George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #8

Off Topic:

Monday, 12-10-12, was KZ's birthday! Please take the time to drop by her special "birthday thread" and wish her a happy belated birthday!

Thanks! I know KZ will appreciate your thoughtfulness and kindness!

Here is the direct Link:

http://www.realitychatter.com/t4221-happy-belated-birthday-kz-12-10-12
RC - Happy Belated Birthday, KZ -- 12/10/12

In reading some older articles on Serino, I found this article interesting as many articles are available. imo, this is why perhaps Baez told BDLR this may help the Defense, the fact, can any of it be believed as it clouds the actual facts in the original investigation. Baez has probably warned Serino that lying to the FBI could bring jail time.

People LIE to LE all the time, if it isn't a case like KC's in which Caylee was reported missing as LE originally thought, then LE realized Caylee was deceased, sometimes its never prosecuted, in her case rightly so as were investigative cost assigned to her. BUT! It is a crime to LIE TO THE FBI anytime & those that do find themselves in jail frequently. (Just ask Martha Stewart) (Jim Brown, former Insurance Commissioner in the State of La., my State.) The lies don't even have to be big lies, or even involve the death of another person, ANY LIE to the FBI is a federal crime.

From the Miami Hearld 7=12=12
Sanford Police Officer Chris Serino first made headlines when evidence released in the case showed he sought manslaughter charges against Zimmerman even while his chief publicly said there was no probable cause to arrest him. But a document released late Thursday casts doubt on Serino’s prior sworn affidavit seeking criminal charges, and raises questions about the credibility of the star law-enforcement witness in the murder case against Zimmerman for the shooting death of a black teenager, Miami Gardens high school junior Trayvon Martin..

Telling the FBI that he was concerned that people inside the police department were leaking information, Serino cited Sgt. Arthur Barnes, officers Rebecca Villalona and Trekelle Perkins “as all pressuring him to file charges against Zimmerman after the incident,” an FBI report said. “Serino did not believe he had enough evidence at the time to file charges.

Read more:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510/more-evidence-released-in-zimmerman.html

It is interesting to also learn Sgt. Barnes ask Serino for Tracy's cell phone number, Serino DID NOT provide Sgt. Barnes the phone number as Sgt. Barnes was personal friends with Tracy Martin, Sgt. Barnes got the phone # from someone else. I can see the problems Serino faced trying to just do his job, I can see that there were leaks as Serino indicated and where they came from, sadly, this may have contributed to Team Crump's ratcheting up pressure on Sanford and the MEDIA, in many circumstances, reporting inaccurate information but promoting their agenda. imo.

One of the leaks by the Sanford Police Department was Trayvon's school supension.

"Monday (March 26), the Sanford, Florida, police leaked a report indicating that Trayvon Martin, the 17-year old shot and killed by self-appointed neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman, was suspended from school for 10 days because he had an empty bag that once held marijuana."

After Trayvon school suspension for possessing a bag with traces of marijuana was made public, AP filed a FOIA request to find out if Trayvon had a criminal history........"Also on Monday, authorities confirmed to the Associated Press that Martin did not have a juvenile offender record."

The Sanford Police Department "promised to launch an internal investigation to find out who was the source of the leak."

A new book written by George Zimmerman’s best friend offers a sharply different account of the night Trayvon Martin died.

-------

"Now the book, Defending Our Friend: The Most Hated Man in America, and author Mark Osterman’s two television interviews have landed on the prosecution evidence list, as more versions of Zimmerman’s story emerge. A man who wrote a book calling Zimmerman “the kindest and most sincere” person will wind up in court — for the prosecution, experts agree."

-------

"Osterman, U.S. air marshal who lives in a Central Florida, was among the first people Zimmerman’s wife called on Feb. 26 when she learned her husband had just shot someone. Osterman rushed to the scene that night, and accompanied his best friend every step of the way through the investigation, including his first three interrogations by Sanford police.

Osterman acknowledges that former Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee was his one-time lieutenant in the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department whom he held up as a father figure. Osterman says he was quickly recognized by cops on the scene, but insists he never coached his friend on what to tell them after the death of Trayvon, an unarmed Miami Gardens teenager."

---------

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/09/20/3012853/zimmermans-friend-trayvon-grabbed.html#storylink=cpy

For those that haven't convicted GZ as of yet, this is an interesting article on the NBC suit imo and a few other topics. Great background information on GUTMAN being reassigned.

It seems, Gutman tweeted that it was Serino leaking information BUT he immediately deleted it. It has come to light exactly where Gutman has gotten his information, from family Handler's, attending interviews etc. Serino has named the sources he thought were leaking information. Seems, imo, ABC should have removed Gutman from reporting on this case a lot sooner, rather than later, but I guess it all came to light exposing Gutman's participation.

http://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/the-trayvon-martin-case-update-18-the-scheme-team-exposed/

art tart wrote:For those that haven't convicted GZ as of yet, this is an interesting article on the NBC suit imo and a few other topics. Great background information on GUTMAN being reassigned.

It seems, Gutman tweeted that it was Serino leaking information BUT he immediately deleted it. It has come to light exactly where Gutman has gotten his information, from family Handler's, attending interviews etc. Serino has named the sources he thought were leaking information. Seems, imo, ABC should have removed Gutman from reporting on this case a lot sooner, rather than later, but I guess it all came to light exposing Gutman's participation.

http://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/the-trayvon-martin-case-update-18-the-scheme-team-exposed/

Well we know through the DeeDee/witness 8 age situation that Gutman is a liar.

There were a lot of leaks early in the case and a lot of ABC exclusives.

I think some of them were LE leaks but I don't necessarily think it was Serino, but others leaking to make it look like Serino.

Another example of Guttman's dishonesty and negative influence upon this case, as it pertains to LE leaks and Serino's 'capias' dated March 13.


March 27: @ABC confirms State Attorney rejected police recommendation to arrest Zimmerman after he shot #Trayvon Martin.

https://twitter.com/mattgutmanABC/status/184692203719888897

March 27 Sanford PD deny Guttman's statement.
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/error.aspx?err=1
(Statement no longer available to view.)

