Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

by Puzzler Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:48 am

Puzzler wrote:
ecossie possie wrote:ooops forgot link ,, https://2img.net/h/i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/misszandra/trayvon/witnessmap.jpg

I've seen this photo before and there was some written information that it was to scale (words to that effect).

Toward the bottom of the picture, there is a horizontal yellow arrow going from building to building, that indicates 50 ft.

At the top of the picture, there is a vertical yellow arrow from the "T' downward, that indicates 50'.

Actual measurement of the two yellow lines are not the same length.

by ecossie possie Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:49 am

Sorry for confusion Elljay..I couldnt remember what the photo in link compared to yours was.An I ment to write pls DELETES If reapeating ect..Instead of deleate I wrote duplicate? DOH...I M O Elljay you are an always have been the Lady of the links.

by ellejay Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:16 am

Puzzler wrote:

Okay...it was a policeman who said that TMs hands were underneath him...right?

Why does every little detail have to have multiple answers? Sigh...

--yep---LE on the scene say the victims hands were underneath the body.

--george also says that he ( somehow......he "doesn't quite remember how.....") got on top of trayvon,after trayvon had been on top of him pummelling the life out of him---managed to get out his gun, SHOT! him---then spread his arms out..

---( just like the real cops do when they have secured their suspect..)

by Puzzler Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:17 am

ellejay wrote:
Puzzler wrote:

Okay...it was a policeman who said that TMs hands were underneath him...right?

Why does every little detail have to have multiple answers? Sigh...

--yep---LE on the scene say the victims hands were underneath the body.

--george also says that he ( somehow......he "doesn't quite remember how.....") got on top of trayvon,after trayvon had been on top of him pummelling the life out of him---managed to get out his gun, SHOT! him---then spread his arms out..

ellejay - TY

Clear as mud....

by justanopinion Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:19 am

Labadorable wrote:@EP - following brought chills done my spine. Because Trayvon (in my mind) was still a child. At 17 his mind is not even fully developed. And I know kids at that age and when they are encountered by what they interpret as 'threatening' situations they become frightened little kids.

In order for me to believe that T did some pre emptive strike against GZ, I would have to know more about his familial environment - how he saw adults/parents handle conflict. Because at 17 you are still developing your values/judgments and at an instinctual level I believe he would revert to what he knows from how authoritative men handle conflict. But what do I know ... lol

Trayvon rightly freaked an lunged for the gun hardly beleiveing he was sudenlly in a life or death strugggle .All the while he was screaming for help as wel an probably felt some hope when neighbour sintevened an said they were calling 911..

Labradoodle I agree with you. My neighbour's son is 17 and he talks a good talk... and when he is in a verbal altercation with other 16-17 year olds has no problem being an aggressor... but here is the interesting thing... there was an incident this summer where he was confronted by an adult (smaller older guy) and the adult smacked a cigarette out of his hand... he ran home and told parents and called Police, reported an assault.. but like I said has been very physical and assaultive with peers.

by KZ Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:19 am

Well, now we know who the "air marshal" is.

Zimmerman’s cop connection in Trayvon Martin case
New evidence shows the defendant counts a law enforcement officer as a close adviser

Documents from the FBI and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement suggest indirectly that Zimmerman’s closest adviser in the aftermath of the Trayvon Martin shooting has been a federal agent – a US air marshal and former Seminole County sheriff’s deputy identified by the Miami Herald as a man named Mark Osterman.

Mr. Osterman was at Zimmerman’s side as he returned to the scene of the crime the day after the shooting to go over what happened with detectives.

The Herald also reported that Zimmerman and Osterman were shooting buddies.....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48187259/ns/us_news-christian_science_monitor/

by Puzzler Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:41 am

KZ wrote:Well, now we know who the "air marshal" is.

Zimmerman’s cop connection in Trayvon Martin case
New evidence shows the defendant counts a law enforcement officer as a close adviser

Documents from the FBI and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement suggest indirectly that Zimmerman’s closest adviser in the aftermath of the Trayvon Martin shooting has been a federal agent – a US air marshal and former Seminole County sheriff’s deputy identified by the Miami Herald as a man named Mark Osterman.

