Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

by Gizmo711 Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:13 pm

serenaz1 wrote:
Gizmo711 wrote:

It's been about 10 years since "air marshals" were brought into play. Right after 911 and it wasn't that hard at the beginning to become one. Just like TSA, most of those employess were the same employees that were screeners and made minimum wage to starting at 42,000 as a TSA worker. It's not a big deal to know one of these "air Marshals" but I bet to Zimmerman it made him feel like a big shot.

Here's the Wiki on the history of the Air Marshals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal_Service

They are supposed to be anonymous, physically fit & agile to move around in tight spaces. Saying on FB that his job involves lots of travel & shooting while working for Homeland Security kinda blows his cover, I'd say.

Even when they check in at the airport it is in secret. When they are boarding the plane they have to show regular ID's and not their badge. They always sit in first class, never in the rear of the plane. I can tell you this much, they all think who they are. Only the crew are aware that they are on board. He should not even be having his face connected to being an "air marshal" publicized. He sounds like an idiot to me.

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:15 pm

Good going, Shellie! Very Happy

p 137
2ns paragraph from bottom

--- HR person could see the bandages were not properly applied to GZ head/nose

Edited: This is very detailed. apparently, GZ told (bragged?) a lot to this person. Stated he followed Trayvon. GZ even said Trayvon KICKED the crap out of GZ.

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

by CherokeeNative Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:17 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:I see your point CN. Would you rather Fla give a CWP permit to an ADHD person NOT on meds? I think its a damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda scenario.
I am going to go look at the CWP requirements. Anyone got that handy?

Here you go CB: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html

Actually, I haven't put real thought into who should be allowed permits, and who shouldn't. But I think that if you have any form of illness whether mental or not that causes you to have drastic mood swings, etc., or if you take medication that is proven to have side effects causing drastic mood swings, etc., you should not be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. Now, this may offend some - and I am not meaning to do that. It's just that I have no interest personally in carrying a weapon and therefore question why anyone would want to do so anyway - so to each his own - but if you have issues that for whatever reason cause you to become unstable from time to time, I don't want to be walking around next to you in Walmart, etc. JMHO

by Chickenbutt Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:22 pm

Thank you CN....pretty leinent in my opinion.

by KZ Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:22 pm

Cherokee, you would be astonished at what kind of, and how MANY legally prescribed medications are being taken on a daily basis by a huge percentage of your fellow citizens who are DRIVING CARS, AND possessing CWPs. Prescriptions for lots of mood and personality altering meds are literally given out like water in many places. Any person in this country can get a script for sleep aids or anxiety meds if they doctor shop a couple of providers.

There is simply no way to police legally prescribed meds and CWP-- that is why the legislatures aren't trying.

GZ's meds are fairly mundane, imo. A HUGE percentage of the population are taking them. ADHD meds (and others) are so prevalent that there is a nationwide shortage, and the FDA and govt are trying to work out a supply/ demand set of regs for tyhe manufacturers.

I really think that EITHER side trying to play up the ADHD meds angle will backfire. There will absolutely be members of the jury who are either on these meds themselves, or have family members that are, and will be highly offended at any suggestion that they are too impulsive to function normally in society.

GZs meds, imo, can neither be an excuse, nor a mitigating factor in his behavior. I strongly believe that. He has no evidence of these disorders severely impacting his life or functioning, employment or performance-- neither side will be able to successfully argue that as a motive or a mitigating factor. They would be extremely foolish to even try, imo.

by KZ Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:25 pm

I posted the FL CWP application a few days ago. The only requirements that would prohibit someone with a mental disorder are a COURT finding of incompetence. Meds are not even mentioned. I will look for my previous post.

by CherokeeNative Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:26 pm

I understand KZ, that's why I said I would have to think long and hard about bringing up the issue if I were the prosecutor. Very Happy

by Chickenbutt Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:28 pm

Thank you KZ...no need...CN posted it and I read it. Nothing like it was here in NY. It was quite the chore to get a CWP here.

by KZ Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:30 pm

From thread 5:

GZ does not have any disqualifying conditions (mental or psychological) that would have rendered him ineligible in FL for a concealed carry permit. They do not ask about ANY medications taken on the application. If someone has been declared incompetent by a court, or involuntarily committed for any mental condition, alcohol, or drug use, then they are ineligible. Remember that Florida has the MOST liberal concealed carry regulations in the country. Almost anyone is eligible, if they have done the firearms course, completed the application, and don't have "much" of a criminal history. (Isn't that a comforting thought?)