Seminole State's Attorney Office refuses to comment on Serino's report, receiving written capias or refusal to press charges based on that capias (despite what Angela Corey asserts)

Snipped.
While special prosecutors wouldn't confirm that report about the homicide detective, she did confirm police went to the state attorney with a capias request ("We’re through with our investigation and here it is for you"). A source inside the Seminole County State Attorney's office told the Orlando Sentinel: “If you go with what was reported in the press the first night, there would have been an arrest right away, but obviously something gave investigators pause. We get capias warrants all the time. That doesn’t mean we file charges right away. We investigate to see if it’s appropriate. That’s the responsible thing to do.’’
http://gothamist.com/2012/03/28/trayvon_martin_investigation_hits_r.php

March 28
Gutman through ABC leaks video of Zimmerman at PD appearing to have no injuries.

March 29
SPD releases full video of arrest at station showing Zimmerman's injuries.


_________
Gutman could have been used to float a theory.

Sorry if this is old info, but if GZ chose Baez, his defense would have been 100% paid?? By who?? Interesting.
This of course, according to Frank Taffee...see link to video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5eCDvSn2LE

[quote="Tamta"][quote="art tart"]For those that haven't convicted GZ as of yet, this is an interesting article on the NBC suit imo and a few other topics. Great background information on GUTMAN being reassigned.

It seems, Gutman tweeted that it was Serino leaking information BUT he immediately deleted it. It has come to light exactly where Gutman has gotten his information, from family Handler's, attending interviews etc. Serino has named the sources he thought were leaking information. Seems, imo, ABC should have removed Gutman from reporting on this case a lot sooner, rather than later, but I guess it all came to light exposing Gutman's participation.

http://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/the-trayvon-martin-case-update-18-the-scheme-team-exposed/




imo, it wasn't Serino that leaked information, hence, the tweet IMMEDIATELY being taken downbut Gutman wanted other's to think so. imo, a probable leak could have been a personal friend of Tracy's that worked on the investigation and the 2 other's Serino named. If the leaks are investigated, Gutman can't hide behind a reporter's mantra, "we can't divulge sources, we protect them," ESPECIALLY since there was no confidentiality involved in the sessions w/DeeDee. Other's sat in on those, especially of the interview of DeeDee and Crump.

Too, imo, Crump spoon fed Gutman in many cases. Crump can tell Gutman anything he wants too as it not not illegal but if it is ethical is another story, but Gutman seems to have lost his perspective and objectivity as illustrated in his "exclusives, ONLY ABC has," as they were advertised. I hope Gutman like Tel Aviv, across the world from a story he isn't participating in now, hopefully ABC gets it, LOL, or gets themselves sued.

KimmyK wrote:Sorry if this is old info, but if GZ chose Baez, his defense would have been 100% paid?? By who?? Interesting.
This of course, according to Frank Taffee...see link to video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5eCDvSn2LE

ABC?

Tamta wrote:

KimmyK wrote:Sorry if this is old info, but if GZ chose Baez, his defense would have been 100% paid?? By who?? Interesting.
This of course, according to Frank Taffee...see link to video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5eCDvSn2LE

ABC?

imo, the ONLY person that is going to pay for GZ's defense is through his legal defense fund or monies NBC pays before it goes to trial OR most likely, the taxpayer's of Florida.

KimmyK, Baez has filed bankruptsy 2 X's, was denied a license to even practice law for 8 years due to his character, Baez has had 2 houses in foreclosure since he took KC's case, I can't imagine anyone would finance anyone that Baez represents. Many publishers wouldn't publish Baez's books nor represent him to schedule interviews. Baez did get $ 80,000.00 from the monies Baez/KC SOLD ABC from the videos/pictures of Caylee. Baez was the ONLY attorney that rec'd monies from KC, or should I say, ABC. (notice the pattern of corrupt MEDIA reporting and ABC?)

There is a misconception imo from those that didn't follow KC's trial that Baez is a super attorney, for anyone that followed the case and trial, Baez gave an opening statement claiming George Anthony was a sexual deviant and dumped Caylee's remains in the swamp down the road from their home. ABSOLUTELY no one that knows anything about the case believed that, NOR did Baez present ONE SINGLE piece of evidence to support his wild accusations. The JURY allowed a murderer to walk, imo, because of ineptitude, they didn't see a video of KC doing it, Caylee's remains decomposed and the jury claimed "there was no cause of death" DESPITE the duct tape covering the orfices on her face. Dr. G., the coroner said "she has seen hundreds of drownings but NEVER an accidental drowning of a child w/her face covered in Duct tape and dumped in a swamp." Accidents are usually not charged s why not call LE? KC's jury didn't understand "beyond a reasonable doubt." Baez was smart enough to have a jury consultant in the case, no doubt the 12 juror's or the Pinnella Pinhead's are apparently the dumbest jury contained in one room ever with possibly the exception of OJ's jury, imo.

Legal analyst have stated that the jury selected on KC's case would not have convicted her regardless of the evidence, imo, they are correct.

IMO, the biggest leak to the case so far has been Mr. Crump. I think that Serino leaked a little but things that were leaked that came to the aid of GZ, I don't believe were from him. I was wondering at one stage if it wasn't Bill Lee himself trying to justify why GZ hadn't been arrested.

There are a lot of worms from both sides stuffed into that can...

imo, MOM/West are the absolute best attorney's GZ could have, both have professionally enviable reputations as stated over and over. MOM was said to be "cool under enormous pressure." MOM doesn't break a sweat as shown by the suit with NBC, nor does he miss anything in the case either. For that very reason, I think Crump is going to either be sued or accused in this case by the time it ends.

Their website is a good example of their professionalism, posting all the documents on the case, for Defense and State. I had to laugh, in reading some of the local Orlando Media reports and articles, they too REFERENCE MOM/West's site for the PDF's and information in the case. I guess it's cheaper for the media to also take advantage of the information afforded everyone.

art tart wrote:imo, MOM/West are the absolute best attorney's GZ could have, both have professionally enviable reputations as stated over and over. MOM was said to be "cool under enormous pressure." MOM doesn't break a sweat as shown by the suit with NBC, nor does he miss anything in the case either. For that very reason, I think Crump is going to either be sued or accused in this case by the time it ends.

Their website is a good example of their professionalism, posting all the documents on the case, for Defense and State. I had to laugh, in reading some of the local Orlando Media reports and articles, they too REFERENCE MOM/West's site for the PDF's and information in the case. I guess it's cheaper for the media to also take advantage of the information afforded everyone.

