Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #1

by angela_nw Wed May 23, 2012 2:31 am

Freckles wrote:
Wonderful find.
Can someone post a pic of page two of this link? It has an excellent map.
To get there, click on the letter Angela shared.

Freckles - I did not mean to load up my whole photobucket album - just the witness page from the pdf. I do not want to post those maps because a lot more info has come out since I found them and they might be misleading. If I have some time tomorrow I'll fuss with the map and add the new information although I could not tell from the photos where some of the evidence was found... maybe someone can help me with that.

by Gizmo711 Wed May 23, 2012 5:23 am

Freckles wrote:
angela_nw wrote:

(Cutcher &) Lamilla statement 2/26/12

I am not sure where to find their statements from 3/1 and 3/2??
Wonderful find.
Can someone post a pic of page two of this link? It has an excellent map.
To get there, click on the letter Angela shared.

It almost seems to me that Zimmerman shot Trayvon while he was on top of him. Then he reached under to feel his pulse in Trayvons neck to see if he was dead before he got up off of him. This would explain why there was no flow of blood on Zimmerman. This would change everything. The only problem would be is how did Trayvon end up face down. Unless when Zimmerman may have gotten off of him, Trayvon was still alive enough to turn himself over. At which point Zimmerman got back on top of him to feel for a pulse.

It's so obvious that Zimmerman did not try to give CPR or anything, it's like he just killed an anilmal in his eyes.

Can't wait for the rest of the docs to come out.

by CherokeeNative Wed May 23, 2012 10:25 am

Summary of changes made by witnesses:
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/mason/43335/three-more-witnesses-change-stories-in-zimmerman-case

Witness 6 is the only person who claimed to have seen Zimmerman calling for help, other than Zimmerman, of course. Other witnesses say it sounded like a young boy pleading for help.

He also is the only witness who supported Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon was hitting him, although Zimmerman mostly claimed that Trayvon was bashing his head against the sidewalk.

Witness 6's recantation hurts Zimmerman's case badly.

Witness 2's identification of Zimmerman being on top after the shot hurts Zimmerman because he told the police was on the bottom fighting for his life when he shot Trayvon.

Another witness, who saw the shooting from her upstairs bedroom, said the heavier built man was on top when the shot was fired and he stood up and walked 10 -20 feet away after the shot. She is one of several witnesses who say that the cries for help were uttered by the boy, not the heavier built man.

by KZ Wed May 23, 2012 12:12 pm

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/general_lifestyle/may_2012/40_now_say_trayvon_martin_shot_in_self_defense_24_say_it_was_murder

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 24% of American Adults still believe the man who shot Martin should be found guilty of murder. But that’s down from 33% in late March when the case first began to draw national headlines and 30% in early April.

Forty percent (40%) now think George Zimmerman, who has been charged with second degree murder in the Martin shooting, acted in self-defense.
(More at link)

by ellejay Wed May 23, 2012 12:40 pm

Gizmo711 wrote:

It almost seems to me that Zimmerman shot Trayvon while he was on top of him. Then he reached under to feel his pulse in Trayvons neck to see if he was dead before he got up off of him. This would explain why there was no flow of blood on Zimmerman. This would change everything. The only problem would be is how did Trayvon end up face down. Unless when Zimmerman may have gotten off of him, Trayvon was still alive enough to turn himself over. At which point Zimmerman got back on top of him to feel for a pulse.

It's so obvious that Zimmerman did not try to give CPR or anything, it's like he just killed an anilmal in his eyes.

Can't wait for the rest of the docs to come out.

--trayvon was shot through 2 layers of clothing, his nike sweatshirt and his hoodie. there wouldn't have been a "flow of blood" on george if trayvon had been shot while "on top".

--also---on george's jacket, blood stains "N" and "U" (the size of the stains isn't listed) include trayvon's DNA.

--stain "N"---demonstrates the presence of 2 individuals
--major contributor--george
--minor contributor--trayvon

--stain "U"---demonstrates the presence of 2 individuals
--major/minor contributors could not be determined
--trayvon included as a possible contributor to the mixed DNA profile
--no determination can be made if george is a contributor to the mixed DNA profile

--what we do need (imo) is a more detailed report on GSR.

--so far all we have is that there is GSR around the holes on trayvon's sweatshirt and hoodie..."both holes display residues and physical effects consistant w/ a contact shot".
--and "one particle of lead" on george's jacket --on the "upper back portion of the right sleeve".

--surely there has to be more GSR than that? on george's hands for example...any on his shoes would indicate if he was standing while firing the gun...etc.

--yep, we need more docs.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf
--discovery
--GSR--page 122
--blood stains on jacket--page 113

by Porky Wed May 23, 2012 12:49 pm

When this story first broke, I always suspected that Zimmerman had some kind of relationship with the Sanford Police because there were a lot of things that were fishy at the scene. That answer came to fruition today.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html

by Porky Wed May 23, 2012 12:55 pm

Recall that someone questioned why the girl took so long to testify. I just learned that(as I suspected) that it was her parents who did not want her caught up in this. I will post the actual link soon.

by Gizmo711 Wed May 23, 2012 1:06 pm

ellejay wrote:
Gizmo711 wrote:

It almost seems to me that Zimmerman shot Trayvon while he was on top of him. Then he reached under to feel his pulse in Trayvons neck to see if he was dead before he got up off of him. This would explain why there was no flow of blood on Zimmerman. This would change everything. The only problem would be is how did Trayvon end up face down. Unless when Zimmerman may have gotten off of him, Trayvon was still alive enough to turn himself over. At which point Zimmerman got back on top of him to feel for a pulse.

