George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #1

Gizmo711 wrote:I listened to that 911 call over and over, I did not hear anthing that sounded like a car door opening or closing. ...

Listen to that 911 call again. At the very end the dispatcher asks GZ his home address and GZ starts to say it but then says he doesn't want to say it out loud because "I don't know where this kid is." If GZ were back in his car he could say anything he wants out loud. Clearly he is outside looking for TM.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93646122/Redacted-witness-and-evidence-list-filed-by-the-state-in-George-Zimmerman-case

--list of evidence filed by the State...8 pages.

Stolat wrote:

Twinkle wrote:
This is more implication than hard, cold evidence, but since GZ is a 28 year old married man, it stands to reason that he would call his wife to come get him rather than his father, who had after all been recovering from some sort of heart-related problem. I surely would not drag my parents out of bed in the middle of the night if my spouse or a sibling were available to help. Also, if RZ had seen his son the night of the incident, I would think he would have said "I saw him that night". It would be foolish for him to lie about something like this, since there would be plenty of witnesses to vouch for who was there, and who came to pick up GZ.

I get you - I'm just saying if he showed up at 11pm he could say he saw them that night. If he didn't get to pick up GZ until 3 or 4am then he would not be lying if he saw him next morning.

And I beg to disagree about GZ and his parents's coattails. *Normal* adult men do what you describe above. But we're talking about GZ - the same GZ who let his parents second-mortgage their house to bail him out when he had $200k in a paypal account and obviously knew what he had to have already spent $50,000 on incidentals.

And I think it will be interesting to find out from GZ's phone records who exactly it was he was pictured on the phone with in the photograph at the crime scene -- we all know it wasn't his wife that he called first because he commanded a neighbor to do that for him. So this is the same guy who doesn't even call his own wife to tell her he murdered someone, but rather he's chatting on the phone to someone else. I don't yet have enough observed behavioral patterns to assume he called his wife in jail either. He may have and that's certainly a possibility but I won't go aruguing staunchly on it given his past unexplainable behavior - his actions show he is capable of doing just about nothing that one would expect from *normal* - including staying in his flippin car .... but that's just my opinion, and I respect yours. NOTE: I'm not saying *you* are arguing -- I'm just saying in general I can't yet firmly stand behind the notion yet.

I understand where you are coming from but still think it more likely that his wife picked him up, especially in light of what RZ said in the article. It will definitely be interesting to see what the phone records reveal.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
I read it somewhere before the prosecutors filed their list of witnesses, the information may not be accurate.

Thanks for answering my question! There are bits and pieces of information floating around out there, so it's really hard to know what to believe, especially the young lady in question has been avoiding the media.

ellejay wrote:

--robZ Sr. clearly does not think before he speaks.
...................
“No parent can completely control their child. I believe Trayvon made a bad decision,” he said. “When I was young, I had my issues. I would have liked to see Trayvon change his life and get married and achieve his dreams. He made a decision that changed that, and things didn’t work out for anybody.” ( things? seriously? thing1--george is charged w/ murder2...thing2--trayvon is dead.)
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/14/2799569_p2/zimmermans-father-our-lives-will.html

BBM - this really boils my blood. Trayvon Martin had just turned 17!!!! Change his life? - because he had suspensions? Get married?? From all evidence Trayvon was not an aggressive/violent kid and Zimmerman's kid George had already been charged with aggressive behavior as an adult!

Hmmm, looks like the the two FBI witnesses on the witness list, Kenneth Marr and Hirotaka Nakasone, are audio forensic experts. They have collaborated on publications with titles like:

"An introduction to forensic gunshot acoustics."

"Progress toward a forensic voice data format standard."


http://www.researchgate.net/researcher/57842405_Hirotaka_Nakasone

ellejay wrote:http://www.scribd.com/doc/93646122/Redacted-witness-and-evidence-list-filed-by-the-state-in-George-Zimmerman-case

--list of evidence filed by the State...8 pages.

Thank you, Ellejay.

Kenneth Marr testified at the O.J. Simpson robbery/kidnapping trial:

FBI audio analyst Kenneth Marr told the court that he was not able to authenticate the recordings on Riccio’s digital recorder.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/sep/17/fbi-expert-testifies-simpson-robberykidnapping-tri/


Regarding Hirotaka Nakasone:

Hirotaka Nakasone earned his master’s degree in audiology and speech sciences in 1979, followed by a Ph.D. in 1984. Currently, he is a forensic scientist and examiner of audio evidence for the FBI. In this capacity, he provides forensic examinations in voice comparison, speech/signal analysis, and audio enhancement. He has conducted a total of 1,200 forensic cases involving criminal, domestic, and international terrorism investigations. While at the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, he designed the Computer Assisted Voice Identification System (CAVIS) that has been adopted by law enforcement and intelligence agencies throughout the world.

http://news.msu.edu/story/8/

Twinkle wrote:Hmmm, looks like the the two FBI witnesses on the witness list, Kenneth Marr and Hirotaka Nakasone, are audio forensic experts. They have collaborated on publications with titles like:

"An introduction to forensic gunshot acoustics."

"Progress toward a forensic voice data format standard."


http://www.researchgate.net/researcher/57842405_Hirotaka_Nakasone

Hmmm.... Could forensic gunshot acoustics be as in sound of a gun clip being loaded?

Twinkle wrote:Hmmm, looks like the the two FBI witnesses on the witness list, Kenneth Marr and Hirotaka Nakasone, are audio forensic experts. They have collaborated on publications with titles like:

"An introduction to forensic gunshot acoustics."