Mr. Osterman was at Zimmerman’s side as he returned to the scene of the crime the day after the shooting to go over what happened with detectives.

The Herald also reported that Zimmerman and Osterman were shooting buddies.....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48187259/ns/us_news-christian_science_monitor/

I don't have a link at this time, but if I come across it later, I'll provide it.

I've read that the air marshall was also at Zim's wedding.

by Puzzler Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:45 am

Here you go, article at link pretty well describes Zim's and air marshal's relationship:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/13/2893981/air-marshal-took-zimmerman-in.html

Air marshal took Zimmerman in after shooting

(snip) He told authorities that his wife presided over Zimmerman’s wedding. Zimmerman’s marriage certificate lists Sondra Osterman as the person who presided over the ceremony. (snip)

by ellejay Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:51 am

Puzzler wrote:
ellejay wrote:

--yep---LE on the scene say the victims hands were underneath the body.

--george also says that he ( somehow......he "doesn't quite remember how.....") got on top of trayvon,after trayvon had been on top of him pummelling the life out of him---managed to get out his gun, SHOT! him---then spread his arms out..

ellejay - TY

Clear as mud....

--yep it is.

--george "somehow" gets on top of trayvon----splays his arms out (like a "real" cop would---W6 sees trayvon in this position from inside his townhome..)

--however, the REAL cops arrive minutes later--------trayvons arms/hands are now underneath the body-----trayvon, b/c he was DEAD did not do this-----george did----why?

by Puzzler Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:55 am

ellejay wrote:
Puzzler wrote:

ellejay - TY

Clear as mud....

--yep it is.

--george "somehow" gets on top of trayvon----splays his arms out (like a "real" cop would---W6 sees trayvon in this position from inside his townhome..)

--however, the REAL cops arrive minutes later--------trayvons arms/hands are now underneath the body-----trayvon, b/c he was DEAD did not do this-----george did----why?

Well, 2 say arms were out; LE says arms were underneath...guess the only thing that will answer that question is something that's not and will not be released to the public - photos of the body at the scene before it's moved...hopefully those kinds of pictures were taken.

And if Zim did anything with the arms - like put them underneath the body - then why would he disclose he had moved the arms out?

by ellejay Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:02 am

KZ wrote:Well, now we know who the "air marshal" is.---post snipped--

--we've learned a bit about mark lately KZ.

--he was @ the scene that night w/ shellie.
--went to SPD and waited in the lobby w/ shellie until george was released
--then took them both back to his house ( in lake mary.)where they stayed for 4-6 weeks.
--accompanied george to his LE interviews/and the reenactment
--he's a liar and was fired for it from the sheriff's dept....and is george's "mentor".
--has been his friend for years ( mark's wife worked w/ george/officiated at their wedding).
--he was captured on the MI bank surveillance that night at approx. 6:38 p.m. ( not sure what that means yet....but he was..)
--he was one of the 2 shown escorting george out this last time on bond (is he being paid by the $$$$upporters as a security person for george now?)

by serenaz1 Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:06 am

Puzzler wrote:Here you go, article at link pretty well describes Zim's and air marshal's relationship:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/13/2893981/air-marshal-took-zimmerman-in.html

Air marshal took Zimmerman in after shooting

(snip) He told authorities that his wife presided over Zimmerman’s wedding. Zimmerman’s marriage certificate lists Sondra Osterman as the person who presided over the ceremony. (snip)

Wonder if Mark is "Ken"? Heck, they could have been scamming some deal where Air Marshal Mark would 'escort' a fleeing George, like he was his 'prisoner'. Sounds like a Nicholas Cage movie! Very Happy

by ellejay Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:06 am

Puzzler wrote:

Well, 2 say arms were out; LE says arms were underneath...guess the only thing that will answer that question is something that's not and will not be released to the public - photos of the body at the scene before it's moved...hopefully those kinds of pictures were taken.

