Michele MacNeill Found Deceased 4/11/07, Martin Macneill Charged With Murder

olivier57 wrote:Hi everybody !  I hope I will get enough  time to follow this trial, but time zones aren't good on my side

Olivier

olivier57 wrote:Hi everybody !  I hope I will get enough  time to follow this trial, but time zones aren't good on my side

Olivier

Freckles wrote:TX for the updates and the vids, AD!

Nan11 wrote:

olivier57 wrote:Hi everybody !  I hope I will get enough  time to follow this trial, but time zones aren't good on my side

Olivier

Hi, Oliver57!  

I know what you mean--the time zone thing can be a problem.  So far they have started pretty prompt at 8:30 am Mountain time, and ended around 3:00 pm Mountain time.

They have a one hour noon break as close to 12:00 pm as they can manage, and there is no court on Mondays.

Hope this helps a little.

• she appeared to be dead when she arrived; no heartbeat, not breathing
  
• Dr. observed lividity in buttocks, back
  
• she arrived at hospital at 12:25 p.m.
  
• poorly profused skin (from no blood flow?)
  
• water is not a breathing obstruction
  
• rising chest should be seen if breaths are administered correctly
  
• 2-2.5 inches of compression required for proper compression
  
• (so he's indirectly saying MM lied to 911 when he said he was doing CPR will she was still in tub - my comment)
  
• breaths should be done first in a drowning victim to get oxygen to the body
  
• Dr. thought initially she had some sort of blood clot
  
• Dr. couldn't determine COD; called ME/Sheriff
  
  
• MM offered him $10K to not quit CPR; odd, because as a Dr., he should have known she was dead
  
• MM said he thought she had fallen in tub
  
• MM said he pulled her from the tub and started CPR
  
• MM said he was away from her for 1-2 hours
  

• precordial thump can be administered - pound on central part of sternum to try to get heart going
  
• She was intubated (tracheal tube) when she got to the ER
  
• Dr. can't say at what time lividity was noticed
  
• her sugar level was high, but Dr. said EMTs had administered glucose, so not unusual
  
• incisions were breaking/splitting open
  
• Dr. believes she was dead at 12:25 when she arrived at hospital
  
• Dr. did not see rigor
  
• EMTs had administered meds through IV
  
• Dr. even tried to warm her body to revive her (warming fluids via IV, and some sort of body-hugging device)
  

• No evidence that she had fallen into tub
  
• boby temp could have been affected if she had been in warm water
  

• Skin color was poor; due to lack of circulation
  
• Ashen, gray
  
• She was cool to the touch
  
• MM was upset/agitated; sharp movements; very verbal
  
• Upset: why his wife had surgery; "I told her not to do this" (repeated a few times)
  

• liability prevention
  
• USDC - houses patients with mental health diagnoses that prevent them from living elsewhere
  
• Ran Safety Fair; was there all day
  

Freckles wrote:So if the paramedics cut off the clothing how is it the neighbors reported she was unclothed on the lower torso?

olivier57 wrote:Hi everyone,

Could a link to this trial be added in Forum/Current trials ? Thanks,

Olivier

CuriousPortlander wrote:

olivier57 wrote:Hi everyone,

Could a link to this trial be added in Forum/Current trials ? Thanks,

Olivier

Hi, Olivier    

You may want to PM an Admin, as I think they have to make that change, and they may not see this post.

• She was in charge of Safety Fair
  
• Safety Fair had been rescheduled for Dr. MacNeill's benefit
  
• Award ceremony was scheduled for 11:45
  
• received a phone call at 8 a.m. from Josette Harding about moving time of awards ceremony due to MacNeill's availability; she was frustrated by that because it had been carefully planned and affected other people's availability
  
• prepared to have ceremony at any moment
  
• received a 2nd call around 9:30; advised not to reschedule (from Josette); go ahead as planned; still based on MM's availability
  
• third call from Karen Clark (Josette's boss?) between 10:40 and 10:50; said do the ceremony right now; MM would be there for a very brief time and she had to do it immediately
  
• ceremony took place around 11 a.m.; MM was there; arrived shortly after 11; he received award
  
• After award, noticed he stayed and talked to vendor (though odd because she had to rush to have it but he hung out afterwards); he stayed for about 10-15 mins.
  
• She did not see him before award ceremony
  

• she doesn't recall most of what defense attorney asks; shuts down line of questioning
  
• reviewing her testimony
  
• MM was responsible for providing personnel to man the medical services booth/table
  
• MM dropped by briefly at fair; except first year of fair; he spent about an hour there that first year
  
• No one in his dept. did anything without his direction
  

• her testimony was not influenced by anyone else
  

olivier57 wrote:Thanks to all, this trial is more difficult to follow for me but with your help  , it's fine !

