Kyron Horman's Mom Plans To File CIVIL SUIT AGAINST TERRI HORMAN!

Okay...something interesting in today's news - but only found it on a video - go to link and scroll down to video ("one" of several videos on the left side of the screen) - it's about Sauvie Island:

http://www.koinlocal6.com/default.aspx

1st-time fisherman reports scalp, human hair at end of line
June 11, 2012 9:01 a.m. EDT (0:49)

It will be interesting to see if this turns up anything. Blink said there is a federal fugitive in the area who hasn't been seen since his dog was found injured in his vehicle which appeared to have been in an accident.

Boy fishing near Sauvie Island snags what could be human hair

6/11/12



PORTLAND, Ore. -- Authorities are investigating the report of possible human remains found in the waters off Sauvie Island.

Columbia County deputies received a call from a fisherman Sunday afternoon, with a report that he may have discovered human hair on the end of his line.

Read more: http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Possible-Sauvie-Island-remains-investigated/EP5UAQZ-RUiowGtN2ckDRQ.cspx

I have been reading different opinions on different blogs about the Civil Suit Desiree has brought against Terri, I always try to remain open to other possibilities & consider everything. The problem in this case is as has always been imo, there are too many variables, little known factual evidence, & that most of what we know has been gleaned from Kaine or Desiree during interviews, second hand information, though I believe what they have shared.

At issue:

The lawsuit argues that Terri Horman "intentionally interfered" with Young's parental rights, and intentionally inflicted severe emotional distress on her. Young shared joint legal custody of Kyron after her divorce from Kaine Horman in 2003.

Desiree too alleges that TMH was the last have Kyron..

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/kyron_hormans_mother_seeking_t.html

imo, I don't think Desiree can prove this as a fact because other's saw Kyron without Terri. No one saw Kyron leave Skyline w/TMH or anybody else. I do believe Kyron did leave w/TMH but there is no evidence to support it, just speculation.

BUT! There are some that believe Desiree's case may be productive, that because Terri said "she waved at Kyron as he headed toward his class" makes TMH responsible for Kyron's welfare & the last to see Kyron.

At issue: The time Kyron was last seen at school by other's & what time TMH said she waved goodbye to Kyron.

Does anyone have any thoughts about how TMH could have done this, left Skyline w/Kyron without anyone seeing them?

Puzzler wrote:Okay...something interesting in today's news - but only found it on a video - go to link and scroll down to video ("one" of several videos on the left side of the screen) - it's about Sauvie Island:

http://www.koinlocal6.com/default.aspx

1st-time fisherman reports scalp, human hair at end of line
June 11, 2012 9:01 a.m. EDT (0:49)

You know, Puzzler, I had the same thought when I first saw this article on KGW this morning (http://www.kgw.com/news/Did-Columbia-fisherman-reel-in-human-hair-158462685.html) until I read the following snipped from it:

"There were about 10 strands of light-brown hair, about five inches long, according to one of the fishermen, Steve Klinger."

I wouldn't describe Kyron as having light-brown hair, and his hair wasn't that long.

art tart wrote:I have been reading different opinions on different blogs about the Civil Suit Desiree has brought against Terri, I always try to remain open to other possibilities & consider everything. The problem in this case is as has always been imo, there are too many variables, little known factual evidence, & that most of what we know has been gleaned from Kaine or Desiree during interviews, second hand information, though I believe what they have shared.

At issue:

The lawsuit argues that Terri Horman "intentionally interfered" with Young's parental rights, and intentionally inflicted severe emotional distress on her. Young shared joint legal custody of Kyron after her divorce from Kaine Horman in 2003.

Desiree too alleges that TMH was the last have Kyron..

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/kyron_hormans_mother_seeking_t.html

imo, I don't think Desiree can prove this as a fact because other's saw Kyron without Terri. No one saw Kyron leave Skyline w/TMH or anybody else. I do believe Kyron did leave w/TMH but there is no evidence to support it, just speculation.

BUT! There are some that believe Desiree's case may be productive, that because Terri said "she waved at Kyron as he headed toward his class" makes TMH responsible for Kyron's welfare & the last to see Kyron.

At issue: The time Kyron was last seen at school by other's & what time TMH said she waved goodbye to Kyron.

Does anyone have any thoughts about how TMH could have done this, left Skyline w/Kyron without anyone seeing them?

Art Tart, interesting points. As we've already mentioned, early on, they thought someone else had seen K at school, but the Sheriff's department later indicated that wasn't the case. I think they know she was the last one to see him (and every article I've pulled up from back then has said so).

Honestly, we have no idea what evidence they have against TH, and why DY and her attorney think they can get somewhere with this lawsuit. Maybe they have enough to prove that TH left with K, but not enough to know what she ultimately did with him.

Interesting that some think that TH is responsible because she waved goodbye. If, hypothetically speaking, TH had nothing to do with K's disappearance, wouldn't the school technically be responsible, as he disappeared from school grounds, theoretically after TH dropped him off?

That being said, and believing that TH did have something to do with his disappearance, I think she either did what you suggested earlier, which is tell K to sneak out to play hooky, or she told him he had a doctor's appointment and told him to meet her out front.

