Jodi Arias--Trial for the murder of Travis Alexander #30

Randie wrote:One thing that I have noticed that is significant is: I havae today and tonight watched over and over testimony, interrogation, closing arguments and J. Martenaz going after JA in cross exam:  She Doesn't cry when gun shots are talked about.  Watch her!  She sobs and feels pain and despair ONLY when "STABBINGS" are talked about.  She falls apart.  

I have to think about this more and more and more.  It is still a possibility she had knife.  Like I said it would be for me flight or fight for me to jump up out of shear fear and grab the shower door and slam it shut.  (brb I'm testing something in the bathroom).....Just for argument sake I went into the bathroom and did as he is positioned.

GOOD GOD!  It was slippery! I couldn't get my bearings!  There was NOTHING for me to grab to hoist myself up!  GOOD GOD!!!  I was completely wet, no traction!!!!!!!!

Anyone could easily slam a knife in my chest!

Randie wrote:Dr.   ??    Chief of Lababority Services said: "You would be hard pressed to inflict that number of injures in (62 second claim) in that period of time.  You have wounds in the neck, chest, abdomen and the back.  What you have to take in factor here is that it implies that te victim was standing still not moving around or not trying to struggle."  This very well might be the case of shot firs.  (altho one deep gash to the chest first can do the same)

Most if not all 9 wounds in the back are catty corner, side ways...not perpendicular with the body.  She was squatted on the floor next to his hip stabbing him.  J. Martenz described this when he showed her bloody sock foot prints next to the body.

Randie wrote:I have barrowed a few thoughts from here and added my own.  I cut and pasted this from my Microsoft works...  Here are my thoughts:

We know from the last "live" facial picture that TA was aware of JA's presence and the danger she posed. We can see that in his perplexed, worried, and scared expression.

I believe JA forced him into the sitting position at gunpoint. I don't think she would have been able to make him sit down if it was a knife.  I believe these are also the words of another poster on here.   Think of it. For me it would have been a fight or flight reaction to reach up and grab the shower door at the top and slam it shut. He would have some protection against a knife.

On the other hand a person in a shower would already be compromised would comply with the demands of someone threatening them with a gun. I would refuse to sit down and I would remain standing...I would be scoping how to protect myself or attack the attacker.

Travis was strong and bigger than JA. So...I think that JA forced him to sit down at gunpoint.

I think she thought their sexual escaped would win him back. He would dump the new gal and take her to Cancun...thus why the travel size toiletires.

I missed this. Where did you read or hear of this evidence? Who had the "travel size" toiletries?

I am assuming he said something like..."stop this, don't do this...all I want is my life back. It is over between us Jodi...please don't do this, please just leave..."


There has been no evidence or speculation introduced as to the end conversations they may or may not have had. Well, JA did state Travis scolded her for dropping the camera... and she instantly began to rage a killing on him. She must have had the weapon at hand... and THAT would be interesting!

Not what she wanted to hear. It enraged her!!! She probably told him what she thought of him and why he deserved to die and then she fired. It should have been a washable murder. Then... just clean up and hide a few thing that showed she had been there way to see Ryan.
No evidence presented to support what JA said or did not say...

But hold the phone!!!!!...the shot didn't kill Travis. He was getting up. JA attempted to fire again. The gun jammed. JA knew that she had to stop him.

In here interrogation I think lies are mingled with the truth... She talks us thru how she shot him and then how he screamed and put his hand on her back. (must have both been on the floor, she said he was on all fours) He must have been so disoriented.
IF Travis was on all fours and putting a hand on JA's back, then JA would have had to be on the floor as well, right? No evidence was introduced ...

I believe she fired again. But the gun jammed. (words from her interrogation) When this happens she had to run and grab the knife she swiped from down stairs (one was shown to be missing on the police report) or grab her own tire slashing knife because she knew that she had to stop him from getting away and getting help.
It does not fit into a timeline for JA to have run downstairs to grab a knife in the midst of killing him. Look to the time stamps on the camera.

Travis managed to make it to the sink in the time that elapsed while crazy Jodi retrieved her knife. I think that the blood spray could have been caused by a gunshot wound...blood flowing out of the mouth. Coughing and spattering. It damaged his nasal passages. Blood could easily have been running down his throat. Crazy Jodi returned with the knife and started delivering blows to his back. These were the first stab wounds he wheels around to protect himself with his own hands. This is why so many slashes on his hands.
See above. No timeline to support JA leaving the bathroom with an interrupted killing. Further, she would run the risk of DNA blood transfer, etc..

