George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #8

NeJame weighs in on the scream for help!

There are multiple cries ‘help me, ‘help me, help me.’ One side has been saying that it’s, in fact, George Zimmerman,” NeJame said. “The other side says it was Trayvon Martin. Why is this is so important? Because whoever was crying for help was likely the one who was being the victim. If, in fact, it was Zimmerman who was crying for help, then it leads credence to the defense point of view that, in fact, he was … defending himself against Trayvon Martin hitting him and beating him up. If, in fact, it was Trayvon Martin, then it absolutely plays into the state’s position that George Zimmerman was the aggressor.”

NeJame predicted that if it’s established that Zimmerman crying for help, it will be “a very difficult case for the state.” If it’s established that Martin was crying, it will be a much easier case for the state, NeJame added.

“That’s going to be the case,” NeJame said.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/

Although there is going to be much debate over who was actually screaming for help and who was on bottom during the confrontation, since Trayvon's injuries aren't reflective of someone being beaten about the face or beaten up, it seems an uphill battle for the State to overcome imo.

The pictures of GZ imo, look like someone that had the snot beat out of him, reflective of getting his butt kicked.

Does anyone know of any actual/credible witnesses that saw Trayvon on the bottom? Never mind, I have found the resources on the altercation and who was on top and who was on bottom.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

KimmyK wrote:

Just to set the record straight...
Kimmy was unhappy with the way the motion was WRITTEN.
When I first compared it with the actual 911 call transcript it appeared MOM 'EDITED' the 911 call in HIS MOTION like NBC did, which is what GZ's CIVIL lawsuit is ABOUT. I didn't know my computer was skipping pages as I was trying to scroll and compare the two.

Kimmy is quite happy about several points BDLR raised today during the hearing...
Which is WHY I have a problem giving GZ the 'benefit of the doubt' thus far.
(As some have said I have already convicted GZ, sorry, I have a problem believing GZ due to his LIES).

Some parts below respectfully snipped from Freckles above post, THANK YOU!
State addressing court:
--- lied @ ability to raise money;
--- lied about a second passport which he instructed his wife to get from a lock box;
---defendant and wife lied to court, asking bond revoked; court raised the bond and restricted movement due to credibility;

---defendant said he is scared, its unsafe, but he enters the court from the from door?

---Two judges have determined probable case; defense states they have other witnesses, info, but neglect to inform the court the witness spoke to state and the statements were DIFFERENT than what defense is now maintaining;

State:
--- where is the evidence GZ DID have a broken nose? States he "may" have a broken nose. No x-rays for evidence.
--- racist comments: Witnesses 9 stated GZ did make racist comments and his own fb states he doesn't like Mexicans;
---Court needs to be attending to what has changed; shouldn't the court be aware of where GZ if there are actual threats? Is that true? If so, why enter court through the front door? Why give all these autographs? Why all the security issues? If there are security issues, why allow defendant to wander about the state?

AND THE BEST PART (IMO) TODAY...
State:
---Recently, Jose Baez submitted info to the state re drafts of supplemental reports of Serino; first two drafts; email exchanges

--- filing charges under --- 2nd degree for GMZ
---last report states manslaughter

IMO IMO-Could this be WHY Serino Lawyered UP???
Looks like Coryey may not have been the only one to think GZ should be charged 2nd Degree...IMO

Some of ABOVE snipped from Freckles...THANK YOU!
Kimmy K now needs to go get a few things done besides spending my day arguing this case.
Have a GREAT day!

KimmyK,

Thank you for further stressing the points that were made today by the prosecution. It was quite an interesting hearing.

You're welcome. Freckles did a great job on the recap!

imo, I think that may be a mistake on Baez's behalf about Serino thinking the charges should be 2nd degree murder, although BDLR brought that up in Court he said he "didn't know," a draft is not a final report. The Deposition statement is going to be what is most important. imo, that is a mistake, especially if there is no paperwork to back it up and is an error, no body knows. BDLR probably shouldn't have brought up Baez's name again, LOL, remember the last time BDLR threw out Baez's name, Baez sent a letter to the Judge to CORRECT BDLR's statements. BDLR seems to get the facts confused at times.

I can't recall a single person from Sanford that thought there should be 2nd degree murder charges, most thought there should be no charges at all. imo, BDLR has thrown that out in Court, but where is the actual information to back that up? Another red herring? BDLR harps if something isn't in a report, blah, blah, blah, so WHERE IS THAT STATEMENT in a report???? imo, it's probably an error on Baez's behalf but we will have to wait and see.

Trayvon Martin shooter Zimmerman must stay on 24-hour GPS monitor (+video)

Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder in the killing of 17-year-old Martin following an altercation in Sanford, Fla. in February.

By Kyle Hightower, Associated Press / December 11, 2012

George Zimmerman arrives for a hearing in Sanford, Florida, Dec. 11. A Florida judge on Tuesday denied a request from accused murderer George Zimmerman to let him remove his GPS monitoring device and travel freely in the state pending his trial next June in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin. Joe Burbank/Orlando Sentinel/Reuters

SANFORD, Fla.

George Zimmerman must remain under 24-hour GPS monitoring while awaiting trial in the fatal shooting of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin and must stay in the county despite the defense's concerns about his safety, a judge ruled Tuesday.

The defense presented a lengthy bond modification argument to Judge Debra Nelson that includedZimmerman's probation officer testifying that the former neighborhood watch volunteer was complying with all terms of his release on a $1 million bond.

Following a rebuttal by the prosecutors, Nelson, without explanation, denied the request for modification of the bond terms.

Read more:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2012/1211/Trayvon-Martin-shooter-Zimmerman-must-stay-on-24-hour-GPS-monitor-video

Florida judge rejects Zimmerman request to remove GPS monitor

A Florida judge struck down George Zimmerman's plea to be removed from GPS monitoring while he remains free on bond awaiting trial in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

By NBC News staff and wire services

A Florida judge denied a motion Tuesday to allow George Zimmerman to remove his GPS monitoring device and allow him to travel or live outside Seminole County, Fla.

Zimmerman, 29, has been confined to Seminole County under a $1 million bond since July, when a judge concluded that Zimmerman provided false information about his assets and was a flight risk.