Adding Beasely to the list, Zimmerman has a rock star team.

art tart wrote:

Tamta wrote:

ABC?

imo, the ONLY person that is going to pay for GZ's defense is through his legal defense fund or monies NBC pays before it goes to trial OR most likely, the taxpayer's of Florida.

KimmyK, Baez has filed bankruptsy 2 X's, was denied a license to even practice law for 8 years due to his character, Baez has had 2 houses in foreclosure since he took KC's case, I can't imagine anyone would finance anyone that Baez represents. Many publishers wouldn't publish Baez's books nor represent him to schedule interviews. Baez did get $ 80,000.00 from the monies Baez/KC SOLD ABC from the videos/pictures of Caylee. Baez was the ONLY attorney that rec'd monies from KC, or should I say, ABC. (notice the pattern of corrupt MEDIA reporting and ABC?)

There is a misconception imo from those that didn't follow KC's trial that Baez is a super attorney, for anyone that followed the case and trial, Baez gave an opening statement claiming George Anthony was a sexual deviant and dumped Caylee's remains in the swamp down the road from their home. ABSOLUTELY no one that knows anything about the case believed that, NOR did Baez present ONE SINGLE piece of evidence to support his wild accusations. The JURY allowed a murderer to walk, imo, because of ineptitude, they didn't see a video of KC doing it, Caylee's remains decomposed and the jury claimed "there was no cause of death" DESPITE the duct tape covering the orfices on her face. Dr. G., the coroner said "she has seen hundreds of drownings but NEVER an accidental drowning of a child w/her face covered in Duct tape and dumped in a swamp." Accidents are usually not charged s why not call LE? KC's jury didn't understand "beyond a reasonable doubt." Baez was smart enough to have a jury consultant in the case, no doubt the 12 juror's or the Pinnella Pinhead's are apparently the dumbest jury contained in one room ever with possibly the exception of OJ's jury, imo.

Legal analyst have stated that the jury selected on KC's case would not have convicted her regardless of the evidence, imo, they are correct.

That story of legal fees paid if Baez came on died a very fast death.

Baez obviously did right by his client in the CA case, but I do not think that any of those tactics he used to exploit some of the weaknesses in the prosecution of that case would serve Zimmerman.

DebFrmHell wrote:
IMO, the biggest leak to the case so far has been Mr. Crump. I think that Serino leaked a little but things that were leaked that came to the aid of GZ, I don't believe were from him. I was wondering at one stage if it wasn't Bill Lee himself trying to justify why GZ hadn't been arrested.

There are a lot of worms from both sides stuffed into that can...

DebFrmHell - hopefully most of that is over BUT the handler's of the family, I love that term, even MOM used it in Court, are going to continue to promote their agenda, continue to call GZ a racist murderer, make wild accusations without any validation, and HLN and CNN are going to allow it as they are tabloid news.

Hopefully the National Media that do care about their reputations, ABC, NBC, CBS, & FOX aren't going to participate in the leaks we have seen in the past. Obviously ABC is on notice over Gutman, they didn't send him around the world for a vacation, imo, they wanted to distance him from this story. NBC is on notice, I don't expect anything dishonest to come from them again hopefully. I read a poll last night that said "45% of American's distrusted Media," I can certainly see the logic. MEDIA can spin it anyway they want. imo.

WARNING from MOM/West's website to MEDIA!
especially the goal of Disputing Misinformation. However, in the case of the GZvNBC.com website, we intend on disputing misinformation with the same publicity and vigor that it was originally spread by NBC.

http://www.gzvnbc.com/

Robert Jr and Gladys do a Spanish interview on Univision...
Robert Jr says...

“Racism is a very lucrative sport in this country,” George’s brother Robert Zimmerman Jr. told Univision anchor Jorge Ramos, according to translations by Raw Story’s Arturo Garcia.

Does RZ Jr realize what he said???
IMO, quite true, since GZ pulled in about 340K

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/george-zimmermans-brother-accuses-trayvon-lawyers-of-exploiting-racial-tension-racism-is-a-very-lucrative-sport/

Tamta said:

That story of legal fees paid if Baez came on died a very fast death.

Baez obviously did right by his client in the CA case, but I do not think that any of those tactics he used to exploit some of the weaknesses in the prosecution of that case would serve Zimmerman.

Tamta

Baez negotiated the deal w/ABC for the benefit of himself and KC. Baez had ONLY one murder case before KC's, that guy is serving life, I think, he too was a baby murderer.

The coolest thing that happened was a web slueth member, COPIED all the pictures of Caylee/the videos etc. the first day, BEFORE Lee Anthony could take the site down, and RELEASED them on the internet. She did an interview and said "she didn't want to see KC/Baez profit from the murder of Caylee." That certainly blew a hole in the scam Baez/KC had to exploit Caylee's memories by selling them.

There was absolutely NOTHING the State could do in the prosecution of KC when Baez LIED in opening statements to the Jury. NOTHING in the entire case supported anything he said, nothing, BUT, a jury can believe anything they want, and some of the juror's said "Baez was so cool." A baby is murdered and dumped, but they thought Baez was cool.

It's a sad day in America when the overwhelming evidence as has been said countless times by legal analyst, and recently by Dan Abrams, head legal analyst from ABC, "the jurors needed a video, no matter what the evidence was, they were not going to convict KC because no one saw her do it."

imo, that isn't a weakness in a case. It's a problem in voir dire, it was a mistake, imo, for the STATE not to have a Jury Consultant. Baez has demonstrated the importance of their participation in the selection of 12 idiots. 85% of American's thought KC Anthony was guilty.

sorry, I edited and it double posted. I can't catch up to the puter it seems.

art tart wrote:sorry, I edited and it double posted. I can't catch up to the puter it seems.

Well this is OT,

My view on that case was not that Casey was innocent, but that the evidence for the motive that the State put forth was not strong enough to counter Casey's family supporting her, the photos of her and her daughter, and witness testimony that spoke to her being a good mother.

I think for a jury to convict a mother of capital murder of a child the motive has to be proved well beyond a reasonable doubt.

Ashton and his team may have had a correct theory that Casey wanted to just be free or punish her own mother, but in my opinion they did not effectively prove that theory beyond a reasonable doubt and I think that stuck with the jurors.

