defense, and as for '**** punks' not appearing in the motion, it is mostly likely because what Zimmerman said at the moment is not established as undisputed fact before the court, it is simply that the State is not putting it forth as a racial slur, so O'Mara nor West would include it.

If you compare the 911 transcript with the Lawsuit filed,
they skipped that part, kinda like NBC...
I stated EDITED the 911 call in the COMPLAINT...NOT the recording...
Somehow it you don't seem to READ what I'm writing.

by KimmyK Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:09 pm

Tamta wrote:
KimmyK wrote:

As for the photos, why they were not taken by the same camera as the other evidence photos were?
IMO, the photos are questionable, and why they were taken on Wagner's cellphone just doesn't add up. Why?
My perception of this case is, had GZ never got out of his car, and waited for police to arrive, he wouldn't be in this situation. Then, he ran and hid so fast after the fact, imo, looks like a guilty conscience to me. The media knew nothing of this case at that point.
As I stated before, I'm all for gun rights, but what he did that night was imo, just plain stupid on his part, especially, for someone with criminal justice training... All so he could stop what he percieved in his mind as someone who LOOKED suspicious? Stupid, just plain stupid, imo.

I am not sure why an LEO officer taking photo at the scene, and then handing it over to the Prosecution, with his cellphone troubles you so much.

His deposition will most likely provide details as to why he used that device to document the earliest moments of Zimmerman's injuries, which correspond to investigative reports that his nose was bleeding, which have already been posted for your review last week.

You are antagonistic to Zimmerman and have already decided to not see any exculpatory evidence as credible.

If anyone manipulated the photo, it would the SA office, if you were to believe the chain of custody regarding that photo.

IIRC, Wagner had the photo for two weeks? To say it would ONLY be the SA office, is not true.

by Tamta Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:10 pm

KimmyK wrote:
Tamta wrote:

Please post a link to the recording of the NEN call edited by the defense, and as for '**** punks' not appearing in the motion, it is mostly likely because what Zimmerman said at the moment is not established as undisputed fact before the court, it is simply that the State is not putting it forth as a racial slur, so O'Mara nor West would include it.

If you compare the 911 transcript with the Lawsuit filed,
they skipped that part, kinda like NBC...
I stated EDITED the 911 call in the COMPLAINT...NOT the recording...
Somehow it you don't seem to READ what I'm writing.

You did not read my reply.

It can't be included because it is not considered undisputed what the comment exactly said at this time .

They aren't deceptively omitting it.

by Tamta Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:14 pm

KimmyK wrote:
Tamta wrote:

I am not sure why an LEO officer taking photo at the scene, and then handing it over to the Prosecution, with his cellphone troubles you so much.

His deposition will most likely provide details as to why he used that device to document the earliest moments of Zimmerman's injuries, which correspond to investigative reports that his nose was bleeding, which have already been posted for your review last week.

You are antagonistic to Zimmerman and have already decided to not see any exculpatory evidence as credible.

If anyone manipulated the photo, it would the SA office, if you were to believe the chain of custody regarding that photo.

IIRC, Wagner had the photo for two weeks? To say it would ONLY be the SA office, is not true.

I'm not discussing conspiracy theories.

There's zero evidence indicating LE or the State manipulated that photo.

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:55 pm

Tamta wrote:
KimmyK wrote:

If you compare the 911 transcript with the Lawsuit filed,
they skipped that part, kinda like NBC...
I stated EDITED the 911 call in the COMPLAINT...NOT the recording...
Somehow it you don't seem to READ what I'm writing.

You did not read my reply.

It can't be included because it is not considered undisputed what the comment exactly said at this time .

They aren't deceptively omitting it.

Really?

George Zimmerman's complaint:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/115819305/George-Zimmerman-Sues-NBC-Over-Edited-911-Call

Transcript of George Zimmerman call to the police:

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

They obviously omitted the following part of the 911 call transcript:

911 dispatcher:

He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.

And he’s a black male.[1:03]

by KimmyK Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:00 am

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
Tamta wrote:

You did not read my reply.

It can't be included because it is not considered undisputed what the comment exactly said at this time .

They aren't deceptively omitting it.

Really?

George Zimmerman's complaint:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/115819305/George-Zimmerman-Sues-NBC-Over-Edited-911-Call

Transcript of George Zimmerman call to the police:

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

They obviously omitted the following part of the 911 call transcript:

911 dispatcher:

He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.

And he’s a black male.[1:03]

Thank you Alessandra!
They omitted another part as well, skipped the ** punks, then picked up again after it.
That was my point in my origional post. They seemed to edit out portions, somewhat like NBC did.
Just kind of ironic...that was what GZ's lawsuit was regarding, and then his attorney's did the same.

by DebFrmHell Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:09 am

RE: Drug or Alcohol testing for George Zimmerman.

The SPD needed to have some kind of probable cause to get a warrant for those tests. Serino was looking to catch him at anything. If he had suspected any kind of drugs or alcohol in GZ's demeanor, he would have been on that likes flies on poop, IMO.

Despite that, Zimmerman agreed to everything else they had asked him to do, including the CVSA. I think that if they had asked he would have submitted to that also. I doubt they would have needed a warrant.

He has been compliant with all requests from the state.

How shady is that? The sneak. [/sarcasm]

by KimmyK Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:16 am

DebFrmHell wrote:RE: Drug or Alcohol testing for George Zimmerman.

