George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #2

So, another question from me....will the jury hear about the passport and money fiascos?

Chickenbutt wrote:So, another question from me....will the jury hear about the passport and money fiascos?

Well, my question would be, what would be the reason for the judge to allow aspects of the bond hearing to be introduced into the trial?

Marica wrote:He is probably patrolling the neighborhood to make sure there are no punks out there about to break in.

GZ tip-toeing thru the townhouses! Me laughing.

I dunno Tamta...just wondering if there is any scenario that it would be brought out. Prior bad acts maybe?

Tamta wrote:

Chickenbutt wrote:So, another question from me....will the jury hear about the passport and money fiascos?

Well, my question would be, what would be the reason for the judge to allow aspects of the bond hearing to be introduced into the trial?

Jailhouse records going to character? Dunno. Were they let in/kept out for CA? What was the legal argument?

Chickenbutt wrote:I dunno Tamta...just wondering if there is any scenario that it would be brought out. Prior bad acts maybe?

It seems like something Lester would restrict.

Kind of seems like in terms of the public opinion, the damage is done.

New avatar Freckles? Very cute..my favorite character of them all.

Freckles wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Chickenbutt wrote:So, another question from me....will the jury hear about the passport and money fiascos?

Well, my question would be, what would be the reason for the judge to allow aspects of the bond hearing to be introduced into the trial?

Jailhouse records going to character? Dunno. Were they let in/kept out for CA? What was the legal argument?

I think it can all come in if he takes the stand.

ellejay wrote:--no sign yet of the

https://twitter.com/jennbisramtv/statuses/209008636251480066?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
still no sign of ‪#georgezimmerman‬. he now has less than 24-hours 2 turn himself in. we are live at the jail. ‪#fox35‬ ‪#breaking‬ ‪#trayvonmartin


--personally, i think he'll wait until the last minute to show up @ the jail. he'll take this last night of freedom, probably eat a decent meal before having to settle again for what an inmate brings to his jail cell @ mealtimes.

ellejay-- Do you think they will let in the jailhouse calls for trial?

I would think he would be locating some cash for expenditures. Newer paypal deposits?
Is the account still open? Is there a newer one now perhaps under a different name?

Chickenbutt wrote:New avatar Freckles? Very cute..my favorite character of them all.

(Thanks. I gave in. I remember how hard I laughed and all the rewinds I asked for during the first 30 seconds of that movie!The house just rocked!!! )

snowbird wrote:

Freckles wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Chickenbutt wrote:So, another question from me....will the jury hear about the passport and money fiascos?

Well, my question would be, what would be the reason for the judge to allow aspects of the bond hearing to be introduced into the trial?

Jailhouse records going to character? Dunno. Were they let in/kept out for CA? What was the legal argument?

I think it can all come in if he takes the stand.

I would say anything that he says in the Bond Hearing can be referenced and used in the trial most definitely.

WHat he says about the issues of failing to disclose his access to that said money can be allowed into trail.

Right now, it seems like Lester will not address the passport issue, IMO.

I think the Judge saw the passport as a non issue since he plans on keeping GZ in jail until trial.
But, it does go to show he and SZ are both big ole liarheads!

ellejay wrote:--no sign yet of the

https://twitter.com/jennbisramtv/statuses/209008636251480066?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
still no sign of ‪#georgezimmerman‬. he now has less than 24-hours 2 turn himself in. we are live at the jail. ‪#fox35‬ ‪#breaking‬ ‪#trayvonmartin


--personally, i think he'll wait until the last minute to show up @ the jail. he'll take this last night of freedom, probably eat a decent meal before having to settle again for what an inmate brings to his jail cell @ mealtimes.

I can almost assure you that Zimmerman does not have an appitite right about now. However, he will wait till the last minute hoping for a pardon by the governor....

Sorry I read money didn't see pass port. I need to wash out my contact.

Chickenbutt wrote:I think the Judge saw the passport as a non issue since he plans on keeping GZ in jail until trial.
But, it does go to show he and SZ are both big ole liarheads!

BBM

He did, but in a link I posted earlier it seemed more because people lose passports and get replacements, therefore that in itself was not enough to place intent to break bond.

The main issue is knowing that he had access to those funds before his bond hearing, and allowing his lawyer and wife to allude that the situation was otherwise, which if that had not happened and the material facts were truthfully put forth, different terms for bond or more specifically the bond amount, may well have been determined.

I agree Tamta...

Chickenbutt wrote:I think the Judge saw the passport as a non issue since he plans on keeping GZ in jail until trial.
But, it does go to show he and SZ are both big ole liarheads!

