Jodi Arias--Trial for the murder of Travis Alexander #19

tesstruhart wrote:I have to admit the Verdict post stopped my heart, called 911, they raced to my house, by the time they got here I was settled down and told them false alarm, they called police and now I am arrested, sitting in the holding cell, nice slightly used stainless steel toilet/sink with some other lovely ladies who have fishnet stockings on and smell like yesterday's fishguts. So, yeah, you got me.

Don't try to make us believe that you got PTSD. That doesn't work.

olivier57 wrote:

tesstruhart wrote:I have to admit the Verdict post stopped my heart, called 911, they raced to my house, by the time they got here I was settled down and told them false alarm, they called police and now I am arrested, sitting in the holding cell, nice slightly used stainless steel toilet/sink with some other lovely ladies who have fishnet stockings on and smell like yesterday's fishguts. So, yeah, you got me.

Don't try to make us believe that you got PTSD. That doesn't work.

Nuts. I was using my phone call to Nurmi, no answer.

Hi, Mari!
Each state has its own felony codes and they can be a pickle to try to figure out. I want the jury to do it right the firt time so we don't have a second time to do it. I just hate padding Nurmi's wallet! Don't think I could take Missy Sorority Sister again, either. I am glad they are being thorough.

olivier57 wrote:

tesstruhart wrote:I have to admit the Verdict post stopped my heart, called 911, they raced to my house, by the time they got here I was settled down and told them false alarm, they called police and now I am arrested, sitting in the holding cell, nice slightly used stainless steel toilet/sink with some other lovely ladies who have fishnet stockings on and smell like yesterday's fishguts. So, yeah, you got me.

Don't try to make us believe that you got PTSD. That doesn't work.

Fog? Did I hear someone say fog?

TWEET

elizabetherwin Fire truck just came to court. Someone fell going up the steps, nothing major shes ok. Not related to #JodiArias trial.

--- Personally, JA pushed her...

Freckles wrote:Hi, Mari!
Each state has its own felony codes and they can be a pickle to try to figure out. I want the jury to do it right the firt time so we don't have a second time to do it. I just hate padding Nurmi's wallet! Don't think I could take Missy Sorority Sister again, either. I am glad they are being thorough.

If this did get re-tried Jodi doesn't get to have Nurmi again. And since she WANTS him, I'm glad to know she won't get him.

Freckles wrote:TWEET

elizabetherwin Fire truck just came to court. Someone fell going up the steps, nothing major shes ok. Not related to #JodiArias trial.

--- Personally, JA pushed her...

Who falls going UP the stairs?????

Mari 68 wrote:

Freckles wrote:TWEET

elizabetherwin Fire truck just came to court. Someone fell going up the steps, nothing major shes ok. Not related to #JodiArias trial.

--- Personally, JA pushed her...

Who falls going UP the stairs?????

That would be me. LOL when I was a kid I did it all the time.

tesstruhart wrote:

olivier57 wrote:

Don't try to make us believe that you got PTSD. That doesn't work.

Nuts. I was using my phone call to Nurmi, no answer.

No surprise, it's a cell-phone, it must be close to JA

Mari 68 wrote:

18thcenturylady wrote:The one thing I keep trying to hold onto is that I can't believe that a majority of the jurors would not see that this is clearly premeditated murder, (murder one). IF there is one or a couple that are dragging their feet, there is at least a chance that they can be persuaded to see the light.
IF there was a juror digging in their heels and making things impossible, I would think we would have heard about it by now, or yelling would be coming from the jury room.

Listen, we're kinda smart when it comes to this stuff. Not all jurors really understand anything at all about law and how to apply it. Some of those instructions were like run-on sentences.

They might be "learning" right now. Some of them could actually believe Travis attacked her - just that alone could cause them to have to "educate" themselves on the law. No matter if Travis attacked her - there is still pre-med in this crime.

Could just be some of them are being educated right now. Long process if this is your first time really understanding murder charges and how you come to determine what they are.

Plus, Arizona is different than here in California - so I kinda got an education with this case, too.

Thanks Mari,
VERY good points. I appreciate your insight and help. Trying to calm down now, lol!
Those instructions are indeed very complicated and convoluted.
Speaking of run on sentences, I saw a few of those in that letter Jodi wrote to the judge asking for Nurmi to stay on the case! Lol, seems like a few were a paragraph long with no punctuation!

18thcenturylady wrote:

auman58 wrote:I'm wondering if Wilmott and her hubby's law practice will suffer because of this debacle.....it sure can't help.

One can hope...I remember watching the CA trial I was raging non stop at Baez. I truly do think the man is a buffoon, unprofessional, and well, an idiot really. He did NOT win that case because he was "personable", or because of his 'lawyering' skills; he won because the jury was ignorant and lazy, period. After the trial his career took off like wildfire and all of the sudden he was commanding exorbitant fees and garnering high profile clients.
I haven't heard much about him recently, and think---hope---perhaps reality has set in, and now most out there see him for what he is---little more than an ambulance chasing blowhard, and a hack.

IF this jury does not find murder one and felony murder, it will be a 'win' for the defense, and both JW and KN will probably be touted as 'heros' and their practices will flourish---at least for awhile.
This is truly an unpalatable and scary thought.
It is just so horrifying to me that another WRONG verdict just sends a terrible message to everyone. It says that the system in the US is a joke, and that if you commit murder there's a good chance you can 'get off' all together, or with a ridiculous sentence. Is tells victims and their families that they too cannot count on our system to deliver justice. It reinforces to people like Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias that they can lie and manipulate lawyers, jurors, and everyone else to get what they want.

I can't and won't accept this.
Maybe there is nothing I can do, but I also know I can't damn well swallow any of it.

You said what I'm always trying to...whew! Thanks 18!

On one hand, I understand what Freckles wrote about this am- whatever the verdict, we'll all be ok etcetc (sorry Freckles for the lame-o paraphrase)...but...