"Progress toward a forensic voice data format standard."


http://www.researchgate.net/researcher/57842405_Hirotaka_Nakasone

As well as the two audio analaysts who reported to the Sun Sentinel about the authenticity of the voice match to GZ -Tom Owen and Ed Primeau
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-15/news/os-george-zimmernman-omara-gets-discovery-20120514_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-rachel-fugate

--the witness list:

--although we've heard 7 - 911 calls, there are 9 listed (W's 3.5.6.11.14.15.18.19 & 20.)i wonder why they held back on 2 of them when they released the others earlier?

--W's 4.7.& 10 aren't ON "the list" at all.

--W15 is down for a 911 call that night----but there is no LE interview to go w/ it. why did they not interview one of the 911 callers?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93646122/Redacted-witness-and-evidence-list-filed-by-the-state-in-George-Zimmerman-case

forensic gun acoustic expert:

“The direction of the shooter can be determined by the muzzle blast, but not by the shock wave. You can determine the range to the shooter if you use both the muzzle blast and shock wave.”

If they can do that, are they able to tell how far away GZ was from Trayvon when he pulled the trigger? can they tell the sound of a clip being loaded into a gun? Wow - now I want to know what they found.

http://thesoftanonymous.com/2011/10/30/gunshot-forensics-whats-in-a-bang/

ellejay wrote:--the witness list:

--although we've heard 7 - 911 calls, there are 9 listed (W's 3.5.6.11.14.15.18.19 & 20.)i wonder why they held back on 2 of them when they released the others earlier?

--W's 4.7.& 10 aren't ON "the list" at all.

--W15 is down for a 911 call that night----but there is no LE interview to go w/ it. why did they not interview one of the 911 callers?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93646122/Redacted-witness-and-evidence-list-filed-by-the-state-in-George-Zimmerman-case

I'm speculating here Ellejay - but could it be they didn't have the other 2 recordings at the time the turned the others over to the media? And once they discovered those, they made the decision to not turn them over because they were part of the "ongoing investigation"?

This is a witness list, right? Maybe they do not intend to call 4, 7 and 10 as witnesses, but they have to disclose them to O'Mara in case he wants to?

Just guessing.

By the way - as I recall, someone had asked where the Skittles and Iced Tea were found. This is all I could find about the skittles and Iced Tea:

http://racetothestoneage.tumblr.com/post/18961787419/misterdelfuego-family-of-florida-boy-killed-by

Quote from Martin family attorney Crump:
“What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles,” Crump said. “A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad.”

Stolat wrote:

Twinkle wrote:Hmmm, looks like the the two FBI witnesses on the witness list, Kenneth Marr and Hirotaka Nakasone, are audio forensic experts. They have collaborated on publications with titles like:

"An introduction to forensic gunshot acoustics."

"Progress toward a forensic voice data format standard."


http://www.researchgate.net/researcher/57842405_Hirotaka_Nakasone

As well as the two audio analaysts who reported to the Sun Sentinel about the authenticity of the voice match to GZ -Tom Owen and Ed Primeau
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-15/news/os-george-zimmernman-omara-gets-discovery-20120514_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-rachel-fugate

I just hope "Henry Lee" doesn't get on the forensic list.

angela_nw wrote:

ellejay wrote:

--robZ Sr. clearly does not think before he speaks.
...................
“No parent can completely control their child. I believe Trayvon made a bad decision,” he said. “When I was young, I had my issues. I would have liked to see Trayvon change his life and get married and achieve his dreams. He made a decision that changed that, and things didn’t work out for anybody.” ( things? seriously? thing1--george is charged w/ murder2...thing2--trayvon is dead.)
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/14/2799569_p2/zimmermans-father-our-lives-will.html

BBM - this really boils my blood. Trayvon Martin had just turned 17!!!! Change his life? - because he had suspensions? Get married?? From all evidence Trayvon was not an aggressive/violent kid and Zimmerman's kid George had already been charged with aggressive behavior as an adult!

Just goes to show the mind set of this family........If Trayvon received a ticket for jay walking, that would have been enough for that family to say the very same thing....

ABC News Exclusive: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Trayvon Martin Shooting

By MATT GUTMAN (@mattgutmanABC) and SENI TIENABESO (@senijr_abc)
May 15, 2012

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

Zimmerman faces a second degree murder charge for the Feb. 26 shooting that left the unarmed 17-year-old high school junior dead. Zimmerman has claimed self defense in what he described as a life and death struggle that Martin initiated by accosting him, punching him in the face, then repeatedly bashing his head into the pavement.

Also today, a trove of documents are being examined by lawyers for both the defense and prosecution as part of discovery in Zimmerman's trial -- including 67 CDs worth of documents, video of Martin on the night of the shooting, his autopsy report and videos of Zimmerman's questioning by police.

Zimmerman's three-page medical report is included in those documents that the defense could use as evidence.

The morning after the shooting, on Feb. 27, Zimmerman sought treatment at the offices of a general physician at a family practice near Sanford, Fla. The doctor notes Zimmerman sought an appointment to get legal clearance to return to work.

The record shows that Zimmerman also suffered bruising in the upper lip and cheek and lower back pain. The two lacerations on the back of his head, one of them nearly an inch long, the other about a quarter-inch long, were first revealed in photos obtained exclusively by ABC News last month.

~~ snipped ~~

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T7Lk6lKbywR

Gizmo711 wrote:

Stolat wrote:

Twinkle wrote:Hmmm, looks like the the two FBI witnesses on the witness list, Kenneth Marr and Hirotaka Nakasone, are audio forensic experts. They have collaborated on publications with titles like:

"An introduction to forensic gunshot acoustics."