It's so obvious that Zimmerman did not try to give CPR or anything, it's like he just killed an anilmal in his eyes.

Can't wait for the rest of the docs to come out.

--trayvon was shot through 2 layers of clothing, his nike sweatshirt and his hoodie. there wouldn't have been a "flow of blood" on george if trayvon had been shot while "on top".

--also---on george's jacket, blood stains "N" and "U" (the size of the stains isn't listed) include trayvon's DNA.

--stain "N"---demonstrates the presence of 2 individuals
--major contributor--george
--minor contributor--trayvon

--stain "U"---demonstrates the presence of 2 individuals
--major/minor contributors could not be determined
--trayvon included as a possible contributor to the mixed DNA profile
--no determination can be made if george is a contributor to the mixed DNA profile

--what we do need (imo) is a more detailed report on GSR.

--so far all we have is that there is GSR around the holes on trayvon's sweatshirt and hoodie..."both holes display residues and physical effects consistant w/ a contact shot".
--and "one particle of lead" on george's jacket --on the "upper back portion of the right sleeve".

--surely there has to be more GSR than that? on george's hands for example...any on his shoes would indicate if he was standing while firing the gun...etc.

--yep, we need more docs.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf
--discovery
--GSR--page 122
--blood stains on jacket--page 113

Thanks Ellejay, hopefully more docs will be realeased soon. I heard that the defense has to release some also, I wonder what they could possibly have?

by Gizmo711 Wed May 23, 2012 1:08 pm

Porky wrote:When this story first broke, I always suspected that Zimmerman had some kind of relationship with the Sanford Police because there were a lot of things that were fishy at the scene. That answer came to fruition today.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html

Many people think that. I believe that he made so many calls to the 911 where LE had to respond that they probably know him on first name bases. It was also said that the SPD thought of Zimmerman as one of their own which is why he was released so easily under the SYG law. I hope it will all come out eventually.

by ellejay Wed May 23, 2012 1:13 pm

Porky wrote:When this story first broke, I always suspected that Zimmerman had some kind of relationship with the Sanford Police because there were a lot of things that were fishy at the scene. That answer came to fruition today.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html

--snipped from above article:

--more@link--

A year before George Zimmerman killed a Miami Gardens teenager, he stood before a City Hall community forum with a grievance: Sanford cops are lazy, he told the then-mayor elect.

And he should know: Zimmerman, a community college criminal justice major, said he went on ride-alongs with the Sanford Police.

“And what I saw was disgusting,” Zimmerman said, according to a recording of the January 2011 meeting obtained by The Miami Herald. “The officer showed me his favorite hiding spots for taking naps, explained to me that he doesn’t carry a long gun in his vehicle because, in his words, ‘anything that requires a long gun requires a lot of paperwork, and you’re going to find me as far away from it.’

“He took two lunch breaks and attended a going-away party for one of his fellow officers.”

---hmmm, so is this why george continued on after the "real suspicious guy"---he probably couldn't count on the "lazy SPD" so sergeant wanna-be decided to not let this one get away on his own?

by ellejay Wed May 23, 2012 1:24 pm

Gizmo711 wrote:

Thanks Ellejay, hopefully more docs will be realeased soon. I heard that the defense has to release some also, I wonder what they could possibly have?

--it's "reciprocal discovery", anything either side has/gets has to be given to the "other side". ( whether it favours them or not, and to avoid blind-siding @ trial..)

--the defense has their investigator(s) also---by now they will at least have some of their own witness statements, probably stmts from family/friends/co-workers etc, and then they will get their own expert testimony on everything (voice analysis, etc..)..etc etc etc...

--both sides can end up w/ a ton of discovery (at least based on what we've seen in other cases..) as time goes on...

by Guest Wed May 23, 2012 1:28 pm

ellejay shared:

--it's "reciprocal discovery", anything either side has/gets has to be given to the "other side". ( whether it favours them or not, and to avoid blind-siding @ trial..)

--the defense has their investigator(s) also---by now they will at least have some of their own witness statements, probably stmts from family/friends/co-workers etc, and then they will get their own expert testimony on everything (voice analysis, etc..)..

--both sides can end up w/ a ton of discovery (at least based on what we've seen in other cases..) as time goes on...

ellejay, I thought the defense ONLY had to turn over what they planned to use at trial. Anything not favorable to the Defense that they pay for, they shread, they continue to look for an expert that supports their position.