--judgeL only revoked his bond and ordered him back to jail.

--omara can (and will) ask for another bond hearing to see if judgeL will raise the bond amount, based on the $$'s he did in fact have available the 1st time around or deny bond altogether.

--judgeL has given omara notice that george will have to testify this time, and explain himself to the Court.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/osvideo-ndn-judge-revokes-zimmermans-bond-20120601,0,2519242.htmlstory#

--judgeL--"I find that good cause exists, based upon the material misrepresentations that the Court relied upon. I order him to surrender himself within 48 hours to the Sheriff of Seminole county. If he wants to explain subsequent to that you may reset this for a bond hearing, to give him an opportunity to explain to the Court what happened. And at this time it would be important for him to testify about what transpired”.

Ellejay, can the Judge refuse GZ bond after GZ explains all this away? That's what I was talking about.

I am not Ellejay, but I am going to throw my two cents in. Yes, the Judge can refuse to allow bail this time around. Will he? I highly doubt that he will make GZ sit in jail until trial - but hey, I was pleasantly surprised that the Judge actually revoked bail yesterday. I expected the same ol' leniency that we saw during the CA case. No accountability for perjury.

As for whether all of this can be used against GZ come trial, it most certainly can since it goes to the issue of credibility and credibility is what the defense needs to convince the jury of - since he's the only one who can relay what happened those few minutes before Trayvon was killed. On the other hand, the prosecution is going to be pounding home that GZ cannot be trusted to tell the truth... tells the dispatcher Trayvon is in his late teens, refers to him as a kid, and then on the stand, lies and says he thought Trayvon was just a little younger than himself; GZ lies or schemes to lie to the judge about available funds for bond...the prosecution is going to ask the jury, after all of that, are you really going to believe that it was Trayvon that took the first punch?

JMHO.

2 cents? That was at least a nickel!

CherokeeNative wrote:I am not Ellejay, but I am going to throw my two cents in. Yes, the Judge can refuse to allow bail this time around. Will he? I highly doubt that he will make GZ sit in jail until trial - but hey, I was pleasantly surprised that the Judge actually revoked bail yesterday. I expected the same ol' leniency that we saw during the CA case. No accountability for perjury.

As for whether all of this can be used against GZ come trial, it most certainly can since it goes to the issue of credibility and credibility is what the defense needs to convince the jury of - since he's the only one who can relay what happened those few minutes before Trayvon was killed. On the other hand, the prosecution is going to be pounding home that GZ cannot be trusted to tell the truth... tells the dispatcher Trayvon is in his late teens, refers to him as a kid, and then on the stand, lies and says he thought Trayvon was just a little younger than himself; GZ lies or schemes to lie to the judge about available funds for bond...the prosecution is going to ask the jury, after all of that, are you really going to believe that it was Trayvon that took the first punch?

JMHO.

Exactly......


Well where's Georgie boy?

I will raise to two silver bits!
Well written, CherokeeNative!

What truly annoys me is MOM's whining about how GZ is ONLY 28 years old and how his life is turned upside down. Yeah, well Trayvon's life is a little more than turned upside down, it's friggin nonexistent. Trayvon didn't get the benefit of being able to enjoy life to the ripe old age of 28 yrs. And since when is 28 years of age too young to know that you don't lie to the court? I am sure that GZ is agreeing wholeheartedly with MOM - he was never made to be held accountable for past indiscretions so he is probably wondering why he should be held accountable now? If he had a My Space Page, I would take wagers that he would be thanking Shelly for "not opening her mouth to get his ass pinched." Sorry for the rant.

I don't think GZ will turn himself in until twilight in order to avoid the media (and any "snipers" LOL). The bondsman probably got in contact with GZ or MOM as soon as he heard that the bail was revoked and made arrangements to escort him to the SO suited up in a bullet proof vest.

The picture up thread of inmates having to set up security barriers in anticipation of GZ turning himself in has most likely made a huge impression on the inmates, don't you think? LOL Way to start off getting everyone to like you GZ.

I totally agree. I used to think they were just stupid and insensitive, but I think they are deliberately posturing as if there was nothing tragic here - hes a thug not a kid- and that Trayvon was more responsible than George.

Someone here quoted MOM of saying that Trayvon would have to also have to prove his credibility. Which leads me to believe they will try to paint him in an ugly way.

News flash for MOM - Trayvon cannot defend himself- your client wrongfully killed him. And even discussing Trayvons credibility makes me naseaus to think about.
Does anyone doubt he was unarmed and buying snacks? Sheesh.

