George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

ellejay wrote:

CherokeeNative wrote:Has anyone seen a link where someone has transcribed the various video taped statements of GZ or the reenactment video? I would be interested in seeing those if you do. TIA

--there are a variety of transcripts here, including george's stmts , the reenactment etc...our thanks go to some wonderful folks over @ JQ.

http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65947
--transcripts

Oh cool Ellejay - thanks so much - I knew I could count on you (as always)!!! What would we do without you?

WeeBonnie wrote:Great link- THANKS! This guy represented the Green River Killer? Whoa, scary stuff.

I loved the post about the useless questions asked during stress test and also the discussion in comments about how completely unreliable witness #6 really is.
Aside from making up very significant details out of whole cloth, basically reporting what he imagined instead of saw- he doesn't even get it right when shots were fired.
He's going to be pretty useless to the defense. Wow.

--yep, i found those voice test questions absolutely ridiculous...

--however, one good thing that CVSA "expert" did do for us------he got george to explain just how he fired off that killing shot.

--i've transcribed that part of the interview:

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/30-george-zimmerman-s-statements
--Video Interview by CVSA Expert on February 27


--@ approx. 41:30

CVSA Expert—when you’re laying on the ground, you’re laying on your back right? That’s when your jacket came up and he saw that..your gun, right?

George—yes sir

CVSA—your gun on your left side? Right side?

George—my right side

CVSA—ok, so your gun’s on your right side, where were your hands at?

George—uh, trying to keep his hands (flails his arms around randomly) away..

CVSA—ok, and then …you felt, what’d you feel next?

George—his hand slide down my chest---he took, he had one hand on his ,my mouth and one hand on my nose and he took one off and that’s when he said “you’re gonna die tonight motherf**er” and I felt one hand going down the side of my chest..

CVSA—ok, you felt something like this (slides his hand down his shirt..)

George—yeah, like brushing, and to be honest w/ you, the whole time, I forgot that I had the gun, and then when he said that I was gonna die, and then I felt him brushing, it automatically clicked that he was going for my—

CVSA---so your hands are up here (flails his arms about like George had..) defending yourself. His hand is going down ..

George—yes sir

CVSA—were both your hands on the weapon?

George—no sir

CVSA—ok, where was his hands?..when you went to retrieve the weapon

George—well, one hand was going towards the gun, he took it off my mouth, and I was trying to get his hand, he was suffocating me so I was trying to get his hands off my face, so when I felt his hand ( he slides his hand down his shirt) he let go of my mouth so I wasn’t trying to do anything again w/ my right hand, so I grabbed my gun and I don’t know if he did at the same time or…what the case was, but, I got to it 1st.

--@ approx. 42:50

CVSA—ok and how did you come to fire upon him from that position? Cause you’re laying down, like this, on your back right?

George—yes sir

CVSA—and then you just bring it out of the holster and then straight up like this? (holds his arm up in the air..)
George—yes sir

CVSA—you didn’t try to push it into him or anything?

George—no

CVSA—you just fired it, like almost from the hip?

George—I think I made sure, that it wasn’t, cause my hand, my hand was in the way, I made sure it was past my , cause his other hand was still on my face (umm, what's that george? b/c that makes zero sense..)

CVSA—so he was that far away, (holds his hand right in front of himself) cause he was right on top of you

George—no, he was like putting all of his weight on my nose and my mouth ( ummm, think back now George, you already said he had taken one hand off of your mouth…) trying to suffocate me ..so he was like creating a crevice, with his body, and then he like, when he slid to go for my gun

CVSA—did he go for your gun w/ his left hand or right hand?

George—(in a real low voice) umm, I don’t recall…I don’t know

CVSA—but one of his hands went for it, the one that was on your mouth?

George—that, that’s when it clicked that I had my gun, and, when he said

CVSA—the hand that was on your mouth, it went to your gun, ok

George—yes sir

CVSA—then you got it, and you went out like this? (holds his hand/arm out in front)

George—(big sigh) I think I went far enough to where I could make sure that it was past my other hand (he’s now holding his right arm extended straight out in front) and, in his general area so ( in trayvon's "general area", good grief..)

CVSA—from what you’re describing to me, he’s not that far away from you

George—no, he’s on me

CVSA—he’s on top of you

George—yes sir

CVSA—right, so there’s not a whole lot of distance between you and him

George—right

CVSA—so you can’t really extend your arm

George—( oh yeah right, that was stupid of me to hold my arm straight out like that ..) correct

CVSA—because then you’ve got a gun sticking out ( holds out his arm again, this time pointing his finger to add in the length of the gun too) what kind of gun is it?

George—a keltek 9 mm

CVSA—a keltek 9, so it’s probably only about that long right

George—no, it’s shorter (like really shorter, b/c I’ve said I was lying on my back, with trayvon’s body making this little “crevice” area, and then to have my arm extended…and the gun at the end of my arm…man, that sounds idiotic even to me..)

CVSA—(mumbles something) so it’s a little tight, I mean you probably don’t have any play

George—no sir

CVSA-- before that gun’s directly into his chest

George—correct. I was on him and you know, I was—( CVSA butts in, I wish he would have let George finish off his “I was ON HIM..”)

CVSA—and as soon as the round went off he stopped attacking you?

