Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

It's news to me, I'd just like it confirmed and to know what they meant by that statement!

Stolat wrote:

Tamta wrote:

Stolat wrote:

Freckles wrote:Sto-
"He says "we woke up" - "

Two possibilities I see:
When he says "we woke up" he may be referring to the family waking that morning. As in, "We drove to the beach." Obviously, only one person drove but several went.

The second possibility is he DID mean "we" in plural form and Becky had not yet left the house.

Because he used the plural in waking his sons we can not mean he and one of the sons. IF he and a son had woken he would not later say he then woke his sons, plural. He would have to say he woke the other son in singular.

(Dare I try a third possibility? Was his brother or anyone else staying at the home that night?)

BTW, have you figured out the meaning of "is"?

I think this is semantics, but here's the sentence again:
We woke up this morning and went to get her up, start her baseball game and she's gone. I woke up my, my sons

We know he's *not* referring to Becky in "we" because he reportedly woke at or around 8am and Becky was long gone by 7am -- so that possibility is out.

He says I woke up my sons - so sons is plural which means he woke both sons. And I think the first person pronoun indicated he personally woke up his two sons -- and since both boys sleep in same room it's highly unlikely he'd wake only one and not the other

He says "we woke up this morning and went to get her up" -- "went to get her up" is an action belonging to an unspecified group -- it could very well mean that Sergio delegated the task of waking Isa up to his son(s) and therefore still considered himself part of the activity of waking her.

It does not specify that he himself was the one to wake her. And in fact, we see from the 911 call that Sergio points out that his son was the one to notice the window open in her room -- so that establishes that one of the sons was the first to Isa's room -- the first to go wake Isa at the request of Sergio -- not Sergio himself.

But Becky could not be in that equation becauase as we already know -- Becky and Sergio testified that they woke up a two separate times -- Sergio at 8am and Becky at whatever time necessary to leave the house by 7am.

But you have a good point that we still do not know if there was yet another person in the home that evening.

In this call Sergio often switches his use of pronouns from I to We
As a means of reducing his responsibility by sharing culpability.

What's most twisted is that he is doing that primarily in relation to his children,

I completely agree Tamta - From his words, it seems he is associating himself and dis-associating himself opportunistically to establish an alibi or create a storyline. Within a 911 crisis call, there is no need to go into the details of he said/she said and the specifics of whom found what - they should only need the facts to get the police there as soon as possible and then you can elaborate on those details with the police when they arrive. The fact that Sergio starts so early into the call wasting valuable time by providing details that sound more like an alibi than a plea for help. Becky's call sounds more like a frantic plea for help.

The complete lack of anxiety in his voice was deeply concerning, combined with his attempts to involve his other children in 'knowing' with the 'we' pronoun quite frankly made me start thinking sociopath.

Calypso wrote:It's news to me, I'd just like it confirmed and to know what they meant by that statement!

I second that!

Sergio's initial call to 911 sounds "as a matter of fact" rather than a plea for help from a freaked out parent who went to their child's room and found the child gone, without a trace. Granted, there are some people who remain calm, cool and collected- in extreme situations, perhaps a part of his cool demeanor is from performing on stage?

In Sergio, jr's call, the teenage boy is distraught, and is pleading with the dispatcher to get someone over to the house.

Rebecca is correctly described as "frantic".

Calypso wrote:Sergio's initial call to 911 sounds "as a matter of fact" rather than a plea for help from a freaked out parent who went to their child's room and found the child gone, without a trace. Granted, there are some people who remain calm, cool and collected- in extreme situations, perhaps a part of his cool demeanor is from performing on stage?

In Sergio, jr's call, the teenage boy is distraught, and is pleading with the dispatcher to get someone over to the house.

Rebecca is correctly described as "frantic".

I'm sort of that person - crisis management person - I get into eery calm mode when all sh*t's hitting the fan. I think because I was raised with a mom who absolutely goes into hysteria for the smallest things. I had to overcompensate and react in the opposite manner to diffuse her "shoot-first-aim-later" reactions. However, in those cases, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be chuckling on a phone call that was required because my daughter maybe dead somewhere.