At the end she has his new camera and starts deleting pictures. She should have taken the camera like she took the gun. Hid them in the desert.
It was a brand new camera. The box and camera strap were left in the upstairs living area outside Travis' bedroom door. Everyone would have been looking for the missing camera. I would expect he charged that to an acct. IIRC, he had purchased the camera in April so the statement would reflect the camera purchase.

I am not convinced yet that the pictures were accidental or camera was malfunctioning and snapping on their own as some have stated.
It has been speculated JA set the camera up to automatically take pics every so often. That is how the "killing" shots were taken. I have heard there were more pics the prosecution elected to not present at this trial (same as with the text messages and emails) to perhaps use in future IF she had been found not guilty.

I practiced standing the way she did, I held his arm with my right thigh and left hand and bent down and pushed "snap" on the phone (which in my opinion was strategically placed by her) with my right hand. You would have never known I did it myself.

Randie wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXR0itwtm74

Please watch and give me your opinions.  I just don't know what to think!

Freckles wrote:

Randie wrote:One thing that I have noticed that is significant is: I havae today and tonight watched over and over testimony, interrogation, closing arguments and J. Martenaz going after JA in cross exam:  She Doesn't cry when gun shots are talked about.  Watch her!  She sobs and feels pain and despair ONLY when "STABBINGS" are talked about.  She falls apart.  

I have to think about this more and more and more.  It is still a possibility she had knife.  Like I said it would be for me flight or fight for me to jump up out of shear fear and grab the shower door and slam it shut.  (brb I'm testing something in the bathroom).....Just for argument sake I went into the bathroom and did as he is positioned.

GOOD GOD!  It was slippery! I couldn't get my bearings!  There was NOTHING for me to grab to hoist myself up!  GOOD GOD!!!  I was completely wet, no traction!!!!!!!!

Anyone could easily slam a knife in my chest!

BBM

Hmm... While anyone could have killed Travis ( stabbed him in the body and slit his throat....29 stab wounds) ONLY one person did.
JA admitted SHE was that one person. And as evidence (camera clips, hair, finger print, her blood  DNA mixed with the victim's blood, the stolen gun, gas cans; interviews and testimony) has shown, she IS the person who killed Travis.

What more evidence would you have liked to see presented?
What is it about the evide4nce that was presented which leaves you uncertain?

I don't want more evidence. I have been so concerned with it being a gun shot first. I tested the shower. I wanted to see how fast I would jump up and grab the shower door and slam it shut. (I wouldn't if she had a gun, however I would if it was just a knife) thinking I could at least protect myself with the glass between me and the attacker. But, I couldn't get up. I realized the first blow to my body could have just as well been a knife to my chest. I had been determined it had to be a gun.

Freckles wrote:To make it easier to respond to the many parts you have presented, I have bolded your areas and green colored/italicized my responses.

Randie wrote:I have barrowed a few thoughts from here and added my own.  I cut and pasted this from my Microsoft works...  Here are my thoughts:

We know from the last "live" facial picture that TA was aware of JA's presence and the danger she posed. We can see that in his perplexed, worried, and scared expression.

I believe JA forced him into the sitting position at gunpoint. I don't think she would have been able to make him sit down if it was a knife.  I believe these are also the words of another poster on here.   Think of it. For me it would have been a fight or flight reaction to reach up and grab the shower door at the top and slam it shut. He would have some protection against a knife.

On the other hand a person in a shower would already be compromised would comply with the demands of someone threatening them with a gun. I would refuse to sit down and I would remain standing...I would be scoping how to protect myself or attack the attacker.

Travis was strong and bigger than JA. So...I think that JA forced him to sit down at gunpoint.

I think she thought their sexual escaped would win him back. He would dump the new gal and take her to Cancun...thus why the travel size toiletires.

I missed this. Where did you read or hear of this evidence? Who had the "travel size" toiletries?

I am assuming he said something like..."stop this, don't do this...all I want is my life back. It is over between us Jodi...please don't do this, please just leave..."


There has been no evidence or speculation introduced as to the end conversations they may or may not have had. Well, JA did state Travis scolded her for dropping the camera... and she instantly began to rage a killing on him. She must have had the weapon at hand... and THAT would be  interesting!

