George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

When Judge Lester wrote up the order, we have to take into consideration that Florida laws are a little different that some other states. The sunshine law is that all gets publicized. Lester didn't have to watch his wording due to this. Bond is based on, not only a suspect having the money to flee with but how strong a case is against the suspect and the charge against him (this determines whether he is a flight risk or not).

Because Florida publicized everything does not mean that it shouldn't be there, the judge is not going to go against what he is supposed to do because of the Sunshine laws.

Judge Lester had to write up the order accordingly to his findings in the reports. In the states where nothing is publicized, I'm sure a judge would write the order the same way Judge Lester did in order to raise his bond to one million dollars. Nothing can be changed just because the public will be seeing it.

ecossie possie wrote:i HOPE If J Lester does remove himself a woman Judge replaces him.After al Trayvon was a child an a Female Judge will have strong maternal instincts towards an inoccent child...Are any of thease Female Judges African American? That would be great if he ends up with a female African American Judge with children Trayvons age..M O M will be spitting feathers an yet will have to suck it up.An the Last Refuge of Scoundrels blog will be shouting Foul from the roof tops.

I agree, a woman judge will probably be more sensitive to Trayvons mother. But I doubt that O'Mara is going to ask for Judge Lester to step down. A judge is only a referee he doesn't call the shots as to innocents or guilt. Judge Strickland stepped down and Judge Perry was more strict than Strickland. I'm sure that when that trial was going on that Baez was sorry that he had requested Strickland to step down. (but of course it went in Baes favor, but due to the jury, not the judge).

I think we have to worry about the jury more than the judge in this case. All we need is ONE of those donors to be on that jury and Zimmerman will walk.

snowbird wrote:Looking at George's hands you would think he would have some defensive wounds if he was trying to defend himself from a person who was beating him from an inch of his life. If his head was being banged on the side walk you would attempt to put your hands behind your head to stop it from hitting sidewalk. His hands look to go for I guy who was trying to defend himself from assault.

Nothing George says makes any sense. It could not have happened the way he claims. There is no way that Zimmerman started this whole thing, ended it with a gun shot to Trayvon and think that it will be believed that in the interim, Trayvon became the agressor and George had to shoot in self defense. The only possible, logical explanation is that Trayvon was defending (or trying to defend) himself against an attacker (George Zimmerman), but lost the fight because the stalker had a loaded gun. It certainly isn't the first time where the bad guy wins the fight.

The 911 tapes will hold alot in this case. They will go to prove that Zimmerman was infact chasing Trayvon. The spot where Trayvon was killed will go to show that the meeting didn't take place at the "T" but rather on route to where Trayvon was staying. Zimmermans statements to LE will also hang him, one cannot add or take off from what they say happened to suit themselves. The only person that can tell what happened in Zimmerman, therefore even the smallest lie will hang him. His credibility has already been shot down, it's going to be very hard for him to be believed on that stand. Therefore it is going to rely on the 911 tapes and any other evidence that the state has. It doesn't look too good for Zimmerman.

Gizmo MOM is asking to get Lester off the case. People posted about it late Friday afternoon. Also did you know that Cher has owned doggies named Gizmo and Bonnie? Ha ha.

Gizmo711 wrote:

ecossie possie wrote:i HOPE If J Lester does remove himself a woman Judge replaces him.After al Trayvon was a child an a Female Judge will have strong maternal instincts towards an inoccent child...Are any of thease Female Judges African American? That would be great if he ends up with a female African American Judge with children Trayvons age..M O M will be spitting feathers an yet will have to suck it up.An the Last Refuge of Scoundrels blog will be shouting Foul from the roof tops.

I agree, a woman judge will probably be more sensitive to Trayvons mother. But I doubt that O'Mara is going to ask for Judge Lester to step down. A judge is only a referee he doesn't call the shots as to innocents or guilt. Judge Strickland stepped down and Judge Perry was more strict than Strickland. I'm sure that when that trial was going on that Baez was sorry that he had requested Strickland to step down. (but of course it went in Baes favor, but due to the jury, not the judge).

I think we have to worry about the jury more than the judge in this case. All we need is ONE of those donors to be on that jury and Zimmerman will walk.

KZ wrote:

ecossie possie wrote:I said at the time when Judge Lester made the comment he beleived GZ was thwarted in his attempts to flee with other peoples money but couldnt because of ankle moniter.That if a Judge said that about me I would demand his removeall...I think the Judge wants off the case an hence he made those unprofesinall remarks..I M O GZ Had no intention of fleeing..Where could he go? Mexico?Canada..He wouldnt be hard to find travelling under his own name.GZ Has neither the street smarts or the work ethic to start a new life...Even the money he had up to that point wasnt enough to set him up with a new identity false papers ect.If he had intended to flee he wouldnt have informed M O M OF HIS RAINYDAY NEST EGG.A rental car rented in his own name an a ice cooler with drinks an snacks isnt a surviveal kit.He is no uni bomber able to live of the land an disssapear into the wilderness..GZ Is a wimp whom thinks he is going to beat this rap so fleeing was never on his mind..J Lester wants out of this political hot potato an will recuse himself M O O.

Great insight, ecossie. And I totally agree. I think all of the little "leaks" (like Lester's comment about the evidence being strong, and the odd- imo- comments about GZ planning to flee-- like THAT would be a realistic plan, lol!) are little bones thrown out to the defense....like, "if you want a different judge, so be it-- here is an excuse". Most judges who are asked to recuse themselves seldom dig in their heels and challenge the request, from what my sources tell me. To vigorously oppose a request to recuse themselves is to lay grounds for a messy appeal.

If Lester isn't on the trial, another good judge will be. For sure, another judge will be "different", but not necessarily better or "worse" than Lester. It's a roll of the dice-- but I'm sure there is speculation as to who is up to bat next.

I'm not worried about a new judge. I'd be very surprised if JLester stayed on to an actual trial. I have thought that he would have to be replaced from the time that he indicated his anger with GZ's lying-by-omission in the bondgate scandal, with "the evidence is strong against him"-- totally in opposition to what he had JUST ruled when he GRANTED bond the first time. Judge Lester has tipped his hand as to which side he leans toward-- and that says to me that he wouldn't be heartbroken to be "off" the case. The leaking of his leaning (lol) was pretty intentional. A judge of his caliber does NOT make mistakes when he parses his words.