"Progress toward a forensic voice data format standard."


http://www.researchgate.net/researcher/57842405_Hirotaka_Nakasone

As well as the two audio analaysts who reported to the Sun Sentinel about the authenticity of the voice match to GZ -Tom Owen and Ed Primeau
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-15/news/os-george-zimmernman-omara-gets-discovery-20120514_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-rachel-fugate

I just hope "Henry Lee" doesn't get on the forensic list.

Or Linda Kenney Baden...that woman drives me batty!

Autopsy results show Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles

SANFORD, Fla. —

WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.

The autopsy results come as Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O’Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case.

O’Mara wouldn't comment on the autopsy evidence, but WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said it's better for the defense than it is for the prosecution.

~~ snipped ~~

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/

Twinkle wrote:

ABC News Exclusive: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Trayvon Martin Shooting

By MATT GUTMAN (@mattgutmanABC) and SENI TIENABESO (@senijr_abc)
May 15, 2012

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

Zimmerman faces a second degree murder charge for the Feb. 26 shooting that left the unarmed 17-year-old high school junior dead. Zimmerman has claimed self defense in what he described as a life and death struggle that Martin initiated by accosting him, punching him in the face, then repeatedly bashing his head into the pavement.

Also today, a trove of documents are being examined by lawyers for both the defense and prosecution as part of discovery in Zimmerman's trial -- including 67 CDs worth of documents, video of Martin on the night of the shooting, his autopsy report and videos of Zimmerman's questioning by police.

Zimmerman's three-page medical report is included in those documents that the defense could use as evidence.

The morning after the shooting, on Feb. 27, Zimmerman sought treatment at the offices of a general physician at a family practice near Sanford, Fla. The doctor notes Zimmerman sought an appointment to get legal clearance to return to work.

The record shows that Zimmerman also suffered bruising in the upper lip and cheek and lower back pain. The two lacerations on the back of his head, one of them nearly an inch long, the other about a quarter-inch long, were first revealed in photos obtained exclusively by ABC News last month.

~~ snipped ~~

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T7Lk6lKbywR

--from link:

"According to the report, prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazepam, medications that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients."

--i wonder why he had been prescribed those 2 drugs, or what Adderall and/or Temazepam are generally used for?

--i could also care less about the medical report and george's injuries-----that's what can happen when you track an innocent teen who ends up in a fight for his life against the lunatic who should not have been following and hunting him down in the 1st place.

Twinkle wrote:

Autopsy results show Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles

SANFORD, Fla. —

WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.

The autopsy results come as Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O’Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case.

O’Mara wouldn't comment on the autopsy evidence, but WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said it's better for the defense than it is for the prosecution.

~~ snipped ~~

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/

I was looking over the 8 page doc that was released with the witness list. Angela Corey was assigned that case on March 23, 2012 as close as I can determine through Google search. Everyone complained that SDP wasn't doing anything.

On Page 4, there is a list of police reports that were generated by them that total 76 pages and a vast majority (36) were by Chris Serino up until March 22nd.

I am confuzzled. I thought that Serino was the LE that wanted to arrest GZ from the start on manslaughter charges. That flies in the face of what Serino told the Orlando Sentinel on March 17th, just 5 days before the case was turned over to SA Corey.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-17/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316_1_deadly-shooting-shot-man-reports

From the article...
-Investigator Chris Serino of Sanford police said Friday the agency has worked closely with prosecutors, and have not arrested Zimmerman because prosecutors have consistently told them they do not have enough evidence to win a manslaughter conviction.
That's because Zimmerman says he was defending himself, something he's allowed to do under Florida law.
The best account of what happened came from Zimmerman, Serino said. Other witnesses who saw or heard parts of what happened corroborate his version of events, the investigator said.

-Zimmerman told police that Trayvon was the aggressor. Police have found no credible evidence, Serino said, to contradict that.
"Everything we have is adding up to what he says," said Serino

-Serino said Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, listened to all of the 911 calls in the case before the entire family convened at City Hall to listen Friday night. When asked if the voice on one, a male calling for help was his son, told Serino no.

-Police lied Friday, Crump said, when they said Tracy Martin said the voice crying for help was not his son. What Tracy Martin told police, Crump said, was that "he couldn't tell, that it was too distorted."

From the Twitter box on Anthony Portal forum page:

InSession (CNN/TruTv) tweeted:

InSession #TrayvonMartin: #Zimmerman's dad - I'm living like a fugitive on the run, hiding from the media. For more:ow.ly/aVToS
5 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To click on the URL, please go to the Anthony Updates Twitter box on the Anthony Portal page. The Twitter box is on the left side.

http://www.realitychatter.com/?pid=4

For your info, it is now a multi-media box and you might want to check it off and on. I check it several times a day. Various media tweet updates. I think J4A has it set to accept tweets from certain media. He set it up for us during the Anthony saga!

The news releases seem to be favoring the Defense side. I am ready to see what supports the Prosecution now.

DebFrmHell wrote:The news releases seem to be favoring the Defense side. I am ready to see what supports the Prosecution now.

....which kind of begs the question: is O'Mara leaking all this information?

ellejay wrote:
--from link:

"According to the report, prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazepam, medications that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients."

--i wonder why he had been prescribed those 2 drugs, or what Adderall and/or Temazepam are generally used for?

--i could also care less about the medical report and george's injuries-----that's what can happen when you track an innocent teen who ends up in a fight for his life against the lunatic who should not have been following and hunting him down in the 1st place.

Through the magic of google...

Adderall --> commonly used to treat ADHD

Temazepam --> commonly used to treat insomnia

Another new tweet from InSession (CNN:Tru-TV)

from the Anthony Updates Twitter box on the Anthony Portal page:

InSession Prosecutors in #TrayvonMartin trial filed new documents giving sneak peak into case. For more: ow.ly/aVTJs
about 1 minute ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Twinkle wrote:

DebFrmHell wrote:The news releases seem to be favoring the Defense side. I am ready to see what supports the Prosecution now.