My concerns about whether Hodi will be held accountable for her crimes go even farther than beautiful18 said...

I'm really tryin' to squeeze the nougat outta my loosey-goosey brain here...gimme a sec...

Maybemaybe it's just 'cause my brain is generally focused on philisophical big-picture life & death type stuff...When I worry 'bout the jury 'failing' to deliver justice in this particular case...The intense fear is more about what kind of culture I'm a part of; what we 'allow' to pass for Hodi's 'entitlement' for a fair trial. Not just the message this sends to the world- but what WE...you & me- ALLOW. Because (imoo) that IS the message we send whether we realize it or not. Always. We're a part of this culture...can't just lay claim to the good stuff without bearing some of the ugly.

Yes, the jury is free to follow their own consciences and I will accept that as their right. No individual outcome per se will affect my daily life...but to use ALV's 'global perspective'...My fears of living within/as an active part of a society that even indirectly reinforces her numerous, contininual, hideous choices...that freaks me out- not only can I not swallow that poison...but I'm gonna kick and scream, shout: "no friggin' way is this okay At ALL!"

I really do believe that each tiny voice can make a difference. Can't control much, but definitely believe our individual voices matter...and that it is our responsibility to use them to the best of our abilities. It buoys my heart to know that all you good souls are busy sweatin' and voicing these same kinda concerns...That is what will carry me through if yet another (JMOO) idiotic verdict comes through. Jurys' entitled to their opinion, we all are entitled to ours.

And if, God forbid, she gets rewarded for all her bs (via anything less than M1 GUILTY AS YOU-KNOW-WHAT)...well, I say that's not the end of this story, I suggest it's the start of our own. I will not go down in history as quietly acquiescing to Hodi's heinous antics. We all learn from each other...isn't precedent kinda important in our legal system? So if the jury rewards pulling junk outta behinds, letting it pass as a valid defense all whilst destroying the victim's reputation...I'm gonna be mad as a hornet and will NOT go quietly into that good night. Just thinkin' aloud...trying to soothe my tense, worried lil' brain as I wait...

18thcenturylady wrote:

Mari 68 wrote:


Listen, we're kinda smart when it comes to this stuff. Not all jurors really understand anything at all about law and how to apply it. Some of those instructions were like run-on sentences.

They might be "learning" right now. Some of them could actually believe Travis attacked her - just that alone could cause them to have to "educate" themselves on the law. No matter if Travis attacked her - there is still pre-med in this crime.

Could just be some of them are being educated right now. Long process if this is your first time really understanding murder charges and how you come to determine what they are.

Plus, Arizona is different than here in California - so I kinda got an education with this case, too.

Thanks Mari,
VERY good points. I appreciate your insight and help. Trying to calm down now, lol!
Those instructions are indeed very complicated and convoluted.
Speaking of run on sentences, I saw a few of those in that letter Jodi wrote to the judge asking for Nurmi to stay on the case! Lol, seems like a few were a paragraph long with no punctuation!

You're welcome. Really, though, I keep telling myself this crap cuz I'm freaking out and beginning to get angry. LOL

I would be sooooo irritated if most of us, speaking of the jurors, got it and there was this one freakin' moron we had to enunciate every word for.

keikikiki wrote:

18thcenturylady wrote:

One can hope...I remember watching the CA trial I was raging non stop at Baez. I truly do think the man is a buffoon, unprofessional, and well, an idiot really. He did NOT win that case because he was "personable", or because of his 'lawyering' skills; he won because the jury was ignorant and lazy, period. After the trial his career took off like wildfire and all of the sudden he was commanding exorbitant fees and garnering high profile clients.
I haven't heard much about him recently, and think---hope---perhaps reality has set in, and now most out there see him for what he is---little more than an ambulance chasing blowhard, and a hack.

IF this jury does not find murder one and felony murder, it will be a 'win' for the defense, and both JW and KN will probably be touted as 'heros' and their practices will flourish---at least for awhile.
This is truly an unpalatable and scary thought.
It is just so horrifying to me that another WRONG verdict just sends a terrible message to everyone. It says that the system in the US is a joke, and that if you commit murder there's a good chance you can 'get off' all together, or with a ridiculous sentence. Is tells victims and their families that they too cannot count on our system to deliver justice. It reinforces to people like Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias that they can lie and manipulate lawyers, jurors, and everyone else to get what they want.

I can't and won't accept this.
Maybe there is nothing I can do, but I also know I can't damn well swallow any of it.

You said what I'm always trying to...whew! Thanks 18!

On one hand, I understand what Freckles wrote about this am- whatever the verdict, we'll all be ok etcetc (sorry Freckles for the lame-o paraphrase)...but...

My concerns about whether Hodi will be held accountable for her crimes go even farther than beautiful18 said...

I'm really tryin' to squeeze the nougat outta my loosey-goosey brain here...gimme a sec...

Maybemaybe it's just 'cause my brain is generally focused on philisophical big-picture life & death type stuff...When I worry 'bout the jury 'failing' to deliver justice in this particular case...The intense fear is more about what kind of culture I'm a part of; what we 'allow' to pass for Hodi's 'entitlement' for a fair trial. Not just the message this sends to the world- but what WE...you & me- ALLOW. Because (imoo) that IS the message we send whether we realize it or not. Always. We're a part of this culture...can't just lay claim to the good stuff without bearing some of the ugly.

Yes, the jury is free to follow their own consciences and I will accept that as their right. No individual outcome per se will affect my daily life...but to use ALV's 'global perspective'...My fears of living within/as an active part of a society that even indirectly reinforces her numerous, contininual, hideous choices...that freaks me out- not only can I not swallow that poison...but I'm gonna kick and scream, shout: "no friggin' way is this okay At ALL!"