Shortly after he disappeared, the Sheriff's office was showing a white pickup truck in front of the school on a small dirt road used by the maintenance people, below a slight hill which couldn't be seen from the school. See photo below (taken from http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html)



My guess is she parked there.

If she did indeed take K, I can only think of two ways she could have gotten him to not be seen in her truck: either convincing him that they were playing hooky, so she told him to "hide"; or she drugged him or injured him to cause him to not be sitting upright and therefore not visible (I personally think this was too risky to attempt there, but who knows!).

The only other possibility I can think of is if someone was helping TH, maybe he got into a different vehicle and that's why he wasn't seen in her truck (as far as we know). We know DDS disappeared that day, but not that early (she was apparently still at her landscaping job and didn't disappear until somewhere around 11:30), and she left her car behind anyway. Unless there was someone else helping at the school, those are the only options I can think of.

Just something to think about:

Part One:

JonBenet Ramsey and Kyron Horman / The Mysteries / Any Similarities?

http://trueattrue.blogspot.com/2012/06/jonbenet-ramsey-and-kyron-horman.html

Part 2:
http://trueattrue.blogspot.com/

Although the opinion of Truenelson, he is retired FBI & does have some good ideas & theories to consider.

New age progression photo of Kyron without glasses has been released:

http://www.kptv.com/story/18788820/another-possible-look-at-kyron-horman

CuriousPortlnder shared: (kindly sniped for space)

Honestly, we have no idea what evidence they have against TH, and why DY and her attorney think they can get somewhere with this lawsuit. Maybe they have enough to prove that TH left with K, but not enough to know what she ultimately did with him.

Curious Portlander, imo, LE assumes that Kyron left w/TMH but they have no witnesses to confirm the fact, if they could confirm this one important fact, imo, TMH could have been charged. If they could prove this one fact, that could prove Kyron has never been seen alive again by anyone except Terri, most of us assume this has happened.

It goes back to the ole saying, "it's not what you know, it's what you can prove in a court of law," the burden is always on the State/Prosecutor's. I think it is very plausible that TMH parked her truck as you have shown in the photo, there has been a lot of speculation about it, it certainly is plausible. It seems plausible too imo that TMH may have had some help, perhaps by DeDe at some point. It's terribly sad to think that TMH probably tricked Kyron by promising him a day of fun if he could just sneak out without being seen & they would have a day of fun.

Several legal analyst & some commenter's have said that "Desiree would get further as far as damages by suing Skyline." Of course most of us speculate this isn't about money, TMH will have no money for Desiree. The problem is, the school system is responsible for children once they arrive at school. (I work in the school system,) Things were abnormal that day, TMH knew this & probably took full advantage of the confusion & even considered this as I do feel it was premeditated, lack of normal school rules, parent's/families welcomed on campus to view the science fair, but this puts the burden of Kyron's safety on the school IF there is not an eye witness seeing Kyron leave.

art tart wrote:

CuriousPortlnder shared: (kindly sniped for space)

Honestly, we have no idea what evidence they have against TH, and why DY and her attorney think they can get somewhere with this lawsuit. Maybe they have enough to prove that TH left with K, but not enough to know what she ultimately did with him.

Curious Portlander, imo, LE assumes that Kyron left w/TMH but they have no witnesses to confirm the fact, if they could confirm this one important fact, imo, TMH could have been charged. If they could prove this one fact, that could prove Kyron has never been seen alive again by anyone except Terri, most of us assume this has happened.

Charged her with what? Kidnapping?

art tart wrote:Several legal analyst & some commenter's have said that "Desiree would get further as far as damages by suing Skyline." Of course most of us speculate this isn't about money, TMH will have no money for Desiree. The problem is, the school system is responsible for children once they arrive at school. (I work in the school system,) Things were abnormal that day, TMH knew this & probably took full advantage of the confusion & even considered this as I do feel it was premeditated, lack of normal school rules, parent's/families welcomed on campus to view the science fair, but this puts the burden of Kyron's safety on the school IF there is not an eye witness seeing Kyron leave.

I totally agree about the premeditation and taking advantage of the situation that day. I believed that as soon as I heard that she took the truck that day, saying she needed it to bring the science project home, even though she didn't bring it home (and even though she had originally brought the project to the school in her car). That clinched it for me.

CuriousPortlander shared:

I totally agree about the premeditation and taking advantage of the situation that day. I believed that as soon as I heard that she took the truck that day, saying she needed it to bring the science project home, even though she didn't bring it home (and even though she had originally brought the project to the school in her car). That clinched it for me..

CuriousPortlander, a lot of Kyron's case was going on during KC's case. I bet Terri learned alot about what not to do from KC as far as dumping remains, computer searches that come back to bite you in the butt, DNA/forensics, decomposition.

It suprises me that she didn't put more on the computer as I have seen some brillant people on 48 hours/Dateline think they have erased all the memory in their Computer's, but as we know from observing these cases, you can't totally erase the memory of a computer, I guess TMH must have known that too.