Of course the State has a different standard in Fla.

by DebFrmHell Wed May 23, 2012 1:34 pm

ellejay wrote:
Gizmo711 wrote:

It almost seems to me that Zimmerman shot Trayvon while he was on top of him. Then he reached under to feel his pulse in Trayvons neck to see if he was dead before he got up off of him. This would explain why there was no flow of blood on Zimmerman. This would change everything. The only problem would be is how did Trayvon end up face down. Unless when Zimmerman may have gotten off of him, Trayvon was still alive enough to turn himself over. At which point Zimmerman got back on top of him to feel for a pulse.

It's so obvious that Zimmerman did not try to give CPR or anything, it's like he just killed an anilmal in his eyes.

Can't wait for the rest of the docs to come out.

--trayvon was shot through 2 layers of clothing, his nike sweatshirt and his hoodie. there wouldn't have been a "flow of blood" on george if trayvon had been shot while "on top".

--also---on george's jacket, blood stains "N" and "U" (the size of the stains isn't listed) include trayvon's DNA.

--stain "N"---demonstrates the presence of 2 individuals
--major contributor--george
--minor contributor--trayvon

--stain "U"---demonstrates the presence of 2 individuals
--major/minor contributors could not be determined
--trayvon included as a possible contributor to the mixed DNA profile
--no determination can be made if george is a contributor to the mixed DNA profile

--what we do need (imo) is a more detailed report on GSR.

--so far all we have is that there is GSR around the holes on trayvon's sweatshirt and hoodie..."both holes display residues and physical effects consistant w/ a contact shot".
--and "one particle of lead" on george's jacket --on the "upper back portion of the right sleeve".

--surely there has to be more GSR than that? on george's hands for example...any on his shoes would indicate if he was standing while firing the gun...etc.

--yep, we need more docs.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf
--discovery
--GSR--page 122
--blood stains on jacket--page 113

I think the lack of DNA may have been because a combination of the wet grass and the rain. IIRC, there is some of Georges DNA on the cuff of the inside sleeve of the shirt that TM was wearing but not the hoodie.

There is some confusion there because ME-8 and ME-12 are weird in there. There is a descrepancy.

by DebFrmHell Wed May 23, 2012 1:36 pm

art tart wrote:
ellejay shared:

--it's "reciprocal discovery", anything either side has/gets has to be given to the "other side". ( whether it favours them or not, and to avoid blind-siding @ trial..)

--the defense has their investigator(s) also---by now they will at least have some of their own witness statements, probably stmts from family/friends/co-workers etc, and then they will get their own expert testimony on everything (voice analysis, etc..)..

--both sides can end up w/ a ton of discovery (at least based on what we've seen in other cases..) as time goes on...

ellejay, I thought the defense ONLY had to turn over what they planned to use at trial. Anything not favorable to the Defense that they pay for, they shread, they continue to look for an expert that supports their position.

Of course the State has a different standard in Fla.

I know (HA! ?) that they have to turn over their witness list.

by ellejay Wed May 23, 2012 1:57 pm

art tart wrote:
ellejay shared:

--it's "reciprocal discovery", anything either side has/gets has to be given to the "other side". ( whether it favours them or not, and to avoid blind-siding @ trial..)

--the defense has their investigator(s) also---by now they will at least have some of their own witness statements, probably stmts from family/friends/co-workers etc, and then they will get their own expert testimony on everything (voice analysis, etc..)..

--both sides can end up w/ a ton of discovery (at least based on what we've seen in other cases..) as time goes on...

ellejay, I thought the defense ONLY had to turn over what they planned to use at trial. Anything not favorable to the Defense that they pay for, they shread, they continue to look for an expert that supports their position.

Of course the State has a different standard in Fla.

--thanks art tart---you are right of course, the defense only has to disclose what they might use @ a hearing or trial.
--(and i have instant flashbacks of baez crying "work product"! to try to sneakily keep stuff from ashton, didn't always work..)

http://www.cobblawfirm.com/Rules_Discovery.htm
RULE 3.220. DISCOVERY

by DebFrmHell Wed May 23, 2012 2:04 pm

ellejay wrote:
Porky wrote:When this story first broke, I always suspected that Zimmerman had some kind of relationship with the Sanford Police because there were a lot of things that were fishy at the scene. That answer came to fruition today.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html

--snipped from above article:

--more@link--

A year before George Zimmerman killed a Miami Gardens teenager, he stood before a City Hall community forum with a grievance: Sanford cops are lazy, he told the then-mayor elect.

And he should know: Zimmerman, a community college criminal justice major, said he went on ride-alongs with the Sanford Police.

“And what I saw was disgusting,” Zimmerman said, according to a recording of the January 2011 meeting obtained by The Miami Herald. “The officer showed me his favorite hiding spots for taking naps, explained to me that he doesn’t carry a long gun in his vehicle because, in his words, ‘anything that requires a long gun requires a lot of paperwork, and you’re going to find me as far away from it.’

“He took two lunch breaks and attended a going-away party for one of his fellow officers.”

---hmmm, so is this why george continued on after the "real suspicious guy"---he probably couldn't count on the "lazy SPD" so sergeant wanna-be decided to not let this one get away on his own?

I am sure that the SPD "appreciated" his kind words on their job performance, too. That along with his input in the beating of that homeless man by an officers son, I think the guys last name was Collision.