CherokeeNative wrote:What truly annoys me is MOM's whining about how GZ is ONLY 28 years old and how his life is turned upside down. Yeah, well Trayvon's life is a little more than turned upside down, it's friggin nonexistent. Trayvon didn't get the benefit of being able to enjoy life to the ripe old age of 28 yrs. And since when is 28 years of age too young to know that you don't lie to the court? I am sure that GZ is agreeing wholeheartedly with MOM - he was never made to be held accountable for past indiscretions so he is probably wondering why he should be held accountable now? If he had a My Space Page, I would take wagers that he would be thanking Shelly for "not opening her mouth to get his ass pinched." Sorry for the rant.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-02/zimmerman-credibility/55346970/1
Zimmerman credibility may be issue in Martin case

The credibility of the neighborhood watch volunteer who fatally shot an unarmed black teenager could be an issue at trial after a judge said that George Zimmerman and his wife lied to the court about their finances to obtain a lower bond, legal experts say.

The questioning of Zimmerman's truthfulness by the judge on Friday could undermine his credibility if it is brought up at trial. It also may complicate how his defense presents him as a witness, said Orlando-area attorney Randy McClean, who is a former prosecutor.

Zimmerman's credibility would be important if O'Mara tries to get a judge without the jury to dismiss the charges based on the stand-your-ground law, said Orlando defense attorney David Hill.

"If he was in on something that was not truthfully revealed to the judge, when there is a 'stand your ground' hearing, of course you're going to second-guess him," Hill said.

Both McClean and Hill said O'Mara would be able to challenge the admissibility of the bond revocation at trial by questioning its relevance.


--more@link---

I bet that Georgie wont talk in code to his wife anymore from behind those bars. He figured out that he's really not smarter than the judge and the public. What a rude awakening that must have been for Georgie.

Gee I wonder how they figured out that I wasn't talking about $8.65 and $10.00, after all that's my average bank balance every month. Before all this happened anyway.

Well Shellie you can kiss hubby goodby for awhile.

ellejay wrote:http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-02/zimmerman-credibility/55346970/1
Zimmerman credibility may be issue in Martin case

The credibility of the neighborhood watch volunteer who fatally shot an unarmed black teenager could be an issue at trial after a judge said that George Zimmerman and his wife lied to the court about their finances to obtain a lower bond, legal experts say.

The questioning of Zimmerman's truthfulness by the judge on Friday could undermine his credibility if it is brought up at trial. It also may complicate how his defense presents him as a witness, said Orlando-area attorney Randy McClean, who is a former prosecutor.

Zimmerman's credibility would be important if O'Mara tries to get a judge without the jury to dismiss the charges based on the stand-your-ground law, said Orlando defense attorney David Hill.

"If he was in on something that was not truthfully revealed to the judge, when there is a 'stand your ground' hearing, of course you're going to second-guess him," Hill said.

Both McClean and Hill said O'Mara would be able to challenge the admissibility of the bond revocation at trial by questioning its relevance.

--more@link---

BBM

I was just discussing this with someone.....IMO, the lies have no relevance in the murder of TM, but it does go to GZ's credibility which in turn has relevance in the murder of TM. Am I making sense?

CherokeeNative wrote:I don't think GZ will turn himself in until twilight in order to avoid the media (and any "snipers" LOL). The bondsman probably got in contact with GZ or MOM as soon as he heard that the bail was revoked and made arrangements to escort him to the SO suited up in a bullet proof vest.

The picture up thread of inmates having to set up security barriers in anticipation of GZ turning himself in has most likely made a huge impression on the inmates, don't you think? LOL Way to start off getting everyone to like you GZ.

--no kidding.

--remember the 1st time around, when he was fearful of being there? the hostility/animosity finding "other ways" to get to him..

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/george_zimmerman_afraid_of_being_UWxL8AHEIjCLzlbwv14seK

--April 16th

George Zimmerman is afraid of being killed while in jail facing charges of murdering Trayvon Martin, his lawyer said today.

“There has been an upwelling of hostility and animosity towards him that can find its way to you in many different ways,” Mark O’Mara said outside the courthouse in Sanford, Fla.

“So he’s concerned because he’s exposed to many people he doesn’t even know,” O’Mara added

--well george, welcome back to those people that you "don't even know"....again.

Would love to see the inmates welcoming GZ... Throwing cans of Az Iced Tea and bags of Skittles at him. Wonder how fast he would figure out it wasn't a confetti welcome.
Sorry, I just in a very bad mood and all of this pukes antics are making me feel even more nasty.