~Snipped~

Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda opposed the motion, suggesting that Zimmerman had voluntarily brought himself to the media’s attention. He added, sarcastically, that the defendant had come to court to “sign autographs.”

Read more:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/11/15841268-florida-judge-rejects-zimmerman-request-to-remove-gps-monitor?lite

art tart wrote:imo, I think that may be a mistake on Baez's behalf about Serino thinking the charges should be 2nd degree murder, although BDLR brought that up in Court he said he "didn't know," a draft is not a final report. The Deposition statement is going to be what is most important. imo, that is a mistake, especially if there is no paperwork to back it up and is an error, no body knows. BDLR probably shouldn't have brought up Baez's name again, LOL, remember the last time BDLR threw out Baez's name, Baez sent a letter to the Judge to CORRECT BDLR's statements. BDLR seems to get the facts confused at times.

I can't recall a single person from Sanford that thought there should be 2nd degree murder charges, most thought there should be no charges at all. imo, BDLR has thrown that out in Court, but where is the actual information to back that up? Another red herring? BDLR harps if something isn't in a report, blah, blah, blah, so WHERE IS THAT STATEMENT in a report???? imo, it's probably an error on Baez's behalf but we will have to wait and see.

Art Tart


Serino thinking the charges should be 2nd degree murder, although BDLR brought that up in Court he said he "didn't know," a draft is not a final report.

My sense is that this is related to trying to determine the circumstances around the SPD incident report filed characterizing the incident as homicide/negligent manslaughter and then the eventual capias for Murder 2.

Angela Corey never seemed to acknowledge or confirm that the SPD recommended a negligent manslaughter charge, but said only that a capias request was sent to the Seminole SAO at that time but she was asked to take over before the GJ convened. What was in that particular capias, which became null and void because Corey, a different SA, was appointed?

This is the one that Wolfinger supposedly rejected due to lack of evidence that Lee supported after the ASA met on 3/8 with Serino at the station to review the case?

The Seminole County SAO did not want to say that they received paperwork that they then subsequently recommended the Prosecutor to not file charges.

Something is off there, kind of a hole.

What was it that Serino really went to Seminole SAO with?
What did it say?
Was it really a capias or did it become that after Corey took over?

Some of the links I had attributing some of these statements have been scrubbed or no longer working now. I will try to find others.

Judge denies motion to take George Zimmerman off GPS tracking

Zimmerman is not allowed to leave Seminole County except to visit his attorney's office in Orange County.

(VIDEO: The brother of George Zimmerman and his defense attorney Mark O'Mara after judge's decision.)

By Jeff Weiner and Arelis R. Hernández, Orlando Sentinel
6:04 p.m. EST, December 11, 2012

~Snipped~

"The very issue of his innocence is an issue for you to consider," he said to the judge. O'Mara also argued his client needs to travel to assist his defense, and is not safe in Seminole County, where he has received threats.

However, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda argued it's money and publicity — not safety — that the Zimmerman team is after.

"Isn't the defendant safer if law enforcement knows exactly where he is?" de la Rionda said. "If there are threats, why is he appearing on national television?"

Read more:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-gps-hearing-20121211,0,2988038.story

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Judge denies motion to take George Zimmerman off GPS tracking

Zimmerman is not allowed to leave Seminole County except to visit his attorney's office in Orange County.

(VIDEO: The brother of George Zimmerman and his defense attorney Mark O'Mara after judge's decision.)

By Jeff Weiner and Arelis R. Hernández, Orlando Sentinel
6:04 p.m. EST, December 11, 2012

~Snipped~

"The very issue of his innocence is an issue for you to consider," he said to the judge. O'Mara also argued his client needs to travel to assist his defense, and is not safe in Seminole County, where he has received threats.

However, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda argued it's money and publicity — not safety — that the Zimmerman team is after.

"Isn't the defendant safer if law enforcement knows exactly where he is?" de la Rionda said. "If there are threats, why is he appearing on national television?"

Read more:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-gps-hearing-20121211,0,2988038.story

Respectfully snipped from Alessandra's link....Interesting

•The state will alert the defense to any witnesses who say that they believe the cries were those of Zimmerman, who told police after the shooting that he was the one crying for help. However, prosecutors will not be required to tell the Zimmerman team about witnesses who came to the opposite conclusion: That Trayvon was the one yelling.

•The defense can demand additional documents from investigators with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and U.S. Department of Justice, who are conducting a civil-rights probe. However, those agencies will be granted a 20-day window to file a legal challenge to those demands.

IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO
I think there are two voices in the background of the 911 calls, and since there are 6(I think?) different 911 calls by the residents of RTL, those could be quite revealing when the enhanced versions are released.

Also, interesting is that the civil rights investigation is still ONGOING, and both FBI and DOJ have a 20 day window to challenge the demands for additional documents.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-gps-hearing-20121211,0,2988038.story[/quote]

George Zimmerman Forced to Keep Wearing GPS, Must Remain in County
-snipped-
Members of Zimmerman's family said the voice was his, while Martin's family claimed the voice belonged to the teenager. Martin's father initially said the voice was not his son, but when he heard it with heightened clarity, said it was Trayvon.

Defense Attorney Don West argued that the defense is obligated to know which witnesses have heard the audio and identified who it was yelling on the calls. The judge countered, saying that anyone could have now heard the audio on the internet and that the prosecution has no greater obligation than to disclose whether or not each witness made a statement to law enforcement.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-forced-wearing-gps-remain-county/story?id=17933483#.UMgNU46j-xg

TM's dad heard a tape with 'heightened clarity?'
I would like more info on that.

IMO IMO IMO
Seems there might be more to the 911 tapes then they are releasing.
Could they be holding back 'enhanced versions' until the trial?
Is that allowed, since technically the tapes have been released?

KimmyK wrote:

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Judge denies motion to take George Zimmerman off GPS tracking

Zimmerman is not allowed to leave Seminole County except to visit his attorney's office in Orange County.

(VIDEO: The brother of George Zimmerman and his defense attorney Mark O'Mara after judge's decision.)

By Jeff Weiner and Arelis R. Hernández, Orlando Sentinel
6:04 p.m. EST, December 11, 2012

~Snipped~

"The very issue of his innocence is an issue for you to consider," he said to the judge. O'Mara also argued his client needs to travel to assist his defense, and is not safe in Seminole County, where he has received threats.

However, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda argued it's money and publicity — not safety — that the Zimmerman team is after.

"Isn't the defendant safer if law enforcement knows exactly where he is?" de la Rionda said. "If there are threats, why is he appearing on national television?"

Read more:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-gps-hearing-20121211,0,2988038.story

Respectfully snipped from Alessandra's link....Interesting

•The state will alert the defense to any witnesses who say that they believe the cries were those of Zimmerman, who told police after the shooting that he was the one crying for help. However, prosecutors will not be required to tell the Zimmerman team about witnesses who came to the opposite conclusion: That Trayvon was the one yelling.

•The defense can demand additional documents from investigators with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and U.S. Department of Justice, who are conducting a civil-rights probe. However, those agencies will be granted a 20-day window to file a legal challenge to those demands.

IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO
I think there are two voices in the background of the 911 calls, and since there are 6(I think?) different 911 calls by the residents of RTL, those could be quite revealing when the enhanced versions are released.

Also, interesting is that the civil rights investigation is still ONGOING, and both FBI and DOJ have a 20 day window to challenge the demands for additional documents.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-gps-hearing-20121211,0,2988038.story

KimmyK


•The state will alert the defense to any witnesses who say that they believe the cries were those of Zimmerman, who told police after the shooting that he was the one crying for help. However, prosecutors will not be required to tell the Zimmerman team about witnesses who came to the opposite conclusion: That Trayvon was the one yelling.

Or divulge witnesses who could not come to a conclusion either.

KimmyK wrote:George Zimmerman Forced to Keep Wearing GPS, Must Remain in County
-snipped-
Members of Zimmerman's family said the voice was his, while Martin's family claimed the voice belonged to the teenager. Martin's father initially said the voice was not his son, but when he heard it with heightened clarity, said it was Trayvon.

Defense Attorney Don West argued that the defense is obligated to know which witnesses have heard the audio and identified who it was yelling on the calls. The judge countered, saying that anyone could have now heard the audio on the internet and that the prosecution has no greater obligation than to disclose whether or not each witness made a statement to law enforcement.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-forced-wearing-gps-remain-county/story?id=17933483#.UMgNU46j-xg

TM's dad heard a tape with 'heightened clarity?'
I would like more info on that.

IMO IMO IMO
Seems there might be more to the 911 tapes then they are releasing.
Could they be holding back 'enhanced versions' until the trial?
Is that allowed, since technically the tapes have been released?

Snipped.

ABC

Defense Attorney Don West argued that the defense is obligated to know which witnesses have heard the audio and identified who it was yelling on the calls. The judge countered, saying that anyone could have now heard the audio on the internet and that the prosecution has no greater obligation than to disclose whether or not each witness made a statement to law enforcement.

The reporter is misrepresenting the issue. West asked that the defense be informed of everyone that the State played the tape for, not everyone who has heard the tape.

Nelson was not getting what West was implicating either.

Prosecution enters GZ's Sean Hannity Interview into evidence
Also, cousins testimony of molestation by GZ
See video at link...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-forced-wearing-gps-remain-county/story?id=17933483#.UMgbRI6j-xg

Tamta wrote:

art tart wrote:imo, I think that may be a mistake on Baez's behalf about Serino thinking the charges should be 2nd degree murder, although BDLR brought that up in Court he said he "didn't know," a draft is not a final report. The Deposition statement is going to be what is most important. imo, that is a mistake, especially if there is no paperwork to back it up and is an error, no body knows. BDLR probably shouldn't have brought up Baez's name again, LOL, remember the last time BDLR threw out Baez's name, Baez sent a letter to the Judge to CORRECT BDLR's statements. BDLR seems to get the facts confused at times.

I can't recall a single person from Sanford that thought there should be 2nd degree murder charges, most thought there should be no charges at all. imo, BDLR has thrown that out in Court, but where is the actual information to back that up? Another red herring? BDLR harps if something isn't in a report, blah, blah, blah, so WHERE IS THAT STATEMENT in a report???? imo, it's probably an error on Baez's behalf but we will have to wait and see.

Art Tart


Serino thinking the charges should be 2nd degree murder, although BDLR brought that up in Court he said he "didn't know," a draft is not a final report.

My sense is that this is related to trying to determine the circumstances around the SPD incident report filed characterizing the incident as homicide/negligent manslaughter and then the eventual capias for Murder 2.

Angela Corey never seemed to acknowledge or confirm that the SPD recommended a negligent manslaughter charge, but said only that a capias request was sent to the Seminole SAO at that time but she was asked to take over before the GJ convened. What was in that particular capias, which became null and void because Corey, a different SA, was appointed?

This is the one that Wolfinger supposedly rejected due to lack of evidence that Lee supported after the ASA met on 3/8 with Serino at the station to review the case?

The Seminole County SAO did not want to say that they received paperwork that they then subsequently recommended the Prosecutor to not file charges.

Something is off there, kind of a hole.

What was it that Serino really went to Seminole SAO with?
What did it say?
Was it really a capias or did it become that after Corey took over?

Some of the links I had attributing some of these statements have been scrubbed or no longer working now. I will try to find others.

IMO IMO-I think Serino went to Seminole SAO with a capias. Probably why he's a beat cop now. IMO

I think that is the exculpatory evidence BDLR mentioned that was from Baez, which is regarding Serino.
(Sorry, no link, statement BDLR made in court)

I think this case could be way BIGGER than we know. I think that is why Serino lawyered up. IMO
Wolfinger and Lee may want to consider the same, as I think DOJ and FBI investigations are not still "ONGOING' for nothing, I think there could be way more to this case than anyone thinks, and they are 'spoon feeding' it to keep the heat down so it doesn't look as bad as it was regarding 'certain issues.' JMO
It will be interesting to see what really comes out...I don't think ANYONE wants to touch that issue as it could get way too heated...JMO

Tamta, you don't have to look for links, I remember reading some of that information you have mentioned and I agree w/your thoughts. We may never know all the confidential information into the Sanford LE, that's the way, imo, some political things work and this case, is surely political and some are going to try to HUSH it up. The case is surely politically motivated as to Angela Corey stepping in as well as racially motivated by some since the beginning.