Not what she wanted to hear. It enraged her!!! She probably told him what she thought of him and why he deserved to die and then she fired. It should have been a washable murder. Then... just clean up and hide a few thing that showed she had been there way to see Ryan.
No evidence presented to support what JA said or did not say...

But hold the phone!!!!!...the shot didn't kill Travis. He was getting up. JA attempted to fire again. The gun jammed. JA knew that she had to stop him.

In here interrogation I think lies are mingled with the truth... She talks us thru how she shot him and then how he screamed and put his hand on her back. (must have both been on the floor, she said he was on all fours) He must have been so disoriented.
IF Travis was on all fours and putting a hand on JA's back, then JA would have had to be on the floor as well, right? No evidence was introduced ...

I believe she fired again. But the gun jammed. (words from her interrogation) When this happens she had to run and grab the knife she swiped from down stairs (one was shown to be missing on the police report) or grab her own tire slashing knife because she knew that she had to stop him from getting away and getting help.
It does not fit into a timeline for JA to have run downstairs to grab a knife in the midst of killing him. Look to the time stamps on the camera.

Travis managed to make it to the sink in the time that elapsed while crazy Jodi retrieved her knife. I think that the blood spray could have been caused by a gunshot wound...blood flowing out of the mouth. Coughing and spattering. It damaged his nasal passages. Blood could easily have been running down his throat. Crazy Jodi returned with the knife and started delivering blows to his back. These were the first stab wounds he wheels around to protect himself with his own hands. This is why so many slashes on his hands.
See above. No timeline to support JA leaving the bathroom with an interrupted killing. Further, she would run the risk of DNA blood transfer, etc..

At the end she has his new camera and starts deleting pictures. She should have taken the camera like she took the gun. Hid them in the desert.
It was a brand new camera. The box and camera strap were left in the upstairs living area outside Travis' bedroom door. Everyone would have been looking for the missing camera. I would expect he charged that to an acct. IIRC, he had purchased the camera in April so the statement would reflect the camera purchase.

I am not convinced yet that the pictures were accidental or camera was malfunctioning and snapping on their own as some have stated.
It has been speculated JA set the camera up to automatically take pics every so often. That is how the "killing" shots were taken. I have heard there were more pics the prosecution elected to not present at this trial (same as with the text messages and emails) to perhaps use in future IF she had been found not guilty.

I practiced standing the way she did, I held his arm with my right thigh and left hand and bent down and pushed "snap" on the phone (which in my opinion was strategically placed by her) with my right hand. You would have never known I did it myself.

Freckles wrote:

Randie wrote:Dr.   ??    Chief of Lababority Services said: "You would be hard pressed to inflict that number of injures in (62 second claim) in that period of time.  You have wounds in the neck, chest, abdomen and the back.  What you have to take in factor here is that it implies that te victim was standing still not moving around or not trying to struggle."  This very well might be the case of shot firs.  (altho one deep gash to the chest first can do the same)

Most if not all 9 wounds in the back are catty corner, side ways...not perpendicular with the body.  She was squatted on the floor next to his hip stabbing him.  J. Martenz described this when he showed her bloody sock foot prints next to the body.

BBM
IIRC, according to camera pics, the stabbings (and perhaps the gunshot) happened in less than TWO minutes, not the ONE minute you have indicated. This is according to the last known pic of Travis alive (seated in shower) and the last pic of Travis bleeding from the cut throat (the zippered pant leg pic). We held a pillow and did a closed fist slam into it to see whether it could be accomplished. Easily. In less than a minute... This would then leave time to transport the body to the last picture...

JA purports to be a left handed person yet we have seen her court pics where it appears she is  equally capable with both her hands.
Of my children, I have a lefty who is equally talented cutting fabric, sewing, knitting, playing the piano with her right hand; she only writes left handed. Another child is "ambidextrous" but is not: He is "specialty handed" as he will use the left hand to write and the right hand to color, etc.. He can not switch hands as his sister can.

The cuts on Travis' body which appear to follow a direction would, IMO, indicate JA was positioned in one location long enough to inflict the cuts prior to either Travis or JA changing a position. Did this happen while Travis was on the floor trying to crawl away from her to the door or did this happen while he was at the sink expelling blood from his lungs? Dunno. End result: He is dead and she has confessed.