Wonder what kind of people sent that kind of money for it to grow to a really big amount. Yes He is innocent until proven guilty and the media has so many reports on the eye witness changing their stories so alot of people are questioning if he really was guilty so open their pocketbook to make sure he got justice but makes you wonder now if they will ask for a refund since all the lies are adding up way to fast as far as the money growning at leaps and bounds. Looking at the blood on the back of his head would proably make alot of people feel sorry for him. I am not defending anyone here cause I believe all will come out at trial and then we will know more. I was raised to keep an open mind and am trying to see both sides. If you were sitting on the jury you have to do that or that person is condelmed before the trial starts. Maybe the money will now be returned in hopes of him getting out. They seem to have a game plan that came back to bite them in the butt.

Chickenbutt wrote:

ellejay wrote:http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-02/zimmerman-credibility/55346970/1
Zimmerman credibility may be issue in Martin case

The credibility of the neighborhood watch volunteer who fatally shot an unarmed black teenager could be an issue at trial after a judge said that George Zimmerman and his wife lied to the court about their finances to obtain a lower bond, legal experts say.

The questioning of Zimmerman's truthfulness by the judge on Friday could undermine his credibility if it is brought up at trial. It also may complicate how his defense presents him as a witness, said Orlando-area attorney Randy McClean, who is a former prosecutor.

Zimmerman's credibility would be important if O'Mara tries to get a judge without the jury to dismiss the charges based on the stand-your-ground law, said Orlando defense attorney David Hill.

"If he was in on something that was not truthfully revealed to the judge, when there is a 'stand your ground' hearing, of course you're going to second-guess him," Hill said.

Both McClean and Hill said O'Mara would be able to challenge the admissibility of the bond revocation at trial by questioning its relevance.

--more@link---

BBM

I was just discussing this with someone.....IMO, the lies have no relevance in the murder of TM, but it does go to GZ's credibility which in turn has relevance in the murder of TM. Am I making sense?

Hi Chickenbutt I respectfully disagree. This entire case rests on credibility. There is no one else that can testify that Trayvon attacked GZ. The witnesses can only testify that GZ was losing the fight. The fact that GZ lied and/or schemed to lie about funds available for posting bond is highly relevant because it calls GZ's credibility into question - GZ's testimony is the only evidence that will speak to who started the fight, and whether or not GZ reasonably felt he was at risk of death or serious bodily harm. The jury will have to believe that GZ is telling the truth in order to find him not guilty - and the same holds true for any SYG motion, except it will be Judge Lester who will have to decide his credibility.

Maybe I didnt explain myself well...What I was trying to say was that the lies about the money and passport have no direct impact on the murder of TM. But lying about the passport and money have an impact on GZ's credibility which has an impact on the murder of TM. Quite the conumdrum isn't it?

FYI, I do believe it will impact the trial...credibility is everything.

Chickenbutt wrote:

ellejay wrote:http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-02/zimmerman-credibility/55346970/1
Zimmerman credibility may be issue in Martin case

The credibility of the neighborhood watch volunteer who fatally shot an unarmed black teenager could be an issue at trial after a judge said that George Zimmerman and his wife lied to the court about their finances to obtain a lower bond, legal experts say.

The questioning of Zimmerman's truthfulness by the judge on Friday could undermine his credibility if it is brought up at trial. It also may complicate how his defense presents him as a witness, said Orlando-area attorney Randy McClean, who is a former prosecutor.

Zimmerman's credibility would be important if O'Mara tries to get a judge without the jury to dismiss the charges based on the stand-your-ground law, said Orlando defense attorney David Hill.

"If he was in on something that was not truthfully revealed to the judge, when there is a 'stand your ground' hearing, of course you're going to second-guess him," Hill said.

Both McClean and Hill said O'Mara would be able to challenge the admissibility of the bond revocation at trial by questioning its relevance.

--more@link---

BBM

I was just discussing this with someone.....IMO, the lies have no relevance in the murder of TM, but it does go to GZ's credibility which in turn has relevance in the murder of TM. Am I making sense?

--total sense CB.

--the only person alive to tell the tale of what happened that night, is george.

--if the judge (alone, if there is a SYG hearing) or the jury (if there is a trial) is to believe him, then of course his credibility in general is a huge issue.

--if he was blatant enough to be in on the lies about the $$$$'s to the Court @ the bond hearing, what else has he lied about? if there are discrepancies in his stmts to LE (as we've heard) when was he telling the truth and when was he lying? can this guy ever be believed?