KimmyK shared:

I think that is the exculpatory evidence BDLR mentioned that was from Baez, which is regarding Serino.
(Sorry, no link, statement BDLR made in court)

KimmyK - I agree, BDLR has probably exposed more exculpatory evidence in Court yesterday, that is one of the complaint's in the MOTIONS West/MOM filed, INSTEAD of casually MENTIONING something in an open hearing, he SHOULD produce the information and give it to the Defense. West accused BDLR of "playing hide and seek with the evidence."

Exculpatory evidence doesn't help the State, legally it has to be turned over to the defense, MOM/West have accused the State of with holding exculpatory evidence, BDLR seems to play verbal games imo and allows himself room to back pedal or CLAIM, "it's not in a report." LOL. imo, BDLR isn't beneath anything to cover his butt.

Since this case has not gone to trial and new evidence could be discovered by the State or the Defense, there is NO REASON for the FBI to close their overall case, UNTIL they are forced to. The FBI was less than cooperative in KC's case in releasing needed documents to the Defense in her case. I hope the FBI doesn't play that game in this case. The FBI didn't find anything indicating GZ to be a racist but it doesn't stop the Crump Team from still trying to promote racism in their MEDIA Blitz. imo, or, I guess, that's a fact, the racial aspect is promoted by the parent's handlers.

Exculpatory evidence supports the Defense, not the State.

art tart wrote:Tamta, you don't have to look for links, I remember reading some of that information you have mentioned and I agree w/your thoughts. We may never know all the confidential information into the Sanford LE, that's the way, imo, some political things work and this case, is surely political and some are going to try to HUSH it up and politically motivated as well as racially motivated by some since the beginning.

KimmyK shared:

I think that is the exculpatory evidence BDLR mentioned that was from Baez, which is regarding Serino.
(Sorry, no link, statement BDLR made in court)

KimmyK - I agree, BDLR has probably exposed more exculpatory evidence in Court yesterday, that is one of the complaint's in the MOTIONS West/MOM filed, INSTEAD of casually MENTIONING something in an open hearing, he SHOULD produce the information and give it to the Defense. West accused BDLR of "playing hide and seek with the evidence."

Exculpatory evidence doesn't help the State, legally it has to be turned over to the defense, MOM/West have accused the State of with holding exculpatory evidence, BDLR seems to play verbal games imo and allows himself room to back pedal or CLAIM, "it's not in a report." LOL. imo, BDLR isn't below anything to cover his butt.

Since this case has not gone to trial and new evidence could be discovered by the State or the Defense, there is NO REASON for the FBI to close their overall case. The FBI didn't find anything indicating GZ to be a racist but doesn't stop the Crump Team from still trying to promote racism.

Exculpatory evidence supports the Defense, not the State.

West and O'Mara are probably looking for the paper chain of Serino's first, now, mysterious 'affidavit', distinct from the incident report.

I've looked and looked and other than Corey's word, there is no evidence that Serino actually filed a capias for arrest with Seminole County SAO.

Tamta shared:

West and O'Mara are probably looking for the paper chain of Serino's first, now, mysterious 'affidavit', distinct from the incident report.

I've looked and looked and other than Corey's word, there is no evidence that Serino actually filed a capias for arrest with Seminole County SAO.

Tamta, - that is probably it, It's going to be hard for West/MOM to get to the original paper chain of events of Serino for a multitude of reasons. His deposition is going to be interesting.

art tart wrote:

Tamta shared:

West and O'Mara are probably looking for the paper chain of Serino's first, now, mysterious 'affidavit', distinct from the incident report.

I've looked and looked and other than Corey's word, there is no evidence that Serino actually filed a capias for arrest with Seminole County SAO.

Tamta, - that is probably it, It's going to be hard for West/MOM to get to the original paper chain of events of Serino for a multitude of reasons. His deposition is going to be interesting.

I believe they what Serino wrote and 'filed' the first night was an initial incident report and it was for internal purposes only and not 'intended' for release but maybe intended for leaks?

“That police report should not have been put in the public domain,” she said. “We have strict rules in Florida with regard to when a document becomes a public record and that does not comport with Florida law.”

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/29/report-police-initially-wanted-to-make-arrest-in-trayvon-martin-case/

art tart wrote:

Tamta shared:

West and O'Mara are probably looking for the paper chain of Serino's first, now, mysterious 'affidavit', distinct from the incident report.

I've looked and looked and other than Corey's word, there is no evidence that Serino actually filed a capias for arrest with Seminole County SAO.

Tamta, - that is probably it, It's going to be hard for West/MOM to get to the original paper chain of events of Serino for a multitude of reasons. His deposition is going to be interesting.

I think Corey might be attempting to rely on statutory exemptions regarding release of criminal and intelligence records.

We've heard her say internal investigation and the FBI and DOJ have been involved.
She also used LEO affiants in her APC.

This would allow some wiggle room to not release certain parts of the investigation to the defense if the intelligence investigation is ongoing, even if Zimmerman is no longer the actual subject of it but investigation into the shooting and its internal handling are.

Tamta shared:

I think Corey might be attempting to rely on statutory exemptions regarding release of criminal and intelligence records.

We've heard her say internal investigation and the FBI and DOJ have been involved.
She also used LEO affiants in her APC.

This would allow some wiggle room to not release certain parts of the investigation to the defense if the intelligence investigation is ongoing, even if Zimmerman is no longer the actual subject of it but investigation into the shooting and its internal handling are.

Tamta - thanks for that background information as I was not aware Corey had said that.

The good news is, there is "no trial by ambush in the State of Fla." as Judge Perry stated. ALL of that information is going to have to be turned over to the Defense, it appears, later rather than sooner, I guess that too is not surprising.

KimmyK wrote:

Tamta wrote:





My sense is that this is related to trying to determine the circumstances around the SPD incident report filed characterizing the incident as homicide/negligent manslaughter and then the eventual capias for Murder 2.

Angela Corey never seemed to acknowledge or confirm that the SPD recommended a negligent manslaughter charge, but said only that a capias request was sent to the Seminole SAO at that time but she was asked to take over before the GJ convened. What was in that particular capias, which became null and void because Corey, a different SA, was appointed?