Mylife101 wrote:@ Randie,

It seems that we are on the same page in regard to how JA actually planned to murder Travis, do a little clean-up, and then vanish as if she had never been there.  If our assumptions are correct then Travis murder did not go as JA had planned it and became an extremely bloody mess that left key pieces of incriminating evidence.

You wrote, "I believe JA forced him into the sitting position at gunpoint. I don't think she would have been able to make him sit down if it was a knife. I believe these are also the words of another poster on here. Think of it. For me it would have been a fight or flight reaction to reach up and grab the shower door at the top and slam it shut. He would have some protection against a knife" (bolded by me)

You make an excellent point here about the shower door providing a barrier between Travis and a knife.  I think most of us can agree that TA was not taken by surprise and was aware that JA was in possession of a weapon.  If the initial threat was from a knife then the shower door would have provided some degree of protection and JA would have been extremely challenged to land the lethal stab to the heart once TA formulated an escape plan and exited the safety of the shower.  JA only received one cut to her finger.  This was a very one sided attack.  TA was left practically defenseless as a result of something.  That "something" was a disorienting gunshot wound to his head, IMO.  So, yes, I am absolutely convinced that the gunshot came first regardless of the prosecution's contention at trial that it was the knife.

As for the camera, I have read quite a few different theories/ideas from the posters here on RC.  Personally, I think the intimate nude pics were on TA's camera because he wanted to have control over what happened to the pics after JA left his home.  He probably planned to delete them and he may have already done so as it was determined that the nudes had been previously deleted.  JA was always suggesting "porn shoots" so TA was probably humoring JA and getting a few kicks of his own.  JA probably thought she was turning TA on to the kind of excitement that would sway his choice of a life partner or guest for the Cancun trip.

As for the murder in progress pics: personally, I believe that all pics following the infamous last face picture of Travis were not intentional and were taken by accident as the camera was knocked about in the chaos.  I don't think that the chaos was a part of JA's plan (gunshot, tidy-up, leave) and, therefore, JA's plan would not have included any form of photographic documentation of the ensuing chaos.  I am open to other suggestions, but the way I see it is that only one of two schools of thought can be reasonable at the same time, ie. 1) gunshot first, quick, clean murder, leave crime scene.  This scenario has no reasonable need to plan to take photo documentation of the chaos because if the plan was successful there would have been no chaos, or 2) JA's plan involved using a knife first and JA anticipated an active, aggressive murder scene in which she could exact her rage on TA and document it with pics.  This scenario can only involve a knife first plan because a successful gunshot wound would not have made for a chaotic and active  "murder" photo shoot.  So, in my humble opinion, in regard to the camera murder shots it was either 1) gunshot first/accidental murder pics, or 2) knife first/ possibly intentional murder pics, but not gunshot first and intentional murder pics.  Anyone else wish to opine on this matter?

I definitely agree with you that throwing the camera in the washer was one of the stupidest things that JA could have done.  That act called a lot of attention to the camera and what might be recorded on the camera.  If she had just taken the camera and the camera bag with her it might have been weeks/months before family or friends realized that Travis camera was missing.  I mean, it's not like "Where is Travis's camera?" is going to be anywhere near the top of the things that family and friends might worry/think about following a brutal murder.  The discovery of the empty camera box in TA's office might have been the only thing that would have tipped LE/family off that a camera was even missing.  Even so, a missing camera does not mean that a camera was involved in the victim's murder.  A missing camera may have simply been loaned to someone else and has never been returned, may have been lost, broken, stolen, etc.  So, yes, a really dumb move throwing the camera in the washer.  I have wondered if, perhaps, JA accidently scooped the camera up in the towels and clothes that she threw in the washer without realizing it was there.  We will never know for sure what was up with the camera being in the washer...but, what I can be reasonably sure of is that the poor decision/or accident to leave the camera behind has probably angered and haunted JA for the past 7 years.  "Gosh Jodi, you could have at least done your makeup taken the camera".

Freckles wrote:From mylife, above:

"....As for the murder in progress pics: personally, I believe that all pics following the infamous last face picture of Travis were not intentional and were taken by accident as the camera was knocked about in the chaos.  I don't think that the chaos was a part of JA's plan (gunshot, tidy-up, leave) and, therefore, JA's plan would not have included any form of photographic documentation of the ensuing chaos. ...."