--if omara was relying heavily on george's testimony as a defense---that tactic just went *poof*.

--george must have been quite accustomed to always getting away w/ anything if he really was idiotic enough to discuss $$$'s w/ shellie on a phone call that begins "This call is being recorded..."..even if he did try his 007 move of speaking "in code".

--one thing im sure of---he is not 'enjoying' his last night of freedom, he'll be absolutely sweating it and dreading going back to jail.........bothers me not in the least.

Chickenbutt wrote:Maybe I didnt explain myself well...What I was trying to say was that the lies about the money and passport have no direct impact on the murder of TM. But lying about the passport and money have an impact on GZ's credibility which has an impact on the murder of TM. Quite the conumdrum isn't it?

FYI, I do believe it will impact the trial...credibility is everything.

Oohhhh...now I understand what you were saying...sorry, I not only have short term memory, I have crossed eyes too. LOL

I totally agree. I used to think they were just stupid and insensitive, but I think they are deliberately posturing as if there was nothing tragic here - hes a thug not a kid- and that Trayvon was more responsible than George.

Someone here quoted MOM of saying that Trayvon would have to also have to prove his credibility. Which leads me to believe they will try to paint him in an ugly way.

News flash for MOM - Trayvon cannot defend himself- your client wrongfully killed him. And even discussing Trayvons credibility makes me naseaus to think about.
Does anyone doubt he was unarmed and buying snacks? Sheesh.

CherokeeNative wrote:What truly annoys me is MOM's whining about how GZ is ONLY 28 years old and how his life is turned upside down. Yeah, well Trayvon's life is a little more than turned upside down, it's friggin nonexistent. Trayvon didn't get the benefit of being able to enjoy life to the ripe old age of 28 yrs. And since when is 28 years of age too young to know that you don't lie to the court? I am sure that GZ is agreeing wholeheartedly with MOM - he was never made to be held accountable for past indiscretions so he is probably wondering why he should be held accountable now? If he had a My Space Page, I would take wagers that he would be thanking Shelly for "not opening her mouth to get his ass pinched." Sorry for the rant.

[[Someone here quoted MOM of saying that Trayvon would have to also have to prove his credibility.]]

Obviously lawyers can be just as stupid as their clients.
I sure hope if I ever need a lawyer to defend me I can
find one who has brains and the ability to keep from
sticking his feet in his mouth.

I don't think that MOM will go after the character of Trayvon Martin. I think he will tread very lightly about him because to do so will only serve to inflame a jury against his client.

The fact is I can't think of any person in FLorida that hasn't formed some notion/opinion of this case.

I also think the passport hoopla is a non-issue. From the little I saw of the hearing, even Judge Lester was pretty dismissive of it.

The biggest problem is the money. MOM will have to spin like a top to make that go away.

This atty is beginning to remind me of the (clowns) that represented the other liar from FL.

Chickenbutt wrote:Maybe I didnt explain myself well...What I was trying to say was that the lies about the money and passport have no direct impact on the murder of TM. But lying about the passport and money have an impact on GZ's credibility which has an impact on the murder of TM. Quite the conumdrum isn't it?

FYI, I do believe it will impact the trial...credibility is everything.

Well the context in which all of this arose is the Bond Hearing.
And I suspect that Lester will squarely keep the focus on this context.

The issue of the bond hearing is for the Court to decide how much GZ had to pay for bond once the Court had heard arguments, balanced all factors, and decided that he was eligible for bond.

GZ's eligibility for bond is not what is being questioned.
The Prosecution can persist in a request for Revocation but I expect it will be denied.
At the first Bond Hearing, GZ sought a request for lower bond based on his financial means.
The Court apparently based the Bond amount upon the material fact of his report of his finances, as per GZs request?
At the first Bond Hearing, GZ, and his wife, did not disclose money he had access to at the time he was asked to answer about his financial means.
GZ made a contract with the Court based on what he said he was able to afford.
It turns out that the grounds by which that agreement was made were not in fact as they were represented at that time, and thus the contract is considered null at the moment, until GZ can answer for himself, and enter into the process of brokering a new agreement.

GZ did however relinquish control of that money to his lawyer, after the bond hearing. That did not show intent to conceal the money. He gave the money over to MOM without acknowledging its existence when he should have, in a timely manner his awareness of his access to it.
The State would have a difficult time proving intent to never disclose, which is different than not disclosing at the moment when asked.

