George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Freckles wrote:

back2back19 wrote:I really hate O'Mara. I really hate GZ.

And I really think GZ is going to get off. :/

I think MOM is a weasel. He kept trying the case in court. He kept trying to make it appear the judge had a personal interest in GZ, especially GZ not trusting of the system. (Huh? GZ is studying criminal justice, his father was a magistrate, and GZ doesn't trust the system Well, he best get over it!) Not the duty of the court to help GZ LIKE the system.

GZ is a user of people. His father, his friends (who supposedly took a year for him) and now he is going for using the courts. Recall his posting on his social network page where he BRAGGED about getting TWO felonies reduced to misdemeanors. So he wants a SANCTIONED murder now.

If my child was screaming, it would not matter how crowded the area was, I would recognize his/her voice. Would not need to listen twice. And I would not have to BLINK my eyes when I said, "That's my child's voice."

Chickenbutt wrote:MOM is doing a PC...he just said he is prepared to use all the money for bond.

Chickenbutt wrote:Mercy, I agree. In the ER we also did not shave heads unless it was absolutley necessary. If GZ had come in and no sutures were done, we would have used 4x4's and gauze wrapped around his head. Bandaids just won't stick with any length of hair.

Chickenbutt wrote:Tess, I thought the bandaids on his head looked like finger bandages.

alabama52 wrote:

alabama52 wrote:IS seems to think judge will not rule today.

Vinnie said that but now the live stream says it is just a recess

Chickenbutt wrote:lol...no actually I don't Porky

Chickenbutt wrote:Tess, I thought the bandaids on his head looked like finger bandages.

Chickenbutt wrote:Just being honest Porky.....I could tell you a mistruth if you'd like.

No Porky, I just love hearing people speak in the third person. Makes me tingly all over.

Happy now?

Chickenbutt wrote:Report by MISS Fulgate (sp)...is she an MD? A nurse practioner? A physician assistant? Certainly not a doc as they would call her Doctor.

Chickenbutt wrote:Didn't I read somewhere that the medical report has some legal wording it it about (IIRC) "shot someone is self defense" of something along those lines?

Porky wrote:Ok here is Porkies take on today. When I read the order form the bond revocation the one thing that really stood out to me was the comment by the Judge that the evidence against GZ is strong. This entire mini trial was about that statement and here is why Porky thinks so.

On a SYG or self defense claim, a defense would be nearly mortally would if
1. The client has a credibility issue, and
2. The Judge feels that the evidence in strong and should be left to a trier of fact

Omara is clearly very concerned. Yes he was very organized and skillful and remarkably adept at presenting the high points. But at the end of the day, he did little to defeat points 1 and 2.

The Pros did miss a golden opportunity to slam Cindy II, ala Pappa Zimmerman. Porky would have asked him the specific occasions and date where he heard GZ scream like that. Very easy way to catch him in his lie.

Don't you like when people speak in 3rd person?

alabama52 wrote:Did George ever finish paying his last bondsman?

Chickenbutt wrote:Do you have that somewhere Porky? I would like to re-read it. Ellejay?

Porky wrote:

Chickenbutt wrote:Didn't I read somewhere that the medical report has some legal wording it it about (IIRC) "shot someone is self defense" of something along those lines?

Yes

CherokeeNative wrote:I've been busy today - here's another good read regarding GZ's injuries:

http://thisruthlessworld.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/do-medical-records-exonerate-george-zimmerman-not-so-fast/

Calypso wrote:Regardless of the circumstances on HOW you got to into this position, if someone bigger than you punched you in the face, was on top of you, slamming your head into the ground putting their hands on your face covering your nose and mouth, and trying to get your gun, in a nano second- you would respond and anyone that says no they wouldn't and took that ass beating, isn't being honest.

I'm not arguing GZ followed this guy when the dispatch told him not to- What I'm arguing is once the situation changed and became a physical altercation and TM seemed to be getting the best of GZ, and GZ had a way to neutralize TM, I don't doubt many/most of us in that split second would have used deadly force.

This is a NO WIN situation.

Gizmo711 wrote:

Calypso wrote:Regardless of the circumstances on HOW you got to into this position, if someone bigger than you punched you in the face, was on top of you, slamming your head into the ground putting their hands on your face covering your nose and mouth, and trying to get your gun, in a nano second- you would respond and anyone that says no they wouldn't and took that ass beating, isn't being honest.

I'm not arguing GZ followed this guy when the dispatch told him not to- What I'm arguing is once the situation changed and became a physical altercation and TM seemed to be getting the best of GZ, and GZ had a way to neutralize TM, I don't doubt many/most of us in that split second would have used deadly force.