I think Baez exploited that.

DebFrmHell wrote:
IMO, the biggest leak to the case so far has been Mr. Crump. I think that Serino leaked a little but things that were leaked that came to the aid of GZ, I don't believe were from him. I was wondering at one stage if it wasn't Bill Lee himself trying to justify why GZ hadn't been arrested.

There are a lot of worms from both sides stuffed into that can...

BBM
ITA Deb, it also seems the media can spin it whatever way the wind is blowing.

KimmyK wrote:

DebFrmHell wrote:
IMO, the biggest leak to the case so far has been Mr. Crump. I think that Serino leaked a little but things that were leaked that came to the aid of GZ, I don't believe were from him. I was wondering at one stage if it wasn't Bill Lee himself trying to justify why GZ hadn't been arrested.

There are a lot of worms from both sides stuffed into that can...

BBM
ITA Deb, it also seems the media can spin it whatever way the wind is blowing.

Regardless of the leaks, the issue remains that there was probable cause to arrest Zimmerman for Murder 2 when 24 hours prior there was not.

The likelihood that new direct or forensic evidence came to light in that time is extremely low.

Tamta wrote:

KimmyK wrote:
BBM
ITA Deb, it also seems the media can spin it whatever way the wind is blowing.

Regardless of the leaks, the issue remains that there was probable cause to arrest Zimmerman for Murder 2 when 24 hours prior there was not.

The likelihood that new direct or forensic evidence came to light in that time is extremely low.

I agree with all of you...............

Document suggests investigators questioned whether to charge Zimmerman

There is new proof that investigators debated whether George Zimmerman deserved any charges at all after his deadly confrontation with Trayvon Martin in February.

WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said police usually don't make any recommendation on which charge to file in a case when they're not making an arrest. He said that's the whole point of letting prosecutors decide whether there should be an arrest, and if there should be, for what reasons.

“How that came about, they can depose him and find out. My point in saying that is not to talk about, OK, second-degree or manslaughter. That's why we have a trial,” said special prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda.

Sheaffer said it's not just all the revisions that are unusual but that it's highly unusual that police made any recommendation at all since they were not going to make an arrest.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/document-suggests-investigators-questioned-whether/nTWLK/

art tart wrote:Document suggests investigators questioned whether to charge Zimmerman

There is new proof that investigators debated whether George Zimmerman deserved any charges at all after his deadly confrontation with Trayvon Martin in February.

WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said police usually don't make any recommendation on which charge to file in a case when they're not making an arrest. He said that's the whole point of letting prosecutors decide whether there should be an arrest, and if there should be, for what reasons.

“How that came about, they can depose him and find out. My point in saying that is not to talk about, OK, second-degree or manslaughter. That's why we have a trial,” said special prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda.

Sheaffer said it's not just all the revisions that are unusual but that it's highly unusual that police made any recommendation at all since they were not going to make an arrest.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/document-suggests-investigators-questioned-whether/nTWLK/

Agree with Sheaffer and I remember at least Jeralyn at TL, and a couple other legal blogs saying the same thing and that they just did not really think it was true.

Tamta wrote:

art tart wrote:Document suggests investigators questioned whether to charge Zimmerman

There is new proof that investigators debated whether George Zimmerman deserved any charges at all after his deadly confrontation with Trayvon Martin in February.

WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said police usually don't make any recommendation on which charge to file in a case when they're not making an arrest. He said that's the whole point of letting prosecutors decide whether there should be an arrest, and if there should be, for what reasons.

“How that came about, they can depose him and find out. My point in saying that is not to talk about, OK, second-degree or manslaughter. That's why we have a trial,” said special prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda.

Sheaffer said it's not just all the revisions that are unusual but that it's highly unusual that police made any recommendation at all since they were not going to make an arrest.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/document-suggests-investigators-questioned-whether/nTWLK/

Agree with Sheaffer and I remember at least Jeralyn at TL, and a couple other legal blogs saying the same thing and that they just did not really think it was true.

IMO IMO IMO
Here's what I think...
Serino began to doubt GZ's STORY of the events that occured that night.
He was met by opposition from higher ups to charge GZ with anything...
IIRC, Why would Wolfinger and Lee show up at a shooting scene on a Sunday night???
Did Osterman call Lee? How WAS Lee informed that night?? Why would Wolfinger be there as well??
Stinky to me...IMO IMO IMO
Sorry, don't have the links anymore...

KimmyK wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Agree with Sheaffer and I remember at least Jeralyn at TL, and a couple other legal blogs saying the same thing and that they just did not really think it was true.

IMO IMO IMO
Here's what I think...
Serino began to doubt GZ's STORY of the events that occured that night.
He was met by opposition from higher ups to charge GZ with anything...
Why would Wolfinger and Lee show up at a shooting scene on a Sunday night???
Did Osterman call Lee? How WAS Lee informed that night?? Why would Wolfinger be there as well??
Stinky to me...IMO IMO IMO
Sorry, don't have the links anymore...

Well, the SA didn't go to the scene, that was a floating myth.
LE spoke to SAO via phone.
ASA Carter went to SPD on 3/8.

Tamta wrote:

KimmyK wrote:

IMO IMO IMO
Here's what I think...
Serino began to doubt GZ's STORY of the events that occured that night.
He was met by opposition from higher ups to charge GZ with anything...
Why would Wolfinger and Lee show up at a shooting scene on a Sunday night???
Did Osterman call Lee? How WAS Lee informed that night?? Why would Wolfinger be there as well??
Stinky to me...IMO IMO IMO
Sorry, don't have the links anymore...

Well, the SA didn't go to the scene, that was a floating myth.
LE spoke to SAO via phone.
ASA Carter went to SPD on 3/8.

Thanks, b/c I know I remember reading that somewhere. Wonder who reported that? ABC?
Was Lee actually there at the scene as reported??

KimmyK wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Well, the SA didn't go to the scene, that was a floating myth.
LE spoke to SAO via phone.
ASA Carter went to SPD on 3/8.

Thanks, b/c I know I remember reading that somewhere. Wonder who reported that? ABC?
Was Lee actually there at the scene as reported??

Lee and Wolfinger being at the scene speaking to investigators was a something only the Martin family said.
That accusation they made became part of why they insisted upon DOJ involvement.
MSM ran with his unsubstantiated allegations.