As for ride alongs. Many cities have ride along programs. I did one out in CA and it was interesting and fun but I did it with one of my officer buddies. If anyone is interested they should check it out. There is paperwork, of course, so you better not have a speeding ticket outstanding!

by Puzzler Wed May 23, 2012 2:12 pm

Why are so many witnesses changing their version of "what they saw"?

by Porky Wed May 23, 2012 2:18 pm

DebFrmHell wrote:
ellejay wrote:
Porky wrote:When this story first broke, I always suspected that Zimmerman had some kind of relationship with the Sanford Police because there were a lot of things that were fishy at the scene. That answer came to fruition today.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html

--snipped from above article:

--more@link--

A year before George Zimmerman killed a Miami Gardens teenager, he stood before a City Hall community forum with a grievance: Sanford cops are lazy, he told the then-mayor elect.

And he should know: Zimmerman, a community college criminal justice major, said he went on ride-alongs with the Sanford Police.

“And what I saw was disgusting,” Zimmerman said, according to a recording of the January 2011 meeting obtained by The Miami Herald. “The officer showed me his favorite hiding spots for taking naps, explained to me that he doesn’t carry a long gun in his vehicle because, in his words, ‘anything that requires a long gun requires a lot of paperwork, and you’re going to find me as far away from it.’

“He took two lunch breaks and attended a going-away party for one of his fellow officers.”

---hmmm, so is this why george continued on after the "real suspicious guy"---he probably couldn't count on the "lazy SPD" so sergeant wanna-be decided to not let this one get away on his own?

I am sure that the SPD "appreciated" his kind words on their job performance, too. That along with his input in the beating of that homeless man by an officers son, I think the guys last name was Collision.

As for ride alongs. Many cities have ride along programs. I did one out in CA and it was interesting and fun but I did it with one of my officer buddies. If anyone is interested they should check it out. There is paperwork, of course, so you better not have a speeding ticket outstanding!

Deb the thing about this also is that at the time of the incident the Sanford Police were steadfast in their denial of knowing who Zimmerman was and also went on record as saying they had no communication with him outside of the 911 calls. This story suggests that not only did they know him but there were email exchanges between he and the very same police chief who denied knowing him. I live in a suburb of Orlando and many of us ( African Americans) here have suspected that someone at that scene made a call to "someone". But now I also question what an officer at the scene takes a phone with his cell phone of his injuries but doe snot place it in evidence, instead saving it to surface months later. I will tell you this much. I am a professional African American male and I avoid Sanford like the plague at night. There just have been too many shady things with the police there.

by ellejay Wed May 23, 2012 2:31 pm

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html

The community forum Zimmerman spoke at was called by Sanford’s mayor, Jeff Triplett, who at that time had yet to officially take office. The forum took place in the wake of a scandal involving the son of a police lieutenant, Justin Collison, who was captured on video punching a homeless man named Sherman Ware.

A month went by after the December 2010 attack before any arrests were made. On the same day 21-year-old Collison turned himself in, Police Chief Brian Tooley was forced out.

"At the community meeting, Zimmerman also raised concerns about whether [Chief ]Tooley should receive his pension.

“I would like to state that the law is written in black and white and it should not and cannot be enforced in the gray for those who are in the thin blue line,” Zimmerman said. "

--video clip at link-----george and a friend @ SPD feb.29th----his 'black eyes' appears to have cleared up, although he does have a bandage on the back of his head.

by DebFrmHell Wed May 23, 2012 2:34 pm

Puzzler wrote:Why are so many witnesses changing their version of "what they saw"?

Probably a combination of factors. Since this happened the case exploded in MSM.

It is kind of like that Effing punks for me. I couldn't determine what was said on that non-911 is was just garble... but later after the "punks" was released, I swear I could hear it clearly. I like I said at The Hinky...people hear what they expect to hear with that one.

Memories can be swayed by time and input from other sources. No doubt the media has played a huge role in this case.

John is a key witness to me and while he no longer claims to know who was yelling he still remains adamant that GZ was on the bottom and TM was on the top. W2 I never gave any credence to and I think if she had been put on the stand, her testimony would have been shredded by the defense. W12 and W13 are married to each other, apparently. And W12's statement is about GZs demeanor after the shooting.

@Porky,If all that is true and they deny knowing him, couldn't it also be a case of sour grapes that they had to release him rather than to charge him that night and continued to build a case against him in the following weeks? I would think that one or two of them would have loved to have GZ by the short hairs. Wasn't Collison's father a sergeant or at the least up from a patrol officer?

The media blitz didn't happen until a couple or three weeks afterwards.

It kind of makes you wonder. All IMO, but the police I have had for pals have very, very long memories went it comes to something as sensitive as how they perform their jobs. And I wouldn't hazzard a guess as to how they would have reacted if someone had accused them of a cover up as in the case of Collision. That is the case that GZ made flyers for and distributed within the AA community.

I have to leave and will be gone until this evening. I look forward to your input.

by Stolat Wed May 23, 2012 2:36 pm

Puzzler wrote:Why are so many witnesses changing their version of "what they saw"?