Not that this is a humorous matter, but this line of questioning sort of reminds me of the book Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus....

---
The dispatcher asks Celis why he thinks the girl was abducted.

"I have no idea," he said. "We woke up this morning and went to go get her up, start her baseball game and she's gone.
---

Clearly the dispatcher is not asking Sergio WHY someone would want to abduct Isabel -- I mean ...DUH. If he knew WHY someone would want to abduct her, he'd likely already know WHO had abducted her. The dispatcher was asking Sergio WHAT CONDITIONS were present that made Sergio believe she was abducted as opposed to just hiding out in the garage or floating in someone's pool.

I think eventually he gets it and answers that the window was open. But it still bothers me that he feels it necessary to connect his son to that revelation as if to create a coroborating story.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57434795-504083/isabel-celis-update-911-calls-released-in-case-of-missing-ariz-girl/

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2012/05/sergio-celis-deceptive-911-call.html

Calypso wrote:http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2012/05/sergio-celis-deceptive-911-call.html

Thanks Calypso. Sometimes I enjoy reading poster's comments after an article. One commenter on this article sums up Sergio's 911 call very accurately.

"The brother sounds like he is sniffling and crying at points.
Sergio sounds like he misplaced his car keys...."

Also I mentioned earlier that Sergio provides excess details in the 911 call, making it sound scripted and a premature CYA story -- this statement analysis feels similarly:

Note the awkward story telling: jumps from sleeping to baseball game, as if it matters in a kidnapping.

Very true -- no need to provide detailed rationale to the 911 dispatcher as to WHY he was waking up Isabel that morning. It was morning - time for kids to get up - 'nuff said.

Police conducting secondary search related to Celis case

Sgt. Maria Hawke has confirmed to KGUN9 that the search is related to the disappearance of Isabel Celis. However, she says the secondary search is not uncommon in missing person cases.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151589955.html

911 calls from Isabel Celis case released


Also on Monday, police confirmed that there has been a voluntary agreement between Sergio Celis and Child Protective Services that he will stay away from his two sons. They would not say what led to that decision.
Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villasenor cautioned reporters at an afternoon press conference not to read too much into the development and said it is not indicative of a specific path investigators are pursuing.


http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/15/911-calls-from-isabel-celis-case-released/?hpt=ng_mid

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/05/isabel-celis-911-calls-released-my-little-girl-i-believe-she-was-abducted/

Listen to the first 9 seconds of this call and I think you'll have all you need.

Disatcher: 911, what's your emergency?
Sergio: uh... I want to report a missing person, my little girl's 6 yrs old I believe she was abducted from our house [notice he doesn't take a breath between any of these words]

Okay -- now I'm quite the "crisis management" person -- but GOOD LORD - the first words out of his mouth sound like a GM OnStar commercial where the guy has just locked himself out of the car and needs assistance opening the doors. Swear to God - his voice is NO different.

In FACT there are even some OnStar commercials where the actors sound FAR more distraught that Sergio.

You gotta listen....

He keeps saying - MY SONS have looked everywhere - all around the house looking for her... MY SONS have looked all around the yard for her.

Why does he feel it necessary to keep bringing his sons into this story? Did he not personally conduct any of these searches himself? Why does he feel HIS WORD is not strong enough to get he cops there? All a parent has to do is simply say "I" can't find my daughter anywhere.

But the fact that he - on THREE separate occassions (sons search for Isa in the house, sons search for Isa outside, sons find the window open) - brings his SONS into the story tells me that he has doubts that his witness alone is strong enough to make a believer out of the dispatcher and he obviously feels that he must include his son's account of things to help fortify his claim. If he is being deceptive, he would know in advance that he runs the risk of having people challenge his story and so he immediately comes running in with WHY his story holds water -- his SONS saw it too - his SONS helped search - his SONS saw the open window. His account of things is not believable enough so he brings in the calgary right at curtain call.

Someone who is used to lying is also often used to getting caught at lying, and over time they have learned that their word is not trusted by anyone, so they build in extra reinforcements into their story to head the doubters off at the past.