And if Zim did anything with the arms - like put them underneath the body - then why would he disclose he had moved the arms out?

--no clue.

--kinda like why would he say it all happened at the "T"----when a 3 year old can see that makes zero sense.

by serenaz1 Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:08 am

ellejay wrote:
KZ wrote:Well, now we know who the "air marshal" is.---post snipped--

--we've learned a bit about mark lately KZ.

--he was @ the scene that night w/ shellie.
--went to SPD and waited in the lobby w/ shellie until george was released
--then took them both back to his house ( in lake mary.)where they stayed for 4-6 weeks.
--accompanied george to his LE interviews/and the reenactment
--he's a liar and was fired for it from the sheriff's dept....and is george's "mentor".
--has been his friend for years ( mark's wife worked w/ george/officiated at their wedding).
--he was captured on the MI bank surveillance that night at approx. 6:38 p.m. ( not sure what that means yet....but he was..)
--he was one of the 2 shown escorting george out this last time on bond (is he being paid by the $$$$upporters as a security person for george now?)

This case has some really crazy twists & turns, doesn't it?

by ellejay Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:22 am

serenaz1 wrote:
ellejay wrote:

--we've learned a bit about mark lately KZ.

--he was @ the scene that night w/ shellie.
--went to SPD and waited in the lobby w/ shellie until george was released
--then took them both back to his house ( in lake mary.)where they stayed for 4-6 weeks.
--accompanied george to his LE interviews/and the reenactment
--he's a liar and was fired for it from the sheriff's dept....and is george's "mentor".
--has been his friend for years ( mark's wife worked w/ george/officiated at their wedding).
--he was captured on the MI bank surveillance that night at approx. 6:38 p.m. ( not sure what that means yet....but he was..)
--he was one of the 2 shown escorting george out this last time on bond (is he being paid by the $$$$upporters as a security person for george now?)

This case has some really crazy twists & turns, doesn't it?

--he also flat out says that he works for the Department of Homeland Security on his public facebook-----isn't that supposed to be "secret" if you're an air marshall ...?
--he also says that other than him, george has no other close friends .
--shocker.
--they're both idiots.

https://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=Mark+Osterman&init=public#!/mark.osterman.1
--mark osterman F/B.

by Puzzler Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:32 am

serenaz1 wrote:
ellejay wrote:

--we've learned a bit about mark lately KZ.

--he was @ the scene that night w/ shellie.
--went to SPD and waited in the lobby w/ shellie until george was released
--then took them both back to his house ( in lake mary.)where they stayed for 4-6 weeks.
--accompanied george to his LE interviews/and the reenactment
--he's a liar and was fired for it from the sheriff's dept....and is george's "mentor".
--has been his friend for years ( mark's wife worked w/ george/officiated at their wedding).
--he was captured on the MI bank surveillance that night at approx. 6:38 p.m. ( not sure what that means yet....but he was..)
--he was one of the 2 shown escorting george out this last time on bond (is he being paid by the $$$$upporters as a security person for george now?)

This case has some really crazy twists & turns, doesn't it?

It appears that Osterman and Zim have been friends for some time.

by serenaz1 Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:23 am

ellejay wrote:
--he also flat out says that he works for the Department of Homeland Security on his public facebook-----isn't that supposed to be "secret" if you're an air marshall ...?
--he also says that other than him, george has no other close friends .
--shocker.
--they're both idiots.

https://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=Mark+Osterman&init=public#!/mark.osterman.1
--mark osterman F/B.

Yeah, I always thought it was supposed to be secret too. I would laugh my ass off if he got fired for publicizing his job on Facebook...or if we found out he's a big fat liar too and that he really works for Homie Land Security! Cool

by serenaz1 Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:28 am

Puzzler wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:

This case has some really crazy twists & turns, doesn't it?

It appears that Osterman and Zim have been friends for some time.