....which kind of begs the question: is O'Mara leaking all this information?

I would think that is entirely possible/probable. Especially since some of the autopsy results contradict the Mortician that was put on TV by Crump and Co.

These guys are playahs!

DebFrmHell wrote:I am confuzzled. I thought that Serino was the LE that wanted to arrest GZ from the start on manslaughter charges. That flies in the face of what Serino told the Orlando Sentinel on March 17th, just 5 days before the case was turned over to SA Corey.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-17/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316_1_deadly-shooting-shot-man-reports

From the article...
-Investigator Chris Serino of Sanford police said Friday the agency has worked closely with prosecutors, and have not arrested Zimmerman because prosecutors have consistently told them they do not have enough evidence to win a manslaughter conviction.
That's because Zimmerman says he was defending himself, something he's allowed to do under Florida law.
The best account of what happened came from Zimmerman, Serino said. Other witnesses who saw or heard parts of what happened corroborate his version of events, the investigator said.

-Zimmerman told police that Trayvon was the aggressor. Police have found no credible evidence, Serino said, to contradict that.
"Everything we have is adding up to what he says," said Serino

This particular bit of disinformation has been very persistent. It seems multiple news agencies reported the initial allegation that Serino had wanted to arrest Zimmerman and was prevented from doing so by the prosecutors, but very few reported on the news conference that occurred a few days later when Serino contradicted those claims and stated that the evidence he had supported Zimmerman's story.

DebFrmHell wrote:-Serino said Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, listened to all of the 911 calls in the case before the entire family convened at City Hall to listen Friday night. When asked if the voice on one, a male calling for help was his son, told Serino no.

-Police lied Friday, Crump said, when they said Tracy Martin said the voice crying for help was not his son. What Tracy Martin told police, Crump said, was that "he couldn't tell, that it was too distorted."

Interesting; I hadn't heard that particular twist before.

Twinkle wrote:

ellejay wrote:
--from link:

"According to the report, prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazepam, medications that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients."

--i wonder why he had been prescribed those 2 drugs, or what Adderall and/or Temazepam are generally used for?

--i could also care less about the medical report and george's injuries-----that's what can happen when you track an innocent teen who ends up in a fight for his life against the lunatic who should not have been following and hunting him down in the 1st place.

Through the magic of google...

Adderall --> commonly used to treat ADHD

Temazepam --> commonly used to treat insomnia

I have taken Adderall for years, as an adult w/ADHD it has the least side effects & probably the most widely prescribed, although the most expensive. I used to take ritilan, much less expensive, but has a lot more side effects & the medication doesn't last as long, fewer hours so you have to take more medicaion. There are no generics for Adderall, I don't know about temazepam, but there are many sleep medications including ambien, trazadone, etc.

DebFrmHell wrote:I was looking over the 8 page doc that was released with the witness list. Angela Corey was assigned that case on March 23, 2012 as close as I can determine through Google search. Everyone complained that SDP wasn't doing anything.

On Page 4, there is a list of police reports that were generated by them that total 76 pages and a vast majority (36) were by Chris Serino up until March 22nd.

This part of your post just sunk in....great point! And indeed, at the press conference announcing her intent to press charges against GZ, Angela Corey herself went out of her way to say that she took over an active investigation from the SPD and was building on the work that they had started.

DebFrmHell wrote:

Twinkle wrote:

DebFrmHell wrote:The news releases seem to be favoring the Defense side. I am ready to see what supports the Prosecution now.

....which kind of begs the question: is O'Mara leaking all this information?

I would think that is entirely possible/probable. Especially since some of the autopsy results contradict the Mortician that was put on TV by Crump and Co.These guys are playahs!

DebFrmHell, are you talking about the guy that was on Nancy Grace that she rapid fired her questions to? imo, that guy seemed confused as if he didn't understand the questions although he was polite. He said "he didn't notice anything on Trayvon's hands/knuckles" but GZ got his wounds somehow, especially the 2 black eyes. The Medical examiner's autopsy is the legal document that will be used in court because they are performed by Medical Drs. as we know, unless the Mortician documented his opinion by pictures, etc., seems it too is not going to be anything that makes it to the trial.. Morticians are not qualified to do autopies & offering opinions are not evidence. I would think any brusing on Trayvon's hands would be difficult to see by a Mortician. imo, if I had been Trayvon's parent's, I might have opted to PAY for a 2nd autopsy. Sometimes, you get the same result in the 2nd autopsy but sometimes a 2nd autopsy finds additional information, it is an option.

I am curious about those making TV appearances, in KC's case, very few of those that sold stories or appeared on HLN testified at trial. Padilla, Tracy, Rob Dick, Jesse, his dad, Tim Miller, Kio Marie, Kronk's ex wives, are just a few that come to mind.

Tonight the female attorney for Trayvon's family was complaining on JVM about GZ's wounds & Mark Iglarsh told her she was wrong, that GZ's medical information is going to come into the case as part of his defense.

DebFrmHell wrote:GZ hasn't really said much of anything out of his own mouth. The only time we have heard him speak is at the bond hearing. ((Not a success story and he fell right into the trap set by de la Rionda. That was great lawyering, IMO, because it got him into a different scope for questioning. He took the risk and it didn't pay off.))

Until I read his actual statement(s) I will be content to wait.

From Freckles

Deb-
You lost me with this:
"Apparently, you are willing believe that part of their statements but you want to inject a phone call. It seems you want it both ways."

Huh?

You have him calling people after the shot. You have him calling Taafe to head off TM at the pass before the shot. You need some evidence to back that. Even just a thread of evidence to get to this point. There is nothing to support anything like this scenario.

