George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

from twitter:

Orlando Sentinel‏@orlandosentinel
Noted lawyers Mark O'Mara, Mark NeJame to participate in Orlando's version of Dancing with the Stars

O'Mara, NeJame, Tennis, Dr. G to raise funds by dancing

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel

10:12 a.m. EDT, June 4, 2013

An interesting collection of Central Florida legal luminaries, including Mark O'Mara, have signed up to dance, dance, dance and raise money for foster children.

Also enter the Dancing With The Stars-like competition will be medical examiner Dr. Jan Garavaglia and lawyers Mark NeJame and Diana Tennis.

The event is a Sept. 14 fundraiser for CBC of Central Florida, the non-profit that oversees the state's foster care system in Orange, Seminole and Osceola counties.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-dancing-mark-omara-fundraiser-20130604,0,2935180.story

Exclusive George Zimmerman Attorney Gets Emotional

(Mark O'Mara BET Interview)

http://hiphopwired.com/2013/06/04/george-zimmermans-lawyer-tears-up-talking-about-trayvon-martin-during-bet-interview-video/

June 5, 2013 6:45 AM

George Zimmerman Trial: Zimmerman's brother denounces findings of state audio expert as "voodoo forensics"

By Erin Donaghue

(CBS)-- The brother of George Zimmerman, the former neighborhood watch captain accused in the February, 2012 killing of unarmed Florida teen Trayvon Martin, denounced the findings of a state audio expert who analyzed a 911 call as "voodoo forensics."

In the call, placed by a neighbor just before Zimmerman shot Martin during a confrontation in a gated Sanford, Fla. community, a person is heard screaming for help, followed by a loud bang. The state audio expert, Alan Reich, has said that he heard Trayvon Martin saying "I'm begging you" after analyzing the recording, and George Zimmerman speaking like an evangelist or carnival barker saying "These shall be," the Orlando Sentinel reports.

Other experts, including analysts at the FBI, have not heard the phrases that Reich claims to hear in the recording of the call. FBI analysts said they were unable to analyze the recording because of its poor quality, and others haven't been able to determine who was crying for help.

Robert Zimmerman, however, said his family doesn't believe the prosecution can meet its burden in proving his brother was not defending himself at the time he killed Trayvon Martin.

"I think we're optimistic in the sense that we have no doubt George will be acquitted," Zimmerman said. "We're concerned that a trial validates an improper charge and we do not waver from our position that we've consistently maintained - that George is innocent and acted in self -defense."

Read more:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57587677-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-zimmermans-brother-denounces-findings-of-state-audio-expert-as-voodoo-forensics/

George Zimmerman trial: Meet the attorneys

George Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. Jury selection begins June 10. Meet the attorneys you can expect to see in the courtroom and beyond throughout the trial.

By Richard Dool

updated 2:06 PM EDT, Tue June 04, 2013

Read more:

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/05/24/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-attorneys

George Zimmerman Trial: Will Race Trump Sex?

Author: Marsha Hallet
Published: June 05, 2013 at 5:26 am



Time will tell whether our interest in sex can be trumped by our concern about race.

Read more:

http://technorati.com/technology/article/george-zimmerman-trial-will-race-trump/

OptioMac wrote:

In a separate pleading, defense attorney Mark O'Mara has asked the judge to ban prosecutors from using several specific terms, ones he describes as "inflammatory".

They include "profiled", "vigilante", "self-appointed Neighborhood Watch captain", "wannabe cop" and the phrases "He got out of the car after the police told him not to", and "He confronted Trayvon Martin".

In his paperwork, filed Monday, O'Mara writes that there is no evidence Zimmerman confronted Trayvon and that it's a oft-repeated "misstatement" that a police dispatcher told Zimmerman not to get out of his vehicle.

Wrote O'Mara, "There is little probative value by the use if these terms and the danger of unfair prejudice to the jury is substantial."

Read more:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-cop-application-20130604,0,7772961.story

Not taking sides just commenting... I can understand how some of what is being asked for is relevant.
profiling.... is a term that can only be ascribed to a law-enforcement professional... when a citizen presumes a person is guilty of something because of race or appearance it is prejudice, racism etc.. not profiling!
GZ was not self appointed Neighbourhood watch... he may have organized or introduced it... but then it was sanctioned by the neighbourhood..and GZ was sanctioned as one of the patrols.
and correctly the PD did not say "do not get out of your vehicle" they said "we don't need you to do that" in response to GZ following TM. the intent of don't follow was implied but not said.
He confronted Trayvon... yes he most certainly did... because even asking someone to explain their actions or whereabouts is a confrontation.
"wanna-be-cop" yes he had applied and was refused. was he constantly interacting as a civilian with PD to enforce what he saw as problems... and I can only surmise that it was to impress upon PD that he was capable and so they would be familiar when he applied next... did he have the newby cop strut... don't know!!

all my opinion... I said it and I own it... moo moo

Large Donations Spur Zimmerman Defense Fund

on 05 June 2013.

A handful of large donations have bolstered the Zimmerman Defense Fund, bringing the total raised in a week to more than $77,000. This week’s surge in donations has allowed us to to pay outstanding liabilities, which were in excess of $20,000, and make significant investments in deposition transcripts and experts.