**Calling Marinade Dave.....just wondering...do you know Judge Lester personally? Has he called you lately?**

I agree KZ - it doesn't matter if a new Judge steps in at this point, I believe they all will do a fine job. I suspect that MOM is doing this:

(1) to preserve it as an issue on appeal should Judge Lester not recuse himself and GZ loses a SYG motion/or at trial;

(2) to get a second bite at the apple, since Rule rule 2.160(h) allows a successor judge to reconsider, vacate, or amend any prior legal or factual rulings of a disqualified judge. This is accomplished by the filing of a motion for reconsideration within 20 days of the order of disqualification. MOM could then ask the successor judge to review the bond Order and lower the bond, change the requirements of the bond, etc. and

(3) to have the opportunity to have GZ tell his side of the story to the public, with his certification no less, in a pleading without GZ having to be cross-examined. IMO, MOM wanted GZ to be able to make an allocution at the 2nd bond hearing in order to try to sway public opinion of his client and this is a back-door method of doing it without having his client testify. He knows the news outlets are covering his every word. He also knows that the news outlets are covering every document filed by the prosecution or defense, so why not build his case that GZ did not initiate the altercation, that he was fighting for his life, that he shot Trayvon Martin out of self-defense. Much of the diatribe set out in footnotes and main portions of MOM's motion has little to do with the issue of whether Judge Lester should be disqualified, but everything to do with what potential jurors think of his client. This motion is a second chance at having the stage as the presses roll and the viewing public watches.

From my reading of MOM's motion and the applicable case authority, I believe Judge Lester would be right to deny the motion as being legally insufficient. That is, of course, IF Judge Lester wants to stay in the case - otherwise, this is an opportune time to kick the can to another Judge. As noted by the Florida Bar Ass'n, "a related principle mitigating against disqualification is that a judge is not required to abstain from forming mental impressions and opinions during the course of judicial proceedings. For instance, in Mobil v. Trask, 463 So. 2d 389 (Fla. 1st DCA 1985), a deputy commissioner’s remark to an employer/carrier’s attorney at a workers’ compensation hearing that 'I don’t see how you can’t find this accident compensable,' which comment related directly to the merits of the petitioner’s case, was nonetheless held to be insufficient to justify the granting of a recusal motion. And, in Brown v. Pate, 577 So. 2d 645 (Fla. 1st DCA 1991), the First District held that in a dependency adjudication of minor children following a father’s acquittal in the prosecution for the mother’s murder, the trial judge’s expression of 'grave concern' regarding the father’s visitation did not serve as a basis for judicial disqualification. Citing the rationale of the Mobil case, the court opined that, 'A judge may form mental impressions and opinions during the course of presentation of evidence so long as she does not prejudge the case.' Pate, 577 So. 2d at 647." See, http://www.floridabar.org/divcom/jn/jnjournal01.nsf/Author/E76978A5AA65A20585256ADB005D631E

No matter, if Judge Lester recuses himself - you can rest assured that the Judges talk and whomever takes over will be thoroughly familiar with the facts of this case and the lies of GZ and Shellie.

ellejay wrote:

Hinky Refugee wrote:

OMGOSH Let me hug you Ellijay! These are my lost photo's. I so wanted to look at them again after reading George had been allowed to go to the bathroom and wash up! TY so much! I saw them before the doc dump Thursday and kept saying to myself ok this guy has not been on his back in freshly soaked grass! You are awesome! Make me ashamed to even try to search for stuff...I just find stuff, lose it, then think I am nuts lol....

--you're welcome "hinky"...i just grabbed a few pics for you from the links Cher, Freckles and Bonnie provided....(hug them!)

--yep...his clothing certainly doesn't look like it's been dragged all over the sidewalk/lawn...in the rain no less.

--and let's take a look at his hands shall we------THESE (prissy things w/ absolutely NO cuts/marks/scratches) just fought off an aggressor that was in the process of killing him?..uh huh.

Thanks Ellejay - once again, you come to the rescue. If you look at the close-up photos of GZ's shoes, the toes of his boots have grass on them...that's the only place I see grass or wetness - which supports the theory that he was on his knees with the toes of his boots in the grass at some point. Now, he states that he jumped on top of Trayvon after shooting him to restrain Trayvon (who was already dead) and spread his arms out into a "T" - I have always wondered if this was done to compensate for his toes and knees being wet to LE. Whatever, I certainly don't see ANY signs that he was ever on his back in the wet, soaking grass, scooting himself around which would have surely caused mud to rise and adhere to his jacket. I call B.S. once again George.

One other thing - in one of the video statements, Sireno comments that GZ has no defensive wounds on his hands or arms and states that maybe that is because GZ's coat protected them..... but if GZ didn't have his coat on - that is not an excuse for no defensive wounds; plus, his coat would not have protected against defensive wounds on his hands. And as Ellejay clearly points out - GZ's hands look like they haven't done anything except push a pencil around.

GZ stating he had jumped on Trayvon and spread Trayvon's arms out in the "tee" formation: This is what you see PD officers do on TV to restrain a live suspect. IMO, GZ is trying to duplicate or imitate LE's actions.

From what I have seen, GZ wanted to be a LE so he could have power, authority over others. Taking classes, doing NW, owning the gun, carrying the gun and flashlight, buddying up to LE with the rid-a-longs, many calls to PD (so they would know he was one of them") all came from some script GZ had written in his head. Even the stupid statements he attributes to Trayvon as Trayvon lay dead come off rather hokey.

GZ, IMO, is trying to get the attention and approval of his father and the community. "See, Dad? I am as good as you!" At the same time, GZ wants the authority he saw his father have.

JMO. (And yes, I spot GZ' lies ALL over the place. Just listening to the interrogation from a page back reinforces his lies. GZ pauses too much to think rather than recite; he embellishes and he repeats himself as if to reinforce certain statements and commit those "brilliant" thoughts to memory.)