• She's seen MacNeill at work at various times; conversed
  
• Ran into Martin in hallway on April 11 on his way to safety fair
  
• seemed hurried; told her he was in a hurry to get over there; she didn't understand that because the fair went until 3
  
• He went out double-doors towards Heather building
  
• heard Michele had died around 1 p.m. (that day)
  
• The Monday after the funeral she ran into him; said I'm sorry for his wife's passing
  
• He said everything will be fine; he seemed happy
  

• he sometimes wore his white lab coat; not often
  
• had it on that day (April 11)
  

• MM was hired as physician (director of medical) in 2000
  
• Worked with him from 2000-2007
  
• MM told him MM had a problem with his nervous system, and cancer in his big toe
  
• toe cancer discussion was roughly 5 months or less before April, 2007
  
• MM told him he went to a Mayo clinic outside of Utah for treatment
  
• witness was in/out of safety fair; conference room adjacent to his office
  
• On April 11, he was coming out of his office; MM was coming into building; MM told him he needed his picture taken; he was adamant about it
  
• His being adamant was different than normal; he seemed determined
  
• Heard about wife's death later that day
  
• Interacted with MM later that same week; back to work; normal
  

• He told investigator that he had seen MM's toe; and it was swollen
  
• MM never said anything was terminal
  
• witness directed MM to conference room area for picture
  

• met Michele maybe once
  
• attended funeral
  
• looked at toe because MM went to his office and showed it to him; never asked to see it; MM volunteered that
  

• doesn't remember what day he came back to work (same week or next week)
  

• knows MM as Med. Director; witness was Dir. of Nursing at the time
  
• interacted with MM on daily basis; good working relationship
  
• April 11; had weekly meeting which was supplanted by health fair that day
  
• MM was at the fair
  
• witness was there between 9 and 9:15; certain he saw MM at that time
  
• heard by 1-2 that day that Michele had died
  
• attended funeral
  
• interacted with MM that following Monday; business as normal; surprised to see him that soon; MM said better to get back to work
  
• mentioned in the past that MM was looking for housing for nursing friend (meaning Gypsy)
  

• started working at USDC in 2001 or 2 (I missed that, sorry)
  
• got to know MM fairly well
  
• quite close with MM
  
• saw MM's big toe; not too much before death of wife
  
• some condition related to MS that affected his toe; using a cane
  
• almost a year before Michele died
  
• MM never said he had cancer
  
• MM wasn't a big attender at work functions
  
• told someone in another interview he saw MM at fair around 10
  
• was asked by HR about MM's character; wrote letter about it (doesn't remember content)
  
• letter said that MM's physical and mental condition were deteriorating since wife's death
  
• other observations indicating MM was depressed
  

• MM said he had several surgeries; someone else confirmed he had done surgery on MM's toe
  
• Has since realized telling Det. he saw MM at 10 was incorrect
  

• big toe looked like a potato
  

• letter was written to HR dept
  

• dated frequently; took trips with the family; fairly close with the rest of the family
  
• She was at school on April 11
  
• got lots of calls/VM/messages while in class; called DM; told her Michele was dead
  
• left campus and went to MM's house
  
• Damian and Martin were there, then Alexis, then Rachel (and younger girls)
  
• arrived in early afternoon (around 1-2)
  
• MM and DM were sitting in living room; she approached; hugged both
  
• Asked what she could do
  
• MM said let's go to master bedroom
  
• MM asked her to count pills in Michele's med bottles (5-10 bottles)
  
• She and DM did that in front of MM; MM was counting, DM was writing info down; she watched
  
• MM said he wanted to know how she died; she wasn't taking her meds (that's a contradiction); wanted to see if any pills were missing
  
• MM repeated several times that she wasn't taking her pills
  
• white pills and blue pills that she recalls; more than two kinds of pills
  
• doesn't know what happened to that list
  
• MM seemed frustrated; "I don't want to do this anymore"; asked her to flush the pills down the toilet
  
• She knew MM was both a doctor and a lawyer; never heard about him practicing law
  
• She did flush them; it seemed strange to her; she complied because he asked her to, and he had just lost his wife and she wanted to help
  
• took one flush to flush them all
  
• She believes she threw the bottles away in the garbage
  
• Alexis hadn't gotten there yet; she was on her way from Las Vegas
  
• MM asked her to organize the master bedroom; didn't throw anything away; tidied papers
  