Stolat wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/05/isabel-celis-911-calls-released-my-little-girl-i-believe-she-was-abducted/

Listen to the first 9 seconds of this call and I think you'll have all you need.

Disatcher: 911, what's your emergency?
Sergio: uh... I want to report a missing person, my little girl's 6 yrs old I believe she was abducted from our house [notice he doesn't take a breath between any of these words]

Okay -- now I'm quite the "crisis management" person -- but GOOD LORD - the first words out of his mouth sound like a GM OnStar commercial where the guy has just locked himself out of the car and needs assistance opening the doors. Swear to God - his voice is NO different.

In FACT there are even some OnStar commercials where the actors sound FAR more distraught that Sergio.

You gotta listen....

He keeps saying - MY SONS have looked everywhere - all around the house looking for her... MY SONS have looked all around the yard for her.

Why does he feel it necessary to keep bringing his sons into this story? Did he not personally conduct any of these searches himself? Why does he feel HIS WORD is not strong enough to get he cops there? All a parent has to do is simply say "I" can't find my daughter anywhere.

But the fact that he - on THREE separate occassions (sons search for Isa in the house, sons search for Isa outside, sons find the window open) - brings his SONS into the story tells me that he has doubts that his witness alone is strong enough to make a bleliver out of the dispatcher and he obviously feels that he must include his son's account of things to help fortify his claim. If he is being deceptive, he would know in advance that he runs the risk of having people challenge his story and so he immediately comes running in with WHY his story holds water -- his SONS saw it too - his SONS helped search - his SONS saw the open window. His account of things is not believable enough so he brings in the calgary right at curtain call.

Someone who is used to lying is also often used to getting caught at lying, and over time they have learned that their word is not trusted by anyone, so they build in extra reinforcements into their story to head the doubters off at the past.

BBM

YES YES YES.
Nailed it.

Tamta wrote:Police conducting secondary search related to Celis case

Sgt. Maria Hawke has confirmed to KGUN9 that the search is related to the disappearance of Isabel Celis. However, she says the secondary search is not uncommon in missing person cases.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151589955.html

What is a wash? I'm not being funny, I never heard of a wash.

Yes, Stolat I agree with you too. Also glad to see you here ! What father says I want to report a missing person ?? Wouldn't a person start out my little girl is missing, etc. Then 911 would start asking the specific questions. I actually wondered it might sound ridiculous to some, but here goes...was dad there before the call was made ? I am really concerned who was in the home that night. I don't think mom knew at first there was something suspicious but learned later. Iam still not sure what. Someone mentioned on SA today, (paraphrasing) the uncle could have been there overnight as he appeared to be dressed like an evening out. The poster wondered how he got there so fast ! A good question I think. Just on HLN Vinnie's expert is convinced dad knows exactly what happened . Why did he use the word abduction right away.?

snowbird wrote:

Tamta wrote:Police conducting secondary search related to Celis case

Sgt. Maria Hawke has confirmed to KGUN9 that the search is related to the disappearance of Isabel Celis. However, she says the secondary search is not uncommon in missing person cases.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151589955.html

What is a wash? I'm not being funny, I never heard of a wash.

It's usually a term for a creekbed that fills up with water after a heavy rain. Why there, I don't know. I haven't looked up the crossroads on the map yet (Golf Links & Alvernon), but I wonder what the significance of that location is.

snowbird wrote:

Tamta wrote:Police conducting secondary search related to Celis case

Sgt. Maria Hawke has confirmed to KGUN9 that the search is related to the disappearance of Isabel Celis. However, she says the secondary search is not uncommon in missing person cases.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151589955.html

What is a wash? I'm not being funny, I never heard of a wash.

It's a dry stream bed in that area.

nanshin wrote:Yes, Stolat I agree with you too. Also glad to see you here ! What father says I want to report a missing person ?? Wouldn't a person start out my little girl is missing, etc. Then 911 would start asking the specific questions. I actually wondered it might sound ridiculous to some, but here goes...was dad there before the call was made ? I am really concerned who was in the home that night. I don't think mom knew at first there was something suspicious but learned later. Iam still not sure what. Someone mentioned on SA today, (paraphrasing) the uncle could have been there overnight as he appeared to be dressed like an evening out. The poster wondered how he got there so fast ! A good question I think. Just on HLN Vinnie's expert is convinced dad knows exactly what happened . Why did he use the word abduction right away.?