It seems TMH spent a lot of time on the computer playing games & emailing, we know some of the hateful emails but it seems thats about it. imo, if there had been more, such as searches as to where to dump remains, manner of death, poisons, it seems it might have even made the case against TMH for trying to have Kaine murdered validated.

I guess that case has just fizzeled out, I guess nothing is ever going to come of it. I guess the person TMH approached may have an arguable criminal past for Houze to attack & LE maybe decided not to pursue it, I can't imagine any other reason for dropping the case.

Always figured Terri lured Kyron out of school with the promise that she knew where he could capture a red eyed tree frog to bring back to the exhibit he had created.

Curious Portlander:
Could she have parked there because the parking at the school was full due to the sci fair?

art tart wrote:
(snipped for space)

I guess that case has just fizzeled out, I guess nothing is ever going to come of it. I guess the person TMH approached may have an arguable criminal past for Houze to attack & LE maybe decided not to pursue it, I can't imagine any other reason for dropping the case.

Why do you think the case has been dropped? Just because there haven't been charges filed doesn't mean the case has gone cold (at least not yet). There's still a full-time investigator on it, so I'm confused by your comment. I admit I never thought it would go on this long, but I also had heard a while back that they had a lot of technical data to work through (I remember something like 300+ SETS of technical data). That's a lot for one person to deal with.

I guess I'm having a hard time believing that this will fizzle out, maybe because it hits so close to home. I just can't give up hope yet.

Freckles wrote:Curious Portlander:
Could she have parked there because the parking at the school was full due to the sci fair?

I suppose so, but I doubt it. Here's an aerial view of the school (http://www.kptv.com/story/14795992/skyline-elementary-gearing-up-for-school-year-8-24-2010), and it does look like the lot is fairly small. I'm pretty sure that the access road is on the left side of the photo, next to the main road (just to the right of where there appears to be a while vehicle on the side of the road right near the trees). I matched up the speed limit sign and the school's sign with the closeup shot I posted earlier above.

Here's what the original article said about the maintenance man that day: (http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html)

"Stensen said he used the access road to get his truck and mowing equipment up to the soccer field like he always does.

He said he cut the grass on the soccer field between 7:45 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. the morning of June 4 and never saw the Hormans’ truck on the road.

Based on the investigators’ timeline, and if Stensen’s times are accurate, the window for the white truck to be on the access road narrows to the 15 minutes between 8:30 a.m. and 8:45 a.m."

So based on that, it doesn't appear that she was parked there when they first got to the school that morning, but rather pulled around during the 15-minute window of opportunity. At least that's my take on it.

[quote="CuriousPortlander"]

art tart wrote:
(snipped for space)

I guess that case has just fizzeled out, I guess nothing is ever going to come of it. I guess the person TMH approached may have an arguable criminal past for Houze to attack & LE maybe decided not to pursue it, I can't imagine any other reason for dropping the case.

CuriousPortlander said:
Why do you think the case has been dropped? Just because there haven't been charges filed doesn't mean the case has gone cold (at least not yet). There's still a full-time investigator on it, so I'm confused by your comment. I admit I never thought it would go on this long, but I also had heard a while back that they had a lot of technical data to work through (I remember something like 300+ SETS of technical data). That's a lot for one person to deal with. I guess I'm having a hard time believing that this will fizzle out, maybe because it hits so close to home. I just can't give up hope yet.

CuriousPortlander, I don't think the case about the disappearance of Kyron is going to fizzle out, but apparently, any criminal proceedings about the "hitman" Terri approached to kill Kaine has imo for many reasons, that is the case I was referring to. It is a bit confusing as there are 4 issues in the case.

There are 4 possible proceedings in this case:

1. The divorce proceedings which are ongoing, but they are proceeding.
2. Terri's involvement in Kyron's disappearance & probable murder.
3. The Civil Suit recently filed
4. The accusation that Terri approached the hitman to murder Kaine. (this is the case that I think may fizzle)

The Civil Suit & the Divorce proceedings are currently in the Court system & moving forward slowly. For there to be criminal charges against Terri, evidence is going to have to be produced to make it possible, I pray there is eventually & TMH is charged in Kyron's disappearance/death, but thus far, that case has stalled.

The "hitman" charges is the case I think may fizzle. why? If LE had a credible witness, there is absolutely no reason Terri hasn't been arrested a year & a half ago for a "murder for hire," thus far, she hasn't. This case stands alone, it is seperate from the divorce, Kyron's disappearance, & the Civil Suit.

I speculate: IF the accuser has a criminal past or served jail time, he may not be a good witness for the State, too, it would depend on the kind of criminal charges he might have such as fraud, theft, lying under oath, drug possession or intent to sell. Any of those on the record of the accuser in the "hitman" case, make the accuser a miserable witness for the State, Houze would shred his credibility. imo, that's why there has been no charges. Terri has no criminal record & sadly her word may hold more weight than the accuser.