• hospital bed looked clean and made; didn't look like anyone had been in it lately
  
• MM didn't want to see it, so MM arranged to have it removed shortly thereafter; a couple of days after her death
  
• MM said he found M in bathtub; blood "everywhere"
  
• MM suspected Michele had fallen and hit her head on bathtub (to explain blood)
  
• she did not see any blood in bathroom that afternoon
  
• saw wet carpet and some blood stains on carpet; she was barefoot so that's how she noticed wetness
  
• blood spot was roughly the size of a half-dollar
  
• didn't notice any clothing
  
• saw a lot of contention between MM and Alexis (attorneys ask to approach judge)
  
  
• Jillian was the source of the discourse
  
• Met Jillian a few weeks to a month after death
  
• They were interviewing a nanny that MM asked them to interview (Damian, Vanessa (daughter))
  
• Jillian was only applicant; only time they met
  
• MM decided to hire her;  asked witness to participate because she was very close to Damian
  
• Alexis and Rachel were not part of the interview process
  
• Knew of tension between Jillian and Alexis and Rachel; she advised him not to hire Jillian due to his kids; he said he didn't want his kids controlling his life
  
• couple of months later found out they were having an intimate relationship
  
• went to lunch a few weeks after hired as nanny; she, Damian, MM and Jillian
  
• she saw Jillian eat food off MM's plate; thought odd for employer/employee relationship
  
• MM wanted pills destroyed because he couldn't bear to look at them
  
• She and DM broke up in Feb. 2008
  
• Learned later that Jillian was Gypsy
  
• bloodstain was in bedroom; identifies it in picture; carpet didn't look like that later
  

• Went to MM's house very often; house was usually very clean
  
• Stayed at MM's on April 11 until evening
  
• MM said he picked up Ada from school
  
• MM said she wasn't wearing pants; she thought that was odd
  
• MM said that she may have fallen in bathtub and hit head; other was med/pill concern due to high blood pressure or high cholesterol
  
• MM was rambling; he wanted to see which pills she had and hadn't taken
  
• Alexis was not on the phone or present when Jillian being interviewed
  
• She was aware of MM's foot problems; sometimes in so much pain he went to his room; was told he was going to doctor for it; doesn't know if he actually went
  

• MM never said anything about cops coming to the door
  

• Did MM tell you how/if he advertised for nanny? No
  
• Did she know of application process for nanny?  No
  
• Did she see blood on carpet or tile?  Carpet
  

• Bathroom was clean; no blood
  

ishi wrote:CP your notes are wonderful!! Thank you so much!

• Asked to look at case in July 2008 by Jeff Robinson
  
• Made contact with Alexis
  
• Started collecting info
  
• Knows Ada; daughter of Vanessa; adopted by the MacNeills (so Ada is not Martin's daughter)
  
• Investigator Patty Johnson interviewed Ada roughly Aug/Sept. of 2008
  
• Ada's the one that discovered her mother in the tub
  
• Interview set up through Alexis; Alexis was a mother figure for Ada
  
• He did not personally interview Ada; doesn't think Robinson did either
  
• After first interview with Ada, things came to light that they were interested in
  
• They were hoping they'd get more info from Ada than her original interview
  
• He asked Alexis to follow up with questions for Ada for confirmation/corroboration
  
• Never informed Alexis what specific info he was looking for
  
• Asked for info on what she had seen at the scene; she must have been rather close to the tub to see her mother's body
  
• Never said "this is what we need Ada to say"
  

• He did share most, but not all, of his theories with Alexis, but those theories changed on a weekly basis
  
• He emailed an interview to Alexis (Ada's?) to get Alexis' comments on it
  
• Prior to interview at justice center, he spoke to attorneys about interviewing her
  
• Spoke with Patty Johnson about that interview; discussed where interview would occur
  
• Attorney showed witness an email from Rachel in July 2008
  
• In the email, Rachel shares info about a discussion with Ada; email said MM had time to rearrange her body
  
• Ada described what her mom was wearing (including pants); Alexis added "I think she means her running suit"
  
• Judge asked to see email; email accepted into evidence
  
• reviewed another email from Sept. 2008; email says Alexis is afraid to question her further without help
  
• email from Patty Johnson from Sept. 2008; Mary O'Brien (attorney) told Patty adamantly that Ada be interviewed at Justice center (via professional)
  
• another email from Alexis (Feb. 26, 2009)
  
• in discovery, defense only received emails sent to this witness, but not what he sent out
  