George-- he, yes, he sat back, and he said “you got me” or “you got it”, ( then he adds in a bored DRY VOICE)..whatever..

CVSA—I’m sure it all happened just like quick too

George—it felt like an eternity

George—I thought that the police were there, were going to be there, so it felt like it took forever

Yeah interesting he claims he wasn't thinking of guns- unless it was Trayvons waistband.

ellejay wrote:

WeeBonnie wrote:Great link- THANKS! This guy represented the Green River Killer? Whoa, scary stuff.

I loved the post about the useless questions asked during stress test and also the discussion in comments about how completely unreliable witness #6 really is.
Aside from making up very significant details out of whole cloth, basically reporting what he imagined instead of saw- he doesn't even get it right when shots were fired.
He's going to be pretty useless to the defense. Wow.

--yep, i found those voice test questions absolutely ridiculous...

--however, one good thing that CVSA "expert" did do for us------he got george to explain just how he fired off that killing shot.

--i've transcribed that part of the interview:

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/30-george-zimmerman-s-statements
--Video Interview by CVSA Expert on February 27


--@ approx. 41:30

CVSA Expert—when you’re laying on the ground, you’re laying on your back right? That’s when your jacket came up and he saw that..your gun, right?

George—yes sir

CVSA—your gun on your left side? Right side?

George—my right side

CVSA—ok, so your gun’s on your right side, where were your hands at?

George—uh, trying to keep his hands (flails his arms around randomly) away..

CVSA—ok, and then …you felt, what’d you feel next?

George—his hand slide down my chest---he took, he had one hand on his ,my mouth and one hand on my nose and he took one off and that’s when he said “you’re gonna die tonight motherf**er” and I felt one hand going down the side of my chest..

CVSA—ok, you felt something like this (slides his hand down his shirt..)

George—yeah, like brushing, and to be honest w/ you, the whole time, I forgot that I had the gun, and then when he said that I was gonna die, and then I felt him brushing, it automatically clicked that he was going for my—

CVSA---so your hands are up here (flails his arms about like George had..) defending yourself. His hand is going down ..

George—yes sir

CVSA—were both your hands on the weapon?

George—no sir

CVSA—ok, where was his hands?..when you went to retrieve the weapon

George—well, one hand was going towards the gun, he took it off my mouth, and I was trying to get his hand, he was suffocating me so I was trying to get his hands off my face, so when I felt his hand ( he slides his hand down his shirt) he let go of my mouth so I wasn’t trying to do anything again w/ my right hand, so I grabbed my gun and I don’t know if he did at the same time or…what the case was, but, I got to it 1st.

--@ approx. 42:50

CVSA—ok and how did you come to fire upon him from that position? Cause you’re laying down, like this, on your back right?

George—yes sir

CVSA—and then you just bring it out of the holster and then straight up like this? (holds his arm up in the air..)
George—yes sir

CVSA—you didn’t try to push it into him or anything?

George—no

CVSA—you just fired it, like almost from the hip?

George—I think I made sure, that it wasn’t, cause my hand, my hand was in the way, I made sure it was past my , cause his other hand was still on my face (umm, what's that george? b/c that makes zero sense..)

CVSA—so he was that far away, (holds his hand right in front of himself) cause he was right on top of you

George—no, he was like putting all of his weight on my nose and my mouth ( ummm, think back now George, you already said he had taken one hand off of your mouth…) trying to suffocate me ..so he was like creating a crevice, with his body, and then he like, when he slid to go for my gun

CVSA—did he go for your gun w/ his left hand or right hand?

George—(in a real low voice) umm, I don’t recall…I don’t know

CVSA—but one of his hands went for it, the one that was on your mouth?

George—that, that’s when it clicked that I had my gun, and, when he said

CVSA—the hand that was on your mouth, it went to your gun, ok

George—yes sir

CVSA—then you got it, and you went out like this? (holds his hand/arm out in front)

George—(big sigh) I think I went far enough to where I could make sure that it was past my other hand (he’s now holding his right arm extended straight out in front) and, in his general area so ( in trayvon's "general area", good grief..)

CVSA—from what you’re describing to me, he’s not that far away from you

George—no, he’s on me

CVSA—he’s on top of you

George—yes sir

CVSA—right, so there’s not a whole lot of distance between you and him

George—right

CVSA—so you can’t really extend your arm

George—( oh yeah right, that was stupid of me to hold my arm straight out like that ..) correct

CVSA—because then you’ve got a gun sticking out ( holds out his arm again, this time pointing his finger to add in the length of the gun too) what kind of gun is it?

George—a keltek 9 mm

CVSA—a keltek 9, so it’s probably only about that long right

George—no, it’s shorter (like really shorter, b/c I’ve said I was lying on my back, with trayvon’s body making this little “crevice” area, and then to have my arm extended…and the gun at the end of my arm…man, that sounds idiotic even to me..)

CVSA—(mumbles something) so it’s a little tight, I mean you probably don’t have any play

George—no sir

CVSA-- before that gun’s directly into his chest

George—correct. I was on him and you know, I was—( CVSA butts in, I wish he would have let George finish off his “I was ON HIM..”)

CVSA—and as soon as the round went off he stopped attacking you?

George-- he, yes, he sat back, and he said “you got me” or “you got it”, ( then he adds in a bored DRY VOICE)..whatever..