Of interest, dishonorably discharged veterans are NOT eligible-- that surprised me, because military members are discharged for all kinds of offenses that have nothing to do with violence. (Financial mismanagement, fraternization, chronic tardiness and lax job performance, talking back or mouthing off, etc.-- many of these military offenses have no civilian offense equivalent.)

You are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license if any of the following conditions applies to you: (1) you have been adjudicated incapacitated under section 744.331, FS, or similar laws of any other state; (2) you have been committed to a mental institution in accordance with the provisions of Chapter 394, FS, or similar laws of any other state; (3) you have been adjudicated mentally defective or incompetent in any court. Your eligibility for licensure would be restored only if you had received relief from federal firearms disabilities through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF).

You are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license if you answer YES to any one of these questions pertaining to committal for controlled substance abuse, committal for alcohol abuse, or DUI conviction DURING THE THREE YEARS PRECEDING THE DATE ON WHICH YOU SUBMITTED YOUR APPLICATION.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/forms/Temp/T046874423.pdf#page=1

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:45 pm

Freckles wrote:Good going, Shellie!

p 137
2ns paragraph from bottom

--- HR person could see the bandages were not properly applied to GZ head/nose

Edited: This is very detailed. apparently, GZ told (bragged?) a lot to this person. Stated he followed Trayvon. GZ even said Trayvon KICKED the crap out of GZ.

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

Page 139
--- gives clue to this person's identity:

" ___ only had interaction with GZ about 7 or 8 years years ago when Z dated her _____. Z seemed very young at the time. ___ never knew Z to be violent or aggressive. She did not know about the restraining order that her daughter had gotten against Z or the altercations they had until after _____ daughter and Z broke up. "

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:52 pm

p 140
--- @ 2003, GZ and engaged gf move into house owned by GZ' father.

(I have to wonder about the finances of the bond hearing where the father said he was financially tight. I have never heard of a retired judge/magistrate being broke or retiring on nothing. At the same time, I believe the question improper as GZ was an emancipated adult and his family should not have had to have their finances scrutinized. JMO)

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

by Chickenbutt Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:54 pm

Freckles, I agree with that. If my child was in jail and someone came asking me about what I had to put up as bail, I would tell them to hit the road as I have always told my kids if they go to jail and only have one call they better call someone who wil get them out....not me.

by Gizmo711 Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:13 pm

Freckles wrote:On March 30, 2012, gun shop notified SPD GZ came into store @ 2 wks earlier looking to buy more guns as he stated his life was in danger.

P 91

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

I would think that his permit would have been put on hold until this was over with. Obviously it's not. But then again, he would be able to buy a gun at any gun show in Florida with just his drivers license.

But what's with the need for all those guns? Does he really think he will need more than one gun? Unless he want's to really shoot like the old western days with a gun in each hand.

This guy is a wacko. George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6 - Page 9 80578

George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6 - Page 9 80578

by Porky Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:31 pm

ellejay wrote:
Puzzler wrote:

ellejay - TY

Clear as mud....

His Air Marshall friendly probably taught him that if he ever does shoot someone, he better make sure that the crime scene and position of the body supports a claim of self defense. George foo foo'd though by moving the body.

--yep it is.

--george "somehow" gets on top of trayvon----splays his arms out (like a "real" cop would---W6 sees trayvon in this position from inside his townhome..)

--however, the REAL cops arrive minutes later--------trayvons arms/hands are now underneath the body-----trayvon, b/c he was DEAD did not do this-----george did----why?

by WeeBonnie Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:56 pm

Interesting analysis of the gunshot forensics. It appears someone was grabbing on Trayvon's hoodie when he was shot?