• another email from Alexis; she talked to Ada several times, and Ada keeps saying the same thing
  
• discussing interview (Alexis, Linda, Jeff) about the case including Ada's testimony
  
• Alexis presented drawing about how MM found his wife and discussed what Ada had seen in relationship to that
  
• Alexis reported that MM said he found Michele with head towards faucet; Alexis said that Ada said Michele's head was at opposite end of tub (feet at faucet); witness said another witness (Daniels) said the opposite
  
• Defense attorney making big deal about this witness telling Alexis what other witnesses had said
  
• another email; Robinson discussing how much water Ada saw in the tub; Ada reported about 1/4 full
  

• Judge asked witness how many times he asked Alexis to follow up with Ada; possibly 2 times; thinks one was unsolicited (volunteered by Rachel); maybe a couple of times
  
• What topics were being followed up on - what she saw when she first came into bathroom, what she was told, and demeanor of MM
  

• established relationship with Alexis as a witness in the case
  
• never interviewed Ada
  
• he asked Alexis to follow up with Ada as he reviewed the case and questions came up
  
• questions for Ada were relative to where Michele was in tub; and level of water; he asked for a diagram of such
  
• Never directed Alexis as to what specific facts he wanted to get from Ada
  
• Discussed with Alexis the progress of the case
  

• witness doesn't disagree with anything Whitney just testified to
  
• reviewing another email where witness asked Alexis to get diagram from Ada
  
• email also asked to get water level from Ada
  
• discussing multiple emails where witness was asking Alexis to follow up with Ada about which drain Michele's hair was stuck in; the lower or the upper
  
• emails being discussed are regarding answers he was still waiting on (water level)
  
• Judge asked if email contains new info he didn't ask for; yes
  
• Contained new details he hadn't heard before
  
• Alexis told witness she was working on civil case re:  MM's house; Alexis said she was afraid her father would win that case; asked witness to write a letter
  
• subsequent email where witness discussed case with Alexis
  
• email from witness to Whitney about concern over conflicting answers
  
• admits that child witnesses are better off being interviewed by professionals
  

• investigation reopened in Jan. 2008
  
• Doug assigned in July 2008; that's when things got rolling
  
• Alexis wasn't originally "point" person; eventually became point person, as well as Linda Cluff (Michele's sister)
  
• Alexis and Linda were victim representatives in this case; were kept updated on the case; routine procedure
  
• Never suggested or fed her an answer that he needed; just asked simple questions
  
• Theories were changing over time, depending on who they talked to; once witness got involved, he followed the evidence and collected info
  

• In Sept. 2009, witness released certain info to media (through prosecutor)
  
• Deseret News articles published with info released
  
• Attorney bringing up Nancy Grace, 20/20; witness participated in 20/20 interview
  
• witness did not follow the media
  
• someone (judge?  prosecutor?) said he doubted a 10-yr. old was reading the Deseret News
  

• witness does not know what Ada saw in media; Alexis said she was keeping Ada from seeing media
  
• purpose of releasing info was to get new leads/info
  

• Ada is Vanessa's daughter; MacNeills adopted her shortly thereafter
  
• Alexis has been Ada's legal guardian for about 7 years; won custody about 7 months after mother's death (summer 2007)
  
• living in Henderson, Nevada when she got custody
  
• Ada is 12 now; 6 when Michele died
  
• Ada gave interview at justice center sometime in 2008 (Sept); so she was 7 when first interviewed
  
• Alexis talked to Ada about what she observed; Ada would bring things up over time; sometimes responded with questions to Ada; how did you find Mom?  What happened that day?
  
• Discussing leading questions (which contain answer in question) vs. open-ended; she asked Ada very general open-ended questions; most of it was Alexis just listening to Ada when Ada would bring it up
  
• Whitney and Robinson came to her with some questions about Ada's observations
  
• She recalls them asking how close Ada got to the tub; that's how she worded it to Ada
  
• She recalls being asked to follow up on how much water was in tub; that's how she worded it again
  
• Media reports started around 2009 (when investigation was changing); newspaper interviews (Deseret News, Daily Herald; local news), and then TV interviews; local TV news stations, ABC (20/20), Nancy Grace; various news outlets throughout the years
  
• When 20/20 was broadcast, she was living in Utah (with Ada)
  
• Alexis didn't allow Ada to be interviewed or to watch any news/media; didn't want her to be tainted; knew she'd be a potential witness; wanted to protect Ada from media
  
• She doesn't remember ever expressing to Ada what Alexis believed (that dad killed mom), but she believes Ada knows that now; not sure; ask Ada
  