Remember the failed attempt of LE to have the hitman approach Terri to try to get her to "admit to approaching him in the murder for hire?" It failed miserably, TMH knew it was a setup, if LE had enough evidence, they wouldn't have tried to garner more evidence so they could prosecute, obviously, they can't trust the information the Hitman gave them to start with, for some reason, his word against TMH's is something they haven't gambled on. imo, this case has already fizzled out, there are no charges, LE couldn't get more evidence & the case has never gone anywhere. Of course, things could change but it seems unlikely.

It would be far more advantageous for LE to have TMH locked up on murder for hire charges making her life miserable & a solid case would carry jail time for TMH. Apparently, they don't have enough evidence to even charge her for that crime.

IMO - if authorities had any credible evidence against TMH in the "MFH" case, she would have been arrested long ago.

After 42 agencies, an investigative grand jury, several FBI specialists, and hired specialists in computer and phone records, there still has not been an arrest in Kyron's case.

We heard from Sheriff Staton that they have no evidence of Kyron...nothing...not if he's alive, not if he's dead, nothing.

IMO, the data research - including phone calls, computer, etc. would have been completed on TMH first and by those specialists that were hired by the County and the FBI specialists that helped out. I'm thinking that Terri's "stuff" would have been checked first....what is left to be checked is most likely long ago information that trails out to others and then others. I have to believe that MCSD would use the specialists on the folks the authorities were most interested in (not just Terri) and more recent timing, too.

At this point, it seems likely that nothing is going to happen in this case "unless" Kyron shows up or until he is found. As far as I know, there haven't been any searches for Kyron in many months.

The way I understood it was that an investigator has been assigned to Kyron's case and that if they had any leads, etc. would be available to work full-time on the case. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that investigator was to be on the case - only if leads turn up. I don't recall who was going to be working on the data that wasn't able to be checked on by the time the "hired" specialists and the FBI specialists left the case.

Puzzler shared:

IMO - if authorities had any credible evidence against TMH in the "MFH" case, she would have been arrested long ago.

After 42 agencies, an investigative grand jury, several FBI specialists, and hired specialists in computer and phone records, there still has not been an arrest in Kyron's case.

IMO, the data research - including phone calls, computer, etc. would have been completed on TMH first and by those specialists that were hired by the County and the FBI specialists that helped out. I'm thinking that Terri's "stuff" would have been checked first....what is left to be checked is most likely long ago information that trails out to others and then others. I have to believe that MCSD would use the specialists on the folks the authorities were most interested in (not just Terri) and more recent timing, too.

Puzzler, I agree with your thoughts, I am so frustrated w/this case & it seems TMH has continued to be smart & take her attorney's advice to lay low & keep her mouth shut & stay out of the public eye. TMH is probably communicating w/DeDe on "bat phones" which are disposable & can't be traced.

There hasn't been any searches for Kyron since last spring I think, & I don't even think they completed the searches in all the designated areas. Though Kaine claims "he thinks Kyron is alive," imo, he says that so people will continue to look for Kyron BUT all the searches have been for recovery of remains, not for a live Kyron.

The communication data has long been over & done as well as the MFH case. Hopefully, Desiree can garner publicity about Kyron's case but I sadly feel Kyron's case is cold, LE hasn't said it BUT LE hasn't had anything to say in over a year. imo, they simply don't have evidence for charges & may or may not ever have enough evidence.

art tart wrote:
CuriousPortlander, I don't think the case about the disappearance of Kyron is going to fizzle out, but apparently, any criminal proceedings about the "hitman" Terri approached to kill Kaine has imo for many reasons, that is the case I was referring to. It is a bit confusing as there are 4 issues in the case.

Sorry, Art Tart. I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying.

Puzzler wrote:
(snipped)

IMO, the data research - including phone calls, computer, etc. would have been completed on TMH first and by those specialists that were hired by the County and the FBI specialists that helped out. I'm thinking that Terri's "stuff" would have been checked first....what is left to be checked is most likely long ago information that trails out to others and then others. I have to believe that MCSD would use the specialists on the folks the authorities were most interested in (not just Terri) and more recent timing, too.

Puzzler, you're right. I went back and looked and the issue with 300+ sets of data was reported in early 2011, so much longer ago than I remembered.

Puzzler wrote:
The way I understood it was that an investigator has been assigned to Kyron's case and that if they had any leads, etc. would be available to work full-time on the case. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that investigator was to be on the case - only if leads turn up. I don't recall who was going to be working on the data that wasn't able to be checked on by the time the "hired" specialists and the FBI specialists left the case.

I hear what you're saying, but then reading what Kaine said recently seems to contradict that (http://www.kgw.com/video/yahoo-video/Kaine-Horman-still-believes-Kyron-will-come-home-157026725.html):

“The investigation is still ongoing… doing a great job with being aggressive with different things and ideas to get this thing closed out.”

That doesn't sound to me like they're just waiting for more leads to come in, but maybe I'm reading more into than I should.

For the newbies here who would like to read other posts in this forum here you are:

http://www.realitychatter.com/f70-kyron-horman



There's a post or two that explains why some of us at RC are not convinced that Terri is to blame for Kyron's disappearence. It makes for some interesting reading, no matter your stance on Terri's guilt.