We have important hearings Thursday and Friday of this week, and jury selection for the trial begins on Monday. During trial, the Zimmerman defense team will be “all hands on deck,” and there will be additional operational expenses. We also anticipate increased security expenses during trial.

The support we have received in the last week has given us hope that we will be able to meet our goal of $120,000.

http://www.gzdefensefund.com/donate/index.php/updates-2/24-large-donations-spur-zimmerman-defense-fund

George Zimmerman jurors will be anonymous at trial, judge rules

By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel

1:19 p.m. EDT, June 5, 2013

The judge in the George Zimmerman second-degree murder case today ruled that his jury will remain anonymous throughout the trial.

Circuit Judge Debra Nelson's ruling says attorneys in the case are to refer to jurors by number, not name, during jury selection, which begins Monday in Sanford. Writes Nelson: "This is to be done in order to protect the prospective jurors from harassment and pressure from the public at large."

The jurors ultimately seated in the case "shall not be identified or photographed during the course of the trial," Nelson's order says.

Though defense attorney Mark O'Mara had asked the judge to sequester the entire jury pool — hundreds of prospective jurors are set to begin arriving at the Seminole County criminal courthouse Monday — Nelson ruled that "such drastic measures are unnecessary and, in fact, not practical based upon the resources available to the Court."

However, she ruled that the Seminole County Clerk of Courts will not release the names of those prospective jurors. The prohibitions against photographing or identifying jurors "shall be lifted upon their release from jury service by the court."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-jurors-ruling-20130605,0,5478146.story

George Zimmerman trial: Judge to rule on expert testimony for 911 call screams

Expert says Trayvon Martin yelled, 'I'm begging you.'

By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
June 6, 2013

~Snipped~

Of the experts who've weighed in on the case so far, none has been more decisive than Alan R. Reich, who could be a crucial witness for the state. Among Reich's findings, from a recently revealed report:

•Trayvon's voice "is younger and he generates much of what some observers have called screams," including the last scream, which Reich says was the word "stop."

•Zimmerman "makes a seemingly religious proclamation, 'These shall be,'" about one second into the 911 call, while simultaneously Trayvon yells a "distressed, and tremulous 'I'm begging you.'"

Reich's involvement in the case began when he was retained for a May 2012 article in The Washington Post, which said the former University of Washington professor "has worked ... in hundreds of criminal and civil cases over a period of more than 35 years."

Read more:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-audio-experts-20130606,0,6554304.story

Intersection Segment | Orlando Sentinel Columnist Darryl Owens on George Zimmerman Trial

Wednesday, June 5, 2013
By: Brendan Byrne

Play Audio

June 5, 2013 | WMFE- George Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial begins on June 10th in Sanford. The neighborhood watch volunteer is claiming he fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in self-defense after a confrontation in February 2012. Martin is black. Zimmerman is white Hispanic. 90.7's Matthew Peddie talked to Orlando Sentinel columnist Darryl Owens about responses he's been getting from readers regarding race as he follows the story, and about the broader conversations on racial issues the case seems to be sparking, both locally and nationwide.

http://www.wmfe.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=14529&news_iv_ctrl=1041

Zimmerman Trial on Fox.com

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/category/259883/george-zimmerman

News 13 is your source for LIVE, Gavel-to-Gavel coverage of the George Zimmerman trial for the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. It all starts Monday, June 10.

George Zimmerman Case Timeline

Trial date: Monday, June 10, 2013
Next hearing: Thursday, June 6, 2013

Read more:

http://www.cfnews13.com/trayvon-timeline.html

June 6, 2013, George Zimmerman Hearing



http://www.wftv.com/s/watchlive/

Another day of setbacks for Zimmerman
updated 5:42 PM EDT, Thu June 06, 2013
HLN blog

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/05/zimmerman-hearing-prosecutor-violation-live-blog

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN HEARING COVERAGE 6.6.13 PT. 1



More videos of today's hearing at the following links:

https://youtu.be/ZQQ6UaIEKDQ

https://www.youtube.com/user/thecount/videos

Judge rules witnesses in George Zimmerman trial must testify publicly

Published June 06, 2013 / Associated Press

(VIDEO)

SANFORD, Fla. – A Florida judge denied a defense request Thursday to let a handful of witnesses testify confidentially during George Zimmerman's trial for fatally shooting Trayvon Martin.

~Snipped~

Circuit Judge Debra Nelson also heard testimony about whether a voice recognition expert will be allowed to testify at the trial. Cries for help can be heard in the background of 911 calls that Zimmerman's neighbors made during a struggle between the neighborhood watch volunteer and Martin before the unarmed teen was shot. Experts have reached mixed conclusions about whose voice is crying for help

~Snipped~

Testimony was to continue Friday and the judge didn't issue a ruling

~Snipped~

The judge also considered a request from defense attorneys to sanction prosecutors for what the defense said amounts to withholding evidence....

The judge decided to suspend further testimony on sanctions, and any decision, until after the trial.