• Alexis is not aware of what conversations other sisters have had with Ada
  
• In Jan. 2011, she and Linda Cluff had interview with investigators; she recalls telling investigators what Ada had told her about what she observed that day
  
• She believes she reported that Michele was facing the opposite direction (feet at faucet)
  
• She was later asked by investigators to get diagram from Ada
  
• Judge asking for clarification on how Alexis asked for diagram
  
• She was emailed a form to fill out; Alexis drew picture of tub; Ada drew how mom was laying in tub; took 5-10 minutes
  
• Judge asking what questions she asked Ada during that time
  
• Ada was saying other things (like describing the water, mom's eyes were open); she said a few things that Alexis drew on diagram
  
• Showing diagram to Alexis; Alexis wrote down what Ada said on that diagram
  
• Alexis never prepared or coached Ada on what she should say; just asked her what she remembered
  
• Has anyone else discussed this with Ada; only MM
  

• Discussing preliminary hearing testimony where she said she doesn't remember specific conversations with Ada
  
• She remembers Ada bringing up info about mom's death
  
• Alexis was present when Ada was interviewed but wasn't allowed to watch; never received a transcript of that interview
  
• After that interview, she had multiple conversations with Ada; asked to follow up with Ada
  
• attorney showing Alexis an email where investigator asked her to follow up
  
• email said she had talked with Ada several times and this is what she kept saying
  
• detectives have shared info and documents with her over the years, including some summaries of their investigations; read and responded with her comments (things they got right and wrong)
  
• attorney reviewing document stating which direction Michele's body was facing; Alexis said her dad had flipped the body due to Ada having found her with her feet at the faucet
  
• doc says Daniels said her head was at faucet
  
• Alexis said Ada saw her before the Daniels
  
• Alexis said that could have given time for MM to flip the body
  
• Ada said her head was at the other end (feet at faucet)
  
• In the doc, Alexis said she hadn't asked Ada how close she got to the tub; Alexis now says she thinks she mispoke
  

• she had worked a long shift before interview with detectives; was tired
  
• Ada described laying on back; eyes open, head at faucet; Alexis misunderstood from beginning and thought Ada had said her feet were by faucet
  

• for clarification on questioning Ada; asked open-ended questions; what did you do when you got home; what did you see?
  
• 5-10 mins. of discussion
  

• investigators never asked for specific answers
  

• lives in Salt Lake City, Utah
  
• last saw Michele Easter, 2007
  
• Rachel is the oldest; children in order are:  Rachel, Vanessa, Alexis, Damian, and the 4 younger adopted ones
  
• Noel, Elle, Giselle, Sabrina adopted; Ada is also adopted by MacNeills (biological niece)
  
• Growing up, she was very close with her dad; he was her best friend
  
• Family was close; closer to her father than her mother growing up
  
• Left home at 16 to go to BYU
  
• MacNeills were in the home about 1 year before Michele died
  
• Rachel never lived in that home in Pleasant Grove
  
• April 11 - she was at work (had left cell phone at home); when she got home, saw missed calls from her dad; jumped in her car and called her dad
  
• MM left her a voicemail; "Rachel, quick get to the hospital, it's your mother"
  
• She called him and asked what's happening
  
• He said "Rachel, come home"; she said what's happening; he repeated "come home" and then hung up on her
  
  
• Rachel immediately went right to Pleasant Grove home
  
• observed neighbors in the kitchen; right away went to look for her father; wanted to make sure he was OK
  
• he was sitting on couch in her parent's room; Alexis was there
  
• she told him she couldn't comprehend
  
• MM wanted to tell her what had happened; knowing Michele had died, she didn't want to hear; MM was adamant about describing and showing what happened
  
• She said she didn't want to know; he insisted; she stood back and watched and listened (in the master bedroom)
  
• He went into the bathroom right off the bedroom; she stood in the doorway
  
• MM showed step-by-step how he found her mother; talked about Ada first finding her mother; "Ada was ruined"; and then walked through where he found her mother; Alexis was also present
  
• Rachel is very emotional; asked for a few moments break (stretch break for jury)
  
  
• Rachel stayed at the home that night
  
• MM told her that evening in the bedroom that he was very concerned with getting an autopsy done right away; kept repeating that; she asked why?  He said he was concerned there would be a police investigation and he didn't want anyone to think he had murdered her mother; she said why would anyone think that; she doesn't remember his response
  
• That day, she found her mother's belongings (stuffed animals, hospital bed, towels, sheets, a running suit, garments) discarded in the garage; it was all wet and bloody (she whispered that; I hope the jury heard that); all thrown in garage
  
• She took the garments, a dark blue running suit, and took them to her father
  
• He said "how dare you show me those things; get rid of it!"
  
