James Holmes: Colorado Theater Murder Trial

CuriousPortlander wrote:
Thanks for all the photos, Mylife!  

All I can say is WOW!  I can't believe how much planning must have gone into all of this.  Just wow.

Mylife101 wrote:

CuriousPortlander wrote:
Thanks for all the photos, Mylife!  

All I can say is WOW!  I can't believe how much planning must have gone into all of this.  Just wow.

You're welcome.  There are actually even more photos.  It is clear that JH spent a lot of time researching explosives and too little time researching neuroscience.  It's really not surprising that JH's college work suffered that semester when you stop to consider how much time he must have spent on locating all of these devices, ammunition, body armor, weapons, chemicals, etc. and then figuring out how to use them to carry out his plan. So, so much planning and time went into this crime.

I'm not sure if I missed this, but have we learned how LE was first alerted to the fact that JH's apartment was rigged with explosives. I have seen the transcript of the interrogation between the bomb detective and JH in which the detective is asking JH for more information about what all is in his apartment that they need to worry about; however, I'm still not clear how they originally learned about the dangers behind the apartment door.  Did JH just come right out and tell LE about the apartment after he was arrested or did LE learn on their own that the apartment was rigged?  Can one of you help me out on this bit of case knowledge?

Mylife101 wrote:"And:  "Aaron Blue, a fellow officer, testified that he took out a knife and cut away Holmes' protective gear to search for other weapons. Blue said he asked Holmes whether he had any explosives, and Holmes told him that he had improvised devices at his apartment that would go off if they were triggered."

Thanks, CP. This is the answer that I have been looking for.  I think the door that LE was kicking down may have been the outside door that accesses the hallway that leads to interior individual apartment doors.  I don't think they ever attempted to kick down the door to JH's actual apartment #10. Does this sound correct?

Mylife101 wrote:"And:  "Aaron Blue, a fellow officer, testified that he took out a knife and cut away Holmes' protective gear to search for other weapons. Blue said he asked Holmes whether he had any explosives, and Holmes told him that he had improvised devices at his apartment that would go off if they were triggered."

Thanks, CP. This is the answer that I have been looking for.  I think the door that LE was kicking down may have been the outside door that accesses the hallway that leads to interior individual apartment doors.  I don't think they ever attempted to kick down the door to JH's actual apartment #10. Does this sound correct?

Freckles wrote:I hold a fewview  many here would find unpopular so I am trying to quietly keep my opinions off the board. IMO, there are too many unanswered questions  and evidence  of others involved in this tragedy. Unlike Sandy Hook, I do believe this happened but I do not believe it is what we are seeing or reading.

Here are things I question from just the apartment:
1. Was the cupboard door holding the gas open or shut at time of entry? I don't know.

2. IF it took TWO days to begin to dismantle the apartment of its explosives, WHY DID THEY NOT GO OFF?  AFAIK, all of the devices would go off only if triggered. JH specifically said this after arrest (see quote from Officer Blue in above posts), and the evidence found at his apartment indicated such (trip wire, launch device, remote controls).  

3. It appears from  the reports all the windows to the apartment were broken prior to entry or at time of entry. All but the bathroom window! That window was glazed and they could not see in. Why would they not have broken that window as well?  They did break the bathroom window.  See trial video, Day 9 Part 3, at 36 minutes in.

4. Trip wire: Why did the robot not set off this "invisible" fishing line?  As I said in a post above, the responders were aware there was a trip wire, as JH had already told them there was one.  They didn't know if opening the door would trigger it, which is why they sent the robot instead of a bomb tech.  A bomb tech did testify (yesterday?  Sorry, I don't have a reference for this; just my memory) that at one point, they thought the robot might have gotten caught on the trip wire, so he was sent to the doorway to see if that was the case, which it wasn't.  At that point, they had "eyes on" to know exactly where the trip wire was, and knew not to advance the robot to the point of pushing against it.

5. Answers are pat and rehearsed with a huge "paper" trail. Yet, despite being rehearsed, JH counters his statements with vague answers. He has a very clear mind as to where what was placed and the desired effect but then has flimsy responses when questioned on those details.  I'm not sure what you are referring to here:  what answers were rehearsed?; how flimsy JH's responses were after his arrest?   If so, it's most likely because he was on pain killers at the time, per this article  (http://www.abc15.com/news/national/james-holmes-aurora-shooting-suspect-not-cooperating-with-investigators):  

"SAN DIEGO - First responders to the Aurora theater shooting at first thought the shooter was a fellow officer, and the shooter had taken 100mg of Vicodin about two and half hours before the shooting, according to information from sources."