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/

by Labadorable Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:05 pm

@Puzzler you are welcome - re the flickr maps. But the thanks go to JD on frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/

ttfn Razz

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:09 pm

WeeBonnie wrote:Interesting analysis of the gunshot forensics. It appears someone was grabbing on Trayvon's hoodie when he was shot?

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/

Very interesting observations indeed.

From the comment section:

"Response to Was Trayvon Martin Attempting to get Away when George Zimmerman killed Him?

PYorck says:
July 15, 2012 at 1:50 pm
I agree with you. There is another little detail that might be related to this. During the CVSA interview he mentions that he had to be careful not to shoot his other hand. The remark seemed a little odd in context. Of course not shooting your own hand is common sense, but why was that such an great concern? Assuming he wanted to hold Trayvon who was on top him with his left hand, the most effective place to grab him was somewhere on the upper half of the torso and towards TM’s left."

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/was-trayvon-martin-attempting-to-get-away-when-george-zimmerman-killed-him/

by Porky Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:09 pm

Freckles wrote:p 140
--- @ 2003, GZ and engaged gf move into house owned by GZ' father.

(I have to wonder about the finances of the bond hearing where the father said he was financially tight. I have never heard of a retired judge/magistrate being broke or retiring on nothing. At the same time, I believe the question improper as GZ was an emancipated adult and his family should not have had to have their finances scrutinized. JMO)

http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

I have a relative who played in the NFL for 8 years making millions and is now nearly broke at 34 if not already broke. People can be talented otherwise and dumb with money.

by Labadorable Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:14 pm

Prof. Leatherman just did an excellent post on notes released from Amy L. Siewert, Crime Laboratory Analyst employed by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement Crime Laboratory. The Professor ties up her analysis of these notes with the trajectory of the gunshot.

Below C & V (cut & paste) from Leatherman's: Was Trayvon Martin Attempting to get Away when George Zimmerman killed Him?

What does this mean?

I believe it means the sweatshirts were being pulled down or being held by GZ as TM was pulling back or attempting to stand up (and probably screaming for help as he did so) when GZ pressed the muzzle of his gun against the hooded sweatshirt and pulled the trigger. The two sweatshirts were in contact with each other (i.e., gripped together) and approximately 2-4 inches from his chest.

The trajectory of the shot would have been straight through neither varying up or down nor left or right, if TM were leaning forward while attempting to get away, but restrained from escaping by GZ’s grip on his sweatshirts.

here's the post: http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/was-trayvon-martin-attempting-to-get-away-when-george-zimmerman-killed-him/

by Alessandra_Deux Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:27 pm

Trayvon Martin murder case mystery: George Zimmerman’s cop connection

Patrik Jonsson | The Christian Science Monitor | Jul 15, 2012

It’s been perhaps the biggest mystery of the Trayvon Martin murder case saga: George Zimmerman’s cop connections.

An aspiring police officer, Mr. Zimmerman has been accused by prosecutors of play-acting as a police officer the night he pursued, shot and killed Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla. after pegging him as a suspicious young black man roving the neighborhood. The case turned national when police initially chose to believe the neighborhood watchman’s self-defense claims, leaving a special state prosecutor to instead level murder charges 44 days later.

But questions about whether Zimmerman had actual connections with police or justice system higher-ups that may have influenced the early decision to not charge him were piqued this week with the release of new evidence in the closely-watched case, including an observation by one detective that Zimmerman’s take on the shooting seemed “scripted.”

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/trayvon-martin-murder-case-mystery-george-zimmerman-s-cop-connection

by MollyK Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:42 pm

WeeBonnie wrote:Interesting analysis of the gunshot forensics. It appears someone was grabbing on Trayvon's hoodie when he was shot?

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/

I saw that, too, WeeBonnie. It's hard to see any other explanation for the two sweatshirts being several inches away from Trayvon's chest.