Yes and it seems Homeland Security isn't very picky about who they employ. Someone who lied/scammed a law enforcement agency wouldn't be at the top of my list for that type of job. As a matter of fact, since I pay his salary, I have a BIG problem with him now. shifty

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:31 am

ellejay wrote:
Labadorable wrote:Sharing some excellent interactive analysis of the crime scene map from an individual JD at the following link: http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/07/13/zimmerman-case-who-uttered-the-terrified-scream-for-help-punctuated-by-a-gunshot/

Following is cut & paste from JD's posting.

--oh wow-----these maps are awesome "labradorable".

--i especially love the comparison to yankee stadium-----showing the distance that george "stumbled"--the ONE time he mentions this stumble--during the reenactment/walkthrough , when he surely realizes that he HAS to get himself/trayvon down from the "T" ---(fails miserably b/c a stumble or 2 just ain't gonna do it..)--- ( in his other interviews he got punched in the nose and fell smack right there at the "T"..)

YANKEE STADIUM. Distance GZ claims he stumbled, for comparison.

"Imagine a batter hit by an inside pitch stumbling to the pitcher's mound. This is the distance GZ claims he stumbled the ONE time he recalls this movement......45.25 Feet.

Here are his other statements about how the altercation went from standing to prone.

first interview 26 FEB part one with Singleton

"I fell to the ground when he punched me the first time"
"as soon as he punched me i fell backwards into the grass."
"and he punched me in the nose. At that point, I fell down…"

Fantastic map. Puts this in perspective nicely. However, I have to laugh at the thought of GZ stumbling 45 feet! I sure hope the prosecutor is paying attention!

by Gizmo711 Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:44 am

I believe that this case is going to ride on the actual evidence, the 911 calls will play the biggest roll. The fact that Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon from the onset. Then the location of Trayvons body (no where in the direction of Zimmermans car) but in the direction of where Trayvon was staying. The fact that Trayvon belonged where he was, only had a bag of skittles on him and a can of ice tea in his pocket (this shows that Trayvon didn't even have a chance to get the can out of his pocket to try and use as a weapon). If I am positioning myself to attack someone I will use whatever is available to me (which in this case would have been the can of ice tea). Trayvon was happened upon when he least expected it, he thought he had shaken the man that was following him when out of nowwhere he appeared again. The cell phone being on the ground would indicate to me that Trayvon tried in vain to use that against his attacker.

As for eye witnesses, most of them looked out when the screaming occured but couldn't detect who it was screaming and couldn't see too well in the dark. Circumstantial evidence goes alot further then eye witnesses, eye witnesses are almost always wrong.

Zimmerman used the fact that he was captain of citiznes patrol to make himself look better to LE but denies that he was on duty that night, why? because he knew that this would cause a bigger problem with him being on duty carrying a loaded gun. Zimmerman uses whatever comes to his mind that would be benificial to him but the prosecution will rip him to threads.

I don't think they will be able to prove who was screaming, but it would fall to reason that it was the person who had the gun pointed at him. No way is someone who is holding a loaded gun at the subject be screaming (it doesn't make an ounce of sense)...plus the fact that the screaming ceased instantainiously upon the weapon being fired.

Zimmerman knew that it was the screams that brought the neighbors out so he had to say it was him screaming for his self defense claim.

As Ellejay stated, he didn't even call for an ambulance for the person he just shot, he knew he fired to kill.

by WeeBonnie Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:15 am

He knew witnesses saw him mess around with Trayvons hands. All the witnesses immediately thought Trayvon was dead- I.e. no motion, no words, no threat. He pretended here was a threat because people saw him messing with he body.

There are two possible reasons GZ went in and staged his body- to get fingerprints and DNA from Trayvon on himself or his gun. Because he knew he had to say there was a close fight and struggle over the gun. And/ Or to reposition the body because he felt it would give away the fact that he was not in the position GZ says he was. Perhaps poor Trayvon had his arms up in surrender and GZ thought that the position looked bad for him. Tucked down under his body would be he furthest you get from hands up. Also at some point the gun was in the grass and he thought to get both their prints on it. It appears he immediately did whatever he could to stage things.
I think he knew right away the following thing was wrong and tossed his keys.