6. Do we yet understand WHY this person was involved in this tragedy?  If you mean why did JH do this, we don't know for sure.  We haven't heard the defense's side yet (not that whatever they say would be believable...just sayin').  We don't know for sure why Jodi killed Travis, but we surmise it was out of rage for being rejected.  IMO, this may have been a similar situation.  

At the theater:
1. Why was AH found slumped over the wheel of the vehicle?
Logic would have prescribed he flee from the incident and not just sit there patiently waiting for an arrest.
Do you mean JH?  He was NOT found slumped over the wheel.  He was standing outside his car, with the car door open, with his hands on the roof. Per this article (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/08/james-holmes-aurora-hearing/1816875/):  

"Aurora police officer Jason Oviatt arrested Holmes a few minutes later, after finding him outside, standing with his hands on top of his car. Oviatt said Holmes was "completely compliant" when told to surrender. Oviatt, though, said that when he first spotted Holmes, he thought he was a fellow officer because he was dressed in full body armor and wore a gas mask and helmet.

"He was just standing there not doing anything, not urgent about anything," Oviatt testified.

My guess is, as One Wonders stated on a previous page, he probably was too drugged on pain killers, and that, combined with it being a sweltering hot night (according to some witnesses) and him dressed in all that body armor, his reaction time was significantly slowed down.  

We also don't know if he ever intended to get away.  As previously discussed on this thread, he didn't have much cash on him, had rigged his apartment to blow up all his belongings, apparently had no suitcases with him, and had made at least one previous statement asking if a potential date would visit him in prison, so maybe he fully expected to get arrested and therefore never attempted to flee.

I personally don't think logic ever comes into play in any of these cases we have followed, as far as expecting a murderer to act and/or think logically.  I think that's why we all have such a struggle understanding how any of these people can act the way they do.

2. IF he was truly despondent, why did he not kill himself or resist the officers so they would kill him?  We don't know that he was despondent, any more than Jodi was for Travis rejecting her.  I don't think he was thinking that HE was the problem (meaning, "I'm a failure; I may as well kill myself"). I think it was more him wanting revenge for being rejected by others.  I think he saw THEM as the problem. Of course this is all speculation on my part.  Or, as Mylife had stated earlier, maybe he just wanted to be infamous, since he certainly wasn't going to be famous as a neuroscientist.  As I previously commented, he certainly didn't seem to want to die at the hands of police, or else why wear all the body armor?

3. Like Sandy Hook, there happened to be drills taking place that very week and officers responded with comments relating to the fact and asking (as in Sandy Hook) If this was a drill?  Are you asking why none of the responders asked if this was a drill?  Many officers/detectives/first responders testified that they could tell by the raised, intense voices on the radio and the amount of radio traffic that this was a very serious, real situation.

Outside the box:
Bear in mind the mother of JH was unbelieving her son was involved in this. As a mother and a member of the psychology field, would she not have been aware of her own son's mental condition?  What mother would believe their child would be capable of something so horrendous?

IF he did/does have a mental illness, sometimes, those closest to a situation can't see the forest for the trees.  They believe what they want to believe, and may not see the reality for what it is.  IF he didn't have a mental illness, there was nothing to observe, other than anti-social behavior.  We don't know enough yet to know if his mental illness is real or just a defense to escape the death penalty.

His major was neuro psychology. Of course he had knowledge of how the brain functioned. IMO, he was NOT researching some illness he may/may not have had. IF he had a mental condition prior to the incident, would he not have turned to the parents for guidance and assistance? They were a close family.  

The father was to testify before Congress a few days after the shootings re the US/US companies involved in LIBOR (England) rigging of interest rates and corporate loans (rigged offers and credit scores involving higher interest rates to large corporations) and it looked to be very damning. Cronyism and favoritism were evident.  

(Sandy Hook: Ryan Lanza's father (and perhaps mother) worked for a large company that also did international business. The father was to testify before Congress re LIBOR irregularities, as well.)

AFAIK, there has been no evidence to support this as true (this was originally reported on a blog and has never been confirmed by MSM, per this article:  http://www.naturalnews.com/036703_James_Holmes_photos_identity.html)

See also:  http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/sandyhook.asp#libor, which states this rumor is totally false:  

However, as noted at TPM, neither of the companies these men reportedly work for (G.E. and FICO) has any obvious connection to the LIBOR scandal, the Senate Banking Committee currently has no hearings scheduled on that issue, and neither man was ever considered as a potential witness in such an investigation:

Like FICO, GE has no obvious connection to the investigation, which has roped in various other financial institutions. And once again, there is no "witness list" that includes Lanza because there isn't even a hearing on the issue.