I'm glad to be back here after a few days away. I was logged out and couldn't remember my password. I finally found it today, written down.

by Hinky Refugee Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:50 pm

KZ wrote:Cherokee, you would be astonished at what kind of, and how MANY legally prescribed medications are being taken on a daily basis by a huge percentage of your fellow citizens who are DRIVING CARS, AND possessing CWPs. Prescriptions for lots of mood and personality altering meds are literally given out like water in many places. Any person in this country can get a script for sleep aids or anxiety meds if they doctor shop a couple of providers.

There is simply no way to police legally prescribed meds and CWP-- that is why the legislatures aren't trying.

GZ's meds are fairly mundane, imo. A HUGE percentage of the population are taking them. ADHD meds (and others) are so prevalent that there is a nationwide shortage, and the FDA and govt are trying to work out a supply/ demand set of regs for tyhe manufacturers.

I really think that EITHER side trying to play up the ADHD meds angle will backfire. There will absolutely be members of the jury who are either on these meds themselves, or have family members that are, and will be highly offended at any suggestion that they are too impulsive to function normally in society.

GZs meds, imo, can neither be an excuse, nor a mitigating factor in his behavior. I strongly believe that. He has no evidence of these disorders severely impacting his life or functioning, employment or performance-- neither side will be able to successfully argue that as a motive or a mitigating factor. They would be extremely foolish to even try, imo.

KZ, my biggest concern is the defense using the ADHD diagnosis plus the side effects to the medications to explain why Gz can't remember things as they happened and tell's events in different ways. And Gz was on more than one benzodiazepine IIRC. For instance, an expert explaining to the jury that ADHD manifests in different categories....mild to severe...AND maybe throwing in that benzo's Gz is on are in the class with Xanax and Valium....would maybe hit ONE juror who has no previous knowledge concerning ADHD...but, does know the big benzo's names and can relate to hearing of them.

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:57 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
WeeBonnie wrote:Interesting analysis of the gunshot forensics. It appears someone was grabbing on Trayvon's hoodie when he was shot?

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/

Very interesting observations indeed.

From the comment section:

"Response to Was Trayvon Martin Attempting to get Away when George Zimmerman killed Him?

PYorck says:
July 15, 2012 at 1:50 pm
I agree with you. There is another little detail that might be related to this. During the CVSA interview he mentions that he had to be careful not to shoot his other hand. The remark seemed a little odd in context. Of course not shooting your own hand is common sense, but why was that such an great concern? Assuming he wanted to hold Trayvon who was on top him with his left hand, the most effective place to grab him was somewhere on the upper half of the torso and towards TM’s left."

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/was-trayvon-martin-attempting-to-get-away-when-george-zimmerman-killed-him/

IMO, GZ shot Trayvon straight on and in close contact as reports have indicated.
Because of this, I am leaning toward GZ grabbing Trayvon, perhaps pulling him in close, shooting him level or horizontal with the ground, pushing him away after shooting him so Trayvon "spun" and fell to the ground. In the process, possibly the gun slide slammed GZ in the nose injuring the nose. (I am told the gun is notorious for pulling up and if not held steady, the slide may "pinch" the trigger thumb or "jump" up and back toward the shooter.) This is presuming there was only one aggressor. I still am not convinced a second person was not lurking. I would like to see the cell phone record for the 24 hours prior to the shooting to see if this was a set up by a wannbe.

by Hinky Refugee Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:58 pm

Gizmo711 wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:

Here's the Wiki on the history of the Air Marshals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal_Service

They are supposed to be anonymous, physically fit & agile to move around in tight spaces. Saying on FB that his job involves lots of travel & shooting while working for Homeland Security kinda blows his cover, I'd say.

Even when they check in at the airport it is in secret. When they are boarding the plane they have to show regular ID's and not their badge. They always sit in first class, never in the rear of the plane. I can tell you this much, they all think who they are. Only the crew are aware that they are on board. He should not even be having his face connected to being an "air marshal" publicized. He sounds like an idiot to me.

Well, from the pictures he is definitely not FIT & therefore cannot be very "agile"...