I really do believe that each tiny voice can make a difference. Can't control much, but definitely believe our individual voices matter...and that it is our responsibility to use them to the best of our abilities. It buoys my heart to know that all you good souls are busy sweatin' and voicing these same kinda concerns...That is what will carry me through if yet another (JMOO) idiotic verdict comes through. Jurys' entitled to their opinion, we all are entitled to ours.

And if, God forbid, she gets rewarded for all her bs (via anything less than M1 GUILTY AS YOU-KNOW-WHAT)...well, I say that's not the end of this story, I suggest it's the start of our own. I will not go down in history as quietly acquiescing to Hodi's heinous antics. We all learn from each other...isn't precedent kinda important in our legal system? So if the jury rewards pulling junk outta behinds, letting it pass as a valid defense all whilst destroying the victim's reputation...I'm gonna be mad as a hornet and will NOT go quietly into that good night. Just thinkin' aloud...trying to soothe my tense, worried lil' brain as I wait...

PERFECTLY SAID, KIKI!!! You my friend, are very wise, and I happen to agree with everything you so movingly and rightly said! Thank you!!!

keikikiki wrote:

18thcenturylady wrote:

One can hope...I remember watching the CA trial I was raging non stop at Baez. I truly do think the man is a buffoon, unprofessional, and well, an idiot really. He did NOT win that case because he was "personable", or because of his 'lawyering' skills; he won because the jury was ignorant and lazy, period. After the trial hibs career took off like wildfire and all of the sudden he was commanding exorbitant fees and garnering high profile clients.
I haven't heard much about him recently, and think---hope---perhaps reality has set in, and now most out there see him for what he is---little more than an ambulance chasing blowhard, and a hack.

IF this jury does not find murder one and felony murder, it will be a 'win' for the defense, and both JW and KN will probably be touted as 'heros' and their practices will flourish---at least for awhile.
This is truly an unpalatable and scary thought.
It is just so horrifying to me that another WRONG verdict just sends a terrible message to everyone. It says that the system in the US is a joke, and that if you commit murder there's a good chance you can 'get off' all together, or with a ridiculous sentence. Is tells victims and their families that they too cannot count on our system to deliver justice. It reinforces to people like Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias that they can lie and manipulate lawyers, jurors, and everyone else to get what they want.

I can't and won't accept this.
Maybe there is nothing I can do, but I also know I can't damn well swallow any of it.

You said what I'm always trying to...whew! Thanks 18!

On one hand, I understand what Freckles wrote about this am- whatever the verdict, we'll all be ok etcetc (sorry Freckles for the lame-o paraphrase)...but...

My concerns about whether Hodi will be held accountable for her crimes go even farther than beautiful18 said...

I'm really tryin' to squeeze the nougat outta my loosey-goosey brain here...gimme a sec...

Maybemaybe it's just 'cause my brain is generally focused on philisophical big-picture life & death type stuff...When I worry 'bout the jury 'failing' to deliver justice in this particular case...The intense fear is more about what kind of culture I'm a part of; what we 'allow' to pass for Hodi's 'entitlement' for a fair trial. Not just the message this sends to the world- but what WE...you & me- ALLOW. Because (imoo) that IS the message we send whether we realize it or not. Always. We're a part of this culture...can't just lay claim to the good stuff without bearing some of the ugly.

Yes, the jury is free to follow their own consciences and I will accept that as their right. No individual outcome per se will affect my daily life...but to use ALV's 'global perspective'...My fears of living within/as an active part of a society that even indirectly reinforces her numerous, contininual, hideous choices...that freaks me out- not only can I not swallow that poison...but I'm gonna kick and scream, shout: "no friggin' way is this okay At ALL!"

I really do believe that each tiny voice can make a difference. Can't control much, but definitely believe our individual voices matter...and that it is our responsibility to use them to the best of our abilities. It buoys my heart to know that all you good souls are busy sweatin' and voicing these same kinda concerns...That is what will carry me through if yet another (JMOO) idiotic verdict comes through. Jurys' entitled to their opinion, we all are entitled to ours.

And if, God forbid, she gets rewarded for all her bs (via anything less than M1 GUILTY AS YOU-KNOW-WHAT)...well, I say that's not the end of this story, I suggest it's the start of our own. I will not go down in history as quietly acquiescing to Hodi's heinous antics. We all learn from each other...isn't precedent kinda important in our legal system? So if the jury rewards pulling junk outta behinds, letting it pass as a valid defense all whilst destroying the victim's reputation...I'm gonna be mad as a hornet and will NOT go quietly into that good night. Just thinkin' aloud...trying to soothe my tense, worried lil' brain as I wait...

You stated my concern about our justice system very well. I try being positive because I WANT to believe in our system and the wrong verdict would be a direct stab at my belief system.

tesstruhart wrote:

18thcenturylady wrote:The one thing I keep trying to hold onto is that I can't believe that a majority of the jurors would not see that this is clearly premeditated murder, (murder one). IF there is one or a couple that are dragging their feet, there is at least a chance that they can be persuaded to see the light.
IF there was a juror digging in their heels and making things impossible, I would think we would have heard about it by now, or yelling would be coming from the jury room.

18, one thing to think about, its so different when we sit here and things are so obvious to us and we say M1 DP. No question. However, on the flip side, these people have another person's life in their hands. It is not so easy to be glib then. It is a huge responsibility and burden. They want to go thru things to make sure their decision is the right one. I don't begrudge them this. I was called for a murder trial once and did go thru voir dire but did not make the jury. The judge explained to us before the attornies started questioning us that this was a death penalty case. we would have to declare our thoughts on the DP etc. The feeling was one of enormous weight. So, when they have the verdict it will be so that they can live with themselves after this is all over.

they have listened to the testimony for 4 long tedious months... the judge appealed to them to sort through the testimony to decide what is fact what is not... and they have to agree about this to decide on guilt... so could take a couple of months!

Pianist wrote:

keikikiki wrote:

You said what I'm always trying to...whew! Thanks 18!