Seriously - surely it's not because they're afraid of perjury -- we've already seen that is not enforced or penalized in the Florida courts system. GZ's already done it and sailed clean away with it.

by Porky Wed May 23, 2012 2:42 pm

DebFrmHell wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Why are so many witnesses changing their version of "what they saw"?

Probably a combination of factors. Since this happened the case exploded in MSM.

It is kind of like that Effing punks for me. I couldn't determine what was said on that non-911 is was just garble... but later after the "punks" was released, I swear I could hear it clearly. I like I said at The Hinky...people hear what they expect to hear with that one.

Memories can be swayed by time and input from other sources. No doubt the media has played a huge role in this case.

John is a key witness to me and while he no longer claims to know who was yelling he still remains adamant that GZ was on the bottom and TM was on the top. W2 I never gave any credence to and I think if she had been put on the stand, her testimony would have been shredded by the defense. W12 and W13 are married to each other, apparently. And W12's statement is about GZs demeanor after the shooting.

@Porky,If all that is true and they deny knowing him, couldn't it also be a case of sour grapes that they had to release him rather than to charge him that night and continued to build a case against him in the following weeks? I would think that one or two of them would have loved to have GZ by the short hairs. Wasn't Collison's father a sergeant or at the least up from a patrol officer?

The media blitz didn't happen until a couple or three weeks afterwards.

It kind of makes you wonder. All IMO, but the police I have had for pals have very, very long memories went it comes to something as sensitive as how they perform their jobs. And I wouldn't hazzard a guess as to how they would have reacted if someone had accused them of a cover up as in the case of Collision. That is the case that GZ made flyers for and distributed within the AA community.

I have to leave and will be gone until this evening. I look forward to your input.

Deb

I suspect that some cops liked him and others did not. Another possibility is the cops may have thought that he was a pain in the ass but still a good guy in their eyes. Recall also that Sanford Police refused to release the 911 tapes. My guess is someone on that scene was looking out for him that night.

by ellejay Wed May 23, 2012 3:13 pm

--since it comes up now and again, and for the accuracy of the T/L----the media got involved about 10 days after the shooting.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403
Trayvon Martin: Before the world heard the cries

--snipped--

Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton wanted George Zimmerman arrested. They believe he stalked their son because he was black, and they were outraged that Sanford police had accepted Zimmerman's claim of self-defense.

Lee, the police chief, would contend under Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law that police could not arrest Zimmerman without evidence to contradict his story. Martin turned to Patricia Jones, his sister-in-law.

An attorney herself, she knew whom to call: Benjamin Crump, the state's best-known civil rights attorney, based in Tallahassee. Crump and law partner Daryl Parks had previously gained renown representing the family of a black teenager who died in a boot-camp-style youth detention center in 2006, winning the boy's family $7.2 million in damages from the state of Florida and Bay County.

On Tuesday, February 28, Crump was at the Duval County Courthouse in Jacksonville, about 125 miles north of Sanford, arguing that public records should be released in civil litigation over Antonio Cooks. Cooks, a black bail bondsman, had been shot and killed by Jacksonville Sheriff's Officer Jason Bailey while Cooks was serving a warrant and Bailey was responding to a burglary call.

During a break in the hearing, Crump noticed messages from Tyrone Williams, another attorney he knows, and Jones. They urgently asked for his help. Soon Jones put him in touch with Tracy Martin.

"I told him to believe in the system," Crump said of that first call. "I really believed they were going to arrest Zimmerman. I said, 'He's a neighborhood watch person with a gun. Of course they are going to arrest him just for that.'" "Then 48 hours passed and they still hadn't arrested him," Crump said. "After that we just had to do what we had to do."

He took the case pro bono. Realizing he needed a lawyer who knew Sanford and Seminole County, Crump turned to Natalie Jackson, a former Navy intelligence officer who founded the Women's Trial Group, which specializes in cases for women and children. Her mother lives in Sanford.

Now Crump and Jackson needed a media strategy. On March 5, Jackson brought in Ryan Julison, a publicist who had worked with her on a number of high-profile cases. After speaking with Tracy Martin, Julison said he also took the job for free and went to work pitching the story to national media.

Crump knew from his experience on the boot-camp case that publicity could force officials to act, but it would require persuading two people who had never stood before a television camera to withstand the spotlight.

"I got on the phone with Tracy Martin and I told him, ‘It's not going to be any fun, but this is the only way to find justice,'" Julison said. "You are going to have to bare your soul and express your emotions and your inner grief." Martin and Fulton agreed. There was only one problem. At first, the media weren't interested. Julison pitched the story to a long list of media contacts.