The SPD spoke to Kelly Jo Hines that night by phone.
(Someone from wolfingers office.)

In Crump's letter to DOJ he also mentions an affidavit 'filed' by Serino that says Serino didn't believe George.


http://m.clickorlando.com/news/State-attorney-outraged-by-federal-review-request-in-Trayvon-Martin-case/-/16721250/10042672/-/i0l4ac/-/index.html

http://www.clickorlando.com/blob/view/-/10042462/data/2431932/-/12q62jp/-/Crump-letter-for-review.pdf

KimmyK wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Well, the SA didn't go to the scene, that was a floating myth.
LE spoke to SAO via phone.
ASA Carter went to SPD on 3/8.

Thanks, b/c I know I remember reading that somewhere. Wonder who reported that? ABC?
Was Lee actually there at the scene as reported??

Actually Chief Lee did show up there. After Serino so I remember it to be 8:15-8:30ish. There is a link for it. It is in the Contamination Log that was kept by the rookie officer.

DebFrmHell wrote:

KimmyK wrote:

Thanks, b/c I know I remember reading that somewhere. Wonder who reported that? ABC?
Was Lee actually there at the scene as reported??

Actually Chief Lee did show up there. After Serino so I remember it to be 8:15-8:30ish. There is a link for it. It is in the Contamination Log that was kept by the rookie officer.

Thx Deb!
I was going to re read reports to find that.

KimmyK wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Agree with Sheaffer and I remember at least Jeralyn at TL, and a couple other legal blogs saying the same thing and that they just did not really think it was true.

IMO IMO IMO
Here's what I think...
Serino began to doubt GZ's STORY of the events that occured that night.
He was met by opposition from higher ups to charge GZ with anything...
IIRC, Why would Wolfinger and Lee show up at a shooting scene on a Sunday night???
Did Osterman call Lee? How WAS Lee informed that night?? Why would Wolfinger be there as well??
Stinky to me...IMO IMO IMO
Sorry, don't have the links anymore...

KimmyK,

Here is the link to the letter that Benjamin Crump sent to the DOJ:

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/04/02/Martin_Trayvon-_Ltr_to_Roy_Austin_USDOJ.pdf

The following is an article about the same topic:

Trayvon Martin family lawyers hit back at Wolfinger: 'This family deserves answers'

by Joy-Ann Reid | April 3, 2012 at 1:40 PM

~Snipped~

Natalie Jackson, a lawyer for Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, told theGrio the family “have a right to ask questions, since nobody is giving them answers, and that’s what they’re doing.”

Jackson said the family is “asking the same questions that the American people are asking.” She added, in a pointed rebuke of Wolfinger, who, an anonymous source told theGrio, personally met with the chief on the night of the shooting, February 26th, after which the decision to release Zimmerman was made: “the family is getting the same information the public is getting, through the media, and that’s not how it’s supposed to be. They should be getting it from the source.”

Jackson said Wolfinger’s office failed to keep the family informed when he had the case, and added, “the only source who can get answers for this family at this point, is the Justice Department.”

Read more:

http://thegrio.com/2012/04/03/trayvon-martin-lawyers-hit-back-at-wolfinger-this-family-deserves-answers/

DebFrmHell wrote:

KimmyK wrote:

Thanks, b/c I know I remember reading that somewhere. Wonder who reported that? ABC?
Was Lee actually there at the scene as reported??

Actually Chief Lee did show up there. After Serino so I remember it to be 8:15-8:30ish. There is a link for it. It is in the Contamination Log that was kept by the rookie officer.

Wow. You even remember where it was...You're awesome. There was a ton of pages in the doc dumps. Thanks!

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

KimmyK wrote:

IMO IMO IMO
Here's what I think...
Serino began to doubt GZ's STORY of the events that occured that night.
He was met by opposition from higher ups to charge GZ with anything...
IIRC, Why would Wolfinger and Lee show up at a shooting scene on a Sunday night???
Did Osterman call Lee? How WAS Lee informed that night?? Why would Wolfinger be there as well??
Stinky to me...IMO IMO IMO
Sorry, don't have the links anymore...

KimmyK,

Here is the link to the letter that Benjamin Crump sent to the DOJ:

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/04/02/Martin_Trayvon-_Ltr_to_Roy_Austin_USDOJ.pdf

The following is an article about the same topic:

Trayvon Martin family lawyers hit back at Wolfinger: 'This family deserves answers'

by Joy-Ann Reid | April 3, 2012 at 1:40 PM

~Snipped~

Natalie Jackson, a lawyer for Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, told theGrio the family “have a right to ask questions, since nobody is giving them answers, and that’s what they’re doing.”

Jackson said the family is “asking the same questions that the American people are asking.” She added, in a pointed rebuke of Wolfinger, who, an anonymous source told theGrio, personally met with the chief on the night of the shooting, February 26th, after which the decision to release Zimmerman was made: “the family is getting the same information the public is getting, through the media, and that’s not how it’s supposed to be. They should be getting it from the source.”

Jackson said Wolfinger’s office failed to keep the family informed when he had the case, and added, “the only source who can get answers for this family at this point, is the Justice Department.”

Read more:

http://thegrio.com/2012/04/03/trayvon-martin-lawyers-hit-back-at-wolfinger-this-family-deserves-answers/

Thanks Alessandra!
That seems to explain alot, especially if the Trayvon's parents weren't getting any answers.
Wolfinger then calls Crumps letter "outright lies," but then recuses himself? IMO Hinky/Stinky...

Sounds like the Stuff-Having-Inherent-Truth * is going to hit the * FANN soon.
*Facts -Are-Non-Negotiable
Hopefully, they get to the truth with these upcoming depositions.

Can't take credit for that one, copied it...thought it was pretty good

KimmyK wrote:

Alessandra_Deux wrote:


KimmyK,

Here is the link to the letter that Benjamin Crump sent to the DOJ:

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/04/02/Martin_Trayvon-_Ltr_to_Roy_Austin_USDOJ.pdf

The following is an article about the same topic:

Trayvon Martin family lawyers hit back at Wolfinger: 'This family deserves answers'

by Joy-Ann Reid | April 3, 2012 at 1:40 PM

~Snipped~

Natalie Jackson, a lawyer for Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, told theGrio the family “have a right to ask questions, since nobody is giving them answers, and that’s what they’re doing.”