CVSA—I’m sure it all happened just like quick too

George—it felt like an eternity

George—I thought that the police were there, were going to be there, so it felt like it took forever

ellejay wrote:

WeeBonnie wrote:Great link- THANKS! This guy represented the Green River Killer? Whoa, scary stuff.

I loved the post about the useless questions asked during stress test and also the discussion in comments about how completely unreliable witness #6 really is.
Aside from making up very significant details out of whole cloth, basically reporting what he imagined instead of saw- he doesn't even get it right when shots were fired.
He's going to be pretty useless to the defense. Wow.

--yep, i found those voice test questions absolutely ridiculous...

--however, one good thing that CVSA "expert" did do for us------he got george to explain just how he fired off that killing shot.

--i've transcribed that part of the interview:

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/30-george-zimmerman-s-statements
--Video Interview by CVSA Expert on February 27


--@ approx. 41:30

CVSA Expert—when you’re laying on the ground, you’re laying on your back right? That’s when your jacket came up and he saw that..your gun, right?

George—yes sir

CVSA—your gun on your left side? Right side?

George—my right side

CVSA—ok, so your gun’s on your right side, where were your hands at?

George—uh, trying to keep his hands (flails his arms around randomly) away..

CVSA—ok, and then …you felt, what’d you feel next?

George—his hand slide down my chest---he took, he had one hand on his ,my mouth and one hand on my nose and he took one off and that’s when he said “you’re gonna die tonight motherf**er” and I felt one hand going down the side of my chest..

CVSA—ok, you felt something like this (slides his hand down his shirt..)

George—yeah, like brushing, and to be honest w/ you, the whole time, I forgot that I had the gun, and then when he said that I was gonna die, and then I felt him brushing, it automatically clicked that he was going for my—

CVSA---so your hands are up here (flails his arms about like George had..) defending yourself. His hand is going down ..

George—yes sir

CVSA—were both your hands on the weapon?

George—no sir

CVSA—ok, where was his hands?..when you went to retrieve the weapon

George—well, one hand was going towards the gun, he took it off my mouth, and I was trying to get his hand, he was suffocating me so I was trying to get his hands off my face, so when I felt his hand ( he slides his hand down his shirt) he let go of my mouth so I wasn’t trying to do anything again w/ my right hand, so I grabbed my gun and I don’t know if he did at the same time or…what the case was, but, I got to it 1st.

--@ approx. 42:50

CVSA—ok and how did you come to fire upon him from that position? Cause you’re laying down, like this, on your back right?

George—yes sir

CVSA—and then you just bring it out of the holster and then straight up like this? (holds his arm up in the air..)
George—yes sir

CVSA—you didn’t try to push it into him or anything?

George—no

CVSA—you just fired it, like almost from the hip?

George—I think I made sure, that it wasn’t, cause my hand, my hand was in the way, I made sure it was past my , cause his other hand was still on my face (umm, what's that george? b/c that makes zero sense..)

CVSA—so he was that far away, (holds his hand right in front of himself) cause he was right on top of you

George—no, he was like putting all of his weight on my nose and my mouth ( ummm, think back now George, you already said he had taken one hand off of your mouth…) trying to suffocate me ..so he was like creating a crevice, with his body, and then he like, when he slid to go for my gun

CVSA—did he go for your gun w/ his left hand or right hand?

George—(in a real low voice) umm, I don’t recall…I don’t know

CVSA—but one of his hands went for it, the one that was on your mouth?

George—that, that’s when it clicked that I had my gun, and, when he said

CVSA—the hand that was on your mouth, it went to your gun, ok

George—yes sir

CVSA—then you got it, and you went out like this? (holds his hand/arm out in front)

George—(big sigh) I think I went far enough to where I could make sure that it was past my other hand (he’s now holding his right arm extended straight out in front) and, in his general area so ( in trayvon's "general area", good grief..)

CVSA—from what you’re describing to me, he’s not that far away from you

George—no, he’s on me

CVSA—he’s on top of you

George—yes sir

CVSA—right, so there’s not a whole lot of distance between you and him

George—right

CVSA—so you can’t really extend your arm

George—( oh yeah right, that was stupid of me to hold my arm straight out like that ..) correct

CVSA—because then you’ve got a gun sticking out ( holds out his arm again, this time pointing his finger to add in the length of the gun too) what kind of gun is it?

George—a keltek 9 mm

CVSA—a keltek 9, so it’s probably only about that long right

George—no, it’s shorter (like really shorter, b/c I’ve said I was lying on my back, with trayvon’s body making this little “crevice” area, and then to have my arm extended…and the gun at the end of my arm…man, that sounds idiotic even to me..)

CVSA—(mumbles something) so it’s a little tight, I mean you probably don’t have any play

George—no sir

CVSA-- before that gun’s directly into his chest

George—correct. I was on him and you know, I was—( CVSA butts in, I wish he would have let George finish off his “I was ON HIM..”)

CVSA—and as soon as the round went off he stopped attacking you?

George-- he, yes, he sat back, and he said “you got me” or “you got it”, ( then he adds in a bored DRY VOICE)..whatever..