This is the one that Wolfinger supposedly rejected due to lack of evidence that Lee supported after the ASA met on 3/8 with Serino at the station to review the case?

The Seminole County SAO did not want to say that they received paperwork that they then subsequently recommended the Prosecutor to not file charges.

Something is off there, kind of a hole.

What was it that Serino really went to Seminole SAO with?
What did it say?
Was it really a capias or did it become that after Corey took over?

Some of the links I had attributing some of these statements have been scrubbed or no longer working now. I will try to find others.

IMO IMO-I think Serino went to Seminole SAO with a capias. Probably why he's a beat cop now. IMO

I think that is the exculpatory evidence BDLR mentioned that was from Baez, which is regarding Serino.
(Sorry, no link, statement BDLR made in court)

I think this case could be way BIGGER than we know. I think that is why Serino lawyered up. IMO
Wolfinger and Lee may want to consider the same, as I think DOJ and FBI investigations are not still "ONGOING' for nothing, I think there could be way more to this case than anyone thinks, and they are 'spoon feeding' it to keep the heat down so it doesn't look as bad as it was regarding 'certain issues.' JMO
It will be interesting to see what really comes out...I don't think ANYONE wants to touch that issue as it could get way too heated...JMO

If Serino intended to file charges against Zimmerman for murder in the second degree, or for manslaughter, it would indicate that there was enough inculpatory evidence to establish probable cause.
--------
"Serino has said he was gathering evidence for a manslaughter charge when the police department turned the case over to the State Attorney's Office.

Serino's paperwork indicated he had probable cause to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter in the teenager's death, even though police officials said there was not enough evidence."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-jose-baez-officer-20121120,0,5195388.story
---------

"Bill Lee, the police chief who lost his job following the investigation, told the Sentinel police never believed they had enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, but had Serino fill out the probable cause affidavit because without it, the State Attorney's Office would not take over the investigation."
---------

If the police believed that there was no probable cause to make an arrest and that there wasn't enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, why would the police turn over the case to the State Attorney's Office?

art tart wrote:Tamta, you don't have to look for links, I remember reading some of that information you have mentioned and I agree w/your thoughts. We may never know all the confidential information into the Sanford LE, that's the way, imo, some political things work and this case, is surely political and some are going to try to HUSH it up. The case is surely politically motivated as to Angela Corey stepping in as well as racially motivated by some since the beginning.

KimmyK shared:

I think that is the exculpatory evidence BDLR mentioned that was from Baez, which is regarding Serino.
(Sorry, no link, statement BDLR made in court)

KimmyK - I agree, BDLR has probably exposed more exculpatory evidence in Court yesterday, that is one of the complaint's in the MOTIONS West/MOM filed, INSTEAD of casually MENTIONING something in an open hearing, he SHOULD produce the information and give it to the Defense. West accused BDLR of "playing hide and seek with the evidence."

Exculpatory evidence doesn't help the State, legally it has to be turned over to the defense, MOM/West have accused the State of with holding exculpatory evidence, BDLR seems to play verbal games imo and allows himself room to back pedal or CLAIM, "it's not in a report." LOL. imo, BDLR isn't beneath anything to cover his butt.

Since this case has not gone to trial and new evidence could be discovered by the State or the Defense, there is NO REASON for the FBI to close their overall case, UNTIL they are forced to. The FBI was less than cooperative in KC's case in releasing needed documents to the Defense in her case. I hope the FBI doesn't play that game in this case. The FBI didn't find anything indicating GZ to be a racist but it doesn't stop the Crump Team from still trying to promote racism in their MEDIA Blitz. imo, or, I guess, that's a fact, the racial aspect is promoted by the parent's handlers.

Exculpatory evidence supports the Defense, not the State.

Sick as a dog today
Exculpatory evidence that supports Serino NOT GZ....
Meaning when Corey throws people under the bus...Serino did what he should have...

Think about it...SPD did a few things that night that weren't proper protocol.
Osterman the ex cop (who was/is friends with Lee) was at the scene shortly after the shooting.
Serino tells (corrects?) witnesses the 'voice' they heard was GZ, and not the person who was shot
(not proper protocol when interviewing a witness).
SPD believed Osterman's friend/NHW Captain GZ...

GZ WASHED his hands?? Possibly took a firearm to the bathroon WITH him??
Then LATER (not sure how much later), Serino started to doubt GZ's story, maybe after he found out Trayvon wasn't really the 'thug' they all thought he was, maybe after his dad came LOOKING for him.

THEN Serino was going going to file 2nd degree charges against GZ, (no way that was gonna fly),
then manslaughter, and word was there was NOT enough evidence?? Story just don't add up. IMO
Something is up, WAY bigger and BDLR knows it. IMO IMO IMO

KimmyK -

I'm sorry your sick today, that really sucks. I guess I have misunderstood your statement about the report/Baez/BDLR and still don't understand it really.

BUT! Serino isn't charged in any crime that I know of, he is scheduled to do a deposition and has lawyered up. If Serino was charged in a crime or involved in a Civil Suit, he would be entitled to exculpatory evidence but as far I know, that isn't the case..

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

KimmyK wrote:
IMO IMO-I think Serino went to Seminole SAO with a capias. Probably why he's a beat cop now. IMO

I think that is the exculpatory evidence BDLR mentioned that was from Baez, which is regarding Serino.
(Sorry, no link, statement BDLR made in court)

I think this case could be way BIGGER than we know. I think that is why Serino lawyered up. IMO
Wolfinger and Lee may want to consider the same, as I think DOJ and FBI investigations are not still "ONGOING' for nothing, I think there could be way more to this case than anyone thinks, and they are 'spoon feeding' it to keep the heat down so it doesn't look as bad as it was regarding 'certain issues.' JMO
It will be interesting to see what really comes out...I don't think ANYONE wants to touch that issue as it could get way too heated...JMO

If Serino intended to file charges against Zimmerman for murder in the second degree, or for manslaughter, it would indicate that there was enough inculpatory evidence to establish probable cause.
--------
"Serino has said he was gathering evidence for a manslaughter charge when the police department turned the case over to the State Attorney's Office.