That's funny Nanshin (good to see you too! btw) but that was exactly my first reaction too -- who says they want to report a missin person?! It sounds so distant. this is his CHILD for God's sake. I too immediately thought that I would start off the bat with OMFG! My daughter is MISSING! Please HURRY! But I didn't write that because I thought maybe I was being too critical and not everyone reacts the same -- but I'm glad I'm not the only one. I just am very uncomfortable with the fact that he immediately starts off in a manner that severely distances himself from his child.

Stolat wrote:

snowbird wrote:

Tamta wrote:Police conducting secondary search related to Celis case

Sgt. Maria Hawke has confirmed to KGUN9 that the search is related to the disappearance of Isabel Celis. However, she says the secondary search is not uncommon in missing person cases.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151589955.html

What is a wash? I'm not being funny, I never heard of a wash.

It's usually a term for a creekbed that fills up with water after a heavy rain. Why there, I don't know. I haven't looked up the crossroads on the map yet (Golf Links & Alvernon), but I wonder what the significance of that location is.

A tip perhaps?

I wonder how close it is to their house.

Just to be a little more clear, was dad and uncle out together "somewhere" ? Did they just arrive home around 7:00, in time for Becky to go to work. The time for work, 7:00 calling 911, 8:14, dogs barking and neighbor hearing men talking (daylight) is just "hinky" Something is not right and now with dad's flat affect on 911 AND now removed from being with boys ? I think something is going to break soon.

Tamta wrote:

snowbird wrote:

Tamta wrote:Police conducting secondary search related to Celis case

Sgt. Maria Hawke has confirmed to KGUN9 that the search is related to the disappearance of Isabel Celis. However, she says the secondary search is not uncommon in missing person cases.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151589955.html

What is a wash? I'm not being funny, I never heard of a wash.

It's a dry stream bed in that area.

Thanks, we don't have streams here and did not know this term. It would appear that they are not looking for a live child. How sad, I was first concern when they went into home and started looking at landfill right away. Now with these kind of searches and the daddy not being able to see his sons, I don't think this will end well.

Stolat wrote:

snowbird wrote:

Tamta wrote:Police conducting secondary search related to Celis case

Sgt. Maria Hawke has confirmed to KGUN9 that the search is related to the disappearance of Isabel Celis. However, she says the secondary search is not uncommon in missing person cases.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151589955.html

What is a wash? I'm not being funny, I never heard of a wash.

It's usually a term for a creekbed that fills up with water after a heavy rain. Why there, I don't know. I haven't looked up the crossroads on the map yet (Golf Links & Alvernon), but I wonder what the significance of that location is.

I really hope that it was from someone that saw something. There are two many children that are never found. I guess, I am tried of children and women being dump and never found.

snowbird wrote:

Tamta wrote:Police conducting secondary search related to Celis case

Sgt. Maria Hawke has confirmed to KGUN9 that the search is related to the disappearance of Isabel Celis. However, she says the secondary search is not uncommon in missing person cases.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151589955.html

What is a wash? I'm not being funny, I never heard of a wash.

Most cities (at least where I have lived) will use manmade resources to control water runoff. Because Tucson gets more rain than other desert cities (Phoenix and Las Vegas), they have a lot more flood issues. But, since Tucson is a much more natural city, most of their washes are natural (not helped out by manmade means, such as concrete). So these are literally dry areas that are lower than everywhere else, that can fill dangerously fast when there is a good solid rain (they can actually become rushing rivers in a matter of minutes). Tucson has these natural washes everywhere, and on the east side of town, where all of this is taking place, there are lots of washes. They also usually have heavy desert vegetation (Tucson is also much more green than a lot of other desert cities).

So does anyone know if Tuson has has any rain these last few weeks?

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18427472/police-searching-wash-for-evidence-in-isabel-celis-case
Police: Nothing found in search of wash near D-M

About 30 officers equipped with shovels and picks combed through the area this morning and left at about 1 p.m.