This is a NO WIN situation.

My bold...But that is what the entire case is about, how they both got into this position. Trayvon was minding his business and Zimmermans was also minding Trayvons business. Zimmerman persued Trayvon, Zimmerman got out of his car. I don't know of many people that would have done what Zimmerman did and NOT expect to get a punch in the nose. As the old saying goes "don't start something you can't finish", well obviously Zimmerman KNEW he could finish it because he was armed with a 9mm. Therefore what ever Trayvon did to Zimmerman it was in self defense.

Chickenbutt wrote:No CN...that is not it. Don't worry about it.

KZ, I realize what you are saying about HPI, but my comment was about what I remembered reading, the "in self defense" comment by GZ.
I would expect a patient to say, "I got the crap beat out of me and then I shot the guy"
I would not expect someone to say "I got the crap beat out of me and then I shot the guy IN SELF DEFENSE"
I guess it could happen, but it just seems odd to me.

It will be interesting to see the actual report.

Chickenbutt wrote:Do you have that somewhere Porky? I would like to re-read it. Ellejay?

CherokeeNative wrote:Here are the summaries of the witnesses statements taken from this link: http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/people/witnesses/

Witness 1
She says she was in the kitchen cooking, door closed and window half open. She heard a noise that sounded like a kid making a weird noise. She looked out and couldn’t see anything. She went to the door and saw figures and arms and couldn’t make out anything more. She saw her neighbor come out at the same time, who she says told the figures that he was going to call 911. She went back to turn the stove off, and she heard the shot go off. She said she went upstairs and told her sister that she thought someone out there was shot. She also mentions her niece who was in the home and didn’t see anything. She said they saw police a while later. She mentions that she was asked if she knew George, and she says she talked to him a couple of times. That interviewer at that time (not the one on tape) asked her if she thought Zimmerman would have done this, and she said “no.” She says he was always fine with her.… More>>>

Witness 2
Witness says she saw two guys running as she was looking out the kitchen window, but doesn’t know who was in front or behind. They were about 10 feet apart. She saw a fist fight, but doesn’t know who was hitting who. All she heard was “No, no,” and then she heard the shot. She said she is unaware of problems in neighborhood with break-ins.
In latter interviews, she reveals that she didn’t have her contacts or glasses on, and seems to be unclear on whether she actually saw two men chasing one another. In addition, she says that she heard more of the commotion than she saw.
… More>>>

Witness 3
Says she had upstairs windows open and heard someone screaming for help, but couldn’t tell who it was. She identifies the voice as a man. She peeked out of her blinds and saw a guy on top with a white t-shirt. She couldn’t make out anything other than the white top. She says she called 911 after that. She states the sound of the voice screaming sounded scared. While she was on the phone with the lady dispatcher, she heard the gun go off. She identifies the location as being behind her house. She says the only thing she saw was the white shirt–no race, no color of other clothing, nothing else, because it was too dark. She says she saw the police arrive, and they were “like 5 seconds too late.” She says she was confused, because she now knows there was, supposedly, nobody in a white shirt. She then says, “The guy in the handcuffs had on a hoodie, didn’t he?” The interviewer (male) then says, “We are only concerned with what you indicated you thought you saw that night.”… More>>>

Witness 4
Information released from neither the Florida State Attorney’s Office nor the Sanford Police Department at this time.

Witness 5
This witness is Mary Cutcher, who was home with her roommate (Witness #16 Selma Lamilla) the night of the incident. She believes that whomever she saw out there intended to kill the Trayvon Martin. She was about to take an online test and went to make coffes in the kitchen, when she heard sounds like someone in trouble or hurting. She and Selma slowly walked toward the glass door, and saw “the kid” laying on the ground.… More>>>

Witness 6
When he first walked outside, the Black guy was on top while they were wrestling. He could tell this because the guy on the bottom was a lighter color. The witness was looking out the window and yelling out the window telling them to stop. After the incident, he saw other people out there with flashlights. The guy who did the shooting said, “I shot the other guy in self defense. My gun is on the ground.”
He didn’t have his patio door open. He could only hear the helps with all doors and windows closed. He says he couldn’t tell who was yelling for help. He thought it was the person on the ground at first because his logic says that the person on the bottom would be the one yelling for help. He says he truly couldn’t tell who was yelling help. It was too dark. He didn’t see how it started or how it ended. He only saw when they were in an altercation on the ground.
… More>>>

Witness 7
Information released from neither the Florida State Attorney’s Office nor the Sanford Police Department at this time.