Serino's paperwork indicated he had probable cause to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter in the teenager's death, even though police officials said there was not enough evidence."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-jose-baez-officer-20121120,0,5195388.story
---------

"Bill Lee, the police chief who lost his job following the investigation, told the Sentinel police never believed they had enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, but had Serino fill out the probable cause affidavit because without it, the State Attorney's Office would not take over the investigation."
---------

If the police believed that there was no probable cause to make an arrest and that there wasn't enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, why would the police turn over the case to the State Attorney's Office?

Exactly, thank you Alessandra. The story just don't add up.

art tart wrote:KimmyK -

I'm sorry your sick today, that really sucks. I guess I have misunderstood your statement about the report/Baez/BDLR and still don't understand it really.

BUT! Serino isn't charged in any crime that I know of, he is scheduled to do a deposition and has lawyered up. If Serino was charged in a crime or involved in a Civil Suit, he would be. IF the State had exculpatory evidence, IF Serino were involved in a criminal suit, Serino's Criminal Defense Attorney would be entitled to it if the State had any. BUT! Serino isn't accused of any crimes that I know of.

Thanks Art. Correct, Serino has not been charged (yet?)...which is why I believe he lawyered up. CYA.
His depo should be interesting, I bet he might be exercising this 5th Amendment Rights a bit.

Tamta wrote:

art tart wrote:

Tamta, - that is probably it, It's going to be hard for West/MOM to get to the original paper chain of events of Serino for a multitude of reasons. His deposition is going to be interesting.

I think Corey might be attempting to rely on statutory exemptions regarding release of criminal and intelligence records.

We've heard her say internal investigation and the FBI and DOJ have been involved.
She also used LEO affiants in her APC.

This would allow some wiggle room to not release certain parts of the investigation to the defense if the intelligence investigation is ongoing, even if Zimmerman is no longer the actual subject of it but investigation into the shooting and its internal handling are.

BINGO!
Zimmerman may no longer be the actual subject of the investigation, but IMO SPD probably is.

Alessandra


If the police believed that there was no probable cause to make an arrest and that there wasn't enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, why would the police turn over the case to the State Attorney's Office?

Snipped for brevity.

I believe what the defense is trying to determine is the precise chain of events that led to Corey's affidavit for Zimmerman's arrest, and that by looking at defense exhibits submitted thus far, facts listed in their pleadings, and items missing in the investigative files, it is safe to assume that LEO 'turning' anything over may be not be considered an indisputable fact.

In fact Corey said so herself, Scott stepped in and turned it over to her office.

KimmyK wrote:

Tamta wrote:

I think Corey might be attempting to rely on statutory exemptions regarding release of criminal and intelligence records.

We've heard her say internal investigation and the FBI and DOJ have been involved.
She also used LEO affiants in her APC.

This would allow some wiggle room to not release certain parts of the investigation to the defense if the intelligence investigation is ongoing, even if Zimmerman is no longer the actual subject of it but investigation into the shooting and its internal handling are.

BINGO!
Zimmerman may no longer be the actual subject of the investigation, but IMO SPD probably is.

Well, that is one way of looking at it.

KimmyK wrote:

art tart wrote:KimmyK -

I'm sorry your sick today, that really sucks. I guess I have misunderstood your statement about the report/Baez/BDLR and still don't understand it really.

BUT! Serino isn't charged in any crime that I know of, he is scheduled to do a deposition and has lawyered up. If Serino was charged in a crime or involved in a Civil Suit, he would be. IF the State had exculpatory evidence, IF Serino were involved in a criminal suit, Serino's Criminal Defense Attorney would be entitled to it if the State had any. BUT! Serino isn't accused of any crimes that I know of.

Thanks Art. Correct, Serino has not been charged (yet?)...which is why I believe he lawyered up. CYA.
His depo should be interesting, I bet he might be exercising this 5th Amendment Rights a bit.

What would Serino be charged with?

KimmyK wrote:

Tamta wrote:

I think Corey might be attempting to rely on statutory exemptions regarding release of criminal and intelligence records.

We've heard her say internal investigation and the FBI and DOJ have been involved.
She also used LEO affiants in her APC.

This would allow some wiggle room to not release certain parts of the investigation to the defense if the intelligence investigation is ongoing, even if Zimmerman is no longer the actual subject of it but investigation into the shooting and its internal handling are.

BINGO!
Zimmerman may no longer be the actual subject of the investigation, but IMO SPD probably is.

According to Crump and Jackson.

Regardless of how or why BDLR dropped the information regarding Serino's draft to Murder 2 APC, I think it is safe to say that Baez intends to show that Serino was not involved in more than one (and contradictory) capias or affidavit relating to an arrest.

Tamta wrote:

Alessandra


If the police believed that there was no probable cause to make an arrest and that there wasn't enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, why would the police turn over the case to the State Attorney's Office?

Snipped for brevity.

I believe what the defense is trying to determine is the precise chain of events that led to Corey's affidavit for Zimmerman's arrest, and that by looking at defense exhibits submitted thus far, facts listed in their pleadings, and items missing in the investigative files, it is safe to assume that LEO 'turning' anything over may be not be considered an indisputable fact.

In fact Corey said so herself, Scott stepped in and turned it over to her office.

The prosecution introduced yesterday Serino's drafts of the charges, not the defense.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Snipped for brevity.

I believe what the defense is trying to determine is the precise chain of events that led to Corey's affidavit for Zimmerman's arrest, and that by looking at defense exhibits submitted thus far, facts listed in their pleadings, and items missing in the investigative files, it is safe to assume that LEO 'turning' anything over may be not be considered an indisputable fact.

In fact Corey said so herself, Scott stepped in and turned it over to her office.

The prosecution introduced yesterday Serino's drafts of the charges, not the defense.

I know.
What is your point?

Tamta wrote:

KimmyK wrote:

Thanks Art. Correct, Serino has not been charged (yet?)...which is why I believe he lawyered up. CYA.
His depo should be interesting, I bet he might be exercising this 5th Amendment Rights a bit.

What would Serino be charged with?

IDK, it just seems like more went on with SPD in this case than I think we know.

KimmyK wrote:

Tamta wrote:

What would Serino be charged with?

IDK, it just seems like more went on with SPD in this case than I think we know.

Why stop at the SPD?
There are clear signs that it extends beyond them.

Scott interfered.
The GJ was canceled.

I do not see the logic behind blaming law enforcement there.