Police said nothing was discovered.

nanshin wrote:Just to be a little more clear, was dad and uncle out together "somewhere" ? Did they just arrive home around 7:00, in time for Becky to go to work. The time for work, 7:00 calling 911, 8:14, dogs barking and neighbor hearing men talking (daylight) is just "hinky" Something is not right and now with dad's flat affect on 911 AND now removed from being with boys ? I think something is going to break soon.

I think you are right, nanshin.

tabiduh wrote:

snowbird wrote:

Tamta wrote:Police conducting secondary search related to Celis case

Sgt. Maria Hawke has confirmed to KGUN9 that the search is related to the disappearance of Isabel Celis. However, she says the secondary search is not uncommon in missing person cases.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151589955.html

What is a wash? I'm not being funny, I never heard of a wash.

Most cities (at least where I have lived) will use manmade resources to control water runoff. Because Tucson gets more rain than other desert cities (Phoenix and Las Vegas), they have a lot more flood issues. But, since Tucson is a much more natural city, most of their washes are natural (not helped out by manmade means, such as concrete). So these are literally dry areas that are lower than everywhere else, that can fill dangerously fast when there is a good solid rain (they can actually become rushing rivers in a matter of minutes). Tucson has these natural washes everywhere, and on the east side of town, where all of this is taking place, there are lots of washes. They also usually have heavy desert vegetation (Tucson is also much more green than a lot of other desert cities).

That was a great explanation, now I have a clear picture in my mind. Since I am below sea level we just flood here because we can't put the water fast enough.

nanshin wrote:Just to be a little more clear, was dad and uncle out together "somewhere" ? Did they just arrive home around 7:00, in time for Becky to go to work. The time for work, 7:00 calling 911, 8:14, dogs barking and neighbor hearing men talking (daylight) is just "hinky" Something is not right and now with dad's flat affect on 911 AND now removed from being with boys ? I think something is going to break soon.

We don't know.

But we do have an ear witness to two men talking outside isa's room sometime around 630am.

And around 8 am Justin is searching for a "missing child" at the neighbors.

Glamourcat wrote:So does anyone know if Tuson has has any rain these last few weeks?

I think they got a little bit of rain last week when there was that giant dust storm that blew all the way up to Phoenix (and the nasty remnants hit Vegas). But I don't think there has been enough rain to cause any flash flooding. That won't start for another month and a half or so (monsoon season).

http://rainlog.org/usprn/html/main/maps.jsp

Nice site to check rain levels

ABDUCTION: PD Confirm Isabel Celis was abducted
clipped-

" On Tuesday, nearly a month since she went missing, police said for the first time that she was abducted, rather than characterizing the case as a "suspicious disappearance/possible abduction."

" Experts say the abduction of a child from a home is relatively rare."

http://columbustelegram.com/news/national/police-confirm-missing-tucson-girl-was-abducted/article_b3bd8d52-036c-5826-bd28-5657bbe0bfa6.html

Freckles wrote:ABDUCTION: PD Confirm Isabel Celis was abducted
clipped-

" On Tuesday, nearly a month since she went missing, police said for the first time that she was abducted, rather than characterizing the case as a "suspicious disappearance/possible abduction."

" Experts say the abduction of a child from a home is relatively rare."

http://columbustelegram.com/news/national/police-confirm-missing-tucson-girl-was-abducted/article_b3bd8d52-036c-5826-bd28-5657bbe0bfa6.html

Holy %}>%.

[quote="Tamta"]

Freckles wrote:ABDUCTION: PD Confirm Isabel Celis was abducted
clipped-

" On Tuesday, nearly a month since she went missing, police said for the first time that she was abducted, rather than characterizing the case as a "suspicious disappearance/possible abduction."

" Experts say the abduction of a child from a home is relatively rare."

http://columbustelegram.com/news/national/police-confirm-missing-tucson-girl-was-abducted/article_b3bd8d52-036c-5826-bd28-5657bbe0bfa6.html

SNIPPED.
BBM.