According to the last pic we have seen, JA "shoe" was supporting Travis' head as she was hauling him  toward the shower area. (I thot about how she would have moved him due to weight factors, etc., and it makes sense his head would be against her foot/leg as she guided the body down the hall, across the bathroom, and into the shower. She wanted him there for "neatness" and had had escaped so she probably justified it as returning him to the shower as was her original plan. ) It is this pic with the camera shot I found interesting.

The camera would have been near the hallway entrance.
Could the camera have been dropped near the bath area, JA picked it up and carried it to the sink area. At the sink, Travis is spitting out blood and JA puts the camera on the sink so as to be able to free her hands to begin stabbing/slashing Travis, thereby accidentally knocking the camera to the floor? The camera took  the last pic UPSIDE down ...  perhaps, on the timer?

When Ja was "cleaning up" she took the knife, the gun, the camera, etc.. She did not bother with the bullet casing as it had not concern to her. (IIRC, there WAS  a bullet casing in the left side of Travis' mouth!!! IF that is true, then TWO shots were fired!!!
How else to account for the bullet casing on the floor and the one "lodged" in Travis' mouth?)

JA thot she had a "nice, clean" plan to kill Travis and she discovered it was a lot more complicated than that...

Mylife101 wrote:

Freckles wrote:From mylife, above:

"....As for the murder in progress pics: personally, I believe that all pics following the infamous last face picture of Travis were not intentional and were taken by accident as the camera was knocked about in the chaos.  I don't think that the chaos was a part of JA's plan (gunshot, tidy-up, leave) and, therefore, JA's plan would not have included any form of photographic documentation of the ensuing chaos. ...."

According to the last pic we have seen, JA "shoe" was supporting Travis' head as she was hauling him  toward the shower area. (I thot about how she would have moved him due to weight factors, etc., and it makes sense his head would be against her foot/leg as she guided the body down the hall, across the bathroom, and into the shower. She wanted him there for "neatness" and had had escaped so she probably justified it as returning him to the shower as was her original plan. ) It is this pic with the camera shot I found interesting.

The camera would have been near the hallway entrance.
Could the camera have been dropped near the bath area, JA picked it up and carried it to the sink area. At the sink, Travis is spitting out blood and JA puts the camera on the sink so as to be able to free her hands to begin stabbing/slashing Travis, thereby accidentally knocking the camera to the floor? The camera took  the last pic UPSIDE down ...  perhaps, on the timer?

When Ja was "cleaning up" she took the knife, the gun, the camera, etc.. She did not bother with the bullet casing as it had not concern to her. (IIRC, there WAS  a bullet casing in the left side of Travis' mouth!!! IF that is true, then TWO shots were fired!!!
How else to account for the bullet casing on the floor and the one "lodged" in Travis' mouth?)

JA thot she had a "nice, clean" plan to kill Travis and she discovered it was a lot more complicated than that...

@freckles,
Only one bullet casing was found at the crime scene. It was the infamous "gunshot or knife first?" casing that was found in the pooled blood just to the left of the sink area.  A projectile (the actual bullet) is what was found lodged in Travis cheek, IIRC.

18thcenturylady wrote:

Randie wrote:

Wow....   I was giving my opinion...  not picking a fight.  Please don't pick apart in detail all my opinions.  I'm to exhausted for that.  Have I offended you Freckles?

REPLY: TO ABOVE
FROM: '18THC.LADY':
Hmmmm....I was a long time poster here until recently. Frankly, I stopped coming and commenting because I was sick and tired of Freckles' sniping remarks---and I am NOT over sensitive. (Don't know this person, and found them to be unnecessarily abrasive and presumptuous).
I was a happy commenter on HM (Hinky Meter) for years and NEVER had such experiences, nor do I now, anywhere else I participate.
So, I guess I am saying R., that I understand why you are taken aback here.

CuriousPortlander wrote:Interesting comments.  Every theory gives me more food for thought.

Interesting point about using the shower door as a shield against a knife, unless CMJA was blocking the door, as someone pointed out.

I think those last few photos were taken accidentally, not intentionally.  The one of the ceiling, and the one taken upside down convince me of that.

I never thought CMJA intentionally threw the camera in the washing machine. She knew how to delete photos, so I'm assuming she would also have known to remove the memory card if she wanted to take the evidence with her. Since the memory card was also found in the washer, I think she accidentally scooped up the camera along with the other items she threw in the wash.