CuriousPortlander shared: (snipped)
I hear what you're saying, but then reading what Kaine said recently seems to contradict that (http://www.kgw.com/video/yahoo-video/Kaine-Horman-still-believes-Kyron-will-come-home-157026725.html):

“The investigation is still ongoing… doing a great job with being aggressive with different things and ideas to get this thing closed out.”

That doesn't sound to me like they're just waiting for more leads to come in, but maybe I'm reading more into than I should.

CP, I was a little confused by Kaine's last statements, he has to say Kyron is coming home imo as he still wants the public to look for Kyron. Desiree has admitted from evidence that she has seen & LE has shared that Kyron is deceased. Kaine isn't as forthcoming but there have been no searches for an alive Kyron in over a year & a half, the searches are for a deceased Kyron. There have been no searches even for remain recovery in a long time, maybe this time last year as far as I remember. ALL cases are ongoing it would seem until remains or the child is found.

Kaine has also said: "it may be years before this case is closed & there may or may not ever be charges." During that interview, Kaine seemed to realize that Kyron might not even be found. This case is difficult for the public because the only real information is shared by Kaine or Desiree, not LE.

I never ever thought Paige Birgefield would be recovered but she was after 4 yrs., she was found by a creek, dumped. LE has a person of interest in her case but there have been no charges, imo, not enough evidence. Kyron may eventually be found if he was dumped, but, if he is buried, he may never be found imo because only 2 people know the remain site imo, neither can be motivated to talk & I can't imagine that is ever going to change.

I'm aware there are those who feel Terri may not be, or is not responsible for Kyron's disappearance, and yet Terri did the same thing FCA and Zman did. Lie and lie and lie some more.
I never could understand why she told the story about being Desiree's friend first and helping her care for Kyron. I don't recall all of her tales, but that was one of the first ones. Up until that point I felt so sorry for her. Believed she adored Kyron, and then as time went on the truth came out that she despised him. If she isn't responsible, she sure laid herself open to be someone of suspicion by a lot of people. I don't think there is a lawyer or any other person on this earth who could prevent me from doing everything possible to clear myself of something I did not do.

The Civil Suit filed by Desiree/her attorney was filed around the 1st of 2012. Houze had 30 days to file a response, it looks like it might be 30 days from June 12th.

Court records show that a copy of the civil lawsuit that Desiree Young, Kyron's mother, filed June 1 against Terri Horman, was served on Terri Horman in Roseburg on June 12.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/kaine_hormans_restraining_orde.html

Kaine Horman's restraining order against his wife is renewed for another year

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/kaine_hormans_restraining_orde.html

I don't know if I missed it, but did anything come out about the hair found by fisherman? I know they said there was no part of scalp attached to hair.

snowbird wrote:I don't know if I missed it, but did anything come out about the hair found by fisherman? I know they said there was no part of scalp attached to hair.

As far as I know: nothing yet.

Hopefully we get some news on the Civil Suit this week. Houze had 30 days to respond, the process server has a date of 6-12-12 as being received by Terri or Houze, I don't know which one. Sometimes attorney's ask the suits be served at the Attorney's office instead of the home.

Although I fully expect Houze to file for summary judgement, the dismissal of the Civil Suit, he still has to file something, he has to respond to the suit. I know Desiree is anxiously awaiting any response, hopefully there is a Court date for the arguments to be heard by the Judge, ANYTHING as this is so slow going.

where is little Kyron? Still thought of daily, still being prayed for.

A friend asked me about little Kyron last week.
I found nothing new on the web at that time.

art tart... so glad you are on top of the dates and keeping
a close eye on this. I hope Desiree is able to win this.
Kyron deserves some kind of win, and I am certain his
parents aren't taking any action on their own behalf, but

FOR Kyron.

Marcia, Terri didn't even fight for any visititation of Kitty when Kaine got the restraining order re-newed another year. Even though she has a Master's degree, she's unemployable as she remains under the umbrella of suspicion in the disappearance of Kyron & his probable death, she's hiding in her parent's home & has for over 2 years, & there is no end in sight for her divorce/property settlement. Although Terri imo was meticulous in the planning of Kyron's disappearance, she never anticipated the unintended consequences that have directly impacted her life, she caused them all herself, she basicallyhas nothing left but her parent's & is dependant upon them supporting her. She has lost Kitty as well as her parent's have lost their grandchild & to this day, she still can't answer questions about Kyron without taking the 5th.

Of course her attorney's will get any monies in the property settlement because, imo, the never ending legal problems for Terri are going to continue to mount driving up her legal cost. She is basically involved in 3 cases, the divorce/property/custody case, the criminal case in which she has had to retain an expensive criminal defense attorney, & now this civil suit.

Meanwhile, little Kyron is still missing, I hope everyday of her life is unbearable, I hope her heart breaks when she thinks of Kitty, the child she claimed to have adored, her pain imo can't even be measured as to that of Kaine/Desiree, every day praying Kyron is found. Kaine couldn't protect Kyron from Terri, but he has been successful in protecting Kitty from being exposed to TMH, that, is a good thing, she will remain safe & in a stable home. jmo.