Eventually, on March 7, Reuters published a story titled "Family of Florida Boy Killed by Neighborhood Watch Seeks Arrest." The next day, CBS News aired a segment on "This Morning," and by 10 a.m. a crowd of reporters gathered at Natalie Jackson's law office for a news conference with Ben Crump and Tracy Martin. A media firestorm had begun.

by angela_nw Wed May 23, 2012 3:32 pm

from the article:

Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee denied at the time knowing Zimmerman, saying he had no relationship with the police department. City records show Lee exchanged emails with Zimmerman last year, when the neighborhood watch volunteer wrote to the chief to praise the department’s volunteer program coordinator.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html#storylink=cpy

I wonder if any jobs were lost/gained through Zimmerman's actions. Does somebody feel they owe him a favor? Oh to be a fly on the wall. Wonder what the general consensus at the PD station was toward this frequent caller - wonder if they felt compelled by the public to work (cooperate, tolerate?) with him, either out of embarrassment or fear of public exposure? just guesses

by Julie Wed May 23, 2012 5:27 pm

Wow, you guys are on page 50 already! awe

What will happen is the thread will keep going on it's own until about page 53 or 54, then it will automatically split itself into another thread, leaving off with page 50 on this one, and will renumber page 51 as page 1 on the next one.

At the rate you guys are going, it'll probably happen tonight, LOL, and I know you'd be wondering what happened to the first 50 pages. affraid

You'll be able to find this thread also under Awaiting Trial.

by snowbird Wed May 23, 2012 6:31 pm

Stolat wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Why are so many witnesses changing their version of "what they saw"?

Seriously - surely it's not because they're afraid of perjury -- we've already seen that is not enforced or penalized in the Florida courts system. GZ's already done it and sailed clean away with it.

Good one - Love it

by snowbird Wed May 23, 2012 6:48 pm

Porky wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:
ellejay wrote:
Porky wrote:When this story first broke, I always suspected that Zimmerman had some kind of relationship with the Sanford Police because there were a lot of things that were fishy at the scene. That answer came to fruition today.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html

--snipped from above article:

--more@link--

A year before George Zimmerman killed a Miami Gardens teenager, he stood before a City Hall community forum with a grievance: Sanford cops are lazy, he told the then-mayor elect.

And he should know: Zimmerman, a community college criminal justice major, said he went on ride-alongs with the Sanford Police.

“And what I saw was disgusting,” Zimmerman said, according to a recording of the January 2011 meeting obtained by The Miami Herald. “The officer showed me his favorite hiding spots for taking naps, explained to me that he doesn’t carry a long gun in his vehicle because, in his words, ‘anything that requires a long gun requires a lot of paperwork, and you’re going to find me as far away from it.’

“He took two lunch breaks and attended a going-away party for one of his fellow officers.”

---hmmm, so is this why george continued on after the "real suspicious guy"---he probably couldn't count on the "lazy SPD" so sergeant wanna-be decided to not let this one get away on his own?

I am sure that the SPD "appreciated" his kind words on their job performance, too. That along with his input in the beating of that homeless man by an officers son, I think the guys last name was Collision.

As for ride alongs. Many cities have ride along programs. I did one out in CA and it was interesting and fun but I did it with one of my officer buddies. If anyone is interested they should check it out. There is paperwork, of course, so you better not have a speeding ticket outstanding!

Deb the thing about this also is that at the time of the incident the Sanford Police were steadfast in their denial of knowing who Zimmerman was and also went on record as saying they had no communication with him outside of the 911 calls. This story suggests that not only did they know him but there were email exchanges between he and the very same police chief who denied knowing him. I live in a suburb of Orlando and many of us ( African Americans) here have suspected that someone at that scene made a call to "someone". But now I also question what an officer at the scene takes a phone with his cell phone of his injuries but doe snot place it in evidence, instead saving it to surface months later. I will tell you this much. I am a professional African American male and I avoid Sanford like the plague at night. There just have been too many shady things with the police there.

Ok, I total missed about a police taking a photo of George injures with a cell phone. Where was this stated and if this happen I would suspect the Le that took the picture may have know him.

-------

http://www.realitychatter.com/viewtopic.forum?t=3839

by DebFrmHell Wed May 23, 2012 7:02 pm

snowbird wrote:
Porky wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:
ellejay wrote:
Porky wrote:When this story first broke, I always suspected that Zimmerman had some kind of relationship with the Sanford Police because there were a lot of things that were fishy at the scene. That answer came to fruition today.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html

--snipped from above article:

--more@link--

A year before George Zimmerman killed a Miami Gardens teenager, he stood before a City Hall community forum with a grievance: Sanford cops are lazy, he told the then-mayor elect.

And he should know: Zimmerman, a community college criminal justice major, said he went on ride-alongs with the Sanford Police.

“And what I saw was disgusting,” Zimmerman said, according to a recording of the January 2011 meeting obtained by The Miami Herald. “The officer showed me his favorite hiding spots for taking naps, explained to me that he doesn’t carry a long gun in his vehicle because, in his words, ‘anything that requires a long gun requires a lot of paperwork, and you’re going to find me as far away from it.’

“He took two lunch breaks and attended a going-away party for one of his fellow officers.”

---hmmm, so is this why george continued on after the "real suspicious guy"---he probably couldn't count on the "lazy SPD" so sergeant wanna-be decided to not let this one get away on his own?

I am sure that the SPD "appreciated" his kind words on their job performance, too. That along with his input in the beating of that homeless man by an officers son, I think the guys last name was Collision.

As for ride alongs. Many cities have ride along programs. I did one out in CA and it was interesting and fun but I did it with one of my officer buddies. If anyone is interested they should check it out. There is paperwork, of course, so you better not have a speeding ticket outstanding!