Everytime GZ says he doesnt know or did something because he's scared of Trayvon, you have to look deeper. That's where he's covering up.
This are his two stock excuses for all odd bahaviour.

ellejay wrote:
Puzzler wrote:

ellejay - TY

Clear as mud....

--yep it is.

--george "somehow" gets on top of trayvon----splays his arms out (like a "real" cop would---W6 sees trayvon in this position from inside his townhome..)

--however, the REAL cops arrive minutes later--------trayvons arms/hands are now underneath the body-----trayvon, b/c he was DEAD did not do this-----george did----why?

by WeeBonnie Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:23 am

I read yesterday that they met in 96 or 97.
Which struck me as funny because people were originally referring to him as the "Ten Year Friend" and I'm wondering if that's another little lie.
It jus seems like a habit with GZ at this point, doesn't it?

Puzzler wrote:

It appears that Osterman and Zim have been friends for some time.

by ellejay Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:25 am

serenaz1 wrote:
Puzzler wrote:

It appears that Osterman and Zim have been friends for some time.

Yes and it seems Homeland Security isn't very picky about who they employ. Someone who lied/scammed a law enforcement agency wouldn't be at the top of my list for that type of job. As a matter of fact, since I pay his salary, I have a BIG problem with him now.

--when the additional 140+ jail phone calls are released (monday @ 11 a.m. EST) i wonder if there will be any between george and his BFF mark? it would seem to me that at some point (george after all was on the phone 16 times a day) that he would have spoken w/ him.

--although in his april 26th FDLE/FBI interview mark says that he hasn't spoken w/ george since he turned himself in (april 12th.)

--i also wonder now that we know that mark showed up @ the scene ( and "didn't speak w/ the officers or george "in depth") --was he the one that took the pic of george's bloody head (and sold it to ABC to splash out there the morning of the 1st bond hearing?)

--shellie also told george, when they were discussing buying bullet proof vests, that someone on their "safety council" would let them borrow "official" BPV's.....IF that person was mark, i wonder what his boss @ homeland security would think about him loaning out their BPV's to an accused murderer.)

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:39 am

Gizmo,
If I understand correctly, with SYG defense GZ would have to take the stand for a hearing prior to the trial. He would have to testify and be subject to cross examination. All Indications are he will NOT maintain the claim as he does NOT want to be cross examined by the state prosecutors. The defense will probably be thrown out which means it can not be used at trial. It does not mean the defense will not try to get it in or hinted at for a trial jury but it will be struck down by a judge.

ellejay-- Is Mark the air marshall? (As the AM supposedly advised GZ as to which guns to purchase and took him to target practice, etc, I was wondering if he owned a gun store or was closely associated with someone who does, perhaps a family member ?)

by ellejay Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:42 am

WeeBonnie wrote:I read yesterday that they met in 96 or 97.
Which struck me as funny because people were originally referring to him as the "Ten Year Friend" and I'm wondering if that's another little lie.
It jus seems like a habit with GZ at this point, doesn't it?

Puzzler wrote:

It appears that Osterman and Zim have been friends for some time.

--in mark's FDLE/FBI interview it states:

--"mark 1st met georgeZ through (redacted) wife (redacted) sometime between 2006-2007."

--i think the confusion over the "10 years" is b/c mark's interview begins by saying that "for the past 10 years"---mark has been employed blah di blah...

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf
--doc dump---mark interview--page 77.

by KZ Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:56 am

Ahh-- thank you ellejay for the overnight update. A pic of Mark and Sondra Osterman, and a little more history:
(Sondra is a loan processor....AND officiated at Zimmerman's wedding? Did I get that right? If so, interesting career combination.)

Osterman, 44, met Zimmerman around 2006, through his wife, Sondra, who worked with Zimmerman at a mortgage-services company. Zimmerman was a loan originator; Sondra Osterman a loan processor. They later worked together at a different company, Digital Risk.

In his interview with the FBI and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Mark Osterman said he visited Zimmerman’s house some 50 times. The two men went shooting together about once a month, often to Gander Mountain shooting range, he said.