Art Tart, There was a time when I was separated from my children and it was hell.
My arms would ache, as if I had carried 40 pounds on each arm all day long.
Thank GOD it was only a short time and at least I could see the kids on week ends
when my parents were able to bring them, or their Dad and I could go to my parents
to sped the weekend. I had been in the hospital for weeks and then had surgery and wasn't allowed to do much but lie around for a couple months afterward. I cannot imagine not even being able to see my babies. Makes me wonder if Terri really cared about Baby Kitty.
Do we know if her parents are prevented from seeing their Grand daughter?
As far as any settlement/division of property, WHAT the hell does she even deserve
to have? If she was any kind of woman at all she would sign off on everything for
the sake of Kitty. She hasn't seen her in two years, and it sure doesn't look like she will be able to see her anytime soon, so why not be fully cooperative and give Kaine the divorce and full custody. When she proves she didn't have anything to do with Kyron's disappearance then she can get visitations and get to know her child.

Marcia, That's terrible you were unable to see your children when they were young even for a period of time, that had to be tough. Kids are so loving, I bet they wanted to crawl all over you when you saw them. TMH couldn't even get "supervised visitation of Kitty" at the expense of Kaine she requested, that too was denied.

I assume Kaine doesn't allow the grandparent's to even see Kitty, (speculatoni on my part,)there are no known photos of Kitty available on the internet that I am aware of, I guess Kaine has done this for a reason, denying TMH even any pictures to see how much Kitty has grown & changed. (speculation too on my part)

At the beginning of the case, TMH's dad said to a reporter,"there is a 50-50 chance Terri is going to be arrested," he was visibly upset when he made the statement. It's ironic imo, that both Terri's parent's were teachers devoting their lives to educating children & Terri has been called a "suspect" by Houze & is an unnamed suspect by LE. It has to have profoundly impacted their retirement, & lives, it's probably not going to change unless Terri decides to get honest & tell where Kyron is or she is arrested.

Art Tart.. I doubt my kids missed me for a second. They were with Grandpa and Grandma and happy as little clams. My kids were always as comfortable with my parents as they were with me. I never worried about them but I sure did miss them.

I can see reasons Kaine would deny visitations and even the photos to Terri. Not sure about the grand parents. Guess it would depend on their attitude.

How Terri can remain in hiding is beyond me. She no doubt THINKS like jb and fca.. THAT she is a "celebrity".
I'm all for buying an island somewhere, naming it Celebrity Island, outfitting it with all of the comforts of a concentration camp for these ppl.

I'm not seeing anything anywhere about Houze filing a response to Desiree's civil suit.

Only thing I've seen is that the civil suit has a 10/13/12 date on the court docket for a case management conf/hearing status

Puzzler, thanks for checking for us. I keep checking for something, anything, I thought Desiree would at least speak out about the reply from Houze.

Terri Horman doesn't want son testifying about Kyron's disappearance
Posted on July 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM Updated today at 5:14 PM

http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Terri-Horman-162949456.html

Snipped:

"In court papers, Terry Horman's lawyers suggest they will file a motion to prevent the 17-year-old from testifying in a civil suit. They also want the case postponed. A hearing was set on the issue for August 15."

Terri Horman hoping to keep teen son off witness stand in Kyron case

Terri Horman filed a motion Monday in hopes of preventing her 17-year-old from testifying should the plaintiff's side keep him on the witness list in the civil lawsuit.

http://www.kptv.com/story/19065368/terri-horman-hoping-to-keep-teen-son-off-witness-stand-in-kyron-case

Terri Horman wants son silenced about Kyron

by Kyle Iboshi and KGW.com Staff
NWCN.com
July 19, 2012



~Snipped~

In court papers, Terri Horman's lawyers suggest they will file a motion to prevent her own teenaged son from testifying in the civil suit. They also want the case postponed. A hearing was set on the issue for August 15.

Read more: http://www.nwcn.com/home/?fId=162949456&fPath=/news/local&fDomain=10202

Thanks everyone for sharing links, this is great news for Desiree, any movement in this case is good news.

My sister's civil suit took nearly 5 years, I live in La. & the physician's attorney got delay after delay, it was ridiculous. It doesn't seem that civil suits are a priority in many States, I hope Desiree's case moves more swiftly.

I am curious as to the delay tactics Houze is going to use. KC easily got her civil suit put on hold due to her criminal charges, but since TMH doesn't have any criminal charges pending, Houze can't use the excuses KC's civil attorney's used. TMH, imo, is just going to continue to take the 5th, on anything that is incriminating to her & therefore I don't know how much information can be gotten from her.

As far as TMH's son, imo, I don't think Kaine nor Desiree give a rat's ass if TMH doesn't want him to answer questions. Her son lived w/Kaine & TMH, of course TMH sent him to live w/his bio dad, but imo, he has a lot of information to share about the family dynamics, Terri's drunkeness, her attitude & behavior towards Kyron, etc.

I am confused under what grounds Houze doesn't think the son should have to answer questions? Because he might incriminate Terri? There is no "confidentiality" amongst family members just as we watched in KC's case. I have read a couple of times that her son is closer to 18 & if Houze is successful in getting the case delayed, he probably will turn 18, imo, not much defense because he doesn't want to testify against his mother.