CVSA—I’m sure it all happened just like quick too

George—it felt like an eternity

George—I thought that the police were there, were going to be there, so it felt like it took forever

Excellent job Ellejay - this is something that I noted too. During the course of his video taped statements, George states that he managed to pull his gun from its holster, "aimed," and shot Trayvon. He even describes how he rationalized how he needed to angle the gun in such a way so as to not shoot his own hand. Finally, he states that he pulled his gun because Trayvon said, “Your [sic] gonna die tonight Mother Fucker.” So in actuality, GZ did not shoot Trayvon because his head was being beaten into the concrete, but because of what Trayvon supposedly said to him. And at the moment, he had control enough to be able to aim and think about not shooting his own hand, he became the agressor in my opinion because it is at this moment, all he had to do was say, "I've got a gun, and I am going to shoot if you...." and it would have been all over without killing Trayvon. This is depraved mind, and this is not self-defense. JMHO.

CherokeeNative wrote:

Excellent job Ellejay - this is something that I noted too. During the course of his video taped statements, George states that he managed to pull his gun from its holster, "aimed," and shot Trayvon. He even describes how he rationalized how he needed to angle the gun in such a way so as to not shoot his own hand. Finally, he states that he pulled his gun because Trayvon said, “Your [sic] gonna die tonight Mother Fucker.” So in actuality, GZ did not shoot Trayvon because his head was being beaten into the concrete, but because of what Trayvon supposedly said to him. And at the moment, he had control enough to be able to aim and think about not shooting his own hand, he became the agressor in my opinion because it is at this moment, all he had to do was say, "I've got a gun, and I am going to shoot if you...." and it would have been all over without killing Trayvon. This is depraved mind, and this is not self-defense. JMHO.

--good catch. he doesn't even mention the part about his head getting bashed in at ALL just that he was being suffocated ( w/ BOTH of trayvon's hands at the time....) so obviously trayvon couldn't have been doing both the bashing and suffocating ( which was it george?)

--earlier on in the interview he also tells the guy that while trayvon was repeatedly punching george in the nose that it felt like his head was going to explode ( no george, the "head was going to explode" part is when he was bashing your head...)

I'm back!! I had to call AAA to get directions for where this thread was occurring

http://www.audioforensicexpert.com/did-george-zimmerman-cry-for-help-the-trayvon-martin-murder-trial/
Did George Zimmerman Cry for Help? – The Trayvon Martin Murder Trial

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 --Author: Audio Forensic-Expert

--snips--

--I was contacted by a producer at The Today Show shortly after they acquired a copy of an exemplar that the police made of George Zimmerman’s voice. They made the exemplar (sample of Mr. Zimmerman’s voice) so that it could be compared to the cry for help in the 911 police recording.

--However, I do want to go on record and comment that a more appropriate or exact exemplar needs to be made of George Zimmerman’s voice in order to conduct a proper voice identification test.

--However, what was not done properly when creating the exemplar was the delivery of the word “help” by Zimmerman. The reason being that, it was very different than the long, drawn out scream of help that is heard in the background of the 911 recording which is posted on several places on the Internet.

--The way to properly record a voice identification exemplar or sample of the accused voice is to have the person recreate the distance of the cell phone call exactly like the police did. Additionally, the delivery of the words need to be as similar to the original as possible. In this case, I believe that the police could have turned to the FBI for help recording this exemplar.

As an audio forensic expert who has been named as an expert witness in this case, I would have been happy to help create this exemplar as well. And why it was released to the media before consulting with the expert witness team is unknown to me.

---more@link---

Hi everyone....you all are on top of it today. I am in and out....kid duty today. But I am reading and keeping up.

Shellie Z was asked dureing the first bond hearing about death threats,,She stated we havent had any.We have had hate mail people dont like us ,,L E state we have received no reports of death threats GZ an his representatives have not asked for any protection.So as George snuggles into his safe bed at night in his safe house asigning codenames to himself an his crew of body gaurds.Will he have any African American gaurds ?Or Arabaian?Will he tell his wife they are now the centre of a mass conspiricy by leftist librel forces to impose strict gun laws..Im being Framed he says ZIMMERFRAMED. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ-5w1nbNMU&feature=player_embedded#

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-11/news/os-george-zimmerman-plus-20120711_1_trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-special-prosecutor-angela-corey
George Zimmerman evidence, including FBI interviews, to be released Thursday

Special Prosecutor Angela Corey on Thursday releases another round of evidence in her second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman, including a first look at what FBI agents have turned up in their civil rights investigation.

Nearly a dozen FBI agents interviewed several Sanford police officers, including the case's lead investigator, Chris Serino. They also talked to Zimmerman's former girlfriend, who accused him in court paperwork of being violent; neighbor Frank Taffee; several unidentified civilian witnesses and several gun shop employees, including those who worked at the store where Zimmerman bought the gun he used to shoot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

Summaries or copies of those interviews will be in the new evidence, but there'll be no official finding by the FBI or the agency overseeing the federal investigation, the Civil Rights Division of theU.S. Department of Justice.


---more@link---

The phone records of Trayvon and his girlfriend's phone and the time on the 911 tape where we hear the shot will tell us exactly how long this fight lasted. That interests me.

From a nurses point of view, I could understand if a doctor's opinion was offered that George very well could not have given a blow by blow account chronologically and his memory of what happened could have been affected. 1) From his ADHD and his medication regime.
2) From his having trauma to his head.