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:22 pm

Hinky Ref-- Maybe, MO is a wannbe AM like GZ... Very Happy

by ellejay Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:32 pm

--yikes...there will be a lot of jail calls to listen to tomorrow...

http://twitter.com/roblesherald
Frances Robles‏@RoblesHerald

149 calls. 10 mins each. 1490 minutes, 24.833 hours

Frances Robles‏@RoblesHerald

not just shellie

by Labadorable Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:34 pm

@ellejay re

--yikes...there will be a lot of jail calls to listen to tomorrow...

Time to create a GZ codespeak dictionary reference excel sheet - just saying ...

by ellejay Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:48 pm

Labadorable wrote:@ellejay re
--yikes...there will be a lot of jail calls to listen to tomorrow...

Time to create a GZ codespeak dictionary reference excel sheet - just saying ...

--well, we have "cutie" = george ( i sure never would have got that one on my own by looking at the guy.)

by WeeBonnie Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:49 pm

So by tommorrow we shld find out marK ostermEN's
code name?
crystal ball

by Labadorable Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:55 pm

To add humor to the mix ... someone has created a funny (JMCO) pix of the Simmermans ....(pop culture mix of Bart Simpson - assumption).

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kPTn8g3YOSI/UAMd2XNrrRI/AAAAAAAAAB0/If-i45LEmeE/s1600/the%2Bsimmermans.jpg

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:03 pm

From earlier posted link:
Was Trayvon Martin Attempting to get Away when George Zimmerman killed Him?
July 15, 2012

" These are the classic signs of a contact shot. That is, the muzzle of the gun was in contact with the outer hooded sweatshirt with the light gray sweatshirt immediately behind, or in contact with it."

Direct contact. Muzzle was pressed up against the hoodie.

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:05 pm

WeeBonnie wrote:So by tommorrow we shld find out marK ostermEN's
code name?

Oh, very good! LOL! I see you have reached the same curious conclusion I have! Cool

by angela_nw Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:06 pm

Freckles wrote:p 123
--After the murder GZ went door-to-door introducing himself to the residents and telling them he was NW.
http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

Has someone corrected this yet? It is misquoted: the resident says that after the incident he found out that Zimmerman had gone around the neighborhood introducing himself etc. NOT that this took place after the incident. Zimmerman was gone by then.

by angela_nw Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:30 pm

WeeBonnie wrote:So by tommorrow we shld find out marK ostermEN's
code name?

oh very good

by alabama52 Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:47 pm

Why is it pro-Zimmerman sites such as The Conservative Treehouse & others are truly convinced that ALL the evidence points to George telling the truth & being totally innocent???

by Labadorable Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:49 pm

@alabama re: why conservatives might be Pro-GZ

-->NRA
-->2nd Ammendment

jmco

by Dis Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:50 pm

ellejay wrote:
Labadorable wrote:@ellejay re

Time to create a GZ codespeak dictionary reference excel sheet - just saying ...

--well, we have "cutie" = george ( i sure never would have got that one on my own by looking at the guy.)

Coming from the best sleuth on the web. They don't give you much to work with on that one ellejay.

by CherokeeNative Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:53 pm

alabama52 wrote:Why is it pro-Zimmerman sites such as The Conservative Treehouse & others are truly convinced that ALL the evidence points to George telling the truth & being totally innocent???

Alabama, I am convinced that some pro-GZs would never waiver in their thinking even if a video were found showing GZ chasing, tackling, and shooting Trayvon straight on with no defense on Trayvon's part - they would still claim that Trayvon deserved it and GZ was in the right to have done it. Go figure. The awful part is all they need is one of "them" to make it on the jury.

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:04 pm

ellejay wrote:--yikes...there will be a lot of jail calls to listen to tomorrow...

http://twitter.com/roblesherald
Frances Robles‏@RoblesHerald

149 calls. 10 mins each. 1490 minutes, 24.833 hours

Frances Robles‏@RoblesHerald

not just shellie

Maybe we could split this up, label the info inside (summarize) and post back?
Heck of a lot of hours for anyone to attempt to tackle.