Do you know where Taafe lives in that complex? I am just wondering because I have no clue. If GZ is on the phone with 911, when do you think he could have even called Taafe?

Regardless, Taafe still has to leave his house, drive to the approximate area where GZ is in order to do this. If his car is garaged...even longer. Plus, the shooting happened within a minute or so after GZ disconnected from Dispatch.

So now, we not only have to have a verbal confrontation, a chase down, a scuffle, and a shooting within a limited time frame of a minute. Taafe is a non-issue to me simply because of the time it would take to place him there.

That is not to say there won't be but it is a HUGE leap to go there on your own at this point in time because you want it to be.



IMO.

Hi, Deb!
Feel miserable about so much left at THM. I did see a map posted there early on showing where GZ lived and FT. I don't save links so, of course, there is nothing. IIRC, they both lived in the same section of the development.

I would like to see GZ' phone records. It would answers a lot of questions for me.
Yes; I think there is a possibility GZ may have called his friend BEFORE he called dispatch. I would like to know who GZ asked to call his wife, Shelly. It had to be some person who already knew her number. Neither GZ and pic taker have stated GZ gave the number to call; he simply asked her to be notified GZ had shot someone. IMO, GZ may have called his father immediately after the shooting while the pic taker was calling the wife on a different cell phone.

We will have to wait and see what comes out--- if it is even addressed during the trial.

So this is what I see in re to GZ:
GZ called FT to help him capture.head off a "young punk"
GZ called PD to report the "suspicious" behavior of Trayvon
GZ asked the pic taker to call his wife while
GZ called his father to ask him to meet him at PD
( GZ was handcuffed, he could not call after PD arrived or before arriving at PD station.)

(No link but I did read father of GZ was at the PD station @ the time GZ arrived.
I have no problem with GZ notifying his father. GZ IS entitled to legal counsel,advise and who better than his own father? Further, he would need a ride home. )

IMO there are very experienced gamers at work here. Special Prosecutor Angela Corey publishes a 8 page list of all the evidence supplied to the defense. Puts the pressure on the defense by making media aware of the vast amount of evidence available. MOM responds with a proverbial shrug...yeah 67 CDs of info but I haven't looked at it yet. Like he he is too busy working on some other case to have even a minion in his office start working on it. Yet the next day all of the commentary from his office are only the bits that support any type of defense position. As MOM didn't want the release of case details to the media, I imagine he will take his sweet time. And continue to release only those bits that provide a positive spin for JoeG.

Q: How long after receipt by the defense must evidence be released to the media?

Twinkle wrote:

ellejay wrote:
--from link:

"According to the report, prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazepam, medications that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients."

--i wonder why he had been prescribed those 2 drugs, or what Adderall and/or Temazepam are generally used for?

--i could also care less about the medical report and george's injuries-----that's what can happen when you track an innocent teen who ends up in a fight for his life against the lunatic who should not have been following and hunting him down in the 1st place.

Through the magic of google...

Adderall --> commonly used to treat ADHD

Temazepam --> commonly used to treat insomnia

You are correct, another name for temazepam is Restoril a sleeping pill, so I am thinking he probably didn't have that one in his system at that time

The SPD video ABC News aired last night raised serious doubts about Zimmerman’s account of a life-and-death struggle. Then, Richard Kurtz, the funeral director of the mortuary that received Trayvon’s body, stepped forward last night on MSNBC’s “The Last Word” to knock another huge hole in Zimmerman’s story. The unarmed 17-year-old showed no signs of struggle.

According to Zimmerman, Trayvon clocked him in the face and felled him with one punch. Trayvon then jumped on top of him and then repeatedly banged Zimmerman’s head on the sidewalk. That’s what the police told Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father. But when O’Donnell asked Kurtz if Trayvon’s body showed any signs that would support that version of events, Kurtz said, “I didn’t see anything to support that story.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/george-zimmermans-crumbling-story-part-2-the-mortician/2012/03/29/gIQAaOwsiS_blog.html

This guy was not confused. It was covered by many of the MSM and it was another spin coming from the Crump Team. He appeared on TV around March 29th, just days after A Corey took over the investigation. I believe it was just another point that was "misrepresented" to assign more guilt to George Zimmerman. The Trial of the Century as Played by the Press...

I have been extremely PO'd and very vocal about being played by the media for the last 6 weeks. Who do you think was leaking information that strictly favored TM? Who gave Richard Kurtz permission to discuss the condition of Trayvon Martin's body? IIRC, it was shortly after this that the leaks started about TMs actions at school, most likely from someone in the SPD, which spun onto something like he was suspended for tardiness spoken by some teacher, which spun into deeper details, and so on and so on and so on.

Since the arrest, leaks have ruled both MSM and the net. From both sides...neither is a lamb here.

I have had more than one person say I am out of line for suggesting that Crump would do something like this. That he would take advantage of grieving parents to further his agenda.

He needed to get national exposure. He played the race card via Sharpton and Jackson to do so and makes no apologies for it. I think his quote was something like "I did what I had to do." I understand the reasoning behind it but I will never accept the tactics. Ever.

All IMO. And sorry for the mini-rant. I deleted half of it, BTW.

[quote="DebFrmHell"]

The SPD video ABC News aired last night raised serious doubts about Zimmerman’s account of a life-and-death struggle. Then, Richard Kurtz, the funeral director of the mortuary that received Trayvon’s body, stepped forward last night on MSNBC’s “The Last Word” to knock another huge hole in Zimmerman’s story. The unarmed 17-year-old showed no signs of struggle.