After the Anthony case I am trying to look at this from a point of view of what CAN be presented to a jury, not what we all know from the release of everything under the SS Law.....sighs...hard to do.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-11/news/os-george-zimmerman-plus-20120711_1_trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-special-prosecutor-angela-corey
George Zimmerman evidence, including FBI interviews, to be released Thursday

--snipped--

There are no obvious blockbusters, but there are several things that could be revealing. Among them are:

•Email from Zimmerman and Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee.

•Cell phone records from Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin.

•The testimony of 21 new unidentified "civilian" witnesses – those not working for a government agency.

•What Central Florida gun shop owners had to say about Zimmerman's comments and behavior while buying the gun that killed Trayvon, taking target practice and getting training for his concealed weapons permit.

•What Zimmerman told police dispatchers and officers the six times he called Sanford and Seminole County authorities, presumably reporting problems as a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, in the six months before Trayvon's shooting.

•The account of a private investigator hired by the Martin family.

•Crime scene photos, diagrams and dispatch records.

•Seminole County jail records.

•-What state alcohol agents have to say about Zimmerman. The agency arrested him in 2005 for resisting arrest without violence during a raid at a bar near the University of Central Florida.

Can't wait for tomorrow. Looks like some interesting reading.

--"Nearly a dozen FBI agents interviewed several Sanford police officers, including the case's lead investigator, Chris Serino. They also talked to Zimmerman's former girlfriend, who accused him in court paperwork of being violent; neighbor Frank Taffee; several unidentified civilian witnesses and several gun shop employees, including those who worked at the store where Zimmerman bought the gun he used to shoot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin."

--taffee mentioned his interview w/ the FBI in an earlier tweet:

Frank The Tank ‏@fbtaaffe
@coreshift I was questioned by the FBI about z for over 3 hours and they tried but I didn't give then shit u feeling me ?

--seriously, this guy is such a whacko.

Chickenbutt wrote:Can't wait for tomorrow. Looks like some interesting reading.

--yep, sure does!

--( of all days tomorrow is the one i won't be able to access a computer-----sob! )

So sorry ellejay. Luckily, no kid duty for me tomorrow. So I have all day to do nothing. Now if hubby will just pretend like I'm not there.

Clipped from ellejay-

" George—his hand slide down my chest---he took, he had one hand on his ,my mouth and one hand on my nose and he took one off and that’s when he said “you’re gonna die tonight motherf**er” and I felt one hand going down the side of my chest.."
So. In order for Trayvon to speak he had to take his hand OFF GZ's mouth? Ok! Maybe Trayvon took his hand off GZ's mouth so GZ would hear???

Actually, IMO, it was GZ who covered Trayvon's mouth and nose. When GZ went for his gun, he had to take his hand off the mouth of Trayvon and that is when we hear Trayvon screaming for help.

ecossie possie wrote:Shellie Z was asked dureing the first bond hearing about death threats,,She stated we havent had any.We have had hate mail people dont like us ,,L E state we have received no reports of death threats GZ an his representatives have not asked for any protection.So as George snuggles into his safe bed at night in his safe house asigning codenames to himself an his crew of body gaurds.Will he have any African American gaurds ?Or Arabaian?Will he tell his wife they are now the centre of a mass conspiricy by leftist librel forces to impose strict gun laws..Im being Framed he says ZIMMERFRAMED. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ-5w1nbNMU&feature=player_embedded#

He better pray there is no Hispanic La Familia what with his nasty comments about Hispanics. Matter of fact, IMO, there aren't too many who DO like him for his actions and his comments.

Interesting! I have seen bloggers point out that at many points while reinacting he acts out the part of the agressor. And usually it makes more sense that way.

I have again and again seen sociopaths ascribe their own bad behavior to others.
It often works well, because the victim is left with saying "hey NO- he did it! Not me!" and so many people are dismissive of the victim because the conflicting stories seem childish and tit for tat. And unless you've been burned by a sociopath yourself it's really hard to believe how good they are at the most brazen of lies and playing the injured party.
GZ also tries to inflate his importance telling all sorts of little lies as often as he breathes! He's compulsive. As soon as someone pins something on him, he flips the script and plays the victim. Very narcissistic and manipulative bahaviour - and textbook sociopath.

Freckles wrote:Clipped from ellejay-

" George—his hand slide down my chest---he took, he had one hand on his ,my mouth and one hand on my nose and he took one off and that’s when he said “you’re gonna die tonight motherf**er” and I felt one hand going down the side of my chest.."
So. In order for Trayvon to speak he had to take his hand OFF GZ's mouth? Ok! Maybe Trayvon took his hand off GZ's mouth so GZ would hear???

Actually, IMO, it was GZ who covered Trayvon's mouth and nose. When GZ went for his gun, he had to take his hand off the mouth of Trayvon and that is when we hear Trayvon screaming for help.

Freckles wrote:Clipped from ellejay-

" George—his hand slide down my chest---he took, he had one hand on his ,my mouth and one hand on my nose and he took one off and that’s when he said “you’re gonna die tonight motherf**er” and I felt one hand going down the side of my chest.."
So. In order for Trayvon to speak he had to take his hand OFF GZ's mouth? Ok! Maybe Trayvon took his hand off GZ's mouth so GZ would hear???