Jackson said the family is “asking the same questions that the American people are asking.” She added, in a pointed rebuke of Wolfinger, who, an anonymous source told theGrio, personally met with the chief on the night of the shooting, February 26th, after which the decision to release Zimmerman was made: “the family is getting the same information the public is getting, through the media, and that’s not how it’s supposed to be. They should be getting it from the source.”

Jackson said Wolfinger’s office failed to keep the family informed when he had the case, and added, “the only source who can get answers for this family at this point, is the Justice Department.”

Read more:

http://thegrio.com/2012/04/03/trayvon-martin-lawyers-hit-back-at-wolfinger-this-family-deserves-answers/

Thanks Alessandra!
That seems to explain alot, especially if the Trayvon's parents weren't getting any answers.
Wolfinger then calls Crumps letter "outright lies," but then recuses himself? IMO Hinky/Stinky...

Sounds like the Stuff-Having-Inherent-Truth * is going to hit the * FANN soon.
*Facts -Are-Non-Negotiable
Hopefully, they get to the truth with these upcoming depositions.

Can't take credit for that one, copied it...thought it was pretty good

There is no concrete evidence that exists that we can refer to in order to support that Wolfinger was in possession of a formally completed and filed capias request for the arrest of Zimmerman.

It's only a narrative right now.

If there is no official capias request prior to Coreys and no further seeking or creating evidence why is the family entitled to updates from the SA?
What are they getting updated on?

Sanford Police Originally Wanted To Charge Zimmerman

March 28, 2012 11:20 PM

SANFORD (CBSMiami) – New information now contradicts Sanford police chief’s initial claims that there wasn’t enough probable cause to arrest George Zimmerman in the murder of 17-year old Trayvon Martin.

Angela Corey, a special prosecutor assigned to case by Gov. Rick Scott, told CBS4 news partner The Miami Herald that early in the investigation police requested an arrest warrant from the Seminole County State Attorney’s Office.

An incident report on the shooting classified it as “homicide/negligent manslaughter.”

Corey said police did file a capias (a request that charges be filed) with the State Attorney’s Office.

The Seminole County State Attorney’s Office declined to comment on whether its prosecutors ever recommended against filing charges.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/28/sanford-police-originally-wanted-to-charge-zimmerman/

Wow. Interesting post by the blog owner of CTH, Sundance.
I'm not sure where exactly where the facts come from, but interesting, nonetheless.
A poster was defending Mark Omara, and this was the reply.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/12/12/mark-omaras-worst-professional-nightmare-has-come-true/#comments

sundance says:

December 12, 2012 at 11:23 pm

Let me add. If you don’t like BRUTAL HONESTY then this ain’t a comfy site for you. When the baby is ugly

– My manners dictate I prolly will not tell mom, but I ain’t gonna carry a cherub smile just to sell some BS that ain’t real.

If anti-Zimmerman people read this article, GREAT. It honestly explains the reason some of them think Zimmerman is guilty….. which is because Mark O’Mara is an insufferably weak advocate – only concerned with his self interests. (That is why I say O’Mara wears pinkie rings).

I will not be intellectually dishonest about any person(s) who are manipulative liars. And yes, Mark O’Mara is a manipulative liar. Here’s two examples:

1.) Mark O’Mara lied about the defense fund – he knew about it, he was specifically asked if it should be included on the disclosure forms and how to include it. He told George and Shellie not to put it on or declare it. He did…..

Now think about the affect of that falsehood on the entire case, ie. credibility, bail, restrictions, bond raising, media calling GZ/SZ liars… etc etc.

2.) Mark O’Mara lied by omission regarding the passport. George immediately told O”mara there were two, passports. One turned in (expired) the second was in a safe deposit box. That passport was removed by GZ and shipped to O’Mara in the same fed-x box that contained his power of attorney turning over defense
fund control. Let that sink in.

One month later…. BDLR and the STATE use the 2nd passport issue along with the paypal to slam George as a flight risk.

The passport was in O’Mara’s briefcase for that entire month.

Now think about the affect of that second lie by omission to GZ’ credibility, his bond, etc etc.

And these are the ones I don’t care if people read. Imgagine the lies I would not share to protect GZ’s
case. I could fill this entire page with examples of lies, falsehoods, symantical manipulations and obfuscations from the first 90 days of representation alone. In many ways Mark O’Mara is no better than Benjamin Crump.

Need more?

KimmyK wrote:

DebFrmHell wrote:

Actually Chief Lee did show up there. After Serino so I remember it to be 8:15-8:30ish. There is a link for it. It is in the Contamination Log that was kept by the rookie officer.

Wow. You even remember where it was...You're awesome. There was a ton of pages in the doc dumps. Thanks!

My problem is that I remember reading something in all of the reports and then I have to find it.

There is a breakdown of a lot of this at TL. There are no trolls allowed there so there is a pretty good breakdown of evidence. Use their search option in the top right of the screen if you want to try and find references. It runs over the Capitol Dome. I usually try it this way first. With 10 Discovery doc dumps, usually people are talking about it somewhere...

http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php#c5

ETA: The site is run by a Defense Lawyer so take that for what it is worth. If nothing else it is good reference point for reading. Doesn't mean you have to comment or register.

DebFrmHell wrote:

KimmyK wrote:
[/b]
Wow. You even remember where it was...You're awesome. There was a ton of pages in the doc dumps. Thanks!

My problem is that I remember reading something in all of the reports and then I have to find it.

There is a breakdown of a lot of this at TL. There are no trolls allowed there so there is a pretty good breakdown of evidence. Use their search option in the top right of the screen if you want to try and find references. It runs over the Capitol Dome. I usually try it this way first. With 10 Discovery doc dumps, usually people are talking about it somewhere...

http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php#c5

ETA: The site is run by a Defense Lawyer so take that for what it is worth. If nothing else it is good reference point for reading. Doesn't mean you have to comment or register.

Cool! Sounds like an easier way to go back and find some of the older info. Thank you!