"This rumor is 100% false," a Senate Banking Committee aide [said] by email. "The Senate Banking Committee does not have any LIBOR hearings currently scheduled, and has never considered either of these men as potential witnesses."

I miss the contributions Va Hall added with her huge scientific background.  
Hope she is safe and well with all this nasty weather.  Me, too!

Freckles wrote:

Mylife101 wrote:"And:  "Aaron Blue, a fellow officer, testified that he took out a knife and cut away Holmes' protective gear to search for other weapons. Blue said he asked Holmes whether he had any explosives, and Holmes told him that he had improvised devices at his apartment that would go off if they were triggered."

Thanks, CP. This is the answer that I have been looking for.  I think the door that LE was kicking down may have been the outside door that accesses the hallway that leads to interior individual apartment doors.  I don't think they ever attempted to kick down the door to JH's actual apartment #10. Does this sound correct?

Why on earth would anyone trust a mass killer?
Would you believe this person bent on destroying at random so many innocent people would be honest re ANY explosive devices on his body or within his presence? This is illogical!!

If you are jarring or kicking an enclosed apartment door, would you not  be fearful of setting off some of the explosives or disrupting gas patterns so as to  trigger a chain reaction of explosions inside the apartment? Too much Keystone Cops being played out... With this much varied explosive capability any air movement at all could have blown everything~ and surely they were aware of this! Makes no sense the actions the LE took...

It appears to me the officers already knew the answers to the questions they were asking.... and that bothers me.

Mylife101 wrote:^^^ CP wrote: "I would say they didn't necessarily trust him, but as standard operating procedure,  ANY statement they get from ANYONE indicating possible danger to others must be investigated.  And apparently everything he told them turned out to be true.  Although most killers we've seen have lied about many things, JH seems to be the exception." (BBM)

JH's apparent honesty about this likely source of additional carnage is exactly why I have been so curious to learn how LE originally became aware of the explosives in JH's apt.  I have learned (thank you, CP) that LE was alerted to the explosives by JH, himself, telling Officer Blue at the time of arrest.  I am compelled to wonder if JH's admission could provide insight into the state of his mind when he was being arrested.  You know, that pesky little knowing the difference between right and wrong thingy.

So, why go to sooo much trouble to rig such an elaborate explosive booby-trap just to turn around and tell LE about it?  Why not let that part of his grand plan play out so that he could later marvel at his sick genius once the deaths and destruction were complete?  I can think of several reasons why JH might have fessed up right away and I'm sure the rest of you can think of several more.  Perhaps, it is as simple as the pain meds he took impaired his judgment of what to admit or not admit.  I think this is probably the most likely reason.  However, if we were to give JH any little, tiny benefit of the doubt here it may be that JH had just learned the hard way that the real act of shooting at and killing terrified humans was bloody, gruesome, depraved and a far cry from the videogame or movie-like thrill ride that he had anticipated.  Is it possible that he was just standing there with his hands on top of his car, feeling sick to his stomach, while having an "OMG, WTF did I just do" moment?  Maybe, at that moment JH decided that "enough is enough" and just came clean with Officer Blue.  Of course, it was probably just the Vicodin talking.

It would be nice to think that there is something more to JH than just a purely, evil monster. But, probably not...

Freckles wrote:CP,

I have read your responses and find some of your comments to be helpful while other comments  leave me pondering... Wanted you to know I am not ignoring you but thinking of what you wrote.


I appreciate the time you spent responding to my statements. Thanks!

With each of these cases, I spend a lot of time evaluating the evidence presented.
I even discuss cases with family and friends to see what they think...(I try to get them to come to RC and just READ!Sent out the link to many people....)
I try hard to get ALL the pieces to fit in and sometimes it just doesn't work. Refreshing to have someone else cross check the info....

CuriousPortlander wrote:
Mylife said:  "So, why go to sooo much trouble to rig such an elaborate explosive booby-trap just to turn around and tell LE about it?"

I was wondering the same thing.  The only thing that makes sense to me is he said he did it to divert the police's attention to his apartment and away from the movie theater.  I've never been sure if this was so he had time to get away or so that they couldn't rescue more people (i.e., more fatalities).

If that was truly his reason for rigging the apartment, then it was all for naught, as the police showed up so quickly at the theater (both to arrest him and prevent him from getting away, and to save as many lives as possible).

It sure was a lot of research, planning, cost, and arranging for no reason.  Doesn't make a lot of sense, but then neither does shooting a theater full of strangers.