• She washed them, put them in a bag and kept them, and eventually turned them over to investigators
  
  
• She was a dental assistant; when her mom died, she quit her job because her father said they needed to get a nanny, and it didn't make sense to her, so she quit to take care of the younger kids
  
• He told her "don't you dare do that" (about quitting her job); you need to go on with your life; and he'd find someone to take care of the children
  
• She continued to live in SLC, but she occasionally stayed at MacNeill's home after death
  
• MM continued to talk about getting Nanny
  
• A few days after death, MM was adamant to go to the temple to pray about getting a nanny
  
• They went to the temple on the Tuesday after the funeral (which was on Saturday)
  
• MM went to work and met her at the temple (Alexis drove on her own)
  
• She expected to spend time speaking with her father; they went their separate ways instead and he said to meet outside
  
• She couldn't find him in the temple; looked everywhere; walked outside and got in her car to look for him; she drove to see if she could find his car; drove by his work; didn't see his car there
  
• One of them called the other; he was very upset; said "where are you? We were supposed to meet outside"
  
• She went back; he was very upset; she apologized; he was on bench and approached him; she sat down; a woman walked up right away from the parking area; she approached them and said "I'm so sorry for your loss; I was at the funeral"; dad said "thank you; what's your name?"  Jillian.  Dad said he had to excuse himself to go to restroom.
  
• Jillian kept talking to her about nursing school; Alexis said her mom had just died and couldn't talk, but Jillian kept talking
  
• MM came back; asked again what her name was; asked for her phone number; typed it into his cell phone
  
• MM said "she seems really nice; what's her name again?"  "Maybe we should call her and go to lunch?"  She said I thought we were here to talk about a nanny; he yelled at her
  
• Identified a picture of Jillian "Gypsy" Willis; (she can't even look at it; said ugh twice and burst into tears)
  
  
• thought she had seen Jillian at the funeral and at USDC
  
• Next saw Jillian the day MM had her move in as the nanny; he was putting a lock on her door because he didn't want her to feel uncomfortable because there was "a man in the house"; this was approximately very shortly after death; maybe two weeks if not less
  
• She came in after Jillian moved in; MM wanted her to show Jillian around
  
• Jillian didn't do anything that was related to the children; cook, clean, take care of children; she didn't do any of it; the kids were taking care of themselves; MM was doing cooking
  
• MM asked her to come to family meeting after that temple day; he said he had put up flyers asking for a nanny; he said Alexis was to no longer be a member of the family; that she thought he was having an affair; that her mother thought they were having an affair; "ridiculous", and that Alexis was to no longer be a member of the family
  
• She refused to play a role in finding/hiring a nanny after finding out Alexis had been excluded from family
  
• Became aware that MM and Jillian had an intimate relationship shortly after death; obvious; she was "goo-eyed" at my dad; did nothing like a nanny would do
  
  
• Prior to April 11, she and MM talked about his will; bizarre; objection by defense; approach
  
  
• MM talked about what was in his will; she, Alexis, and her mother were present; MM said that he wanted to go over everything; Alexis will be made executor if anything were to happen; her mom said "what about me?"; objection non-responsive; stricken from record
  
• MM said that Alexis would be in charge upon death, in presence of her mother
  
• MM gave $5000 each to Damian, her, and Alexis; very unusual; had never done anything like that before; never explained why; just a gift; this was around Easter; shortly before mom's death
  
• On April 11, he wanted to show her how he found her mom; MM said Ada found her; he went into bathroom
  
• He demonstrated how she was found; was adamant describing it; said Ada had gone in and found mom and called him; he went in and found her.  He showed her by bending over the tub to show how mom was found hanging over tub with her legs sticking out; described her as face down; he said she was under the water; her head was under water
  
• He said he couldn't lift her out; said he had Ada get neighbor; said she must have fallen and hit her head; kept repeating that the autopsy needed to be done
  
  
• He said she was wearing just a garment top; nothing else
  
• Attorney shows her bagged articles of clothing of her mother's; black shirt; she keeps handling it trying to figure out what it is; it's the top of the running outfit (but it's cut from the EMTs); the one she found in the "big bloody mess" of everything that was thrown in a pile in the garage
  
• another bag with a garment in it; her mother's white garment; found in the same place in the garage
  