On one hand, I understand what Freckles wrote about this am- whatever the verdict, we'll all be ok etcetc (sorry Freckles for the lame-o paraphrase)...but...

My concerns about whether Hodi will be held accountable for her crimes go even farther than beautiful18 said...

I'm really tryin' to squeeze the nougat outta my loosey-goosey brain here...gimme a sec...

Maybemaybe it's just 'cause my brain is generally focused on philisophical big-picture life & death type stuff...When I worry 'bout the jury 'failing' to deliver justice in this particular case...The intense fear is more about what kind of culture I'm a part of; what we 'allow' to pass for Hodi's 'entitlement' for a fair trial. Not just the message this sends to the world- but what WE...you & me- ALLOW. Because (imoo) that IS the message we send whether we realize it or not. Always. We're a part of this culture...can't just lay claim to the good stuff without bearing some of the ugly.

Yes, the jury is free to follow their own consciences and I will accept that as their right. No individual outcome per se will affect my daily life...but to use ALV's 'global perspective'...My fears of living within/as an active part of a society that even indirectly reinforces her numerous, contininual, hideous choices...that freaks me out- not only can I not swallow that poison...but I'm gonna kick and scream, shout: "no friggin' way is this okay At ALL!"

I really do believe that each tiny voice can make a difference. Can't control much, but definitely believe our individual voices matter...and that it is our responsibility to use them to the best of our abilities. It buoys my heart to know that all you good souls are busy sweatin' and voicing these same kinda concerns...That is what will carry me through if yet another (JMOO) idiotic verdict comes through. Jurys' entitled to their opinion, we all are entitled to ours.

And if, God forbid, she gets rewarded for all her bs (via anything less than M1 GUILTY AS YOU-KNOW-WHAT)...well, I say that's not the end of this story, I suggest it's the start of our own. I will not go down in history as quietly acquiescing to Hodi's heinous antics. We all learn from each other...isn't precedent kinda important in our legal system? So if the jury rewards pulling junk outta behinds, letting it pass as a valid defense all whilst destroying the victim's reputation...I'm gonna be mad as a hornet and will NOT go quietly into that good night. Just thinkin' aloud...trying to soothe my tense, worried lil' brain as I wait...

You stated my concern about our justice system very well. I try being positive because I WANT to believe in our system and the wrong verdict would be a direct stab at my belief system.

Thanks....me too. I am just so fearful and shellshocked at present. Verdict worry is probably premature, but I just can't help it...It's the darn ghosts of the Pinellas 12.

Yes, ladies and gents...I am thinking the ghosts of the Pinellas 12 might just might be lurkin' about. I did not know of RC at the time. Did lots and lots of my own research to uncover 'truth'. Baez is (imoo) a prime example of the gross distortion of defense lawyering that has developed here in the US of A. Don't even get me started (jk).

Point being, I did not know how or where to direct my knowledge and/or opinions. Assumed they didn't matter anyway, and there were plenty of opinions bein' thrown 'bout everywhere. Now I'm thinkin' it's time to look alive and be a more active voice in whatever way I can. The very act of my staying silent spoke loudly. Not that my hollering into ether wouldacoulda made a different outcome...but just being engaged, even just mentally (in a goofy fog to boot) feels like a more responsible choice than shrugging my shoulders and giving up.

Now I'm hearing lotsalotsa stress over that obscene CA verdict...which, now that I've got my global perspective tin foil hat on, leads me to believe somebodysomewhere's gotta do somethin' 'cause these narcissistic lyin' pyts are wreakin' havoc on our collective psyche and legal system. Not to mention our place in the history books. Our media circus culture is just feelin' way outta wack imo...rewarding these demons. Ugh. I wanna get Supernanny on their @$$es. Jk. Thinking we need somethin' a lil' stronger than what she or the Dog Whisperer can deliver.

Sounds like way too many of us have PTSD over that verdict...is there a thread for us to cope?

I so agree with you, kiki. Thanks again for the way you put things!
So, it's 5:30 PM where I am, and mid afternoon in Arizona. I did say I thought the verdict would come in today.
I am now rethinking and revising my original hunch. Sadly, I suspect that there is a juror or two that needs convincing as to murder one. Jurors cannot just dig in their heels and refuse to discuss why they feel as they do, so I am hoping that the rest of those in that room are trying to explain and discuss each concern, throwing out their feelings and ideas, as well as reminding any who need it what constitutes premeditation.
This could go on for days and days. Not something anyone wants, but there it is.
IF after a few more days of this this jury is getting nowhere, they would notify the judge. Now, I know that the judge would not just accept that they are hung just like that. She would give them a talking to and admonish them to "try again" to come to a meeting of the minds, so while I am decidedly worried and NOT a happy camper at the moment, all is not lost...not yet anyway.
I wish I had another thought as to what can be going on, but honestly I do think this is a matter of several jurors trying to convince one or more recalcitrant ones of some of the facts of this case.
I personally just hope that those who may be the ones holding up a verdict have open minds and hearts, and can listen to reason, and the facts about what constitutes what is reasonable to believe.

Just thinkin' aloud again...

Somewhere on RC I linked into an HLN description of the jurors...

Again...just tryin' to pass the time waitin'...but one juror struck me, only b/c of an HLN 'After Dark' (IknowIKNOW peeps, but it was awhile back and I can't erase the memory of it! )...anyhoo...on that episode, the jury was to decide if Ho-dog was a danger to society...that was the bold accusation or whatever the heck they're callin' it...okay...so I've wanted to holler about this since, but 'cause I love and appreciate the male species so very much, especially the testosterone voices here on RC (long-overdue shout out to y'all: Olivier, gsweater, auman, Bo: if I've forgotten anyone or mistaken any identities, forgive me pls and I'll blame it on the fog anyway so...)

Okay...so the verdict was 100% guilty from women on that jury, and I WAS COMPLETELY SHOCKED AND DUMBFOUNDED to see that the only 2 not guilty verdicts were young males...I'll spare y'all what I said aloud to them thru the tele that night, but SERIOUSLY???