Osterman told authorities that his wife presided over Zimmerman’s wedding. Zimmerman’s wedding certificate lists Sondra Osterman as the person who presided over the ceremony.

Read more: http://globalgrind.com/news/us-air-marshal-mark-osterman-took-george-zimmerman-in-trayvon-martin-details#ixzz20hsUz6yw George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6 - Page 8 Ccc4163f

George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6 - Page 8 Ccc4163f

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:03 pm

KZ-
Well, they say a picture is worth a thousand words.
That is one ugly pic. What, wannbe Bonnie and Clyde?
Is this the supposed AM? Shivers. (Our country is really in trouble now.)

by Gizmo711 Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:04 pm

ellejay wrote:
Puzzler wrote:

ellejay - TY

Clear as mud....

--yep it is.

--george "somehow" gets on top of trayvon----splays his arms out (like a "real" cop would---W6 sees trayvon in this position from inside his townhome..)

--however, the REAL cops arrive minutes later--------trayvons arms/hands are now underneath the body-----trayvon, b/c he was DEAD did not do this-----george did----why?

excelent question Ellejay, why did he move Trayvons arms at all once he was shot? He should have been trying to get help there to save him. Obviously he didn't want Trayvon to live. I wonder if any of Trayvons prints were found on anything of Zimmermans. If Zimmerman was so much into wanting to be a cop, he would have known not to contaminate the scene (but when the one who is involved with the shooting I guess that doesn't fit the scenerio).

Zimmerman had to think quick after the shooting, that's why I believe that was the reason for Zimmerman to immediately say that it was him screaming and nobody came, yet when one neighbor said he was going to call 911 Zimmerman thought enough to say that he already called them. Zimmerman was trying to cover his azz from the very get go.

But all his lies are going to come out once he is on that stand.

by Gizmo711 Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:07 pm

KZ wrote:Ahh-- thank you ellejay for the overnight update. A pic of Mark and Sondra Osterman, and a little more history:
(Sondra is a loan processor....AND officiated at Zimmerman's wedding? Did I get that right? If so, interesting career combination.)

Osterman, 44, met Zimmerman around 2006, through his wife, Sondra, who worked with Zimmerman at a mortgage-services company. Zimmerman was a loan originator; Sondra Osterman a loan processor. They later worked together at a different company, Digital Risk.

In his interview with the FBI and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Mark Osterman said he visited Zimmerman’s house some 50 times. The two men went shooting together about once a month, often to Gander Mountain shooting range, he said.

Osterman told authorities that his wife presided over Zimmerman’s wedding. Zimmerman’s wedding certificate lists Sondra Osterman as the person who presided over the ceremony.

Read more: http://globalgrind.com/news/us-air-marshal-mark-osterman-took-george-zimmerman-in-trayvon-martin-details#ixzz20hsUz6yw

So she's a notary in the state of Florida, where no test is required, only have to apply and be checked out. As for Mark, he too looks like a hoodlum just like Zimmerman. No wonder they got along so well.

by serenaz1 Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:08 pm

Thanks KZ & elle! I can't remember if we've heard of any proof that he was really 'expelled' from school after the shooting or if he just never went back.

Also, Mr Air Marshal, your friend does do drugs and personality changing ones at that, they're just legal ones.

by Gizmo711 Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:12 pm

ellejay wrote:
WeeBonnie wrote:I read yesterday that they met in 96 or 97.
Which struck me as funny because people were originally referring to him as the "Ten Year Friend" and I'm wondering if that's another little lie.
It jus seems like a habit with GZ at this point, doesn't it?

--in mark's FDLE/FBI interview it states:

--"mark 1st met georgeZ through (redacted) wife (redacted) sometime between 2006-2007."

--i think the confusion over the "10 years" is b/c mark's interview begins by saying that "for the past 10 years"---mark has been employed blah di blah...

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf
--doc dump---mark interview--page 77.