KimmyK wrote:Wow. Interesting post by the blog owner of CTH, Sundance.
I'm not sure where exactly where the facts come from, but interesting, nonetheless.
A poster was defending Mark Omara, and this was the reply.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/12/12/mark-omaras-worst-professional-nightmare-has-come-true/#comments

sundance says:

December 12, 2012 at 11:23 pm

Let me add. If you don’t like BRUTAL HONESTY then this ain’t a comfy site for you. When the baby is ugly

– My manners dictate I prolly will not tell mom, but I ain’t gonna carry a cherub smile just to sell some BS that ain’t real.

If anti-Zimmerman people read this article, GREAT. It honestly explains the reason some of them think Zimmerman is guilty….. which is because Mark O’Mara is an insufferably weak advocate – only concerned with his self interests. (That is why I say O’Mara wears pinkie rings).

I will not be intellectually dishonest about any person(s) who are manipulative liars. And yes, Mark O’Mara is a manipulative liar. Here’s two examples:

1.) Mark O’Mara lied about the defense fund – he knew about it, he was specifically asked if it should be included on the disclosure forms and how to include it. He told George and Shellie not to put it on or declare it. He did…..

Now think about the affect of that falsehood on the entire case, ie. credibility, bail, restrictions, bond raising, media calling GZ/SZ liars… etc etc.

2.) Mark O’Mara lied by omission regarding the passport. George immediately told O”mara there were two, passports. One turned in (expired) the second was in a safe deposit box. That passport was removed by GZ and shipped to O’Mara in the same fed-x box that contained his power of attorney turning over defense
fund control. Let that sink in.

One month later…. BDLR and the STATE use the 2nd passport issue along with the paypal to slam George as a flight risk.

The passport was in O’Mara’s briefcase for that entire month.

Now think about the affect of that second lie by omission to GZ’ credibility, his bond, etc etc.

And these are the ones I don’t care if people read. Imgagine the lies I would not share to protect GZ’s
case. I could fill this entire page with examples of lies, falsehoods, symantical manipulations and obfuscations from the first 90 days of representation alone. In many ways Mark O’Mara is no better than Benjamin Crump.

Need more?

That's nothing new from over there.

Wonder what triggered that.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Sanford Police Originally Wanted To Charge Zimmerman

March 28, 2012 11:20 PM

SANFORD (CBSMiami) – New information now contradicts Sanford police chief’s initial claims that there wasn’t enough probable cause to arrest George Zimmerman in the murder of 17-year old Trayvon Martin.

Angela Corey, a special prosecutor assigned to case by Gov. Rick Scott, told CBS4 news partner The Miami Herald that early in the investigation police requested an arrest warrant from the Seminole County State Attorney’s Office.

An incident report on the shooting classified it as “homicide/negligent manslaughter.”

Corey said police did file a capias (a request that charges be filed) with the State Attorney’s Office.

The Seminole County State Attorney’s Office declined to comment on whether its prosecutors ever recommended against filing charges.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/28/sanford-police-originally-wanted-to-charge-zimmerman/

Lee's and Wolfinger's stories don't match.

Tamta wrote:

KimmyK wrote:Wow. Interesting post by the blog owner of CTH, Sundance.
I'm not sure where exactly where the facts come from, but interesting, nonetheless.
A poster was defending Mark Omara, and this was the reply.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/12/12/mark-omaras-worst-professional-nightmare-has-come-true/#comments

sundance says:

December 12, 2012 at 11:23 pm

Let me add. If you don’t like BRUTAL HONESTY then this ain’t a comfy site for you. When the baby is ugly

– My manners dictate I prolly will not tell mom, but I ain’t gonna carry a cherub smile just to sell some BS that ain’t real.

If anti-Zimmerman people read this article, GREAT. It honestly explains the reason some of them think Zimmerman is guilty….. which is because Mark O’Mara is an insufferably weak advocate – only concerned with his self interests. (That is why I say O’Mara wears pinkie rings).

I will not be intellectually dishonest about any person(s) who are manipulative liars. And yes, Mark O’Mara is a manipulative liar. Here’s two examples:

1.) Mark O’Mara lied about the defense fund – he knew about it, he was specifically asked if it should be included on the disclosure forms and how to include it. He told George and Shellie not to put it on or declare it. He did…..

Now think about the affect of that falsehood on the entire case, ie. credibility, bail, restrictions, bond raising, media calling GZ/SZ liars… etc etc.

2.) Mark O’Mara lied by omission regarding the passport. George immediately told O”mara there were two, passports. One turned in (expired) the second was in a safe deposit box. That passport was removed by GZ and shipped to O’Mara in the same fed-x box that contained his power of attorney turning over defense
fund control. Let that sink in.

One month later…. BDLR and the STATE use the 2nd passport issue along with the paypal to slam George as a flight risk.

The passport was in O’Mara’s briefcase for that entire month.

Now think about the affect of that second lie by omission to GZ’ credibility, his bond, etc etc.

And these are the ones I don’t care if people read. Imgagine the lies I would not share to protect GZ’s
case. I could fill this entire page with examples of lies, falsehoods, symantical manipulations and obfuscations from the first 90 days of representation alone. In many ways Mark O’Mara is no better than Benjamin Crump.

Need more?

That's nothing new from over there.

Wonder what triggered that.

I usually don't go there, just kind of ended up there and was a bit suprised with the MOM bashing...

KimmyK wrote:

Tamta wrote:

That's nothing new from over there.

Wonder what triggered that.

I usually don't go there, just kind of ended up there and was a bit suprised with the MOM bashing...

They do very good research at the least.

That a request was sent to SA Wolfinger appears to be a suggestion- with the help from media or third party sources-
and Corey.

Corey would not confirm to the Herald whether a manslaughter charge was recommended by police, but she did say they went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning they were seeking for charges to be filed. An unnamed source told the newspaper that an arrest could have potentially been made, but “obviously something gave investigators pause.”

ABC News reported the lead homicide investigator, Chris Serino, recommended that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter, but the state attorney’s office felt there was not enough evidence to bring a case. He filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night Trayvon was killed, saying he did not believe Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense.

Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/29/report-police-initially-wanted-to-make-arrest-in-trayvon-martin-case/#ixzz2F0FOesbd

A Sanford police incident report shows the case was categorized as "homicide/negligent manslaughter."

The State Attorney's Office held off pending further review, the Herald reported.[More..]