Read more:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/06/judge-rules-witnesses-in-george-zimmerman-trial-must-testify-publicly/#ixzz2Va3oDUWh

Pictures: George Zimmerman back in court for pre-trial hearing

Image 1 of 38



George Zimmerman back in court
( Joe Burbank / Orlando Sentinel / June 6, 2013 )

George Zimmerman, the accused shooter in the death of Trayvon Martin, in Seminole circuit court, in Sanford, Fla., Thursday afternoon, June 6, 2013. (Joe Burbank/Orlando Sentinel) newsgate CCI B582972101Z.1

Photo Gallery:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/os-pictures-george-zimmerman-back-in-court-for-pretrial-hearing-20130606,0,6854602.photogallery

George Zimmerman hearing ends without ruling on audio experts

Expert says Trayvon Martin screamed 'I'm begging you.' Will jurors hear his testimony?

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
7:44 p.m. CDT, June 6, 2013

SANFORD — An FBI voice examiner who tried to identify who was screaming in the background of a 911 call seconds before Trayvon Martin was shot testified Thursday that it couldn't be done by a respectable scientist.

Hirotaka Nakasone testified that he dissected the 45-second sample and found only three seconds in which the screams were not at least partially obscured by other sounds.

That's too little for a proper analysis, he said.

"It's not really feasible and not possible," he testified, saying he was "disturbed" that other scientists had made identifications anyway.

Some of those other scientists are scheduled to testify Friday at the continuation of a hearing that will determine whether Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson lets jurors hear anyone's opinions about who made those cries for help.

Read more:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/os-george-zimmerman-trial-audio-hearing-20130606,0,1794616.story?track=rss

George Zimmerman's Lawyers Want 911 Call Played in Court

By RUSSELL GOLDMAN
June 6, 2013

~Snipped~

The defense team told ABC News today that it wants this emotional tape played before the jury.

"That 911 call will get played in court. It is an important piece of evidence that will be played for the jury to make up their mind," said Shawn Vincent, spokesman for the O'Mara Law Group.

Prosecutors believe the voice belongs to Martin and wants the jury to hear what they claim are the teenager's last words. They argue that while scientists might have different opinions about whose voice it is, the methodology is sound.

Read more:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-judge-rules-witnesses-anonymous/story?id=19339871

trial notes!

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/05/zimmerman-hearing-prosecutor-violation-live-blog?hpt=hp_t3

Anyone have a better link?

Orlando Sentinel:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/os-live-chat-george-zimmerman-lawyers-in-court-20130606,0,4807163.story

WPTV:
Transcript and link (won't work for me)
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/george-zimmerman-hearing-live-streaming-video-key-zimmerman-hearing-continues-friday

WPTV:
http://www.wptv.com/generic/news/national/George-Zimmerman-trial-complete-coverage?loiu

Scribble Alive:
http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/SinglePost.aspx?PostId=78429484

I keep looking for the mud, grass stains, something to indicate GZ WAS on his back on the ground (as he reported he was) but I see no evidence of any debris upon his clothing. I would think the mud/grass would have been apparent on the back of his clothing and stood out on the orange jacket. Nothing shows.

http://www.wptv.com/gallery/news/news_photo_gallery/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-evidence-photos

Zimmerman hearing on audio experts continues Saturday

Posted on Friday, 06.07.13
By DAVID OVALLE

A hearing on the reliability of audio experts in the George Zimmerman case continues on Saturday after two experts spent all day testifying Friday in a Seminole County court.

~Snipped~

Jury selection is set to begin Monday. But first, Seminole Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson must decide the extent to which audio experts can testify about their examinations of 911 recordings that captured the struggle between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

On Friday, New Jersey audio expert Tom Owens, whose first analysis of the recordings came at the request of the Orlando Sentinel, testified that he compared the recordings to samples of Zimmerman’s voice.

“The screams don’t match at all. That’s what tells me it’s not George Zimmerman,” Owens said.

Read more here:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/06/07/3439569/hearing-on-experts-in-zimmerman.html#storylink=cpy

George Zimmerman Hearing 6/7/13

You Tube Videos:

https://www.youtube.com/user/stateoftheinternet/videos

George Zimmerman Not Screaming for Help, Two Experts Testify Today

New Recording of Travyon Martin's Voice Emerges



By MATT GUTMAN and SENI TIENABESO
June 7, 2013

Two forensic experts testified today that they believe the voice of someone screaming for help moments before Florida teenager Trayvon Martin was shot dead belong to Martin and not to George Zimmerman, the man accused of murder in Martin's death.

But the legal arguments over the tapes will continue into the weekend as prosecutors and defense lawyers wrangle over the testimony of experts who disagree over who is screaming and whether the technology exists to identify the voice.

Read more:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/screams-heart-george-zimmerman-murder-trial/story?id=19345658

Exclusive audio: The Voice of Trayvon Martin George

Zimmerman claims self defense; what really happened the night teen was shot to death?

02:27 | 06/07/2013

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/exclusive-audio-voice-trayvon-martin-19352398

Freckles wrote:I keep looking for the mud, grass stains, something to indicate GZ WAS on his back on the ground (as he reported he was) but I see no evidence of any debris upon his clothing. I would think the mud/grass would have been apparent on the back of his clothing and stood out on the orange jacket. Nothing shows.

http://www.wptv.com/gallery/news/news_photo_gallery/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-evidence-photos

I imagine an actual examination of this jacket might be more revealing than a photograph. Not to mention, especially jackets or other garments that are designed to repel moisture and even stains, some materials (especially synthetics) would be less inclined to take on grass stains (or other similar transfer of matter through contact) than others. Just imagine a plastic rain coat, or literally a plastic tarp being rubbed against grass vs a porous, spongy cotton shirt or something. Not all materials respond identically to various conditions, and it appears this was an all-weather, water-resistant jacket GZ was using (brand of jacket is "Free Country").