Hawke said it was a coincidence that the two pieces of information were released at once and that the child welfare decision was released to keep the public informed of the investigation. News organizations had been requesting the 911 recordings, which take a while to prepare and happened to be ready on the same day as the child welfare news conference.

"People are free to form their own opinions," Hawke said.

how efficient and tidy, all of these releases at once.
what does this mean?

Hold on a minute! Am I losing my mind?? How is it classified as an abduction? Is Sergio the one who abducted her?

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Police-search-Tucson-wash-for-Isabel-Celis-151631445.html
Police, deputies search Tucson wash for Isabel Celis

"There's no indication whatsoever that Isabel just got up and left the house on her own," said Tucson police spokeswoman Sgt. Maria Hawke. "She left through the power, through assistance, of someone else. Either somebody took her or inticed her out of the residence in some way, shape or form and so for that reason we cannot just say that she got up and walked out."

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/18429034/2012/05/15/police-confirm-missing-tucson-girl-was-abducted
Police confirm missing Tucson girl was abducted

Police spokeswoman Maria Hawke said investigators have eliminated one theory. "She didn't get up and leave the house on her own," Hawke said.
__________________________________________

i have not been able to find a direct quote or video of Sgt Hawke actually saying "Isabel was abducted"...i think the media ran with the headline based on just the few quotes i found above. Either way, that does not eliminate family (in my mind)!

This may be the article from which AP drew on as a source.

Police search desert north of D-M for evidence in Celis case



Isabel was abducted, police said

Isabel Mercedes Celis was taken from her midtown home by someone three weeks ago, said Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor — confirming for the first time that the case is an abduction.

"Someone played a part in her disappearance," Villaseñor said in an interview with the Star. "Some person is responsible for Isabel's disappearance. Isabel did not just wander off."

For weeks, police have labeled the case a "suspicious disappearance" and "possible" abduction.


http://azstarnet.com/mobi/latest/article_2862dfba-f90b-560a-bc5b-28688eda8e04.html

Honeysage wrote:http://www.azfamily.com/news/Police-search-Tucson-wash-for-Isabel-Celis-151631445.html
Police, deputies search Tucson wash for Isabel Celis

"There's no indication whatsoever that Isabel just got up and left the house on her own," said Tucson police spokeswoman Sgt. Maria Hawke. "She left through the power, through assistance, of someone else. Either somebody took her or inticed her out of the residence in some way, shape or form and so for that reason we cannot just say that she got up and walked out."

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/18429034/2012/05/15/police-confirm-missing-tucson-girl-was-abducted
Police confirm missing Tucson girl was abducted

Police spokeswoman Maria Hawke said investigators have eliminated one theory. "She didn't get up and leave the house on her own," Hawke said.
__________________________________________

i have not been able to find a direct quote or video of Sgt Hawke actually saying "Isabel was abducted"...i think the media ran with the headline based on just the few quotes i found above. Either way, that does not eliminate family (in my mind)!

_______

Agreed Honeysage.

snipped
BBM
http://azstarnet.com/mobi/latest/article_2862dfba-f90b-560a-bc5b-28688eda8e04.html

The chief also said the 6-year-old's parents, Sergio and Becky Celis, have still not been ruled out as suspects.

Investigators are in daily contact with the parents, but the relationship has become "much more strained now," Villaseñor said. "They are frustrated."

The chief said the parents are being asked "very pointed questions now."

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18431619/father-who-lost-daughter-questions-sergios-behavior
Father who lost daughter questions Sergio's behavior

Klaas says beyond Sergio's 911 recording, his and Becky Celis' actions and the circumstances around them, including the separation of Sergio from his boys hurts not only their image but possibly holds up the investigation to find their daughter.

"That creates a cloud of suspicion over Sergio, and I think he's got to work very, very hard to clear that up, and to get back his good name, and to allow law enforcement to move beyond him to other possibilities that exist," Klaas said.

Statement Analysis: Isabel Celis 911 Call Part One

Tuesday, May 15, 2012



http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2012/05/statement-analysis-isabel-celis-911.html

Isabel's Brothers: What Did They Disclose?