• another bag with her mother's bra; found in the same pile
  
• turned all these items over to the investigators eventually
  
  
• Discussion back to temple; (she looks disgusted when it's brought up)
  
• MM said he had recognized Jillian; Jillian said she worked with him
  
• Jillian looked dressed as if going into the temple, but Jillian got in her car and Rachel never saw her go into the temple
  
• She saw her dad, days before mom's death, carrying heavy sheetrock down the stairs; she offered to help him carry them; he had no difficulty and was running down the stairs with them
  
• Before the funeral, she overheard MM talking to ME, Dr. Fricky (she could hear both ends of conversation)
  
• Following funeral, there was a family gathering for lunch; MM was there; he was commenting on how he's a single man now and being social; very casual; joking about being single; laughing; made her sick and she left
  

• lawyer asking her about not mentioning the joking about being single during preliminary hearing; witness doesn't remember; shut down that line of questioning (lawyer didn't try to refresh her memory)
  
• Asking her about Easter (a few days after the surgery); Michele was feeling a bit nauseous from surgery; mom was in bed when Rachel saw her; attorney trying to get her to say "she was sick" and that she had a migraine that day; she's not answering; lawyer now showing her the transcript from the prelim hearing; testimony was that she was in pain and had a migraine, and that she felt sick
  
• MM was sitting on couch; appeared distraught, was crying; "Ada is ruined"
  
• but at some point he was showing neighbors the remodeling
  
• going over what was wadded up in the garage; decorative towels from bathroom; little stuffed animals; big pile thrown in garage
  
• She's not good with blood; she saw blood and everything was wet
  
• Attorney questioning how much blood she saw; seeing blood makes her sick; "not my mother's blood"
  
• She washed the clothing that day (April 11)
  
• She bagged the clothing she had washed; gave to investigators much later
  
• she didn't want her little sisters to see the pile of stuff in the garage, especially the bloody clothing; dad said to get rid of it; she wanted to keep it but didn't want to keep bloody clothes, so that's why she washed them
  
  
• After MM demonstrated how Michele was found, that's when he kept bringing up the autopsy; continually
  
• lawyer going over interview with Det. Whitney; she doesn't remember what she told Whitney (effectively shutting down line of questioning)
  
• Now showing prelim transcript; going over her testimony; she told prosecutors before the prelim that MM kept talking about the autopsy; Rachel keeps saying she doesn't remember what she testified to, even after reading the transcripts
  
• Now discussing the overheard conversation with Dr. Fricky, who was on speakerphone
  
• MM was speaking to Dr. Fricky; asking if Alexis was asking  a lot of questions of Dr. Fricky; she said Alexis wasn't on the phone with Dr. F; MM was
  
• Shown transcript; she told Doug Whitney that Alexis had asked a lot of questions and medical things and Rachel kept leaving the room; too much for her to hear
  
  
• Temple incident:  questioning which Tuesday it was; could it have been the week after (i.e., two weeks after funeral); she doesn't remember
  
• Conversation about nanny happened on April 11; lawyer is saying that was brought up on day of funeral; not the day of death, per Rachel's conversation with Det. Whitney; reviewing these transcripts are not refreshing her memory; Rachel said he brought it up many times
  
• Attorney said he didn't want you to be the nanny because of your mental (something; condition? state?)  Objection by the state; sustained
  
• At funeral, Rachel read from her journal; doesn't remember if she wrote in it daily
  
• Attorney asking her what the journal looked like
  
• Defense attorney Spencer asked for the journal to be turned over; she says she couldn't find her journal; she had just moved; most of her stuff was in a different state
  
• MM joked at funeral (first comment when he spoke!)
  
• She does not recall her dad seeming sad at the funeral
  
• Going on testimony; she said he fluctuated between being sad and smiling; she said it depended who he was talking to; smiled/happy towards a few people, and Gypsy was one of them; attorney is saying this is new info that she's never said before
  
• "He had a big toe; he said it hurt"
  
  
• Attorney pushing her to say she was in bedroom downstairs and dad was in kitchen, and he was making a hop/drag sound; she doesn't remember that, but she remembers being asked that question at the prelim
  
• Attorney clarified that Rachel didn't help carry the sheetrock
  
• MM and Michele gave her a car; MM paid for her two weddings; and honeymoon
  
• Attorney asking her if she asked her dad in Mar/April 2007 for a new computer; no
  
• She bought a computer with the $5K he gave her so she could make a tribute website for her mom
  
• Attorney bringing up that her mom bought furniture for Rachel's apartment; mom didn't work outside home, so the money came from him; yes, mom helped decorate apartment
  