Reposting from older OS article.



"Serino has said he was gathering evidence for a manslaughter charge when the police department turned the case over to the State Attorney's Office.

Serino's paperwork indicated he had probable cause to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter in the teenager's death, even though police officials said there was not enough evidence.

Bill Lee, the police chief who lost his job following the investigation, told the Sentinel police never believed they had enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, but had Serino fill out the probable cause affidavit because without it, the State Attorney's Office would not take over the investigation."



Not a path to the truth IMO, however I am not going to assume that Lee was not ordered to this until further facts come out.

What was Serino's personal evidence for manslaughter that LE did not agree with?

[More]
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-jose-baez-officer-20121120,0,5195388.story

Tamta wrote:

KimmyK wrote:

IDK, it just seems like more went on with SPD in this case than I think we know.

Why stop at the SPD?
There are clear signs that it extends beyond them.

Scott interfered.
The GJ was canceled.

I do not see the logic behind blaming law enforcement there.

I just think there is alot more to this case and it is alot BIGGER than anyone thinks, how far it goes, IDK.
JMO

Tamta wrote:Reposting from older OS article.



"Serino has said he was gathering evidence for a manslaughter charge when the police department turned the case over to the State Attorney's Office.

Serino's paperwork indicated he had probable cause to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter in the teenager's death, even though police officials said there was not enough evidence.

Bill Lee, the police chief who lost his job following the investigation, told the Sentinel police never believed they had enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, but had Serino fill out the probable cause affidavit because without it, the State Attorney's Office would not take over the investigation."



Not a path to the truth IMO, however I am not going to assume that Lee was not ordered to this until further facts come out.

What was Serino's personal evidence for manslaughter that LE did not agree with?

[More]
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-jose-baez-officer-20121120,0,5195388.story

IMO, possibly what SPD had previously been accused of many times before, but we shouldn't discuss here.

Kimmy said:
I just think there is alot more to this case and it is alot BIGGER than anyone thinks, how far it goes, IDK.
JMO

Kimmy = Everyone that wants JUSTICE for both Trayvon and George Zimmerman agree with you. A lot of aspects of this case stink & hopefully are going to be exposed, especially concerning Angela Corey and the take over of the investigation.

The State/FBI can't sit on this information forever, it will all come out, of course, many lie under oath as we observed during the Anthony trial. Though Shellie was charged for perjury, Ashton/Burdick GAVE Cindy Anthony a WALK in a death penalty case for perjury even after KC walked away from murder. Fla. is not consistent in their charging of perjury as consistently observed, some have other agendas

KimmyK wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Why stop at the SPD?
There are clear signs that it extends beyond them.

Scott interfered.
The GJ was canceled.

I do not see the logic behind blaming law enforcement there.

I just think there is alot more to this case and it is alot BIGGER than anyone thinks, how far it goes, IDK.
JMO

I agree.

The point of a capias is not to get rid of an annoying situation or to resolve internal or public discord.

art tart wrote:

Kimmy said:
I just think there is alot more to this case and it is alot BIGGER than anyone thinks, how far it goes, IDK.
JMO

Kimmy = Everyone that wants JUSTICE for both Trayvon and George Zimmerman agree with you. A lot of aspects of this case stink & hopefully are going to be exposed, especially concerning Angela Corey and the take over of the investigation.

The State/FBI can't sit on this information forever, it will all come out, of course, many lie under oath as we observed during the Anthony trial. Though Shellie was charged for perjury, Ashton/Burdick GAVE Cindy Anthony a WALK in a death penalty case for perjury even after KC walked away from murder. Fla. is not consistent in their charging of perjury as consistently observed, some have other agendas

I didn't really follow the CA case. How did Cindy perjure herself?
Disgusting that they just recently found the suffocation info on Casey's computer.
Does anyone know if there are any doc's relating to Chief Lee being fired other than just media reports?

KimmyK wrote:

art tart wrote:

Kimmy = Everyone that wants JUSTICE for both Trayvon and George Zimmerman agree with you. A lot of aspects of this case stink & hopefully are going to be exposed, especially concerning Angela Corey and the take over of the investigation.

The State/FBI can't sit on this information forever, it will all come out, of course, many lie under oath as we observed during the Anthony trial. Though Shellie was charged for perjury, Ashton/Burdick GAVE Cindy Anthony a WALK in a death penalty case for perjury even after KC walked away from murder. Fla. is not consistent in their charging of perjury as consistently observed, some have other agendas

I didn't really follow the CA case. How did Cindy perjure herself?
Disgusting that they just recently found the suffocation info on Casey's computer.
Does anyone know if there are any doc's relating to Chief Lee being fired other than just media reports?

Bonaparte's Letter.

That's posted a couple of pages back here.

There's nothing to suggest that this was the result of an act(s) he committed.
It seems the result of the decision not to arrest being unpopular.

There was talk among city council members to seek the DOJ to maybe investigate but I've never seen anything about that actually happening, although the Martins and other civil rights leaders did publicly accuse Lee.


Snipped.
DOJ:

“The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation. The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident. With all federal civil rights crimes, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person acted intentionally and with the specific intent to do something which the law forbids – the highest level of intent in criminal law. Negligence, recklessness, mistakes and accidents are not prosecutable under the federal criminal civil rights laws.”


----------

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/George-Zimmerman-Was-Not-Arrested-For-Shooting-Trayvon-Martin-Because-His-Self-Defense-Claim-Was-Backed-by-Evidence-Testimony-Chief-Says-143712316.html?fullSite=y

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/06/20/bill-lee-sanford-police-c_n_1614018.html


http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.rbml?&pageType=national&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2F8301-201_162-57457503%2Fsanford-fla-police-chief-bill-lee-fired%2F&feed_id=1&videoid=37&catid=57457503&nb_splitPage=0

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2703029/us-department-of-justice-fbi-and.html

Tamta shared
Snipped.
DOJ:
“The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation. The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident. With all federal civil rights crimes, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person acted intentionally and with the specific intent to do something which the law forbids – the highest level of intent in criminal law. Negligence, recklessness, mistakes and accidents are not prosecutable under the federal criminal civil rights laws.”

Tamta - that statement surely has Team Crump's nose out of joint. imo, that is not what they have ACCUSED since the case began, not the mantra "racist murderer."