Families lie under oath like we saw all the Anthony's do for KC, imo, this may well be another one of those cases if he is forced to testify.

Too, surely there have been no subpoenas issued at this point since the hearing is August 15, are they anticipating subpoenas quickly for TMH's son? If not, why would this have been included in the 2 page reply?

meanwhile, where is little Kyron?

this article is is from 2010!

This article states James, Terri's son is 16 yrs. old, so, he is going to be 18 yrs. old in 2012! Sorry Terri, no confideniality


An acquaintance of Terri Horman, who asked to remain anonymous, said Monday Terri was very upset in the weeks before Kyron vanished because she said her husband, Kaine, was making her teenage son move out of the couple’s Portland home.

Terri’s 16-year-old son did move out of the home in March.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100309979.html

damn creepy, imo, how Kyron disappeared soon after James' left the home.

Terri Horman's lawyer seeks to delay Desiree Young's civil proceeding
Published: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 3:44 PM Updated: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 6:03 PM

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/07/terri_hormans_lawyer_seeks_to.html

Snipped:

"Terri Horman's civil lawyer, Peter Bunch, said Thursday that he intends next week to file a motion to abate, or put on hold, Young's civil proceeding, using the same legal arguments he did in persuading a judge to delay divorce proceedings."

And:

"Bunch had argued before that a parallel divorce case, while the criminal investigation proceeds into Kyron's disappearance, would jeopardize Terri Horman's Fifth Amendment rights not to incriminate herself and cause a discovery nightmare with a substantial overlap of evidence between the criminal inquiry and any parallel proceeding."

art tart wrote: (snipping for space)
I am curious as to the delay tactics Houze is going to use. KC easily got her civil suit put on hold due to her criminal charges, but since TMH doesn't have any criminal charges pending, Houze can't use the excuses KC's civil attorney's used. TMH, imo, is just going to continue to take the 5th, on anything that is incriminating to her & therefore I don't know how much information can be gotten from her.

It looks like her civil attorney, Peter Bunch, is handling this one, not her criminal attorney. See my post above from oregonlive.com; using the same delay tactic as in the divorce case.

I am confused under what grounds Houze doesn't think the son should have to answer questions?

I don't get it, either. I've been looking all over to see if I can find the actual document filed, but it doesn't appear to be posted yet. I have no idea why they would have included this in their reply.

What I don't understand is - for how long can these civil cases be put on hold? I mean it's been two years, and LE is apparently no closer to filing criminal charges. What happens if they never do figure out what happened to Kyron and never press charges? Do these other cases stay on hold indefinitely? Something's got to give!

CurousPortlander, this is not suprising, same argument that KC's attorney's used & were successful, it will be interesting to see how it flies. Thanks for the links.

I had to look at some old information about James leaving the home, it seems TMH had blamed Kaine on James' leaving, but Kaine claimed to have a good relationship w/James. I definitely think if he truthfully answered Rosenthal, Desiree's attorney's questions, much could be gleaned but since Civil Suits are not a priority in some states, I am really interested in seeing how this gets handled.

art tart wrote:CurousPortlander, this is not suprising, same argument that KC's attorney's used & were successful, it will be interesting to see how it flies. Thanks for the links.

I had to look at some old information about James leaving the home, it seems TMH had blamed Kaine on James' leaving, but Kaine claimed to have a good relationship w/James. I definitely think if he truthfully answered Rosenthal, Desiree's attorney's questions, much could be gleaned but since Civil Suits are not a priority in some states, I am really interested in seeing how this gets handled.

Art Tart, now you got me curious. I also remember hearing that TH blamed Kaine for James leaving, and told other gym members that. But then I found this from Aug. 19, 2010:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html
Snipped:

"Terri Moulton Horman moved into her parents' home in Roseburg after being forced out of her home in Northwest Portland by her husband, Kaine Horman. In February, Terri sent James to Roseburg to live with his maternal grandparents.

"I was on a business trip when she made that decision," Kaine said. "She called me on my first day (in California) and said they had gotten into a fight. She couldn't handle it anymore. She was going to call his dad to talk about other options."

Kaine said he didn't want James to move out, but it wasn't his decision."

CuriousPortlander, I thought about this evening when reading about James, I wondered if James could have possibly been part of Terri's premeditation. Did Terri set Kaine up accusing him of wanting James gone by complaining to her friends at the gym, then sending James away? Could she have been making Kaine look bad to her friends & using this as an excuse to send james away? imo, it sounds like it.

imo, Terri didn't do away w/Kyron in a fit of rage, but she carefully planned his disappearance, Terri isn't an idiot, she has learned from the likes of KC. James could have certainly complicated her plans, of course he would have wanted to help any way he could, I surmise, as Kyron was his little step brother, he probably loved him & would have wanted to help find him. James probably would have been terribly upset about Kyron's disappearance, especially if he were living in the home & saw how distraught Kaine was.

I have to wonder if James being sent away was part of the bigger picture, he certainly couldn't testify to anything Terri did the day Kyron disappeared, or the day before but he can certainly testify to the family dynamics & he was in the house a week or so after Kyron disappeared.