I know George Z is impulsive but no way was he going to flee.. F F F by comiting murder he seemed to be getting everything he wanted.Fame Money ,Reconcilliation from his familly REVENGE...On his allegedlly abusive mother an father whom enabled it...He got to off a bad guy mmmm a mugger he told a co worker .But he is OK ...George that is ...TRAYVON not so good he DEAD....Funny enough that offhand comment by George is the only truth George has uyyered about the entire tragic event...MUGGING doesnt just mean robbing someone .It also means to stare .To mug someone off is to make eye contact an refuse to break off.To do so to a stranger is a very male macho type juvinile BS...I do beleive Trayvon hurt GZ Pride an he say him as a terretorial threat..Trayvon also had a small flashlight in his waist understandable thewre were dark cut throughs in a place he wasnt to familiar with.In the non emergncy call when GZ Voice gets high nervous sounding he says....He s checking ne out now...Trayvon wasnt circling him or checking him out ...He was walking past him .As we now no GZ had spotted him an drove past him almost at a crawl an then parked in front of him..Trayvon had no option but to walk past him.....But Trayvon was aware he was being watched ffs he had just been cerb crawled by a dude on the phone..So I think Trayvon pulled out his flashlight from his waist .When GZ voice starts to get high pitched.,,,I dont know what his deal is he got something in his waist his hands in his waist...This was Trayvon pulling out his flashlight an scanning GZ vechicle probable indicating he got his tag registraton number..GZ how dare this punk shine his torch at me.So he jumps out an now he gonna show whos got the best brightest torch....An GZ is well an truely pizzed gotta get rid of the L E Disspatcher so he can find this guy,,,Basicly tells them forgett directions call me later when you arrive..The kind of excuse you give to a date you want to ditch,,An it could be A dud battery that flipped GZ over the edge that toy didnt work so he upgraded an used his other big boy toy...Haveing learned he was carrying a gun pistol known as a cop killer when he was re arrested? The guy knows he was being arrested right .An yet he takes a gun to the cop shop....????I think we are lucky ole george boy never plugged another person through the heart because he Felt he knew whom he was an he Felt like the can of pepsi was a I E D..an the tube of polos was a gun...So over night GZ is a celeb /hero/ once dissowned son back in the fold .An then the money starts to roll in.All the stress of debt POOOPH its magiclly dissapeared.An whats more you now have money lots of it in your bank accounts.Things like safe deposit boxes dissposable income words younthought would never apply tp you .Five bedroom beach houses out of state.All that wouls have dissapeared if he had gone on the run....That means anonimity ...Annonimity means no money no bank account in your name .No Peter Pan money....No contact from family you have finaly regained some love from..Going on the run means no more hero .Remember in GZ World the events acording to him are true.He thinks he will walk away from this an live the life he has always deserved.Get a big house reality tv show.Boooks magazines movie the whole nine yards.Never in a million years would he walk away from that..Yeah I know he is stupid but he is also deluded an he is never going to run on this.Besides its to high medis for him to ever do it.His is one of the most known faces in America /World...Like I say though I M O He has never even contenplated fleeing..But the main reason Judge has to recuse him is compound into 3 parts ..This is what I would argue as a defendant to refuse this judge...4 points actually but the 4th comes after the 3....A..This Judge has proven that he is no fair /impartal/unbiased/ in his opinion concerning my guilt..In fact he has said in open court that the state has a strong case.Even if the Judge had said this in camera or in chambers would be suffice to show that by stateing the States case as strog immplys that my case in defence is weak..That is not impartial and he has let the world an it dog know via media that he thinks Im guilty...B...Haveing had my bail revoked correctly I may add I was granted a hearing regarding bond..At the bond hearing to assertain wether I was fit an proper to be granted said bond.You stattes you would give written statement regarding bond an my entitlement thereoff.In the written summatation you handed down once again you made rerance to your beleif of my charecter an likelyhood to commit crimes .You surrmised that I was prepared to abscond useing money raised through PP an that only the gps ankle moniter set stopped me from fleeing.Again thease sentiments an beleifs of yours would be bad enough if expressed to me in a private setting..The fact that they have been stated in such a public manner only compounds the issue...C...Also in the above mentioned document regarding my second bail bond for one million dollars .You alluded to the high money bond being set because of lies told about money an my complicity in said lies .This is of course perjury .You called me a perjurour by ommision?You called me a potted plant?....Could you please point me in the direction of any potted plant that has commited perjury....D In summation Sir I think you should recluse yourself from the bench.As you have shown in your own words a blatant bias as regards my guilt.And thats not even concerning the Second Degree Murder Acusation.You have continueally refranced my guilt in your opinion of two seriuos criminall acts ie fleeing the court..And this is pure fantasy not even conjecture on your honnours behalf.At all times I obayed crfew an reported to probaton interveiws,As soon as my attorney learned of my arrest we arranged to surrender at Jacksonville Police St.Wich we did comply ,I have not been arrested for perjury nor have I been chardged with perjury so I feel it is tottaly unconstitutinal for a Juadge whom will be sitting over a case concerning the death of one young man .An the possable life imprisonment of another young man should be showing blatant bia as to his beleif that this defendant is of low charecter and a liar for sure even though neither has been established as fact in a court of law.....An one thing I know for sure this Judge is no MUG,,an he wouldnt leave himself widw open like that unless he wants oot..An he wants ou t i m o Hw will step down,Strikland was no mug neither an he soon found out he wanted as fas as poss away from the circus toxic mess that was INJUSTICE..as justus wanted CAYLEE To have her day in court it never happened..But Caylee gets a day in evrybodys hearts every one of us.An mumster trunkster will live in self inflikted prison for ever....Any way to make a long post longer ..I predict the defence will get there wish .A new Judge ...An a double predict ..Soon after the phrase..Be carefull what you wish for springs to mind...........

Ecossie in America mugged means an individual being robbed. I think he just lied to his coworker.
If he wanted to say he was just randomly attacked he could have said jumped.

Freckles wrote:GZ stating he had jumped on Trayvon and spread Trayvon's arms out in the "tee" formation: This is what you see PD officers do on TV to restrain a live suspect. IMO, GZ is trying to duplicate or imitate LE's actions.

From what I have seen, GZ wanted to be a LE so he could have power, authority over others. Taking classes, doing NW, owning the gun, carrying the gun and flashlight, buddying up to LE with the rid-a-longs, many calls to PD (so they would know he was one of them") all came from some script GZ had written in his head. Even the stupid statements he attributes to Trayvon as Trayvon lay dead come off rather hokey.

GZ, IMO, is trying to get the attention and approval of his father and the community. "See, Dad? I am as good as you!" At the same time, GZ wants the authority he saw his father have.

JMO. (And yes, I spot GZ' lies ALL over the place. Just listening to the interrogation from a page back reinforces his lies. GZ pauses too much to think rather than recite; he embellishes and he repeats himself as if to reinforce certain statements and commit those "brilliant" thoughts to memory.)

The problem with Zimmerman's version of the events is that if he jumped on top of Trayvon's back (after he had shot him) and spread his arms apart, because he though that "he had something in his hands", how Trayvon's arms ended up underneath his body?

It is all over the shooting police report that when the detectives arrived at the scene of the crime, they found Trayvon laying face down in the grass with his arms underneath his body.

Ecossie - I understand what you are saying. And we will see what the outcome is within a few days. I understand that you believe the Judge overstepped his bounds by say the case against GZ was strong, and that GZ was flauting the justice system and trying to manipulate it. But unless Lester is wanting to step aside, I don't think that is enough to get Lester ousted - the only way we will know is if Lester refuses to step aside, and MOM brings a Writ to the Appellate Court. I would be curious to see what the outcome of thast would be, and we may very well get to see that. I do agree with the macho mentality of GZ in seeing Trayvon's walk past his truck as being a "come on." But Trayvon did not have a flash light.

GZs excuse for everything is that he was scared.
I know one witness said he was messing with his hands, and I always thought he was staging- thinking he should get prints or DNA on the gun.
There were some discrepancies to the gun- I think it was spotted on the ground at one point.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
The problem with Zimmerman's version of the events is that if he jumped on top of Trayvon's back (after he had shot him) and spread his arms apart, because he though that "he had something in his hands", how Trayvon's arms ended up underneath his body?

It is all over the shooting police report that when the detectives arrived at the scene of the crime, they found Trayvon laying face down in the grass with his arms underneath his body.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Freckles wrote:GZ stating he had jumped on Trayvon and spread Trayvon's arms out in the "tee" formation: This is what you see PD officers do on TV to restrain a live suspect. IMO, GZ is trying to duplicate or imitate LE's actions.