According to Zimmerman, Trayvon clocked him in the face and felled him with one punch. Trayvon then jumped on top of him and then repeatedly banged Zimmerman’s head on the sidewalk. That’s what the police told Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father. But when O’Donnell asked Kurtz if Trayvon’s body showed any signs that would support that version of events, Kurtz said, “I didn’t see anything to support that story.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/george-zimmermans-crumbling-story-part-2-the-mortician/2012/03/29/gIQAaOwsiS_blog.html

This guy was not confused. It was covered by many of the MSM and it was another spin coming from the Crump Team. He appeared on TV around March 29th, just days after A Corey took over the investigation. I believe it was just another point that was "misrepresented" to assign more guilt to George Zimmerman. The Trial of the Century as Played by the Press...

I have been extremely PO'd and very vocal about being played by the media for the last 6 weeks. Who do you think was leaking information that strictly favored TM? Who gave Richard Kurtz permission to discuss the condition of Trayvon Martin's body? IIRC, it was shortly after this that the leaks started about TMs actions at school, most likely from someone in the SPD, which spun onto something like he was suspended for tardiness spoken by some teacher, which spun into deeper details, and so on and so on and so on.

Since the arrest, leaks have ruled both MSM and the net. From both sides...neither is a lamb here.

I have had more than one person say I am out of line for suggesting that Crump would do something like this. That he would take advantage of grieving parents to further his agenda.

He needed to get national exposure. He played the race card via Sharpton and Jackson to do so and makes no apologies for it. I think his quote was something like "I did what I had to do." I understand the reasoning behind it but I will never accept the tactics. Ever.

All IMO. And sorry for the mini-rant. I deleted half of it, BTW.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Deb, I agree with your thoughts, sadly, many have agendas in this case. The point I was making is that it would be nearly impossible to see any brusing on trayvon's hands because his hands are so dark, bruises are dark, imo, very hard to detect.

imo, many criticize the Defense Fund for GZ but, because Sharpton/Jesse Jackson made this case about race, some take issue with that, they are tired of seeing this over & over from these 2, their agendas as always promoting themselves.

Thomas Sewall, a brillant black columnist wrote a great article today about the unfairness in the media of the attacks on innocent victim's & the MEDIA is choosing NOT to report it. imo, the MEDIA has mucked this case up from the very beginning, they continue to, the public is going to continue to be played sadly.

marcena2 wrote:IMO there are very experienced gamers at work here. Special Prosecutor Angela Corey publishes a 8 page list of all the evidence supplied to the defense. Puts the pressure on the defense by making media aware of the vast amount of evidence available. MOM responds with a proverbial shrug...yeah 67 CDs of info but I haven't looked at it yet. Like he he is too busy working on some other case to have even a minion in his office start working on it. Yet the next day all of the commentary from his office are only the bits that support any type of defense position. As MOM didn't want the release of case details to the media, I imagine he will take his sweet time. And continue to release only those bits that provide a positive spin for JoeG.

Q: How long after receipt by the defense must evidence be released to the media?

it appears that under the sunshine laws, once the discovery is provided to the defense, it must also be turned over to the public, as it loses its exempt status as criminal intelligence or investigative information unless the Court has issued an order that the discovery may be withheld under one of the following circumstances:

1) If the information would reveal the identity of a victim of a sexual offense or child abuse pursuant to s. 119.071(2)(h), F.S.; or

2) If a court order has been issued finding that release of the information prior to trial would:

a) be defamatory to the good name of a victim or witness or jeopardize the safety of a victim or witness; and

b) impair the ability of a state attorney to locate or prosecute a codefendant.

It would appear to me that since O'Mara hasn't filed a motion to withhold the discovery from being released to the public it has now lost its exempt status and should be turned over at request. So, unless I am missing something....

For more info, see: http://www.myflsunshine.com/sun.nsf/manual/1BB05D142D8E4724852566F3006C7A1A

DebFrmHell wrote:

The SPD video ABC News aired last night raised serious doubts about Zimmerman’s account of a life-and-death struggle. Then, Richard Kurtz, the funeral director of the mortuary that received Trayvon’s body, stepped forward last night on MSNBC’s “The Last Word” to knock another huge hole in Zimmerman’s story. The unarmed 17-year-old showed no signs of struggle.

According to Zimmerman, Trayvon clocked him in the face and felled him with one punch. Trayvon then jumped on top of him and then repeatedly banged Zimmerman’s head on the sidewalk. That’s what the police told Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father. But when O’Donnell asked Kurtz if Trayvon’s body showed any signs that would support that version of events, Kurtz said, “I didn’t see anything to support that story.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/george-zimmermans-crumbling-story-part-2-the-mortician/2012/03/29/gIQAaOwsiS_blog.html

This guy was not confused. It was covered by many of the MSM and it was another spin coming from the Crump Team. He appeared on TV around March 29th, just days after A Corey took over the investigation. I believe it was just another point that was "misrepresented" to assign more guilt to George Zimmerman. The Trial of the Century as Played by the Press...

I have been extremely PO'd and very vocal about being played by the media for the last 6 weeks. Who do you think was leaking information that strictly favored TM? Who gave Richard Kurtz permission to discuss the condition of Trayvon Martin's body? IIRC, it was shortly after this that the leaks started about TMs actions at school, most likely from someone in the SPD, which spun onto something like he was suspended for tardiness spoken by some teacher, which spun into deeper details, and so on and so on and so on.

Since the arrest, leaks have ruled both MSM and the net. From both sides...neither is a lamb here.

I have had more than one person say I am out of line for suggesting that Crump would do something like this. That he would take advantage of grieving parents to further his agenda.

He needed to get national exposure. He played the race card via Sharpton and Jackson to do so and makes no apologies for it. I think his quote was something like "I did what I had to do." I understand the reasoning behind it but I will never accept the tactics. Ever.