Is this something we might want to consider?

by alabama52 Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:06 pm

CherokeeNative wrote:
alabama52 wrote:Why is it pro-Zimmerman sites such as The Conservative Treehouse & others are truly convinced that ALL the evidence points to George telling the truth & being totally innocent???

Alabama, I am convinced that some pro-GZs would never waiver in their thinking even if a video were found showing GZ chasing, tackling, and shooting Trayvon straight on with no defense on Trayvon's part - they would still claim that Trayvon deserved it and GZ was in the right to have done it. Go figure. The awful part is all they need is one of "them" to make it on the jury.

Oh, I agree CN, it's just that it is driving me nuts! LOL, my posts at the treehouse lately have gone into moderation & then deleted! I wasn't being ugly either. In fact, I was quite respectful.

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:14 pm

angela_nw wrote:
Freckles wrote:p 123
--After the murder GZ went door-to-door introducing himself to the residents and telling them he was NW.
http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

Has someone corrected this yet? It is misquoted: the resident says that after the incident he found out that Zimmerman had gone around the neighborhood introducing himself etc. NOT that this took place after the incident. Zimmerman was gone by then.

I apologize if I misstated it and thank you for catching an error.
I am trying to open the file now but my computer is having a sissy fit!

by CherokeeNative Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:26 pm

alabama52 wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:

Alabama, I am convinced that some pro-GZs would never waiver in their thinking even if a video were found showing GZ chasing, tackling, and shooting Trayvon straight on with no defense on Trayvon's part - they would still claim that Trayvon deserved it and GZ was in the right to have done it. Go figure. The awful part is all they need is one of "them" to make it on the jury.

Oh, I agree CN, it's just that it is driving me nuts! LOL, my posts at the treehouse lately have gone into moderation & then deleted! I wasn't being ugly either. In fact, I was quite respectful.

Same here, they sent it to moderation and then deleted it.... and I was very respectful also, just laid out what was wrong with their set of facts of how it occurred....they don't want to hear that. LOL

oops

by Gizmo711 Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:36 pm

Freckles wrote:From earlier posted link:
Was Trayvon Martin Attempting to get Away when George Zimmerman killed Him?
July 15, 2012

" These are the classic signs of a contact shot. That is, the muzzle of the gun was in contact with the outer hooded sweatshirt with the light gray sweatshirt immediately behind, or in contact with it."

Direct contact. Muzzle was pressed up against the hoodie.

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/

This does make it appear that Zimmerman was holding onto Trayvons hoodie with one hand as not to let him get away and he shot him with the other hand point blank to the chest. Now, can you picture someone in this sort of struggle to be screaming while doing all this? There is no way Zimmerman was the one screaming, it was Trayvon screaming.

Zimmermans hand was holding onto to the front of Trayvons hoodie while he pointed the gun directly at Trayvons chest and shot. This also contradicts his claim of how he grabbed for his gun. Trayvon had to have seen the gun coming at him which is when he started screaming for help. All Zimmermans accounts are made up to try and fit a self defense theory, but it's not going to work. As long as one of those donors don't get on that jury he will be convicted.

And how could anyone even think of going to buy some more guns after such an incident. A gun would have been the farthest thing from my mind after shooting someone dead. That just goes to show taht he wasn't finished trying to be a make believe cop. He was preparing himself to kill again.

by WeeBonnie Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:44 pm

And Trayvon trying to pull away fits in with his body with arms and legs splayed out on his back.
Something GZ didn't want anyone to see.

Freckles wrote:From earlier posted link:
Was Trayvon Martin Attempting to get Away when George Zimmerman killed Him?
July 15, 2012

" These are the classic signs of a contact shot. That is, the muzzle of the gun was in contact with the outer hooded sweatshirt with the light gray sweatshirt immediately behind, or in contact with it."

Direct contact. Muzzle was pressed up against the hoodie.

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/

by Gizmo711 Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:51 pm

MollyK wrote:
WeeBonnie wrote:Interesting analysis of the gunshot forensics. It appears someone was grabbing on Trayvon's hoodie when he was shot?