Asked to confirm that the police recommended a manslaughter charge, special prosecutor Angela Corey said:

"I don't know about that, but as far as the process I can tell you that the police went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning: 'We're through with our investigation and here it is for you.' [More..]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/sanford-cops-sought-warrant-to-arrest-george-zimmerman-in-trayvon-martin/1222259

A law-enforcement source, who had been informed of the case by investigators, told Reuters that Serino was eager to bring a charge but encountered resistance from the office of the prosecutor, State Attorney Norman Wolfinger.
"Chris (Serino) would have made a recommendation for manslaughter, but Norm Wolfinger's office wanted it to be a slam dunk," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They don't want to hear that this is wrong or that is wrong with the case. That's the way this county does business." Wolfinger on Monday broke a long silence about the case, denying reports he quashed police intentions to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter.[More...]

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE8320UK20120403?irpc=932

----------

I wonder if this third party anonyous source has any connection to the leaks.

Tamta wrote:That a request was sent to SA Wolfinger appears to be a suggestion- with the help from media or third party sources-
and Corey.

Corey would not confirm to the Herald whether a manslaughter charge was recommended by police, but she did say they went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning they were seeking for charges to be filed. An unnamed source told the newspaper that an arrest could have potentially been made, but “obviously something gave investigators pause.”

ABC News reported the lead homicide investigator, Chris Serino, recommended that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter, but the state attorney’s office felt there was not enough evidence to bring a case. He filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night Trayvon was killed, saying he did not believe Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense.

Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/29/report-police-initially-wanted-to-make-arrest-in-trayvon-martin-case/#ixzz2F0FOesbd

A Sanford police incident report shows the case was categorized as "homicide/negligent manslaughter."

The State Attorney's Office held off pending further review, the Herald reported.[More..]

Asked to confirm that the police recommended a manslaughter charge, special prosecutor Angela Corey said:

"I don't know about that, but as far as the process I can tell you that the police went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning: 'We're through with our investigation and here it is for you.' [More..]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/sanford-cops-sought-warrant-to-arrest-george-zimmerman-in-trayvon-martin/1222259

A law-enforcement source, who had been informed of the case by investigators, told Reuters that Serino was eager to bring a charge but encountered resistance from the office of the prosecutor, State Attorney Norman Wolfinger.
"Chris (Serino) would have made a recommendation for manslaughter, but Norm Wolfinger's office wanted it to be a slam dunk," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They don't want to hear that this is wrong or that is wrong with the case. That's the way this county does business." Wolfinger on Monday broke a long silence about the case, denying reports he quashed police intentions to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter.[More...]

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE8320UK20120403?irpc=932

----------

I wonder if this third party anonyous source has any connection to the leaks.

I suggest it was Lt Randy Smith... Just IMO.

Removed by poster.

Freckles, the problem with Zimmerman's claim that he was the one screaming for help on the night of the shooting, is that he told the police that Trayvon was covering his mouth and his nose with both hands.........“He put his hand on my nose and on my mouth and he says, 'You're going to die"........."He took one hand off my mouth, and slid it down my chest. I took my gun aimed it at him and fired."

Freckles wrote:From above link:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE8320UK20120403?irpc=932

"When we got to the cries for help, that was when Sybrina burst into tears," recalled Jackson. "She said, 'That's Trayvon. That's our son.' She ran out of the room crying." (Zimmerman's brother, Robert, would later swear the voice belonged to George.)"

Apparently, Treyvon's mother recognized her son's voice.
IMO, the main care-taker, often the mother, is the one who would recognize her child's cry. I still respect Tracey for stating he did NOT recognize his son's voice. IMO, he was being honest.

Robert Z., George's father, recognized the voice of his son. At the time, I wonder if the father had been more attentive to his son than the mother, if the father had spent time with his son doing activities, perhaps in camping, and had heard his son's cries before? IMO, it was strange the mother of GZ did not comment regarding the voice on the tape. Did she not believe the voice was George's?

Very good point Freckles, that is where IMO "evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life," comes in...
Here was Trayvon screaming for his life, GZ KNOWS LE is on their way, and GZ shoots and kills him.
IMO, isn't it possible that Tracy was too upset after learning of his son's death to even be thinking straight?

KimmyK wrote:

Freckles wrote:From above link:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE8320UK20120403?irpc=932

"When we got to the cries for help, that was when Sybrina burst into tears," recalled Jackson. "She said, 'That's Trayvon. That's our son.' She ran out of the room crying." (Zimmerman's brother, Robert, would later swear the voice belonged to George.)"

Apparently, Treyvon's mother recognized her son's voice.
IMO, the main care-taker, often the mother, is the one who would recognize her child's cry. I still respect Tracey for stating he did NOT recognize his son's voice. IMO, he was being honest.

Robert Z., George's father, recognized the voice of his son. At the time, I wonder if the father had been more attentive to his son than the mother, if the father had spent time with his son doing activities, perhaps in camping, and had heard his son's cries before? IMO, it was strange the mother of GZ did not comment regarding the voice on the tape. Did she not believe the voice was George's?

Very good point Freckles, that is where IMO "evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life," comes in...
Here was Trayvon screaming for his life, GZ KNOWS LE is on their way, and GZ shoots and kills him.
IMO, isn't it possible that Tracy was too upset after learning of his son's death to even be thinking straight?

Chris Serino said that Tracy Martin was emotionally shaken when he played for him the 911 call that recorded the voice of someone screaming.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

KimmyK wrote:
Very good point Freckles, that is where IMO "evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life," comes in...
Here was Trayvon screaming for his life, GZ KNOWS LE is on their way, and GZ shoots and kills him.
IMO, isn't it possible that Tracy was too upset after learning of his son's death to even be thinking straight?

Chris Serino said that Tracy Martin was emotionally shaken when he played for him the 911 call that recorded the voice of someone screaming.

Any parent would be.

But Tracy Martin also does this:

Tracy expresses to Serino that he sees that Serino was running an investigation that would do its best to get to the truth of the incident, in front of other witnesses Tracy denies the screams are Trayvons, and by Serino's accounts, Tracy understood what the investigation was concluding.

By 5 March, when Tracy is asked about the phone pin, we see Tracy say at the Presser that Nat Jackson held that Tracy would not help law enforcement and that Tracy then believed the shooting had racial motivations.