All IMO. And sorry for the mini-rant. I deleted half of it, BTW.

Patricia Jones, who happens to be a lawyer, is also Tracy Martin's sister in law, he reached out to her when the Sanford Police told him that they couldn't arrest Zimmerman because he had invoked the Florida Stand Your Ground Law and there wasn't evidence to contradict his story that he acted in self defense when he killed his son. Patricia Jones was the one who got in touch with Benjamin crump, who is very well known as a civil rights attorney, and put him in contact with Trayvon's parents.

Temazepam is approved for the short-term treatment of insomnia. In addition, temazepam has anxiolytic (anti-anxiety), anticonvulsant, and skeletal muscle relaxant properties.
Perhaps prescribed to offset the side effects (insomnia, anxiety), of Adderall?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temazepam

Most of the leaks to date have been pro-Prosecution, IMO. Now we will have to deal with the order in which the Defense releases the discovery. The pendulum is swinging the other way now.

It is up to people who read/watch the news, read the blogs, etc to determine what facts they choose to absorb and whether or not they can put aside misinformation and open their minds to other possiblities.

The Media has taken away our right to objectivity by playing pandering to groups, be it the Radical Right or The Radical Left, that don't have the good conscience to give people enough information from both sides to formulate their own opinions.

I find that sad in its own right.

[quote="art tart"]

DebFrmHell wrote:

The SPD video ABC News aired last night raised serious doubts about Zimmerman’s account of a life-and-death struggle. Then, Richard Kurtz, the funeral director of the mortuary that received Trayvon’s body, stepped forward last night on MSNBC’s “The Last Word” to knock another huge hole in Zimmerman’s story. The unarmed 17-year-old showed no signs of struggle.

According to Zimmerman, Trayvon clocked him in the face and felled him with one punch. Trayvon then jumped on top of him and then repeatedly banged Zimmerman’s head on the sidewalk. That’s what the police told Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father. But when O’Donnell asked Kurtz if Trayvon’s body showed any signs that would support that version of events, Kurtz said, “I didn’t see anything to support that story.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/george-zimmermans-crumbling-story-part-2-the-mortician/2012/03/29/gIQAaOwsiS_blog.html

This guy was not confused. It was covered by many of the MSM and it was another spin coming from the Crump Team. He appeared on TV around March 29th, just days after A Corey took over the investigation. I believe it was just another point that was "misrepresented" to assign more guilt to George Zimmerman. The Trial of the Century as Played by the Press...

I have been extremely PO'd and very vocal about being played by the media for the last 6 weeks. Who do you think was leaking information that strictly favored TM? Who gave Richard Kurtz permission to discuss the condition of Trayvon Martin's body? IIRC, it was shortly after this that the leaks started about TMs actions at school, most likely from someone in the SPD, which spun onto something like he was suspended for tardiness spoken by some teacher, which spun into deeper details, and so on and so on and so on.

Since the arrest, leaks have ruled both MSM and the net. From both sides...neither is a lamb here.

I have had more than one person say I am out of line for suggesting that Crump would do something like this. That he would take advantage of grieving parents to further his agenda.

He needed to get national exposure. He played the race card via Sharpton and Jackson to do so and makes no apologies for it. I think his quote was something like "I did what I had to do." I understand the reasoning behind it but I will never accept the tactics. Ever.

All IMO. And sorry for the mini-rant. I deleted half of it, BTW.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Deb, I agree with your thoughts, sadly, many have agendas in this case. The point I was making is that it would be nearly impossible to see any brusing on trayvon's hands because his hands are so dark, bruises are dark, imo, very hard to detect.

imo, many criticize the Defense Fund for GZ but, because Sharpton/Jesse Jackson made this case about race, some take issue with that, they are tired of seeing this over & over from these 2, their agendas as always promoting themselves.

Thomas Sewall, a brillant black columnist wrote a great article today about the unfairness in the media of the attacks on innocent victim's & the MEDIA is choosing NOT to report it. imo, the MEDIA has mucked this case up from the very beginning, they continue to, the public is going to continue to be played sadly.

Do you have a link I can read later? I tried googling around and couldn't find it and I would very much like to read it.

Thank you!

personally, I wouldn't care if Zimmerman had to be carried to the ER on that night, it doesn't prove contrary to the obvious. Zimmerman pursued Trayvon and Trayvon had every right to defend himself. Why would it be consistant with self defense? Trayvon didn't follow Zimmerman, Zimmerman came after Trayvon and Trayvon had every right to fight for HIS life.

If Zimmerman claims (which he has stated) that Trayvon tried to get his gun, than it's obvious that Trayvon DID see the gun, which would make it obvious that Trayvon was SHG.

I would also like to know the time of day (the next day) that Zimmerman went to the hospital. With these type of injuries I would think that he would have been taken by ambulance that same night.

Also, the report shows that the ER doctor advised Zimmerman to see a psyche, gee did the doctor pick up on something? Just by Zimmerman vomiting wouldn't suggest to the doctor that he needed to see a psyche. People vomit after a car accident, or a fall.

By no means does this show self defence on Zimmermans part, but more so on Trayvons part. IF, Trayvon beat Zimmerman, he well deserved it and Trayvon should certainly be exonerated by SYG law, which would put Zimmerman back in the seat of murder two.

Gizmo711 wrote:

derisory wrote:I've been away for a while so don't know what is happening with this case. Hope ppl have calmed down somewhat and are allowing the case to be dealt with within the system rather than through the media.

I'm not for any case being dealt with thru the media. But thank goodness for the media, or we would never know anything about such cases and everything would be swept under the carpet.