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/

I saw that, too, WeeBonnie. It's hard to see any other explanation for the two sweatshirts being several inches away from Trayvon's chest.

I'm glad to be back here after a few days away. I was logged out and couldn't remember my password. I finally found it today, written down.

And if it did happen that way, then Zimmerman knew good and well he was killing the young man in front of him, there is no way anyone could survive a shot directly to the heart like that. This is why he never tried to resusitate Trayvon or call for an ambulance to try and save the young man he just shot. He was shooting to kill.

Zimmerman has no business with a gun.

by Gizmo711 Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:55 pm

There is still a lot of information to come out as to what the prosecutions case is going to be. I think its going to be a doozer. I believe that the prosecution will be able to prove their case, it's just going to depend on those jurors.

If one donor does end up on that jury I hope the rest wont be bullied by him/her. I hope they will use their own mind and not end up being another 12 village idiots.

by ellejay Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:24 pm

Gizmo711 wrote:There is still a lot of information to come out as to what the prosecutions case is going to be. I think its going to be a doozer. I believe that the prosecution will be able to prove their case, it's just going to depend on those jurors.

If one donor does end up on that jury I hope the rest wont be bullied by him/her. I hope they will use their own mind and not end up being another 12 village idiots.

--this article (athough he references the kc trial---and THOSE idiot l-a-z-y jurors..) also pertains to this case...
--jury selection is going to be huge in trayvon's case.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201107/the-not-so-obvious-lessons-the-casey-anthony-trial
The Not So Obvious Lessons From The Casey Anthony Trial

--snipped--

Jury Selection

In most criminal cases in America there is no need for jury consultants. However, there is a reason why they exist and it is primarily to assist the defense pick the jury that will best help the defense, not jurisprudence. I will repeat: that will best help the defense, not jurisprudence. What this means is that jury consultants (mostly hired by the defense) are there to "game" the system in one direction.
~~~
If you are in a job where you are used to doing high-level cognitive tasks, where decisions require intellectual rigor, they don't want you either. They don't want people who are willing to work hard to connect the dots. Also if you are an independent thinker, no need to worry - people who prefer consensus and harmony will more likely be selected. Obviously no defense attorney or jury consultant is going to get exactly what they want, but they will try. And of course, it only takes one juror to derail a conviction.

It is said that in the Casey Anthony case we should not blame the jurors. I agree - we shouldn't. That is like buying lemmings as pets and then being surprised when they act lemming like. Those jurors were preferred by the defense team for a reason and they performed as expected.

--more@link--

by Freckles Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:02 pm

angela_nw wrote:
Freckles wrote:p 123
--After the murder GZ went door-to-door introducing himself to the residents and telling them he was NW.
http://axiomamnesia.com/TrayvonMartinFiles/Trayvon_Martin_George_Zimmerman_Documents_given_to_the_Defendant_R.pdf

Has someone corrected this yet? It is misquoted: the resident says that after the incident he found out that Zimmerman had gone around the neighborhood introducing himself etc. NOT that this took place after the incident. Zimmerman was gone by then.

I do not know what has happened or how to fix it. Every time I try that link it is responsive! I have restarted the computer, cleaned out a while bunch, etc. and it will open other links but not let me back into this link!

Any help is appreciated! I don't know what to do.

by Gizmo711 Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:20 pm

ellejay wrote:
Gizmo711 wrote:There is still a lot of information to come out as to what the prosecutions case is going to be. I think its going to be a doozer. I believe that the prosecution will be able to prove their case, it's just going to depend on those jurors.

If one donor does end up on that jury I hope the rest wont be bullied by him/her. I hope they will use their own mind and not end up being another 12 village idiots.

--this article (athough he references the kc trial---and THOSE idiot l-a-z-y jurors..) also pertains to this case...
--jury selection is going to be huge in trayvon's case.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201107/the-not-so-obvious-lessons-the-casey-anthony-trial
The Not So Obvious Lessons From The Casey Anthony Trial

--snipped--

Jury Selection

In most criminal cases in America there is no need for jury consultants. However, there is a reason why they exist and it is primarily to assist the defense pick the jury that will best help the defense, not jurisprudence. I will repeat: that will best help the defense, not jurisprudence. What this means is that jury consultants (mostly hired by the defense) are there to "game" the system in one direction.
~~~
If you are in a job where you are used to doing high-level cognitive tasks, where decisions require intellectual rigor, they don't want you either. They don't want people who are willing to work hard to connect the dots. Also if you are an independent thinker, no need to worry - people who prefer consensus and harmony will more likely be selected. Obviously no defense attorney or jury consultant is going to get exactly what they want, but they will try. And of course, it only takes one juror to derail a conviction.