Here's a better source for the photos you linked. You can see quite a bit of what appears to be organic matter on the back of GZ's jacket, and one piece on his ear even, etc.

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/defense_discovery/pictures/george_photos.zip

Also keep in mind, that those photos were taken approximately four hours after the incident (according to an excerpt from the discovery documents). Look at the ground in the photos taken of GZ's shoes, and the lower portion of his jeans; there are a number of pieces of grass, etc., which seems to indicate GZ was still shedding that from his clothing at that time.

George Zimmerman hearing on voice experts continues

Neighborhood watch leader charged in death of Trayvon Martin

Published On: Jun 08 2013 09:16:52 AM EDT Updated On: Jun 08 2013 10:20:31 AM EDT

WATCH LIVE: George Zimmerman case:

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/george-zimmerman-hearing-on-experts-continues/-/1637132/20481592/-/e35o95z/-/index.html


SANFORD, Fla. - Determined to begin jury selection on Monday for George Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, a judge will hear remaining disputes on voice experts testifying on Saturday morning.

Zimmerman is in court, which began promptly at 9:30 a.m., wearing a dress shirt, gray sport coat and tie. The hearing is focused on the audio experts testifying about the screams heard in the background of neighbors' 911 calls.

The defense is first calling forensic speech/audio expert Dr. John Peter French from the United Kingdom, via video conference. When questioned about his experience, French said he's handled 5,000 cases and appeared in court 200 times, mostly for prosecution.

Attorney Don West then questioned French on how he analyzes a recording audio sample. As far as analyzing screaming, the features French said he looks for to identify the voice are accent, rate of speech, vowel sounds, and more.

(From the above link)

George Zimmerman trial: Hearing continues on audio experts

Marathon hearing continues with trial looming Monday.

By Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
11:51 a.m. EDT, June 8, 2013

~Snipped~

Another defense expert, California-based former Texas Instruments speech scientist George Doddington, was called to testify next. He expressed strong skepticism of voice-identification.

"Speech is not like fingerprints," Doddington said. "Speech is not like iris scans. Speech is not like DNA."

~Snipped~

French today testified that while Owen's technology might be generally accepted in the scientific community, his methods -- which included looping the scream audio to make it long enough for analysis -- are not.

The defense expert also testified that he found Reich's analysis "disturbing." There's no way to tell from a scream how old the screamer is, he said. Reich's report on the audio said the frequency of the cries suggested they were more likely from the the teenager.

French echoed Reich on one issue: He testified that he doesn't use a set minimum threshold for the number of words or duration of speech needed to do analysis. But French said "critically, it has to be speech, not screaming."

Read more:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-ruling-audio-20130608,0,5224051.story

Interesting hearing. The expert, however, would benefit from not using his wry humor. While he appears serious and knowledgeable, there were many times he was not knowledgeable about particulars. The expert often would refer to other specialists in the area. "I am just an electrical engineer..." kind of begs the question! He stated he is NOT a forensic speech pathologist. He IS keenly aware of how systems are established, more a theorist, IMO. This witness has denied knowledge of specifics, refuses to offer opinions, and has referred the asker (MOM) to half a dozen other specialists.

IMO, he does not do interrelation of voice analyst but only the application of equipment. (He states he is interested in calibration not forensics. He has tried to convince forensics to participation in calibration--- HASR.)
He works on the reliability of equipment under specific conditions. Forensics practitioners don't do that.

Note:
Of interest, as the court was recessing for lunch, the judge admonished the witness he was still under oath and to not discuss the case with anyone and that was to include NOT talking WITH HIS ATTORNEYS. I have never heard that form of admonition.

Zimmerman Trial, Opening This Week, Will Raise Complex Questions

By LIZETTE ALVAREZ
Published: June 8, 2013

Was it murder when George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin? Or was it self-defense?

Read more:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/us/with-zimmerman-trial-to-open-emotions-still-raw.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Alessandra_Deux wrote:George Zimmerman Not Screaming for Help, Two Experts Testify Today

New Recording of Travyon Martin's Voice Emerges

By MATT GUTMAN and SENI TIENABESO
June 7, 2013

Two forensic experts testified today that they believe the voice of someone screaming for help moments before Florida teenager Trayvon Martin was shot dead belong to Martin and not to George Zimmerman, the man accused of murder in Martin's death.

But the legal arguments over the tapes will continue into the weekend as prosecutors and defense lawyers wrangle over the testimony of experts who disagree over who is screaming and whether the technology exists to identify the voice.

Read more:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/screams-heart-george-zimmerman-murder-trial/story?id=19345658

Also from that same article:

ABC News has exclusively obtained a sample of Martin's voice and sent the short sample, gathered as evidence from Martin's cell phone, to a forensic analyst. Kent Gibson of Forensic Audio tells ABC News that a comparison of Martin's voice, Zimmerman's voice and the screams on the 911 tape, indicate the voice is more likely to be Zimmerman than Martin by a significant margin.