- wow! Thanks for all those links, some of the articles I've read, several I have not. (off to read and catch up)

Tamta wrote:

KimmyK wrote:


I didn't really follow the CA case. How did Cindy perjure herself?
Disgusting that they just recently found the suffocation info on Casey's computer.
Does anyone know if there are any doc's relating to Chief Lee being fired other than just media reports?

Bonaparte's Letter.

That's posted a couple of pages back here.

There's nothing to suggest that this was the result of an act(s) he committed.
It seems the result of the decision not to arrest being unpopular.

There was talk among city council members to seek the DOJ to maybe investigate but I've never seen anything about that actually happening, although the Martins and other civil rights leaders did publicly accuse Lee.


Snipped.
DOJ:

“The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation. The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident. With all federal civil rights crimes, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person acted intentionally and with the specific intent to do something which the law forbids – the highest level of intent in criminal law. Negligence, recklessness, mistakes and accidents are not prosecutable under the federal criminal civil rights laws.”


----------

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/George-Zimmerman-Was-Not-Arrested-For-Shooting-Trayvon-Martin-Because-His-Self-Defense-Claim-Was-Backed-by-Evidence-Testimony-Chief-Says-143712316.html?fullSite=y

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/06/20/bill-lee-sanford-police-c_n_1614018.html


http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.rbml?&pageType=national&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2F8301-201_162-57457503%2Fsanford-fla-police-chief-bill-lee-fired%2F&feed_id=1&videoid=37&catid=57457503&nb_splitPage=0

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2703029/us-department-of-justice-fbi-and.html

Yes, thank you Tamta!

Tamta - In reviewing older articles and the article links you provided, your right, it seems Lee left due to the unpopular stance of not making an arrest & not that he had done anything wrong EXCEPT not bending to public pressure. The vote was actually 3 - 2, but it was Bonaparte that had the authority to fire Lee.

I guess if Lee had bent to public pressure, arrested GZ then he might still have a job today. imo, the momentum had already built and those promoting a racial aspect had all the wheels in motion and a media willing to run with any story, even those that were not credible, or of edited tape misleading their viewers but hyping their ratings.

I hope GZ can get a fair trial and jury, but that remains to be seen. all, imo.

SERINO CHANGED REPORT 4 TIMES in 5 HOURS!

SANFORD – After Chris Serino, the Sanford police detective who led the investigation into the Trayvon Martin shooting death, wrote the most important police report in the case, he revised it four times.

And he made at least one huge change: He initially said George Zimmerman should be charged with second-degree murder then changed course and recommended a charge of manslaughter, according to a prosecutor and new list of evidence.

Serino made all those revisions to the report summarizing his findings during one five-hour stretch on March 13, according to a newly-released evidence list

In the first two drafts, according to Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda, Serino wrote that he had probable cause to recommend a second-degree murder charge. Then, over the next hour, he changed the report twice more and in his final version wrote that the evidence supported the lesser charge.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-serino-changes-affidavit-20121212,0,43028.story

from the article:

On Tuesday, de la Rionda handed the much-revised Serino report to defense attorneys, saying he had received it recently from Serino's attorney, Jose Baez, who advised them that it would likely help Zimmerman.

Perhaps meaning the credibility of the reports or Serino's credibility, IDK.

Welcome.

I've got a few more regarding Serino but I need more time to go through and organize them..

My links featuring quotes from 'anonymous' sources inside Seminole County SAO are no longer working.

art tart wrote:SERINO CHANGED REPORT 4 TIMES in 5 HOURS!

SANFORD – After Chris Serino, the Sanford police detective who led the investigation into the Trayvon Martin shooting death, wrote the most important police report in the case, he revised it four times.

And he made at least one huge change: He initially said George Zimmerman should be charged with second-degree murder then changed course and recommended a charge of manslaughter, according to a prosecutor and new list of evidence.

Serino made all those revisions to the report summarizing his findings during one five-hour stretch on March 13, according to a newly-released evidence list

In the first two drafts, according to Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda, Serino wrote that he had probable cause to recommend a second-degree murder charge. Then, over the next hour, he changed the report twice more and in his final version wrote that the evidence supported the lesser charge.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-serino-changes-affidavit-20121212,0,43028.story

Without knowing the precise nature of the edits it's hard to comment.
But we do know some surrounding circumstances.



Seminole County SO analyst says they need pin to investigate phone.

5 March Santiago asks Tracy for the pin.
Same day Julison is brought on.

8 March Serino met with ASA Carter.


Tracy Martin holds PC in Orlando hosted by NAt Jackson same day as Carter goes to SPD to discuss case with Serino.
Says he would not help Police.
Sabrina appears publicly first time.

Lee announces on 13 March that there is no evidence to refute self defense claim.

Serino's affidavit is dated 13 March, signed by 'superiors'.

After investigation:

Serino reports pressure in department to file charges- Barnes, Villanova, Perkins. Also says he thinks source of leaks were internal.

Barnes says to FBI that African American community would have been in uproar.

Serino also reports that he observed that Tracy Martin shifted from accepting the conclusion of the investigation to believing the shooting was racially motivated.

Are his changes do to lack of clarity on the nature of proof he needs to support culpability to write a capias (LEOs aren't legal experts and his imaginary safari statute having been broken: stay in car roll up window, to infer criminality makes me question his legal understanding) so talking with the SAO is standard.

Are they do to the pressure he spoke of?
After the March 8 Presser are other voices weighing in?

-------
P. 42, 183pp doc Serino FBI report

Tamta - you did a good job pulling together the timeline for us, it's difficult to speculate as to the changes Serino made and why without more information. Why did the report have to read a certain way to turn over to the DOJ?

The racial tensions, the PC's by the family, the pressure from the Media and community, different stories within LE as to what happened, it's a mess. I have no doubt there was pressure for charges to be filed.

Tracy Martin shifting to believing the death of Trayvon was racially motivated, reflects the manipulation of the family started immediately by those with agendas. imo. Instead of letting LE continue to investigate, then allowing it to go to the Grand Jury, it's handed off to Angela Corey to quell racial tensions, etc., conduct her own investigation.

While this is interesting, imo, its not going to be important in the big picture in determining GZ's fate.