Actually, IMO, it was GZ who covered Trayvon's mouth and nose. When GZ went for his gun, he had to take his hand off the mouth of Trayvon and that is when we hear Trayvon screaming for help.

For all the thug descriptions they are trying to pin on Trayvon, I really think that he looked kind of goofy and that's why Zimmerman thought that he could take him as he followed him from the 7-11. I truly think that you are on to something here Freckles.

I keep thinking of Dee Dee saying "He's a Mommas boy" and never fought.
Heart breaking stuff.

Porky wrote:

Freckles wrote:Clipped from ellejay-

" George—his hand slide down my chest---he took, he had one hand on his ,my mouth and one hand on my nose and he took one off and that’s when he said “you’re gonna die tonight motherf**er” and I felt one hand going down the side of my chest.."
So. In order for Trayvon to speak he had to take his hand OFF GZ's mouth? Ok! Maybe Trayvon took his hand off GZ's mouth so GZ would hear???

Actually, IMO, it was GZ who covered Trayvon's mouth and nose. When GZ went for his gun, he had to take his hand off the mouth of Trayvon and that is when we hear Trayvon screaming for help.

For all the thug descriptions they are trying to pin on Trayvon, I really think that he looked kind of goofy and that's why Zimmerman thought that he could take him as he followed him from the 7-11. I truly think that you are on to something here Freckles.

Porky wrote:

Freckles wrote:Clipped from ellejay-

" George—his hand slide down my chest---he took, he had one hand on his ,my mouth and one hand on my nose and he took one off and that’s when he said “you’re gonna die tonight motherf**er” and I felt one hand going down the side of my chest.."
So. In order for Trayvon to speak he had to take his hand OFF GZ's mouth? Ok! Maybe Trayvon took his hand off GZ's mouth so GZ would hear???

Actually, IMO, it was GZ who covered Trayvon's mouth and nose. When GZ went for his gun, he had to take his hand off the mouth of Trayvon and that is when we hear Trayvon screaming for help.

For all the thug descriptions they are trying to pin on Trayvon, I really think that he looked kind of goofy and that's why Zimmerman thought that he could take him as he followed him from the 7-11. I truly think that you are on to something here Freckles.

I must admit that there are several statements where I questioned whether GZ was reversing the roles between himself and Trayvon - to the point that I wonder if GZ was on top of Trayvon when he pulled the trigger. I am so curious to see what the gun experts have to say about the position of the gun and the trajectory and whether it could be accomplished as GZ states - because I just don't think it can.

Well Chicken I'm depending on you to "pluck" the best tid bits and share your thoughts here!
I'm in back to back meetings after a few sick days and will have to just take peeks when I'm in the bathroom!

I don't think we're seeing GZs infamous email
Or text though... I think that hasnt been ruled on yet, right?

21 witnesses!

Chickenbutt wrote:So sorry ellejay. Luckily, no kid duty for me tomorrow. So I have all day to do nothing. Now if hubby will just pretend like I'm not there.

Yep, CB, we are all relying on you to keep us informed on what it all says....as Wee says, pluck out the best parts to keep us going until quit time.

It's a common way to lie- because it's easy to keep the story straight and it will fit the timeline / circumstances because that matches he duration and net effects of the event in question. But he had to go add a bunch of stuff to make sure he could say his life was threatened, and also somehow twist his NEN call into just "innocently walking around" with Trayvons stalking. All those twists he needed to add screw up the timeline and do not fit the physical evidence.

That's too many coincidences to ignore!
Poor sap claims to have detailed recollections and blanks out when he knows his story doesn't fit. Unbeweavable!

CherokeeNative wrote:

Porky wrote:

For all the thug descriptions they are trying to pin on Trayvon, I really think that he looked kind of goofy and that's why Zimmerman thought that he could take him as he followed him from the 7-11. I truly think that you are on to something here Freckles.

I must admit that there are several statements where I questioned whether GZ was reversing the roles between himself and Trayvon - to the point that I wonder if GZ was on top of Trayvon when he pulled the trigger. I am so curious to see what the gun experts have to say about the position of the gun and the trajectory and whether it could be accomplished as GZ states - because I just don't think it can.

ITA Cher! It was during one of the video interviews when he was gesturing, and really into it you know? And I just said to myself - he's showing what HE did. It gave me chills. I think there's also two or three times where he actually mixes up and says it was him and not Trayvon as well. Lies are easy for some people, but perfect ones... Not so much!

CherokeeNative wrote:
I must admit that there are several statements where I questioned whether GZ was reversing the roles between himself and Trayvon - to the point that I wonder if GZ was on top of Trayvon when he pulled the trigger. I am so curious to see what the gun experts have to say about the position of the gun and the trajectory and whether it could be accomplished as GZ states - because I just don't think it can.

Another reversal in his story- Trayvon was straddling HIM.
But everyone describes two people lying prone, wrestling and rolling on the ground (even witness 6). It appears he might be the only person who straddled at all!

So, I see what I'm good for now. You all just love me cuz I'm home and can keep you all updated. I see how it is....is there a foot stomping, arm crossing, back turning emoticon?

Chickenbutt wrote:So, I see what I'm good for now. You all just love me cuz I'm home and can keep you all updated. I see how it is....is there a foot stomping, arm crossing, back turning emoticon?