On the flip side, the Prosecution, as Lester stated, had been sitting on knowledge of this for some time.
Lester seemed to just be waiting for this to be brought forward, or not.
I am not clear as to why this is an issue now.
It seems like an issue immediately following the Bond Hearing, while GZ was still in custody.

I suspect that Lester will make this more of an issue of admonishment for being personally responsible for responding to Court Requests and Orders in a timely manner than about lying, and a serious warning about passively exploiting the grey areas.
(This being said without knowing what will transpire with GZs testimony.)

Future behavior along these lines in other contexts could constitute being held in contempt of court, he needs to get it together.

Without being able to prove the intent to persist in concealing the money from the Court, I would think that it would be difficult to win an argument that would allow the State to refer to the content of this hearing in the murder trial, unless GZ says some pretty incriminating things.

Lester still has to ensure a fair trail and jury pool.
I do not see at this early stage, him naming this as an issue of deliberately deceiving the Court, but more of irresponsibility by not presenting the facts as they were at a specific point in time.

Okay, my hands are between my legs and my arms are over my head.
I am ready for the attack.

Tamta wrote:

Chickenbutt wrote:Maybe I didnt explain myself well...What I was trying to say was that the lies about the money and passport have no direct impact on the murder of TM. But lying about the passport and money have an impact on GZ's credibility which has an impact on the murder of TM. Quite the conumdrum isn't it?

FYI, I do believe it will impact the trial...credibility is everything.

Well the context in which all of this arose is the Bond Hearing.
And I suspect that Lester will squarely keep the focus on this context.

The issue of the bond hearing is for the Court to decide how much GZ had to pay for bond once the Court had heard arguments, balanced all factors, and decided that he was eligible for bond.

GZ's eligibility for bond is not what is being questioned.
The Prosecution can persist in a request for Revocation but I expect it will be denied.
At the first Bond Hearing, GZ sought a request for lower bond based on his financial means.
The Court apparently based the Bond amount upon the material fact of his report of his finances, as per GZs request?
At the first Bond Hearing, GZ, and his wife, did not disclose money he had access to at the time he was asked to answer about his financial means.
GZ made a contract with the Court based on what he said he was able to afford.
It turns out that the grounds by which that agreement was made were not in fact as they were represented at that time, and thus the contract is considered null at the moment, until GZ can answer for himself, and enter into the process of brokering a new agreement.

GZ did however relinquish control of that money to his lawyer, after the bond hearing. That did not show intent to conceal the money. He gave the money over to MOM without acknowledging its existence when he should have, in a timely manner his awareness of his access to it.
The State would have a difficult time proving intent to never disclose, which is different than not disclosing at the moment when asked.

On the flip side, the Prosecution, as Lester stated, had been sitting on knowledge of this for some time.
Lester seemed to just be waiting for this to be brought forward, or not.
I am not clear as to why this is an issue now.

It seems like an issue immediately following the Bond Hearing, while GZ was still in custody.[/b]I suspect that Lester will make this more of an issue of admonishment for being personally responsible for responding to Court Requests and Orders in a timely manner than about lying, and a serious warning about passively exploiting the grey areas.
(This being said without knowing what will transpire with GZs testimony.)

Future behavior along these lines in other contexts could constitute being held in contempt of court, he needs to get it together.

Without being able to prove the intent to persist in concealing the money from the Court, I would think that it would be difficult to win an argument that would allow the State to refer to the content of this hearing in the murder trial, unless GZ says some pretty incriminating things.

Lester still has to ensure a fair trail and jury pool.
I do not see at this early stage, him naming this as an issue of deliberately deceiving the Court, but more of irresponsibility by not presenting the facts as they were at a specific point in time.

Okay, my hands are between my legs and my arms are over my head.
I am ready for the attack.

BBM:
No attack by me. But I would like to discuss this with you to understand what I am missing or failing to understand. First, you state that the Court appeared to acknowledge that DLR had been sitting on this information for some time. Actually, this was the 2nd motion of the prosecutor regarding the funds in the PayPal account and GZ's failure to inform the court of the funds - the first was when MOM announced to the court the existence of the PayPal account and his new awareness that there were funds in the account. At that time, Judge Lester indicated that before he could rule, he needed to see more documentation showing when the Defendant became aware of the funds, etc. MOM indicated that he would get this information IIRC. So, I don't understand how you come up with this conclusion.