Deb the thing about this also is that at the time of the incident the Sanford Police were steadfast in their denial of knowing who Zimmerman was and also went on record as saying they had no communication with him outside of the 911 calls. This story suggests that not only did they know him but there were email exchanges between he and the very same police chief who denied knowing him. I live in a suburb of Orlando and many of us ( African Americans) here have suspected that someone at that scene made a call to "someone". But now I also question what an officer at the scene takes a phone with his cell phone of his injuries but doe snot place it in evidence, instead saving it to surface months later. I will tell you this much. I am a professional African American male and I avoid Sanford like the plague at night. There just have been too many shady things with the police there.
Ok, I total missed about a police taking a photo of George injures with a cell phone. Where was this stated and if this happen I would suspect the Le that took the picture may have know him.

Sorry I am not at my computer to reference, but IIRC, the photo, the grainy black and white, was taken while he was in the back of the patrol car. The problem with it being turned in wasn't weeks or months long but 3-4 days...something like that.

W12 I think is the person that took the color photos of GZ before he was cuffed and placed in the patrol car. Those are the ones that got released just before the bond hearing.

by serenaz1 Wed May 23, 2012 7:17 pm

DebFrmHell wrote:
Sorry I am not at my computer to reference, but IIRC, the photo, the grainy black and white, was taken while he was in the back of the patrol car. The problem with it being turned in wasn't weeks or months long but 3-4 days...something like that.

W12 I think is the person that took the color photos of GZ before he was cuffed and placed in the patrol car. Those are the ones that got released just before the bond hearing.

Deb, I think it was almost a month, it wasn't turned in until late March, IIRC.

by Porky Wed May 23, 2012 7:54 pm

serenaz1 wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:
Sorry I am not at my computer to reference, but IIRC, the photo, the grainy black and white, was taken while he was in the back of the patrol car. The problem with it being turned in wasn't weeks or months long but 3-4 days...something like that.

W12 I think is the person that took the color photos of GZ before he was cuffed and placed in the patrol car. Those are the ones that got released just before the bond hearing.

Deb, I think it was almost a month, it wasn't turned in until late March, IIRC.

Here is the link. It still baffles me why the ONLY photo at the scene were taken on a police officers cell phone.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/05/new-evidence-trayvon-martin-case

by serenaz1 Wed May 23, 2012 7:59 pm

Porky wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:
Sorry I am not at my computer to reference, but IIRC, the photo, the grainy black and white, was taken while he was in the back of the patrol car. The problem with it being turned in wasn't weeks or months long but 3-4 days...something like that.

W12 I think is the person that took the color photos of GZ before he was cuffed and placed in the patrol car. Those are the ones that got released just before the bond hearing.

Deb, I think it was almost a month, it wasn't turned in until late March, IIRC.

Here is the link. It still baffles me why the ONLY photo at the scene were taken on a police officers cell phone.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/05/new-evidence-trayvon-martin-case

Thanks! Maybe then it's that he didn't send it in as evidence until later in March? I think I remember something like that, but don't recall where I read it.

by ellejay Wed May 23, 2012 8:18 pm

serenaz1 wrote:
Porky wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:
Sorry I am not at my computer to reference, but IIRC, the photo, the grainy black and white, was taken while he was in the back of the patrol car. The problem with it being turned in wasn't weeks or months long but 3-4 days...something like that.

W12 I think is the person that took the color photos of GZ before he was cuffed and placed in the patrol car. Those are the ones that got released just before the bond hearing.

Deb, I think it was almost a month, it wasn't turned in until late March, IIRC.

Here is the link. It still baffles me why the ONLY photo at the scene were taken on a police officers cell phone.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/05/new-evidence-trayvon-martin-case

Thanks! Maybe then it's that he didn't send it in as evidence until later in March? I think I remember something like that, but don't recall where I read it.

--it's in serino's report----on march 21st he rec'd an email w/ the 2 pics (george and trayvon) from the scene from officer wagner.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf
--discovery
--serino's report--page 64
--the supplemental report of march 24th that serino asked wagner to write up--page 18

by snowbird Wed May 23, 2012 8:21 pm

Porky wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:
Sorry I am not at my computer to reference, but IIRC, the photo, the grainy black and white, was taken while he was in the back of the patrol car. The problem with it being turned in wasn't weeks or months long but 3-4 days...something like that.

W12 I think is the person that took the color photos of GZ before he was cuffed and placed in the patrol car. Those are the ones that got released just before the bond hearing.

Deb, I think it was almost a month, it wasn't turned in until late March, IIRC.