From what I have seen, GZ wanted to be a LE so he could have power, authority over others. Taking classes, doing NW, owning the gun, carrying the gun and flashlight, buddying up to LE with the rid-a-longs, many calls to PD (so they would know he was one of them") all came from some script GZ had written in his head. Even the stupid statements he attributes to Trayvon as Trayvon lay dead come off rather hokey.

GZ, IMO, is trying to get the attention and approval of his father and the community. "See, Dad? I am as good as you!" At the same time, GZ wants the authority he saw his father have.

JMO. (And yes, I spot GZ' lies ALL over the place. Just listening to the interrogation from a page back reinforces his lies. GZ pauses too much to think rather than recite; he embellishes and he repeats himself as if to reinforce certain statements and commit those "brilliant" thoughts to memory.)

The problem with Zimmerman's version of the events is that if he jumped on top of Trayvon's back (after he had shot him) and spread his arms apart, because he though that "he had something in his hands", how Trayvon's arms ended up underneath his body?

It is all over the shooting police report that when the detectives arrived at the scene of the crime, they found Trayvon laying face down in the grass with his arms underneath his body.

I agree Allessandra - and I am curious to see how GZ will explain this change in Trayvon's body position because his story goes completely against the first respondng officer's report. This is a major discrepancy in my opinion...as are so many of GZ's other renditions of what occurred.

Ecossie-
Interesting points you make. It sounds as if GZ has a desperate need for attention and saw the issues with Trayvon (and now the judge) as nothing more than a "pissing" contest, if I understand you correctly?

Edited:
Was the one flashlight Trayvon's? That would be interesting. If Trayvon was actually getting a flashlight out. Would make sense. And GZ pulling ahead? Of course Trayvon would have to walk by his car! Probably look back at it wondering, "What is that guy doing moving his car up like that?"

Good points.

Freckles wrote:Edited:
Was the one flashlight Trayvon's? That would be interesting. If Trayvon was actually getting a flashlight out. ....

Both flashlights were Zimmerman's.

WeeBonnie wrote:GZs excuse for everything is that he was scared.
I know one witness said he was messing with his hands, and I always thought he was staging- thinking he should get prints or DNA on the gun.
There were some discrepancies to the gun- I think it was spotted on the ground at one point.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
The problem with Zimmerman's version of the events is that if he jumped on top of Trayvon's back (after he had shot him) and spread his arms apart, because he though that "he had something in his hands", how Trayvon's arms ended up underneath his body?

It is all over the shooting police report that when the detectives arrived at the scene of the crime, they found Trayvon laying face down in the grass with his arms underneath his body.

I completely get it that there will be some discrepancies - it is only normal to not remember everything exactly as it actually occurred, but in GZ's case, there are just too many inconsistencies, too many statements that are nonconforming to the evidence, and they are embellished or changed up completely between one statement and the next - Plus, none of his statements conform to the non-emergency taped call. From what I can see at this point - and I have been listing out each and every inconsistency and discrepancy on my own - the only thing that we can be sure GZ has told the truth about, as other web sites have also noticed - is, "I was driving..." MOM's job is cutout for him. He will be hard pressed to clarify these inconsistencies in GZ's statements without GZ testifying. And, if GZ does testify, he will be unable to explain the more important aspects of those inconsistencies...no matter how much coaching he will have had in advance, he just won't be able to stick to the script given to him by MOM...he will have to embelish it and that is where he will go down.

IMO GZ has to testify. He has no choice. How the jury views that testimony will decide the verdict. Once the defendant takes the stand the only decision the jury makes is whether he is a truthful person. Even the whitest of lies can damage his credibility. MOM has already made one incredible mistake IMO. In order to re-obtain bail, MOM filed his motion for bail. Here is the first sentence of paragraph 10 of the motion:

“Mr. Zimmerman’s failure to advise the Court of the existence of the donated funds at the initial bail hearing was wrong and Mr. Zimmerman accepts responsibility for his part in allowing the Court to be misled as to his true financial circumstances.”

This is an admission that he allowed the court to be misled as to his true financial circumstances. This is about as far from "white" as you can get. Imagine how the cross-examination will go when he takes the stand. Isn't it true that you admitted that you misled the Court about your financial status when seeking bond?" "Your wife lied as well, didn't she?" "You knew that your financial status was an important issue, didn't you?" "But you lied anyway?" "You are facing a far more important decision today than just bail aren't you Mr. Zimmerman?" "If found guilty, you could spend a lot of time in jail, right?" "Isn't the incentive to lie today far greater than it was at the bond hearing?"

If he denies any of these questions he will be impeached with the admission in MOM's motion. He accepted responsibility for misleading the court. If GZ responds that, “I was scared. I had never been through a bond hearing before and didn’t know what to say,” etc., the prosecutor's question will be, "Isn’t the same true about his trial?" "Aren't you scared about the verdict of this trial?" "Why wouldn’t you be lying on the stand at trial if you would lie at a simple bond hearing where there is much less at stake?"

The fun the prosecution will have with this will be neverending. And before anyone questions admissibility, there is a Florida rule:

803(18) ADMISSIONS.–A statement that is offered against a party and is:
(a) The party’s own statement in either an individual or a representative capacity;
(b) A statement of which the party has manifested an adoption or belief in its truth;
(c) A statement by a person specifically authorized by the party to make a statement concerning the subject;
(d) A statement by the party’s agent or servant concerning a matter within the scope of the agency or employment thereof, made during the existence of the relationship; or
(e) A statement by a person who was a coconspirator of the party during the course, and in furtherance, of the conspiracy. Upon request of counsel, the court shall instruct the jury that the conspiracy itself and each member’s participation in it must be established by independent evidence, either before the introduction of any evidence or before evidence is admitted under this paragraph.

So, in cross-examination, the prosecutor will most likely be able to follow with this line of questioning. The above rule makes it clear that a party is bound by the statements of his agent. There is no clearer agency relationship than attorney-client. The attorney here made the admission on behalf of his client and thereby binds the client to it. There is a wealth of case law on this mainly on the federal side. US v. McKeon from the 2nd circuit is the most well known of the opinions. So GZ is screwed. His only out is to disavow his attorneys statement in the motion. One defendant in a federal case in the SDNY successfully argued the attorney made the statement without his knowledge and without his consent. GZ would need to act quickly or he waives that exception. And at $450 per hour, I would be questioning why my attorney made this HUGE mistake.

Re flashlight -->As @angela_nw stated it was Zimmerman's. And IMO Trayvon would consider a flashlight ancient. He would use his cellphone as a light - even if he did not have a smartphone - lets say a flip phone - he would simply use the keypad as illumination.

Sit in a theater with a movie genre geared toward teens - all you see are cell phone LEDs.

Of no value - I wonder what type of cell phone Trayvon had?