Also, I don't believe the issue is whether GZ had any "intent to persist in concealing the money from the Court" but that GZ schemed to mislead the Court through his wife's testimony, and knowingly allowed his wife and his attorney to make false representations to the Court. It is the idea that he engaged in dishonest conduct, obstructed the discovery process, abused the judicial process, and/or otherwise sought to perpetrate a fraud on the court. And, indeed, that was the Court's ruling:

"They were well aware of the money that was available, well aware of the amounts that were in controversy, here as far as large amounts. Mr. Zimmerman cannot sit back as I use again the euphemism a potted palm and let his wife testify falsely before the court when he knew well in advance of the hearing the amounts of money in controversy. Nor can he allow his attorney stand up to make misrepresentations, not by your fault whatsoever Mr. O'Mara, you were completely candid and honest with the court as you have always been. Uh, and he can't sit back and obtain the benefits of a lower bond or circumstances based upon those material falsehoods and that's what they were. So at this time I revoke his bond and place him without bond status.

Find that good cause exists based upon the material rep - misrepresentations that the court relied upon. Order him to surrender himself within 48 hours to the Sheriff of Seminole County if he wants to explain himself subsequent to that you may reset this for a bond hearing to give him an opportunity to explain to the court what happened and at this time it would be important for him to testify about what transpired."

So, unless the Court reverses that ruling and makes a different finding should MOM file another motion to reset bond, GZ and his wife have been found to have been deceitful to the Court. Evidence showing a Defendant's propensity to lie while under oath would be highly relevant IMO at trial as it goes to GZ's credibility as I have elaborated on up thread.

Tamta wrote:

Chickenbutt wrote:Maybe I didnt explain myself well...What I was trying to say was that the lies about the money and passport have no direct impact on the murder of TM. But lying about the passport and money have an impact on GZ's credibility which has an impact on the murder of TM. Quite the conumdrum isn't it?

FYI, I do believe it will impact the trial...credibility is everything.

Well the context in which all of this arose is the Bond Hearing.
And I suspect that Lester will squarely keep the focus on this context.

The issue of the bond hearing is for the Court to decide how much GZ had to pay for bond once the Court had heard arguments, balanced all factors, and decided that he was eligible for bond.

GZ's eligibility for bond is not what is being questioned.
The Prosecution can persist in a request for Revocation but I expect it will be denied.
At the first Bond Hearing, GZ sought a request for lower bond based on his financial means.
The Court apparently based the Bond amount upon the material fact of his report of his finances, as per GZs request?
At the first Bond Hearing, GZ, and his wife, did not disclose money he had access to at the time he was asked to answer about his financial means.
GZ made a contract with the Court based on what he said he was able to afford.
It turns out that the grounds by which that agreement was made were not in fact as they were represented at that time, and thus the contract is considered null at the moment, until GZ can answer for himself, and enter into the process of brokering a new agreement.

GZ did however relinquish control of that money to his lawyer, after the bond hearing. That did not show intent to conceal the money. He gave the money over to MOM without acknowledging its existence when he should have, in a timely manner his awareness of his access to it.
The State would have a difficult time proving intent to never disclose, which is different than not disclosing at the moment when asked.

On the flip side, the Prosecution, as Lester stated, had been sitting on knowledge of this for some time.
Lester seemed to just be waiting for this to be brought forward, or not.
I am not clear as to why this is an issue now.
It seems like an issue immediately following the Bond Hearing, while GZ was still in custody.

I suspect that Lester will make this more of an issue of admonishment for being personally responsible for responding to Court Requests and Orders in a timely manner than about lying, and a serious warning about passively exploiting the grey areas.
(This being said without knowing what will transpire with GZs testimony.)

Future behavior along these lines in other contexts could constitute being held in contempt of court, he needs to get it together.

Without being able to prove the intent to persist in concealing the money from the Court, I would think that it would be difficult to win an argument that would allow the State to refer to the content of this hearing in the murder trial, unless GZ says some pretty incriminating things.

Lester still has to ensure a fair trail and jury pool.
I do not see at this early stage, him naming this as an issue of deliberately deceiving the Court, but more of irresponsibility by not presenting the facts as they were at a specific point in time.

Okay, my hands are between my legs and my arms are over my head.I am ready for the attack.

WOW! WTH kind of contortionist are you??? **Film at 11** LOL!

Actually, That was a very well thought out peice.

Frankly, I do think that GZ's credibility has been damaged.

There is no doubt that there will be another hearing for a rebonding and I think that he will be granted bail. I don't think it will be set high enough to wipe out that fund, however. It depends on how he handles his explanation. IMO, in one of those conversatons he didn't seem willing to use the fund at all for bail purposes.