I believe there was one shell casing (the one on the floor by the sink/door stopper).  The bullet itself was found lodged in his cheekbone/jaw (I don't remember exactly where). There was no evidence of a second shot, from what I recall.

Thank goodness she made so many mistakes!

Mylife101 wrote:^^^ @CP, @randie,

Disclaimer: I was not there and I am just speculating again  

I think it is important to consider that Travis would not have needed to get up from a slippery sitting position if Jodi was brandishing a knife as a weapon.  He would never have been sitting down in the first place, IMO.  It is just not normal to finish one's shower sitting on one's bum on the floor of the shower.  I believe that he was forced to sit down...and, not by a knife.

I have a stand-alone shower that is the same as Travis' shower.  I would have most definitely held the glass door shut if threatened by a knife. The door opens out toward where Jodi would have been. The door has a small handle on the inside as well as on the outside.  The door can also be grasped from the top and held closed. In that scenario the worst thing that JA could have done with her knife is to take swipes at his fingers as he attempted to hold the door.  Also, the door opens out and could have been used as a force against JA. Travis could have thrown the door open into JA and effectively knocking her back so that he could make a run for the hall.  I think that it is important to remember that TA was forced to sit BEFORE the shower door was opened.  You can see the water drops on the glass door in the final "alive" photos, thus, proving that the glass door still separated TA and JA and the weapon.  His expression indicated that he was angry (furled brows) and frightened (eyes, jaw), IMO.  TA was not happy about being made to sit on the floor and look at the camera.  The shower door was still closed.  It is my opinion that only a gun could have persuaded TA to sit down in that vulnerable position.

CuriousPortlander wrote:
@Randie - thanks for sharing your re-enactment experience.  I would have thought he'd be able to reach for the door, too.  Hadn't considered how hard it would be to get up from sitting position while wet.  You've convinced me that it would not have been possible, even if she wasn't blocking the door.

Mylife101 wrote:^^^ @CP, @randie,

Disclaimer: I was not there and I am just speculating again  

I think it is important to consider that Travis would not have needed to get up from a slippery sitting position if Jodi was brandishing a knife as a weapon.  He would never have been sitting down in the first place, IMO.  It is just not normal to finish one's shower sitting on one's bum on the floor of the shower.  I believe that he was forced to sit down...and, not by a knife.

I have a stand-alone shower that is the same as Travis' shower.  I would have most definitely held the glass door shut if threatened by a knife. The door opens out toward where Jodi would have been. The door has a small handle on the inside as well as on the outside.  The door can also be grasped from the top and held closed. In that scenario the worst thing that JA could have done with her knife is to take swipes at his fingers as he attempted to hold the door.  Also, the door opens out and could have been used as a force against JA. Travis could have thrown the door open into JA and effectively knocking her back so that he could make a run for the hall.  I think that it is important to remember that TA was forced to sit BEFORE the shower door was opened.  You can see the water drops on the glass door in the final "alive" photos, thus, proving that the glass door still separated TA and JA and the weapon.  His expression indicated that he was angry (furled brows) and frightened (eyes, jaw), IMO.  TA was not happy about being made to sit on the floor and look at the camera.  The shower door was still closed.  It is my opinion that only a gun could have persuaded TA to sit down in that vulnerable position.

Mylife101 wrote:The gun...
The knife...
The gun...

I find it interesting that the gun first/knife first has attracted so much interest and debate.  It is still being discussed even as JA serves her life sentence in Perryville.  Travis is dead regardless of which weapon was used first.  For some reason, it seems that there is just a part of us and the human experience that needs answers to questions such as this one even though having the answer can never change the outcome.  Strange species we humans are at times...

Mylife101 wrote:The gun...
The knife...
The gun...

I find it interesting that the gun first/knife first has attracted so much interest and debate.  It is still being discussed even as JA serves her life sentence in Perryville.  Travis is dead regardless of which weapon was used first.  For some reason, it seems that there is just a part of us and the human experience that needs answers to questions such as this one even though having the answer can never change the outcome.  Strange species we humans are at times...

CuriousPortlander wrote:

Mylife101 wrote:The gun...
The knife...
The gun...

I find it interesting that the gun first/knife first has attracted so much interest and debate.  It is still being discussed even as JA serves her life sentence in Perryville.  Travis is dead regardless of which weapon was used first.  For some reason, it seems that there is just a part of us and the human experience that needs answers to questions such as this one even though having the answer can never change the outcome.  Strange species we humans are at times...