However, he adds, so much of the howling and pleading overheard on that 911 tape is muffled or obscured, that only two seconds of the tape are useable. Therefore, he says, that there can be no definitive identification of "the screamer."

That last bit is the most important part.

Speech Expert Says It's 'Imaginary' to Hear Trayvon Martin Pleas on 911 Call



By SENI TIENABESO and MATT GUTMAN
SANFORD, Fla., June 8, 2013

A speech scientist today said it was "imaginary stuff" to assert that Trayvon Martin could be heard pleading for help on 911 tapes the night he was killed in a confrontation with George Zimmerman, who is accused of murder in Martin's death.

The testimony came in an unusual court hearing today, in which Zimmerman's defense team called two witnesses in an effort to rebut the testimony Friday of witnesses who said that Martin pleaded for help before he was shot and killed by the former neighborhood watch captain.

~Sniped~

The expected final witness in the hearing to determine whether a jury will hear testimony that Martin screamed for help before he died got stuck on an airport tarmac.

The announcement by Judge Debra Nelson was followed by a court recess that will end with the first day of jury selection Monday as the second-degree murder trial of Zimmerman begins.

Read more:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/speech-expert-imaginary-hear-trayvon-martin-pleas-911/story?id=19356188

George Zimmerman voice samples



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO5zzZZxnHw

...and these specialists state the voice heard is not GZ':

Freckles wrote:...and these specialists state the voice heard is not GZ'

From April 1st of 2012. I'm pretty sure they didn't have TM's voice to make a comparison with at that time.

George Zimmerman Case: Rare Saturday Hearing

Will the jury be allowed to hear the opinion of experts regarding the 911 tapes?

01:18 | 06/08/2013

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/george-zimmerman-case-rare-saturday-hearing-19357240

Let me get the facts down, and clear up some details straight for a minute:
TM gets suspended from school for marijuana shake, and then he and his father went down to his father’s girl-friend’s house. While at the house, TM decides to watch the basketball game with his father’s girlfriend’s son. TM then leaves the house to go up to the 7-11. At the 7-11, he puts down the Skittles and the Arizona Ice Tea along with his money. After purchasing the food, he heads back up to the gated community and codes in while talking to his girlfriend, Dee Dee. After coding in he heads to the club house, at the same GZ is driving down the street. GZ calls up the NEN, to relay a message down the line to LEOs, reporting that he is seeing a suspi-cious individual who appears to dark colored with his hand up near his waistband. TM than proceeds to walk down the street back towards the house he is staying at. He pulls his hoodie up over his head. GZ proceeds to follow TM down the street all the while on the phone to NEN saying that they have had a lot of burglaries up in the neighborhood. TM heads down the sidewalk not knowing GZ is close behind him. against the orders of the NEN to stand down, GZ heads up the sidewalk to follow TM. GZ tells NEN that he is heading up the side-walk to look for an address. He then goes back down the sidewalk toward the "T" in the sidewalk. When TM supposedly came up the sidewalk and proceeded to attack GZ. TM supposedly then knocked GZ down and sat upon him and proceeded to throw down punches upon GZ’s head. Where upon TM then tried to hold down GZ and proceeded to “bash his head” on the sidewalk.
Now here is where the information gets sketchy, TM only the normal 2 hands yet GZ attributes activities to TM involving 3 hands. TM while holding both hands up over GZ’s mouth and nose, TM slid his hand down GZ’s body to where the gun was on GZ (his hip, or on the small of GZ back depending on his story or re-enactment). GZ, at this time stated that TM was sitting up on GZ’s torso with TM’s knees down on the ground either side of GZ and TM’s legs back toward GZ’s legs. GZ` stated he was unable to get up and fight back against him.
GZ’s arms were pinned down on the ground and GZ was helpless. He believed if he couldn't stand up
he would be made an invalid as he lay on the ground; he had to find a way to make TM stand/back down.
TM then allegedly brought the gun up and attempted to shoot down GZ. But the truth is, TM never brought up any gun to harm GZ. No finger-prints or DNA from TM were ever found on the gun.
There was no evidence collected to show proof GZ was down on the ground fighting for his life as he has claimed. (No mud on the back of his footwear, the seat of GZ pants, etc.) GZ said, while he was fighting TM, GZ to bring the gun up, shooting TM in the chest. TM then fell down from the gun shot and said, “You got me." GZ then stood up and bent down to check TM and to roll TM over. About this time, LEOs rolled up
and told GZ to get down on the ground. From here on out, GZ has told several stories about when they showed up. First, he has said he tossed his gun down on the grass and away from himself. Later, GZ's story changes to the "official" report that the LEOs pulled GZ's gun up out of the holster GZ was wearing on his right hip. This contradicts GZ’s statement that he had dropped or placed his gun down on the ground.
The truth is up in the air right now to whether GZ is telling the truth. hopefully, as this case progresses, we will all see what was on GZ' mind the night this all went down. GZ was picked/stood up and put in the cop car. As he was sitting down in the cop car an individual took a picture of GZ’s face. Officers than took GZ up to the po-lice station and took additional photos of GZ and then proceeded to interview GZ where GZ claimed SYG and was let go. The gun was not returned to him.