It's been about 10 years since "air marshals" were brought into play. Right after 911 and it wasn't that hard at the beginning to become one. Just like TSA, most of those employess were the same employees that were screeners and made minimum wage to starting at 42,000 as a TSA worker. It's not a big deal to know one of these "air Marshals" but I bet to Zimmerman it made him feel like a big shot.

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:14 pm

FBI report on Sanford PD investigator. Serino: 2 pages
Dated 1/05/2012 for report

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99942204/Serino-s-FBI-Interview-2-Pges-1

by Gizmo711 Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:15 pm

Freckles wrote:Gizmo,
If I understand correctly, with SYG defense GZ would have to take the stand for a hearing prior to the trial. He would have to testify and be subject to cross examination. All Indications are he will NOT maintain the claim as he does NOT want to be cross examined by the state prosecutors. The defense will probably be thrown out which means it can not be used at trial. It does not mean the defense will not try to get it in or hinted at for a trial jury but it will be struck down by a judge.

ellejay-- Is Mark the air marshall? (As the AM supposedly advised GZ as to which guns to purchase and took him to target practice, etc, I was wondering if he owned a gun store or was closely associated with someone who does, perhaps a family member ?)

Unless O'Mara tries to pull A Baez and say things at opening statements that he can't back up with true facts. Baez taught many lawyers out here on how to sway stupid juror's. I just hope that the jury picking goes better than the last one.

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:22 pm

Is this the AM carrying GZ bag?

http://globalgrind.com/news/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-judge-orders-release-jail-calls-witness-9-statements-details?gpage=1&#gtop

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:30 pm

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

page 88

---States various vid cameras on/near locations in the housing community were inoperative at time of crime.

Did GZ have keys to the community buildings?
Was GZ aware the cameras were in place?
Was GZ aware vids did NOT work?

In some states, to put up vid cameras for security and NOT maintain them (or put up dumbie cameras) is against the law as it provides "a false sense of security" fpr the public. I wonder if this is true in FL?

by Chickenbutt Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:33 pm

Good morning/afternoon to you all. Gotta read and catch up.

by Chickenbutt Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:35 pm

Puzzler wrote:
ellejay wrote:

--yep it is.

--george "somehow" gets on top of trayvon----splays his arms out (like a "real" cop would---W6 sees trayvon in this position from inside his townhome..)

--however, the REAL cops arrive minutes later--------trayvons arms/hands are now underneath the body-----trayvon, b/c he was DEAD did not do this-----george did----why?

Well, 2 say arms were out; LE says arms were underneath...guess the only thing that will answer that question is something that's not and will not be released to the public - photos of the body at the scene before it's moved...hopefully those kinds of pictures were taken.

And if Zim did anything with the arms - like put them underneath the body - then why would he disclose he had moved the arms out?

Do you think pics were taken before LE rolled him over and started CPR?

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:38 pm

On March 30, 2012, gun shop notified SPD GZ came into store @ 2 wks earlier looking to buy more guns as he stated his life was in danger.

P 91

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

by Chickenbutt Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:45 pm

serenaz1 wrote:Thanks KZ & elle! I can't remember if we've heard of any proof that he was really 'expelled' from school after the shooting or if he just never went back.

Also, Mr Air Marshal, your friend does do drugs and personality changing ones at that, they're just legal ones.

I agree about the drugs....mind altering and personality changing

by serenaz1 Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:48 pm

Gizmo711 wrote:

It's been about 10 years since "air marshals" were brought into play. Right after 911 and it wasn't that hard at the beginning to become one. Just like TSA, most of those employess were the same employees that were screeners and made minimum wage to starting at 42,000 as a TSA worker. It's not a big deal to know one of these "air Marshals" but I bet to Zimmerman it made him feel like a big shot.

Here's the Wiki on the history of the Air Marshals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal_Service

They are supposed to be anonymous, physically fit & agile to move around in tight spaces. Saying on FB that his job involves lots of travel & shooting while working for Homeland Security kinda blows his cover, I'd say.

by WeeBonnie Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:48 pm

That's been my theory. MOM is glad GZ is out so they can test his ability to stick to one story. (After they figure out which one it is)
But I think he mind find he needs to do this without Georges testimony.
If he finds a few people who "don't like to judge" it could work.