What I would really like to see/hear are the entire jail house phone conversations rather than just the items listed that the SAO did to make their case on the Motion to Revoke. I am hoping that those come forth in the next DocDump or the one after.


We have seen over and over that there is usually more to one side than that side is willing to admit.



On both sides.

--friday june 1st/2012 hearing.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Video-Zimmerman-evidence-hearing/-/1637132/14436208/-/i315lcz/-/index.html
Video: Zimmerman evidence hearing 1:06:14

ellejay wrote:--friday june 1st/2012 hearing.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Video-Zimmerman-evidence-hearing/-/1637132/14436208/-/i315lcz/-/index.html
Video: Zimmerman evidence hearing 1:06:14

Thanks Ellejay - I've tucked it away into my Disney vault. LOL

CherokeeNative wrote:

ellejay wrote:--friday june 1st/2012 hearing.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Video-Zimmerman-evidence-hearing/-/1637132/14436208/-/i315lcz/-/index.html
Video: Zimmerman evidence hearing 1:06:14

Thanks Ellejay - I've tucked it away into my Disney vault. LOL

--excellent 'Cher', i'm on a new computer (love it!) as of last night, so my personal vault is pretty empty right now, i know we can always rely on you for docs and more!

--i hadn't watched the friday hearing----omara was clearly shocked!! when bond was revoked.his explanation re: the $$$ issue begins at approx 54:30, it's evident that he thought ( as he stated in his 'correspondence to the Court' as he says ) that once judgeL looked at the totality of 'who georgeZ really is' ---cooperated w/ LE/did all that they asked of him, presented himself respectfully to the Court, wears his GPS, has had no bond violations....that judgeL would go along w/ his "it was an innocent misunderstanding".

--'KZ' definitely called his expression correctly, "sucking his lips down his throat", when he heard judgeL rule that bond was revoked and george was to turn himself in in 48 hours. it also looks like he was drained of a few shades of his florida tan..

ellejay wrote:

CherokeeNative wrote:

ellejay wrote:--friday june 1st/2012 hearing.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Video-Zimmerman-evidence-hearing/-/1637132/14436208/-/i315lcz/-/index.html
Video: Zimmerman evidence hearing 1:06:14

Thanks Ellejay - I've tucked it away into my Disney vault. LOL

--excellent 'Cher', i'm on a new computer (love it!) as of last night, so my personal vault is pretty empty right now, i know we can always rely on you for docs and more!

--i hadn't watched the friday hearing----omara was clearly shocked!! when bond was revoked.his explanation re: the $$$ issue begins at approx 54:30, it's evident that he thought ( as he stated in his 'correspondence to the Court' as he says ) that once judgeL looked at the totality of 'who georgeZ really is' ---cooperated w/ LE/did all that they asked of him, presented himself respectfully to the Court, wears his GPS, has had no bond violations....that judgeL would go along w/ his "it was an innocent misunderstanding".

--'KZ' definitely called his expression correctly, "sucking his lips down his throat", when he heard judgeL rule that bond was revoked and george was to turn himself in in 48 hours. it also looks like he was drained of a few shades of his florida tan..

I too thank you ellejay, I was at a graduation and missed it. O'Mara sure had that surprised look on his face at the end.

Count down time for Georgie. I like when the judge said that "he would advise Zimmerman to testify to correct this matter". I took that up as saying, if Georgie doesn't testify he will not receive another bond.

Gee, I wonder whats taking Georgie so long to turn himself in. Maybe he can't get a flight? Maybe he's screaming for someone to help him? Could he be in Peru and can't find his other passport? Maybe Shellie is is holding him hostage because of the trouble he got her into?

Gizmo711 wrote:Gee, I wonder whats taking Georgie so long to turn himself in. Maybe he can't get a flight? Maybe he's screaming for someone to help him? Could he be in Peru and can't find his other passport? Maybe Shellie is is holding him hostage because of the trouble he got her into?

You are funny!

May I add:

Freckles wrote:

Gizmo711 wrote:Gee, I wonder whats taking Georgie so long to turn himself in. Maybe he can't get a flight? Maybe he's screaming for someone to help him? Could he be in Peru and can't find his other passport? Maybe Shellie is is holding him hostage because of the trouble he got her into?

You are funny!

May I add:

If he shows up with a broken nose we will know for sure. The newsman said that he may have altered his appearance some. (or maybe Shellie had a little to do with it)

So, has he made to the jail yet?
Bet altering his appearance wouldn't
make him try to slide by cross dressed,
although if I wanted to fool ppl I would
certainly dress like a guy.