The SPD needed to have some kind of probable cause to get a warrant for those tests. Serino was looking to catch him at anything. If he had suspected any kind of drugs or alcohol in GZ's demeanor, he would have been on that likes flies on poop, IMO.

Despite that, Zimmerman agreed to everything else they had asked him to do, including the CVSA. I think that if they had asked he would have submitted to that also. I doubt they would have needed a warrant.

He has been compliant with all requests from the state.

How shady is that? The sneak. [/sarcasm]

Just wondered b/c in the similar FL case they said since he went back to his hotel and then home the next day, they never got a chance to do a blood alcohol test, so just wondered, sounded like it might be standard, IMO.

by Tamta Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:19 am

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
Tamta wrote:

You did not read my reply.

It can't be included because it is not considered undisputed what the comment exactly said at this time .

They aren't deceptively omitting it.

Really?

George Zimmerman's complaint:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/115819305/George-Zimmerman-Sues-NBC-Over-Edited-911-Call

Transcript of George Zimmerman call to the police:

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

They obviously omitted the following part of the 911 call transcript:

911 dispatcher:

He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.

And he’s a black male.[1:03]

Review page 9 and 10 of the complaint for call transcript.

Review page 14, #58 for reference to f------ punks.

Not omitted.

------

NEN Call Audio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk

by Alessandra_Deux Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:42 am

Tamta wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Really?

George Zimmerman's complaint:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/115819305/George-Zimmerman-Sues-NBC-Over-Edited-911-Call

Transcript of George Zimmerman call to the police:

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

They obviously omitted the following part of the 911 call transcript:

911 dispatcher:

He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.

And he’s a black male.[1:03]

Review page 9 and 10 of the complaint for call transcript.

Review page 14, #58 for reference to f------ punks.

Not omitted.

------

NEN Call Audio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk

The wonders of technology......

by KimmyK Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:54 am

Tamta wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Really?

George Zimmerman's complaint:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/115819305/George-Zimmerman-Sues-NBC-Over-Edited-911-Call

Transcript of George Zimmerman call to the police:

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

They obviously omitted the following part of the 911 call transcript:

911 dispatcher:

He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.

And he’s a black male.[1:03]

Review page 9 and 10 of the complaint for call transcript.

Review page 14, #58 for reference to f------ punks.

Not omitted.

------

NEN Call Audio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk

Still not finding it in the "actual audio portion" of the COMPLAINT...
Compare the "actual audio portion" of the COMPLAINT with the actual NEN call audio transcript.
Too late to try and find it right now. Sleep

Refer to previous post regarding comparisons.

by Tamta Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:04 am

KimmyK wrote:
Tamta wrote:

Review page 9 and 10 of the complaint for call transcript.

Review page 14, #58 for reference to f------ punks.

Not omitted.

------

NEN Call Audio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk

Still not finding it in the "actual audio portion" of the COMPLAINT...
Compare the "actual audio portion" of the COMPLAINT with the actual NEN call audio.
It is omitted...Page 11 after He ran...skips to George's info

The entire call is represented accurately.
The call spans from page 9-12.

For the sake of the complaint, they bring particular attention to f---- punks.
There is nothing left to say on this.

These are top notch lawyers.
They are not going to screw up a Complaint.

by Puzzler Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:11 am

A colored picture of injuries that was taken immediately after the incident was held back and a grainy white and black picture was given to the defense instead.

An audio tape of a witness interview that is somewhat garbled is given to the defense, when there is a clear tape out there.

There is a problem with the State providing evidence to the defense timely.

A color picture showing that was taken by police, showing GZ's injuries, recently released to the defense, is not the fault of the defense.

That the picture is evidence that GZ did suffer a broken nose does not mean the defense altered the photo. That photo was provided by the State - any alteration came from that end. It's most likely that the color photo is what it is...the alteration came at the time a gainy black and white photo was presented to the defense to begin with. Obvious that the State didn't just provide a color file to the defense; to provide a black and white grainy copy, the State had to put a little effort into that IMO.

by justanopinion Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:57 am

Tamta wrote:
KimmyK wrote:

Still not finding it in the "actual audio portion" of the COMPLAINT...
Compare the "actual audio portion" of the COMPLAINT with the actual NEN call audio.
It is omitted...Page 11 after He ran...skips to George's info

The entire call is represented accurately.
The call spans from page 9-12.

For the sake of the complaint, they bring particular attention to f---- punks.
There is nothing left to say on this.

These are top notch lawyers.
They are not going to screw up a Complaint.

I am afraid that I have to say that there was some Media frenzy especially surrounding the editing around the F***ing______ (punks) or whatever was whispered. It did cause an absolute outrage for some people. I still have difficulty with listening to the tape and not hearing the alternate words. Although, I do understand that the FBI has had audiophiles examine the wording and determined it was not racist. George may have some recourse. crystal ball

and it pains me to say that as I do have a distinct slant to what I truly believe happened that night!

by DebFrmHell Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:42 am

JAO, I agree with you. That word is whatever you want to believe it is. In the end, I think that, regardless of testimony, the statement by the FBI will carry the most weight with the judge in an immunity hearing or jury if it goes to trial.

It is odd. After the CNN video I thought it was a slur, then I thought it was cold or cops but once I read "punks" I could hear that too. The mind...

-------

http://www.realitychatter.com/viewtopic.forum?t=4220

by Sponsored content