  So true!  

I know for me, there are things that just nag at me from the back of my mind, even sub-consciously sometimes until someone brings up something that triggers it. Having this discussion has been very eye-opening for me.  I really appreciate everyone's comments and thoughts.  You all observe different things and make unique points that help me sort out my own thoughts.  So thanks to all who've contributed to this discussion.

CuriousPortlander wrote:

Randie wrote:CONFESSION AND MOST DAMAGING TESTIMONY FROM JA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuWWBTNyFtw

Hi, Randie!  Welcome, and thanks for posting this.  I had to watch it again to see how masterful Juan Martinez is.

Hey, Willmott, maybe you should re-watch this video where CMJA admits to three pieces of fabricated evidence:  voice mail to Travis before the Hoover Dam checkpoint; text message to Travis on 6/6/2008 asking when he's going to cash the check, and an email to Travis on 6/7 saying she was sorry she couldn't go see him in AZ because she couldn't get off from work.  Willmott seems to think the only "evidence" she fabricated are the pedo letters; guess again!

Thanks again, Randie!

Mylife101 wrote:^^^ @CP, @randie,

Disclaimer: I was not there and I am just speculating again  

I think it is important to consider that Travis would not have needed to get up from a slippery sitting position if Jodi was brandishing a knife as a weapon.  He would never have been sitting down in the first place, IMO.  It is just not normal to finish one's shower sitting on one's bum on the floor of the shower.  I believe that he was forced to sit down...and, not by a knife.

I have a stand-alone shower that is the same as Travis' shower.  I would have most definitely held the glass door shut if threatened by a knife. The door opens out toward where Jodi would have been. The door has a small handle on the inside as well as on the outside.  The door can also be grasped from the top and held closed. In that scenario the worst thing that JA could have done with her knife is to take swipes at his fingers as he attempted to hold the door.  Also, the door opens out and could have been used as a force against JA. Travis could have thrown the door open into JA and effectively knocking her back so that he could make a run for the hall.  I think that it is important to remember that TA was forced to sit BEFORE the shower door was opened.  You can see the water drops on the glass door in the final "alive" photos, thus, proving that the glass door still separated TA and JA and the weapon.  His expression indicated that he was angry (furled brows) and frightened (eyes, jaw), IMO.  TA was not happy about being made to sit on the floor and look at the camera.  The shower door was still closed.  It is my opinion that only a gun could have persuaded TA to sit down in that vulnerable position.

sitemama wrote:Congratulations CuriousPortlander.  We will certainly rely on you for admin. problems.  Fysty is very busy raising some sort of animal that I had never heard of till 2 years ago when she got her first two.  They are Sugar Babies or Sugar Gliders.  She has converted her entire house over to these babies.  I hope she is not neglecting Tasha and Pop Pop like she is us.  Atleast I get to communicate with her through FB.  Love you fysty.

Mylife101 wrote:^^^ WOW, it appears that CP has also been promoted to Admin!!!

                         Congratulations, Curious Portlander!

               

CuriousPortlander wrote:

sitemama wrote:Congratulations CuriousPortlander.  We will certainly rely on you for admin. problems.  Fysty is very busy raising some sort of animal that I had never heard of till 2 years ago when she got her first two.  They are Sugar Babies or Sugar Gliders.  She has converted her entire house over to these babies.  I hope she is not neglecting Tasha and Pop Pop like she is us.  Atleast I get to communicate with her through FB.  Love you fysty.

Thanks, sitemama!  I look forward to helping in any way I can.

Mylife101 wrote:^^^ WOW, it appears that CP has also been promoted to Admin!!!

                         Congratulations, Curious Portlander!

               

Apparently so!  You found out before I did...      Thank you!!!

Mylife101 wrote:^^^ WOW, it appears that CP has also been promoted to Admin!!!

                         Congratulations, Curious Portlander!

               

CuriousPortlander wrote:@Randie:  Thank you for your kind words.  I think we have a great group of critical thinkers here!  

And you're welcome!  Glad to have you on board!

Mylife101 wrote:Okay, my newly learned picture fetching and posting skills apparently don't work for this type of picture.  Can one of you talented folks fetch this and bring it over?

NO SHAME SANDY ARIAS begging !!

https://twitter.com/TrialDiariesJ

also posted on:

https://twitter.com/asing123