Oh CB - that's not so - we will shower your with chocolates and uber delicious cocktails for your services.

Thank you...you can forego the cocktails, I don't drink. But you can double the chocolate!

Chickenbutt wrote:So, I see what I'm good for now. You all just love me cuz I'm home and can keep you all updated. I see how it is....is there a foot stomping, arm crossing, back turning emoticon?

noo I love you for your butt. I mean chicken

Oooooooohhhh, I'm telllllllllllin'
Mrs. Porky???? Where are you? He's lookin at me!

CherokeeNative wrote:

I must admit that there are several statements where I questioned whether GZ was reversing the roles between himself and Trayvon - to the point that I wonder if GZ was on top of Trayvon when he pulled the trigger. I am so curious to see what the gun experts have to say about the position of the gun and the trajectory and whether it could be accomplished as GZ states - because I just don't think it can.

--yep, this brings me once again to SA investigator gilbreath's stmt:

"we had mr. zimmerman's stmts ( where he was lying on his back and firing that shot?? didn't compute.) the spent shell casing (that was WHERE trayvon was actually killed ) and we had mr. martin's body ( that was a good 50 feet down the sidewalk from where mr.Z said all of the action occurred----and .)---until he changed that up and said that he 'stumbled', 'fell', and got himself/trayvon maybe another 10 feet or so-----still does not compute....AND, the bullet couldn't have gone 'directly front to back' w/ george laying down..)

--once we get a gun/trajectory expert testifying to this MAJOR lie-----george is so outed as the LIAR that he is..

Location of witnesess map.. https://i.imgur.com/AGiC7.png

ecossie possie wrote:Location of witnesess map.. https://i.imgur.com/AGiC7.png

Wow! That is some map! Can anyone post this on RC?

CherokeeNative wrote:Here's a link you might find interesting. http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/is-george-zimmerman-playing-the-race-card-to-garner-sympathy-and-financial-support/#comments

--and 'masoninblue' has followed up today with:

http://my.firedoglake.com/mason/2012/07/11/are-zimmermans-lawyers-hurting-or-helping-his-defense/
Are Zimmerman’s Lawyers Hurting or Helping His Defense?

I have reached the point with GZ that I now assume everything he says is a lie, unless it is independently supported by credible evidence.

It’s as if this guy is living in a movie making everything up as he goes along and now he is starring in an epic action adventure and crime thriller in which he is the heroic crime fighter targeted for assassination by all of the Black hoodlums in the land.

I cannot help but wonder if this is GZ’s consciously selected new role to play or if he’s delusional and really believes himself to be in danger.