Labadorable wrote:Re flashlight -->As @angela_nw stated it was Zimmerman's. And IMO Trayvon would consider a flashlight ancient. He would use his cellphone as a light - even if he did not have a smartphone - lets say a flip phone - he would simply use the keypad as illumination.

Sit in a theater with a movie genre geared toward teens - all you see are cell phone LEDs.

Of no value - I wonder what type of cell phone Trayvon had?

Right =- Zimmerman had two flashlights. One was a tactical flashlight that was attached to his keychain and it was found on in the grass near the "T". He had a regular flashlight that was found in the debris field. As for Trayvon's phone, from looking at the photo of it in the grass, it looked like a smart phone, not a flip phone, but I can't say for positive.

Here is the link to the photos - the phone is #7 - See if you can tell whether it's a smart phone. http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/trayvon-zimmerman-case-photos/?album=1&gallery=1

@ecossie possie - I do believe that Lester may want out of this trial. Consciously or unconsciously?

If that is true .. then it might be interesting to see what "parting gift" Judge Lester gives to GZ before recusing himself!

Re: MOM filing this motion. Yes I believe he had to do it for appeal reasons. But can you imagine the chatter from GZ about how "unfair" Lester is toward him? Seriously, GZ is paranoid and Lester is his new "mortal enemy". Just some psychological blabber about a drama king.

@CN - thanks for link. Yes that looks that a smart phone.

re: GZ having 2 flashlights. totally JMCO (just my cynical opinion). This dud(e) was prepped for a survival expedition.

Labadorable - yeah, he was equiped like a undercover cop. I truly believe, as do others, that if it hadn't been Trayvon, it would have been someone else sooner or later. He was a ticking time bomb. JMHO....I like JMCO, by the way!!

@CN yes on GZ was "hunting" (that's my assessment) ... who the heck brings that type of gun to go to Target ... he took that literally!

JMCO ... it's me baby had it since '07 on my twitter page @slsmith

All true Cher! And while everyone believes GZ did drive, many speculate he was not parked when or where he said he was (the clubhouse and the second spot are both points of contention). And it further seems he might have been creeping along. I've seen good arguments for that.
I think MOM is happy to have him out because he is going to need a LOT of coaching and fine tuning of his meds of he's going to take the stand!

CherokeeNative wrote:

WeeBonnie wrote:GZs excuse for everything is that he was scared.
I know one witness said he was messing with his hands, and I always thought he was staging- thinking he should get prints or DNA on the gun.
There were some discrepancies to the gun- I think it was spotted on the ground at one point.

I completely get it that there will be some discrepancies - it is only normal to not remember everything exactly as it actually occurred, but in GZ's case, there are just too many inconsistencies, too many statements that are nonconforming to the evidence, and they are embellished or changed up completely between one statement and the next - Plus, none of his statements conform to the non-emergency taped call. From what I can see at this point - and I have been listing out each and every inconsistency and discrepancy on my own - the only thing that we can be sure GZ has told the truth about, as other web sites have also noticed - is, "I was driving..." MOM's job is cutout for him. He will be hard pressed to clarify these inconsistencies in GZ's statements without GZ testifying. And, if GZ does testify, he will be unable to explain the more important aspects of those inconsistencies...no matter how much coaching he will have had in advance, he just won't be able to stick to the script given to him by MOM...he will have to embelish it and that is where he will go down.

IMO GZ has to testify. He has no choice. How the jury views that testimony will decide the verdict. Once the defendant takes the stand the only decision the jury makes is whether he is a truthful person. Even the whitest of lies can damage his credibility. MOM has already made one incredible mistake IMO. In order to re-obtain bail, MOM filed his motion for bail. Here is the first sentence of paragraph 10 of the motion:

“Mr. Zimmerman’s failure to advise the Court of the existence of the donated funds at the initial bail hearing was wrong and Mr. Zimmerman accepts responsibility for his part in allowing the Court to be misled as to his true financial circumstances.”

This is an admission that he allowed the court to be misled as to his true financial circumstances. This is about as far from "white" as you can get. Imagine how the cross-examination will go when he takes the stand. Isn't it true that you admitted that you misled the Court about your financial status when seeking bond?" "Your wife lied as well, didn't she?" "You knew that your financial status was an important issue, didn't you?" "But you lied anyway?" "You are facing a far more important decision today than just bail aren't you Mr. Zimmerman?" "If found guilty, you could spend a lot of time in jail, right?" "Isn't the incentive to lie today far greater than it was at the bond hearing?"

If he denies any of these questions he will be impeached with the admission in MOM's motion. He accepted responsibility for misleading the court. If GZ responds that, “I was scared. I had never been through a bond hearing before and didn’t know what to say,” etc., the prosecutor's question will be, "Isn’t the same true about his trial?" "Aren't you scared about the verdict of this trial?" "Why wouldn’t you be lying on the stand at trial if you would lie at a simple bond hearing where there is much less at stake?"

The fun the prosecution will have with this will be neverending. And before anyone questions admissibility, there is a Florida rule:

803(18) ADMISSIONS.–A statement that is offered against a party and is:
(a) The party’s own statement in either an individual or a representative capacity;
(b) A statement of which the party has manifested an adoption or belief in its truth;
(c) A statement by a person specifically authorized by the party to make a statement concerning the subject;
(d) A statement by the party’s agent or servant concerning a matter within the scope of the agency or employment thereof, made during the existence of the relationship; or
(e) A statement by a person who was a coconspirator of the party during the course, and in furtherance, of the conspiracy. Upon request of counsel, the court shall instruct the jury that the conspiracy itself and each member’s participation in it must be established by independent evidence, either before the introduction of any evidence or before evidence is admitted under this paragraph.

So, in cross-examination, the prosecutor will most likely be able to follow with this line of questioning. The above rule makes it clear that a party is bound by the statements of his agent. There is no clearer agency relationship than attorney-client. The attorney here made the admission on behalf of his client and thereby binds the client to it. There is a wealth of case law on this mainly on the federal side. US v. McKeon from the 2nd circuit is the most well known of the opinions. So GZ is screwed. His only out is to disavow his attorneys statement in the motion. One defendant in a federal case in the SDNY successfully argued the attorney made the statement without his knowledge and without his consent. GZ would need to act quickly or he waives that exception. And at $450 per hour, I would be questioning why my attorney made this HUGE mistake.