Tuesday, May 15, 2012

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2012/05/isabels-brothers-what-did-they-disclose.html

I hope that Rebecca Celis and her sons are very well protected/hidden. If Sergio Celis is guilty of anything related to Isabel's disappearance, he might feel he has very little to lose at this point. I am worried for the safety of Ms. Celis and her sons.

I was flipping thru the channels yesterday and JVM was playing the 911 call... My 15 yo daughter was sitting at the table with me and when the dad said he called the mom and told her to get her butt home hahaha.... My daughter stopped what she was doing, didn't say a word and looked at the TV then to me with her mouth open. She said that was creepy... Something is wrong with that man, his daughter is gone... She wasn't really even paying attention and his behavior stopped her in her tracks...

How usual is it for LE to put out some tiny opinion or piece of evidence just to watch to see what crawls out to bite the bait? I am wondering if the PD have done that --- try to get Sergio or the boys, the mother to offer more info by claiming this to be an abduction? (Technically, they have said nothing we did not know from the get-go: Isabel did NOT leave the home on her own volition; ie, she is not a run away, nor did she sleep walk out the door.)

I am confused!! How did this become an abduction??? Did they just get lab results back with unknown hair, dna or fingerprints from around the room Isa was in? Or is this just because they can't come up with a new story line for the media?

I agree with Freckles.. about bait??

Freckles wrote:Have usual is it for LE to put out some tiny opinion or piece of evidence just to watch to see what crawls out to bite the bait? I am wondering if the PD have done that --- try to get Sergio or the boys, the mother to offer more info by claiming this to be an abduction? (Technically, they have said nothing we did not know from the get-go: Isabel did NOT leave the home on her own volition; ie, she is not a run away, nor did she sleep walk out the door.)

It is all bizarre. I'm wondering if this is a technicality statement (sort of like the Red Jetta snafu in the Sierra LaMar case). I'm wondering if they technically classify it an abduction when they don't think the child died in the house or left the house on their own. If the child had been taken from the home, I wonder if that meets the criteria. And perhaps a parent is not excluded from that criteria either. Afterall, when moms take off with kids during nasty custody trials, police call it an "abduction" even though the kids are with the parent. So who knows, maybe this new term does not necessarily rule out Sergio.

Too many things are "off". The parents won't take credit if they passed the poly. Based on the current events, I would guess Becky passed but Sergio didn't but Becky has to remain silent or else she'll highlight the fact Sergio failed.

The 911 call that sounds like an OnStar request with a flat tire. The barred contact by CPS.

But then there's the issue of men's voices outside Isa's window at 6:30am

And yet an announcement that almost sounds like there are yet more external parties involved.

And this is the first time in a LONG time that I've heard of a case that considered there may be multiple men working together on an abduction of a child. That just doesn't seem to fit the typical abduction MO, does it?

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/child_abduction/4.html

information on the abduction theory..

based on this seems rare that 2 men would be involved!

Az Statute for definition of kidnapping:
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/01301.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS

and FYI: Az Revised Criminal Code
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=13

justanopinion wrote:http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/child_abduction/4.html

information on the abduction theory..

based on this seems rare that 2 men would be involved!

IIRC, there was a news vid interviewing the neighbor. She said she was awoken about 6:30 by her dogs barking, the neighbor's (Celis) dogs barking, and hearing TWO men talking. The voices were coming from over the wall; her bedroom is directly across from the room Isabel was reportedly sleeping in.

The mother, in her 911 call stated the possibility of someone going over the wall, removing the screen, and snatching Isabel. I have problems with this theory:
1. Who would know this is where Isabel was sleeping that night? Not her normal sleep room.
2. Dogs:Inside or out? Won't matter. Dogs WILL protect the children. In the house the dogs would have been sounding a huge alarm, ripping at a door or trying to bite the intruder. In the yard the dogs would have been protecting the property, THEIR property from any UNKNOWN intruder.
3. Abduction: Someone is going to climb over a wall, kidnap a 6 yr old who will be screaming and kicking, risk a dog bite, haul a child back over a wall? For what avail?
Sorry but there are much easier ways and less risky to snatch a child.
4. First talk with 911 and the mother is creating an abduction theory AND explanation when it is not called for. Too soon and too much = inside knowledge or an info set up.