Instead of a cape, this courageous crime fighter is wearing a bullet-proof vest and has his lead attorney pandering to the right wing drumming up dollars for justice. (gz's legal site's "begging 'for those of you who.....'for $$'s" inserted here.)
~~~

However, what if GZ is not acting? What if he suffers from paranoid delusions that led him to profile, follow, confront and shoot TM because he was walking while Black in GZ’s neighborhood?

Is that a possibility?

Is it a legal defense?

What should a lawyer do if he believes his client is delusional?

--more@ link---

Freckles wrote:

ecossie possie wrote:Location of witnesess map.. https://i.imgur.com/AGiC7.png

Wow! That is some map! Can anyone post this on RC?

--ecossie's great find (thanks "e"!)-----location of witnesses map:
--( also now posted in the library..)

ellejay wrote:

CherokeeNative wrote:

I must admit that there are several statements where I questioned whether GZ was reversing the roles between himself and Trayvon - to the point that I wonder if GZ was on top of Trayvon when he pulled the trigger. I am so curious to see what the gun experts have to say about the position of the gun and the trajectory and whether it could be accomplished as GZ states - because I just don't think it can.

--yep, this brings me once again to SA investigator gilbreath's stmt:

"we had mr. zimmerman's stmts ( where he was lying on his back and firing that shot?? didn't compute.) the spent shell casing (that was WHERE trayvon was actually killed ) and we had mr. martin's body ( that was a good 50 feet down the sidewalk from where mr.Z said all of the action occurred----and .)---until he changed that up and said that he 'stumbled', 'fell', and got himself/trayvon maybe another 10 feet or so-----still does not compute....AND, the bullet couldn't have gone 'directly front to back' w/ george laying down..)

--once we get a gun/trajectory expert testifying to this MAJOR lie-----george is so outed as the LIAR that he is..

Yeah, I am almost positive that the gun forensic expert is going to show that there isn't any way possible this happened with GZ on the ground - we will see MOM swallow his lips, and GZ's eyes bulge out - and then we will see a plea deal.

The great thing about plea deals, is the Judge is not normally a participant - so even though the prosecutor agrees to only ask for say 15 years (plus the gun enhancement) and the defense agrees to it, or whatever they come up with (plus the gun enhancement) - the Judge can ignore it all and set his own sentence, lesser or over as long as it is within the sentencing guidelines.

So, remember how angry Judge Lester was? Remember how MOM is out making an arse of himself pandering to people who would have done what GZ did? Gee, wonder how lenient good old Judge Lester is going to be if that happens.

ellejay wrote:--"Nearly a dozen FBI agents interviewed several Sanford police officers, including the case's lead investigator, Chris Serino. They also talked to Zimmerman's former girlfriend, who accused him in court paperwork of being violent; neighbor Frank Taffee; several unidentified civilian witnesses and several gun shop employees, including those who worked at the store where Zimmerman bought the gun he used to shoot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin."

--taffee mentioned his interview w/ the FBI in an earlier tweet:

Frank The Tank ‏@fbtaaffe
@coreshift I was questioned by the FBI about z for over 3 hours and they tried but I didn't give then shit u feeling me ?

--seriously, this guy is such a whacko.

So Frank - if you "didn't give them shit" - why are you on the witness list? Hmmmm???? I guarantee it isn't because of your bleach blonde hair.

CN; I saw something the other day about the media not getting access to the new dump until they'd pre-paid, I guess some didn't pay when they were supposed to. So today I got an email saying people need to have payment in for immediate FTP access. I wrote the lady back asking if I'm really supposed to even have a login ID if I'm not a media-type person, didn't say I was when requesting the ID tho.

I'll let you know what I hear. :)

Cherokee Native...Even if GZ were to agree to plea to Manslaughter he would receive a minimum 25 years..The former govener of Florida Zeb Bush intoduced a law that anyone convicted of a fellony involveing a firearm must receive a mininum 25 yr sentance..Manslaughter is a fellony an it did involve a firearm..There wont be any plea deal though this is going to a jury...

Oh, looky here. George has the same type of tattoo that is causing trouble for people trying to immigrate. I'm thinking Geo isn't much of a Glee kinda guy, so I'm going with his being a thug tattoo rather than theatrical. lol

"....Lawyers and criminologists say many tattoos causing trouble for immigrants symbolize gang membership but have been adopted by the wider public. One familiar design: a pair of theatrical masks, known as "Smile Now, Cry Later," which Mr. Villalobos has.

"If you are sporting a gang tattoo, it is reasonable for a consular officer to investigate if you have gang affiliations," said Ira Mehlman, a spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a group that favors curbing immigration to the U.S., adding, "Our government is competent to make these decisions.....""

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303933404577505192265987100.html

CherokeeNative wrote:

I agree Justa - this guy has GZ nailed. I especially like that he points out that the one true witness does not lie. These parts nailed it:

He made three huge mistakes
A) He had not realized that the One True Witness says accurately that he got out of the truck before any questions about address or directions were asked. The One True Witness says:
Zimmerman got out of the truck solely in order to follow Martin
The One True Witness can not lie - can not remember wrongly.
{snipped}

What section is the One True Witness stuff in? That sounds great!

I'm guessing it'll go to a jury too. Between GZs ego and self righteousness and the pile of money and fame MOM is looking at, I think they are apt to role the dice. They could easily find a depraved "forensics expert" to say whatever they need and cast doubts. I hate to say it, but I think it will come down to jury selection. I know Cher will talk me down, but that's my gut talking.

ecossie possie wrote:Cherokee Native...Even if GZ were to agree to plea to Manslaughter he would receive a minimum 25 years..The former govener of Florida Zeb Bush intoduced a law that anyone convicted of a fellony involveing a firearm must receive a mininum 25 yr sentance..Manslaughter is a fellony an it did involve a firearm..There wont be any plea deal though this is going to a jury...

Seranaz1..one tru witness you can find here. http://zimmermanscall.blogspot.ca/

ellejay wrote:
--yep, i found those voice test questions absolutely ridiculous...

--however, one good thing that CVSA "expert" did do for us------he got george to explain just how he fired off that killing shot.

--i've transcribed that part of the interview:

{snipped}

Great stuff, ellejay, thanks for transcribing/noting it! I don't get the questioning(giving the answer is more like it) style either and to see that the tester talked over George saying he was on top of Trayvon makes me CRAZY....come on, dude! sheesh

Thanks for posting that map, ellejay. Ecossie really has a find with that!

CN- Fred is trying for the "surfer-bum" look. He thinks it makes him look younger, more youthful, ya know.

ecossie possie wrote:Seranaz1..one tru witness you can find here. http://zimmermanscall.blogspot.ca/

Thanks ecossie!! :) I looked at each tab except the Intro, I think. lol

George Zimmerman evidence, including FBI interviews, to be released Thursday

Special Prosecutor Angela Corey on Thursday releases another round of evidence in her second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman, including a first look at what FBI agents have turned up in their civil rights investigation.

Nearly a dozen FBI agents interviewed several Sanford police officers, including the case's lead investigator, Chris Serino. They also talked to Zimmerman's former girlfriend, who accused him in court paperwork of being violent; neighbor Frank Taffee; several unidentified civilian witnesses and several gun shop employees, including those who worked at the store where Zimmerman bought the gun he used to shoot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

Summaries or copies of those interviews will be in the new evidence, but there'll be no official finding by the FBI or the agency overseeing the federal investigation, the Civil Rights Division of theU.S. Department of Justice.

The DOJ began its probe after protesters held rallies around the country and national civil rights leaders — including the national president of the NAACP, the Rev. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and several members of Congress — accused Sanford police of doing a shoddy, racially-biased investigation and refusing to arrest Zimmerman.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-11/news/os-george-zimmerman-plus-20120711_1_trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-special-prosecutor-angela-corey