Duuuuuuuuuuuudes...WHOA.

The only potential victims on that whole jury, and it's these 2 brainiacs that argued that her slaughter of TA was "JUST A ONE-TIME THING"/"things just got carried away"/"who knows what really went on to force her to do such an unique one-timey thingamajig". So I said to the tele, I said, "HHHHHHHUUUUUUUUH?"

Amongst other things. Use your fertile imaginations. Ha.

So back we go to the beginning of my circuitous logic...There's one young-ish male juror on here, and YES...boys...IKNOWIKNOW lotsnlots o' ya have functioning hippocampi + frontal lobes...I'm just sayin'...shruggin'...just throwin' my worries out there. As the Ho-dog herself would say, don't be hatin'...

Seriously all: I'm just fritterin' the time away with silly brain teases...joking...As always, the only way I can cope with tough times is my Napoleon Dynamite-ish sense (or lack thereof) humor. If anyone knows of him, he's got my go-to quote for thinkin' 'bout Hodi sympathizers/too lenient w/their benefit of the doubt faculites: "Iddddioot. Gossssh."

Ok....Seriously....with the plethera of evidence (actual) real evidence and she ADMITTED to it...minus all the Psychologists psycho babble (which they shouldn't even be considering) and minus Jodi Arias testimony (liar)....what in God's green earth could be the hang up??? If THIS jury is having trouble with THIS amount of evidence and can't reach a M1 verdict in a nano-second
....I'm truly at a loss with our justice system or common sense existing at all anymore.... This was a no-brainer IMO yes...venting!!!! LOL

They weren't just charged with finding guilt or innocence.

They were charged with finding whether or not Jodi's crime fit premeditation and/or felony murder.

So that might be taking a schitt-ton of time

My stomach is in knots here and I catch myself thinking
the same 'happy thoughts' about these 12 citizens as I did
about a different 12 in July/11...and then I get sicker.
Can only imagine what the Family/Sisters are going through.

Then again, on Friday I predicted it would come down on Weds...so I don't why do I feel so jittery?
They said the 5 Jurors on smoke break were SMILING and
in GOOD SPIRITS when the returned...so..I'm saying that's a GOOD THING!! If it was achromonious in there I would think they would be frowning/scowling?

I just hope at least some of them have come to know Travis like we have.
<<>>

My biggest fear is that 1 or more Jurors might be disgusted by the Media Circus they walk past everyday, and may also
hate the 'NancyGrace' type shows on TV...and might be trying to 'make a statement' or some such.

There I said it.
I've been thinking this for a while but refrained from posting cause I didn't want to jinx anything but I can't hold it in anymore.
I am firmly convinced there were a few on the CA case that were so opposed to the DP, that they lied during voir dire just to get on and 'make a statement'

Don't mind me though, my faith in the system has been so shattered that I'm unduly paranoid and and practically guaranteed to be dead wrong.

On Websleuths someone said the Jury has already agreed on GUILTY and is just dragging it out to make Hodi suffer like they made them suffer..
I LIKE THAT THEORY BETTER!

Longest Jury Deliberations...FYI:

http://lawyersupdate.co.in/lu/13/422.asp
Civil: 4.5 Months
Criminal: 4 Months

glazier wrote:My biggest fear is that 1 or more Jurors might be disgusted by the Media Circus they walk past everyday, and may also
hate the 'NancyGrace' type shows on TV...and might be trying to 'make a statement' or some such.

There I said it.
I've been thinking this for a while but refrained from posting cause I didn't want to jinx anything but I can't hold it in anymore.
I am firmly convinced there were a few on the CA case that were so opposed to the DP, that they lied during voir dire just to get on and 'make a statement'

Don't mind me though, my faith in the system has been so shattered that I'm unduly paranoid and and practically guaranteed to be dead wrong.

On Websleuths someone said the Jury has already agreed on GUILTY and is just dragging it out to make Hodi suffer like they made them suffer..
I LIKE THAT THEORY BETTER!

I like that one better too My dang crystal ball just never seems to work! Except in hindsight

They've gotta know how much power they have in their hands right now. Over the media circus as well as Hodi/dteam and our man JM/the lovely Alexander family...Just doin' my best to self-soothe and re-direct angst into trust/hope/faith/love toward TA & family. It will be interesting to hear what their thinking/process is right now aka wth...that is, unless it's contrary to common sense. Then...oh crap! See what happens??? Okayokay. Back to happyhappytrusty thoughts. Good jurors. Smart jurors. Responsible jurors. Jurors w/working bs detectors...

Tweet



elizabetherwin Deliberations resume at 10am tomorrow. #jodiarias 39 seconds ago

VinniePolitan #JodiArias jury going home... about 1 minute ago

elizabetherwin The jurors looked a little tired when they left the jury room just now...it's been a long few days (long few months really) #JodiArias 2 minutes ago

BethKaras Jurors just left for the day. #jodiarias

The best Jodi can hope for is a mistrial. The worst Travis would get is a mistrial. Jodi wont get LaViolette next time. No Ducky Dick Doc. And all her lies from the stand. Lets all calm down. We all admit this is not the normal every day trial. This was/is a circus for ratings.

I'm with u Mari.

Anyone recall how long the jury deliberated on the CA case?

Mari-
I agree! There is enuff drama in this case without us adding to it. After all, it IS coming on FIVE years since Travis died. It is one thing for the family to feel the direct impact but another thing all together for us to try to belong to that emotion. As much as I feel emotionally invested, we are only trial watchers, after all. (And if you want to be of help, do drop a card off to the family... THEY are now the ones who could use the support.)

58(?) days of trial, 600+ exhibits and not allowed to speak other than through a series of snarky questions for JA and her witnesses. I'm certain a verdict of First is coming, but trying to decide on Felony, Premed...