I couldn't agree more. It's a double edged sword. It was largely due to the media interest in kc ant's case that brought forth the pro bono lawyers and ABC giving her $200 000 for photos. I guess this issue is highly debatable, but if it wasn't for the media and our public interest then kc ant would very likely have passed through the justice system in the same way that other parents guilty of abuse or filicide do ... and now instead of freedom would be living her life in prison.

..... but then, if it wasn't for the media and public interest ... and I guess sunshine laws, there would't be the same level of transparency and the issue of whether GZ is or isn't responsible for TMs death would now be a non-issue because in the beginning GZs story was taken at face value.

Whatever took place that night, if Trayvon thru the first punch, if Trayvon broke his nose etc., etc., Trayvon had every right. If I thought I wasn't able to get away from someone following me the next best thing is to fight for your life. If there had been a rock in the vicinity, I wouldn't wrong Trayvon for picking it up and using it against his attacker.

It's very obvious to see what took place here. Zimmerman was following Trayvon for no apparent reason and Trayvon feared for his life. Trayvon tried to make it home without his stalker seeing where he was staying. Zimmerman, was determined to catch Trayvon (for what ever notion he had embedded in his brain), and they met. Trayvon saw the gun (which is why Zimmerman claims that Trayvon tried to get it from him) and Trayvon put up the best fight that he could to protect himself.

Now, had Zimmerman NOT profiled Trayvon and followed him, and ended up chasing him (911 tapes prove that), than this mishap would never have happened. Zimmerman could NOT say he was defending himself against Trayvon under any circumstances. It was Trayvon whom was defending himself against a stalker. So if Zimmerman got beat up, he well deserved it, and he also deserves to be put on trial for murder because he did infact murder this young man who was defending himself against an attacker and just because Trayvon lost the battle with his life does NOT make Zimmerman the hero that he portrays himself as.

And to use a school suspension to justify and portray Trayvon as a bad teenager is ludicrous.

Gia wrote:

Gizmo711 wrote:

derisory wrote:I've been away for a while so don't know what is happening with this case. Hope ppl have calmed down somewhat and are allowing the case to be dealt with within the system rather than through the media.

I'm not for any case being dealt with thru the media. But thank goodness for the media, or we would never know anything about such cases and everything would be swept under the carpet.

I couldn't agree more. It's a double edged sword. It was largely due to the media interest in kc ant's case that brought forth the pro bono lawyers and ABC giving her $200 000 for photos. I guess this issue is highly debatable, but if it wasn't for the media and our public interest then kc ant would very likely have passed through the justice system in the same way that other parents guilty of abuse or filicide do ... and now instead of freedom would be living her life in prison.

..... but then, if it wasn't for the media and public interest ... and I guess sunshine laws, there would't be the same level of transparency and the issue of whether GZ is or isn't responsible for TMs death would now be a non-issue because in the beginning GZs story was taken at face value.

That is why we have freedom of the press. If it weren't for the media I can only imagine how many innocent people would go to jail and how many guilty people would just walk away from a crime. We would turn into a "police state", we would need no courts or jurors, just leave it to the police. This is the very reason why police now have video's in their cars, because they were believed and some poor jerk either was killed or went to jail for no reason. We have come along way since those days and would never want to go back to them. Yes, the media gets alot of things wrong and will report things that just weren't true. However, when we hear 911 tapes, it is plainly obvious what took place on this nite, this would have nothing to do with the media blowing things out of proportion. THe media can't really add of deduct anything from these tapes to change the facts.

And hi Gia, glad we found this site.... and I just love these icons....

http://www.wdbo.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN7FM/

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/autopsy-results-for-trayvon-martin-released

Apparently two injuries on Trayvon, gunshot and bloody knuckles!

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/15/911-calls-from-isabel-celis-case-released/?hpt=ng_bn1
CNN - Nancy Grace

Tonight, 5-16-12, at 8 and 10 pm EDT

Sources: Zimmerman had broken nose

CNN sources: Medical report by George Zimmerman's family doctor allegedly shows he suffered a broken nose, two black eyes and two lacerations to the back of his head after he shot & killed Trayvon Martin. What will this mean for his defense

What I don't understand is why Trayvons bruises to his hands aren't considered "defense wounds". In any other scenerio, the first thing that is looked for are defense wounds. If a woman is murdered, they look for DNA under her finger nails. In any other attack they always search for defense wounds.

I consider the wounds on Trayvons knuckles "defense wounds" and seeing as the prosecution had these reports in front of them when determining whether to press charges on Zimmerman or not, they also feel that way.

Trayvon would have to be mentally ill or something if he didn't try to fight for his life. Obviously he fought with all he had in him. Too bad he didn't succeed and over power Zimmerman. But then again Zimmerman had the upper hand, he had a weapon.

This is in no way a self defense case. It is a stalker getting his butt whipped and only ended up winning because he shot the victim dead.

I still would like to knoe exactly what time that Zimmerman went to the hospital the next day to be examined? Was it after he found out that Trayvon had every right to be where he was?

art tart wrote:
Thomas Sewall, a brillant black columnist wrote a great article today about the unfairness in the media of the attacks on innocent victim's & the MEDIA is choosing NOT to report it. imo, the MEDIA has mucked this case up from the very beginning, they continue to, the public is going to continue to be played sadly.

Here's a link to that article: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/297172/racism-and-george-zimmerman-thomas-sowell

Freckles wrote:
Feel miserable about so much left at THM. I did see a map posted there early on showing where GZ lived and FT. I don't save links so, of course, there is nothing. IIRC, they both lived in the same section of the development.

Freckles,

I saved some of the links when the story first broke. This link has a detailed time line and a number of the maps of locations where events happened. It may have the map you are looking for. http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/