Oh I get it now both torches were georges an he must have dropped one same time as his keks near the ..T..Or was it a small keychain attached to keys type torch..Im sure I read early on that a second smaller torch found possably being Trayvons .Hard to keep track as GZ gives so many different versions .None that match with the physicall evidence.He has Trayvon attacking him about 4 ft away from the T pathway.NOW THIS IS CRUCILE You are in Trayvons shoes your scared it cold wet an in a strange neighboor HOOD.Your excited about getting home to watch a favourate live sport event.SOME WEIRDO IS FOLLOWING YOU,iF You beleive GZ version of events.He lost sight of Trayvon an this statement was given when Trayvon was a John Doe unknown name of course unknown adress..This is how I knew he was lieinging straight away..To beleive George story of loseing sight of TM somewher at top of in the distance T other end of T path from where George is placed still ta;king to non emergancy about to end call.Say he walks straight along to next street?To get adress ?about turns an walks back along secluded unlit pathway to return to his truck.Gets afew feet short of the opposite T again near his truck an Trayvon Waylays sucker punched preceads to attemptet to murder him speaking dialouge from Scarface.Thing is George didnt know Trayvons adress when he gave that speil.He thought he was just another hood in his hood up to no goodnick.Trayvon lived at least his Fathers girlfreinds house was the last on the left at the end of the T an to beleive GZ ...Trayvon easily had time to go round the front of his house .Out off GZ sight an said to his soon to be brov hey som e crazy dude been stalking me..George wouldve come up the T thirty or so seconds behind him an have no clue were his SUSPECT was at....So for Georges story to be true either TM had 3 options A ,,Theres me front door go home watch the game eat some candy chill......B...Run like the wind run so fast I can go back to where this guy is going to double back to because Ive turned into a mind reader an a lean mean fighting machine with your mid reading skills double back an ambush this scary dude youve been running from..Make sense so far?...C...Hide out in some non exsistant bushes an stealthly follow this dude back a few hundred ft ninja style so he doesnt like em turn round an notice me.An then attack him 70sGangsta Make my Day Latino Style you got a problem homie.No I gott no problem homie Im packing reveil gun .Where is your licance? Badge? Georgie bpy BADGIES ?we don need no steemkin patchies.Its on hommie .I M O Any normal person is going to take option A Return home out the rain away from weird stalkin dude soon as possable..The fact is Trayvon never got the chance to return home was because GZ chased him down an eventually shot him.The intital strugle may start near the ,,T,,section of the path way maybe George brandished the gun saying YOU GOT A PROPLEM NOW . Trayvon rightly freaked an lunged for the gun hardly beleiveing he was sudenlly in a life or death strugggle .All the while he was screaming for help as wel an probably felt some hope when neighbour sintevened an said they were calling 911..T M may have even backed of on there rolling aroung wrestling for the gau assumeing knowing the polioce were on thiere way.No matter who this dude was a rouge cop mugger what ever he would either back of or run away..But George wasnt acting like a reasonable human that night.Sound n look of things hasnt acted like a reasonable person ever...If it takes murdering someone to get your own kith an kin to pay any attention to you is hardly bodes well as endearing lovable type personality topped with a heart off gold an not a selfish streak of self interest in there bone.........

@EP - following brought chills done my spine. Because Trayvon (in my mind) was still a child. At 17 his mind is not even fully developed. And I know kids at that age and when they are encountered by what they interpret as 'threatening' situations they become frightened little kids.

In order for me to believe that T did some pre emptive strike against GZ, I would have to know more about his familial environment - how he saw adults/parents handle conflict. Because at 17 you are still developing your values/judgments and at an instinctual level I believe he would revert to what he knows from how authoritative men handle conflict. But what do I know ... lol

Trayvon rightly freaked an lunged for the gun hardly beleiveing he was sudenlly in a life or death strugggle .All the while he was screaming for help as wel an probably felt some hope when neighbour sintevened an said they were calling 911..

Im not sure if this is right place to post this vt,,...Seriouly thinking of fowarding it to the neo con last refugee of scoudrels on the net .com Anyway its for an in remembrance of TRAYVON,,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY3bQjzvzHM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY3bQjzvzHM

Ecossie - I think you have a pretty good handle on how it went down. As for the keys, the small flashlight was attached to his key chain, and when found near the "T", it was lit. The second one, the bigger of the two, GZ said wouldn't work - although if I understand correctly Serino turned it on and it worked, and I believe it was found down near Trayvon's body....but won't swear to that fact.

I also believe you are correct that the words that GZ states Trayvon said were most likely the words that GZ reallly said.

Labradorable - I agree with you - Trayvon was only 2 weeks into being 17 years old. He was still a child and if struck with fear, would have thought like a child. Those that knew him describe him as a polite young man. I find it hard to believe that he would turn into Rambo when struck with fear, or that he would entice anyone into an altercation. I would believe that he might attempt to stand his ground against a quack skin head appearing dude who was attempting to detain him in some manner. And I know I have stated this a million times, and I will state it a million times more, GZ had his gun at the ready when he came upon Trayvon - that is when Trayvon began fighting for his life.

OT - but not only did I sell Glazed Ham, but I sold Snoopy today...Spicy Sugar and no name are left to go.

ecossie possie wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY3bQjzvzHM

Ecossie - that just breaks my heart. I bring myself out of it by watching this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBAvDoPLpNw&feature=plcp

George Zimmerman's judge now has 30 days to rule on the Motion to Disqualify. If Judge Kenneth Lester is disqualified, Mark O'Mara would then have 20 days to ask a court to reconsider or vacate any of the judge's prior rulings, according to the Rules of Judicial Administration.

http://criminallawnewsnow.com/

The following is lifted from the comments section at the Leatherman blog. Didn't someone here say they thought Zimmerman didn't act alone (and I thought you were nutty for saying that)! Does this explain the ATM video in evidence? (BBM in comment)

martingale says:
July 14, 2012 at 10:50 am
This is copied from another blog post in regards to Osterman:

“https://i.imgur.com/AMCW9.png
is my screen capture of the last customer at the M&I bank Rinehart Rd ATM, and the [person who took GZ out of jail after the second bond. As Leelee says is
MARK OSTERMAN. Check against his Facebook for yourselves, I couldn’t screenshot that.
GUYS: best buddy, shooting teacher, disgraced former deputy, air marshall friend was there BEFORE THE SHOOTING.
He drove out from the ATM at 6.38 pm. A mere 60 – 80 seconds from GZ’s main gate. While it is possible he was just passing through, no need for him to go to this bank, as there is another M&I much closer to where he lives, at Lake Mary.
So, 6.40 or a bit later if he made a detour say to Walmart.
Problem with 6.40 is, that is exactly the time Trayvon would be walking along Orlando Avenue on his way to the corner shortcut.
Didn’t we say all along there was a tip-off?
Well somewhere GZ says his wife is with his friend.”

Zimmerman’s phone records will be interesting. It looks like this guy will be used to establish that Z was looking to detain him, and of course, it will confirm that Z lies about the reason he was out of the house with his weapon in the first place. I thought the case for murder 2 was weak when the charges were announced(manslaughter seemed appropriate) but the more evidence we see the strong the prosecution’s case gets.

CherokeeNative wrote:-------post snipped------Ecossie - I think you have a pretty good handle on how it went down. As for the keys, the small flashlight was attached to his key chain, and when found near the "T", it was lit. The second one, the bigger of the two, GZ said wouldn't work - although if I understand correctly Serino turned it on and it worked, and I believe it was found down near Trayvon's body....but won't swear to that fact.

--also, having to do w/ george's keys/ small flashlight...