Now we all know MOM is demanding that the media let up on his client. So, let us all do so, and ignore this trial. Maybe we ought to stop laying down money for MOM to spend, as Pro bono attorney. Maybe MOM should focus more on getting the evidence down for this court to trial and less focus upon getting MEDIA at-tention. Take a lesson, from TMs family, they have managed to retain their dignity and kept up their respect ability by avoiding the media attention

It will be interesting to see how this judiciary is going to lay down the law in regards to both SYG and the Murder of an unarmed teenager.

A Show of Hands

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwLX8C8kLfk

A Few Questions For Dr. Nakasone

LLMPapa

Published on Jun 7, 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNiYt1Ss_gA

Trayvon's Exemplar

LLMPapa

Published on Jun 7, 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjHibFWTXSU

Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman Voice Id 2013

PrimeauForensics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73tPKeKddfE

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

A Show of Hands

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwLX8C8kLfk

You and Colsnipe must be thinking alike tonight!

I find it interesting the dteam is stating how concerned they are with the media and possible jury pollution. Haven't heard anything from the Martin family but there is MOM wanting to be front and center!

1. He is begging for money;
2. He is thanking everyone (using media) for the money they have sent;
3. He is talking about going on NATIONAL TV ... for some humanitarian cause that just so conveniently happens to appeal to his concerns right about now? And he plans to dance at least once while this trial is on-going. (Why do I think he is now going to accuse a jury of watching him on the sly?)
4. Then there is GZ' family. Isn't it about time the brother or some relative comes forth for their media moment?

I find it interesting how much GZ's family and dteam scream all about the media attention the victim's family is sposedly getting when it is the dteam et al garnering all this publicity.

(Can you say hypocrisy?)

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Trayvon's Exemplar

LLMPapa

Published on Jun 7, 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjHibFWTXSU

As usual, excellent presentation.
"Criminals don't scream for help when they are attacked but 17 yr old boys do."

I've always found it interesting how LLMPapa doesn't allow any comments on his videos... Sorta makes his presentations immune to justified criticism. I suppose he realizes that his logic is often flawed, and if he hopes to maintain credibility amongst his "fans", he's essentially required to silence those voices capable of pointing out those flaws.

ETA: I'm watching this video now: A Show of Hands

It's amusing how easy it would be to dismiss LLMPapa's supposed "gotcha!" moment, but, again, he must silence all the logical minds so he may remain blissfully ignorant of these insights.

allears wrote:

carlakay wrote:well I aint neutral..a young man who was doing no more than talking to his girl on his phone while walking home got shot dead by an armed man who had been told seconds earlier by a police dispatcher NOT TO FOLLOW.

"Seconds" earlier? Well, I suppose each of those four (five?) plus minutes that passed are comprised of 60 seconds each, but that's hardly an accurate way to describe what happened. And what's with the skipping of the fact that the "armed man" suffered a broken nose, two lacerations to the back of his head, and multiple abrasions and other minor injuries elsewhere on his face and head, before using his weapon? And what about the fact that the "young man" that was shot suffered zero injuries (other than an abrasion near one of his knuckles) while this "armed man" received his?

Was Zimmerman likely mistaken with his suspicions that Trayvon was a previous burglar returning to scope the place out? Yes, he probably was. Did that mistake give Trayvon the right to inflict the injuries he apparently did upon Zimmerman? The laws of the state of Florida would certainly say not.

carlakay wrote:This grown man has now been charged with murder by the state of Florida and so I feel those who aint buying the self defense or stand your ground claims have real good reason to call this young mans cause of death murder.

Not everyone that is charged is convicted, nor are they guilty. The "State of Florida", if the Sanford PD qualifies as that as well, also found that there wasn't enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with even manslaughter, that is until emotions were stirred by people that do that best which incited the uninformed or mislead public to protest for an arrest that likely should have never happened.

1. There is no proof that Trayvon Martin (hereafter Trayvon. He was a minor so I use Trayvon) attacked and inflicted the alleged “injuries” on George Zimmerman (hereafter GZ). On the contrary, there are NO traces of GZ’s blood- and/or saliva DNA, body tissue, etc. on Trayvon’s hands, fingernail scrapings, the cuffs of his sleeves etc. (see ME report) – eventhough (a) 45% of GZ’s face was covered with blood (per O’Rouke), (b) Trayvon covered GZ’s nose and mouth with his both hands in an effort to suffocate GZ, (c) simultaneously used the same hands to rain down dozens of deadly blows on GZ’s head and face, (d) simultaneously used the same hands to bash GZ’s head several times on the concrete side walk until GZ’s head was about to explode, etc. Now you are going to tell me that the rain washed the DNA away and that that rain was (a) careful and surgical enough not to wash Trayvon’s own DNA and dirt off of Trayvon’s hands, fingernail scrapings and the cuffs of his sleeves, (b) careful and surgical enough not to disturb the blood trail on the back of GZ’s head or even drop a single drop of rain on GZ's head? Etc.