I also imagine that they spent a good deal of time the last two days looking at that picture of JA's gaping @sshole and were trying to figure out what the hell it was and how it got that way - rickety wrecked! Not to mention the horrid pictures of her jizz dumpster. Ewww...

HLN is ridiculous...except BK. No wonder this is a circus. Soundbites count more than substance. Day 3 - uh, nooooo. 13 hours. Jean C is imo irresponsible - she must have taken the ALV course in reading the mind of a photo/juror in hallway. No one knows what is going on in the deliberations except those 12 folks. They are doing their job and none of us want them to do less....if they did, that would entail another week long "after dark" session. lol

Waiting is very difficult, but to Freckles point, none more so than for Travis' family. Peace and Prayers.

These messages give me a sense of peace. Thank you. I feel like you do. This jury is doing its job. I also feel murder 1 will be the outcome. My prayers go to the family. Thanks again. Calmer minds must prevail.

JA team is now selling "survivor" tee shirts....
Don't buy!

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/05/07/jodi-arias-murder-trial-attacked-nancy-grace-twitter

Yup. I'm not watching any hln. The tweets are enough. They love sensationalism.

IMO, this is not surprising and it doesn't mean they are going to aquit her. Doesn't mean the 'state' is losing. Rubbish! Don't buy into it. I firmly believe there are jurors who believe she is M1 and I can't imagine them 'settling' for a lesser charge.

I remember CA trial as others and I remember what their problem was. There was nothing that directly linked her to the death and no cause of death. You can't punish someone when the state couldn't prove it. IMO, she was over charged. Did I think she did it? Yup.

This is different. So much evidence, so many facts and the only defense is merit less smoke and mirror arguments. Don't fall for HLN!

My son asked me tonight why the jury hasn't decided yet. My answer was this: if the trial had not been televised it would have been over long ago. HLN will keep up the hype because of ratings. They have risen in the ratings significantly. $$$$. They will move on to the next trial to keep those ratings up. He said. That doesn't sound like justice. Does it? My answer was no I don't think it does.

I agree that it would over if not televised, and I also think that 1/2 those HLN HOPE for an aquital or mistrial CAUSE THAT WOULD MEAN MORTE RATINGS!

I'm getting seriously pissed now.
They literally have a photo of the crime...
ahhhhh...

tomorrow is another day and it ain't over till it's over.
positive vibes towards Phoenix...

sassy-
I followed some of the CA trial.
It DID have a lot of forensic evidence.
I was impressed with ALL the prose expert witnesses especially those connected with the body farm.

IMO, the CA trial was the "white" rebellion re the OJ trial.
Nothing more, nothing less. And they WERE wanting to write books! It was a case of rebellion by the jurors.

Baez was a poor atty. While he was constantly being sanctioned, he never was punished in anyway for his improprieties in the court.

I just thought about something. You know how KN said that with her intelligence she would have had a better plan? Well the plan to get there was detailed and good. What if she had sex with him in order to get him into the shower? She knew his habits. He would take a shower after having sex. With him in the shower she thought she could kill him, wash away all her DNA and leave. The problem was he did not die and fought back. Just a thought.

Freckles wrote:JA team is now selling "survivor" tee shirts....
Don't buy!

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/05/07/jodi-arias-murder-trial-attacked-nancy-grace-twitter

Huh.. I like this one better:



Make up your own "back message". I'm sure we're all thinking the same thing...

Pianist wrote:I just thought about something. You know how KN said that with her intelligence she would have had a better plan? Well the plan to get there was detailed and good. What if she had sex with him in order to get him into the shower? She knew his habits. He would take a shower after having sex. With him in the shower she thought she could kill him, wash away all her DNA and leave. The problem was he did not die and fought back. Just a thought.

Agree completely.

KN is full of it. One does not take such extensive precautions- we all know what those are by now...her pre-meditation...and then willy-nilly decide to get naked last minute and slaughter as an afterthought or reaction. No way Jose. She planned the whole thing, 'Secret'-style...

Jmoo, but once I began hearing the actual evidence, especially the photos/timeline...it seems beyond obvious that her goal was to get him into the shower, vulnerable. There was a time, long ago...at first glance, that I imposed MY own thoughts onto her, and had difficulty imagining why not use gun first, and earlier, catch him off guard. But then came the trial, more evidence, more understanding about how different evil thinks than I do...and now it seems clear to me that she wanted him as vulnerable and relaxed as possible, only in order to express her rage with the knife. I do believe that she wanted to inflict pain and suffering and that she took some delight in it. That's just how twisted I think she is. But...Just my thoughts, as usual.

Quick word about HLN: I haven't turned that channel on in a couple weeks...yes, I'm off the junk.

Just don't wanna give my business to feed the media beast. So I come here.

Btw...If once again I have misunderstood the proper use of this forum, please just call me out by name. I'm never sure if my thoughts are being understood or are just plain irritating.

From all I've read on this site, I cannot imagine any one of us intending (even indirectly) to equate our own emotional state to the Alexanders'. Nor can I fathom that any one of us would want to add to their burden/drama in even the slightest of ways. In fact, my sense is that is the opposite of what any of us want.

I must be confused, because although I hear concern about the verdict here, I don't hear what some of you are referring to as we need to calm down. Yes, there's stress being expressed, but all seem okeydokey from this vantage point. Just chitchatting. No biggie...just wanted to say that in print. Not sure how level-headed folks chatting online about this adds to the Alexanders' heartache. That is a very sad thing to be charged with.

If I am way off base here, feel free to lemme have it.

Personally, I enjoy hearing ALL your thoughts, only wish there were more of you out there contributing. It's always interesting, often enlightening, often hilarious, always therapeutic. JMO folks.

Having gone thru the M1 trial for ex SIL for murdering my daughter, I know exactly what the Alexander family is going thru. While the jury was out deliberating, SIL asked if he could speak with his father. They let him, and I thought that was unheard of. However, his dad was a pretty nice guy, as he went to talk to the DA, and told him his son planned to make a run for the door if they come back with M1 verdict.