--W18 (the retired schoolteacher) said in her stmt to the SAO that after the "pop-pop-popping" sound, the larger person got up--------and walked 'toward her window' (that she was peering out from..)---so, in the direction of her townhouse, see map:

--W #18 lives here:



--she goes on to say that he (the larger man) got up, walked 'toward her window' and took a weird stance (she demonstrated this by partially bending over and placing her bladed hand on top of her forehead ("as if peering in the distance.")

--she did a drawing of where george walked to ( her arrow ): (blue dot is her house/red dot is the location of george's keys/small flashlight):



--after shooting trayvon, what was up w/ george wandering back to the "T" area? was he looking for his keys/small flashlight? his larger flashlight?

--which, by the way Cher----the larger (6" tactical) flashlight was found here :
--#5 (george's large flashlight) #6 (spent bullet casing) #7 (trayvon's phone).



--W18 then says that right away someone appeared w/ a flashlight (not LE) ran down the sidewalk towards george----she heard him say "i shot him"----LE then arrived also w/ a flashlight, she saw george being handcuffed....

--i find it very strange ( ok, COLD and CALLOUS ) that, after just having SHOT someone, he wasn't screaming at someone! anyone! to call a freaking ambulance! and instead was wandering away from the body and back to the "T" area....

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

--page 16.

--W18 interview summary w/ SAO's gilbreath/steen april 4/2012.

angela_nw wrote:The following is lifted from the comments section at the Leatherman blog. Didn't someone here say they thought Zimmerman didn't act alone (and I thought you were nutty for saying that)! Does this explain the ATM video in evidence? (BBM in comment)

martingale says:
July 14, 2012 at 10:50 am
This is copied from another blog post in regards to Osterman:

[color=darkblue]“https://i.imgur.com/AMCW9.png
is my screen capture of the last customer at the M&I bank Rinehart Rd ATM, and the took GZ out of jail after the second bond. As Leelee says is
MARK OSTERMAN. Check against his Facebook for yourselves, I couldn’t screenshot that.
GUYS: best buddy, shooting teacher, disgraced former deputy, air marshall friend was there BEFORE THE SHOOTING.
He drove out from the ATM at 6.38 pm. A mere 60 – 80 seconds from GZ’s main gate. While it is possible he was just passing through, no need for him to go to this bank, as there is another M&I much closer to where he lives, at Lake Mary.
So, 6.40 or a bit later if he made a detour say to Walmart.
Problem with 6.40 is, that is exactly the time Trayvon would be walking along Orlando Avenue on his way to the corner shortcut.
Didn’t we say all along there was a tip-off?
Well somewhere GZ says his wife is with his friend.”
Zimmerman’s phone records will be interesting. It looks like this guy will be used to establish that Z was looking to detain him, and of course, it will confirm that Z lies about the reason he was out of the house with his weapon in the first place. I thought the case for murder 2 was weak when the charges were announced(manslaughter seemed appropriate) but the more evidence we see the strong the prosecution’s case gets.

Underline by me.


Interesting. Could it be that Shellie is the one that tipped off GZ to go look for Trayvon.... Listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-0p9ThdVRY&feature=plcp

ellejay wrote:

CherokeeNative wrote:-------post snipped------Ecossie - I think you have a pretty good handle on how it went down. As for the keys, the small flashlight was attached to his key chain, and when found near the "T", it was lit. The second one, the bigger of the two, GZ said wouldn't work - although if I understand correctly Serino turned it on and it worked, and I believe it was found down near Trayvon's body....but won't swear to that fact.

--also, having to do w/ george's keys/ small flashlight...

--W18 (the retired schoolteacher) said in her stmt to the SAO that after the "pop-pop-popping" sound, the larger person got up--------and walked 'toward her window' (that she was peering out from..)---so, in the direction of her townhouse, see map:

--W #18 lives here:



--she goes on to say that he (the larger man) got up, walked 'toward her window' and took a weird stance (she demonstrated this by partially bending over and placing her bladed hand on top of her forehead ("as if peering in the distance.")

--she did a drawing of where george walked to ( her arrow ): (blue dot is her house/red dot is the location of george's keys/small flashlight):



--after shooting trayvon, what was up w/ george wandering back to the "T" area? was he looking for his keys/small flashlight? his larger flashlight?

--which, by the way Cher----the larger (6" tactical) flashlight was found here :
--#5 (george's large flashlight) #6 (spent bullet casing) #7 (trayvon's phone).



--W18 then says that right away someone appeared w/ a flashlight (not LE) ran down the sidewalk towards george----she heard him say "i shot him"----LE then arrived also w/ a flashlight, she saw george being handcuffed....

--i find it very strange ( ok, COLD and CALLOUS ) that, after just having SHOT someone, he wasn't screaming at someone! anyone! to call a freaking ambulance! and instead was wandering away from the body and back to the "T" area....

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

--page 16.

--W18 interview summary w/ SAO's gilbreath/steen april 4/2012.

Ellejay, do you suppose he purposely went up near the T and dropped his keys there on purpose? Okay, and so the larger flashlight is called the "tactical" flashlight, and not the little one? Don't know why I though the smaller was called the "tactical"...Doh.... And yes, he is cold and calloused - no signs of emotions whatsoever. It is as though he had waited for this moment to come and he finally got his "kill." I suspect GZ never doubted for one moment that he had made a "kill shot."

Ellejay .........Think yhis pic got wee bit more inso...think??? Mods pls duplicate if doubling up / repeating/ visual stutter...tia.

ooops forgot link ,, https://2img.net/h/i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/misszandra/trayvon/witnessmap.jpg

Ecossie, you are so correct. George had no idea where Trayvon was staying at the time of his account to LE (LE didn't even know), and this just may blow Zimmermans account of what happened. His own words put him and Trayvon in the path of where Trayvon was staying. Zimmerman certainly cannot retract that. This just goes to show how twisted and what a liar Zimmerman is. Between all his lies and where the altercation took place is going to hang Zimmerman's self defense claim.

Hence the "murder two" charge.

ellejay wrote:

CherokeeNative wrote:-------post snipped------Ecossie - I think you have a pretty good handle on how it went down. As for the keys, the small flashlight was attached to his key chain, and when found near the "T", it was lit. The second one, the bigger of the two, GZ said wouldn't work - although if I understand correctly Serino turned it on and it worked, and I believe it was found down near Trayvon's body....but won't swear to that fact.

--also, having to do w/ george's keys/ small flashlight...

--W18 (the retired schoolteacher) said in her stmt to the SAO that after the "pop-pop-popping" sound, the larger person got up--------and walked 'toward her window' (that she was peering out from..)---so, in the direction of her townhouse, see map:

--W #18 lives here:



--she goes on to say that he (the larger man) got up, walked 'toward her window' and took a weird stance (she demonstrated this by partially bending over and placing her bladed hand on top of her forehead ("as if peering in the distance.")