Witness 8
She says that Trayvon told her that a white man in a car was watching him from a car. He said that the man watching was on the phone. Trayvon said that he was going to start walking. Phone hung up and she called him back. He said the man was still watching him. He put his hoodie on because it was still raining. She told him to run to his dad’s house. He said that he would run. She heard Trayvon running and could hear the wind. Trayvon said that he lost the guy. Then, he told her the guy was coming closer to him. She heard Trayvon say “Why you following me for?” An old man said “What are you doing around here?” She called Trayvon’s name and he didn’t answer. She said someone bumped him, and she heard the phone drop. She could hear a little bit of sound. Trayvon was saying “Get off, get off.” Then, the phone hung up. She called him back two or three times. She states she has guilt about the situation.… More>>>

Witness 9
This anonymous caller to the Sanford Police Department says that she knows George Zimmerman, and he would start something that could lead to a confrontation. She claims that he is a very confrontational person. She doesn’t talk to him because of things he has done in the past, and she knows all of his family. She urges the police to check into his background and try to get people to come forward and admit the type of person George Zimmerman is. … More>>>

Witness 11
One of the 911 callers on which the screams and shot can be heard (911 Caller #2). She also gives a witness interview. During her interview, she mentions that she is a member of the Retreat at Twin Lakes Homeowner’s Association Board… More>>>

Witness 12
She heard a howling sound, then she heard “help.” She doesn’t know who was saying “help”. At first she couldn’t see anything, because it was dark. A guy was on top of another, then she heard the shot. She couldn’t see any faces or clothing. After comparing the pics on TV, she thinks it was Zimmerman who was on top because the bigger guy is the one who was on top.… More>>>

Witness 13
He said he didn’t see the actual incident. He went outside after the shooting. George Zimmerman was out of breath and “acting like he had just gotten his butt beat.” He asked Zimmerman if he needed him to call 911. He states he called Zimmerman’s wife while he was being cuffed and explained what was happening. Zimmerman blurted out, “Just tell her that I shot someone.” He says Zimmerman was very matter of fact–like it wasn’t a big deal.… More>>>

Witness 14
Austin McLendon is a 13-year-old eighth grader who was walking his dog. He is the brother of Witness #15. The witness states he saw someone lying on the ground who couldn’t get up. It looked like they had on a red shirt. He was outside while walking a dog. The person on the ground was yelling “help.” He says he only looked for a few seconds and only saw one person. He didn’t see how it happened. He didn’t see why he was yelling for help. He thought because it was wet outside that the person had fallen and broken his leg or something since it was wet outside. He only looked for a few seconds and saw only one person who was on the ground–nobody else.… More>>>

Witness 15
This is a call from a female who reports that her brother (Witness #14) ran in the house after someone was shot. The brother then reports that he saw “a man laying on the ground that needed help that was screaming.” He said he was going to help, but his dog got off the leash. He said he heard a loud sound and then the screaming stopped.… More>>>

Witness 16
She heard a kid crying (she sounds it out), and then she heard a shot, but was thinking maybe it was some kids playing. She went out to the porch. She saw a guy laying on the ground and could see another guy on top of him. She asked “what’s going on?” no answer, “what’s wrong with you, what’s going on?” The guy on top looked at her, and finally said “Call the police.” At that moment her roommate (Witness #5, Mary Cutcher) came back and told her to come inside. … More>>>

Witness 17
She said she heard some screaming outside while she an a male companion were watching TV. She heard a male definitely yelling help, but it sounded like they were running toward them yelling help. The male with her went to the patio window and opened the blinds. It was dark and he didn’t see a whole bunch. He then opened the window/door and yelled “Hey stop it” and said he was calling 911. She told him to come in and call 911. She crawled toward the stairs (she was crawling because she is on crutches). She heard the gunshot while she was crawling upstairs. She called the neighbors while calling 911, and they and they were on the phone with 911 too. The man with her said, Oh my God! Someone is lying on the grass!” Then, he told her the police were there. She says the voice calling for help was definitely male. She didn’t look out until after when they were doing CPR on Trayvon.… More>>>

Witness 18
She thought she heard loud voices outside while she was upstairs in her bedroom. She didn’t hear voices for about 10 minutes or so, and then heard them again. She couldn’t see anything at first, then saw two men on the ground and someone calling for help from her window. She remembers hearing the pop noise. She thought she heard more than one pop. She then called 911. She saw a larger man standing a couple of feet from a body. She couldn’t see any faces. She couldn’t hear what the people were yelling about. She said she saw what looked like a “larger Hispanic man” as the person who walked away from the incident.… More>>>