Gizmo711 wrote:
Freckles wrote:Gizmo,
If I understand correctly, with SYG defense GZ would have to take the stand for a hearing prior to the trial. He would have to testify and be subject to cross examination. All Indications are he will NOT maintain the claim as he does NOT want to be cross examined by the state prosecutors. The defense will probably be thrown out which means it can not be used at trial. It does not mean the defense will not try to get it in or hinted at for a trial jury but it will be struck down by a judge.

ellejay-- Is Mark the air marshall? (As the AM supposedly advised GZ as to which guns to purchase and took him to target practice, etc, I was wondering if he owned a gun store or was closely associated with someone who does, perhaps a family member ?)

Unless O'Mara tries to pull A Baez and say things at opening statements that he can't back up with true facts. Baez taught many lawyers out here on how to sway stupid juror's. I just hope that the jury picking goes better than the last one.

by CherokeeNative Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:51 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:Thanks KZ & elle! I can't remember if we've heard of any proof that he was really 'expelled' from school after the shooting or if he just never went back.

Also, Mr Air Marshal, your friend does do drugs and personality changing ones at that, they're just legal ones.

I agree about the drugs....mind altering and personality changing

I agree All - Adderall and Temazepam both cause side effects. I have known a couple of people who take these drugs and they become aggitated for absolutely no reason or over very minor things - to the extreme... where reasonable people would just shrug it off. I really don't think this is something LE should shrug off when it comes to GZ - even though they failed to administer a chemical test on GZ the night of. JMHO Very Happy

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:51 pm

p 115
The interviewee (business owner ? manager ?) states while he did not know GZ one of his employees is GZ' neighbor.

---Anyone know who this person is? Business is in St Mary.

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:54 pm

p 116
--- What is known of the gangs in the area and their dress, etc.

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

by Chickenbutt Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:57 pm

CN, even if they didn't drug test GZ, he readily admits to taking the meds. So if the Pros does their job well, they will research it and bring it up during trial.

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:59 pm

p 123

--After the murder GZ went door-to-door introducing himself to the residents and telling them he was NW.

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

by ecossie possie Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:03 pm

Remember in Georges world he kbew people alerted by the shouts an sonds of fightimg.He knew he messed with Travons arms after he shot him.He wasnt sure though who might have seen him.So he concocted the spread eagle scenario in case anyone said I saw him messing with his arms..The fact that Trayvons arms didnt match up with what he described never entered his head.He was maintaining that after he shot Trayvon point blank he was alive an kicking talking an cussing,,So in GZ world he could have retracted his own arms back under his body after GZ stood up when L E arrived instantly..Wich again wasnt the case diffrent wittnesess have said he got up walked an paced for a bit untill police arrived..

by CherokeeNative Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:06 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:CN, even if they didn't drug test GZ, he readily admits to taking the meds. So if the Pros does their job well, they will research it and bring it up during trial.

Well, you know CB, that the defense is going to bring up GZ's ADHD in order to compensate for the inconsistencies in his stories....that would be an opportune time to bring in the adderall, etc., but I don't know - is it a bad or good thing to bring up to the jury? I would have to think long and hard on that if I were the prosecutor.... But in any event, the fact that the State of Florida allows persons on these types of medications to have a CWP is worrisome in my opinon. Who wants easily aggitated, paranoid people running around with a gun on their hip? Not me.

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:09 pm

p 132
-- GZ most recent employment: history, interviewee at business had atty presentm Senior Management Acct. analyst; stated SHE has known GZ @ 2 yrs, never socialized with GZ or his wife.

(This isn't Mark's Osterson's ? wife is it?)

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

by Chickenbutt Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:13 pm

I see your point CN. Would you rather Fla give a CWP permit to an ADHD person NOT on meds? I think its a damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda scenario.
I am going to go look at the CWP requirements. Anyone got that handy?

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