Here is the link. It still baffles me why the ONLY photo at the scene were taken on a police officers cell phone.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/05/new-evidence-trayvon-martin-case

Wow, the article states that it was an oversight of the officer, that is some oversight considering a person is dead. I can believe that he know the officer. I wonder if this picture was turned over into evidence before it made it in the news. Wasn't there a cell phone picture that made it in the news before he was arrested? If I remember correctly people were wondering who took a cell phone picture of his head at the crime.

by marcena2 Wed May 23, 2012 8:37 pm

This confirms what we knew already after watching one cop brush the grass off George's jacket at the police station. They knew of each other already. Also following the pattern of complaints against management with the HR department of a past employer (that ended up firing him for too many complaints), it seems that George blew the whistle on the cops that he rode around with. My personal opinion, he sounds like a pain in the ass to live with. Eager to learn, but sees fault with everyone and everything.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-knew-sanford-police-officers-shooting/t/story?id=16414349

by Porky Wed May 23, 2012 8:40 pm

snowbird wrote:
Porky wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:
Sorry I am not at my computer to reference, but IIRC, the photo, the grainy black and white, was taken while he was in the back of the patrol car. The problem with it being turned in wasn't weeks or months long but 3-4 days...something like that.

W12 I think is the person that took the color photos of GZ before he was cuffed and placed in the patrol car. Those are the ones that got released just before the bond hearing.

Deb, I think it was almost a month, it wasn't turned in until late March, IIRC.

Here is the link. It still baffles me why the ONLY photo at the scene were taken on a police officers cell phone.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/05/new-evidence-trayvon-martin-case

Wow, the article states that it was an oversight of the officer, that is some oversight considering a person is dead. I can believe that he know the officer. I wonder if this picture was turned over into evidence before it made it in the news. Wasn't there a cell phone picture that made it in the news before he was arrested? If I remember correctly people were wondering who took a cell phone picture of his head at the crime.

Recall also the timing of when this photo was leaked to the media. The very morning of his bind hearing. Presumably to bolster his self defense claim to get a lower bond. Pretty coincidental huh?

by ellejay Wed May 23, 2012 8:46 pm

snowbird wrote:

Wow, the article states that it was an oversight of the officer, that is some oversight considering a person is dead. I can believe that he know the officer. I wonder if this picture was turned over into evidence before it made it in the news. Wasn't there a cell phone picture that made it in the news before he was arrested? If I remember correctly people were wondering who took a cell phone picture of his head at the crime.

--the cell phone (iphone) pic that ABC news got their "exclusive" hands on was a shot of the back of george's head, w/ blood dripping down..

--the officer took the front face view (where IMO george looks like a long lost marx brother...) on his cell phone.

George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #1 - Page 20 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9ksOCnzg937-hj4BFdj_csmaROMiug0DODaX465iOvHE06QLxOw

George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #1 - Page 20 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9ksOCnzg937-hj4BFdj_csmaROMiug0DODaX465iOvHE06QLxOw

George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #1 - Page 20 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTAGpJ-IM-ck0nDxgDqZ_Q2nSg78TzPuXaMcVm1eHihmj8XM5OdGw

by Porky Wed May 23, 2012 8:57 pm

ellejay wrote:
snowbird wrote:

Wow, the article states that it was an oversight of the officer, that is some oversight considering a person is dead. I can believe that he know the officer. I wonder if this picture was turned over into evidence before it made it in the news. Wasn't there a cell phone picture that made it in the news before he was arrested? If I remember correctly people were wondering who took a cell phone picture of his head at the crime.

--the cell phone (iphone) pic that ABC news got their "exclusive" hands on was a shot of the back of george's head, w/ blood dripping down..

--the officer took the front face view (where IMO george looks like a long lost marx brother...) on his cell phone.

Good catch Ellejay. I stand corrected on that photo.

by marcena2 Wed May 23, 2012 9:04 pm

Prosecutors want some evidence sealed.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/23/2814613/prosecutors-in-george-zimmerman.html

by serenaz1 Wed May 23, 2012 9:24 pm

ellejay wrote:
--it's in serino's report----on march 21st he rec'd an email w/ the 2 pics (george and trayvon) from the scene from officer wagner.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf
--discovery
--serino's report--page 64
--the supplemental report of march 24th that serino asked wagner to write up--page 18

Thanks Ellejay, you rock!

by KZ Wed May 23, 2012 11:38 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/23/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

George Zimmerman gave a scathing review of the Sanford Police Department when he spoke at a public meeting in January 2011, describing what he'd seen in ride-alongs with officers as "disgusting."

On September 18, 2011, he wrote an e-mail thanking the city's police chief and praising the department's "professionalism."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/23/george-zimmerman-sanford-police_n_1541250.html

During a community forum on Jan. 8, 2011, more than a year before Martin was killed, Zimmerman, then a criminal justice student, told city officials he had ridden along with Sanford police officers on patrol. Zimmerman blasted Sanford police as lazy and criticized outgoing Police Chief Brian Tooley, who was forced from office in a scandal involving the son of an officer caught on tape beating a homeless black man.
[More at links]

by CherokeeNative Wed May 23, 2012 11:48 pm

marcena2 wrote:Prosecutors want some evidence sealed.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/23/2814613/prosecutors-in-george-zimmerman.html

It doesn't trouble me if they seal everything listed, except for the cell phone records. I want to see the text messages sent by GZ. I don't think "we don't want the case to be tried in the media" (paraphrasing) is going to fly in light of the sunshine laws. The media attorneys will be all over that.

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http://www.realitychatter.com/viewtopic.forum?t=3962

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