--she did a drawing of where george walked to ( her arrow ): (blue dot is her house/red dot is the location of george's keys/small flashlight):



--after shooting trayvon, what was up w/ george wandering back to the "T" area? was he looking for his keys/small flashlight? his larger flashlight?

--which, by the way Cher----the larger (6" tactical) flashlight was found here :
--#5 (george's large flashlight) #6 (spent bullet casing) #7 (trayvon's phone).



--W18 then says that right away someone appeared w/ a flashlight (not LE) ran down the sidewalk towards george----she heard him say "i shot him"----LE then arrived also w/ a flashlight, she saw george being handcuffed....

--i find it very strange ( ok, COLD and CALLOUS ) that, after just having SHOT someone, he wasn't screaming at someone! anyone! to call a freaking ambulance! and instead was wandering away from the body and back to the "T" area....
http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

--page 16.

--W18 interview summary w/ SAO's gilbreath/steen april 4/2012.

I know if I just shot someone I would be screaming from here to holy hell. Yet Zimmerman wants everyone to believe that it was him screaming up to the point of the shot being fired..His story is going to be ripped to threads and it wont matter if it's Judge Lester hearing the case or any other judge hearing it. Nothing is going to save Zimmerman.

(I wonder how mnay more donations came in)?

ecossie possie wrote:Ellejay .........Think yhis pic got wee bit more inso...think??? Mods pls duplicate if doubling up / repeating/ visual stutter...tia.

--hmmm..i'm not sure what you're saying 'ecossie'----???

Ellejay....translation.....I think this picture has a little more info...right EC?

https://2img.net/h/i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/misszandra/trayvon/witnessmap.jpg

Gizmo711 wrote:

(I wonder how mnay more donations came in)?

--yeah, after putting out his public plea "for those who.........identified any which way at all possible, to the point of shooting trayvon themselves...." and pretty much demanding their money, ( or else how on earth will your george get a proper defense????? pay his bills????? live, now that YOU and i have gained his freedom?????)...

--we haven't heard how the "donate" button has been doing. for a few days after george was sprung the gzlegalcase Mod would pop by the discussion and give them an update---thanking them for their $$$$$$upport!

--haven't seen that lately.

--"they" appear to be happy that omara&co have taken action! in filing this motion for judgeL to go.....every now and then you'll see a post where someone brings up the 'donate to george again' ! ----no clue if they are or (have been tapped out already..)

--once the state's motion to disagree w/ the defense in disqualifying judgeL, and judgeL's response comes out next week-------i'm sure omara will be back on the media circuit (explaining it away one way or another) ---and i have no doubt that he'll get in a line or 2 re: the $$$$$$$$'s....$$$upporters...friend$$$ofgeorge.

If only it were that easy:

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/

ecossie possie wrote:ooops forgot link ,, https://2img.net/h/i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/misszandra/trayvon/witnessmap.jpg

I've seen this photo before and there was some written information that it was to scale (words to that effect).

Toward the bottom of the picture, there is a horizontal yellow arrow going from building to building, that indicates 50 ft.

At the top of the picture, there is a vertical yellow arrow from the "T' downward, that indicates 50'.

Have any of our trusty posters on RC made this calculation themselves? It's my understanding that it can be done using Google, but I readily admit that I don't know how to do it myself.

Actual measurement of the two yellow lines are not the same length.

~~~~~~

Update: Nevermind. I took a look at the maps posted on Flicker.

labradorable - TY - your maps are great!

In the recent doc dump, one of the witness statements had a drawing of what was in the area - the witness drew the building with a jut out for two of the units and a big row of hedge in between.

Indicated to me there there was a hedge in the area.

A couple of the witness statements in the first doc dump stated that there were two voices: one was a deep voice.

Wonder if TMs voice was deep.

Zim doesn't have a deep-timbered voice.

Wasn't one of the witnesses a man who came out right away and said he was going to call 911 and Zim said police were already on the way? That witness - wonder if he noticed the position of TMs hands?

Labadorable wrote:Sharing some excellent interactive analysis of the crime scene map from an individual JD at the following link: http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/07/13/zimmerman-case-who-uttered-the-terrified-scream-for-help-punctuated-by-a-gunshot/

Following is cut & paste from JD's posting.

the investigator’s evidence map has been released, and myself and others have produced overlays with google maps, google earth, etc to better illustrate what is shown and contrast the evidence with George’s many conflicting statements.

Here is photo analysis of the total crime scene map, which by the way vindicates my own estimates almost completely, IMO. (I missed the location of the first aid kit by less than ten feet)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeandodge/

here is another, NOT mine but that confirms what we both independently arrived at

https://2img.net/h/oi48.tinypic.com/esndqf.jpg

If you are curious about all the measurements, go to google maps and use the ruler to to estimate distances.

--oh wow-----these maps are awesome "labradorable".

--i especially love the comparison to yankee stadium-----showing the distance that george "stumbled"--the ONE time he mentions this stumble--during the reenactment/walkthrough , when he surely realizes that he HAS to get himself/trayvon down from the "T" ---(fails miserably b/c a stumble or 2 just ain't gonna do it..)--- ( in his other interviews he got punched in the nose and fell smack right there at the "T"..)

YANKEE STADIUM. Distance GZ claims he stumbled, for comparison.

"Imagine a batter hit by an inside pitch stumbling to the pitcher's mound. This is the distance GZ claims he stumbled the ONE time he recalls this movement......45.25 Feet.

Here are his other statements about how the altercation went from standing to prone.

first interview 26 FEB part one with Singleton

"I fell to the ground when he punched me the first time"
"as soon as he punched me i fell backwards into the grass."
"and he punched me in the nose. At that point, I fell down…"

Puzzler wrote:Wasn't one of the witnesses a man who came out right away and said he was going to call 911 and Zim said police were already on the way? That witness - wonder if he noticed the position of TMs hands?

--yes...W6 did say that trayvon was in a kind of "a spawled out position"..one hand up/one down...
http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/people/witnesses/witness-6-files-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-case/
--W6


“FDLE: Again, referring to the hands real quick for the sake of the audio recording, you were indicating a hand position kind of as if you were swimming, with a hand forward and a hand back.

W6: Correct, correct.

FDLE: That’s a face-down position.

W6: Correct.”

ellejay wrote:

Puzzler wrote:Wasn't one of the witnesses a man who came out right away and said he was going to call 911 and Zim said police were already on the way? That witness - wonder if he noticed the position of TMs hands?

--yes...W6 did say that trayvon was in a kind of "a spawled out position"..one hand up/one down...
http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/people/witnesses/witness-6-files-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-case/
--W6


“FDLE: Again, referring to the hands real quick for the sake of the audio recording, you were indicating a hand position kind of as if you were swimming, with a hand forward and a hand back.

W6: Correct, correct.

FDLE: That’s a face-down position.

W6: Correct.”

ellejay - TY

Okay...it was a policeman who said that TMs hands were underneath him...right?

Why does every little detail have to have multiple answers? Sigh...