2. GZ suffered NO broken nose. If you have proof let’s see it. The report from GZ's own private doctor stated “likely broken nose”. There was no medical examination/X-ray (because GZ refused one). That same report also stated that there was no (dry) blood in GZ’s nostrils (!!). A day after a broken nose, blood would still present in the nostril or the nose was NOT borken. From the photo of the GZ’s bleeding nose, it is apparent the blood was not coming from inside his nose but rather the tip of the nose which appeared to have been pierced by a pointed object (supporting the suspicion that GZ might have ran into a tree while pursuing Trayvon).

I have reviewed most of the arguments made by you and find the irrationality of it all along with the inherent intellectual dishonesty quite disturbing. I can excuse they who claim not to know the facts and are as such remaining “neutral” (like Pianist who chose not to see the “facts”). But anyone who knows or claims to know the facts of this case and still think that GZ might be innocent is – just like my own dad – an outright racist. I said it. And I mean it.

BTW, Trayvon was 16yrs and 3 weeks old. He was a juvenile – NOT “a young man”!

allears wrote:I've always found it interesting how LLMPapa doesn't allow any comments on his videos... Sorta makes his presentations immune to justified criticism. I suppose he realizes that his logic is often flawed, and if he hopes to maintain credibility amongst his "fans", he's essentially required to silence those voices capable of pointing out those flaws.

ETA: I'm watching this video now: A Show of Hands

It's amusing how easy it would be to dismiss LLMPapa's supposed "gotcha!" moment, but, again, he must silence all the logical minds so he may remain blissfully ignorant of these insights.

WHICH of “LLMPapa’s logic is flawed”? Link any of his videos and present your arguments and we will discuss them. Please concentrate on that question if you chose to reply. This a challenge since you this “it would be easy to dismiss” LLMPapa’s “gotcha moments”. At this point, you are launching a personal attack against LLMPapa and being cocky about it.

(Sidebar: Have you ever considered that the reason why LLMPapa does not allow comments is because of irrational individuals who refuse to argue the facts but rather result to vitriolic racial assaults on him? I watch LLMPapa. He (LLMPapa) destroyed Expert Knox and knocked him off the stage with the school boy ruler demonstration. After that Expert Knox deleted 98% of his postings on the GZ case and disappeared from the public scene. You probably did not know that? )

Freckles wrote:

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Trayvon's Exemplar

LLMPapa

Published on Jun 7, 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjHibFWTXSU

As usual, excellent presentation.
"Criminals don't scream for help when they are attacked but 17 yr old boys do."

I found very interesting that West questioned the forensic speech/audio expert, Dr. French, about high pitched voices in boys during the time of puberty.

West asked French at what age puberty begin in boys and at what age their voice become lower. French said that puberty starts around the age of 12 in boys and the physical stage is complete around the age of 15 or 16, and sometimes by the age of 17.

West asked him what caused their high pitched voice to become lower and deeper during puberty. French explained that as a boy goes through puberty the larynx, which is located in the throat, gets bigger and the vocal cords lengthen and thicken.

Obviously, the voice that was heard (screaming for help) in the 911 call is very high pitched, the 911 operator asked Mary Cutcher is the person screaming in the background was a man or a woman.

On the second part of the audio clip of Trayvon's voice that was released by ABC News, his voice still sounds high pitched.

colsnipe wrote:Let me get the facts down, and clear up some details straight for a minute:
TM gets suspended from school for marijuana shake, and then he and his father went down to his father’s girl-friend’s house. While at the house, TM decides to watch the basketball game with his father’s girlfriend’s son. TM then leaves the house to go up to the 7-11. At the 7-11, he puts down the Skittles and the Arizona Ice Tea along with his money. After purchasing the food, he heads back up to the gated community and codes in while talking to his girlfriend, Dee Dee. After coding in he heads to the club house, at the same GZ is driving down the street. GZ calls up the NEN, to relay a message down the line to LEOs, reporting that he is seeing a suspi-cious individual who appears to dark colored with his hand up near his waistband. TM than proceeds to walk down the street back towards the house he is staying at. He pulls his hoodie up over his head. GZ proceeds to follow TM down the street all the while on the phone to NEN saying that they have had a lot of burglaries up in the neighborhood. TM heads down the sidewalk not knowing GZ is close behind him. against the orders of the NEN to stand down, GZ heads up the sidewalk to follow TM. GZ tells NEN that he is heading up the side-walk to look for an address. He then goes back down the sidewalk toward the "T" in the sidewalk. When TM supposedly came up the sidewalk and proceeded to attack GZ. TM supposedly then knocked GZ down and sat upon him and proceeded to throw down punches upon GZ’s head. Where upon TM then tried to hold down GZ and proceeded to “bash his head” on the sidewalk.
Now here is where the information gets sketchy, TM only the normal 2 hands yet GZ attributes activities to TM involving 3 hands. TM while holding both hands up over GZ’s mouth and nose, TM slid his hand down GZ’s body to where the gun was on GZ (his hip, or on the small of GZ back depending on his story or re-enactment). GZ, at this time stated that TM was sitting up on GZ’s torso with TM’s knees down on the ground either side of GZ and TM’s legs back toward GZ’s legs. GZ` stated he was unable to get up and fight back against him.
GZ’s arms were pinned down on the ground and GZ was helpless. He believed if he couldn't stand up
he would be made an invalid as he lay on the ground; he had to find a way to make TM stand/back down.
TM then allegedly brought the gun up and attempted to shoot down GZ. But the truth is, TM never brought up any gun to harm GZ. No finger-prints or DNA from TM were ever found on the gun.
There was no evidence collected to show proof GZ was down on the ground fighting for his life as he has claimed. (No mud on the back of his footwear, the seat of GZ pants, etc.) GZ said, while he was fighting TM, GZ to bring the gun up, shooting TM in the chest. TM then fell down from the gun shot and said, “You got me." GZ then stood up and bent down to check TM and to roll TM over. About this time, LEOs rolled up
and told GZ to get down on the ground. From here on out, GZ has told several stories about when they showed up. First, he has said he tossed his gun down on the grass and away from himself. Later, GZ's story changes to the "official" report that the LEOs pulled GZ's gun up out of the holster GZ was wearing on his right hip. This contradicts GZ’s statement that he had dropped or placed his gun down on the ground.
The truth is up in the air right now to whether GZ is telling the truth. hopefully, as this case progresses, we will all see what was on GZ' mind the night this all went down. GZ was picked/stood up and put in the cop car. As he was sitting down in the cop car an individual took a picture of GZ’s face. Officers than took GZ up to the po-lice station and took additional photos of GZ and then proceeded to interview GZ where GZ claimed SYG and was let go. The gun was not returned to him.