It is said that in the Casey Anthony case we should not blame the jurors. I agree - we shouldn't. That is like buying lemmings as pets and then being surprised when they act lemming like. Those jurors were preferred by the defense team for a reason and they performed as expected.

--more@link--

Didn't it work in the CA case that each side can pick and choose but only have a few that they can turn down with reason? I think (not sure) that each side was allowed to deny just 3 jurors and when they reached that amount they had to accept the remaining. I just hope and pray that the jury selection will be picked a lot better than before. I still feel that those juror's thought they were going to get rich with bringing back an outragious verdict. Which to me meant that they made up their mind from when they were picked (however I can be wrong as I most of the time am).

Lets just hope that the jurors who are picked listen to the evidence and not go in with a verdict in mind.

by CherokeeNative Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:21 pm

ellejay wrote:
Gizmo711 wrote:There is still a lot of information to come out as to what the prosecutions case is going to be. I think its going to be a doozer. I believe that the prosecution will be able to prove their case, it's just going to depend on those jurors.

If one donor does end up on that jury I hope the rest wont be bullied by him/her. I hope they will use their own mind and not end up being another 12 village idiots.

--this article (athough he references the kc trial---and THOSE idiot l-a-z-y jurors..) also pertains to this case...
--jury selection is going to be huge in trayvon's case.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201107/the-not-so-obvious-lessons-the-casey-anthony-trial
The Not So Obvious Lessons From The Casey Anthony Trial

--snipped--

Jury Selection

In most criminal cases in America there is no need for jury consultants. However, there is a reason why they exist and it is primarily to assist the defense pick the jury that will best help the defense, not jurisprudence. I will repeat: that will best help the defense, not jurisprudence. What this means is that jury consultants (mostly hired by the defense) are there to "game" the system in one direction.
~~~
If you are in a job where you are used to doing high-level cognitive tasks, where decisions require intellectual rigor, they don't want you either. They don't want people who are willing to work hard to connect the dots. Also if you are an independent thinker, no need to worry - people who prefer consensus and harmony will more likely be selected. Obviously no defense attorney or jury consultant is going to get exactly what they want, but they will try. And of course, it only takes one juror to derail a conviction.

It is said that in the Casey Anthony case we should not blame the jurors. I agree - we shouldn't. That is like buying lemmings as pets and then being surprised when they act lemming like. Those jurors were preferred by the defense team for a reason and they performed as expected.

--more@link--

And Ellejay - this is where I believe the legal system has figured out how to beat Lady Justice. Our legal system needs to be revamped. Justice cannot be accomplished when the defense (or the prosecution) is using techniques meant to stack the jury with people who are incapable of an intelligent thought process. I don't know what the answer is, but this is where I go back to thinking professional jurors may be the answer. Just as we worry about a "donor" making it on the jury, or even a pro-trayvon, we are no longer looking at true justice being served but instead whose jury consultant is a better read of potential jurors or whether the prospective juror is capable of bluffing his/her way onto the panel. One day, I imagine we will have a computer that is high-tech enough to act as the jury of 12 where all of the evidence is input and a verdict decided - but until then, our legislature needs to establish new ways and enact new laws and rules to put a stop to jury stacking. It's just wrong. The thing is, only the People can make legislature make the changes - we, the people... so if everyone doesn't start raising holy hell at this type of stuff, the legal system will continue to be a joke that it has become IMHO.

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