• talking about Rachel having lived in Seattle
  
  
• lived with Alexis for 3 years
  
• showing her the $5K check; also another check written by her mom the next day for $1K; Rachel doesn't remember getting that check; might have been for something she bought for them that she was reimbursed for
  
• showing her copies of checks made out to Rachel
  
• June 3, 2007; email written to "Lexie" - "something is very wrong"; questions about Gypsy/Jillian; why did dad pretend not to know her; why was she outside the temple that day; Rachel doesn't remember writing the email, but admits those were all questions she had
  
• Ever have delusions or psychosis?  Objection:  foundation
  
• Have you ever been diagnosed as bi-polar?  Yes
  

• during demo of how mom died, Alexis was present with her
  
• On April 11, Alexis, some neighbors, and her father where there; later the rest of the children were there
  
• $5K checks were handed out with MM, Michele, Alexis and Rachel present; doesn't remember if Damian was there
  
• Others were present when Jillian moved in (MM, Damian, Elle, Giselle, Eileen, Alexis, her)
  

• Did MM describe turning mom's body over during demo?  I don't remember
  
• Did MM express any concerns to you what he thought the autopsy might find?  I don't remember
  

• At first, business relationship
  
• Invited Michele to volunteer because of sewing skills, cooking, etc.; eventually Michele became a board member for the ballet assoc.
  
• all 8 children took ballet there
  
• good relationship with Michele; eventually they became very close friends
  
• 20 year relationship
  
• Attended Michele's funeral; MM spoke at funeral; he talked more about himself than Michele; talked about how he and the children would survive; it was about him and his grief
  
• MM and Jillian came to her house (with Sabrina, Elle, and Ada) two Monday's after the funeral; witness' husband was present
  
• MM introduced Jillian as new nanny; witness said she said how sorry she was for Michele's death
  
• MM said Michele had health problems her whole life and refused to take medication
  
• Witness offered to help take kids to ballet; MM said he hired a nanny who was a nursing student who wouldn't be available to pick up the kids to get them to ballet
  
• On Mothers Day, her grandson was christened that day at church; MM addressed congregation that day; he said how sad he was, and most of the rest of the talk was about single mothers and how they should be recognized on Mother's Day
  

• the day they went to her house, it seemed sooner than 3 weeks after funeral
  

• Both parties stipulate that the defense is not offering a defense that Michele committed suicide; jury will be so instructed
  
  
• Discussion about Ada testifying; defense arguing case law about a child's testimony being tainted intentionally or unconsciously and being excluded as a result.  Judge asked for specific examples.
  
• Ada first described black and blue clothing; later called it a running suit, as Alexis did.
  
• Defense doesn't know how that tainting occurred.  Therefore, impossible to cross-examine her.
  
• Defense saying Ada understood Alexis' opinion that MM killed Michele
  
• Ada's testimony has changed over time, per defense
  
• Lots of "new" facts being introduced
  
• McDonalds info also changed; Ada originally said mom was too sick to drive her to McD's; now she's saying Michele was planning to take her to McDs
  
• Discussing case law relative to this
  
• Defense wants Ada to not testify at all; but willing to accept partial testimony up to the justice center interview
  
  
• State acknowledges best practice would have been professional interviews
  
• defendant doesn't have right to expect child witness to only be questioned professionally
  
• State bringing up case law; refers to a child parroting what others said; not the case here
  
• State understands concern, but tainting is just speculation
  
• State says everything can be explored on cross-examination
  
• Discussing eye witnesses and how it can be questionable; but shouldn't be excluded
  
• The Daniels are husband and wife, but both described different clothing; that was allowed
  
• Judge sees some of what Ada said is corroborated by others (Daniels)
  
• defendant's statements to 911 corroborate; defendant's own statements about Ada being "ruined" corroborates
  
• Judge saying corroborating witnesses is what defense is saying is the problem; her story matches theirs (now)
  
  
• Defense:  body position illustrates the problem; her testimony about it changed
  
• Defense goes on and on; too hard to capture
  
• Defense: we know her testimony was tainted; requires extraordinary remedy (exclude testimony)
  
  
• State:  bias, reliablity, etc., can all be questioned during cross
  
• State:  more has come out, but not from taint; extraordinary if court excludes testimony
  
• Judge intends to render decision tomorrow morning at 8:30 if attorneys don't reach stipulation before then
  
  
• State brings up Roma Henry; jury was inquired; no one knew that witness; judge asked state not to call witness before next week to give defense time to prepare; judge will allow Henry to testify