Just speculating & trying to figure exactly what Terri doesn't want James to share. I feel sorry for James, he's been bounced around, sent to grandma's house, to his bio dad's, then back to grandmas. Terri has certainly provided an unstable life for James. James too has lost kitty & Kyron, life hasn't been emotionally easy for James it seems.

art tart wrote:CuriousPortlander, I thought about this evening when reading about James, I wondered if James could have possibly been part of Terri's premeditation. Did Terri set Kaine up accusing him of wanting James gone by complaining to her friends at the gym, then sending James away? Could she have been making Kaine look bad to her friends & using this as an excuse to send james away? imo, it sounds like it.

imo, Terri didn't do away w/Kyron in a fit of rage, but she carefully planned his disappearance, Terri isn't an idiot, she has learned from the likes of KC. James could have certainly complicated her plans, of course he would have wanted to help any way he could, I surmise, as Kyron was his little step brother, he probably loved him & would have wanted to help find him. James probably would have been terribly upset about Kyron's disappearance, especially if he were living in the home & saw how distraught Kaine was.

I have to wonder if James being sent away was part of the bigger picture, he certainly couldn't testify to anything Terri did the day Kyron disappeared, or the day before but he can certainly testify to the family dynamics & he was in the house a week or so after Kyron disappeared.

Just speculating & trying to figure exactly what Terri doesn't want James to share. I feel sorry for James, he's been bounced around, sent to grandma's house, to his bio dad's, then back to grandmas. Terri has certainly provided an unstable life for James. James too has lost kitty & Kyron, life hasn't been emotionally easy for James it seems.

You know, this is an interesting aspect of this case. It also highlights what is so rarely mentioned - the vast collateral damage that occurs when parents act negligently (at best). Poor kid - he sure deserves some peace and stability (and a decent mom wouldn't hurt, either).

It would be nice if Kaine included James in his daughter's life,
but I suppose the baby was to young to remember her older
brother. I can see how it would be difficult to include him though.
Accusations would be made that Kaine was attempting to manipulate
James. So sad that tmh had to screw up so many lives. I suppose she
is well pleased with herself.

art tart wrote:CuriousPortlander, I thought about this evening when reading about James, I wondered if James could have possibly been part of Terri's premeditation. Did Terri set Kaine up accusing him of wanting James gone by complaining to her friends at the gym, then sending James away? Could she have been making Kaine look bad to her friends & using this as an excuse to send james away? imo, it sounds like it.

imo, Terri didn't do away w/Kyron in a fit of rage, but she carefully planned his disappearance, Terri isn't an idiot, she has learned from the likes of KC. James could have certainly complicated her plans, of course he would have wanted to help any way he could, I surmise, as Kyron was his little step brother, he probably loved him & would have wanted to help find him. James probably would have been terribly upset about Kyron's disappearance, especially if he were living in the home & saw how distraught Kaine was.

I have to wonder if James being sent away was part of the bigger picture, he certainly couldn't testify to anything Terri did the day Kyron disappeared, or the day before but he can certainly testify to the family dynamics & he was in the house a week or so after Kyron disappeared.

Just speculating & trying to figure exactly what Terri doesn't want James to share. I feel sorry for James, he's been bounced around, sent to grandma's house, to his bio dad's, then back to grandmas. Terri has certainly provided an unstable life for James. James too has lost kitty & Kyron, life hasn't been emotionally easy for James it seems.

Art Tart, I think you hit the nail on the head! I was thinking exactly the same thing as I was responding earlier tonight. I think she was laying all this out long before Kyron vanished. It makes total sense!

Soprano1 wrote:

art tart wrote:CuriousPortlander, I thought about this evening when reading about James, I wondered if James could have possibly been part of Terri's premeditation. Did Terri set Kaine up accusing him of wanting James gone by complaining to her friends at the gym, then sending James away? Could she have been making Kaine look bad to her friends & using this as an excuse to send james away? imo, it sounds like it.

(snipped for space)

You know, this is an interesting aspect of this case. It also highlights what is so rarely mentioned - the vast collateral damage that occurs when parents act negligently (at best). Poor kid - he sure deserves some peace and stability (and a decent mom wouldn't hurt, either).

Hi, Soprano1! When you think about all the people impacted by this case, the collateral damage is staggering! Kyron, James, Kiara, Kaine, Desiree, Tony, other family, friends, teachers...just mind boggling that one person's selfishness can cause so much damage to so many. Heartbreaking!

Marica wrote:It would be nice if Kaine included James in his daughter's life,
but I suppose the baby was to young to remember her older
brother. I can see how it would be difficult to include him though.
Accusations would be made that Kaine was attempting to manipulate
James. So sad that tmh had to screw up so many lives. I suppose she
is well pleased with herself.

Marica, I'll bet she is pleased with herself for (allegedly) pulling off what appears to be an unsolvable crime. But I'll bet she didn't count on everything she'd lose in the process (boo hoo). I don't see how she can live with herself, but then again I suppose it's a good thing that I don't understand the minds of sociopaths.