When we were notified the verdict was in, our family and friends, plus his mom and dad sat behind the DA's table, and they had street clothes detectives and uniformed cops sitting behind his table and they were ready to take him out if he made a run for it.

We only had to wait 2 days for the verdict. They were separated and he was living with another woman at the time. His girlfriend was in Atlanta for a conference, so he was out at a club, drunk and drugged, (which is why they separated) and someone told him my daughter was moving to Raleigh, which is 4 hours from where we live. He went to her house, broke in and stabbed her 50+ times with 4 different knives, which were lying on her kitchen cabinet, breaking all 4 blades off inside her. Talk about someone being butchered, she was. He also bit her nipples off, raped her and bit a huge chuck out of one of her arms as she was trying to fight him off. Her 2-1/2 y/o son got out of bed, went to the kitchen and saw all this. Police & EMT's, when they got there, said he was still in process of raping her when they went into the house.

The jury came back in 1 time to ask the judge to read them exactly what Crime of Passion was, which only carries a sentence of Man Slaughter. And that is what they gave him.

The judge gave them an example: a fellow comes home from work and catches his wife in bed with another man, and shoots them. The deed has to be done in less than a minute for it to be a CoP. First of all, they were separated, he was living with someone else, and there was testimony that he had seen the knives earlier that afternoon, threw each of them down and they stood up in the floor, and he said, Dam you could kill someone with these.

She had already had him in court twice before for beating her up and causing her to go to the hospital, but that could not be brought up in court. The 2nd time was only 1 month before he killed her. He was sentenced to 20 years, and served 8 years, 4 months and 12 days. Not near long enough and is now out free walking the streets of Charlotte NC.

Sitemama-




Sometimes, I have to wonder what it is all about...
I doubt if there if such a thing as "healing"...
I only hope you have cherished memories to replace the horrors and tragedies inflicted upon your daughter and upon your family and upon your heart. Truly, yours is a miscarriage of justice...

Sitemama: I have thought of your (and your daughter's, your family's) story since first hearing it in April, which prompted me to immediately sign the ALV petition linked here. I have zero regrets about signing that; I had your daughter in my heart as well as Travis that night.

Since then, I have often thought of you and your daughter...and like Freckles (and many of us, no doubt) it is YOUR story that makes me question everything I thought I knew. There are no words I can string together to express the love and support I want for you. All I can do is give you all the empathy and prayers I've got. God I wish there was more the world could do to ease your burden. Never have I understood how such evil walks amongst us, or why. No one does, I suppose. Ahhhhhh. Tears. That's all I've got right now.

I know there's not much any one of us alone can do to eliminate evil, or even contain it. All I can think of these days is to speak of it, to shed light on it. Try to envelope each other with prayer and love and support. I wish I wish I wish there was more we could do.

Mornin' everyone !

Here are my ideas to explain why it takes a long time.

1) Testosterone : Yes, especially about young males, you're right Keikikiki, they would not decide easily to send a young cute nympho woman to DP or LWOP. "What a waste" are saying their guts. When you see the link added by Alessandra, M1 goes automatically to DP/LWOP when they could probably want only 20 years in prison so it's quite difficult for them to vote for it, even if they were convinced. http://www.realitychatter.com/t4313p400-jodi-arias-trial-for-the-murder-of-travis-alexander-16#211979
http://www.realitychatter.com/t4313p800-jodi-arias-trial-for-the-murder-of-travis-alexander-16#212461

2) Dildo with heartbeat : Defense has been good to one point, showing that TA was not always that kind. Some of the jurors (male and female this time I think) could see a woman that wanted to get married on one side and a man using her only as 'open sex' on the other. Why did he have sex with her (even in his last day) if he feared her ? That's a big punch to the stalker theory.

3) System : All is done to forbid to expose prejudicial stuff against the killer but conversely imposes mitigation for the killer and allows trashing the victim. It also put a tremendous pressure on the jurors and the consequences of their decision. How could all that not incline to lesser charges ?
http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/04/04/hln-after-dark-what-jury-doesnt-know

4) Circumstancial : Yes, JM explanation was good about it. I'm suprised that KN didn't show tracks created by the wind in the desert, mitigation specialist works like that as it's very easy to add doubt to anything.

5) Jurors relationships. You can't have lunches, pauses for 4 monthes with 11 others without building relationships. If you aren't completely sure of your decision and someone you appreciate thinks the opposite, that complicates your decision. Jurors may have also weak and strong personality, it's difficult for the weak to convince but doesn't mean that they will change their thinkings.

In my idea, they would go more easily to something like 'life with possibility of parole after 20 years' but I don't know if this is a choice offered to them. So if they have to choose only between DP/LWOP and free in 5 years, it could be long.... or hung.

V-E Day, I have a special thinking to the young men who came to France and lost their life to deliver Europe from the nazis.

olivier57 wrote:Mornin' everyone !

Here are my ideas to explain why it takes a long time.

1) Testosterone : Yes, especially about young males, you're right Keikikiki, they would not decide easily to send a young cute nympho woman to DP or LWOP. "What a waste" are saying their guts. When you see the link added by Alessandra, M1 goes automatically to DP/LWOP when they could probably want only 20 years in prison so it's quite difficult for them to vote for it, even if they were convinced. http://www.realitychatter.com/t4313p400-jodi-arias-trial-for-the-murder-of-travis-alexander-16#211979
http://www.realitychatter.com/t4313p800-jodi-arias-trial-for-the-murder-of-travis-alexander-16#212461

2) Dildo with heartbeat : Defense has been good to one point, showing that TA was not always that kind. Some of the jurors (male and female this time I think) could see a woman that wanted to get married on one side and a man using her only as 'open sex' on the other. Why did he have sex with her (even in his last day) if he feared her ? That's a big punch to the stalker theory.