Witness 19
She was going to take her dog out, and she saw a guy lying on the ground moaning when she opened the door. The kid was lying on the ground. She says she saw a gentleman she’s seen before. She says she thought it was an elderly neighbor having a heart attack or something. The guy who lived there (where the body was) said he was going to call 911. She said she pulled her dog back in and put the house alarm on after hearing that her neighbor was going to call 911. She went upstairs, opened a window, she said she hear what sounded like a “pop” sound–a gunshot. She says she doesn’t remember exactly when in the sequence of events the pop sound occurred.… More>>>

Witness 20
Around 7pm, while watching TV, he heard a scuffle in the grass and he thought someone was getting jumped in the backyard. He said “they” got on the phone with 911. He went to get a knife from the kitchen and heard pops. He heard “helps” about 20 times and didn’t hear it anymore after the “pop.” They waited to hear police outside, then went outside to see what was going on… More>>>

Witness 21
Interviewer asks if the witness was aware of a homeowners meeting on 9-22-2011, specific to a neighborhood crime watch. The witness says that it was his first act as homeowner president. He said he met George Zimmerman because George was trying to get residents’ signatures to start a neighborhood watch with the Sanford Police Department. Interviewer: As a result of the meeting, what if any responsibilities were given to George? George was the committee chairman. He says George was organizing the neighborhood watch on his own. He didn’t tell the witness why he was interested in setting up a watch program. The witness emphasized that they were only supposed to watch. He said that there were no complaints about George Zimmerman. He said everyone seemed to think he was doing a good job.… More>>>

Witness 22
He knows Zimmerman as an ex-coworker. They worked together 2008/2009. Zimmerman was already employed when the witness began to work there. He says he is Middle Eastern and the work environment was unwelcoming. Zimmerman noticed that other employees didn’t like him, so Zimmerman chose him as a target of bullying to prove himself to other people to other people.
Witness stated that his mentor said that George was good at his job, and had caught on to the work quickly. As such, he told the witness to ask him or George if the witness had any questions. As a practical joke, Zimmerman made the witness perform menial tasks, then embarrassed him in front of other co-workers for complying with his instruction. He says Zimmerman referred to him as a “fucking moron,” and he did comedy skits about him on the job on multiple occasions.
Zimmerman made fun of the witness and his accent, saying lines from “Ahmed the Terrorist“. This went on for days and days. The witness submitted a letter of complaint to the company after making a verbal complaint to the manager about Zimmerman’s behavior.
The witness said that the taunting got so bad that he felt violent thoughts against Zimmerman. George Zimmerman mocked his accent and made reference to terrorism regarding his background. Zimmerman did comedy shows and jokes about Middle Easterners in reference to the witness while on the job. He constantly called the witness a moron and stupid.
The witness feels like Zimmerman was trying to fit in with the clique and targeted him for that reason. Since the witness was the “new guy,” Zimmerman found him an easy target for entertainment. The managers asked if the witness thought Zimmerman was just playing. The management had a talk with Zimmerman and it didn’t do any good.
The witness says that Zimmerman never threatened him with violence, or put his hands on the witness. It was immature behavior, with racial overtones.
The witness says that Zimmerman would have never messed with Trayvon if he was a big guy. He mentioned that their job hired a new guy who had been in the military, and George Never bothered that guy. He says that George Zimmerman was fired because he called the company hotline excessively. He had a history of filing complaints against managers and how things were run in the store. He was making these complaints to Human Resources. After Zimmerman was fired, the managers told him that HR said the guy was nothing but trouble and to get rid of him. He said that Zimmerman would be extremely professional to your face. He says that Zimmerman is a very convincing guy, and the witness said that Zimmerman’s rebuttal to the managers calling him in about the witness’ complaint made him almost doubt himself–as if to say, perhaps he had misunderstood Zimmerman.
… More>>>

Robert Zimmerman Sr. (George’s Father)
Robert Zimmerman Sr.’s stated in his interview with the FDLE that he is certain that the voice yelling for help on the 911 call is that of his son, George Zimmerman. He also discusses that the case has been hard on his family, and that they have not been able to stay at home. He also attempts to justify George’s act by saying that he wasn’t racially profiling Trayvon Martin, and that George would have done the same had the people who were accused of committing the neighborhood robberies been Asian. One of the main points that he makes is that most of what he’s heard on the media has been lies. He also recounts what injuries he claims to have seen on George Zimmerman.…

I am curious why Witnesses 4 and 7 have been withheld. Also, where the summaries mention "more", I have taken the liberty of adding the remainder of the summary so that you don't have to go look it up...so the "more" doesn't give you anything different than what is posted as far as the witness's statement is concerned.