Now we all know MOM is demanding that the media let up on his client. So, let us all do so, and ignore this trial. Maybe we ought to stop laying down money for MOM to spend, as Pro bono attorney. Maybe MOM should focus more on getting the evidence down for this court to trial and less focus upon getting MEDIA at-tention. Take a lesson, from TMs family, they have managed to retain their dignity and kept up their respect ability by avoiding the media attention

It will be interesting to see how this judiciary is going to lay down the law in regards to both SYG and the Murder of an unarmed teenager.

Fact: it was feb. 26 2012;

Fact: it was dark and rainy;

Fact: Trayvon was heading back home in the dark rainy night/evening;

Fact: GZ spotted Trayvon and started following/stalking/tailing Trayvon in his truck! (now close your eyes, virtualizw a stranger following you in a truck, at night, in the dark, no persons on the street, etc.);

Fact: Trayvon knew he was being followed/stalked, got scared and reported it to DeeDee;

Fact: “he ran”. Trayvon ran;

Fact: Trayvon ran while GZ was still in his truck;

Fact: Trayvon ran to a play no cars/truck can drive in (and thought that’s the end of the stalking/following). But he was mistaken. Deadly mistaken, because:

Fact: GZ existed his truck and pursued Trayvon on foot (GZ admitted to that)

Fact: GZ (admitted that he) continued to pursue Trayvon even after he agreed with the Dispatcher that he will cease pursuing Trayvon (GZ claimed he continued to go in the same direction to get an address he did not get; on Hannity show GZ was asked: “did you regret getting out of your care to pursue Trayvon?” GZ said: "No Sir”, etc.);

Fact: GZ captured Trayvon (GZ himself said “I met up with him”, DeeDee reported that GZ “bumped Trayvon”, DeeDee, Alan Reich and Tom Owen reported hearing Trayvon say: “get off, get off of me” thereby cementing the allegation that GZ confronted Trayvon and sought to detain him, etc.);

Fact: a struggle ensued. Within seconds Trayvon was dead. A dum dum bullet blew apart his heart and lung;

Fact: there are drips of GZ’s blood on Trayvon’s hoodie, suggesting that GZ was on top of Trayvon when the kill shot was fired. There are smears of GZ’s blood on the pullover Trayvon was wearing inside his hoodie – suggesting that GZ frisked Trayvon for weapon. Witnesses reported seeing GZ parting Trayvon’s legs after the kill shot (the way you normally see cops do in the movies);

Fact: the trajectory of the kill bullet was DIRECT and had NO ANGLES. Thus a perfect straight line that could ONLY be produced if (a) GZ and Trayvon were standing facing each other or (b) GZ was on top of immobilized Trayvon (GZ as we learned recently has been training as an MMA fighter since 2010!);

Fact: after the kill shot and BEFORE the police arrived, GZ was discussing the caliber of the bullet with a witness while Trayvon lay face down in the grass dead/dying;

Fact: Trayvon has no traces of GZ’s blood- and/or saliva DNA and/or bits of GZ’s body tissue in his hands, finger nail scraping, his sleeves, the cuffs of his sleeves, etc. – suggesting that there was no “fight”;

Fact: there are several versions of GZ’s self-defense stories; GZ’s stories are internally inconsistent, inconsistent with each other and inconsistent with objective evidence, the laws of physics and the laws of time and space, etc. Lying about the actions to prove an asserted self-defense is an admission of guilt;

Et cetera, et cetera. Oh boy, I will stop here before this post gets too long. There are hundreds of facts in this case (which I will be very glad to discuss with you and others) that will ultimately send GZ down to the dungeons where he will spend the rest of his miserable life for killing kid who was begging for his life. That’s absolutely horrendous and I don’t care if Trayvon is Chicness, Black, White, Arab, Jew, etc.

For once in my 32yrs old life, I praise MSNBC and other media outlets for seeking justice when our system fail and elected officials sleep on the job.

I have enormous respect for they (such as Ms. Nancy Grace et al) who speak for they who can speak no more, i.e. the DEAD!