3) System : All is done to forbid to expose prejudicial stuff against the killer but conversely imposes mitigation for the killer and allows trashing the victim. It also put a tremendous pressure on the jurors and the consequences of their decision. How could all that not incline to lesser charges ?
http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/04/04/hln-after-dark-what-jury-doesnt-know

4) Circumstancial : Yes, JM explanation was good about it. I'm suprised that KN didn't show tracks created by the wind in the desert, mitigation specialist works like that as it's very easy to add doubt to anything.

5) Jurors relationships. You can't have lunches, pauses for 4 monthes with 11 others without building relationships. If you aren't completely sure of your decision and someone you appreciate thinks the opposite, that complicates your decision. Jurors may have also weak and strong personality, it's difficult for the weak to convince but doesn't mean that they will change their thinkings.

In my idea, they would go more easily to something like 'life with possibility of parole after 20 years' but I don't know if this is a choice offered to them. So if they have to choose only between DP/LWOP and free in 5 years, it could be long.... or hung.

Good morning Olivier,
Wow. What a great post. You have perfectly expressed what I think are the fears of many or at least several of us. I agree with you 100% about the points you make above. I can't see anything but that this is clearly murder one, and I think it has most definitely been proven beyond any reasonable doubt, but I have been very fearful that these jurors will NOT make the right decision, and for the very reasons you have stated so well.

My heart is breaking for Sitemama, and her terrible tragedy was compounded by just such wrong headed thinking by a jury. Sure, you want to think things out and be fair to a defendant, but what about the victims who HAVE NO LIFE ANYMORE? They never had a chance for a life.
I am losing hope with every hour that this jury is out. I can see all too well some of the above being the result. Last night I finally broke down and had a real sobbing cry to hubby, letting him know all I had emotionally been going through and what the injustice of a 'bad' verdict will do to me and WHY. I finally let it all out about how I lost hope in my own life, and by extension lost the will to go on, not caring if something happened to me anymore. Cathartic at least to cry it all out and say it.

The thinking that gee, Jodi is young, this is a "one time thing", lets just call it crime of passion and give her 20 years is so horrifying. How can 12 people completely disregard every glaring piece of premeditation in front of their faces? How can they not see it from the point of the victim in this case---the REAL victim---Travis Alexander, who was also young and who had no chance at all?

Olivier, I have ALWAYS thought that what you mentioned in your point #2 could be a big problem for some. It has always been difficult to understand that Travis chose to have sex with Jodi the day he was killed. This is AFTER his very upset and agitated email of May 26th where he tells her he doesn't want anything more to do with her, and that she is "the worst thing that ever happened" to him. He sounded pretty serious and resolute, and I have always thought that for Jodi to have even gained admittance to his house on June 4th, she had to have done some very fancy talking! I am NOT one of those who think she used his code and walked in unannounced. Travis was very angry with her. I think on that day she rang the bell. I don't think at that moment she wanted to anger him further by violating his privacy and walking in uninvited. As some here have pointed out, IF she had 'sneaked' and and stood looking at him in his office, he would have seen her immediately, since his DESK FACED THE DOOR. I also think Napoleon would have barked as soon as she entered the home. This is probably not the most important issue---at some point, she would have HAD to give Travis some kind of BS story as to why she was there at his house at 4 AM after he told her he wanted nothing to do with her.
What I have always had a problem with is that IF he was afraid of her and even if she started off with apologies or saying she just wanted to talk to him and end things face to face and on civil terms, I still can't fathom why Travis would have allowed himself to then jump into bed with her yet again, after saying only days before that she was "pure evilness", and to leave him alone.
He certainly knew she was capable of great hurt and destruction on some level, and that is the one part of that day that I personally have a hard time understanding.
I don't think every guy out there is willing to jump into bed with someone they fear or dislike, just to have sex!

While I have no problem seeing this as a clearly premeditated murder, I agree with you that for some reason, the fact that they spent the day together and that he had had sex with her before the murder MAY be an issue for several jurors.

I disagree with someone here who said several posts above that the jury may be 'making Jodi suffer' by delaying this. I don't think they would ever do something like that. I really do feel that they want to get their job done and over with in as timely a manner as possible. I also don't think they want the Alexander family to wonder or suffer longer than necessary.

None of what Olivier has outlined so beautifully and clearly above should in any way negate a finding of murder one in my opinion, BUT, and it's a big sad BUT---I can see all too well how some people use these reasons/excuses to come to a lesser verdict. I think it's terrible and horrible, but in a way I think WE are partly to blame. Our system, I mean. As long as many pertinent facts are kept OUT of trials under the guise of being 'too prejudicial' TO THE DEFENDANT, this is the kind of thing that will keep happening, and it is the victims that will be murdered and disrespected ALL OVER AGAIN.

I am sorry this is so long. Probably my one post for the day.
I truly do fear now that we will NOT be getting the M1 verdict we all hope for. I am sorry to say that, and even sorrier to believe it, but I agree with the points that Olivier made, and I see all too well how that indeed could be what is happening with this jury. I think I knew last night that this was not going to be good. I had such a bad feeling inside and I just let loose sobbing. I couldn't shake it. I can only hope I am proven wrong.

Isn't it true, they are NOT to consider the punishment when picking the guilt?
If so, I can't imagine they are allowed to openly discuss penalties and what they feel would be more fitting. IMO

OK this was weird but gives me a good feeling any how... On my way to work this morning I was at a main intersection (with light) leaving my neighborhood... I'm first at the light listening to the radio and i hear something to the left of me, the car next door is trying to get my attention. I think he needs directions or something so I put the window down and he starts talking Jesus to me out of the blue... I said Thank you and he blessed me and i said you too... I was totally taken back by this! I'm not a religious person but I've been praying and talking to TA alot lately... Please be today!!!!! lol

sassy you are correct, JM even told them to not even consider punishment at this point.