The dogs DID alarm at 6:30 according to the neighbor. And that is when she heard the two male voices. This tells me at least one of the males was a stranger or some person the dogs did NOT trust. The behavior of the males may have raised the Hinky pelt of our fine friends.

IMO at this time, BOTH the parents know what happened. I suspect the older 14 yr old boy may also know what happened. Because he is a minor, I don't think his statements will be released at this time.

Becky did not check on Isa the morning she left for work. So the last time she saw Isa was at 11pm.

From the 911 call:
BECKY CELIS: My husband. I went to work this morning at 7:00. And I just -- I didn`t even come in and check on her! I should have checked on her!

Okay - and seriously? not to be picky but when my daughter was six, she was growing fast and if someone aske me how tall she was, I'd have to stop and think about it. Sergio rattles off her height in explicit measure as if he had it prepared and knew he'd be asked.

911 OPERATOR: How tall is she?
SERGIO CELIS: She is 5-2.

And notice he doesn't say "um..." like he normally does - this answer he's ready for.

SERGIO CELIS: Oh, my daughter. My wife`s just got home and she`s kind of hysterical and freaking out.

Notice he doesn't claim to share the sentiment and that the sentiment of panic is "hers" not his. He does not say "we're" panicking or freaking out. When he wants to share accountability he will often say "we" but in this case, he distances him self from the act of panick and attributes it to her only.

Authorities search Arizona desert for missing Tucson girl Isabel Celis

BBM

Also on Tuesday, police officially confirmed Isabel was kidnapped.


Tucson Police Chief Robert Villaseñor told the Star, “Someone played a part in her disappearance... Some person is responsible for Isabel's disappearance. Isabel did not just wander off.”

Here it is again.
It is not being shouted from the roof tops by LE so media must be sourcing each other.

http://www.examiner.com/article/authorities-search-arizona-desert-for-missing-tucson-girl-isabel-celis

Freckles wrote:
IIRC, there was a news vid interviewing the neighbor. She said she was awoken about 6:30 by her dogs barking, the neighbor's (Celis) dogs barking, and hearing TWO men talking. The voices were coming from over the wall; her bedroom is directly across from the room Isabel was reportedly sleeping in.

The mother, in her 911 call stated the possibility of someone going over the wall, removing the screen, and snatching Isabel. I have problems with this theory:
1. Who would know this is where Isabel was sleeping that night? Not her normal sleep room.
2. Dogs:Inside or out? Won't matter. Dogs WILL protect the children. In the house the dogs would have been sounding a huge alarm, ripping at a door or trying to bite the intruder. In the yard the dogs would have been protecting the property, THEIR property from any UNKNOWN intruder.
3. Abduction: Someone is going to climb over a wall, kidnap a 6 yr old who will be screaming and kicking, risk a dog bite, haul a child back over a wall? For what avail?
Sorry but there are much easier ways and less risky to snatch a child.
4. First talk with 911 and the mother is creating an abduction theory AND explanation when it is not called for. Too soon and too much = inside knowledge or an info set up.

The dogs DID alarm at 6:30 according to the neighbor. And that is when she heard the two male voices. This tells me at least one of the males was a stranger or some person the dogs did NOT trust. The behavior of the males may have raised the Hinky pelt of our fine friends.

IMO at this time, BOTH the parents know what happened. I suspect the older 14 yr old boy may also know what happened. Because he is a minor, I don't think his statements will be released at this time.

BBM
Freckles - you don't have a golden retriever, do you lol! I agree, my golden would yelp her head off if a stranger entered the home (cause it's happened before) but she would never bite and if someone pet her, she'd immediately stop barking and start wagging her tail. Goldens are good watch dogs, but suck as guard dogs.

But you raise a very significant point that I think we have overlooked or downplayed. You are right. The Celis dogs did bark like crazy at 6:30am (and Becky would have been awak). and the dogs most likely would NOT have barked at one of their own owners. So who were the dogs barking at outside the window?